futurepilot16
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Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Tue May 04, 2010 10:12 pm

  . You ask me where they get these ridiculous ideas, I don't know. They claim Obama deliberately "let" the oil leak, that's why he took so long to speak on the issue of the spill. How does this makes sense?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GBTuUOZuSI

This post is less bashing Fox News and instead, trying to make sense of ridiculous sensationalist statements by members of the American media. Why would he want a major oil spill less than 10 miles off the shore of the American mainland when he is in favor of more off shore drilling? If you ask me, the "sabotage" they spoke about would be more caused by people who dislike Obama, rather than the Obama admin itself.
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Newark777
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Tue May 04, 2010 10:14 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
This post is less bashing Fox News and instead, trying to make sense of ridiculous sensationalist statements by members of the American media.

Probably made for the same reason you put "Fox News" in your title, while claiming this thread really isn't about them specifically. Hits and views.
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futurepilot16
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Tue May 04, 2010 10:17 pm

Quoting newark777 (Reply 1):

Probably made for the same reason you put "Fox News" in your title, while claiming this thread really isn't about them specifically. Hits and views.

Umm, it's directed at Fox News, because they are the ONLY media news outlet to suggest such ridiculous claims, so yes, the fact that Fox News is in my title, is directly connected to the post and doesn't insist bashing them in any way.
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Newark777
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Tue May 04, 2010 10:22 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 2):
Umm, it's directed at Fox News, because they are the ONLY media news outlet to suggest such ridiculous claims, so yes, the fact that Fox News is in my title, is directly connected to the post and doesn't insist bashing them in any way.

That show on Fox is on the same level as the Today show and the View. Bunch of idiots sitting around talking about random topics.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Tue May 04, 2010 10:47 pm

You have to admit that the thought had to cross your mind that maybe there was something fishy about, just a week or two after Obama announces a policy of allowing offshore drilling (which we all know was a political maneuver which he really does not want), possibly the worst offshore rig accident ever takes place. Amazing coincidence. And that doesn't mean that Obama was behind it - it could have been Greenpeace, Earth First or some other group, who never intended to hurt anyone but simply poison people's appetite for drilling.

Having read something about the buildup to the accident, it's looking more and more like this was a "perfect storm" situation of one failure leading to other failures that ended up with the rig sinking. No malice, just a terrible accident. But you can't blame people for wondering "who does it benefit?" when such an unusual accident happens.

Still, an amazing coincidence.

[Edited 2010-05-04 15:48:13]
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futurepilot16
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Tue May 04, 2010 10:49 pm

Umm the last time I checked The view was not a media outlet.
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Jetsgo
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Tue May 04, 2010 10:53 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 5):

Cherry pick much? Dreadnought brought up a valid point towards the end.
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Newark777
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Tue May 04, 2010 10:59 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 5):
Umm the last time I checked The view was not a media outlet.

Do you mean news outlet? The show in question can't be confused for a news show, which is why I compared it to the View. In fact, most of what is on all the cable networks these days is not news, but news analysis, talking head opinion shows, and talk shows. What they say is no more significant than is what is said on talk radio everyday, and should be treated as such.

The people who watch these networks expecting news are the real fools in all this.
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JBirdAV8r
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Tue May 04, 2010 11:09 pm

Quoting newark777 (Reply 7):
The people who watch these networks expecting news are the real fools in all this.

  

24-hour news channels may very well be the death of rational thought in this country.

I watch major news networks as much for my news as I watch The Weather Channel for the weather.
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Ken777
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Tue May 04, 2010 11:20 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
Still, an amazing coincidence.

So is the fact the Haliburton (Cheney's old company - wonder how much stock he owns) had just finished "working" on that well. Something to do with cement.

Or that Britain is having their national election on Thursday - and it IS a rig owned by BRITISH Petroleum.

Amazing how one can find a coincidence when one wants to.   
 
