Boeing744
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Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:17 pm

Well I'm (not) proud to say that my University will be getting a visit from Ann Coulter tonight. Coulter is on a three-day tour of Canadian universities, appearing at the University of Western Ontario yesterday, here at the University of Ottawa tonight and the University of Calgary tomorrow.

I don't oppose her right to speak here on campus per se, but she better watch her mouth for her own sake. UofO has a very large Muslim student body and I know she will be tempted to say something inciteful. One of the University Vice-Presidents Francois Houle warned her in a letter to watch her mouth and be respectful. She is of coure allowed to express her opinions but they should be phrased respectfully and maturely.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2710026

What are other Canadians' perspectives on Ms. Coulter's visit? Personally I'll probably go check out the anti-Coulter protest tonight at least to see what they're saying - The University of Ottawa is much more diverse (as far as I understand) than both UWO and UofCalgary.

[Edited 2010-03-23 08:20:39]
 
Arrow
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:35 pm

Quoting Boeing744 (Thread starter):
What are other Canadians' perspectives on Ms. Coulter's visit? Personally I'll probably go check out the anti-Coulter protest tonight at least to see what they're saying - The University of Ottawa is much more diverse (as far as I understand) than both UWO and UofCalgary.

This has been a great story. I can't stand Coulter, or her ravings, but I think she should be able to say whatever she wants. Funny thing is -- that email warning her to watch her mouth was trying to do her a favour, since we have laws against hate speech that, if violated, could land her in jail for a few hours. And lets face it, most of what she has to say is pretty hateful.

Now wouldn't THAT be an international incident!
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Aaron747
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:56 pm

Coulter has big balls stepping foot in Canada, that's all I can say. Especially after she made an idiot of herself on Canadian TV a few years back with that claim that Canadians sent soldiers to Vietnam - and refused to admit she was wrong when called on it by the interviewer.
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Boeing744
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:58 pm

Here is the full text of M. Houle's letter. I find it very reasonable and appropriate. I sent M. Houle an email in support of him because of the way Coulter spun the message:


Dear Ms. Coulter,

I understand that you have been invited by University of Ottawa Campus Conservatives to speak at the University of Ottawa this coming Tuesday. We are, of course, always delighted to welcome speakers on our campus and hope that they will contribute positively to the meaningful exchange of ideas that is the hallmark of a great university campus. We have a great respect for freedom of expression in Canada, as well as on our campus, and view it as a fundamental freedom, as recognized by our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

I would, however, like to inform you, or perhaps remind you, that our domestic laws, both provincial and federal, delineate freedom of expression (or “free speech”) in a manner that is somewhat different than the approach taken in the United States. I therefore encourage you to educate yourself, if need be, as to what is acceptable in Canada and to do so before your planned visit here. You will realize that Canadian law puts reasonable limits on the freedom of expression. For example, promoting hatred against any identifiable group would not only be considered inappropriate, but could in fact lead to criminal charges. Outside of the criminal realm, Canadian defamation laws also limit freedom of expression and may differ somewhat from those to which you are accustomed. I therefore ask you, while you are a guest on our campus, to weigh your words with respect and civility in mind. There is a strong tradition in Canada, including at this University, of restraint, respect and consideration in expressing even provocative and controversial opinions and urge you to respect that Canadian tradition while on our campus. Hopefully, you will understand and agree that what may, at first glance, seem like unnecessary restrictions to freedom of expression do, in fact, lead not only to a more civilized discussion, but to a more meaningful, reasoned and intelligent one as well.
I hope you will enjoy your stay in our beautiful country, city and campus.


Sincerely,


François Houle
Vice-recteur aux études / Vice-President Academic and Provost
Université d’Ottawa / University of Ottawa
550, rue Cumberland Street
Ottawa (ON) K1N 6N5
téléphone / telephone : 613 562-5737
télécopieur / fax : 613 562-5103
 
kaitak
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:58 pm

Good for him, a respectful civilised "shot across the bows" and hopefully she will take heed.

Has she given any indication of the issues she is going to address while in Canada; is she involved in a student debate or just giving a general talk?
 
