futurepilot16
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Disgusting Story Of The Year...

Sat May 01, 2010 5:44 am

Grandson is in a "sexual" relationship with his Grandmother. They will be having a child together (through a surrogate mother). Let's hope the kid doesn't come out with webbed feet.         

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EHPBSHVo3I

TALK ABOUT INBREEDING.
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OA412
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RE: Disgusting Story Of The Year...

Sat May 01, 2010 6:49 am

I was hoping against hope that this story was a joke, but alas, a quick internet search indicates that it is indeed true. I'm speechless!!!
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ltbewr
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RE: Disgusting Story Of The Year...

Sat May 01, 2010 11:49 am

I think the social services authorities ought to get involved, separate them, not allow the surrogate process to go through and put both of them into residential psych treatment. If not illegal, this 'preverse' relationship outght to lead to them being considered as sex offenders. A child that comes out of this preverse relationship has a good chance of being being mentally disabled, that is why the laws prevent marriage of siblings or cousins.
 
757MDE
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RE: Disgusting Story Of The Year...

Sat May 01, 2010 2:37 pm

Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...
 
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akiss20
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RE: Disgusting Story Of The Year...

Sat May 01, 2010 2:43 pm

Quoting Ltbewr (Reply 2):
I think the social services authorities ought to get involved, separate them, not allow the surrogate process to go through and put both of them into residential psych treatment. If not illegal, this 'preverse' relationship outght to lead to them being considered as sex offenders. A child that comes out of this preverse relationship has a good chance of being being mentally disabled, that is why the laws prevent marriage of siblings or cousins.

Why exactly? You say that any child coming from this relationship has a higher chance for genetic defects, which would be true if the two gamates where from the grandmother and the grandson, but they are not, they are from a surrogate and the grandson, therefore the risk of defect is no higher than if he had married anyone else.

These are two consenting adults that are in no position to create a potentially genetically defective child (the only rational reason we do not allow incest). I am not saying that I necessarily agree with it (I find it pretty gross myself) but that is not in of itself a valid basis to actually have to intervene.

Furthermore, consider the fact that they have never really known each other. From a social/psychological standpoint, this isn't all that different from a 72 year old dating any other 26 year old (which in of itself can be considered abnormal, but again is no cause for intervention). It isn't like the kid grew up seeing his grandmother in a traditional grandmotherely role and then initiated a sexual relationship.

People are all too willing to say "eww thats disgusting, we need to stop that" for extreme cases that do not have any actual rational basis to stop as a society. Society has a reason to stop incest as a whole due to the limiting effect it has on the gene pool, but as this is not an issue here, we have no real rational basis to try and step in. Their freedom must be respected, no matter how much you think it is "gross"
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NIKV69
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RE: Disgusting Story Of The Year...

Sat May 01, 2010 6:50 pm

There are some threads you just shouldn't open.
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ManuCH
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RE: Disgusting Story Of The Year...

Sun May 02, 2010 1:18 pm

While this story is wrong and disgusting (well, not for everyone apparently), the kid doesn't have an incremented chance of genetic defects, because the grandmother isn't the biological mother. She is not biologically involved in any way in the fertilization.
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akiss20
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RE: Disgusting Story Of The Year...

Sun May 02, 2010 2:14 pm

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 6):
While this story is wrong and disgusting (well, not for everyone apparently),

Don't get me wrong, I think it is pretty gross too. I just don't believe in using my disgust response as a basis for action unless if there is a rational reason as well. Call me a Peter Singer type, but I think it is better than the Kassian line of policy.
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RussianJet
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RE: Disgusting Story Of The Year...

Sun May 02, 2010 2:26 pm

Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 4):
These are two consenting adults that are in no position to create a potentially genetically defective child (the only rational reason we do not allow incest).

Are you serious? You honestly think that's the only rational reason to prohibit incest? Maintaining decent family structures and correct relationships in the family is not a cause you consider rational?
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akiss20
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RE: Disgusting Story Of The Year...

