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Dreadnought
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Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:18 am

Quote:
Muslims want Islamic cemeteries in every canton
An umbrella group for Swiss Muslims says they should be able to be buried “with dignity” and is therefore calling for Islamic cemeteries in every Swiss canton.

...

Islamic law says Muslims should not be buried with those of a different faith
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics...s_in_every_canton.html?cid=8477966


Switzerland is a tolerant country, and the idea that a certain segment of society cannot stand to mix (even in death) with the vast majority of the people living there is intolerant. If you don't want to mix with non-muslims, don't move to a non-muslim country.

Up to what point does a tolerant society tolerate intolerance?

[Edited 2010-03-14 18:23:55]
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Mir
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:23 am

Are they calling for government-sponsored Muslim cemeteries? That would be ridiculous, but if they want to be able to have a Muslim cemetery somewhere, I don't see why it should be prevented as long as they can raise the money to acquire and maintain the land. Does Switzerland have Jewish cemeteries?

-Mir
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TheCommodore
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:41 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
I don't see why it should be prevented as long as they can raise the money to acquire and maintain the land.

I do.

Surly if you elect to go live in a country then I think you should abide by the values and customs of that country, and that may mean being buried in a common cemetery where everyone also ends up, otherwise stay where you are.

Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
Does Switzerland have Jewish cemeteries?

This is another group that has been afforded to many special rights. Again why should they have a Jewish only cemetery ( if that is the case there)

If we can live together then we should be buried together, IMHO.
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Klaus
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:42 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2):
Surly if you elect to go live in a country then I think you should abide by the values and customs of that country, and that may mean being buried in a common cemetery where everyone also ends up, otherwise stay where you are.

Most cemeteries are not "common" but already confessional (explicitly christian).

As long as muslims, jews or christians acquire and maintain the lots at their own cost, I don't have a problem with it, especially since burial is usually highly connected to the respective specific rituals. Otherwise they should simply use non-confessional burial grounds with everybody else where available.
 
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:50 am

Some people just don't get it.
In death, everybody is equal, maybe people should take an example of how the US military honors its soldiers all on the same field (in this case, Arlington), with all different religions together;


[Edited 2010-03-14 19:51:33]

[Edited 2010-03-14 19:55:17]
[edit post]
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:55 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Quote:
Muslims want Islamic cemeteries in every canton
An umbrella group for Swiss Muslims says they should be able to be buried “with dignity” and is therefore calling for Islamic cemeteries in every Swiss canton.

Somehow that irks me, the buried with dignity bull. You are dead, is that dignified? Send the deceased back home and bury them with dignity there. I bet if that is proposed it will be met with acclamation in Switzerland. Of course by the undignified native Swiss only.
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Klaus
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:04 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 5):
Somehow that irks me, the buried with dignity bull. You are dead, is that dignified? Send the deceased back home and bury them with dignity there.

I see. So what would the swiss muslims have to do, then?
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:25 am

The only reason that i think of for Muslims in Switzerland are requesting there own cemeteries is that dead Muslims should be burried facing a special heading (East i think). This sometimes can not be done in other cemeteries.   
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:55 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 7):
The only reason that i think of for Muslims in Switzerland are requesting there own cemeteries is that dead Muslims should be burried facing a special heading (East i think). This sometimes can not be done in other cemeteries.

That can be managed in any cemetery I have ever visited, including at the funeral of a good friend of mine who was a Pakistani muslim buried in Switzerland.

THe problem is this:

Quote:
Farhad Afshar, president of the Coordination of Islamic Organisations in Switzerland, told the Sunday newspaper Sonntag he was preparing a legal case concerning freedom of religion.

Islamic law says Muslims should not be buried with those of a different faith – something already possible in Some Swiss cities, for example Zurich, Bern, Basel and Geneva.