Boeing744
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:04 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 4):
Has she given any indication of the issues she is going to address while in Canada; is she involved in a student debate or just giving a general talk?

From what I understand it's just a talk about freedom of expression and speech - a topic which she obviously exploits to support her ultra-right rantings. Her Canadian equivilant Ezra Levant is also speaking.
 
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:17 pm

Quoting arrow (Reply 1):
I can't stand Coulter, or her ravings, but I think she should be able to say whatever she wants.

I agree and it's disappointing to find that Canada as well as other countries curb the freedom of expression. It is critical to a free society.
 
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:19 pm

A little something from the Toronto Sun and Ann's visit to the University of Western Ontario.....

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/03/22/13322641-qmi.html
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NIKV69
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:27 pm

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 6):
Canada as well as other countries curb the freedom of expression

Of course it's part of the collective good. Comrade.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 2):
Coulter has big balls stepping foot in Canada,

True, I think she is wasting her time and asking for trouble.
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TheCol
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:29 pm

Quoting Boeing744 (Thread starter):
Personally I'll probably go check out the anti-Coulter protest tonight at least to see what they're saying

Unless you want to throw gas on the fire, it would probably be best to ignore her altogether. Usually counter protests by university students propagate more hate than constructive criticism.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 3):
I find it very reasonable and appropriate.

  

I found nothing wrong with it.

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 6):

We consider hate speech a form of discrimination and subversion. There's really nothing "free" about it.

[Edited 2010-03-23 12:32:28]
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johnboy
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:44 pm

Ann Coulter would like nothing better than to be thrown in jail for a few hours.
She's been out of the news lately and i'm sure her website needs a few more hits to keep her somewhat relevant in the nutso right-wing media.
 
us330
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:53 pm

Quoting TheCol (Reply 9):
Unless you want to throw gas on the fire, it would probably be best to ignore her altogether. Usually counter protests by university students propagate more hate than constructive criticism

I'd tell anybody at any one of the Canadian Universities that she is visiting that exact same thing. Protesting is great if it has an effect--the problem is that in this case, protesting her visit will do more to benefit her, than those who oppose her. It reinforces the notion that her opinion and insight have some sort of credibility beyond the usual hot-air punditry, and will help her sell books and put her back in the public spotlight.

Canadians, you have every right to protest--but just because you have the right to do something, doesn't mean that you should do it--especially if protesting serves to undermine the goal that the protest hopes to accomplish.

I'm all for free speech, and she has every right to say what she wants to say, but I have every right to ignore her and think of her as just one of the many pundits on both side of the sphere who spend too much time complaining and spouting off, and not enough time trying to accomplish the things that they are supposedly in favor of.
 
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:34 pm

Quoting Boeing744 (Thread starter):

As a current uOttawa graduate student who's office is in the very same building she is speaking in, I have made the decision to stay away from my office in the afternoon/evening. I fully support her right to speak but do not support her views one bit. As a current student (first semester graduate student) I can vouch that the campus is a very diverse community in every respect -- something I am quite proud of; the fact that uOttawa is officially bilingual makes it even more diverse. Being an American expat, one of the non-academic reasons I came here is to distance myself from people like Ann Coulter.

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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:48 pm

After everyone saying how much they despise everything that she says, I decided to read her latest column, something I haven't done in a while.

http://townhall.com/columnists/AnnCo...10/03/17/my_healthcare_plan?page=1

You might disagree with what she says, but you can't deny that she makes a few salient points. Is the simple fact that you disagree with her positions the cause of your contempt?
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CGKings317
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:00 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Is the simple fact that you disagree with her positions the cause of your contempt?

No. I have had many constructive disagreements with many people. However, she is well known to say some pretty downright incendiary things to traditionally marginalized segments of the population which I won't further divulge here. I do have the capacity to disagree without being disagreeable, most people do: I do not however, think she has this capacity.

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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:02 pm

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 6):

I agree and it's disappointing to find that Canada as well as other countries curb the freedom of expression. It is critical to a free society.

No, it's not. Whether or not laws against hate speech etc. are necessary nowadays, the absence of such legislation is no prerequisite for a free society, as Canada and other countries demonstrate.
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AF340
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:39 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 4):
Good for him, a respectful civilised "shot across the bows" and hopefully she will take heed.

