herctech
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What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:28 am

Simple question, really. This has has been a standard practice since the US was first founded. Yet for the first time that I can personally remember there has been serious opposition to the census.

Why is this?

It seems that the most opposition is coming fom those who strongly oppose the current administration, so is this another one of those "we distrust the Obama administration and it's socialst/communist/Marxist ways" or is there actually something that should be of genuine concern?
 
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DocLightning
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:12 am

The Census is in the Constitution. Those who wrapped themselves so tightly in it are now opposing it.
-Doc Lightning-

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fr8mech
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:42 am

I don't thnk it's the Census per se that's the problem. It's the questions. The Constitution calls for an actual enumeration, as I recall. Why ask for race, income, housing status, etc.? I could understand the race question back when The Constitution was ratified (due to the 3/5's nonsense, well not really nonsense in application, but dispicable, nonetheless), but why now? What do these questions really matter?

Quoting HercTech (Thread starter):
Yet for the first time that I can personally remember there has been serious opposition to the census.

There were some of the same rumblings in 2000. As I recall, the Census was even more intrusive.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
Those who wrapped themselves so tightly in it are now opposing it.

Again, no opposition to The Census, just the nature of some of the questions.

[Edited 2010-04-02 01:50:13]
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flynlr
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:55 am

I did fill out the census as required by law , but the racial info I told em to eff off. all the other info asked for is important for genealogy so I had no problem with,. but it seemed the focus of the questions was race. so I put American
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OA412
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:02 am

I've never understood the opposition either. I often hear people say that the government doesn't have any business knowing the answers to the questions asked on the census form. Hate to break it to everyone, but the government already has most of that info.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 2):
Why ask for race

Why not? How else are they going to determine an accurate minority population?

Quoting flynlr (Reply 3):
but the racial info I told em to eff off

Again why? How else is the government going to get an accurate count of the different minorities residing in this county? Besides, what's so bad about asking for someone's race?
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ltbewr
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:34 am

As the Census questionaire asks for info for each person residing in a household including full names, birthdates and race, all very sensitive subjects. From issues of idenity theft, a fear by some that such info can be used against them, that it is an invasion of privacy, fear of government, that race is a question all raise objections to wanting to respond by some.

If you are illegally in the USA, there is a fear of the government coming in and taking you away using Census info. If you are illegally sharing a home or apartment, you may fear that local government may take you away and make you homeless. Many don't want to disclose their race and a signifcant number of white people feel that the race info is used to take tax monies from them and give it to programs more benefiting those who are persons of color. The 'race' question is also very badly done, failing to recognize those of mixed race, like Tiger Woods.
 
HOMER71
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:09 am

Quoting HercTech (Thread starter):
It seems that the most opposition is coming fom those who strongly oppose the current administration, so is this another one of those "we distrust the Obama administration and it's socialst/communist/Marxist ways" or is there actually something that should be of genuine concern?

Didn't the Obama administration want to change it so that the U.S. Census report directly to the White House (instead of Dept of Commerce) last year? Did they go through with it?

If it's true, there might be opposition because of the fear that Obama might influence redistricting to favor Democrats.

Oh, well, I already completed/mailed my census form: 2 1/2 minutes, big whoop
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falstaff
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:41 pm

Quoting HercTech (Thread starter):
It seems that the most opposition is coming fom those who strongly oppose the current administration, so is this another one of those "we distrust the Obama administration and it's socialst/communist/Marxist ways" or is there actually something that should be of genuine concern?
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
Those who wrapped themselves so tightly in it are now opposing it.

I have met several black people from Detroit who are all upset that the form uses the word negro. Two of these women say they will not send in their form and will wait until somebody comes and counts them. I am working on another degree at the University of Detroit and we had a very lively discussion in class about the census. Every person in the class who said they were not filling it out was black. I was only person in class who did not vote for Obama

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 2):
There were some of the same rumblings in 2000. As I recall, the Census was even more intrusive.

