PSA53
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US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:49 pm

US Rep.(D-Lakewood,Ca) Linda Sanchez has taken the debate of AZ immigration SB1070 to new lows.A typical democrat, pulling out the "r" word, who now charges that the AZ law has been fueled by white supremacists.Unreal! Well,Ms.Sanchez,no one as yet called you Mexican Nationalist,but maybe they should.

Where's Al Sharpton?

Here's the link by LA Times/Yahoo.


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...sswoman-in-hot-water.html#comments

[Edited 2010-06-04 12:06:49]
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Klaus
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:56 pm

An obviously racist law sponsored by people with ties to the supremacist movement, now being accused of being racist? Oh, the horror! What is the world coming to!   
 
PacNWjet
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:07 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
An obviously racist law

You do realize (don't you?) that the Arizona law makes fewer demands regarding the provision of identification documents by visitors to the United States (legal, illegal, or otherwise) than does U.S. federal law. Or does that mean that U.S. federal law is even more racist than Arizona law and, if so, why all the ruckus about Arizona? Besides, Mexican law regarding illegal visitors to Mexico is stricter than any law (state or federal) in the United States, so is Mexican law more racist than U.S. law and, if so, why all the ruckus about the U.S.? Why isn't anybody upset about racist Mexican immigration law? Or are Americans the only people in the world capable of racism? The last time I was in Europe I had to demonstrate I was there legally. I guess Europeans are racists too.
  
 
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LAXintl
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:28 pm

Linda Sanchez is a wacko herself. She's had several high profile public disputes here in Southern CA, including one a few years back I believe waving Mexican flags at a rally.

She displays total apathy against illegal immigration and has voted far left on a host of immigrant related bills, from everything to against funding for both a physical and electronic border fence with Mexico, wanted to create a means to tip off Mexicans about the presence of the Minuteman a few years back, voted to expand rights for illegal alien children attend schools, expansion of medical services for illegal aliens, etc...

Maybe its her background (daughter of Mexican migrants) but her views seemingly are that there is no border between the countries.
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flymia
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:32 pm

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 2):
why all the ruckus about Arizona?


I do not know. The law which how is stands now just lets Police officers make sure people are here legally if they are stopped etc.. I would like my police officers enforcing the law!

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 2):
Mexican law regarding illegal visitors to Mexico is stricter than any law (state or federal) in the United States,


Exactly, but the Mexican President comes here and talks down the law in our capitol talk about ridiculous. And there is the VP and speaker of the house clapping with him. Of course Fox news is the only news agency which reports this, CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS they do not care that a leader of another country came into our capitol to talk bad about our country. When his country has much worse and more strict immigration laws.

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 2):
I guess Europeans are racists too.


The US immigration laws are some of the easiest in the world. And then the Federal Government does not even enforce them much and does not want any other government agencies to enforce them.
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BN747
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:52 am

But the question remains....is the source of the Ariz. Immigration Law, the craftsmanship of a White Supremacist organization? It appears to be true. If so, supporters must look at who they're doing their bidding for...and with whom they're standing shoulder-to-shoulder with.


BN747
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engineergreg
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:32 am

I find it totally disgusting that Arizona has taken so much criticism for a law that, for the most part, mirrors the federal law and is MUCH more lenient than the Mexican immigration laws. Take a moment to pause and actually think (yes, I said think) about why Arizona passed this law in the first place. To start with, it couldn't have anything to do with the huge problem Arizona has had with illegal immigrants....  
Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
An obviously racist law

Really? So stopping people from being here illegally is racist then? Why don't you try entering Mexico illegally and see what happens then?
 
eaa3
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:43 am

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 2):
You do realize (don't you?) that the Arizona law makes fewer demands regarding the provision of identification documents by visitors to the United States (legal, illegal, or otherwise) than does U.S. federal law. Or does that mean that U.S. federal law is even more racist than Arizona law and, if so, why all the ruckus about Arizona? Besides, Mexican law regarding illegal visitors to Mexico is stricter than any law (state or federal) in the United States, so is Mexican law more racist than U.S. law and, if so, why all the ruckus about the U.S.? Why isn't anybody upset about racist Mexican immigration law? Or are Americans the only people in the world capable of racism? The last time I was in Europe I had to demonstrate I was there legally. I guess Europeans are racists too.

