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Dreadnought
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1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:01 pm

Good news. Hopefully the other two will be cleared as well.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...0042200748.html?hpid=moreheadlines

Quote:
A six-man jury found Petty Officer 1st Class Julio Huertas, 29, of Blue Island, Illinois, not guilty of charges of dereliction of duty and attempting to influence the testimony of another service member. The jury spent two hours deliberating the verdict.

“It’s a big weight off my shoulders,” a smiling and composed Huertas said as he left the courthouse at the U.S. military’s Camp Victory on Baghdad’s western outskirts.

“Compared to all the physical activity we go through, this has been mentally more challenging.”

Huertas said he plans now to continue with his military career and “to go home and kiss my wife.”

Huertas was the first of three SEALS to face a court-martial for charges related to the abuse incident and the verdict was a major blow to the government’s case. All three SEALs could have received only a disciplinary reprimand, but insisted on a military trial to clear their names and save their careers.

Shame on the government for even bringing this case to court.
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NIKV69
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:06 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Shame on the government for even bringing this case to court.

Yea it's getting harder to tell what side the current administration is on. Just more of an example of appeasement. Glad this jury stood up for what was right. Let's just hope the other two get the same decision.
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dl021
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:29 pm

This continued farce in the name of appeasement and political correctness does nothing but embolden our enemies and weaken our military's morale. The terrorist organization use this as fodder against us ("look, they're admitting they're beating us for no reason!!") and our own hand wringing is continually interpreted world wide as guilt of some sort. Our military is being told that they can't "be mean" to terrorists and that they must needlessly endanger themselves to satisfy the demands of certain people back home who don't think we ought to be there in the first place and definitely would rather not offend anyone overseas....ever.

This case is a clear demonstration of the administrations contempt for the military and the lack of actual understanding the left in general has regarding the effect of their political maneuverings on our international image. The wrong people are getting the idea that we can be defeated in our quest to make life too difficult for the terrorists to threaten us meaningfully simply by causing us too much self-doubt and weakening our will to defend ourselves.

Too many people here think that if we just play nice and let the little savages (this is how the French refer to unruly children and natives) alone they'll leave us alone. All we have to do is tolerate their injustice elsewhere and not get too angry when it spills over to here....it's a cost of doing business. They don't want to discuss the reasons for our increased tempo of operations against worldwide terrorist organizations and their state sponsors because they don't want to "encourage the hawks" with legitimate reasons for action.
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CPH-R
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:47 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
Yea it's getting harder to tell what side the current administration is on. Just more of an example of appeasement.

Disgusting.

Absolutely disgusting.
 
NIKV69
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:49 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 2):
This continued farce in the name of appeasement and political correctness does nothing but embolden our enemies and weaken our military's morale. The terrorist organization use this as fodder against us ("look, they're admitting they're beating us for no reason!!") and our own hand wringing is continually interpreted world wide as guilt of some sort. Our military is being told that they can't "be mean" to terrorists and that they must needlessly endanger themselves to satisfy the demands of certain people back home who don't think we ought to be there in the first place and definitely would rather not offend anyone overseas....ever.

This case is a clear demonstration of the administrations contempt for the military and the lack of actual understanding the left in general has regarding the effect of their political maneuverings on our international image. The wrong people are getting the idea that we can be defeated in our quest to make life too difficult for the terrorists to threaten us meaningfully simply by causing us too much self-doubt and weakening our will to defend ourselves.

Too many people here think that if we just play nice and let the little savages (this is how the French refer to unruly children and natives) alone they'll leave us alone. All we have to do is tolerate their injustice elsewhere and not get too angry when it spills over to here....it's a cost of doing business. They don't want to discuss the reasons for our increased tempo of operations against worldwide terrorist organizations and their state sponsors because they don't want to "encourage the hawks" with legitimate reasons for action.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:19 pm

Guys, you're missing the point:

This is why people get a TRIAL. Because sometimes they're not guilty. In fact they are 100% not guilty until proven otherwise.

And so I am neither happy nor sad that the verdict was Not Guilty (I'm happy for him, of course). I'm just happy that these men, unlike some of the terrorists, got a trial.
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NIKV69
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:21 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 3):
Disgusting.

Absolutely disgusting.

One could say the same for the people that have put these three soldiers through all of this and basically ruined their reputations over a bloody lip that there wasn't even consistent testimony on. That my friend is what is disgusting.

[Edited 2010-04-23 12:54:13 by srbmod]
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Tugger
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:28 pm

Glad to hear that the USA and her various systems all worked well. I don;t understand why people disparage this process. Plain and simple the process works. It's not perfect but it does work.

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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:52 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
Let's just hope the other two get the same decision.

I agree. Quite frankly, if one is found guilty, I'm sad to say it would be for no other reason that to set an example.

If all are cleared, as it should be, then justice was served.
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:54 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
This is why people get a TRIAL. Because sometimes they're not guilty. In fact they are 100% not guilty until proven otherwise.

You miss the point. He should never have been brought to trial in the first place. When capturing a suspected mass murderer who is resisting capture, I see no reason to put one of our troops for a punch in the nose. A little dressing down, perhaps, but not a court martial!