My dad was a census worker in 2000. he counted some of the most difficult people to count, like people in group homes, nuns in convents, the mentally handicapped, etc. Dad never ran into trouble, but he knew people who did, usually in low income areas, regardless of the race involved.

I filled out my form the day it came and I mailed it the next day.
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TLG
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:23 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 7):
I filled out my form the day it came and I mailed it the next day.
Quoting homer71 (Reply 6):
Oh, well, I already completed/mailed my census form: 2 1/2 minutes, big whoop

Same here!

Quoting flynlr (Reply 3):
I did fill out the census as required by law , but the racial info I told em to eff off.

Why? I have no idea what your race is, but are you ashamed of it?

-TLG
 
mt99
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:25 pm

Quoting flynlr (Reply 3):
but it seemed the focus of the questions was race. so I put American

Is "American" a race?
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JakeOrion
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:30 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 4):
Again why? How else is the government going to get an accurate count of the different minorities residing in this county? Besides, what's so bad about asking for someone's race?

Because I don't care about race. I see you as American. Even if your skin is purple and you have a dozen arms, you are an American to me. That should be all that matters.

The Census should be nothing more than a head count, nothing else.
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fr8mech
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:30 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 4):
How else are they going to determine an accurate minority population?

To what end? Why is it necessary to know how many minorities live in a certain community?

Quoting flynlr (Reply 3):
asked for is important for genealogy

Which questions are those? And where in The Constitution does it say say this is for geneology purposes? The reason for the census is so that we know how many people need representation in The House.

And what of the American Community Survey? A sample of the population received that one and its response is required by law also. That one is way too intrusive and I again fail to see its Constitutional purpose.

[Edited 2010-04-02 07:32:21]
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mbmbos
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:37 pm

Here's an interesting link on Bachmann's effort to boycott the census: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/wash...ensus-hurting-their-own-cause.html
 
MarSciGuy
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:45 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 4):
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 2):
Why ask for race

Why not? How else are they going to determine an accurate minority population?

  

For one there is all sorts of federal money that is targetted at minority communities (and has been for decades...) I suppose for those who wish we were still in the "melting pot society means no one can retain their original culture" stage of our history this must be upsetting...

Just as Mr. Rove had success with micro-targetting in polling and political messages (whether right or wrong), knowing where the money needs to be spent can help the government significantly as well.

The "American" racial choice may actually cost the census money by forcing someone to come out and get a more accurate description - way to go at keeping the deficit down!
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fr8mech
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:50 pm

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 12):
Here's an interesting link on Bachmann's effort to boycott the census

Actually, it's an effort to boycott all but the questins on the actual count. The "actual enumeration."

"not to fill out any information on the 2010 census except for the question that asks how many people reside in each household"

Her concern is a bit extreme and not what I've come to expect from Bachmann. Maybe playing to Beck's slightly more extreme than the norm audience? If that's the case, it's a mistake.
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fr8mech
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:52 pm

Quoting MarSciGuy (Reply 13):
For one there is all sorts of federal money that is targetted at minority communities (and has been for decades...) I suppose for those who wish we were still in the "melting pot society means no one can retain their original culture" stage of our history this must be upsetting...

So, it's discriminatory in nature? More money going to minority communities that 'white' communities? I understand.
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DocLightning
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:10 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 7):

I have met several black people from Detroit who are all upset that the form uses the word negro.

Then they need to get over it because it includes a bunch of other words for it, too. And I hear Black people using that word all the time, usually in a joking way, but they use it. They also use a worse N-word.
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mayor
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:23 pm

Quoting Ltbewr (Reply 5):
failing to recognize those of mixed race, like Tiger Woods.

Or the President.  



My only opposition to the Census is not the Census, itself, but to all the money being spent on TV adds and mailers to the population. A week before I got my Census form, I received a letter telling me it was coming and a week after I got the form and sent it in, I got a postcard reminding me to do just that.
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BMI727
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:33 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 4):
Hate to break it to everyone, but the government already has most of that info.