Newark777
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Tue May 04, 2010 11:27 pm

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 8):
as I watch The Weather Channel for the weather.

Oh God, why shouldn't I be using TWC?  Wow!
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Dreadnought
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Tue May 04, 2010 11:27 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 9):

So is the fact the Haliburton (Cheney's old company - wonder how much stock he owns) had just finished "working" on that well. Something to do with cement.

Not a coincidence there, as Halliburton is one of the largest oilfield services companies in the world, and cemented their first offshore well (the service they did for this particular well) back in the 30s.
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ER757
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Tue May 04, 2010 11:43 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
it could have been Greenpeace, Earth First or some other group, who never intended to hurt anyone but simply poison people's appetite for drilling.

Highly unlikely IMO - I just don't see these guys going 40 miles out into the open ocean in their Zodiacs, having the wherewithal to be able to get explosives and/or incindiery devices underwater (deep diving required?) all un-noticed by the crew on board the rig. Far-fetched at best.



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
No malice, just a terrible accident.

Much more likely

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
there was something fishy about, just a week or two after Obama announces a policy of allowing offshore drilling (which we all know was a political maneuver which he really does not want), possibly the worst offshore rig accident ever takes place.

He said today's rigs are unlikely to cause spills during that announcement. I don't for a second imagine he'd have any hand in something that would make him look so silly so shortly afterwards. Just my   
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 12:35 am

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 8):
24-hour news channels may very well be the death of rational thought in this country.

That goes as well for traditional news outlets which have gone downhill. Newsweek, for instance, claims to have come up with conclusive proof that Tea Party members are racist, using poll questions like :

Quote:
When read the statement that "if blacks would only try harder, they could be just as well off as whites," 73 percent of the movement's supporters agreed, while only 33 percent of people who disapproved of the Tea Party agreed. Asked if blacks should work their way up "without special favors," as the Irish, Italians, and other groups did, 88 percent of supporters agreed, compared to 56 percent of opponents.

Newsweek interprets that as racism. Whereas I think that if you disagree with "if blacks would only try harder, they could be just as well off as whites,", that means that you think Blacks are stupid, can't do it on their own, so they need a permanent helping hand. That's racist IMHO.

This is the type of crap you'd expect from the Daily Kos or Huffington, but Newsweek???
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ltbewr
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 12:52 am

Just like with major terror events like 9/11, assinations of major public figures, strange storms affects, events like this bring out the wack job conspirators trying to find 'the real reason' for what happen, that it couldn't just be gross incompentance, that 'someone' or 'the government' or the rich or some hated group did it. That Fox News is promoting these views is totally irresponsible, but that seems to be their style.
 
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 1:06 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 14):
That Fox News is promoting these views is totally irresponsible, but that seems to be their style.

What is the difference between promotion and allowing a talking head to speak an opinion?
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seb146
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 1:16 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
You have to admit that the thought had to cross your mind that maybe there was something fishy about, just a week or two after Obama announces a policy of allowing offshore drilling (which we all know was a political maneuver which he really does not want), possibly the worst offshore rig accident ever takes place.

Tin foil hat? What has been said about the Sept 11 theorists?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 15):
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 14):
That Fox News is promoting these views is totally irresponsible, but that seems to be their style.

What is the difference between promotion and allowing a talking head to speak an opinion?

The difference is: If a right-wing talking head says it, it is what the people want. If a left-wing talking head says it, it is complete bunk and there is no way any true patriotic American would ever think that and how dare anyone think anything other that the right-wing stance!
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fr8mech
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 1:40 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Why would he want a major oil spill less than 10 miles off the shore of the American mainland when he is in favor of more off shore drilling?

Same reason that Bush wanted Katrina to destroy New Orleans.
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futurepilot16
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 1:43 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 17):
Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Why would he want a major oil spill less than 10 miles off the shore of the American mainland when he is in favor of more off shore drilling?

