seemyseems
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Gordon Brown To Step Down

Mon May 10, 2010 4:50 pm

Quite a shock, especially as he said he would stay on.

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seemyseems
 
kaitak
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Mon May 10, 2010 4:56 pm

Constitutionally, he was/is obliged to remain as PM and presumably he will remain as Labour leader until one of the Millibands is ready. I'm sure people were lining up to tell him that it was time to go; as long as he was in power, Labour had no chance of winning a new election. A new leader and a fresh start is what needed; the new government under DC will have very bumpy ride and I can't see it lasting; many on both sides (Lib Dem and Tory) are against it, so if Labour can take the time to regroup, it could conceivably make it in next time.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Mon May 10, 2010 5:47 pm

This is a cynical attempt to woo the Liberal Democrats into a Labour-led coalition, a coalition that would clearly not represent the true wishes of the country. A final, desperate, disgusting act from this disgusting man who has made a career out of ignoring us.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
MasterBean
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Mon May 10, 2010 6:38 pm

Lets face it, this whole party coalition thing is rubbish, and we'll have a general election soon. As my mum said, the guy with the least votes (Cleggy) is deciding what the country wants, even though the country decided they don't want him. We're all screwed, bring on another election.
 
EI320
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Mon May 10, 2010 7:00 pm

It was only a matter of time really, a new leader is what Labour needs to move forward. David Miliband has already been mentioned as a possible successor.

Quoting MasterBean (Reply 3):
As my mum said, the guy with the least votes (Cleggy) is deciding what the country wants, even though the country decided they don't want him.

I wouldn't necessarily agree here, what the electorate have shown is that they don't really know what they want - hence the hung parliament. If either of the two main parties had won by a clear majority we wouldn't be in this situation.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Mon May 10, 2010 7:04 pm

Quoting EI320 (Reply 4):
It was only a matter of time really, a new leader is what Labour needs to move forward. David Miliband has already been mentioned as a possible successor.

That's fine, but to move forward how? If it's as the opposition then fine, as that's where the people said they wanted them to be. If it's as an unwanted and unelected government then it is simply sickening.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
Danfearn77
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Mon May 10, 2010 7:06 pm

Quoting EI320 (Reply 4):
Quoting MasterBean (Reply 3):
As my mum said, the guy with the least votes (Cleggy) is deciding what the country wants, even though the country decided they don't want him.

I wouldn't necessarily agree here, what the electorate have shown is that they don't really know what they want - hence the hung parliament. If either of the two main parties had won by a clear majority we wouldn't be in this situation.

I think what he was getting at is the man who came third (Clegg) is now in the driving seat and that is just wrong. He is playing or will play Labour off with the Conservatives and choose the best option. He should not have such power.

All i can say about Gordon Brown is good riddance. For 13 miserable years you have been number two and number one in a Government which has wrecked Britain and so many will be glad to see the back of you.
Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
 
Rj111
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Mon May 10, 2010 9:06 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 2):
This is a cynical attempt to woo the Liberal Democrats into a Labour-led coalition, a coalition that would clearly not represent the true wishes of the country. A final, desperate, disgusting act from this disgusting man who has made a career out of ignoring us.

Oh yawn, what would you have been saying if he hadn't announced this?  

He had to leave now and he's made his mistakes, but for his faults, i think he was a decent, hard-working man who isn't in politics for his own gain. His treatment from Murdoch's media has been utterly shameless.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Mon May 10, 2010 9:27 pm

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 7):
Oh yawn, what would you have been saying if he hadn't announced this?

Tired? I would have been saying that it would give us a better chance of securing a coalition that better reflected the nation's wishes. That's what I'd be saying. Then, after all had been settled, I would want him to leave as party leader.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
Rj111
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Mon May 10, 2010 9:50 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 8):
I would have been saying that it would give us a better chance of securing a coalition that better reflected the nation's wishes.

Huh? The Tories have failed to form a majority government, and if they fail to come to a compromise with the Liberals this is Browns fault?