Do you realize how the EU works. Whereas the U.S. border with Mexico is closed in the EU all of Eastern Europe is welcome to live, work and do anything they want all over Europe.
 
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:50 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
An obviously racist law

Does Germany expel illegal visitors? If so, how does it identify them?

The paradox here is, in order to identify and protect your own citizens, you need to identify who is not a citizen. One way is, identify (and inconvenience) everybody, citizens and non-citizens alike. That way it is equal. Presumably, that is what the Arizona law can do, if applied fairly.
 
PacNWjet
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:56 am

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 7):
Do you realize how the EU works. Whereas the U.S. border with Mexico is closed in the EU all of Eastern Europe is welcome to live, work and do anything they want all over Europe.

Uh, huh. So I guess people from North Africa, sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East, South Asia, the Indian Subcontinent, and Southeast Asia, are free to just waltz into Europe without any restrictions? Do you know how the EU works? Have you not read the thousands of books, newspaper and magazine articles, academic journal articles, and scholarly papers that have analyzed the tensions in Europe over migration to Europe from other parts of the world? Are you not aware of entire political parties in Europe that have been formed in response to immigration issues? Give me a break.
 
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:27 am

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 7):
Do you realize how the EU works. Whereas the U.S. border with Mexico is closed in the EU all of Eastern Europe is welcome to live, work and do anything they want all over Europe.

Maybe if you're a citizen of the EU, but if you're not, do you not have to prove that you're there, legally, by showing your passport when you arrive? I think the example meant if you were arriving from somewhere OUTSIDE the EU, not within.
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:43 am

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 7):
Do you realize how the EU works. Whereas the U.S. border with Mexico is closed in the EU all of Eastern Europe is welcome to live, work and do anything they want all over Europe.

Yeah the EU doesn't have an illegal immigration problem at all. Those guys in boats coming from Libya to southern Italy all have legal papers right? What about all the Paki's in England, or the Turks in Germany? All there legally huh?  
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:34 am

Quoting PSA53 (Thread starter):
pulling out the "r" word,

Let's drop the charade already. Racism is not a dirty word, nor is it taboo. This "'r' word" business that we've been seeing on this site lately is ridiculous. If the claim about a White Supremacist organization being behind this bill is correct, then racism certainly came into play in crafting this bill.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Linda Sanchez is a wacko herself. She's had several high profile public disputes here in Southern CA, including one a few years back I believe waving Mexican flags at a rally.

How does waving a Mexican flag make one a wacko?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 5):
But the question remains....is the source of the Ariz. Immigration Law, the craftsmanship of a White Supremacist organization? It appears to be true. If so, supporters must look at who they're doing their bidding for...and with whom they're standing shoulder-to-shoulder with.

        
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:15 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 5):
But the question remains....is the source of the Ariz. Immigration Law, the craftsmanship of a White Supremacist organization? It appears to be true.

Assume for a moment that it were true - does that automatically render the law as unjust? There's nothing in the law itself that promotes racism or even supports it. In fact, subsequent changes to the law expressly prohibit using race as a determining factor.

So, help me out here - how is this law racist?
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AR385
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:31 am

Quoting engineergreg (Reply 6):
Really? So stopping people from being here illegally is racist then? Why don't you try entering Mexico illegally and see what happens then?

Nothing will happen. illegals found out are taken to the Instituto Nacional de Migración authorities. They are then sent to one of their migratory centers. There, they are sorted out. The proper Consulate and Embassy will be contacted, a thorough health check will be performed, and they will be properly and nutritously fed. They are then sent home. These centers are no jails. There is no police there. And the illegals inside are not treated like criminals.

Is the above so horrible? What is it that you think will happen? Do you think illegals in Mexico are shot? skinned alive? tattooed? sent to jail? sterilized? Used to make ratings-hungry documentaries in Nat-Geo? Illuminate me please.