They just have to know where to look. I don't know where the outrage comes from...boredom maybe?

Quoting Ltbewr (Reply 5):
If you are illegally in the USA, there is a fear of the government coming in and taking you away using Census info. If you are illegally sharing a home or apartment, you may fear that local government may take you away and make you homeless.

Well the workaround for that is to not do anything illegal.

Quoting mayor (Reply 17):
but to all the money being spent on TV adds and mailers to the population.

Those are some horrible commercials.
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mNeo
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:34 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 7):
I have met several black people from Detroit who are all upset that the form uses the word negro.

To the defense of the government, it was ether black or negro and no matter what they put someone would have gotten upset. People have to realize that African American is not a race it is a heritage. There are plenty of white african americans and plenty of blacks who are not from Africa.

I have a family member that works as a contractor to the census(for database security) and the information is stored in one of the few database locations in the US that meet the highest government security tests. The chance of a hacker getting Census information is the same as one getting the plans for the B2 bombers(Harris and Lockheed Martin are responsible for the databases)

In the end, the census gives a snapshot of the US as it stands today. In 10/20 years when other censuses are preformed we would be able to see movement of different races, increases/decreases in them. It provides good statistical data for how the country is developing. Race is a big factor and while it was not asked in the most elegant way, im surprised that people are so against it, as there are clear historical benefits for this.
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PacNWjet
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:36 pm

I used to figure that people who opposed the census were a bit paranoid until the federal government sent me the American Community Survey (ACS) a couple of years ago at which point my resentment level went through the roof. For those of you who don't know, the American Community Survey is "a nationwide survey designed to provide communities a fresh look at how they are changing. It is a critical element in the Census Bureau's reengineered decennial census program. The ACS collects and produces population and housing information every year instead of every ten years." source: http://www.census.gov/acs/www/

The ACS is without a doubt the most intrusive demand from the U.S. government I have ever received. I don't use the term "demand" lightly. The instructions that accompanied the form informed me that I was required by law to fill it out in its entirety and return it. Among the pieces of information collected in the survey are the following:

Age
Race
Gender
Date of birth
Marital status
Extent of formal education
Name of colleges or universities attended
Field majored in in college
Military service history
Type of health insurance
Physical or mental disabilities
Type of residence (when built, number of rooms, acreage, etc.)
How long person has lived in current residence
Amount spent on utilities
Current assessed value of residence
Real estate taxes on residence
Amount spent on home owners insurance for residence
Current mortgage payment on residence
Employment status
Type of job
Address of workplace
Distance to commute to work
Number of hours worked for the past 12 months
Income from salary, wages, tips, etc. (dollar amounts)
Income from interest and dividends (dollar amounts)
Other sources of income (dollar amounts)

Source: http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Downlo...0%29%20Stateside%20English_web.pdf

Now, here is the best part: You are required by law to put your name, address, and phone number on the survey That's right, after providing all sorts of information including detailed financial data, you are required to put your name on the form.

Now is it clear why some people get paranoid about the census?
 
474218
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:38 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 2):
The Constitution was ratified (due to the 3/5's nonsense, well not really nonsense in application, but dispicable, nonetheless), but why now? What do these questions really matter?

Counting the slaves as 3/5 of a citizen was done to equalize the number of congress districts a state would have and had nothing to do with race. If the slaves were counted 1 for 1 the slave states would have had more congressional districts than the non-slave states and therefore more power. The non-slave states were responsible for the 3/5 compromise not the slave states.

Quoting homer71 (Reply 6):
Oh, well, I already completed/mailed my census form: 2 1/2 minutes, big whoop
Quoting TLG (Reply 8):
Same here!

I hope you waited until 1 April to fill it out, if not you perjured yourselves.
 
kingairta
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:42 pm

For those who cry about privacy/identity theft etc take a look at your facebook/myspace or anything they post online.
 
pnqiad
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:45 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 21):
I hope you waited until 1 April to fill it out, if not you perjured yourselves.

