JoeCanuck
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Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:50 pm

Here's the latest enlightened action from the Kingdom

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/10033.../lebanon_saudi_witchcraft_sentence

What I'm really curious about is the reaction of those who are usually so ready with, "Lawbreakers get what they deserve".

Make sure you don't accidentally practice witchcraft or sorcery.

Of course, maybe it's just a misunderstanding. Perhaps Saudis are just trying to get ahead...
What the...?
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:55 am

Folks, I have said it before and I have said again:

DO NOT TRAVEL TO COUNTRIES WITH QUESTIONABLE HUMAN RIGHTS RECORDS.

Most people travel through places like Dubai or S.A. without a problem. But you never know when it will be you who winds up locked in jail for no reason.
-Doc Lightning-

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OA412
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:06 am

Good lord! The article is a little vague on what the alleged witchcraft actually was other than to say he made predictions on Lebanese TV. Regardless, the fact that anyone would be beheaded in this day and age for practicing witchcraft is ridiculous. I realize that this is the law in Saudi Arabia, and it is one of many reasons why people should avoid visiting the place like the plague, but beheading for practicing witchcraft? I'm sorry, but no rational person can defend this.
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BMI727
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:30 am

This is a very simple matter: their country, their rules. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but unless you want to fight another war and do another expensive round of nation building while paying $6.00 a gallon for gas there isn't much that can be done about it.

I'm sure that I'll be called a bad guy (and possibly justifiably) for saying this, but it is the truth. A guy getting whacked in Saudi Arabia for practicing witchcraft is less important to me than cheap gas. For what it is worth, the international community is talking on this guy's behalf, but since none of them appear to be playing hardball, it seems that they agree with me.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
DO NOT TRAVEL TO COUNTRIES WITH QUESTIONABLE HUMAN RIGHTS RECORDS.

Any attempt to enforce a universal morality will result in tyranny, but your point remains that if you don't like the laws don't go. I'm sure that somewhere in the Middle East somebody does not agree that women should be able to show their legs in public, which is fine as long as they don't come here and start screaming about it (or setting off bombs) I don't care.
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JoeCanuck
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:03 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):

Less than 25% of oil used in the US comes from the middle east, and not all of that is from Saudi. Just think of the savings if the US got the hell out of the middle east altogether. The tax savings would more than make up for a 25% increase in the price of gasoline.
What the...?
 
baroque
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:08 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Thread starter):
Make sure you don't accidentally practice witchcraft or sorcery.
Quoting OA412 (Reply 2):
The article is a little vague on what the alleged witchcraft actually was other than to say he made predictions on Lebanese TV. Regardless, the fact that anyone would be beheaded in this day and age for practicing witchcraft is ridiculous. I realize that this is the law in Saudi Arabia, and it is one of many reasons why people should avoid visiting the place like the plague, but beheading for practicing witchcraft? I'm sorry, but no rational person can defend this.

I know it is not at all funny, but if the Saudis really believed in sorcery, should they not be concerned he would take his revenge on them locked up and all.

SO, assuming they don't really believe in the charge, why in hell are they wanting to behead him? My guess it is something else, and we will never get to know what it really is.

Message: Have a care going on the Haj if the Saudis don't get you the CIA likely will.   
 
BMI727
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:08 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 4):
Less than 25% of oil used in the US comes from the middle east, and not all of that is from Saudi. Just think of the savings if the US got the hell out of the middle east altogether. The tax savings would more than make up for a 25% increase in the price of gasoline.

I'm not looking at hard numbers, just making general statements regarding the situation. The point is that there is little anyone can do about it and that like it or not, this guy's life is not worth a major international incident.
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OA412
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:23 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 5):
I know it is not at all funny, but if the Saudis really believed in sorcery, should they not be concerned he would take his revenge on them locked up and all.

LOL, you do have a point there.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 5):
My guess it is something else, and we will never get to know what it really is.

That's more than likely the correct answer.
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us330
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:50 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 5):
I know it is not at all funny, but if the Saudis really believed in sorcery, should they not be concerned he would take his revenge on them locked up and all.