Same reason that Bush wanted Katrina to destroy New Orleans.

don't even get me started on that. It's one of the dumbest conspiracies involving bush I ever heard.
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Newark777
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 1:45 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 16):
If a left-wing talking head says it, it is complete bunk and there is no way any true patriotic American would ever think that and how dare anyone think anything other that the right-wing stance!

Watch the equivalent shows on MSNBC and you will see that is not the case.
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speedygonzales
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 6:15 am

Unsurprisingly, chief wacko Limbaugh has also been promoting this ridiculous idea. 
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planespotting
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 2:57 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
You have to admit that the thought had to cross your mind that maybe there was something fishy about, just a week or two after Obama announces a policy of allowing offshore drilling (which we all know was a political maneuver which he really does not want), possibly the worst offshore rig accident ever takes place. Amazing coincidence.

That is a bunch of hooey. I know you're not overtly accusing the administration of doing that, but your logic even defies your kind's usual nonsense.

First off - if there was going to be some grand conspiracy to blow up an oil well, don't you think the administration would have come out officially against any expanded offshore oil drilling? Only a wing-nut could seriously hypothesize that Obama would somehow come out in favor of something to make it look like he was for it then blow it up a mere month later and somehow use that to say "I told you so?" I didn't think any of you thought he was that smart? You can't call a guy stupid and an idiot one day then describe him as a master plotter the next.

Secondly - There was absolutely no political gain for Obama to say that his administration was in favor of expanding offshore drilling in the first place - it's not like all the "drill baby drill" people are suddenly going to have a come-to-Jesus-moment and say "wow, Barack is my kind of guy." If he was looking for political points, he would have done more by just shoring up his base by saying "no new oil coastal oil drilling." At least he would have satisfied his environmental/green supporters, rather than alienating them by proclaiming coastal drilling open for business. This accident coming on the heels of his support for drilling only makes him look worse. The more likely reason for him coming out in favor in the first place is because he's a reasonable guy - we do have natural resources of oil, and taking a reasonable and measured approach to access them, with the proper regulations and oversight, is a prudent thing to do.

I just don't understand why people who are so against his policies have to spin these ridiculous hypotheses that cannot even possibly be true. It's fine to be against his policies or his politics, but you do yourself no favors by saying "it's not that much of a leap" to think that he would plot against his own energy policy to somehow gain political points.

Madness.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 3:37 pm

Quoting speedygonzales (Reply 20):
Unsurprisingly, chief wacko Limbaugh has also been promoting this ridiculous idea.

Chief Wacko network MSNBC has been airing how bummed out they are that the Times Square bomber was a muslim - they were really hoping for a tea party member.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRmPTN07Iz4&feature=player_embedded

Quoting planespotting (Reply 21):

Secondly - There was absolutely no political gain for Obama to say that his administration was in favor of expanding offshore drilling in the first place - it's not like all the "drill baby drill" people are suddenly going to have a come-to-Jesus-moment and say "wow, Barack is my kind of guy." If he was looking for political points, he would have done more by just shoring up his base by saying "no new oil coastal oil drilling."

I never implied or meant to imply that Obama himself would be behind it. Obama was forced to make a concession to new drilling because the People demand it. His solution was to allow new drilling, but in areas different from what oil companies expected or wanted, effectively delaying any new drilling for years. Two-faced, but entirely legal, and it allowed him to make points with the more uneducated portions of the Drill Baby Drill crowd while not alienating the environmentalists - assuming they understood the slight of hand. My theory centered on the idea that some environuts, not understanding Obama's slight of hand, might have decided to 'do something about it'.

Like I said, this was the first thing that came to my mind as a out-of-the-box possibility. But evidence so far has not indicated any such foul play. You will note that I am not a conspiracy theorist - otherwise you would have seen me publish the idea here. I did not because I wanted to see what facts came out first.

[Edited 2010-05-05 08:39:02]
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Newark777
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 3:40 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
Chief Wacko network MSNBC has been airing how bummed out they are that the Times Square bomber was a muslim - they were really hoping for a tea party member.

