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OA260
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Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Wed May 26, 2010 9:47 pm

Hungary's decision to allow ethnic Hungarians living abroad to apply for dual citizenship has sparked an angry response from neighbouring Slovakia.

Slovakia has voted to amend its own citizenship law, stripping anyone of their Slovak citizenship if they apply for Hungarian nationality.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10166610.stm

Not very bright an idea for an EU country.
 
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OA412
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Wed May 26, 2010 10:37 pm

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
Not very bright an idea for an EU country.

Indeed. Fairly idiotic on the part of the Slovak government. I don't profess to know EU law, but I'm fairly certain that there can be repercussions for Slovakia.
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Wed May 26, 2010 10:56 pm

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
Slovakia has voted to amend its own citizenship law, stripping anyone of their Slovak citizenship if they apply for Hungarian nationality.

That's incorrect. Under the new law, applying for any citizenship (except Czech) means giving up Slovak citizenship. Good thing I already have my Canadian citizenship  . And just in case they would make it retroactive, I'd apply for Hungarian.



Quoting OA412 (Reply 1):

Indeed. Fairly idiotic on the part of the Slovak government. I don't profess to know EU law, but I'm fairly certain that there can be repercussions for Slovakia.

I don't think so. If the law would single out Hungarian citizenship, there could be problems. However, it's not the case. Czech Republic and Austria don't allow dual citizenship either.

OTOH I fully agree that it's an idiotic move. But what would you expect from a bolshevik/nationalist coalition anyway?

Edit: Under the current constitution this new bill may be unconstitutional. The constitution says that no Slovak citizen may be stripped of his citizenship.

[Edited 2010-05-26 16:01:29]
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Wed May 26, 2010 11:01 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 1):
Fairly idiotic on the part of the Slovak government.

This crisis has been brewing for quite a while and both sides are to blame.
Fico and Slota from the governing parties in Slovakia are both populist a-holes (Slota in particular) and they did everything to pitch the Hungarian minority in southern Slovakia against their own country passing ridiculous legislation on the use of language, which I think is much more problematic than the citizenship law in question.
On the other hand Hungarian wet dreams about "Greater" Hungary in pre-Trianon borders (which I suspect is the true motive behind the Hungarian citizenship initiative) have been making nervous last couple of years everyone from Ljubljana to Bucharest to Bratislava. This recent move with handing out passports to ethnic Hungarians abroad... a carbon copy of what Russia has been doing in Georgia recently the and we've seen the ends of it.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 1):
but I'm fairly certain that there can be repercussions for Slovakia

I doubt it. Laws which prevent dual/multiple citizenships where one citizenship automatically ceases to exist when other is adopted are far from unique. The utilitarian way how the law was passed sure raises some eyebrows.
 
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Thu May 27, 2010 7:59 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 2):
But what would you expect from a bolshevik/nationalist coalition anyway?

Let's not get carried away, Fico is not a Bolshevik. Smer is a centre-left party, more to the tune of social democracy than downright socialism, albeit a bit more nationalistic than most social democrats. Never understood how they came to be in a coalition with the Slovak National Party, a far right, ultranationalist, and largely anti-hungarian party.

I fully agree that such a coalition sure makes for political weirdness, though...

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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Thu May 27, 2010 8:32 am

I think that there should be a similar situation that we have in the UK and Ireland , you are allowed both. I know its a different political situation but isnt this supposed to be the EU?
 
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Thu May 27, 2010 10:55 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 3):
This recent move with handing out passports to ethnic Hungarians abroad... a carbon copy of what Russia has been doing in Georgia recently the and we've seen the ends of it.

That's scaremongering.

Both countries are in the EU, any Slovak can freely live and work in Hungary and vice-versa (though they can't vote on national elections). Really, I can't see Hungary recognising an independent Magyar state in Romania or Slovakia anymore than I see Germany recognising an independent Alsatia or Polish Silesia or Italy claiming Capodistria, Fiume, etc.
 
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Thu May 27, 2010 11:09 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
I think that there should be a similar situation that we have in the UK and Ireland , you are allowed both. I know its a different political situation but isnt this supposed to be the EU?

My daughter has American and Polish while my son Irish and Polish. No one seem to have a problem with it.
The only thing to remember is when entring the country that you are citizen of you have to use this country's passport i.e. use American when entering USA, otherwise you will be refused entry.
 
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Thu May 27, 2010 12:26 pm

Quoting Doona (Reply 4):
Fico is not a Bolshevik.