You can't perjure if you aren't under oath. There is no oath / signature requirement on the census form.
 
mham001
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:02 pm

I heard an hour long radio interview with a census representative. Nobody has ever been prosecuted for not filling out the census.
He mentioned that this thing is good for business because for instance, the local grocery store could see the demographics and stock more rice if the Asian population was growing. Just one of his examples of why this is a good thing.

I have problems with providing my name and wonder why one of Obamas first acts after election was to wrestle control of the results to the White House. Something stinks there. I've considered telling them there are 20 Whites living here with head of household Donald Duck.
 
PacNWjet
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:10 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 24):
He mentioned that this thing is good for business because for instance, the local grocery store could see the demographics and stock more rice if the Asian population was growing. Just one of his examples of why this is a good thing.

This is a typical government view of things. No one can think for him or herself without the government helping out. Does the official in question really think that the owners of local grocery stores don't know who their clientele is comprised of? I live in a small town and I can guarantee you the local shops and markets here know a lot more about their customers than the government. As for large businesses in big cities, their market research is tailored to help them identify customers in a more targeted fashion than the blunt instrument approach of the federal government.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:17 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 2):
I don't thnk it's the Census per se that's the problem. It's the questions. The Constitution calls for an actual enumeration, as I recall. Why ask for race, income, housing status, etc.? I could understand the race question back when The Constitution was ratified (due to the 3/5's nonsense, well not really nonsense in application, but dispicable, nonetheless), but why now? What do these questions really matter?

Actually, the questions in this year's census mirrors almost exactly the same questions as the 1790 census - the first one mandated by the Constitution when the Founders had control.

I have no problem with it.
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fr8mech
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:17 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 21):
Counting the slaves as 3/5 of a citizen was done to equalize the number of congress districts a state would have and had nothing to do with race. If the slaves were counted 1 for 1 the slave states would have had more congressional districts than the non-slave states and therefore more power. The non-slave states were responsible for the 3/5 compromise not the slave states.

Absolutely correct, it was used to limit the power of the slave states. But it had everything to do with race...and slavery. Who were the slaves?

But why are the questions asked now, if not to use them as a basis of discrimination?

Quoting mNeo (Reply 19):
as there are clear historical benefits for this.

Really? What are the benefits?
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Boeing1970
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:32 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 4):
I've never understood the opposition either. I often hear people say that the government doesn't have any business knowing the answers to the questions asked on the census form. Hate to break it to everyone, but the government already has most of that info.

Then why ask for it again it?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 26):
Actually, the questions in this year's census mirrors almost exactly the same questions as the 1790 census - the first one mandated by the Constitution when the Founders had control.

Not even close.

Questions Asked on the 1790 Census

http://www.censusfinder.com/1790-census.htm

Questions asked in 2010 Census:

http://2010.census.gov/2010census/pdf/2010_Questionnaire_Info.pdf
 
fr8mech
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:39 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 26):
Actually, the questions in this year's census mirrors almost exactly the same questions as the 1790 census - the first one mandated by the Constitution when the Founders had control.

Even if they were similar (they aren't), why is it necessary to know the racial make-up of my household and by extension, my community?
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mayor
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:47 pm

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 20):

I don't think you are legally bound to do anything with this "American Community Survey" as it isn't the legal census as required by the Constitution, even though it is put out by the gov't.
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Yellowstone
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:52 pm

Quoting flynlr (Reply 3):
it seemed the focus of the questions was race. so I put American

So you're white.  
Quoting falstaff (Reply 7):
I have met several black people from Detroit who are all upset that the form uses the word negro.

Lots of elderly black people still self-identify as Negro; that's why that term is on the census form.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 7):
Every person in the class who said they were not filling it out was black.

Pretty foolish of them - odds are that if they're black residents of Detroit, they've probably got some governmental aid coming their way that they're not going to get if they aren't counted in the census.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 11):
To what end? Why is it necessary to know how many minorities live in a certain community?