Some extremist, claiming to speak for all muslims, is saying that muslims cannot be buried with infidels. If this is not true, I would hope that Switzerland's other muslims tell him publicly to go ___ himself. But somehow I don't think that will happen. I hope I'm wrong.
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TheCommodore
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:03 am

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 4):
Some people just don't get it.
In death, everybody is equal, maybe people should take an example of how the US military honors its soldiers all on the same field (in this case, Arlington), with all different religions together;

Precisely Dear Watson as Sherlock Holmes used to say

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
Some extremist, claiming to speak for all muslims, is saying that muslims cannot be buried with infidels. If this is not true, I would hope that Switzerland's other muslims tell him publicly to go ___ himself. But somehow I don't think that will happen. I hope I'm wrong.

I think you might be right, but perhaps I'm being overly pessimistic !!
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:26 am

So if I lived in, let's say Saudi Arabia, would I be allowed to build a Christian cemetery or church?
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Mir
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:44 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2):
This is another group that has been afforded to many special rights. Again why should they have a Jewish only cemetery ( if that is the case there)

If we can live together then we should be buried together, IMHO.

That's a valid question, but if there are Jewish cemeteries in Switzerland, then there's little justification for Muslims to be denied their own cemeteries, so long as they can fund them on their own. The government should not be providing them, but they shouldn't be obstructing them either.

-Mir
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TheCommodore
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:30 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
That's a valid question, but if there are Jewish cemeteries in Switzerland, then there's little justification for Muslims to be denied their own cemeteries, so long as they can fund them on their own. The government should not be providing them, but they shouldn't be obstructing them either.

Yes that's a good point.

You see when you start making exceptions for one group, then the flood gates open for all and sundry to want this and that.

Makes it very hard to have a level playing field.
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:04 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 7):
The only reason that i think of for Muslims in Switzerland are requesting there own cemeteries is that dead Muslims should be burried facing a special heading (East i think). This sometimes can not be done in other cemeteries.

its towards mecca, i believe.

this is another chapter in the saga that has been going on for decades now in europe. i'm not saying that either side is at fault, both have legitimate claims, but ultimately (in my eyes) swiss values, whatever they may be, have the upper hand. If their system of government calls for a republican style immigration/assimilation policy, then it can be argued that such cemetaries have no place in Switzerland.
 
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:58 pm

Muslims should be buried on the right side of their bodies (not on their backs) facing towards Mecca.
 
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:06 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
but if there are Jewish cemeteries in Switzerland

The answer is yes

Jewish Cemeteries in Switzerland from the International Jewish Cemetery Project http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/swiss.html
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:08 pm

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 10):
So if I lived in, let's say Saudi Arabia, would I be allowed to build a Christian cemetery or church?

Excellent point. Every time the muslims get their way in our part of the world, the same rules should apply in muslim countries for people with another religion there.

Also these kinds of problems will arise more and more often the more we let in.. I think the limit has been reached. We simply can't handle any more if the integration has to be succesful at the same time.

[Edited 2010-03-15 07:50:52]
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:23 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
I see. So what would the swiss muslims have to do, then?
Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 10):
So if I lived in, let's say Saudi Arabia, would I be allowed to build a Christian cemetery or church?

I defer to above question from Birdwatching. Exactly!
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Klaus
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:25 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 17):
I defer to above question from Birdwatching. Exactly!

Switzerland is rightly held to a far higher standard than Saudi Arabia is.

Or are you advocating that relatively enlightened western countries should sink back to the dark ages as well, just because some others are still mired in them?

My question remains standing.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:04 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 18):
Switzerland is rightly held to a far higher standard than Saudi Arabia is.

Exactly. We live in a free society (at least I used to think we did.)

There is all this talk of assimilation... what is wrong with diversity? It sounds like you all are being racist! Let them do what they want with their dead, if they were in charge and they said they'll cook everyone's dead would you just say "whatever, let them do what they want, we are assimilating," or would you say "this country Switzerland that I love and spent all my life in, I guess I have to move because I disagree with something," or would you say "surely in this democratic society they will let us honor our dead according to our religion since it's not harming anyone else."