This notion that the nation necessarily wants a Con-Lib coalition because Cons had more votes is simplistic also.

By the same logic you could argue the nation's wishes are a Con-Lab government which is obviously ridiculous.

[Edited 2010-05-10 14:52:15]
 
EI320
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Mon May 10, 2010 10:15 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 5):
That's fine, but to move forward how? If it's as the opposition then fine, as that's where the people said they wanted them to be. If it's as an unwanted and unelected government then it is simply sickening.

As opposition I expect. It's only fair that David Cameron gets a spell in No.10 now despite the fact that he failed to secure an overall majority. He's clearly the preferred candidate and no one can dispute that.

Quoting danfearn77 (Reply 6):
He is playing or will play Labour off with the Conservatives and choose the best option. He should not have such power.

It's not the ideal situation by any means. But the Lib Dems, as you would expect, will make the most of it - as would any party in their situation.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Mon May 10, 2010 10:33 pm

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 9):
By the same logic you could argue the nation's wishes are a Con-Lab government which is obviously ridiculous.

If you wanted to reduce the argument to such empirical levels as to bear no relevance to the actual situation, then yes - you would be right. In terms of what is actually going on here, no.

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 9):
This notion that the nation necessarily wants a Con-Lib coalition because Cons had more votes is simplistic also.

The Conservative party secured more votes and seats than any other party. It is clear they have the biggest mandate to lead the country, and clear that the only way this can actually now be achieved best is with Lib Dem support. The whole stupid system can be described as simplistic and rather undemocratic, but here we are anyway.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
Rj111
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Mon May 10, 2010 11:08 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 11):
If you wanted to reduce the argument to such empirical levels as to bear no relevance to the actual situation, then yes - you would be right. In terms of what is actually going on here, no.

I don't see why it is irrelevant. Lib voters voted for Lib policies so if the Lib politicians find them to be too incompatible with Tories' then the Lib voters are likely to have done too.

The set of procedures behind a hung parliament are not without thought. The parties are negotiating on behalf of their voters now, and in effect, on behalf of the nation.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 12:14 am

democracy - why bother??? What a waste of time...

Good riddance to bad rubbish. It's a pity the next PM will be the same shit different name though.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Danfearn77
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 12:45 am

Quoting EI320 (Reply 10):

don't get me wrong I agree with you and any party would do the same if they were in Clegg's position. But I think it is bad that the 3 most popular party in the UK can have so much power in determining the next Government. They came third, only 22%~ Of the public voted them yet they now have more power than the Torries or Labour in a way. Wrong.
Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
 
jm017
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 1:10 am

As an outsider, let me ask a question: why was Gordon Brown so unpopular? I know he seemed out of touch with the people. Was that it?

Quoting EI320 (Reply 10):
As opposition I expect. It's only fair that David Cameron gets a spell in No.10 now despite the fact that he failed to secure an overall majority. He's clearly the preferred candidate and no one can dispute that.

True enough. But in government like these, with no outright majority, it's all about coalitions. Aren't the libs closer in policy to Labour?
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
TristarAtLCA
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 1:14 am

The argument that because Cameron fell 19 short (and it will be 18 when the Tories win a safe seat in the delayed election up North) this somehow means a Lib-Lab coalition, who even combined cannot generate a majority, have any sort of mandate to govern is just laughable and will create the second successive unelected PM in row, despite having an election possibly just a week past.
If you was right..................I'd agree with you
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 1:40 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 2):
This is a cynical attempt to woo the Liberal Democrats into a Labour-led coalition, a coalition that would clearly not represent the true wishes of the country. A final, desperate, disgusting act from this disgusting man who has made a career out of ignoring us.

How do you figure? Together, the Lib-Lab pair earned 52 percent of the vote, to the Tories' 36 percent. Seems to me that a government advocating shared policies of Liberal Democrats and Labour would be preferred over a government run by Conservative policies. For that matter, the Tory-Liberal pair earned 59 percent of the vote, so a government run according to shared policies of those parties would also be preferred over a Labour-policy government.