[Edited 2010-06-05 04:44:11]
 
lewis
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:13 pm

Quoting engineergreg (Reply 6):

Do you realize how the EU works. Whereas the U.S. border with Mexico is closed in the EU all of Eastern Europe is welcome to live, work and do anything they want all over Europe.

No, you still have to go through the appropriate channels. A person from a country outside the EU (ie. Ukraine & Moldova since you picked E.Europe) cannot do whatever they want in the EU. They need a visa to get into the EU countries first and then all appropriate paperwork to stay for longer and work etc.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
An obviously racist law sponsored by people with ties to the supremacist movement, now being accused of being racist?

I worked in Germany for several months, flying to Munich every week. Because my flight was from Greece (in EU and Schengen), I was always asked for a passport/ID as soon as I stepped out of the gate by police officers in civilian clothing. My colleagues coming in the same day from AMS, BRU and ZRH never saw something like that. So I guess it was racially motivated, right?
 
gatorfan
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:24 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
An obviously racist law sponsored by people with ties to the supremacist movement, now being accused of being racist? Oh, the horror! What is the world coming to!   

Have you read the law? Please tell us what specifically is racist about it.
 
YANQUI67
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:44 pm

Some Mexican immigrant laws. I verified these by looking at their constitution. Pretty harsh laws if you ask me. The US should mirror these laws. After all we are following the lead of our good friends to the south.

1. If you migrate to this county, you must speak the native language

2. You have to be a professional or an investor. No unskilled workers
allowed.

3. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no
special ballots for elections, all government business will be
conducted
in our language.

4. Foreigners will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they
are here.

5 Foreigners will NEVER be able to hold political office.

6. Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no
food
stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs.

7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount
equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.

8. If foreigners do come and want to buy land that will be okay, BUT
options will be restricted. You are not allowed waterfront property.
That is reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.

9. Foreigners may not protest; no demonstrations, no waving a foreign
flag, no political organizing, no badmouthing our president or his
policies, if you do you will be sent home.

10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be hunted down
and sent straight to jail.
 
eaa3
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:23 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 15):
No, you still have to go through the appropriate channels. A person from a country outside the EU (ie. Ukraine & Moldova since you picked E.Europe) cannot do whatever they want in the EU. They need a visa to get into the EU countries first and then all appropriate paperwork to stay for longer and work etc.

Yes if your from outside of the EU. My point is that within the last 10 years Western Europe opened the border to 10 Eastern European countries and it worked relatively well. The total population of the 10 Eastern European countries is larger proportionally to the population of Western Europe than Mexico is to the US.

I'm not saying that Europe has opened it's borders to the entire world. I'm just saying that opening it's borders to the poorer Eastern Europe worked well. I am an economics student and there are very few economic theories that say that immigration is a bad thing for the economy. So the reality is that United States benifits economically from these workers. They don't take the jobs of "Hard working Americans" because that assumes that the amount of jobs in the economy is a constant which it is not. With more workers an economy grows and more jobs are created. But there is a problem in that none of these workers pay taxes, this could however be fixed with legalization.
 
flymia
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:36 pm

Quoting yanqui67 (Reply 17):
9. Foreigners may not protest; no demonstrations, no waving a foreign
flag, no political organizing, no badmouthing our president or his
policies, if you do you will be sent home.

And we let the president of Mexico talk about our laws. Why doesnt President Obama go to Mexico City and talk about their laws.

Quoting yanqui67 (Reply 17):
6. Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no
food
stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs.

  

Quoting yanqui67 (Reply 17):
1. If you migrate to this county, you must speak the native language

   Those two are great. They should apply them here.
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:46 pm

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 18):
I'm not saying that Europe has opened it's borders to the entire world. I'm just saying that opening it's borders to the poorer Eastern Europe worked well.

Are we talking about "legal" or "illegal" immigration?

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 18):
So the reality is that United States benifits economically from these workers.

You would think so, but ask any of the states with large "illegal" immigrant populations whether or not their state is overburdened with crime, welfare, medical, etc. costs that end up being paid for by the taxpayers, because of course, non of these illegals pay taxes, nor would they want to.
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AGM100
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:04 pm

Quoting yanqui67 (Reply 17):
If you do come to this country illegally, you will be hunted down
and sent straight to jail.