[Edited 2010-04-23 12:54:35 by srbmod]
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EA772LR
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:04 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 2):

Excellent post   

Glad to see at least one of these patriots walks away. Here's for the other two.   
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DocLightning
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:01 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):

You miss the point. He should never have been brought to trial in the first place. When capturing a suspected mass murderer who is resisting capture, I see no reason to put one of our troops for a punch in the nose. A little dressing down, perhaps, but not a court martial!

He was acquitted. His record is clean. Much cleaner than had he had a dressing down.

And I hope you would not be OK with any of our troops hitting a disarmed and bound man. I thought the military was supposed to teach honor and morality and all that stuff. Hitting a man with his hands tied is hardly that.
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Mudboy
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:25 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
And I hope you would not be OK with any of our troops hitting a disarmed and bound man. I thought the military was supposed to teach honor and morality and all that stuff. Hitting a man with his hands tied is hardly that.

You know what I am not ok with?
The fact that we ask the impossible of these guys, and then try to charge them for some stupid crap like this.
I could give a rats ass, if they gave a terrorist, a bloody lip, that was the leader of a group that dragged Americans bodies through the streets, and hung them from a bridge, in my book, he got off light..
I will say, that when I read about these SEALs getting charged, it was the first time I was disgusted to say I was an American. I was at Camp Victory, the day this trial started, and will say the mood was very dim.
I am glad PO Huertas was cleared of the charges, I hope the same for his other Team Members.
I don't care if you support the war in Iraq or not, but if you have not been here, you have no clue to some of the things, these insurgents do. Is there any cause, that you would support, that would make you strap C4 on a kid, and send him to the gate to get candy? Yet, we want to charge our Troops, for roughing a guy up?????
 
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:41 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 2):
This case is a clear demonstration of the administrations contempt for the military and the lack of actual understanding the left in general has regarding the effect of their political maneuverings on our international image.

The previous administration also put soldiers on trial, and convicted some of them...but only if they weren't officers. I don't believe any generals were put on trial...just those darned foot soldiers taking the law into their own hands.

For instance, the only officer convicted in the Abu Ghraib trials, had his conviction overturned. The army decided that responsibility only went as high as Sgt.

Another example of the Army screwing the foot soldier and protecting the officers and the establishment.

Contempt for the soldiers in the trenches is certainly not restricted to this administration. To believe otherwise is naive and frankly, wrong.
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DocLightning
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:33 pm

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 13):
I could give a rats ass, if they gave a terrorist, a bloody lip, that was the leader of a group that dragged Americans bodies through the streets, and hung them from a bridge, in my book, he got off light..

I could give a rat's ass, too. Except that until that "terrorist" has a trial, he could just be a shop-keep who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and got picked up in a case of mistaken identity.

For a group of people who beat their chests about the Constitution when it came to healthcare, a topic on which the Constitution is absolutely silent, I find ironic that you all oppose trials. You seem to want an instant punishment without trial if you think the guy is a terrorist and you want instant exhoneration without a trial if you think the guy is innocent.

I think you need to move to a totalitarian country in which the right to a fair trial isn't guaranteed. You'll be a lot happier there.
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Mudboy
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:59 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
For a group of people who beat their chests about the Constitution when it came to healthcare, a topic on which the Constitution is absolutely silent, I find ironic that you all oppose trials. You seem to want an instant punishment without trial if you think the guy is a terrorist and you want instant exhoneration without a trial if you think the guy is innocent.

Idk which group of people you are lumping me with, but I think it is stupid to wrap the constitution around someone that would piss on it, if given the chance.
I don't oppose trials, I oppose our Government asking our Special Operations Soldiers to sacrifice so much, and then get tried for BS like this. They did not go in and burn a village down, and slaughter women and children, they punched a terrorist.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
I think you need to move to a totalitarian country in which the right to a fair trial isn't guaranteed. You'll be a lot happier there.

Well my current duties leave me in Iraq right now, not chillin at home, playing on my Blackberry.
 
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:10 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
And I hope you would not be OK with any of our troops hitting a disarmed and bound man. I thought the military was supposed to teach honor and morality and all that stuff. Hitting a man with his hands tied is hardly that

#1 The far left has always wanted to think war is always cut and dry and things can be done by the book. That is not the case.

#2. We will never know what exactly happened since there wasn't any evidence or consistent accounts of what happened.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
For a group of people who beat their chests about the Constitution when it came to healthcare, a topic on which the Constitution is absolutely silent, I find ironic that you all oppose trials

Jees the "beat our chest" sound byte? Give that one a rest. As for trials I am all for them, it's just nice to actually have some evidence first.

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 16):
Well my current duties leave me in Iraq right now, not chillin at home, playing on my Blackberry.

So very true.
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Dreadnought
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:22 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
For a group of people who beat their chests about the Constitution when it came to healthcare, a topic on which the Constitution is absolutely silent, I find ironic that you all oppose trials. You seem to want an instant punishment without trial if you think the guy is a terrorist and you want instant exhoneration without a trial if you think the guy is innocent.

