Braniff747SP
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Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:17 pm

Geely, a Chinese carmaker, has bought Volvo for $1.8 Billion....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8592426.stm

Your thoughts?
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MoltenRock
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:24 pm

I think it's great! Only the Asian car manufacturers have the cash and desire to be buying up these companies at cheap prices. It's a huge win for Asia! The Chinese, South Korean, and Indian companies are making big headway into the auto market. The Chinese and South Korean manufactures being the main two big winners of frontline manufacturers.

However, with VW, GM, and Ford duking it out in China and other Asian countries, lots of other Asian countries are getting huge wins from content/parts manufacturing in their locales even though the "brand" or "badge" of auto line may be of American, European, or Japanese headquarters corporate office.
 
johns624
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:25 pm

In the near term, I think that it'll hurt the Volvo brand name. Right now, "Chinese" and "quality" usually aren't used in the same sentence.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:35 pm

Quoting johns624 (Reply 2):
Right now, "Chinese" and "quality" usually aren't used in the same sentence.

  

Volvo has been known to be a manufacturer of cars that have been on top in terms of passenger safety. However, the Chinese brands, including Geely, are known for the exact opposite. I just remind you of this crashtest of a chinese car. The result is fatal, but see for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZWy_fASSiQ
 
BMI727
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:19 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 3):
I just remind you of this crashtest of a chinese car. The result is fatal, but see for yourself:

Wow, that thing just bounced and didn't absorb anything. On second thought, maybe it is best if the Chinese just keep copying things.  
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rabenschlag
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:55 pm

It really depends on whether they will be able to maintain the spirit and culture of Volvo. In my humble opinion, Ford already failed in this respect (highly subjective, but I think that Volvos lost most of their volvoness during Fords reign). I have doubts whether the Chinese team will be better at this task. But who knows.
 
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:38 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 3):
However, the Chinese brands, including Geely, are known for the exact opposite. I just remind you of this crashtest of a chinese car.

Volvo is the right brand for a Chinese auto company to purchase if they want to improve there safety. Fords improved greatly due to Volvo's input.

Quoting Rabenschlag (Reply 5):
It really depends on whether they will be able to maintain the spirit and culture of Volvo. In my humble opinion, Ford already failed in this respect (highly subjective, but I think that Volvos lost most of their volvoness during Fords reign).

Ford raped and pillaged Volvo, but I have just purchased my first, a V70, as a family car it's hard to beat, a lot of room, safe, well made, good value for money compared to Audi, BMW or Mercedes (the only other brands I would consider) plus in Norway Volvo retain there value better than most brands.

As long as Volvo design and engineering is maintained in Sweden and Chinese made Volvo's are only for the Chinese domestic market (I believe this was part of the agreement with the Swedish unions and Govt) then I don't think there is anything to worry about, I don't see this falling apart like the MG Rover fiasco.

[Edited 2010-04-03 14:40:55]
 
MoltenRock
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:29 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 3):
Volvo has been known to be a manufacturer of cars that have been on top in terms of passenger safety.

Neither was Japanese manufacturing in the 1970s and before, as they were "cheap" and "crappy". Look what the Japanese did to the US industry in the 1980s and 1990s.
 
alfa75
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:18 am

As a Service and Parts Manager at a Volvo store I can say that we have not had too many questions about the purchase. The Volvos we sell and service will continue to be made in Europe so I do not have any issues with it. I also heard from my GM that Geely infused Volvo with a bunch of cash as well. This will help.
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SAS A340
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:47 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 6):
Ford raped and pillaged Volvo, but I have just purchased my first, a V70, as a family car it's hard to beat

Not just as a family car,i have one to and i have lots of fun with it to  
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 6):
As long as Volvo design and engineering is maintained in Sweden and Chinese made Volvo's are only for the Chinese domestic market (I believe this was part of the agreement with the Swedish unions and Govt)

That's correct,that was the deal.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Thread starter):
Your thoughts?

I would say that 1.8 Billion $ was cheap,Volvo has everything from small to large cars in the pipeline,fresh from the designers and most of them with very low fuelconsumtion,and the sales are going up. I am not so sure that this was such a god deal for Ford,but that's often the case when there is a lack of money (cash)
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geekydude
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:11 am

Quoting Rabenschlag (Reply 5):
It really depends on whether they will be able to maintain the spirit and culture of Volvo. In my humble opinion, Ford already failed in this respect (highly subjective, but I think that Volvos lost most of their volvoness during Fords reign). I have doubts whether the Chinese team will be better at this task. But who knows.

From what I heard Geely will keep an independant Volvo. There won't be any Geely's team meddling with Volvo's production, design or sales. But Volvo will surely expand its presence in China. Hopefully it will turn into a win-win in a few years.
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LTU932
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:55 am

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 7):
Neither was Japanese manufacturing in the 1970s and before, as they were "cheap" and "crappy". Look what the Japanese did to the US industry in the 1980s and 1990s.