It's not funny, but it is an interesting point.What were to happen if the guy was accused of using ESP or telekinesis? How would the Saudis prevent the suspect from conducting such activities behind bars?
 
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casinterest
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:06 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 7):
That's more than likely the correct answer

Doubtful. This man entered Saudi Arabia for the Haj, which is a Muslim Religious practice. A very holy pilgrimage required of all able bodies Muslims once in their lifetime. This person was born a muslim and "admitted to" practicing sorcery. This is apostasy. By Saudi Law it is punishable by death.
Perhaps the high courts will step in, but I doubt it. Saudi's do not believe in freedom of religion. There is no open practicing of other faiths in public.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
This is a very simple matter: their country, their rules. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but unless you want to fight another war and do another expensive round of nation building while paying $6.00 a gallon for gas there isn't much that can be done about it.

Yep and this is why you won't see the US making a big deal about it. We want their oil regardless of how backwards and anti human rights their society seems to be for current western society. This episode reminds me of the Salem Witch Trials of the 1600's

Really sad conduct considering the ramifications it has on the stability of the region and other countries in the vicinity.

[Edited 2010-03-31 21:12:33]

[Edited 2010-03-31 21:27:32]
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BMI727
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:33 am

Quoting casInterest (Reply 9):
We want their oil regardless of how backwards and anti human rights their society seems to be for current western society.

What can the US or any other country do about it? Keeping in mind the other ramifications of any action is it really worth it for one guy? No it isn't.

Sucks for him but there won't be any major action from the international community because one guy is not worth upsetting the apple cart over.
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casinterest
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:39 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
because one guy is not worth upsetting the apple cart over.

Sad thing is ,when it comes to Human rights in Saudi Arabia, millions of folks are getting the shaft. But then again they choose to live and travel there.
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OA412
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:46 am

Quoting casInterest (Reply 11):
Sad thing is ,when it comes to Human rights in Saudi Arabia, millions of folks are getting the shaft.

Sad, but true. Even worse is the fact that the West has turned a blind eye due to Saudi Arabia's oil reserves.
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JoeCanuck
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:09 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 12):
Sad, but true. Even worse is the fact that the West has turned a blind eye due to Saudi Arabia's oil reserves.

Human rights are only something to trot out when some politician needs to pretend that they care. Remember post Rwanda genocide...? "NEVER AGAIN...!" was the vow from the UN and every righteous nation on the globe. Darfur, Zimbabwe, New Orleans and Myanmar prove that any concern for human rights is lip service, nothing more.

The US, for example, refuses to deal with Castro because he runs a Commie government in Cuba yet they deal with China because they say that dealing with China is the only way to lead them out of totalitarianism. Sound hypocritical? That's only because Cuba can't fill walmart with cheap consumer goods.

Iran is terrible because of their draconian government but Saudi is ok because of their much more draconian government.

Human rights will forever be nothing more than a pawn in the game of international trade. The human condition only matters as long as it isn't inconvenient.
What the...?
 
tu204
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:19 am

This is b.s. As far I am concerned he did not break any laws IN Saudi Arabia. He made forecasts IN LEBANON not in SAUDI ARABIA. This way any polititians or scientists that participate in talk shows or on the news can be beheaded in Saudi. And the "dont travel to these places" bit doesn't work here. Every muslim who is able to must complete the Hajj...to Mecca, Saudi Arabia. I hope King Abdullah gets involved and stops this from happening.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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OA412
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:32 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
Human rights are only something to trot out when some politician needs to pretend that they care. Remember post Rwanda genocide...? "NEVER AGAIN...!" was the vow from the UN and every righteous nation on the globe. Darfur, Zimbabwe, New Orleans and Myanmar prove that any concern for human rights is lip service, nothing more.

  

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
The US, for example, refuses to deal with Castro because he runs a Commie government in Cuba yet they deal with China because they say that dealing with China is the only way to lead them out of totalitarianism. Sound hypocritical? That's only because Cuba can't fill walmart with cheap consumer goods.