         Roger that..... OR change the laws to allow anyone to come in , any time , anyway.

Its that simple ... either strip all of our immigration laws out and make it a turn style border ...or up hold the laws . Why is it so hard to understand? .... I don't get it.

Forget it ... its too late I believe .
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AGM100
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:20 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 13):
So, help me out here - how is this law racist?



EA ... You forget Jesus ..... Pelosi is now acting with the power of Jesus . The "Word" as she say's it .... immigrants have the right to come here and ..vote DEMOCRAT ...the party of the "word"..
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eaa3
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:46 pm

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 22):
Third, your Economics professor should have made clear the distinction between the effects of legal and illegal migrant workers on an economy.

Why would an economic model ever make a distinction between illegal and legal immigrants? Certainly illegal immigrants often don't pay taxes so there is an effect on government budget balances. But that is minimal and has minimal negative effect on economic growth and unemployment. All the more reason to make illegal immigrants legal and perhaps even open the border. Then you would at least be able to tax them. Ultimately though the CBO believes that the effect of illegal immigration on budgets is minimal.


Acording to NPR: "There are places in the United States where illegal immigration has big effects (both positive and negative). But economists generally believe that when averaged over the whole economy, the effect is a small net positive. Harvard's George Borjas says the average American's wealth is increased by less than 1 percent because of illegal immigration. "

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/87xx/doc8711/12-6-Immigration.pdf
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5312900

Immigration is good for economic growth and the distinction between legal and illegal is minimal.

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 22):
Second, your professor who taught you logic should have instructed you on how to make a proper analogy. The analogy of Mexican migrants to the United States is not migrants from member states of the EU in Europe, it is migrants from countries outside of the EU (just as migrants from Mexico come from outside the United States).

Professor of logic? Ok. Do you realise that the EU only opened its borders to Eastern Europe 6 years ago. Romania and Bulgaria only 3 years ago. My point is that the EU opened up it's borders. Legalized all their workers and it worked well.
 
PSA53
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:31 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 12):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Linda Sanchez is a wacko herself. She's had several high profile public disputes here in Southern CA, including one a few years back I believe waving Mexican flags at a rally.

How does waving a Mexican flag make one a wacko?

If at the time she waved a foreign flag was she was employed as an officer of the US,then yes,I would have a big problem with that.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 5):
But the question remains....is the source of the Ariz. Immigration Law, the craftsmanship of a White Supremacist organization? It appears to be true. If so, supporters must look at who they're doing their bidding for...and with whom they're standing shoulder-to-shoulder with.

1)What solid prove do have to even appear extreme white parties played a factor?As mention many times before,it is a failure of the Fed to enforce laws that were already in place written in very much the way SB1070 was..
2)I can only imagine if the roles were reversed and a Repub made such extreme harsh claim about a law in a "Blue" state of how long he/she would of lasted in office.And maybe that's the thing.AZ is a "RED" state ,so,blast away.

Ms.Sanchez needs to resign.

[Edited 2010-06-05 11:51:42]
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AirframeAS
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:46 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
Nothing will happen. illegals found out are taken to the Instituto Nacional de Migración authorities. They are then sent to one of their migratory centers. There, they are sorted out. The proper Consulate and Embassy will be contacted, a thorough health check will be performed, and they will be properly and nutritously fed. They are then sent home. These centers are no jails. There is no police there. And the illegals inside are not treated like criminals.

I have heard the exact opposite. I know you, AR385 are proud of your country but you don't need to sugar coat it. Why not just tell us how it really is like once caught. I assure you, illegals in Mexico are actually thrown in jail then deported.

See below...

Quoting yanqui67 (Reply 17):
1. If you migrate to this county, you must speak the native language

2. You have to be a professional or an investor. No unskilled workers
allowed.

3. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no
special ballots for elections, all government business will be
conducted
in our language.

4. Foreigners will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they
are here.

5 Foreigners will NEVER be able to hold political office.

6. Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no
food
stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs.

7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount
equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.