Always great to see people sticking up for basic human rights  

I'm not going to bring up Voltaire, but shame on you sir -- she does not incite violence therefore she has the right to say what she wants.

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 6):
it's disappointing to find that Canada as well as other countries curb the freedom of expression

   It truly is shameful. Those who call for this silencing are not true Canadians.


I do just love how she is turning the tables on the moronic Provost by threatening a Human Rights complaint on him: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2713909 .

I just watched her on the Michael Coren Show and she was okay. Sure, she's far too polarizing and really doesn't help the Conservative cause, but Coren did press her on her Hitler comments. I'd recommend it to any Coren or Coulter fans.
 
Boeing744
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:26 am

Quoting AF340 (Reply 16):
It truly is shameful. Those who call for this silencing are not true Canadians.

No one is calling for her to be silenced. Nowhere was that said. If you read my original post I don't have a problem with her expressing her opinions on campus. M. Houle's letter was simply asking that she refrain from incendiary comments phrased in her usual immature fashion.

Quoting AF340 (Reply 16):
she does not incite violence therefore she has the right to say what she wants.

Many would disagree with you. It's not only about inciting violence either; rather, it's about inciting hate which leads to violence. It's not as simple as her saying "go out and hurt Muslims."
 
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OA412
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:28 am

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 6):
I agree and it's disappointing to find that Canada as well as other countries curb the freedom of expression. It is critical to a free society.

See the funny thing about this is that if Ann Coulter had her way, we wouldn't live in a free society. Do you remember when she suggested that we go into Muslim nations and forcibly convert their populations to Christianity? Somebody who truly believes in a free society would never make such a suggestion. Additionally, when the American Founding Fathers and others came up with the idea of freedom of speech, I highly doubt they were talking about protecting hate-speech.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 5):
a topic which she obviously exploits to support her ultra-right rantings.

Exactly.

Quoting TheCol (Reply 9):
We consider hate speech a form of discrimination and subversion. There's really nothing "free" about it.

  

Quoting Rara (Reply 15):
No, it's not. Whether or not laws against hate speech etc. are necessary nowadays, the absence of such legislation is no prerequisite for a free society, as Canada and other countries demonstrate.

  

Quoting AF340 (Reply 16):
Always great to see people sticking up for basic human rights  

Calling for the forcible conversion of Muslims to Christianity is a basic human right? Calling a presidential candidate a faggot is a basic human right? Since when did hate-speech and the exploitation of freedom of speech to further your own cause become a basic human right?
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Boeing744
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:50 am

So according to the CBC, she apparently chose to cancel the speech tonight because of "security concerns" after "thousands" showed up to protest her coming to the UofO.
 
AF340
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:50 am

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 17):
M. Houle's letter was simply asking that she refrain from incendiary comments phrased in her usual immature fashion.

And threatened legal action if she made such comments. Don't be naive, this was an attempt to silence her. Ontario universities have recently shown their true stripes with Israel Apartheid Week and other similar actions.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 18):
Calling for the forcible conversion of Muslims to Christianity is a basic human right?

Find the quote. She never said forcible. Even if she did, that's her right according to the American constitution.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 18):
Calling a presidential candidate a faggot is a basic human right?

Yes. (although it may be considered defamation if used under certain contexts)

Quoting OA412 (Reply 18):
Since when did hate-speech and the exploitation of freedom of speech to further your own cause become a basic human right?

1787.
 
Boeing744
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:19 am

Quoting AF340 (Reply 20):
And threatened legal action if she made such comments. Don't be naive, this was an attempt to silence her. Ontario universities have recently shown their true stripes with Israel Apartheid Week and other similar actions.

You're misrepresenting M. Houle's letter. He was not threatening legal action against her, he was alerting her of Canada's laws regarding hate speech.

Also, Israel Apartheid week was not endorsed in any way by my University, and I would be surprised if others in Ontario did.
 
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OA412
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:18 am

Quoting AF340 (Reply 20):
Find the quote. She never said forcible. Even if she did, that's her right according to the American constitution.