No surprise there, MSNBC has become the left wing media outlet that liberals have been complaining about not having for years.
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Ken777
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 3:45 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
they were really hoping for a tea party member.

Now that's funny.  

Any time you have a major situation like this it is best to wait until the evidence is in. We saw it in the Oklahoma CIty Bombing, but it's apparently a lesson not learned.
 
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 3:56 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
You have to admit that the thought had to cross your mind that maybe there was something fishy about...

You are so right. When I read your post I was so shocked I spilled my glass of fluoridated water all over Obama's original Kenyan birth certificate!
 
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 4:05 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 24):
Any time you have a major situation like this it is best to wait until the evidence is in. We saw it in the Oklahoma CIty Bombing, but it's apparently a lesson not learned.

You are right of course.

However, at some point the opposite problem comes into play. We now know for a fact that this guy did it - he's confessed to it (while under full constitutional protections I might add). In all the coverage that we've seen, or in the statements made by the FBI, Justice Dept or the White House, how often have you heard them mention Islamism? That is of course the motivation behind the violence for the past several decades - could it be that our refusal to call a spade a spade is what is allowing the threat to get worse rather than better?

[Edited 2010-05-05 09:06:24]
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futurepilot16
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 5:01 pm

Quoting newark777 (Reply 23):
No surprise there, MSNBC has become the left wing media outlet that liberals have been complaining about not having for years.

That's great, we finally have an outlet to which we can tell our side of the story. But seriously, first reports was that it was a white guy in his 30s or 40s, so I too thought it was McVeigh. I was a disappointed as well that it wasn't an American, because of the same reason why Contessa was disappointed. Small minded Americans (some on this site as well), seem to think that the threat is only coming from the middle east. It would have been a serious wake up call had the terrorist been related to the unabomber. I see her point, and I firmly agree with it. Americans need to get their head outta their ass and see that even though this guy was muslim, it easily could have been a black American born guy who converted to Muslim, or it could have been a Christian hitari guy from Michigan. I too was hoping that this would be the wake up call.

Sorry, but that video isn't evidence, and she sure as hell never said Tea Party member. She only said she was sorry the guy wasn't white because America needs to realize that the threat isn't coming from one social group. IMHO, that's an excellent point. Take it for what you will.

P.S. some politicians (GOP) wanted to strip Shahzad of his Miranda rights, even though he is an American citizen, the only reason being because he is Muslim. If he was American born from middle America, and not muslim, they wouldn't even be considering this, but because he is a Muslim, they actually considered doing so. They never considered doing the same thing for the christian terrorist the apprehended in Michigan. How pathetic.
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Ken777
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 5:09 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 26):
In all the coverage that we've seen, or in the statements made by the FBI, Justice Dept or the White House, how often have you heard them mention Islamism?

And McVey, IIFC, was a Christian Patriot.

My concern is that we can continue to be able to accept non-fanatic parts of all religions as legitimate. Christians don't have the best history when it comes to terrorism so it might be in our interests to look at the moderate side of the various religions (and countries). Otherwise we'll continue to fuel hatred that moves moderates to become fanatics.
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 5:17 pm

Quoting newark777 (Reply 10):
Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 8):
as I watch The Weather Channel for the weather.

Oh God, why shouldn't I be using TWC?

Haha. I guess it's hard to bias the weather, but they play up everything so dramatically in the name of ratings.
Theoretical tornadoes approaching Mach 1, "damage simulations," severe weather re-enactments and other nonsense, and very little local weather forecasting (or even forecasting in general).

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 27):
Small minded Americans (some on this site as well), seem to think that the threat is only coming from the middle east. It would have been a serious wake up call had the terrorist been related to the unabomber.

You'd have to be small-minded to deny that the major, overwhelming threat to national security at this point is related to Middle Eastern terrorist groups.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 27):
some politicians (GOP) wanted to strip Shahzad of his Miranda rights, even though he is an American citizen, the only reason being because he is Muslim.