What's the harm in letting them do this if they pay for it themselves? It sounds like yall are heading to a society where everyone is the same, how bland.
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:30 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 18):
Switzerland is rightly held to a far higher standard than Saudi Arabia is.

All the Western societies are held to a higher standard and that is our weakness that will possibly kill us. It is about time the Muslims bent, this goes far deeper than cemetaries, by the way, do we have anything to fear from Jews in Switzerland?



Or are you advocating that relatively enlightened western countries should sink back to the dark ages as well, just because some others are still mired in them?

See above. The Muslims have not changed so far, yet you advocate we always bend, not me. The dark ages are alive and well in many Muslim Societies, and we should adjust for them, naive in my opinion.

My question remains standing.

See answers above.
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Klaus
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:23 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 20):
See answers above.

You did not answer my question where swiss muslims were supposed to go "home" in your words to get buried. Switzerland is their home!

It is debatable what kinds of accomodations should or shouldn't be made by the general public on par to or beyond what other congregations get. But your demand that "they should go home" is disingenuous at best.
 
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:39 pm

I personally don't see the problem with them wanting their own cemetery. If its their belief that this is how it should be, no one should be stopping them. They are citizens of Switzerland that are as rightful as the non-Muslim Swiss to be buried in any way they please. Frankly it is a rather unreasonable request, but not a problematic one. They are offending no one, just asking for their own cemetery...
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TheCommodore
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:48 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 19):
There is all this talk of assimilation...

Dose not sound like assimilating to me if you have to bury your dead differently for the majority who live in that country!

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 19):
It sounds like you all are being racist!

Rubbish, don't start bringing up that BS. He is entitled to his opinion just as you are.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 19):
What's the harm in letting them do this if they pay for it themselves? It sounds like yall are heading to a society where everyone is the same, how bland.

How even handed where everyone would be treated the same with NO exclusive groups !
Sounds good to me.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 21):
It is debatable what kinds of accomodations should or shouldn't be made by the general public on par to or beyond what other congregations

And that's exactly what we are doing here, debating.
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Klaus
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:55 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 23):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 21):
It is debatable what kinds of accomodations should or shouldn't be made by the general public on par to or beyond what other congregations

And that's exactly what we are doing here, debating.

That aspect would not be a problem, but xenophobic demands of basically having them expelled are an entirely different matter.
 
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:04 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 23):
Dose not sound like assimilating to me if you have to bury your dead differently for the majority who live in that country

But if other religions are allowed there own cemetries then Muslims have the right to ask one for them. If you refuse that then there will be hints of racism.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 23):
How even handed where everyone would be treated the same with NO exclusive groups

But not the Jewish?? With all respect to Jewish religion why should they be different? That does not sound good to me.
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TheCommodore
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:32 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2):
This is another group that has been afforded to many special rights. Again why should they have a Jewish only cemetery ( if that is the case there)

If we can live together then we should be buried together, IMHO.
Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 25):
But not the Jewish?? With all respect to Jewish religion why should they be different? That does not sound good to me.

As I said in my previous reply, I don't believe that Jewish groups should be allowed "special" cemetery's either !

Quoting Klaus (Reply 24):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 21):
It is debatable what kinds of accomodations should or shouldn't be made by the general public on par to or beyond what other congregations

And that's exactly what we are doing here, debating.

That aspect would not be a problem, but xenophobic demands of basically having them expelled are an entirely different matter.

You see, once you afford special rights to a particular group in society you exclude others within that society and that can and almost guarantee cause problems further down the track. Who/which Government/society wants that to sort out later on.
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:37 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 26):
As I said in my previous reply, I don't believe that Jewish groups should be allowed "special" cemetery's either !

The fact is they are allowed special cemetries, so i do not see anything wrong for Muslims to be treated the same.
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:41 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 27):
The fact is they are allowed special cemetries, so i do not see anything wrong for Muslims to be treated the same.

That my friend, is the difference between you and me then, because I believe it's wrong!

We should all be together, not only in life but also when we die.
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blrsea
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:01 pm

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 10):
So if I lived in, let's say Saudi Arabia, would I be allowed to build a Christian cemetery or church?