8. If foreigners do come and want to buy land that will be okay, BUT
options will be restricted. You are not allowed waterfront property.
That is reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.

9. Foreigners may not protest; no demonstrations, no waving a foreign
flag, no political organizing, no badmouthing our president or his
policies, if you do you will be sent home.

10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be hunted down
and sent straight to jail.

I heard the same thing coming from a lot of other people OUTSIDE of A.net. That is your laws, AR385, whether or not you like them. I remember on another thread, you discounted in disgust every single one of them.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
An obviously racist law

How is it racist?   
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AR385
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:13 pm

Here we go again.

Quoting yanqui67 (Reply 17):
Some Mexican immigrant laws. I verified these by looking at their constitution. Pretty harsh laws if you ask me. The US should mirror these laws. After all we are following the lead of our good friends to the south.
Quoting yanqui67 (Reply 17):
1. If you migrate to this county, you must speak the native language

This is false.

Quoting yanqui67 (Reply 17):
2. You have to be a professional or an investor. No unskilled workers
allowed.

This is false.

Quoting yanqui67 (Reply 17):
3. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no
special ballots for elections, all government business will be conducted in our language.

You need to define which is OUR language. There are over 40 native languages spoken in Mexico. And in many regions, all of the above you mentioned is done in the native language. French? There is a region in the South East where French is spoken, and schools are taught in that language.

Quoting yanqui67 (Reply 17):
4. Foreigners will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they
are here.

This is true. Please tell me if there is a place on Earth, that allows foreigners in a country to vote. Legal, or illegal. Does this happen in the US? in Puerto Rico?

Quoting yanqui67 (Reply 17):
5 Foreigners will NEVER be able to hold political office.

This is true. Again. Please tell me about a place on Earth, that lets its foreigners hold political office. Legal or illegal.

Quoting yanqui67 (Reply 17):
6. Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no
food
stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs.

This is false. Anyone in Mexico is entitled to health care. Foreign, local, legal, illegal, Vulcan, Romulan. I am surprised that you "verified" this in our Constitution, since the rest of the programs you come up with either do not exist, or are very, very limited in scope, to ANYONE.

Quoting yanqui67 (Reply 17):
7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount
equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.

This is crap. A foreigner can invest any amount he wishes. From 1 cent to billions of dollars. Is this in the Mexican Constitution? You did a fantastic job "verifying."

Quoting yanqui67 (Reply 17):
8. If foreigners do come and want to buy land that will be okay, BUT
options will be restricted. You are not allowed waterfront property. That is reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.

Not true. It used to be so in the past. A consequence of archaic fears of landing ships in ports owned by foreigners. Logical, in an ancient frame of mind. But that law changed 20 years ago. And the restrictions never applied to citizens not "naturally" born in Mexico. What do you mean by naturally , anyway? Since 20 years ago, legal mechanisms were passed and approved for foreigners to buy any land they want. Do tell, in the US and Puerto Rico are illeglas allowed to own property? Any type?

Quoting yanqui67 (Reply 17):
9. Foreigners may not protest; no demonstrations, no waving a foreign
flag, no political organizing, no badmouthing our president or his
policies, if you do you will be sent home.

This is true. I understand the implications on freedom of speech and civil liberties of of not letting foreigners do what you mention. But I strongly feel that a foreigner in another land is not right on critisizing the land he is in by choice. Much less if he is in there by force, such as the case of a refugee or an exile. Work for your citizenship, then you can bad mouth anything or anybody you want. I don´t understand why the US allows its foreigners to protest and such ans sometimes, so aggresively.

As for sending people home, there is Article 33 in our Constitution which provides for sending home any foreigner deemed unsuitable. It is very rarely applied, though and in most cases, only a thigh levels. Last time it was used we sent back to Rome some Italian priest which came here sent by the pope and said some crap about how a certain law being discussed in Congress was anti-catholic. Sending a priest home? We should send them all back to freaking Rome, if you ask me. We´ll be better off. And I agree with this. Why should a foreigner, in any country be allowed to stay unconditionally when he is obviously not fit to be there?

Quoting yanqui67 (Reply 17):
10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be hunted down
and sent straight to jail.