Doona, please... Fico was an aggressive young communist. He's only couple of years older that me and I had the dubious pleasure to experience his kin during my university years. I don't believe he changed. Heck, he once said that he didn't even notice the November revolution...he remained in the communist party renamed as the Party of Democratic Left and was one of the most radical members. Later he separated from them and created Smer.

Smer is a centre - left party only in it's rhetoric. In fact, the current Slovak government spent the last 4 years with distributing the taxpayers money to selected individuals. The last project - road pricing - almost bow up into their faces. Not to mention that the state apparatus is abused to support private interests.

And how did they came together with SNS? Simple. They needed seats in the parliament to create a government and the right side parties - SDKU (this is the party I voted for in 1998), KDH (the party I voted for in 1994) and SMK wouldn't enter a coalition with the Smer. So only Meciar's HZDS and Slota's SNS remained.

And as for the current situation: people are being fed up with Smer and it's practices and elections are coming (May 12). Smer needs a deterrent, so they use the Hungarian card. It works always, since nationalism is alive and well in Slovakia. People who never saw a Hungarian hate them the most. The new Hungarian citizenship law was an welcome excuse to do something big. Show the Smer as a savior of Slovakia.
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Thu May 27, 2010 2:35 pm

Quoting JJJ (Reply 6):
Both countries are in the EU, any Slovak can freely live and work in Hungary and vice-versa (though they can't vote on national elections).



Not only that, many Hungarian businesses are registered now in Slovakia, since it's cheaper there than in Hungary and the corporate tax rate is lower and many Slovaks from BTS and KSC area live now in Hungary, since the houses there are cheaper...the EU is a beautiful thing, isn't it?

This whole citizenship thing is just a substitute problem and show for the most stupid portion of the electorate.
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Thu May 27, 2010 5:26 pm

The counter-move is stupid, but the move wasn't that bright either.
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Thu May 27, 2010 5:43 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 10):
The counter-move is stupid, but the move wasn't that bright either.

Why was the move not bright? Two EU nations , you should be allowed both.
 
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Thu May 27, 2010 6:55 pm

Because there is a way to gain a nationality, and being given it because of your ancestry is not one. There was no problem when it was a Slovak marrying a Hungarian, or even an "ethnic Hungarian" asking it after living X years in Hungary, but offering passports like that is a provocation.
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Thu May 27, 2010 8:13 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 12):
and being given it because of your ancestry is not one.

If you want it why not? The Irish offer it to anyone who has a Parent or Grandparent ( alive or dead ) who can claim they were born on the ''Island of Ireland''. Other countries also have similar rules.

There is no provocation anywhere.
 
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Thu May 27, 2010 8:44 pm

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
Hungary's decision to allow ethnic Hungarians living abroad to apply for dual citizenship has sparked an angry response from neighbouring Slovakia.

Slovakia has voted to amend its own citizenship law, stripping anyone of their Slovak citizenship if they apply for Hungarian nationality.

Why have the Slovaks done this? Is it in response to Hungarians in Slovakia?
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Thu May 27, 2010 9:23 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
I know its a different political situation but isnt this supposed to be the EU?

Why should member states cede their last bits of sovereignty over their own matters, to arrange their citizenship laws as they reasonably see fit to yet another one-size-fits-all legislation conceived in Brussels?

Quoting JJJ (Reply 6):
That's scaremongering.

I truly hope so as further deteriorioration of situation will benefit no one in Central Europe. Believe me.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 6):
Both countries are in the EU, any Slovak can freely live and work in Hungary and vice-versa (though they can't vote on national elections).

Which brings us back to square one, why bother with the passports now? AFAIK, Hungary already has some sort of ID cards for ethnic Hungarians living abroad which gives them preferential status in Hungary.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 9):
This whole citizenship thing is just a substitute problem and show for the most stupid portion of the electorate.

Well, that applies to both sides of the Danube. Anything comrade "Janosik" Fico does can't surprise me anymore although I do give him credit for having enough common sense in terms of economic policies to leave Dzurinda's reforms in place and just benefit from the "dirty work" and implement unpopular measures Dzurinda's government has done and which cost them dearly in elections.
On the other hand I thought Orbán would be smarter than this and have slightly different priorities how to capitalize on his sweeping election victory than to engage in some ridiculous bickering and irredentism. You know like trying to salvage the country from the mess socialists left behind.
 
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Thu May 27, 2010 10:00 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 15):
Why should member states cede their last bits of sovereignty over their own matters

The European Union is supposed to be a place where member states are in a Union and freedom of movement of peoples within the Union. This should apply to people choosing what passport of that EU country they wish to have if they are ethnically British/Irish/French/Dutch/Greek whatever. Whats the big issue?
 