Not to defend the Japanese manufacturers back then, but to be fair, back then there wasn't a mass media that was accessable 24 hrs a day, with information and even videos of crashtests that showed shocking results. At most, you'd just read about it in the newspaper, in occasional TV reports and in the weekly/monthly automotive magazines. I'm not denying that Japanese cars in the 70's were sub-standard (to put it politely), but it wasn't that easy to read, hear or see something about it than it is today.
 
MoltenRock
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:34 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 11):
Not to defend the Japanese manufacturers back then, but to be fair, back then there wasn't a mass media that was accessable 24 hrs a day, with information and even videos of crashtests that showed shocking results. At most, you'd just read about it in the newspaper, in occasional TV reports and in the weekly/monthly automotive magazines. I'm not denying that Japanese cars in the 70's were sub-standard (to put it politely), but it wasn't that easy to read, hear or see something about it than it is today.

You can watch it happen right now in front of your eyes, yet again. Take new auto powerhouse Hyundai. Last year they again placed among the very best for quality in mainstream autos in the USA. They are better than Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, Infiniti, GM, and dozens of others. They are only beat by Lexus, Porsche, and Cadillac.

They were the butt of comedian's jokes in the late 1980s and early 1990s. They are now one of the largest auto companies in the world. Not too shabby for a company who entered the US with the less than stellar Excel in 1986. Make no mistake, both South Korea's and China's auto manufacturers will continue pushing quality while getting ever larger while more traditional nameplates like Chrysler, Saab, Pontiac, etc... wither and die because they didn't want to compete.


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johns624
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:20 pm

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 12):
Take new auto powerhouse Hyundai. Last year they again placed among the very best for quality in mainstream autos in the USA. They are better than Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, Infiniti, GM, and dozens of others. They are only beat by Lexus, Porsche, and Cadillac.

The problem with these rankings is that they are subjective, not objective. I would have to think that a buyer of a BMW, Mercedes, etc, has higher expectations than the typical Hyundai owner.
 
BMI727
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:22 pm

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 12):
They were the butt of comedian's jokes in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

They still are, and I still reserve the right to make fun of them as I see fit. Of course the Chinese might be an easier target.
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:32 am

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 12):
They were the butt of comedian's jokes in the late 1980s and early 1990s. They are now one of the largest auto companies in the world. Not too shabby for a company who entered the US with the less than stellar Excel in 1986. Make no mistake, both South Korea's and China's auto manufacturers will continue pushing quality while getting ever larger while more traditional nameplates like Chrysler, Saab, Pontiac, etc... wither and die because they didn't want to compete.

My thoughts are that the Koreans were faster than the Japanese in catching up, and it will take the Chinese a much shorter time to catch up with the Koreans with technology much easily available compared to the past.
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MoltenRock
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:56 am

Quoting johns624 (Reply 13):
The problem with these rankings is that they are subjective, not objective. I would have to think that a buyer of a BMW, Mercedes, etc, has higher expectations than the typical Hyundai owner.

How is the initial quality of a car's performance by owners "subjective" when it is based on the number of problems needing fixing by dealers? That's pretty objective and a solid criteria for judging quality in the timeframe it measures.

Even Consumer's Reports which does not accept any advertising dollars, so therefore have no financial stake in any of its dealings and ratings also have been ranking Hyundai at the top of their lists as well.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...s-reliability/ratings-overview.htm

This purchase by Geely is a deal. If you remember Ford paid $6.5 billion for Volvo back in 1999, and invested billions more over the 11 years they owned it to update the dowdy nameplate. Now Geely is going to benefit greatly for only $1.8 billion + another $900 million they are investing into Volvo to recharge their product offerings. It's an instant quality nameplate for them.

[Edited 2010-04-04 23:00:58]
 
johns624
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:11 pm

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 16):
How is the initial quality of a car's performance by owners "subjective" when it is based on the number of problems needing fixing by dealers? That's pretty objective and a solid criteria for judging quality in the timeframe it measures.

Easy. Someone buying a Mercedes is going to take it back for a little rattle, and keep taking it back until it's gone. Hyundai owners probably won't even notice.
 
cws818
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:48 pm

I can almost see the newspaper cartoons now.... "Volvo's latest safety feature: lead paint!"
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Braniff747SP
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:21 pm

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 12):
They were the butt of comedian's jokes in the late 1980s and early 1990s
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
They still are, and I still reserve the right to make fun of them as I see fit. Of course the Chinese might be an easier target.

       

I agree.... They are fun to make fun of. LOL.

I hope that the Geely people will let Volvo, be Volvo. Keep the manufacturing plants, and keep the quality of the cars. As far as I'm concerned, they make great family cars. Safe, reliable, comfortable. (But, there is no way in hell I would EVER buy one.)  
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BMI727
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:52 pm

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 19):
I agree.... They are fun to make fun of. LOL.

SNL did it just recently saying that Hyundai issued a recall regarding the door handles. The problem was that they were attached to a Hyundai.
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MoltenRock
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:09 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 20):
SNL did it just recently saying that Hyundai issued a recall regarding the door handles. The problem was that they were attached to a Hyundai.

LOL! Now that's funny.

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TSS
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:25 pm

Quoting Braniff747SP (Thread starter):
Your thoughts?