Gee thanks for the civics lesson.  . Here's the exact quote: "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." Are you honestly going to tell me that such a hypothetical conversion to Christianity would not be by force?

I'll reiterate what I've already said, the problem I have with people like Ann Coulter is that they abuse the right to freedom of speech. There are people in this world with no basic civil liberties, and here you have people like her who are given these liberties and then choose to use them to incite, to inflame, to defame, and to provoke. Certainly that is the beauty of a free society (which I believe Canada and any other country with restrictions on hate-speech continue to be), but it would nice if she and others like her chose to reflect upon this fact once in a while.

Quoting AF340 (Reply 20):
Quoting OA412 (Reply 18):Since when did hate-speech and the exploitation of freedom of speech to further your own cause become a basic human right?
1787.

Again, thanks for the civics lesson, but my question was rhetorical, and I'm sure you're well aware of that. Again, as a society, we give her, and others like her, the right to spout off and say whatever they choose to say. If she and her ilk had their way, they would take basic freedoms away from many of us in this world. Hopefully, she appreciates this little fact.
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A346Dude
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:25 am

I'm not sure who's dumber, Ann Coulter or the people who protest Ann Coulter. I don't agree with almost everything she says, but she has every right to say it - that is the price of freedom. I'm more than willing to pay it.

Stop paying attention to this woman and she will simply disappear.

[Edited 2010-03-23 22:26:24]
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MattRB
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:20 pm

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 23):
she has every right to say it - that is the price of freedom.

No, she doesn't. Just as one cannot run into a crowded theatre, screaming 'FIRE!' at the top of their lungs, Ms. Coulter does not have the right to espouse hate speech without consequence.

"Coulter was in the middle of a three-city tour of Canada which began at the University of Western Ontario in London on Monday and ends in Calgary on Thursday.

The event in London went without incident, but not without controversy. When answering questions from students, Coulter told a 17-year-old Muslim student to 'take a camel' instead of a the flying carpet she has previously suggested Muslims use for transportation."

And we're supposed to tolerate stuff like this in the name of 'free speech'? Would you tolerate it if she had told a black student to get to the back of the bus?
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NIKV69
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:32 pm

Quoting MattRB (Reply 24):
The event in London went without incident, but not without controversy. When answering questions from students, Coulter told a 17-year-old Muslim student to 'take a camel' instead of a the flying carpet she has previously suggested Muslims use for transportation."

Yes, part of the reason I don't care for her, it's one thing to have a different opinion but her approach sucks. We get enough name calling from the left. No reason to stoop down to that level. This whole thing was a waste.
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ac888yow
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:13 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 25):
When answering questions from students, Coulter told a 17-year-old Muslim student to 'take a camel' instead of a the flying carpet she has previously suggested Muslims use for transportation."

Pretty offensive, but hateful? No, that's just your emotions talking.

If Ann Coulter commits hate crime while spewing her garbage then she should be charged, convicted, and jailed. Until then she has every right to say the things she says. If you don't like it, ignore it, don't listen, don't read, don't attend ... whatever. A lot of people don't like Howard Stern either ... nobody forces them to tune in.

This entire episode is an embarrassment for the budding little fascist students at UofO, the University itself, and the City of Ottawa. Congratulations to them for winning this hard-fought 'battle' against Coulter. In doing they've stifled free speech, the very thing that they purport to support. Sadly, they're too dumb to realize that the best way to defeat someone like Coulter is to let her speak more often and in front of as many people as possible. In doing so she'll eventually either slip up and say something criminal and wind up in jail, or her act will grow tired and turn off so many people that she'll end up speaking in front of empty rooms.

She is firing back by filing a human rights complaint and I wish her every success in pursuing that for no other reason as it is exposing the sad state of 'free' speech in our country. This type of censorship has no place in Canada.

[Edited 2010-03-24 08:18:48]
 
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yowza
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:24 pm

Does anyone actually care that this moron is still alive? She's a troll. Stop feeding her attention.

FIN
 
474218
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:32 pm

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 19):
So according to the CBC, she apparently chose to cancel the speech tonight because of "security concerns" after "thousands" showed up to protest her coming to the UofO.

So I take it mob rule is acceptable in Canada?
 