Exactly. Abhorrent human rights abuses and sweatshops are awful until we can buy 2 t-shirts for $10 at Walmart, then it's all A-OK.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
Iran is terrible because of their draconian government but Saudi is ok because of their much more draconian government.

As many of us have said repeatedly, if the Bush Administration really wanted to bring about regime change in the Middle East, they should have started with Saudi Arabia.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
Human rights will forever be nothing more than a pawn in the game of international trade. The human condition only matters as long as it isn't inconvenient.

  
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BMI727
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:36 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 15):
As many of us have said repeatedly, if the Bush Administration really wanted to bring about regime change in the Middle East, they should have started with Saudi Arabia.

That is a bit funny considering who the biggest fan of regime change in Saudi Arabia is.
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:38 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 15):
As many of us have said repeatedly, if the Bush Administration really wanted to bring about regime change in the Middle East, they should have started with Saudi Arabia

Why? Did any Saudi complains about the regime? People here know the laws and accept it, it could be wrong or right, but it is there. And who made Bush in charge of changing regimes in the world? And what kind of regime he will replace it with? If anything like Iraq then thanks but no thanks.
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JoeCanuck
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:03 am

I think the US should get out of the regime change business altogether. Let the middle east take care of itself. They'll save trillions of dollars and if they aren't overseas extending their influence, they'll easily save the oil they currently get from the gulf.

Forget Iran, Iraq, Saudi...the whole lot. Let them sort it out for themselves. Eventually, Iran and Iraq will form a power base and nobody else will have the military will or power to resist them.

The Persian Shias have always thought that they should have control of Mecca, not the Wahhabis. Saudi would be overrun in weeks. Actually, they'd just cut their own capitulation deal but that's much the same thing.

The only thing the countries of the middle east have in common is their hatred of Israel. On the other hand, they've only had that enemy for 60 years. They've had blood feuds with each other for centuries.

Pull out and wait a few years. When the dust settles, quit pretending anyone really cares about the losers, make a deal with the winner and count the cash you'll save.

There is no winning in the Middle east for the US. The sooner they realise that, the better off we'll all be.
What the...?
 
BMI727
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:12 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 18):
Let the middle east take care of itself. They'll save trillions of dollars and if they aren't overseas extending their influence, they'll easily save the oil they currently get from the gulf.

..as long as we can ensure that we have an adequate supply of oil, though not necessarily from that region. I'll admit, I fall somewhere on the realist side of the spectrum, but America does have to look out for number one.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 18):
The only thing the countries of the middle east have in common is their hatred of Israel. On the other hand, they've only had that enemy for 60 years. They've had blood feuds with each other for centuries.

  
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baroque
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:18 am

Quoting US330 (Reply 8):
.What were to happen if the guy was accused of using ESP or telekinesis? How would the Saudis prevent the suspect from conducting such activities behind bars?

A few possible answers.
1. They don't really think he does anything (most likely)
2. They think THEIR telekinesis and ESP are more powerful than his - odd but possible.
3. He may indeed work his wonders and bring the metaphorical temple crashing down on their collective heads. But I will not hold my breath waiting for that.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
Quoting OA412 (Reply 15):
As many of us have said repeatedly, if the Bush Administration really wanted to bring about regime change in the Middle East, they should have started with Saudi Arabia.

That is a bit funny considering who the biggest fan of regime change in Saudi Arabia is.

Yes, that is rather ironical. But not funny ha ha, more funny peculiar.
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:52 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 18):
Eventually, Iran and Iraq will form a power base and nobody else will have the military will or power to resist them.

Wishful thinking but why did you take Sunni Turkey out of this? Iran will not be welcomed in our area, as for Iraq well few years will not be enough after what it went through. So if i was on your shoes i will not held my breath.
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PanHAM
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:09 am

They should give the man a fair chance, like it was done in the medieval times in Europe. Throw him into a river, if he floats, he's guilty, if he drowns, he's innocent.
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airxliban
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:08 pm

Call me a cynic, but I think the fact that this guy's name is Ali Hussein probably has something to do with why they decided to err on the side of beheading the poor man for a "crime" (undefined) which he committed outside of KSA.