Ehhh... I always figured that Ford bought Volvo for the same reason AA bought Reno Air: To keep a competitor from getting hold of it. Geely buying Volvo makes a lot more sense though, as Volvo's engineering know-how could help address what many perceive to be Geely's (and all Chinese car manufacturer's) biggest hurdle on the road to international sales numbers: crash safety.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 12):
Not too shabby for a company who entered the US with the less than stellar Excel in 1986.

"Less than Stellar"?   
...
Okay, nobody caught the (I'm assuming unintentional) double-entendre but me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Stellar
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MoltenRock
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:15 pm

Quoting TSS (Reply 22):
"Less than Stellar"?   
...
Okay, nobody caught the (I'm assuming unintentional) double-entendre but me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai...ellar

LOL! Who knew they had a "less than stellar" Stellar?  


Kidding aside, it's pretty darned hard to condemn Hyundai as a POS, when they kick every American nameplate and European nameplate (save Porsche). How sad is that? Auto companies that have been in business for 100 years can't compete against a South Korean manufacturer, and soon enough Chinese manufacturers. Americans and Europeans to a lesser extent need to take this challenge from Asia very, very seriously or they will be on the scrap heap of automotive history.
 
johns624
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:03 am

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 23):
Kidding aside, it's pretty darned hard to condemn Hyundai as a POS, when they kick every American nameplate and European nameplate (save Porsche). How sad is that?

You still don't know what you're talking about. Besides, "initial quality" doesn't mean squat. What the car is going to be like with 80K+ miles on it is what's really important...
 
MoltenRock
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:33 am

Apparently you don't know what you're talking about as Consumer's Reports, JD Power, and others have rated the quality including "non-initial" ownership problems as being better than average and in fact among the highest. Just because a person has cognitive dissonance and doesn't want to accept that fact, doesn't make it untrue.
 
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:03 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 22):
Geely buying Volvo makes a lot more sense though, as Volvo's engineering know-how could help address what many perceive to be Geely's (and all Chinese car manufacturer's) biggest hurdle on the road to international sales numbers: crash safety.

Ding - Ding - Ding - We have a winner! Except that not only does Geely get access to Volvo's tremendous safety resources - the ENTIRE Chinese car industry gets access to it, thanks to the communist central government. The Chinese government will make sure that Volvo's safety know-how gets circulated throughout the domestic auto industry in China.
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:17 pm

I'm sure that Geely is going to respect the heritage of the Volvo brand... yadda yadda yadda. The one and only thing that annoys me and instantly puts me off buying an excellent car like the Volvo is that it is now State owned by the Chinese. (Don't kid yourself- Geely is at least 50% State owned.)

How is it that we abhor state intervention in the West but don't care a single whit if the Chinese buys something? Quite sickeningly, it seems that it is a point of celebration. The Chinese government has to be one of the most corrupt, manipulative governments; defying the international community on more fronts than any other. Even their deliberate manipulation of the Yuan is dirty pool. It is universally believed now that if the Chinese don't float their currency the recovery from this recession will lead only to stagflation everywhere else.

Forced labour camps. Health and Safety regulations from 1643 and environmental regulations that would be suitable in Bopal, or Chernobyl, or (insert your favourite ecological disaster here). Political freedoms from the days of Henry VIII. Name your bailiwick. The Chinese government doesn't give a crap about its own citizens- much less the international community.

When the State factories are producing 99-cent trinkets and even $50 kettles, quite frankly, I have no choice whether I buy chinese or not. But a $75,000 car? Absolutely. Empires are not built on the backs of soldiers or missionaries any more. They are created through financial means and every penny we send toward the Chinese is a penny we are NOT spending in our own backyards.

I will be buying based on my values. And my values do not in any way, shape, or form, reflect the values of the Chinese government. And don't think that as the Chinese ethos creeps more and more into our lives that a simple petition is going to make a difference. Falun Gong has been in a 20-year campaign to stop persecution of its practitioners. 20 years is nothing for the Chinese. For real change to take place, there has to be consistent resistance for 20 generations. Or a sudden revolution.

Yes the Volvo will still be made in Sweden. Yes, Hans and Jurgen will still go home with a good salary to support their families. But the profits will not be staying in Europe to support an expensive European standard of living. The profits will be going back to China- to a country where the difference between the haves and the have-nots is so extreme there is no point of comparison in the West.

Is the Volvo a good car? Certainly. Is it now good for the world economy, and in the longer-run my own economic well-being? Not a friggin' chance.
 
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RE: Volvo Bought By Geely For $1.8 Bill.

Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:01 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 22):
Geely buying Volvo makes a lot more sense though, as Volvo's engineering know-how could help address what many perceive to be Geely's (and all Chinese car manufacturer's) biggest hurdle on the road to international sales numbers: crash safety.

Yes, but it also paves the way for a Geely-badged Volvo S40 lookalike which Geely will claim as their own independent design. Since Volvo are owned by Geely they can't take action in intellectual property. It will no doubt lead to a devaluation of the Volvo brand.
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