NIKV69
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:56 pm

Quoting ac888yow (Reply 26):
Pretty offensive, but hateful? No, that's just your emotions talking.

That wasn't my quote but I will respond, I am not againt the approach of her and people like Mark Levin because it's hateful. I am against it because we just don't need it. Like I said we have enough people in the left like Ed Schultz who can't voice their opposition against people like Rush without name calling. As a republican it's pains me to see people like her because it can be construed as hateful. I mean I sure see hate in Ed Schultz and Rachel Maddows eyes. Are these people fringe? Sure but we will get more accomplished with a more subtle approach. I don't know what Ann was thinking here but it was stupid and irresponsible. Which is why she had to cancel it.
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ac888yow
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:13 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 29):
I don't know what Ann was thinking here but it was stupid and irresponsible. Which is why she had to cancel it.

I don't think she cancelled it. I heard that security officials cancelled the event as there was heightening risk of violence from the protesters that threatened the safety of Coulter, the attendees, and themselves alike.

And I'll say it again. We have laws protecting against hate speech. If she or anyone else crosses the line, they will be prosecuted. Until then, they are free to say whatever they want and I will defend that regardless of whether I agree with what they are saying.

Heck, a University of Ottawa law professor even admitted that nothing she has said constitutes a crime under our hate laws. The censorship we saw yesterday was uncalled for and makes us no better than some dictatorial regimes that we claim superiority over.
 
474218
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:28 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 29):
I don't know what Ann was thinking here but it was stupid and irresponsible.

This statement is just as asinine as when Obama said, 'I don't know anything about it but I am sure the policeman acted stuiply'!

Just goes to show what "closed minded people" liberials are. They have there mind made up and don't want to hear any opposing arguements!!!
 
Arrow
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:50 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 28):
So I take it mob rule is acceptable in Canada?

About the same as in the US. Weren't there some Tea Party disruptions last summer at those health care public forums? Wasn't one of them canceled. or abandoned, because the speakers couldn't shout loud enough to be heard?

It shouldn't be acceptable in either country.


Quoting 474218 (Reply 31):
Just goes to show what "closed minded people" liberials are.

"close-minded" is an equal opportunity disease that affects the left and the right in equal measure.

[Edited 2010-03-24 09:51:05]
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NIKV69
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:06 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 31):
Just goes to show what "closed minded people" liberials are. They have there mind made up and don't want to hear any opposing arguements!!!

That is all welll and good but I am a republican.
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474218
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:30 pm

Quoting arrow (Reply 32):
"close-minded" is an equal opportunity disease that affects the left and the right in equal measure.

When was the last time a "left wing speaker" was prevented from speaking at a university?

Quoting arrow (Reply 32):
About the same as in the US. Weren't there some Tea Party disruptions last summer at those health care public forums? Wasn't one of them canceled. or abandoned, because the speakers couldn't shout loud enough to be heard?

The only "health care fourms" canceled were canceled by the congressmen (and women) that didn't want to hear what the Tea Party anttendees had to say. Liberals don't want to be challenged, they think you should sit back listen to what they have to say and don't question.

I have Republician congressman, you can attend one of his town hall meeetings you can stand up and ask him any question you want. My son has a Democrat congressman, at his town hall meetings all questions have to be submitted in writting a week in advance. He then selects the questions he wants to answer. He doesn't want to be challanged.
 
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:49 pm

From what a Toronto radio host said about her is that one chapter of each of her books has one degree of truth such as "The single mother" chapter of her most recent book.

I actually find her quite entertaining and would much rather listen to her than Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh, probably because she is actually pleasant to look at  
Quoting mbmbos (Reply 6):
I agree and it's disappointing to find that Canada as well as other countries curb the freedom of expression. It is critical to a free society.

Freedom of speech is alive and well in Canada however if you say something that can be deemed as "hate speech" in Canada then you can be charged for it, and as she is in Canada she has to follow our laws. This guy was simply warning her for her own sake.