Quoting MasterBean (Reply 3):
Lets face it, this whole party coalition thing is rubbish

Works pretty well in lots of other democracies.

Quoting danfearn77 (Reply 6):
I think what he was getting at is the man who came third (Clegg) is now in the driving seat and that is just wrong. He is playing or will play Labour off with the Conservatives and choose the best option. He should not have such power.

Why not? It's pretty clear that no party has the mandate of a majority of the electorate - both in the MP totals, and even more so in the popular vote - so it's not like the British people have agreed that they want Cameron as their leader. Clegg's block of voters is a full 60% of the size of Cameron's, so it's not like he's some trivial third party. And whatever coalition is formed, Clegg's not going to be in charge. Choosing who's going to be in power is a much smaller degree of authority than actually being in power.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 2:09 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 17):
For that matter, the Tory-Liberal pair earned 59 percent of the vote, so a government run according to shared policies of those parties would also be preferred over a Labour-policy government.

Precisely, and most importantly would not involve one of the most reviled governments of our time maintaining the top spot. That is what this is about.
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YVRLTN
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 5:46 am

Quoting MasterBean (Reply 3):
Lets face it, this whole party coalition thing is rubbish

Check out the current situation in Canada - and its not as unusual here as it is in Britain. Funnily enough, Canada is probably one of the stronger nations in the world right now. Who knows if theres any correllation...

Quoting seemyseems (Thread starter):
Quite a shock

Really? Seems to me neither he personally or the Labour party had much choice if they didnt win the election.
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babybus
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 6:08 am

Although I think he did a great job under very difficult circumstances, while Tony Blair cowardly ran off before it hit the fan, I think Gordon's comments to that 'bigot' woman showed just how overstuffed he is with himself and not really concerned with what the public want or think. I didn't want to believe it but maybe he is the bully they say he is.

If they change the Labour leader I'll vote for the next one.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
GDB
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 6:08 am

If a Tory government had come second but with a hung Parliament, the situation would be the same, it's the system.
You really have to get to 326 seats to properly win.
We are just not used to this since it has not happened for 36 years.

Since, we have had government, Labour and Conservative, with total, unchallenged control, 100+ seats, though with actual share of the vote around 40%
You can argue that is not fair either.
In the UK, a large majority has been called a 'elected dictatorship'.

Question - would we have got into Iraq with a Coalition government?
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 6:45 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 21):
Since, we have had government, Labour and Conservative, with total, unchallenged control, 100+ seats, though with actual share of the vote around 40%
You can argue that is not fair either.

John Cleese (of Monty Python fame) on the need for PR, from a 1987 broadcast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSUKMa1cYHk
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
Mir
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 7:24 am

Quoting danfearn77 (Reply 14):
But I think it is bad that the 3 most popular party in the UK can have so much power in determining the next Government. They came third, only 22%~ Of the public voted them yet they now have more power than the Torries or Labour in a way. Wrong.

You get the same thing in the US where a very small number of states get to decide the presidential election.

-Mir
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OA260
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 7:25 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 2):
This is a cynical attempt to woo the Liberal Democrats into a Labour-led coalition,

Indeed so obvious its cringe material. Good ridence.
 
vc10
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 8:43 am

What I find odd in this horse trading situation is

1] Labour and Liberals are not only the 2nd and 3rd most popular parties,but they are also the only two parties that lost seats when compared to the number they held in the last election, which to my mind suggests that the population liked them less this time than last time. Even so they still have the cheek to say they should rule,

2] Even if labour and liberal do get into bed together they did so bad between them that they still could not form a government and would have to go horse trading to the SNP , which I think would not go down too wel with the majority of the population

littlevc10
 
Danfearn77
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 10:16 am

Quoting JM017 (Reply 15):
As an outsider, let me ask a question: why was Gordon Brown so unpopular? I know he seemed out of touch with the people. Was that it?