If his name was Abdulaziz Al-Alshaikh I doubt they would be doing this, or if he was an American.

Yes...feel free to point out that they beheaded an Egyptian for a similar charge in 2007. I stand by my statement. I appeal to the better judgment of the relevant authorities to drop the charges.
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JoeCanuck
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:30 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 21):
Iran will not be welcomed in our area,

Who says they'd wait to be invited? If Iran wanted in, there's not much the Saudis could do about it except get the US to help them fend off the Persians.
What the...?
 
HKA
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:41 am

witchcraft though forbbiden in Islam, does not carry death penalty. The saudis are over reacting. The guy will most likey get some jail term
 
MoltenRock
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:19 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
DO NOT TRAVEL TO COUNTRIES WITH QUESTIONABLE HUMAN RIGHTS RECORDS.

One could also go to the next step, and refuse to buy/use any products produced there.... ie, oil/petro goods. But that would take a little bit of effort, hence why it's easier to just send someone else to fight endless wars there to keep up the free flow of "cheap gas". Ya know?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
I'm sure that I'll be called a bad guy (and possibly justifiably) for saying this, but it is the truth. A guy getting whacked in Saudi Arabia for practicing witchcraft is less important to me than cheap gas.

There is no such thing as "cheap" gas. It's just a resource that the US govt subsidizes as one giant welfare program of wealth redistribution. The House of Saud thanks you and happy you feel as you do.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 12):
Sad, but true. Even worse is the fact that the West has turned a blind eye due to Saudi Arabia's oil reserves.

Of course they have. Just look at the rhetoric that a.net has when it comes to the US's new Energy Reform Bill winding its way thru the legislative system. And yet those same people who whine about any restrictions on their "right" to waste it as they see fit also demonize and condemn China for buying oil from Iran. As if there is any difference in real terms from Iran to Saudi Arabia from a global perspective on oil extraction.

*shrug*
 
ramzi
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:28 pm

Quote:
Lebanese citizen saved from beheading, for now…



Have you ever had your palm read or consulted a fortuneteller? If you have, according to judges in Saudi Arabia, you have violated Islamic law, a crime punishable by death.

Death was, and still could be, the fate of Ali Hussain Sabat, a Lebanese national from Al-Ein, a town located between Baalbek and Hermel in eastern Lebanon. A religious Shia, Hussein travelled to Saudi Arabia in 2008 with one of his sons to perform a religious pilgrimage known as umra, when he was arrested by Saudi’s religious police, the Mutawaeen.

His crime was amusing people, and predicting their futures, for good or for bad. Sabat hosted a popular television show in Lebanon in which he offered callers advice and read into their futures. The show was so well known that his lawyer, May el-Khansa, believes the Mutawaeen recognized Sabat from the program, which aired across the Middle East.

In 2009, following his arrest and detention, a Medina court gave him the death penalty for practicing sorcery. There is no legal definition of witchcraft in Saudi Arabia, but horoscopes and fortune telling are condemned as against Islam. Sabat launched an appeal, but just last month the appeal was rejected and the death sentence upheld.

On Tuesday, Khansa got word that the execution was to be carried out within 48 hours, by the end of the working week in Saudi Arabia. Media outlets, which had been loosely following the case, ramped up coverage, and human rights groups begged the Saudi government to exercise mercy. Khansa herself asked the Lebanese government to intervene, as did Sabat’s family.

“The family is in a very bad situation. His mother is sick and dying, all of the house is crying,” she told NOW Lebanon.

Friday morning, they were able to breathe a slight sigh of relief, as news trickled in that the Saudi government had issued a stay of execution. But the details of Sabat’s condition are still sketchy, due to the secretive nature of the Saudi court system.

“I cannot contact him directly; I can only contact him through Lebanon’s embassy in Riyadh, through diplomatic channels,” said Khansa, who is based in Lebanon.