Nope, you won't even be allowed to have a prayer hall to worship christ.

Isn't it strange that muslims from all parts of the world, especially ones which actively discriminate against non-muslims quote "freedom of religion" and "freedom of expression" in other countries, but do nothing in their own countries to remove the discrimination?

We have the saudi government providing funds to madrasas and mosques across the world in non-muslim countries, but don't allow non-muslims to practise their faith in their own countries??
 
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:36 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 27):
so i do not see anything wrong for Muslims to be treated the same.

I do not see anything wrong with building a big Cathedral in Riyadh and Jeddah.

Quoting blrsea (Reply 29):
Isn't it strange that muslims from all parts of the world, especially ones which actively discriminate against non-muslims quote "freedom of religion" and "freedom of expression" in other countries, but do nothing in their own countries to remove the discrimination?

We have the saudi government providing funds to madrasas and mosques across the world in non-muslim countries, but don't allow non-muslims to practise their faith in their own countries??


Let me share a word with you about the Middle East.


hyp·o·crite
   /ˈhɪpəkrɪt/ Show Spelled[hip-uh-krit] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2.
a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.
 
Flighty
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:59 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 28):
We should all be together, not only in life but also when we die.

I agree. For example, if we had white people denying black people the right to be buried in their cemetery, that would be illegal in this country. It may also be illegal for religious cemeteries.

Anyway, I applaud the right of people to go places and buy real estate (and products) regardless of their color, religion, sexual orientation etc. If this needs to be enforced using the law then so be it.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:02 pm

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 10):
So if I lived in, let's say Saudi Arabia, would I be allowed to build a Christian cemetery or church?

What on earth does that have to do with the situation in Switzerland?? You seem to imply that it is unfair that religious freedom is not accepted in Saudia Arabia, yet suggest that this therefore means that Switzerland should be equally as intolerant. Strange logic, to say the least.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 18):
Switzerland is rightly held to a far higher standard than Saudi Arabia is.

   Exactly.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 30):
I do not see anything wrong with building a big Cathedral in Riyadh and Jeddah.

That's great, nor do I. Maybe we could write to the Saudi government?

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
If you don't want to mix with non-muslims, don't move to a non-muslim country.

What makes you think that all muslims in Switzerland 'moved' there??
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:04 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 23):
Dose not sound like assimilating to me if you have to bury your dead differently for the majority who live in that country!
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 23):
How even handed where everyone would be treated the same with NO exclusive groups !
Sounds good to me.

It's their religion! I don't call it exclusive, so what, a mosque where only MUSLIMS worship should be banned as well? What is the big deal? Are you losing any sleep over it? Let them buy their land and bury their dead according to their RELIGION.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:40 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 32):
What makes you think that all muslims in Switzerland 'moved' there??

Let me put it another way: If mixing with non-muslims bothers you, move to a predominantly muslim nation.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:53 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 34):
Let me put it another way: If mixing with non-muslims bothers you, move to a predominantly muslim nation.

So - either forgo your religious freedom or move away from your own country? Are you also applying that to Jews who want to be buried in a Jewish cemetary? How about Christians who want to be buried in a Christian church graveyard - which country should they be forced to move to? Either you have religious freedom or you don't.
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TheCommodore
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:46 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 32):
What on earth does that have to do with the situation in Switzerland?? You seem to imply that it is unfair that religious freedom is not accepted in Saudia Arabia, yet suggest that this therefore means that Switzerland should be equally as intolerant. Strange logic, to say the least.

No I think what he is saying is that if its good enough to happen in Switzerland then its good enough to happen anywhere else.

You cant expect others to respect your right's is it's not a two way thing

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 32):
That's great, nor do I. Maybe we could write to the Saudi government?

Then please go ahead, but don't expect a reply !!

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 33):
It's their religion! I don't call it exclusive,

So if it "EXCLUDES" (as a non Muslim I would be barred form being buried there) then what do you call it ????