Are you implying that racism is the primary driver of politicians not wanting to give Miranda warnings to enemy combatants?
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Newark777
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 5:36 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 27):

It just seems strange that someone would wish that a terrorist was a certain race in order to prove some theory about people being biased towards Middle Easterners. It reeks as being in the same group of people that want to scrub Islamic Fundamentalism as being mentioned as the root cause of the terrorism we've been facing.

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 29):

Haha. I guess it's hard to bias the weather, but they play up everything so dramatically in the name of ratings.
Theoretical tornadoes approaching Mach 1, "damage simulations," severe weather re-enactments and other nonsense, and very little local weather forecasting (or even forecasting in general).

True, if I heard "snowpocalypse" once more this winter I was going to go crazy.
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futurepilot16
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 6:21 pm

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 29):

Are you implying that racism is the primary driver of politicians not wanting to give Miranda warnings to enemy combatants?

That's exactly what i'm implying. The American citizens they found in Michigan plotting to murder cops were also considered enemy combatants, why didn't they hesitate to read them their miranda rights?

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 29):
You'd have to be small-minded to deny that the major, overwhelming threat to national security at this point is related to Middle Eastern terrorist groups.

Tell that to Fox News and their conservative minions.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 6:21 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 27):
Small minded Americans (some on this site as well), seem to think that the threat is only coming from the middle east. It would have been a serious wake up call had the terrorist been related to the unabomber.

How many deaths have domestic terrorists caused since the OKC bombing? Which I might add was the work of a couple of guys, who were caught and punished, and do not represent a whole movement?

It is stupid to equate the threat from Islamist extremists and domestic groups, which are extremely fragmented and tend to be rather stupid.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 27):
P.S. some politicians (GOP) wanted to strip Shahzad of his Miranda rights, even though he is an American citizen, the only reason being because he is Muslim.

Not because he is Muslim, but because he is Islamist. We have no problems with Muslims, only with Islamists. Don't confuse the two. If people don't understand the difference we will never beat them.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 28):
And McVey, IIFC, was a Christian Patriot.

No he wasn't. He was a paranoid (thought the gov't had planted a microchip in him to follow him), borderline anarchist, which is a general description of all these militia members. He claimed to be an agnostic.

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 29):
Are you implying that racism is the primary driver of politicians not wanting to give Miranda warnings to enemy combatants?

There is apparently a clause in the most recent anti-terrorism law from a couple of years ago that allows American citizens to be detained as enemy combatants - I strongly disagree with this. Americans have Constitutional rights in all cases, and should not be grouped in with the Gitmo crowd.

That said, an American that joins forces with a terrorist group which has declared the US as its enemy should face charges of Treason, which is a capital offense.
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windy95
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 6:39 pm

Quoting newark777 (Reply 30):
Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 27):


It just seems strange that someone would wish that a terrorist was a certain race in order to prove some theory about people being biased towards Middle Easterners

Exactly...

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 27):
Small minded Americans (some on this site as well), seem to think that the threat is only coming from the middle east

Other small minded Americans (some on this site) seem to think that the only threat is coming from FOX news (why all the threads on it?), Sarah Palin (why all the threads on her?) and the Tea party.
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 7:41 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 33):

Other small minded Americans (some on this site) seem to think that the only threat is coming from FOX news (why all the threads on it?), Sarah Palin (why all the threads on her?) and the Tea party.

What threat? I make fun of Fox News, and Sarah Palin. A threat? A threat to what? Common sense in America? Your assumption is laughable.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 32):
It is stupid to equate the threat from Islamist extremists and domestic groups, which are extremely fragmented and tend to be rather stupid.

I didn't say anything about ignoring the threat. I just think it's important to point out that domestic cells have the ability to be just as dangerous as Muslims.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 32):
Not because he is Muslim, but because he is Islamist. We have no problems with Muslims, only with Islamists. Don't confuse the two. If people don't understand the difference we will never beat them.