He was not a people man. And personally i thought he was scruffy and unkept. He never looked like a leader when on stage with Obama or other World leaders. He also led a party which become deeply unpopular, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan didnt help the party, along with a whole host of other problems in the UK. The justice system, immigration and the rise in crime/anti social behaviour can only be put down to the Governing party and Brown was the leader of that.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 17):
Why not? It's pretty clear that no party has the mandate of a majority of the electorate - both in the MP totals, and even more so in the popular vote - so it's not like the British people have agreed that they want Cameron as their leader. Clegg's block of voters is a full 60% of the size of Cameron's, so it's not like he's some trivial third party. And whatever coalition is formed, Clegg's not going to be in charge. Choosing who's going to be in power is a much smaller degree of authority than actually being in power.

He might be a force in politics now but the fact is he has come 3rd, yet he is pulling all the strings and thats whats bothers me. And the fact that a Lib-Lab coalition, with smaller parties, also bothers me. Not only one because i am a Conservative voter, but because of the system which will allow the 2nd and 3rd placed parties to form a Government even though they are unpopular with the electorate. I know its the system but...

Quoting vc10 (Reply 25):
Labour and Liberals are not only the 2nd and 3rd most popular parties,but they are also the only two parties that lost seats when compared to the number they held in the last election, which to my mind suggests that the population liked them less this time than last time. Even so they still have the cheek to say they should rule,

Just read this now but exactly the point i tried to make above.   
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Yellowstone
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 11:35 am

Quoting vc10 (Reply 25):
,but they are also the only two parties that lost seats when compared to the number they held in the last election, which to my mind suggests that the population liked them less this time than last time. Even so they still have the cheek to say they should rule,

Why is the direction of the vote swing relevant? If in one election the Labour candidate beats his Tory opponent 60-40, and in the next wins 51-49, would you suggest kicking out that MP? Surely not.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
Glom
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 12:15 pm

I was warming to the idea of STV, or more appropriately I was becoming less opposed. There are some attributes about it that I like, such as being able to kick out a candidate you don't like without voting against the party. Apparently, the Irish have a knack for that.

Part of my softening was I was becoming less opposed to hung parliaments in perpetuity. The Scottish experience of the winner forming a minority administration and then battling with the legislature to get his programme through sounds okay. But now we have this situation, where the guy who came third is possibly going to decide prop up the guy who came second and shut out the guy who came first. This experience I'm not liking. What I wanted was for Clegg to decide if he could or could not support the Conservatives based on their talks. If he chose not to, then he would allow Cameron to try to govern as a minority. A deal with Labour shouldn't be on the table.

This is experience is making me warm to a more Presidential system.
 
baroque
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 12:19 pm

A bit puzzling to know what some folk want. The Cons got what, 36% of the vote and have less than 50% of the seats so at best a minority government. Presumably a Cons minority government would not be a particularly stable solution.

While coalitions involve compromise, this is hardly a "commodity" that is not required within a government formed by a party with a majority.

At least with a declared coalition, the compromises would be in the open. Some of the worst compromises in Aus have occurred through a majority government bribing a tiny minority within the Senate.

As Yellowstone posts, Labs + Libs = 52%, what makes that 52% worth less than a part of the 48%?

And as Yellowstone writes, what significance does the swing direction have. And in any case, the loss of seats by Lab and Lib/Dems is only part of the story, the Lib/Dems actually increased their vote by a percentage point while they were busy losing seat.

My my, if the hate of Gordon B could be turned into a positive force, the UK would be out of its problems in no time at all.
 
Rj111
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 5:08 pm

Lot of rumours that a deal between the Libs and Tories is imminent.
 
GDB
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 6:21 pm

Much as I would to see a real 'progressive coalition', the numbers now are not there.
Con-Dem (not to tempt fate?) works in numbers and it better reflects the election result.

Anyway, a minority Tory government would be much more prone to pressure from smaller parties given the numbers and their minority status.
We've seen it in governments who have lost their majorities after bi-elections or just lost enough to make rebellious elements in their own MP's - as happened more recently under Major, more powerful, adding to the trouble when voting bills through.

