Ken777
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Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:36 am

I spent a lot of time watching the news, including a lot of the debate today.

While both sides had some good speakers I was most impressed with John Boehner's delivery. (But not necessarily with the points.   )

And while he was speaking I kept thinking that he would probably be the best Nominee for President in 2012. It's hard for me to think of a Republican who is as polished in delivery and as potentially attractive a candidate. Oh, and the tan doesn't hurt.  


Edited for spelling

[Edited 2010-03-21 20:38:49]
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:38 am

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
And while he was speaking I kept thinking that he would probably be the best Nominee for President in 2012. It's hard for me to think of a Republican who is as polished in delivery and as potentially attractive a candidate. Oh, and the tan doesn't hurt.

I thought he had a hard time keeping a straight face while spewing the rhetoric. A true picture of a phony.
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Klaus
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:49 am

I thought his shrieking was quite undignified and the complete refusal to even acknowledge the possibility of any kind of compromise rather unimpressive for somebody aspiring to higher office.

If this had been a matter of immediate life or death one could have understood – but there seemed to be nothing but point-scoring on the backs of uninsured citizens, with an unhealthy dose of reality denial and lack of truthfulness.

Democracy lives on a sense of civic responsibility and it cannot function without at least a basic level of civility – as far as I have followed this whole affair, Boehner has never once shown any sign of either of the two, which is quite disappointing. Unfortunately this also seems to apply to most of his republican colleagues, which is a rather worrying situation for one of the most important democracies on this planet.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:09 am

Mixed emotions. I am still thinking maybe along the lines of Scott Brown.
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sv7887
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:14 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 1):
I thought he had a hard time keeping a straight face while spewing the rhetoric. A true picture of a phony.

Probably true. But these days aren't most of them phonies?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 2):
I thought his shrieking was quite undignified and the complete refusal to even acknowledge the possibility of any kind of compromise rather unimpressive for somebody aspiring to higher office.

That's the problem with the current GOP and why I am not as much as an enthusiastic supporter as I used to be. The political system in this country is just hopelessly corrupt.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 3):
Mixed emotions. I am still thinking maybe along the lines of Scott Brown.

Scott is just too inexperienced right now though he seems to have good instincts. I doubt the South/MidWest bloc would support him because of his social views.

We're probably going to see the usual suspects: Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee, etc. But if Obama can get the economy rolling he'll be tough to beat in 2012. It's still about the economy no matter what anyone says.
 
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:17 am

Someday I hope to see Paul Ryan taking that job!
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:27 am

Quoting sv7887 (Reply 4):
Scott is just too inexperienced right now though he seems to have good instincts. I doubt the South/MidWest bloc would support him because of his social views.

   what experience did Obama have! If Brown runs in 2012 he will have 3 years as a US senator. Much more than Obama did. Plus his social views would help him. The country as a whole doesn't want a bible thumper. Remember it's the independants that chose presidents not the far left or right. Texas will always vote for a Republican and California will always vote for a Democrat.
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:38 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 6):
Much more than Obama did.

Obama's one extra year as a Senator equals Scott Brown having much more experience than Obama? Sure it does. It's funny that you criticize Obama for being inexperienced, yet you support a candidate from your own party with a similar level of experience. Double standard anyone?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 6):
The country as a whole doesn't want a bible thumper.

Yet the GOP had no problem getting George W Bush elected...

[Edited 2010-03-22 00:18:05]
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:44 am

A question: Is his last name really pronounced "Bayner," or just the way it's spelled? My government teacher got all upset because some kid said his name in the obvious way..
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Mir
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:01 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 6):
If Brown runs in 2012 he will have 3 years as a US senator. Much more than Obama did.

Obama served for four years as a senator (a little less due to his resignation from the post after the 2008 election, but we can round off). Scott Brown, if he runs in 2012, would have served three, as you said. Explain to me again how 4 is much less than 3?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 6):
Remember it's the independants that chose presidents not the far left or right.

It is, however, the far left and the far right that decide who the independents have to choose between (one of the reasons we get crap candidates, IMO, but that's a different topic).