That's why we prefer to conduct our wars overseas - I don't understand why people insist that Constitutional rights are valid for, say, a Yemeni caught in Iraq.

I have heard reports that ever since the whole "closing Gitmo, send the prisoners to the US and give them civil trials and Cable TV" stink, that our capture rate has gone way down, and that our troops are simply not going to put in the extra effort and risk to capture someone alive when it would be easier to just kill them and be done with it.

I for one don't mind at all.
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Venus6971
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:03 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
I have heard reports that ever since the whole "closing Gitmo, send the prisoners to the US and give them civil trials and Cable TV" stink, that our capture rate has gone way down, and that our troops are simply not going to put in the extra effort and risk to capture someone alive when it would be easier to just kill them and be done with it.

Similar thing happen in the Pacific in WW2 when Marines were promised R&R for 2 weeks if they brought back Japanese POWs alive for interogation, when intel got too many takers and a backlog of Marines waiting for their reward the brass killed the offer and Japanese soldiers were fighting to the death again. If only CNN MSNBC was embedded with the troops at Okinawa , Guadalcanal or Iwo Jima many sons of Nippon will have made it back home. It is always a risky endeavor to bring back prisoners who value death more than we value life.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
Guys, you're missing the point:

This is why people get a TRIAL. Because sometimes they're not guilty. In fact they are 100% not guilty until proven otherwise.

And so I am neither happy nor sad that the verdict was Not Guilty (I'm happy for him, of course). I'm just happy that these men, unlike some of the terrorists, got a trial.

This verdict speaks volumes since the UCMJ system has a 99% conviction rate, if these sailors refused Non Judicial punishment/Captains mast and chose a courtsmartial says they will not be railroaded and a they are innocent of charges brought. I wonder what the Article 32 (Grand Jury for military)hearing brought for evidence to deam necessary for a trial. Also the jury comes into play, if they are all officers/Senior NCO's who go into combat and not the Georgetown piano bar weekends off types it has to be in the backs of their minds that they might be them them one day to become cannon fodder for the political agenda driven class.
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Elite
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:09 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
In fact they are 100% not guilty until proven otherwise.

And 100% innocent after being cleared - yet some people forget this fact. If I was guilty, I sure as hell would avoid a court martial at any costs, but if I was innocent, I would take a court martial over a regular trial without question.
 
dl021
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:56 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
He was acquitted. His record is clean. Much cleaner than had he had a dressing down.

His record will never be "clean" in the military, this will stay with him in reality for the rest of his career. As a SEAL it's going to be difficult now that he's known and has this following him.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
And I hope you would not be OK with any of our troops hitting a disarmed and bound man.

It depends on whether he was resisting/struggling or trying to escape. Being punched is the least of things they could have done to him. Tangos are being trained to complain and bring charges when they're arrested, since we're giving them the opportunity to do so, and it's being used to sow doubt and build resentment towards us. It's also costing us in terms of ability and morale. Our troops are having their hands tied and being endangered by commanders who don't want to be faced with charges such as this. Be assured that the commanders of these guys is in just as much trouble career wise as they are.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
I thought the military was supposed to teach honor and morality and all that stuff. Hitting a man with his hands tied is hardly that.

Yeah...see above. I'll say that in laying hands on a captured EPW to maintain control there was nothing done to this terrorist. If he'd been beaten up evidence would have shown it.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 14):
The previous administration also put soldiers on trial, and convicted some of them...but only if they weren't officers.

Yeah, you can rest assured that the soldiers put on trial had real charges brought against them in general and were guilty of violating clear orders. They weren't being tried because they complained to the Iraqis about being punched in the nose.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 14):
I don't believe any generals were put on trial...just those darned foot soldiers taking the law into their own hands.

Generals careers were ruined, in addition to men and women put on trial, for actions taken by people given responsibility for the prison. The soldiers and civilian contractors who did the stupidity (and photographed themselves) were duly punished, and their entire chain of command suffered.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 14):
Contempt for the soldiers in the trenches is certainly not restricted to this administration. To believe otherwise is naive and frankly, wrong.

This is true, but you have to acknowledge that it's worse now than it has been, and it's due to both contempt and ignorance of service.
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fxramper
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:44 pm

Foxnews just broke the 2nd Navy Seal found not guilty.

I work with a guy whose brother was aquitted back in 2009 of premeditated murder when leading his special forces unit on patrol in Iraq circa 2007. I witnessed firsthand how it effected family members even if he was innocent from the beginning. Pray these guys can return to some level of normalcy in their lives.
 
NIKV69
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:47 pm

Quoting fxramper (Reply 22):
Foxnews just broke the 2nd Navy Seal found not guilty.

Great new indeed! Thanks for sharing.
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dl021
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RE: 1st Of 3 Navy SEALs Cleared

Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:56 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
Quoting fxramper (Reply 22):
Foxnews just broke the 2nd Navy Seal found not guilty.

Great new indeed! Thanks for sharing.

This is great news, except for the blowback we can expect when the people unhappy with this declare that we're unwilling to convict the accused. We're one of the only places in the world where the concept of innocent until guilty exists legally (and even here many don't really understand it). Once these accusations are leveled it's real in the minds of many around the world.
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