If it is a real Coalition, some itchy footed Tory MP's are not going to be happy. Not the ministry job after all.

I'd still not bet on the coalition last a full term in parliament though.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 6:25 pm

And off he goes to the Queen. Gordon and Labour are finally over - this calls for a beer   
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
GDB
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 7:19 pm

A dignified exit, a complex man, with flaws, like all PM's, it will be important to him that he goes after losing an election, though not as badly as many predicted, rather than by some internal party coup.
The party now about to (somewhat) take over, took a decade or more to get over their own coup against a sitting PM.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8676271.stm

Off to see 'Brenda' who will now ask Mr Cameron to form a government.

[Edited 2010-05-11 12:32:52]
 
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OA260
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 7:21 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 32):
And off he goes to the Queen. Gordon and Labour are finally over - this calls for a beer   

Indeed its finally over      
 
Rj111
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 7:23 pm

Classy exit.

Clegg is now Deputy PM.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 7:43 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 33):
Off to see 'Brenda' who will now ask Mr Cameron to form a government.

Classy exit Mr. Gordon Brown!

Now, I am not sure what Mr Cameron will be doing that's any better as to restoring the British economy and the people (working class) buying power.

The citizens will probably have to pay a hefty price with austerity measures with a conservative government while the wealthy class will still be enjoying the good life with even more favours from a conservative government, wealth tax cuts, much more so than with the Labour government.

Somehow I don't like David Cameron though I wish him success restoring the UK economy if he becomes the next Prime Minister. Wait and see.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 7:47 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 36):

Somehow I don't like David Cameron though I wish him success restoring the UK economy if he becomes the next Prime Minister. Wait and see.

He is the UK Prime Minister now. Cuts are going to be wide and far reaching, if you look at the distribution of earners against those who pay the highest taxes, it's pretty obvious that the wealthy are going to be digging deep - although obviously they are better seated to afford it.
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
GDB
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 8:02 pm

An equally dignified entrance from PM David Cameron at Downing Street.

Looks young and unlined now, the weight of the office will, as always, change that.
But Cameron has extra pressures, economically and politically.

A Coalition as expected, and with the election result, required.
The first since the 'National Government' formed in 1940 to 1945.
It was that leader, after his second term as PM after 1951, who was the Queen's first Minister.
Winston Churchill.

First business now, high level security briefings, receiving congratulatory calls from world leaders, one of the first will be from President Obama.

So the usual British instant transition of power, just this time we had a 5 day interval after the vote!
Rather than the morning after.

I'm not a Tory voter, however Cameron is I think more of a pragmatist than one driven by ideology, considering his situation, just as well, he's had to demonstrate this clearly in the past few days and has succeded.
 
kaitak
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 8:03 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 37):
although obviously they are better seated to afford it.

... or to get the hell out!

I would like to wish DC good luck; I don't particularly welcome his premiership. I think the UK is in for some savage cuts across many areas and I think he will have a fight on his hands in many areas. And of course, as an aviation enthusiast, I dread to think what will be proposed. I think we can expect to see R3 at Heathrow canned pretty soon, so that'll have to stay dormant until Labour get back in. And what of proposals to put a cap on individuals' flying, which had been mooted a few years back (but swiftly retracted); are they going to try something like this?

Anyway, I can't help thinking what goes through a new PM's mind the first time he walks through the front door of No.10, having been asked by HM to form a new government; it must be humbling, daunting and exciting - the realisation of dreams which took root decades before.

As I write this, I'm watching Sky News and DC is now speaking; he has thanked Gordon Brown, which was good. He has committed himself to a coalition with the LDs. Now don't keep yapping too long, Dave; Obama will be on the phone soon!
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 8:20 pm

Cameron and Boris, scions of royal blood

Research by the website findmypast.co.uk has revealed that the two most prominent men in the Conservative Party (Johnson is the most popular) are descended by royal birth from King George II (1683-1760) - albeit from the wrong side of the blanket.

Cameron and Johnson are, in fact, eighth cousins.