-Mir
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MoltenRock
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:36 pm

Maybe a Liz Cheney / Michelle Malkin or Michelle Bachmann (assuming Bachmann can even win reelection this November) ticket will be the best choice for the GOP. LOL
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:36 pm

Quoting sv7887 (Reply 4):
Probably true. But these days aren't most of them phonies?

No argument there, they sure are. Both sides.
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sw733
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:56 pm

Perhaps the best thing about him for the Repubs is that very little is known about him by the masses. The same could be said about Obama in the run-up to the last election. That being said, I don't see Boehner as #45...
 
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:31 pm

I just can't see him as an effective candidate.

From a purely superficial perspective he seems like such a sour character and more than a bit "John Edward"-esque with the coiffed hair and the tanning. But more substantially, he was basically the face of the Republican response to healthcare reform and was completely owned by Nancy Pelosi.

Not a good thing to have on your resume.
 
dxing
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:24 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 2):
I thought his shrieking was quite undignified and the complete refusal to even acknowledge the possibility of any kind of compromise rather unimpressive for somebody aspiring to higher office.

The President spent a whole year out on the stump shrieking, then spent his first year in office doing the same thing to any crowd he could muster.

Perhaps you missed the health care summit a few weeks ago. The one where the GOP presented a whole raft of ideas, no of which were adopted in the final legislation, which of course with bipartisan opposition.
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:36 am

Quoting DXing (Reply 14):
The President spent a whole year out on the stump shrieking, then spent his first year in office doing the same thing to any crowd he could muster.

Perhaps you missed the health care summit a few weeks ago. The one where the GOP presented a whole raft of ideas, no of which were adopted in the final legislation, which of course with bipartisan opposition.

What were you watching? All we saw was kill it, it was so obvious it was pathetic. That is what glued the Democrats together and got this bill passed. Obama had a good idea, show the party of no's real agenda, certainly not healthcare reform, just kill it. I would like to thank the Republicans for that.
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dxing
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:47 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 15):
What were you watching?

I was watching a reasoned advocation of tort reform, cost control, and an agreement on at least 4 of the major points of of the legislation as well as a number of doctors explaining why the legislation would not lead to lower costs. All of it was ignored because as President Obama said "I'm the President".

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 15):
That is what glued the Democrats together and got this bill passed.

Again, the only bipartisanship in this whole affair was a bipartisan opposition to its passage. 34 Democrats joined the GOP in voting against this unconsititutional monstrosity.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 15):
Obama had a good idea

Yep, it was such a good idea that immediately after it his health care proposal lost even more ground in the polls!
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:51 am

Quoting DXing (Reply 16):
this unconsititutional monstrosity

This keeps getting thrown around a lot. How exactly is this bill unconstitutional?
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BNAOWB
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:54 am

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 5):
Someday I hope to see Paul Ryan taking that job!

I am intrigued by the idea of a younger, "fresh face" candidate such as Paul Ryan, John Thune, Eric Cantor, or Tim Pawlenty.

Would a crowded field of 2012 Republican candidates favor a candidate with higher name recognition, such as Romney, over lesser known candidates? It seems Republicans nominate "the known" (Reagan, Bush, Dole, McCain) while Democrats often nominate "the unknown" (Dukakis, Clinton, Obama).

I hope that electibility vs. Obama in a national election is an important issue for Republican primary voters in 2012 (Read: Stay away from Palin and Huckabee)
 
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:59 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 17):
This keeps getting thrown around a lot. How exactly is this bill unconstitutional?

No where does the Constitution give the federal government the power to force the citizen to purchase something just to remain a citizen in good standing.
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:03 am

Quoting DXing (Reply 16):
Yep, it was such a good idea that immediately after it his health care proposal lost even more ground in the polls!

Am I incorrect, or will it be signed into law tomorrow? I stand by my statement, I watched a bunch of talking heads, just advocating the destruction of a bill to help people. Talk about transparency, they accused the Democrats lack of it. It was all too obvious from the Republican side. Kill it!
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OA412
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:03 am

Quoting DXing (Reply 19):
No where does the Constitution give the federal government the power to force the citizen to purchase something just to remain a citizen in good standing.

Well then the bill's opponents can take it to the Supreme Court and have it heard there, correct? That's what our system of checks and balances is for, is it not?
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:08 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 21):
Well then the bill's opponents can take it to the Supreme Court and have it heard there, correct? That's what our system of checks and balances is for, is it not?