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 35):
Are you also applying that to Jews who want to be buried in a Jewish cemetary?

I a word, YES

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 35):
How about Christians who want to be buried in a Christian church graveyard - which country should they be forced to move to?

Nothing excludes a non Christian, Muslim Jew, or Hindu from being buried in a Christian cemetery, nothing.

So your argument is void !
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RussianJet
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:59 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 36):
No I think what he is saying is that if its good enough to happen in Switzerland then its good enough to happen anywhere else.

You cant expect others to respect your right's is it's not a two way thing

In that case, maybe you could explain what precisely Swiss muslims have to do with what Saudi Arabia does? As for respecting others, I would imagine Swiss muslims would be perfectly ok for people of other faiths to be buried in accordance with their religious wishes too.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 36):
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 35):
Are you also applying that to Jews who want to be buried in a Jewish cemetary?

I a word, YES

So you don't agree with religious freedom. Nice.
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TheCommodore
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:14 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 37):
In that case, maybe you could explain what precisely Swiss muslims have to do with what Saudi Arabia does? As for respecting others,

Sure I will explain.

If its NOT ok for the same rights, (religious on not) to be afforded to non Muslims in Saudi Arabia, then why on earth should it be in Switzerland, or anywhere else for that matter ?

It has to be a two way mutual respect.

Why can't you appreciate that fact ?

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 37):
So you don't agree with religious freedom. Nice.

No I do respect freedoms, just so long as my freedoms are respected too, which in this case they don't appears to be if the shoe was on the other foot.

Can I be buried (as a non Muslim) in a Muslim cemetery ??? I think NOT

Please explain that to me.
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RussianJet
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:24 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 38):
Why can't you appreciate that fact ?

Because it is ridiculous to hold Swiss muslims accountable for standards in other countries. If I am a Christian I am in no way responsible for the policies of far-off 'Christian' countries, and nobody should treat me as if I were.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 38):
Can I be buried (as a non Muslim) in a Muslim cemetery ??? I think NOT

Please explain that to me.

Because that has nothing to do with religious freedom. If you choose to become a muslim then sure - you can be buried as one. If you are not a muslim and were to insist on being buried in muslim burial ground then that would not have the slightest connection to religious freedom aside from the fact that you would be disrespecting the right of others to that freedom by deliberately offending their beliefs.
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:36 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 39):
If I am a Christian I am in no way responsible for the policies of far-off 'Christian' countries, and nobody should treat me as if I were.

My answer stands, we are not just talking about religious freedoms, we are talking about mutual cultural respect in one another's countries

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 38):
If its NOT ok for the same rights, (religious on not) to be afforded to non Muslims in Saudi Arabia, then why on earth should it be in Switzerland, or anywhere else for that matter ?
Quoting ArniePie (Reply 4):
Some people just don't get it.
In death, everybody is equal, maybe people should take an example of how the US military honors its soldiers all on the same field (in this case, Arlington), with all different religions together;

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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:49 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 40):
My answer stands, we are not just talking about religious freedoms, we are talking about mutual cultural respect in one another's countries

Then you have a very strange take on this. A Swiss muslim, born in Switzerland, is probably no more likely than you or I to bear any responsibility for whether religious freedom exists in Saudi Arabia. What is this 'one another's countries' about anyway?? A Swiss muslim is from Switzerland. Saudi Arabia has nothing to do with it. Switzerland is as much his country as any other Swiss person, be they Jewish, Christian, Atheist or whatever.
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SOBHI51
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:59 am

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 30):
Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 27):
so i do not see anything wrong for Muslims to be treated the same.

I do not see anything wrong with building a big Cathedral in Riyadh and Jeddah.

Neither do i really, i am sure it will happen one day.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 38):
If its NOT ok for the same rights, (religious on not) to be afforded to non Muslims in Saudi Arabia, then why on earth should it be in Switzerland, or anywhere else for that matter ?