If you find that minorities tend to reside in poorer communities (which they do), maybe it would prompt you to figure out why this is the case. A color-blind society is a nice ideal and all, but society isn't there yet, so the census that measures that society shouldn't be either.

Why you should fill out the census, even if you don't like it...

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PacNWjet
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:04 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 30):
I don't think you are legally bound to do anything with this "American Community Survey" as it isn't the legal census as required by the Constitution, even though it is put out by the gov't.

Wrong! Here is exactly what is stated at the U.S. Census Bureau website:

"The American Community Survey is a separate part of the 2010 Census program. Some households and group quarters (such as college residence halls, skilled nursing facilities, group homes, barracks, and correctional facilities) will receive both the American Community Survey and the 2010 Census this year. Response to both is required by law" [bold text added for emphasis].

Source: http://www.census.gov/acs/www/SBasics/acs_2010.htm

[Edited 2010-04-02 10:06:26]
 
fr8mech
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:19 pm

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 31):
Why you should fill out the census, even if you don't like it...

Didn't say I didn't fill it out. In fact, I encourage everyone to fill it out.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 31):
So you're white.

I'm hoping the smiley meant that statement was tongue in cheek.

A quote:

"Any man who carries a hyphen about him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready." - Woodrow Wilson

and another:

"There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else." - T. Roosevelt

Now, that's not to say that we leave our respective heritages behind, but we can not remin united if we keep self-identifying with a heritage that, in some cases, we haven't been a prt of in generations.
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mayor
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:21 pm

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 32):

Funny, I see nothing in the Constitution about an American Community Survey. The Constitution specifies which years the Census is to be held and 2008 isn't one of them. If they wanted to make it really legal, they should have held it this year, in conjunction with the Census.
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fr8mech
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:32 pm

Do I have to respond to the 2010 Census and the American Community Survey?
Yes.

The American Community Survey, which replaced the decennial census long form, has different questions and purposes than the 2010 Census population headcount. Your participation in both is vital and required by law. Data about how our communities are changing are crucial to many planning decisions that affect you—such as neighborhood improvements, emergency preparedness, transportation, senior services and much more.

http://www.census.gov/acs/www/SBasics/acs_2010_faq2.htm

Funny, though. Why don't federal websites that say something is required by law link the pertinent law in the CFR?
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slider
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:39 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 2):
I don't thnk it's the Census per se that's the problem. It's the questions. The Constitution calls for an actual enumeration, as I recall. Why ask for race, income, housing status, etc.? I could understand the race question back when The Constitution was ratified (due to the 3/5's nonsense, well not really nonsense in application, but dispicable, nonetheless), but why now? What do these questions really matter?

I concur. I’m a libertarian and conservative and believe in the core Constitutionality of the census. It’s a valuable tool. And for those who have been concerned about race, that’s been on there since 1796, as placed by our Founders. I see value in asking some of the other info, but to a limited degree.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
So, it's discriminatory in nature?



It can be. While PacNW below identifies the items collected, I would say that it can and is exploited, predominantly by bureaucrats. Race and economic trends are political footballs as we all know.

But for less perhaps nefarious purposes, transportation and urban planners use valuable census data for planning roads, schools, infrastructure, and can see migration of metro areas, and so forth. Good example: the elementary school in my subdivision was using trailers to supplement classrooms within 3 years of it being built. They knew the number of houses in the master planned community but underestimated the number of children per household. Given the infrequency and timing of the census, that specific problem wouldn’t have been avoided, but you can see how that data can be better mined to plan schools and such.

Census data is used by businesses that look at income levels for opening new stores, population densities, etc. Is that discriminatory? I’m sure in the connotation of the word, yes, but the business of America is business and that has value.