Easy there, that kind of statement makes too much sense.  
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dxing
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:13 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 20):
Am I incorrect, or will it be signed into law tomorrow?

Lot's of things get done tomorrow, doesn't make it right.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 21):
Well then the bill's opponents can take it to the Supreme Court and have it heard there, correct? That's what our system of checks and balances is for, is it not?

Not what you asked. You asked what was unconstitutional about the bill. Of course it will be taken to the Supreme Court and argued before them.
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co777er
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:15 am

Which is what the state Attorney Generals will ultimately end up doing.
 
Speedbird741
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:18 am

Quoting BNAOWB (Reply 18):
I am intrigued by the idea of a younger, "fresh face" candidate such as Paul Ryan, John Thune, Eric Cantor, or Tim Pawlenty.

Would a crowded field of 2012 Republican candidates favor a candidate with higher name recognition, such as Romney, over lesser known candidates? It seems Republicans nominate "the known" (Reagan, Bush, Dole, McCain) while Democrats often nominate "the unknown" (Dukakis, Clinton, Obama).

Yes it does seem to happen with the gop. I can't imagine Ryan running for 2013, although I would very much like to. He seems to be VERY level headed, and has his facts straight. I have posted this video before and will do it again. Simply amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPxMZ1WdINs

Quoting OA412 (Reply 17):
This keeps getting thrown around a lot. How exactly is this bill unconstitutional?

The fact that people are forced to buy insurance or face a fine. This violates the tenth amendment (part at the very least) in the sense that congress cannot force states to enforce federal regulations (as this absurd bill mandating people to get insured).


President is to sign the bill tomorrow, and as soon as that happens numerous state lawmakers and attorneys general are to send this to courts.


Fingers crossed this thing goes back down the drain!



Speedbird741
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Speedbird741
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:22 am

Quoting co777er (Reply 24):
Which is what the state Attorney Generals will ultimately end up doing.

Florida
Virginia
Idaho
South Carolina
South Dakota
North Dakota
Michigan
Alabama
Washington
Pennsylvania
Utah
Texas
Nebraska


I might have more or less than the ones that are going to file. Please correct me.


Speedbird741
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:32 am

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 26):
I might have more or less than the ones that are going to file. Please correct me.

Who cares? All it takes is one. I hope numbers do not influence SC Decisions, by the looks of it those states would fail, 13 so far out of 50.
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:07 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 22):
Easy there, that kind of statement makes too much sense.  

Yeah really!

Quoting DXing (Reply 23):
Not what you asked. You asked what was unconstitutional about the bill. Of course it will be taken to the Supreme Court and argued before them.

Correct and you answered. Once I received my answer, I mentioned that those are options available to those who believe that this bill is unconstitutional.

Another question. If the Supreme Court votes in favor of the bill, will those of you who are calling it unconstitutional, drop your claims.

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 25):
Fingers crossed this thing goes back down the drain!

I'm going to assume that your in the US, but simply using Portugal as your flag. However, if you're in Portugal, what dog do you have in this fight?
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Speedbird741
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:12 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 28):
I'm going to assume that your in the US, but simply using Portugal as your flag. However, if you're in Portugal, what dog do you have in this fight?

I am Portuguese born, but live in the US. Not sure what you mean by "what dog do you have in this fight" though lol
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OA412
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:19 am

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 29):
Not sure what you mean by "what dog do you have in this fight" though lol

I mean that if you were Portuguese and living in Portugal, I'd be confused as to why you'd be so interested in seeing a foreign country's health care bill go down in flames.
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Flighty
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:27 am

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
I was most impressed with John Boehner's delivery. (But not necessarily with the points.   )

Yeah I was listening in the car. It was great! He made a couple good points, and delivered the fact he was mad. It was a good show.

But he seems like too much of a bed wetter to be the president.

He sings beautifully in this video recording!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0OzxvClwoU
 
Ken777
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:40 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 3):
I am still thinking maybe along the lines of Scott Brown.