Sun May 02, 2010 2:48 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 8):
Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 4):
These are two consenting adults that are in no position to create a potentially genetically defective child (the only rational reason we do not allow incest).

Are you serious? You honestly think that's the only rational reason to prohibit incest? Maintaining decent family structures and correct relationships in the family is not a cause you consider rational?

I was perhaps a bit heavy-handed in my use of the word "only." The social and psychological ramifications for the parties involved in incest can be very detrimental, but as I mentioned, in this case they are extremely limited because the two had never met before. If the grandson had grown up in a traditional manner and had seen his grandmother in a traditional role, the situation would be quite different. The way it stands, however, is that they essentially met as two strangers might.

Look I am not condoning the behavior, or necessarily approving of it (I sure as hell wouldn't engage) but I don't believe in using this "eww its nasty" response as a basis for saying "oh we must stop this" until a more rational basis is found. A lot of people use the "eww its nasty" response as a basis for condemning MY relationships (gay) so I know what it is like to be on the receiving end of un-thought out disgust response discrimination.

If you also consider my arguments, they do condemn incest in the vast majority of cases, but this case is an exception in the norm of incest cases (no chance of fertilization therefore no genetic issues, no contact between the two in the traditional familial roles therefore little difference between them and strangers). If someone can produce studies that two individuals who are related but have never met have a significantly increased chance of psychological damage, then I will reconsider my opinion. But the way it stands afaik, I don't think there is a rational basis to condemn this specific case.
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DocLightning
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RE: Disgusting Story Of The Year...

Sun May 02, 2010 6:23 pm

Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 4):
People are all too willing to say "eww thats disgusting, we need to stop that" for extreme cases that do not have any actual rational basis to stop as a society. Society has a reason to stop incest as a whole due to the limiting effect it has on the gene pool, but as this is not an issue here, we have no real rational basis to try and step in. Their freedom must be respected, no matter how much you think it is "gross"

I agree.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 8):
Are you serious? You honestly think that's the only rational reason to prohibit incest? Maintaining decent family structures and correct relationships in the family is not a cause you consider rational?

Well all that's gone, anyway. In my work as a pediatrician, less than 10% of my patients have the same last name as their mothers and less than 10% have the same last name as their siblings. Look, is it the government's job? I don't think so. So
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RussianJet
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RE: Disgusting Story Of The Year...

Mon May 03, 2010 12:07 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
Look, is it the government's job? I don't think so

So? Grandmother with Grandson is still going to be totally wrong on all levels.
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DocLightning
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RE: Disgusting Story Of The Year...

Mon May 03, 2010 5:52 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 11):
So? Grandmother with Grandson is still going to be totally wrong on all levels.

Fine. Let it be wrong. I'm as grossed out as you are. It's none of my business and it's none of yours and it's none of the government's.

Move along. There is only freaky, creepy grossness to be seen here.
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kiwiinoz
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RE: Disgusting Story Of The Year...

Mon May 03, 2010 6:25 am

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/technolog...-mag-axes-grandmother-incest-story

Actually, it's sounding like this might all be BS

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PanHAM
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RE: Disgusting Story Of The Year...

Mon May 03, 2010 12:11 pm

Reminds me of a Willie Nelson song "I'm my own grandpa". Even though, the explanation in that song was much more difficult than this case here.

.
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DocLightning
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RE: Disgusting Story Of The Year...

Mon May 03, 2010 4:51 pm

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 13):
Trust us kiwis!!

Ohhhh, no. Don't even start.

20:1 sheep:human ratio. That's all I have to say. 20:1.
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Newark777
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RE: Disgusting Story Of The Year...

Mon May 03, 2010 4:58 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
Well all that's gone, anyway. In my work as a pediatrician, less than 10% of my patients have the same last name as their mothers and less than 10% have the same last name as their siblings.

To say it's all gone is a bit of a stretch. If you expose yourself just to liberal enclaves and inner cities, sure, that might be the case, but elsewhere the "traditional family" is still the norm.
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