Read the Full Article
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...is-Johnson-scions-royal-blood.html
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
TristarAtLCA
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 8:22 pm

We have the only coalition which would be acceptable to most people in the UK and good luck to it for as long as it lasts.

On his last hour in the job Brown sounded like the statesman most where crying out for the last three years. I wish him well but am overjoyed to see the back of him and his government.

Interesting to hear Simon Hughes being strongly critical of Labour's negotiating tactics. Implying that they made no real attempt to deal.
If you was right..................I'd agree with you
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 8:32 pm

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 41):
We have the only coalition which would be acceptable to most people in the UK and good luck to it for as long as it lasts.

Unless I am wrong, Nick Clegg is a left winger. How is this going to work between him and an elitist conservative such as Mr Camron?

I don't see how these two could ever get along on setting up new social, financial and economic plans.

   
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
TristarAtLCA
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:16 pm

RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 8:46 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 42):
Unless I am wrong, Nick Clegg is a left winger. How is this going to work between him and an elitist conservative such as Mr Camron?

Interesting you say that MC, because if you had seen their backgrounds without knowing their allegiances you would probably pick Clegg as the Tory. He had a more priveleged upbringing than Cameron.

As to how this is going work is anybody's guess. The Tories have apparently dropped their inheritance tax and married tax allowance (a stupid idea in the first place) plans, but we haven't heard yet what the Lib's have dealt on. More info needed really MC.
If you was right..................I'd agree with you
 
anstar
Posts: 2862
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 8:47 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 42):
Unless I am wrong, Nick Clegg is a left winger. How is this going to work between him and an elitist conservative such as Mr Camron?

I don't see how these two could ever get along on setting up new social, financial and economic plans.

They will initially agree on areas where they have commonality and after that*...

A NEW GENERAL ELECTION!


*1,2,3, or 6 months.
 
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OA260
Posts: 20983
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 8:58 pm

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 43):
but we haven't heard yet what the Lib's have dealt on.

Their immigration amnesty !! Thank god
 
Ken777
Posts: 9021
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 8:59 pm

Quoting danfearn77 (Reply 14):
They came third, only 22%~ Of the public voted them yet they now have more power than the Torries or Labour in a way. Wrong.

That is what you end up with when you have as many parties as the UK has. Personally I believe that it brings a bit of a check on the senior party as a vote of no confidence is available.

The only question I have is why the Scots didn't at least try to gain some leverage.

Quoting Mir (Reply 23):
You get the same thing in the US where a very small number of states get to decide the presidential election.

Ain't that the truth. Gore won the popular vote at the national level, but our queer system of electing a President ensured that Bush won. Actually, the Supreme Court helped out a lot also.

Quoting Glom (Reply 28):
This is experience is making me warm to a more Presidential system.

Don't be. With the Westminster system you can get an election quickly through a vote of no confidence. We're stuck with our President for 4 years.
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 9:06 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 46):
That is what you end up with when you have as many parties as the UK has. Personally I believe that it brings a bit of a check on the senior party as a vote of no confidence is available.

Agreed. It makes no real odds about how much or not, the Lib Dems share of the vote was, aside from the fact that they gained some 800,000 votes more than in 2005 - hence their dislike of the current system - if the biggest party has not got a majority they have to deal with whoever they realistically could.

It would be worse for back room deals, day after day, to try as a minority government.

Politics, rational politics that is, demands compromise.
This coalition is just another aspect of it.

Cameron's first speech as PM;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8676398.stm

[Edited 2010-05-11 14:09:01]
 
TristarAtLCA
Posts: 636
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:16 pm

RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 9:07 pm

Quoting oa260 (Reply 45):

Their immigration amnesty !! Thank god

Has that been confirmed? I assumed it would be one of the conditions.
If you was right..................I'd agree with you
 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Gordon Brown To Step Down

Tue May 11, 2010 10:01 pm

Bring back Hitler, all is forgiven.

The UK is now being run by a complete tw&t.
Oh well....
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!

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