IT SHOULD NOT MATTER. Islam extremists, Christian extremists, Jewish extremists, they are all the same thing. Don't treat one extremist group different than the other, and yes it is because he is Muslim. You're not gonna get a Muslim terrorist who is not an extremist, so you might as well combine the two. How come the gov't didn't consider not reading the Miranda rights to the converted Islam white guys in Virginia who were planning terrorist attacks against the country? They went to Pakistan. They trained there just as Shahzad. They practice the same religion, but because they're not Muslim, they had no problems reading them their rights, so you might as well confuse the two because like it or not, this country does have a problem with Muslims. It ain't going away.
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windy95
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 7:51 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 34):
Quoting windy95 (Reply 33):

Other small minded Americans (some on this site) seem to think that the only threat is coming from FOX news (why all the threads on it?), Sarah Palin (why all the threads on her?) and the Tea party.

What threat? I make fun of Fox News, and Sarah Palin. A threat? A threat to what? Common sense in America? Your assumption is laughable.

If they where not a threat you would not give them the time of day. My assumption is dead on. Your obsession with them is the only thing that is laughable.
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 7:56 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 35):
If they where not a threat you would not give them the time of day. My assumption is dead on. Your obsession with them is the only thing that is laughable.

As I said, I make fun of these things because they're funny to us liberals. If I thought Sarah Palin even had the slightest chance to make it into the white house, I would be worried, on account of our country would probably collapse. Other than that she's a joke.
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 7:56 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 34):
Don't treat one extremist group different than the other,

So even though there are organized Islamic Fundamentalist terror groups throughout the Middle East and South Asia that have shown they are willing to attack on US soil, we should devote the same resources to domestic terrorists, most of which are just lone crazy people? That seems like endangering the country for the sake of political correctness.
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 8:54 pm

Quoting newark777 (Reply 37):
So even though there are organized Islamic Fundamentalist terror groups throughout the Middle East and South Asia that have shown they are willing to attack on US soil, we should devote the same resources to domestic terrorists, most of which are just lone crazy people? That seems like endangering the country for the sake of political correctness.

Thank you for proving my point. People look at Shahzad like an international Muslim extremist, but lets compare notes. The 6 Americans they arrested in Virginia practices Islam, just as Shahzad (I assume). They trained, Just as Shahzad. They were American citizens, just as Shahzad, and they all wanted to harm this country, just as Shahzad. Only problem is, they're seen as domestic terrorists, and he's seen as middle eastern terrorist. Why is that? If somebody answers this question, i'll go to work tonight a very a pleased individual.

Fact of the matter is, terrorists, are terrorists. If you capture six born Americans, preferably black or Caucasian plotting to blow jetliners, the should be treated with the same scrutiny as a guy named Ahmed from Pakistan, who is also an American citizen.

And to answer your question, yes, the same resources should be devoted to domestic terrorists, probably even more now, because I believe they pose as dangerous a threat as a guy living in the middle east.
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 9:46 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 38):
and they all wanted to harm this country

I thought those arrested in Virginia were after India.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 38):
Only problem is, they're seen as domestic terrorists, and he's seen as middle eastern terrorist. Why is that?

I believe I may have been unclear with my wording, my beef isn't so much the difference between domestic and foreign terrorists, it is the view by some that Islamic Fundamentalism is not the biggest threat out there, because of a select few incidents (McVeigh, et al.).

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 38):

Fact of the matter is, terrorists, are terrorists. If you capture six born Americans, preferably black or Caucasian plotting to blow jetliners, the should be treated with the same scrutiny as a guy named Ahmed from Pakistan, who is also an American citizen.

Agreed. But the odds are that they are converts to Islam.
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 10:03 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 34):
I didn't say anything about ignoring the threat. I just think it's important to point out that domestic cells have the ability to be just as dangerous as Muslims.