Human rights group Amnesty International has been on the case since the beginning, and is urging Saudi authorities to release Sabat immediately and unconditionally, “if he has been convicted solely for the peaceful exercise of his right to freedom of expression,” according to a statement from the group.

But that is the larger question: was the sentence just for sorcery, considered a misdemeanor in Sabat’s home country, or do the Saudis have other, larger issues with Sabat? Lamri Chirouf, a researcher at Amnesty International, says it is impossible to know.

“The Saudi justice system is very secretive. Often the prisoners themselves don’t know what is happening until that day. We don’t know if there’s another story. The judgment just refers to acts of sorcery, but it didn’t say what the acts were supposed to be. I don’t know if they caught some [astrology-related] books with him,” he said.

The system in Saudi Arabia is not only secretive, it’s haphazard, as there is no law stating which crimes deserve capital punishment and which do not.

“It’s always left to the judges to decide whether an offense is a capital punishment or not. Many other people have been arrested for sorcery, but it wasn’t seen by the judges as seriously as this case, and the courts are not open,” said Chirouf.

What is known, however, is Saudi judges’ penchant for giving the death penalty. More than 100 people were executed in 2007 and 2008. In 2009, 69 people are known to have been executed, including 19 foreigners. If Sabat were to meet the same fate, he would be the ninth this year. Executions are usually done by be-heading, and as a means of deterrence, they are often carried out in public squares.

The death penalty is also legal in Lebanon, but rarely used, and is carried out through shooting or hanging. Recently, some politicians have called for it to be abolished altogether.

Urging Lebanese politicians to look after one of their own nationals, Khansa took the family’s pleas to the innermost political sphere in Lebanon on Thursday, asking President Michel Sleiman and Prime Minister Saad Hariri, both of whom maintain good relations with Saudi Arabia, to step in. She says they did intervene, and that Hariri gave his word to Sabat’s wife that he would save her husband’s life – a promise that, so far, he has managed to keep. Lebanese Minister of Justice Ibrahim Najjar also stepped in, issuing a statement on the matter and asking the Saudi government for mercy.
“I know that the Lebanese officials have been pointing out that the Saudis would be welcomed if they suspended any measure in this regard,” he told NOW Lebanon. “I’m using the word ‘suspend’,” he added.

While family and friends are grateful for their leaders’ last-minute efforts, they question whether Lebanon’s influence with the Saudi government is strong enough to ensure Sabat’s release, and if so, how much political capital they are willing to use to get him off of death row.
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wn700driver
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:52 am

So what constitutes socery?

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 17):
Why? Did any Saudi complains about the regime? People here know the laws and accept it, it could be wrong or right, but it is there. And who made Bush in charge of changing regimes in the world? And what kind of regime he will replace it with? If anything like Iraq then thanks but no thanks.

Iraq is a lot better than what you have. The money isn't there, and the chaos certainly is. But a job could at least pay me enough to work there. As for SA??? Forget it. I wouldn't even look at that place, let alone visit. . .

People there accept the laws because they are born into it, and the penalty for ignorance is a relatively savage . No legitimacy there. . .
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BMI727
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:39 am

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 28):
People there accept the laws because they are born into it, and the penalty for ignorance is a relatively savage . No legitimacy there. . .

So are you saying that someone should intervene and remove the Sauds?
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SOBHI51
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:51 am

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 28):
Iraq is a lot better than what you have.

You must be kiding.

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 28):
Forget it. I wouldn't even look at that place, let alone visit. . .

Great then don't. People critisize countries they know nothing about, never visited and never even mingled with the people of that country, there opinion does really not count.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:52 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 30):
Great then don't. People critisize countries they know nothing about, never visited and never even mingled with the people of that country, there opinion does really not count.

bit hard to know anything about the KSA when its near on impossible to go there as a tourist...
 
MoltenRock
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:10 am

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 28):

Iraq is a lot better than what you have. The money isn't there, and the chaos certainly is. But a job could at least pay me enough to work there. As for SA??? Forget it. I wouldn't even look at that place, let alone visit. . .