That's as scary as Palin. Maybe they could run together.  
Quoting DXing (Reply 14):
The one where the GOP presented a whole raft of ideas, no of which were adopted in the final legislation,

So me were. Insurance buying groups instead of the public option. Cost cutting - with Senator Tom Coburn (THE Dr. Nob. in hteSenate) being appointed to the Cost Cutting Commission.

Quoting DXing (Reply 16):
Again, the only bipartisanship in this whole affair was a bipartisan opposition to its passage. 34 Democrats joined the GOP in voting against this unconsititutional monstrosity.

Of course there were no Republicans "for" it. They were not allowed to use their judgement - the orders from on high were clear.

Quoting DXing (Reply 19):
No where does the Constitution give the federal government the power to force the citizen to purchase something just to remain a citizen in good standing.

Sue! The liberals are setting up the public option as the conservatives get the lawsuits prepared.

Quoting DXing (Reply 23):
Not what you asked. You asked what was unconstitutional about the bill. Of course it will be taken to the Supreme Court and argued before them.

It's going to be interesting. Even if the mandate is overturned the taxes are in place - just ripe for the public option. And the SC will have a very hard time wiping out those taxes as it is the House who has that Constitutional authority.
 
dxing
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:24 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 28):
Another question. If the Supreme Court votes in favor of the bill, will those of you who are calling it unconstitutional, drop your claims.

Of course not. Did the abolitionists drop their claims about slavery after the Dred Scott decision?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 32):
Of course there were no Republicans "for" it. They were not allowed to use their judgement - the orders from on high were clear.

Evidently the 34 Democrats that voted against the bill weren't allowed to use their judgement either...or perhaps they just weren't presented with a big enough sweet heart deal to buy them off? For some it costs much more than an airplane ride or a worthless executive order.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 32):
Even if the mandate is overturned the taxes are in place - just ripe for the public option.

Which further proves that this is not about controlling costs, it's about power.
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OA412
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:31 am

Quoting DXing (Reply 33):
Of course not.

Well at least you're honest. But then, are you not suggesting that you know more about what is constitutional than does the Supreme Court of the United States?
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Flighty
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:47 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 34):
But then, are you not suggesting that you know more about what is constitutional than does the Supreme Court of the United States?
Quoting OA412 (Reply 28):
If the Supreme Court votes in favor of the bill, will those of you who are calling it unconstitutional, drop your claims.

I didn't know the SC votes on bills. Okay so they can weigh constitutionality. Yet that could be used for any law that certain people don't like. For example smoking marijuana is arguably completely legal and the gobmint has no jurisdiction over that. Almost anything could be made into a con law argument. Yet that is dishonest on some level. The congress writes laws and barring extreme cases, the SC is supposed to interpret those laws and decide cases based on the law.

To always bring the constitution into it is to say that the SC is always supposed to micro-manage every law. Arguably, no law can be made at all because somebody can always argue it is unconstitutional. Or it disrespects private beliefs of some person.
 
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:52 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 35):
I didn't know the SC votes on bills. Okay so they can weigh constitutionality.

And that is, of course, what I meant. Obviously they don't vote for or against a bill. However, if we're suggesting that the bill is unconstitutional and the SC upholds its constitutionality, continuing to argue that the bill is unconstitutional suggests to me that the people doing so believe they know better than the SC.
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dxing
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:53 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 34):
But then, are you not suggesting that you know more about what is constitutional than does the Supreme Court of the United States?

That's the wonderful thing about our government. The Supreme Court can rule something unconstitutional and by virtue of a Constitutional amendment it becomes Constitutional and the Court can't touch it. The reverse is true as well, something that they rule as being Constitutional can become unconstitutional via the same amendment process. The Courts job is merely to interpet, not make law.
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MoltenRock
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:21 am

Quoting co777er (Reply 24):
Which is what the state Attorney Generals will ultimately end up doing.

I highly doubt they have standing to bring suit as a non-affected individual, before a regulation even begins has standing in court. And the state AG's do not get to bring suit in the SCOTUS regardless of what Blowhard Limbaugh says. They have to withstand a dismissal in US District Court, and work their way thru the appeals process, and only then after a few years get to challenge the issue with the Supreme Court. But nice try.
 
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RE: Boehner: Republicans Best Choice In 2012?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:07 pm

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