But they are not.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 34):

IT SHOULD NOT MATTER. Islam extremists, Christian extremists, Jewish extremists, they are all the same thing.

Bullcr--. Christian extremists are not trying to blowing up airplanes. Buddhist extremists are not beheading Americans. Jewish extremists are not trying set off car bombs in marketplaces and embassies.

Here is the key question: Do you understand the difference between Islam (the religion) and Islamism (not the religion)?

That's the part that people, even after a decade, still refuse to understand.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 38):

And to answer your question, yes, the same resources should be devoted to domestic terrorists, probably even more now, because I believe they pose as dangerous a threat as a guy living in the middle east.

Again, Bullcr--. You believe that because it plays into your prejudices. The people opposed to Obama have not threatened any sort of violence against him or anyone else, apart from a royal kick in the ass at the ballot box.

Sure you have a few mountain men running around, but they've been around for many decades, and with the exception of OKC, the FBI and other law enforcement have them pretty much under control. The idea that you would think that a car bomb in Times Square has an equal chance of being from them as from Islamist terrorists is ignorant. Even the most jaded, anti-government mountain men would not set off a bomb in Times Square or any other civilian target. They would go after a government office.
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 10:24 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 40):
But they are not.

Says who? It just so happens that our intelligence agency have caught them slipping every time. How many people will die before we actually realize it?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 40):
Bullcr--. Christian extremists are not trying to blowing up airplanes. Buddhist extremists are not beheading Americans. Jewish extremists are not trying set off car bombs in marketplaces and embassies.

So the Hitari guys in Southern Michigan weren't trying to kill cops in order to wage against the gov't then right. The problem with you and other conservatives is that you guys don't see the problem until American people are killed, then you pay attention

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 40):

Here is the key question: Do you understand the difference between Islam (the religion) and Islamism (not the religion)?

Yes, but people who practice Islamism, still practice Islam as a religion. Islamism might not be a religion, but people who adhere to it's political ideologies adhere to the religious aspects of those ideologies.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 40):
Even the most jaded, anti-government mountain men would not set off a bomb in Times Square or any other civilian target. They would go after a government office.

Doesn't matter. The fact that they're willing to attack our country, is grounds for them to be called terrorists as well as having them under the same scrutiny as Muslim terrorists. But it's too bad that you're too busy making excuses for them claiming that they would never attack civilians, to see that yes, they are terrorists. Their intention is to undermine the US gov't and attack American citizens. Doesn't make them any different from the jihadis.
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 10:46 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 41):
So the Hitari guys in Southern Michigan weren't trying to kill cops in order to wage against the gov't then right. The problem with you and other conservatives is that you guys don't see the problem until American people are killed, then you pay attention

Excuse me for worrying about people who making regular and active attempts at causing mayhem more than those who talk tough but have rarely ever done anything more than that.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 41):

Yes, but people who practice Islamism, still practice Islam as a religion. Islamism might not be a religion, but people who adhere to it's political ideologies adhere to the religious aspects of those ideologies.

You miss the point. Islamism is the extension of Islam into all aspects of life, not just religious. Islam is a religion and as such is as legitimate as any other religion. Islamism is a brutal philosophy of dictatorship and oppression, and is as legitimate an institution as Nazism. It is unfortunate that the names are so close, because some people simply don't see the difference.

As long as we don't make it clear to each other and to the world what the difference is and declare our open hostility to Islamism (but not Islam), then we will never make any progress.
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 11:25 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 42):
As long as we don't make it clear to each other and to the world what the difference is and declare our open hostility to Islamism (but not Islam), then we will never make any progress.

Tell that to the scores of Americans who would rather direct their anger at the religion rather the political ideology of islamism
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 11:41 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 43):

Tell that to the scores of Americans who would rather direct their anger at the religion rather the political ideology of islamism

Way to dodge the issue... NOT.

Yes or no - Is Islamism (now that you know what Islamism is as opposed to Islam) is the main motivator for unknown thousands of people to try to kill westerners in general, preferably Americans?