So two wrongs makes it right. Don't think so.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:08 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 36):
So if it "EXCLUDES" (as a non Muslim I would be barred form being buried there) then what do you call it ????

Become a Muslim then! If someone really wants to be buried there, become a Muslim. Why do you care so bad that they have their own cemeteries?

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 38):
Can I be buried (as a non Muslim) in a Muslim cemetery ??? I think NOT

WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO!?!?!

Oh yeah:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 23):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 19):
It sounds like you all are being racist!

Rubbish, don't start bringing up that BS. He is entitled to his opinion just as you are.

Well I got my opinion too. So do all the Swiss Muslims.


Ok answer me this, if they make a building (a mosque for example) made for just Muslims to worship, is that so wrong? If you follow your logic it is!
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TheCommodore
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:37 am

The Muslim community in Switzerland accounts for about 4.5 per cent of the population. Most Muslim immigrants came from the former Yugoslavia and Turkey. The community includes up to 100 nationalities.

Respect is the issue here, and if the facts in this article true then surly Swiss Muslims should be respectful of the majority in Switzerland who are not Muslim.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 43):
Well I got my opinion too. So do all the Swiss Muslims.

Absolutely right. No argument there. He just shouldn't call people racist for having a different opinion than his.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 43):
Ok answer me this, if they make a building (a mosque for example) made for just Muslims to worship, is that so wrong? If you follow your logic it is!

Yep.

What I'm saying is there should be no segregation in open society's today IMHO.

No exclusivley Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Greek Orthodox, whatever, schools, churches, hospitals cemetery etc. anymore.

We ALL need to live as one together, not in little separate groups scattered throughout different suburbs in large cities. This only causes animosities amongst different races/religions of people, we need to integrate not segregate to be happy together as we can appreciate different aspects of each others cultures. If you exclude then this will never happen. That stands when death occurs too, even in exclusive religious cemetery's.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:50 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 44):
No exclusivley Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Greek Orthodox, whatever, schools, churches, hospitals cemetery etc. anymore.

Wow. Well I have nothing to say.

I'm really curious, where are you from (Australia?), and do a lot of people agree with you? I hope the US never ever sinks to a level where they do not respect individual religions (even if they are only 4.5% of the population). That really scares me, I hope I always have a right to go to the church I want and I hope the people around me can choose where they want or not want to go.
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:59 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 45):
I hope I always have a right to go to the church I want and I hope the people around me can choose where they want or not want to go.

Come on now, I never said you don't have the right not to do this or that !

Please read my post more accurately.

I said it should no longer be exclusive just for that religion, it should embrace everyone, whether you are a member of that faith or not.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 45):
I hope I always have a right to go to the church I want and I hope the people around me can choose where they want or not want to go.

Yes you do, but others should be allowed to go to if they want. Not be excluded for going.

Is that fair in you opinion ??

This is what I said, Again.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 44):
What I'm saying is there should be no segregation in open society's today IMHO.
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 44):
We ALL need to live as one togethe
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 44):
we need to integrate not segregate to be happy together as we can appreciate different aspects of each others cultures/religions

  
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SOBHI51
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:37 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 46):
I said it should no longer be exclusive just for that religion, it should embrace everyone, whether you are a member of that faith or not.

Let me get this right. I a Muslim can go to Church or a Synaguogue and do my prayers there? Or vice versa? All in the name of embracing each other. I am sorry if this is the case then you are wrong very wrong.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:43 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 46):

Well, that is better. I think religions should do that, but I don't believe they should be forced to. I at least see what you are saying, and I respect that.
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Swiss Vs Islam: Here We Go Again...

Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:57 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 47):
Let me get this right. I a Muslim can go to Church or a Synaguogue and do my prayers there? Or vice versa? All in the name of embracing each other. I am sorry if this is the case then you are wrong very wrong.

Why am I wrong, VERY wrong as you put it ?

Why can't I respect your religion enough to go into a mosque and accept your values/traditions, or should I ask, why can't YOU accept my religion/values ?

Why is that wrong ?

Where are you from again ?

Explain yourself please.
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