The comment she made about invading Muslim countries and converting them to Christianity that she made which made a stir even in the US would get her in far more trouble in Canada for possible reasons of hate speech, also we have pretty much the same view on the freedom of religion as most other free countries.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 34):
The only "health care fourms" canceled were canceled by the congressmen (and women) that didn't want to hear what the Tea Party anttendees had to say. Liberals don't want to be challenged, they think you should sit back listen to what they have to say and don't question.

I saw some of that footage from last summer especially with Arlen Specter's town halls, some of these people didn't give the man a chance to respond to their questions and kept interrupting. Also when statements are made like "Get your government hands off my Medicare." how the heck are you supposed to have an informed debate.

Also it may have had something to do with people also coming to Town Halls with guns strapped to their ankles. Now I know there is nothing illegal about that but that may have something to do with security concerns and a gun shouldn't be needed at what is supposed to be a civil debate.

[Edited 2010-03-24 11:08:22]
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Aaron747
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:52 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Is the simple fact that you disagree with her positions the cause of your contempt?

Well no...whether it's Olbermann, Matthews, Hannity or Coulter, some of us just can't stand people who are plainly idiots.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 28):
So I take it mob rule is acceptable in Canada?

Again, why would anyone come to this woman's defense? She has no integrity - period. She questioned a Canadian interviewer on Canadian television about Canada's role in Vietnam, couldn't stand her ground, and never fessed to being wrong. Only morons do that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-6ZjEQwhrY
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AF340
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:26 am

Quoting MattRB (Reply 24):
Just as one cannot run into a crowded theatre, screaming 'FIRE!' at the top of their lungs, Ms. Coulter does not have the right to espouse hate speech without consequence.

They literally did just that to stop her from speaking. But no, she's the one that needs to be charged...  
Quoting OA412 (Reply 22):
Certainly that is the beauty of a free society (which I believe Canada and any other country with restrictions on hate-speech continue to be), but it would nice if she and others like her chose to reflect upon this fact once in a while.
Quoting OA412 (Reply 22):
If she and her ilk had their way, they would take basic freedoms away from many of us in this world. Hopefully, she appreciates this little fact.

Listen, I am no fan of Ann Coulter, I think she has done a lot of harm to the legitimate conservative movement in the US, but we cannot pick and choose who deserves free-speech. What it comes down to is that although she has likely offended thousands+ people worldwide, she really has not caused death nor violence against a group. There are a number of PROFESSORS at Ontario (and I suspect US) universities that go far beyond what Ms. Coulter says -- to the point of likely causing violence. I believe that Aijaz Ahmad has just as much a right to speak freely as Ann Coulter. But let's be honest, Coulter's words have not led to any (published/reported) violence.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 21):
Also, Israel Apartheid week was not endorsed in any way by my University, and I would be surprised if others in Ontario did.

Sure, but it still occured -- without a warning from the Provost or silencing by students. You have to admit there is a double standard there. I do still believe however, that the week should not be silenced.
 
AirStairs
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:07 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
You might disagree with what she says, but you can't deny that she makes a few salient points. Is the simple fact that you disagree with her positions the cause of your contempt?

For a long time I was seriously bothered with Ann Coulter. I still am. But after reading some of what she has written and watching some of her appearances, I do agree that she makes salient, relevant points. But she has said herself that her strategy is invective, and even that she takes to the nth degree. So I cannot support much of what she says, but some of her basic points actually have merit. You just have to shovel through the shit.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 17):
Many would disagree with you. It's not only about inciting violence either; rather, it's about inciting hate which leads to violence. It's not as simple as her saying "go out and hurt Muslims."

Where do you draw the line? Should I be prosecuted for inciting cynicism which incites hate which incites violence? And given the fact that the decision to be violent rests totally in the hands of the reader, how can she hold responsibility for anything but the most explicit hate speech? That unstable and irrational people happen to hear her speak is not justification for limiting what she can say.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 18):
Calling for the forcible conversion of Muslims to Christianity is a basic human right? Calling a presidential candidate a faggot is a basic human right? Since when did hate-speech and the exploitation of freedom of speech to further your own cause become a basic human right?

Freedom by its own definition cannot be exploited. And all of those are covered under the right to free speech, yes. Why shouldn't she be allowed to say it?