Look I'm no fan of SA, but you're being a bit over the top. Iraq is extremely violent still, and as an American you have more to fear in Iraq than you would in SA. Iraq is an economic basket case with violence of massive proportions for average citizens trying to go about their lives. SA has one of the lowest murder rates in the world, alongside Japan, Hong Kong, Switzerland and other well known safe countries.

Purchasing Power Parity In Region

Qatar $58,004
Kuwait $40,826
United Arab Emirates $29,063
Saudi Arabia $23,928
Bahrain $23,702
Oman $23,652
Libya $16,431
Iran $11,748
Lebanon $10,742
Algeria $8,344
Tunisia $7,894
Egypt $5,689
Jordan $5,051
Syria $4,763
Morocco $4,405
IRAQ $3,880
Yemen $2,290


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:21 am

Quoting qantas077 (Reply 31):
bit hard to know anything about the KSA when its near on impossible to go there as a tourist...

Yes you can and there is few things to see here. Come with an open mind you will be wellcomed.
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directorguy
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:11 am

I really am appalled that a non-Saudi national is being executed for 'sorcery' because he gave predictions. Sorcery-or more accurately superstition is alive and well in the region. In Saudi Arabia, you get sheikhs with their own TV programs who interpret dreams, that sort of thing. Admittedly, all this has an Islamic 'element' to it. Many people still consult soothesayers, who I suspect milk money from unsuspecting victims. If this Lebanese fellow is going to be beheaded for 'sorcery', then those people should also be brought to question.
Saudi Arabia would have a right to deny the Lebanese fellow an entry visa, even if it's a religious tourism (hajj/umra) visa. But to execute a man based on their definition on who is and isn't a Muslim does not go down with me.
I recognise the Saudi Arabian government's right to its own laws-my family and I were quite happy to abide by them for 14 years-but in this case the government is trespassing on grounds where it has absolutely no authority. The only being permitted to condemn an apostate is God. Sharia law does not recognise the Saudi Arabian government as the celestial kingdom's deputy on earth, and the Saudi government should be concerned with its own citizens, not the spiritual well-being of all the Muslims on earth.
 
Dahlgardo
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:51 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 33):
Yes you can and there is few things to see here. Come with an open mind you will be wellcomed.

Yeah right...what if I'm Jew...or homosexual ?

Come on...any legal system that can convict a person for doing sorcery (!) should be rediculed in the entire world.
It is really beyond any reason. But hey, that's religion in a nutshell.
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
Rj111
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:48 pm

If SA want that rule they are entitled to it, but i don't believe they should be arresting people for doing things outside of their jurisdiction.
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:31 pm

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 35):
But hey, that's religion in a nutshell.

Yeh i know, remember not only one religion excuted sorceres.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
Dahlgardo
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:07 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 37):
Yeh i know, remember not only one religion excuted sorceres.

Exectly! That IS religion in a nutshell.
I'm not bashing any particular religion, but any religion.
Being able to criticise and question religion is the only way to reformation, and that is something Islam definitely needs to go through.Christianity went through that centuries ago.
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
BMI727
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:25 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 33):
Come with an open mind you will be wellcomed.

...but you have to follow the local laws, just like anywhere else.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:10 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 37):
Yeh i know, remember not only one religion excuted sorceres.

But how many have done so in the past century?
What the...?
 
wn700driver
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:35 pm

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 32):
Look I'm no fan of SA, but you're being a bit over the top.

Nope. Wouldn't go there. Ever. That dictatorship gets too much of our money as it is. As for Iraq, if I were a contractor making a good amount of money, at a relatively secure base, why not?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 29):
So are you saying that someone should intervene and remove the Sauds?

No. But we really need to stop sending them any sort of money. There is, after all, oil to be found elsewhere. In any case, as has already been said, we can make all the fuss in the world about Iran, but some reason, SA, which is worse, gets a free pass. We need to stop supporting that.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 30):
Great then don't. People critisize countries they know nothing about, never visited and never even mingled with the people of that country, there opinion does really not count.

I know plenty, thank you very much. And that is enough for me. I know people who are both saudi nationals, and contractos who've worked there. Neither were particularly eager to return.