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship L

Thu May 27, 2010 10:04 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 2):
Czech Republic and Austria don't allow dual citizenship either.

Are you sure about the Czech Republic? Martina Navratilova has both US and Czech citizenship as of 2008, as does former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.

And please pardon my ignorance, but one poster mentioned that issuing passports to be a threat of some sort, and I do not necessarily see the problem with this. Also, for those of us not entirely in the know what is the underlying tension between the Slovaks and Hungarians?

[Edited 2010-05-27 15:06:45]
 
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Thu May 27, 2010 10:36 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 15):
Anything comrade "Janosik" Fico does can't surprise me anymore although I do give him credit for having enough common sense in terms of economic policies to leave Dzurinda's reforms in place and just benefit from the "dirty work" and implement unpopular measures Dzurinda's government has done and which cost them dearly in elections.

It wasn't common sense. It was an absolute necessity for the financial groups that are sponsoring him. Moreover he knows very well that most of his electorate has a memory span of a hamster, so he doesn't have to keep his pre-election promises.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 15):
On the other hand I thought Orbán would be smarter than this and have slightly different priorities how to capitalize on his sweeping election victory than to engage in some ridiculous bickering and irredentism.

Actually, it was the easy one. Every Hungarian politician has this strange notion that he has to take care of foreign Hungarians. Part of it was to grant citizenship to them. It was easy to do, unlike solving Hungary's economic problems.
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Thu May 27, 2010 10:39 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
The European Union is supposed to be a place where member states are in a Union and freedom of movement of peoples within the Union. This should apply to people choosing what passport of that EU country they wish to have if they are ethnically British/Irish/French/Dutch/Greek whatever. Whats the big issue?

I'm not a nationalist at all, but if you're born and raised someplace, you should have that place nationality. Now if you want to make your life elsewhere and want that new place nationality (and keep the other), that's fine. But imagine if the UK announced that all or a significant part of the Irish could get the British nationality, don't you think it would cause massive outrage ? The UK would in fact be inciting people to "defect" to them.
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Thu May 27, 2010 10:49 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 19):
But imagine if the UK announced that all or a significant part of the Irish could get the British nationality, don't you think it would cause massive outrage ?

 

Hundreds of Irish opt for British passports due to industrial action

Hundreds of Irish citizens in the Republic are opting for British passports as the chaos continues at the Passport Office in Dublin.

The British embassy in Ballsbridge said it has been "inundated" with inquiries, despite the Civil Public and Services Union's promise to prioritise those with immediate travel needs.

The revelation came as hundreds of people again queued in the rain today at the Passport Office on Molesworth Street as industrial action at the office continued. Mum-of-three Shona Gillies, from Donegal, was overjoyed to discover her baby daughter Zoe is eligible for a British passport.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...to-industrial-action-14740068.html
 
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Fri May 28, 2010 8:17 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 15):
Which brings us back to square one, why bother with the passports now? AFAIK, Hungary already has some sort of ID cards for ethnic Hungarians living abroad which gives them preferential status in Hungary.

Tit for that. Slovakia regulates against their Hungarian minority, Hungary retaliates giving passports away.

It's all for internal consumption, it gives both the Slovak and Hungarian govts a few nationalist votes.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 13):
If you want it why not? The Irish offer it to anyone who has a Parent or Grandparent ( alive or dead ) who can claim they were born on the ''Island of Ireland''. Other countries also have similar rules.

Spain, for one. IIRC Germany, Switzerland, Greece, Italy, and many others do too. The case of Israel is perhaps the most extreme.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Slovaks Retaliate Over Hungarian Citizenship Law

Fri May 28, 2010 10:41 am

Quoting luckyone (Reply 17):
Are you sure about the Czech Republic? Martina Navratilova has both US and Czech citizenship as of 2008, as does former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.

Sure. People who emigrated during 1948-89 were usually automatically stripped of their citizenship by the Czechoslovak communist government and technically became stateless until they accepted new, in their case US citizenship. Their status as Czechoslovak citizens was reinstated after 1989 if they wanted to. Not 100% sure if this is the case of Ms. Albright but certainly the case of Ms. Navratilova.


Quoting luckyone (Reply 17):
Also, for those of us not entirely in the know what is the underlying tension between the Slovaks and Hungarians?

My gut feeling it's the Trianon Treaty of 1920.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trianon_Treaty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g8l-NbbOQI

[Edited 2010-05-28 03:42:36]

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