Quoting OA412 (Reply 22):
There are people in this world with no basic civil liberties, and here you have people like her who are given these liberties and then choose to use them to incite, to inflame, to defame, and to provoke.

The point of liberty is that you have the choice. Liberty with the exception that it can't be mean or racist or anti-gay or anti-religion is useless.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 22):
it would nice if she and others like her chose to reflect upon this fact once in a while.

After reading and hearing much of what she says, it is my impression that she actually thinks about it quite a bit. Invective is part of her communications strategy and it must be acknowledged that she's used it very effectively. So to characterize it as willy-nilly spouting off I think is inaccurate. That is not to say it is not unproductive, distracting, untrue, and mean-spirited.

Quoting MattRB (Reply 24):
No, she doesn't. Just as one cannot run into a crowded theatre, screaming 'FIRE!' at the top of their lungs, Ms. Coulter does not have the right to espouse hate speech without consequence.

Circumstantial restrictions on free speech are entirely different than content-based ones, which anyone who has spent an hour in court could tell you.

Quoting MattRB (Reply 24):
And we're supposed to tolerate stuff like this in the name of 'free speech'? Would you tolerate it if she had told a black student to get to the back of the bus?

Would I tolerate it in the sense that I would sit there and nod? No. Do I think she should be allowed to tell a black student to get to the back of the bus in the context of that question (how she proposes students of a particular race or religion travel)? Why not? Because he would get offended? It's clearly not inciting violence...
 
A346Dude
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:25 am

Quoting starac17 (Reply 35):
Freedom of speech is alive and well in Canada however if you say something that can be deemed as "hate speech" in Canada then you can be charged for it

You do realize what a contradiction that is, right?

How do you reliably separate controversial speech from hate speech? What is the precise definition of hate speech? You could ask 20 different people and get 20 different answers, none of which would apply reasonably to every conceivable case. And who gets to assess every controversial comment and decide which ones cross this vaguely defined hate speech line?

Free speech is a worthless concept unless it applies to speech you don't like.
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Boeing744
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:09 pm

Quoting AF340 (Reply 37):

Sure, but it still occured -- without a warning from the Provost or silencing by students. You have to admit there is a double standard there. I do still believe however, that the week should not be silenced.

You don't know that the University didn't warn them. I would actually think they likely did. The Ann Coulter letter was leaked by Coulter herself - it was never meant to be public. It is very possible, even likely, that the University did the same with Israel Apartheid Week and it was simply not leaked.

Of course we can't be sure though.
 
AGM100
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:14 pm

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 39):
Free speech is a worthless concept unless it applies to speech you don't like.

True , but the left simply "promotes" the "mobs" to show up and shout ... its cool to do... and gets you cred at the coffee shop and book store. These are the children of the protestors from the 60's its hip and cool to do it. This is not a discussion of freedome of speech so much as it is a question of orderly disagreement. The left activists have proven over and over that they will show up ,shout and disrespect the speakers who do not fall into the leftist clone world. They all Look like a bunch of granola eating ugly lesbians to me anyway .... !     

And I dont even like Ann Coulter .... she rubs me the wrong way but the chick sells books !
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iairallie
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:32 pm

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 6):
I agree and it's disappointing to find that Canada as well as other countries curb the freedom of expression. It is critical to a free society.

Agreed. Frankly I would rather everyone say what they believe no matter how hateful at least if they are open I know what to expect from them. I would have forewarning of what is brewing inside them. How else am I going to get to know the "enemy" if I wall off all those who have opinions that differ from mine.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 2):
Coulter has big balls stepping foot in Canada

Or big "Thatchers" as Colbert calls lady balls

Quoting OA412 (Reply 22):
Here's the exact quote: "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."

context and tone make all the difference in the extrapolation of meaning without either what you posted has no relevance.
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StarAC17
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:37 pm

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 39):
What is the precise definition of hate speech? You could ask 20 different people and get 20 different answers,

Same with a lot of other legal things, if anything isn't black and white its the justice system.

Hate speech is typically defined as "Bigoted speech attacking or disparaging a social or ethnic group or a member of such a group". If Anne Coulter has repeated to that 17 year old girl what she said about invading muslim nations and converting them to Christianity, then yes she could be charged.