This issue is abhorrent because it is merely symptomatic of the "justice" system there. It's not terrible because it's happening, but because that is a "normal" event over there.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 30):
You must be kiding

Nope. As I said, I'll take Iraq first.
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:48 pm

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 35):
Yeah right...what if I'm Jew...or homosexual ?

Does your passport state that your are jewish and a homo? If you don't tell them I don't see what your problem is.
 
Dahlgardo
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:22 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 42):
Does your passport state that your are jewish and a homo? If you don't tell them I don't see what your problem is.

You're missing the point.

Say, if you were a Jew, would you lie about your faith/ethnicticity if asked by someone in Saudi Arabia ?
I guess you would.

Would you feel welcome as a Jew in Saudi Arabia ?
I guess you wouldn't
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
ajd1992
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:28 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 42):
Does your passport state that your are jewish and a homo? If you don't tell them I don't see what your problem is.

If you're an Israeli citizen then It doesn't have to. The chances are if you're Israeli - you're Jewish.

If you don't like the way certain customs work - don't visit. If you are a gay Jew then why would you want to visit a country that doesn't agree with it in the first place? It's like visiting the UK and disliking the Royal Family or tea or something else that's 100% British...

From what I've read, heard and seen (and this is 100% opinion) I wouldn't visit most of the middle east in the first place. I'm not a gay Jew who's employed by the Mossad either - I'm a white, atheist, bisexual but admittedly very straight acting guy. I wouldn't visit unless you paid me. I wouldn't even transit there. The human rights are pathetic. There are stories of Westerners being raped and then being charged with sex outside of marriage in the UAE - the most liberal of the Middle East (maybe Israel is more liberal, who knows). God knows what the Saudi law system would do to you. Wait... they'll chop your hands off, hang you off a crane or chop your head off.

I don't like that so I won't visit. Simple.

I'll stay in my shitty town in the North of England, thanks.

(By the way, "homo" is a little bit of an offensive way of putting it. It's paramount to calling a Pakistani a "Paki". I'm not trying to be a massive dick, I'm just saying)

[Edited 2010-04-04 16:09:02]
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:43 pm

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 43):
Would you feel welcome as a Jew in Saudi Arabia ?
I guess you wouldn't

YES. Since the Madrid conference there are no barriers for Jews to come to the Kingdom.

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 41):
Nope. As I said, I'll take Iraq first.

Over the years thosands of Americans and westerners came and worked in the Kingdom. They made a lot of money and they still do. They are much safer here than in Iraq. But as i said before you do not want to come here fine i see nobody begging you. You feel safer in Iraq fine go there and take your chances with your blonde hair you will be an easy target.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
airxliban
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:04 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 42):
Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 35):
Yeah right...what if I'm Jew...or homosexual ?

Does your passport state that your are jewish and a homo? If you don't tell them I don't see what your problem is.

Guys, take it from someone who has 8 Saudi visas in his passport and has spent a total of 21 months in the desert kingdom over the last 4 years...the visa application specifies that the following groups of people may not apply for a visa:

1. Israeli passport holders
2. People with Israeli stamps in their passport
3. Jewish people

I see these instructions everytime I apply for a visa (if you're Jewish and you want to go, you just don't put your religion or you put Christian, it's as simple as that).

Also, you have to sign a form saying that you will abide by the laws of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia while you are in country else punishable by DEATH (and death is actually capitalised).
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:15 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 37):
Yeh i know, remember not only one religion excuted sorceres.

The majority of that was during and shortly after a period commonly known as the Dark Ages, perhaps it is time for a little Renaissance in "the Kingdom"
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:29 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 33):
Yes you can and there is few things to see here. Come with an open mind you will be wellcomed.

believe me, I'd have been there by now if it wasn't so difficult.

http://www.mofa.gov.sa/Detail.asp?InSectionID=4343&InNewsItemID=45759
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft

Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:57 am

Quoting Airxliban (Reply 46):
3. Jewish people

Can not find this on the application. It just asks your religion.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam

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