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 20):
The ACS is without a doubt the most intrusive demand from the U.S. government I have ever received. I don't use the term "demand" lightly. The instructions that accompanied the form informed me that I was required by law to fill it out in its entirety and return it. Among the pieces of information collected in the survey are the following:

Age
Race
Gender
Date of birth
Marital status
Extent of formal education
Name of colleges or universities attended
Field majored in in college
Military service history
Type of health insurance
Physical or mental disabilities
Type of residence (when built, number of rooms, acreage, etc.)
How long person has lived in current residence
Amount spent on utilities
Current assessed value of residence
Real estate taxes on residence
Amount spent on home owners insurance for residence
Current mortgage payment on residence
Employment status
Type of job
Address of workplace
Distance to commute to work
Number of hours worked for the past 12 months
Income from salary, wages, tips, etc. (dollar amounts)
Income from interest and dividends (dollar amounts)
Other sources of income (dollar amounts)

Source: http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Downlo...0%29%20Stateside%20English_web.pdf

Now, here is the best part: You are required by law to put your name, address, and phone number on the survey That's right, after providing all sorts of information including detailed financial data, you are required to put your name on the form.

Now is it clear why some people get paranoid about the census?

Absolutely agree with that. I can understand the legitimate fear some have in completing everything and in complying.

The government has NO need to know what my present mortgage payment is, or utility costs. Or a total breakdown of my income—that’s why we do our 1040s for crying out loud. They can pound sand on those questions, as well as type of health insurance, to which I’ll now answer “Obamacare.”
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:30 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 29):
Even if they were similar (they aren't), why is it necessary to know the racial make-up of my household and by extension, my community?

I agree that should go away. But it doesn't hurt much.

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 20):
The ACS is without a doubt the most intrusive demand from the U.S. government I have ever received. I don't use the term "demand" lightly. The instructions that accompanied the form informed me that I was required by law to fill it out in its entirety and return it. Among the pieces of information collected in the survey are the following:

Age
Race
Gender
Date of birth
Marital status
Extent of formal education
Name of colleges or universities attended
Field majored in in college
Military service history
Type of health insurance
Physical or mental disabilities
Type of residence (when built, number of rooms, acreage, etc.)
How long person has lived in current residence
Amount spent on utilities
Current assessed value of residence
Real estate taxes on residence
Amount spent on home owners insurance for residence
Current mortgage payment on residence
Employment status
Type of job
Address of workplace
Distance to commute to work
Number of hours worked for the past 12 months
Income from salary, wages, tips, etc. (dollar amounts)
Income from interest and dividends (dollar amounts)
Other sources of income (dollar amounts)

I remember that. All the parts asking about money issues etc, I wrote in black marker "NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS" and sent it in.. Never heard from them after that.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
474218
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:34 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 27):
Absolutely correct, it was used to limit the power of the slave states. But it had everything to do with race...and slavery. Who were the slaves?

The "Founding Fathers" would have had done the same 3/5 compromise of the slaves were Irish, Polish, etc.

Quoting PNQIAD (Reply 23):
You can't perjure if you aren't under oath. There is no oath / signature requirement on the census form.

You are correct. However, if you filled out the census form and returned it before 1 April you lied to the government.
 
fr8mech
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:10 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 38):

The "Founding Fathers" would have had done the same 3/5 compromise of the slaves were Irish, Polish, etc.

Probably, but today we would be arguning the validity of asking whether someone was of Irish or Polish decent. Six one way, half dozen the other. The questions on race do not belong anymore. They are an anachronism.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
474218
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:25 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 39):
Probably, but today we would be arguning the validity of asking whether someone was of Irish or Polish decent. Six one way, half dozen the other. The questions on race do not belong anymore. They are an anachronism.

How right you are. My wife and I are raising a mixed race niece and she is the love of our life.
 