Yes or no - Are mountain men as much of a 'clear and present danger' (to borrow a phrase) to Americans as Islamist terrorists?

How often have they acted on their threats?

How many have they killed in the past decade?

Of those that have done something bad, how many have not been caught and are still running around?

How many have Islamists killed?

How many of those guys running around?

And lets go wild a minute and assume that either one of these groups achieve their goals. Would you prefer to live in a country run the way the mountain men want (i.e. virtually no federal government), or in a country run by Islamists?

[Edited 2010-05-05 16:42:25]
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Wed May 05, 2010 11:49 pm

Well sir, we probably devote more time and money towards Islamists and are more reactant to them because there are SO MANY MORE CASES. I daresay you'll never be able to stop all random extremism, those Christian extremists and other small groups will always pop up at random. But we haven't seen consistent actions of other religious extemism. How should we stop Christian extremism? And besides the Michigan folks, where are the other alledged Christian extremists? We go after Islamists because they are a way bigger problem. (And I do have Muslim friends, a disclaimer just in case...)
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Thu May 06, 2010 12:19 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 32):
There is apparently a clause in the most recent anti-terrorism law from a couple of years ago that allows American citizens to be detained as enemy combatants

I think that the law was written in such a way as to exclude Americans on home soil and domestic terrorism. i.e. American citizens can be detained as enemy combatants abroad, or if they have sworn allegiance to an enemy that the US is currently at war with they can be detained on US soil. However, the US is not currently at war (it is constitutionally considered a military action) and so the last provision would not apply. Never mind the fact that to prove that someone's allegiance is to a foreign power while on US soil is nearly impossible.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 40):
Sure you have a few mountain men running around, but they've been around for many decades, and with the exception of OKC, the FBI and other law enforcement have them pretty much under control.

I agree. However, I think the reason they are under control, and that we don't hear about domestic terrorism as much is because it is a hell of a lot easier and cheaper for the FBI and other government agencies to keep tabs of people within the US. It is significantly harder to keep tabs on peoples actions outside of the US. Especially as travel around the world is so easy. Today you can wake up in SIN and fall asleep half way around the world the same night in NYC. Plus, the money required to track anyone that is remotely suspicious does not usually have a good return on investment.
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seb146
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Thu May 06, 2010 1:56 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
Chief Wacko network MSNBC has been airing how bummed out they are that the Times Square bomber was a muslim - they were really hoping for a tea party member.

So close, yet so far away. Did you listen to anything else she said? From this comment, I am guessing not. She made a very valid point. This will, as she pointed out, add fuel to the fire of people with brown skin who worship Allah.

Quoting newark777 (Reply 19):
Watch the equivalent shows on MSNBC and you will see that is not the case.

I do and what I hear is "why are these right-wing people doing this?" and "Don't they understand?"

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 40):
Do you understand the difference between Islam (the religion) and Islamism (not the religion)?

That's the part that people, even after a decade, still refuse to understand.

Mostly on the right do not fully understand.
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Thu May 06, 2010 2:14 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 47):
Mostly on the right do not fully understand.

Implying that the left know better? Explain why, since Obama came to office, how the word 'Islamist' has been almost completely eliminated from the administration's vocabulary. If they know the difference, then they want us to lose.

And before you respond saying that I think Obama is a traitor, no. He's not smart enough to be a traitor. I think he's just a moron politician more interested in his own socio-economic agenda and doesn't have a clue of the rest of the world.
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RE: Fox News Pushes Obama Oil Spill Conspiracy

Thu May 06, 2010 3:03 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 44):
And lets go wild a minute and assume that either one of these groups achieve their goals. Would you prefer to live in a country run the way the mountain men want (i.e. virtually no federal government), or in a country run by Islamists?

That's very sensationalist. But speaking irrationally for a second, i'd rather the islamic state, on account of guys have the most power   
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