Also if any Canadian radio host or media personality said that kind of thing they would likely have charges placed upon them. This is the rule as I interpret it but as the demographics in Canada constantly change I'm not sure myself whether I agree with it.

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 39):
Free speech is a worthless concept unless it applies to speech you don't like.

We have that I hear stuff every day I disagree with or dislike, I can freely say whatever I please about the current government without repercussion. You just can't legally say something attacking another ethnic group for the reason that, whether or not this is a good thing is a matter of opinion.

This isn't about stuff you don't like its about things said towards certain ethnic groups that could potentially incite violence.

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 39):
And who gets to assess every controversial comment and decide which ones cross this vaguely defined hate speech line?

If it gets into a court room then it would be a jury of your peers or a judge.
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Arrow
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:01 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 41):
These are the children of the protestors from the 60's its hip and cool to do it.

My grand children, actually. They make me proud.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
AGM100
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:53 pm

Quoting arrow (Reply 44):
They make me proud.

The same groups who will scream at a pro life speaker would sit quitely while a burka clad women speaks of fairness and puts down the US as a oppresive regime. It happens here at our university as well . The criteria for acceptable speach goes something like this .

1. Anti US (Anything)
2. Pro Abortion
3. Why oil companies want you to gag of pollution ?
4. Legalize Marijuana and how to force Dick Cheney to do graphix bong hits a guatanamo bay.
5. Out right communism why its great!
6. Out right socialism is not the best but hey its cool.
7. Legalize all illegal immigrants.
8. Why do the republicans hate baby owls so much and want to shoot them for target practice?
9. Why do conservatives want to kill grey wales with nuclear weapons ?
10. How can we help Barack Obama become the greatest president of all time.

And a sure fire way to get the crowds you want .... " How bad was George W. Bush ?" Its the same old story ... they dress and yell like "rebels" but fall right into line with the agenda ...everytime...
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A332
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:15 pm

You know, the whole display from the Canadian left has been completely disgraceful. Talk about a double standard when it comes to free speech.

I don't like Ann Coulter or anything she stands for. That said, she has just as much right to say what she believes as much as the next person has every right to denounce her.

She's a master manipulator and a crafty & creative businesswoman. She's a professional 'troll' if you will... she's made a career of it. For the Canadian left to openly threaten her with violence and do whatever they can to silence her right to free speech simply works against their cause and right into Coulter's master plan.

Way to go... thanks for making us look like fools on the world stage.

Tsk.
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Arrow
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 pm

Quoting A332 (Reply 46):
Way to go... thanks for making us look like fools on the world stage.

You're over-reacting. Just about every editorial comment I've seen in the last couple of days has defended her right to say whatever she wants -- the Globe made that U. of Ottawa president look like a fool. She'll probably have a fine time of it in Calgary tonight, after which she can go back to oblivion in the US.

And who on the Canadian left "openly threatened her with violence?" Keep in mind that she made the decision not to speak in Ottawa. And she got more than her licks in over that -- calling UOttawa bush league and suggesting that any fool can get in. I'd say this trip has been a resounding success for Coulter -- she's been on the front pages for days and she would have been disappointed beyond belief if no one had paid any attention (my recommended course of action for the world's provocateurs.)

Students making a ruckus? That's what they do. I don't agree with them either, but when students stop making a ruckus and stop challenging the establishment we're all in trouble.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
474218
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:14 pm

Quoting arrow (Reply 47):
after which she can go back to oblivion in the US.

Oblivion, she has written 7 best selling books, has a newspaper column and is paid $$$ for speeches?

It always amazes me that people are so afraid of hearing a different point of view. I listen to Obama's speechs, even though I know I will hear almost nothing I agree with and read Macleans, when I get a chance.
 
Arrow
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RE: Ann Coulter's Canadian University Tour

Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:32 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 48):
Oblivion, she has written 7 best selling books, has a newspaper column and is paid $$$ for speeches?

She's not an item up here (or at least she wasn't) -- that's all I meant. I know she's got a huge following in the US, and I've listened to her many times on her various TV appearances. She's a wingnut -- but that's just my opinion. And she'd likely say the same about me. No biggie.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

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