PSA53
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:44 pm

Quoting HercTech (Thread starter):
What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

I don't object to the census.After the ACORN scandal,I question it's accuracy or maybe a correction is due.And I'm wondering about these census takers outside at major retailers and who they really represent.
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
N200WN
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:57 pm

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 20):
The ACS is without a doubt the most intrusive demand from the U.S. government I have ever received. I don't use the term "demand" lightly. The instructions that accompanied the form informed me that I was required by law to fill it out in its entirety and return it. Among the pieces of information collected in the survey are the following:

Thanks for posting the information about the ACS. I too received the form and refused to complete it. This prompted three visits to my house by a Census worker that almost refused to give up. I finally met her on the third visit and had to tell her three times that I had no interest in providing any information before I finally said "thank you" and closed the door. I don't care what the reasons are - the feds have no business asking the questions on the form.

Quoting mayor (Reply 30):
I don't think you are legally bound to do anything with this "American Community Survey" as it isn't the legal census as required by the Constitution, even though it is put out by the gov't.

My form stated the under US Law I must answer the question. Yeah whatever.

As for the census form, I have no problem with that one. But I will answer "Other - American" for the race question. Everyone I know has moved well beyond race as an issue. It's now the government that wants to divide us into groups - now THEY need to get over it. If anyone is a fan of NPR on facebook they posed this question as well. Most of the people making comments stated they would answer the same way.
 
MarSciGuy
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:19 pm

Quoting N200WN (Reply 42):
Yeah whatever.

In my opinion, selectively following the law, whichever one it is, is just as bad as blatantly violating the more important laws...
"There weren't a ton of gnats there where a ton of gnats and their families as well!"
 
fr8mech
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:32 pm

Quoting MarSciGuy (Reply 43):
In my opinion, selectively following the law, whichever one it is, is just as bad as blatantly violating the more important laws...

I would tend to agree, but we all speed, don't we?

I did some looking in the CFR and still couldn't find the requirement to take the ACS. But then again, I hate looking through the CFR. Anyone else find it?
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
PacNWjet
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:55 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 44):
I did some looking in the CFR and still couldn't find the requirement to take the ACS. But then again, I hate looking through the CFR. Anyone else find it?

Here you go:

TITLE 13 - CENSUS
CHAPTER 7 - OFFENSES AND PENALTIES
SUBCHAPTER II - OTHER PERSONS

-HEAD-
Sec. 221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

-STATUTE-
(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or
willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any
other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce
or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the
Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his
knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in
connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I,
II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to
the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or
farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not
more than $100.
(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a)
of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances
described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is
false, shall be fined not more than $500.
(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person
shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his
religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.

Source: United States Code: http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/13C7.txt
 
fr8mech
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:06 am

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 45):

Oh well, thanks. I guess when the attach the Census name t it, it becomes OK.

I wonder if the statute or, more specifically, the questions have been tested.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:13 am

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 45):
Here you go:

TITLE 13 - CENSUS
CHAPTER 7 - OFFENSES AND PENALTIES
SUBCHAPTER II - OTHER PERSONS

Frankly I don't give a crap. The government needs to know where people live to operate - no problem there. But it has no business about all the other crap - especially when the data is to be used in redistricting. Districts should be based on the number of people, full stop. Giving them all the other info allows them to gerrymander districts to favor whatever party is currently in control of the process. That's just wrong.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
474218
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:16 am

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 45):
Sec. 221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

Then everyone that filled out the Census form and turned it in before 1 April violated this section.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: What Is With All Of The Opposition To The Census?

Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:38 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 36):
The government has NO need to know what my present mortgage payment is, or utility costs. Or a total breakdown of my income—that’s why we do our 1040s for crying out loud. They can pound sand on those questions, as well as type of health insurance, to which I’ll now answer “Obamacare.”

Well, you can relax, because you obviously haven't opened your census envelope yet. In fact, there are no such questions.

Names, how everyone is related to everyone else in the home, whether you live there full time or whether you live somewhere else (like a dorm, active-duty, etc.) race, and you're done.

All reasonable questions, IMHO.

I'm just offended that they didn't ask about my dog. Dogs are people, too!  
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