This is crap. Immigrating to Mexico illegaly is not a crime. It is a violation of our Immigration Law, but not a crime.

Why did you post this list, saying you "verified it" with the Mexican Constitution? A lot of things here are unverifiable simply because they don´t exist. Others because it is not in the Mexican Constitution where the info. to verify them exists. Many of the things in these list are also taken out of context. You lied. You posted a lie. What was your intent? To inflamme an already racist, hateful factually wrong debate? Way to go.

[Edited 2010-06-05 12:20:15]
 
AirframeAS
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:17 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 26):
Here we go again.

Why do you keep doing that when it is actually in your Constitution???   
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LAXintl
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:36 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 12):
How does waving a Mexican flag make one a wacko?

To wrap oneself around the flag of another sovereign nation while being a US elected official is a no-no.

Such acts draw into question her allegiance.
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:38 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 13):
Assume for a moment that it were true - does that automatically render the law as unjust? There's nothing in the law itself that promotes racism or even supports it. In fact, subsequent changes to the law expressly prohibit using race as a determining factor.

So, help me out here - how is this law racist?

Simple, because of it's origins. Where it came from. That being okay with you - for now - only fuels the original authors to now target something or someone else now that supporters like yourself has given them 'legitimacy'. Do you think that they snuck one in before they were found out..that they will stop there? This is dangerous precedent to allow to stand.

I'd have no problem targeting individuals here illegally, but by that I mean 'targeting 'ALL' persons here illegally, not just the brown ones which this is going after, it's not going after all the illegal sunbirds from Canada in Arizona nor the illegal Aussies/Brits/Italians/Kiwis or anyone of a lighter hue.

If a national law was passed to question all suspected illegal Aussies/Brits/Italians/Kiwis, etc....and then to find out it's author was Louis Farrakhan. Please tell me with a straight face you'd support it and it wasn't racist. Is what Robert Mugabe doing 'racist?'...yes it is. So is this.


This laws' intent is unequivocal at whom it has targeted - that's racist.

BN747

[Edited 2010-06-05 13:42:19]
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:54 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 29):
I'd have no problem targeting individuals here illegally, but by that I mean 'targeting 'ALL' persons here illegally, not just the brown ones which this is going after, it's not going after all the illegal sunbirds from Canada in Arizona nor the illegal Aussies/Brits/Italians/Kiwis or anyone of a lighter hue. It's intent is unequivocal at whom it's targeted - that's racist.

Well, just some truth speaking, there is not a huge illegal Aussies/Brits/Italians/Kiwis problem. Furthermore, if an illegal Aussies/Brits/Italians/Kiwis is found, then under this law, they are in just as much trouble as "the brown ones."

Just like in other threads, why aren't we devoting just as much time and resources to Christian extremist groups as we are to Islamists? Because the Islamist problem is WAY bigger than the Christian extremists groups. If there were big problems with illegal Aussies/Brits/Italians/Kiwis, yeah there would be laws to address them.

Priorities.
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:00 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 29):
If a national law was passed to question all suspected illegal Aussies/Brits/Italians/Kiwis, etc....and then to find out it's author was Louis Farrakhan. Please tell me with a straight face you'd support it and it wasn't racist. Is what Robert Mugabe doing 'racist?'...yes it is. So is this.

A law that specifically mentions certain nationalities would be illegal as its clearly discriminatory.

The AZ law, does not say anything about nationality or color whatsoever. Its a blanket law.

Sure the majority of people this effects would be Hispanics, as obviously they are the preponderance of illegals in Arizona.
The same manner how a 1890 law in San Francisco would capture Chinese or a 1910 law in NY might snare lots of Italians.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 29):
I'd have no problem targeting individuals here illegally, but by that I mean 'targeting 'ALL' persons here illegally, not just the brown ones which this is going after, it's not going after all the illegal sunbirds from Canada in Arizona nor the illegal Aussies/Brits/Italians/Kiwis or anyone of a lighter hue.

Those folks are subject to the law as well, however in a sea of illegal Hispanics one has to wonder how many illegal Kiwi's there are in AZ, and how often (if ever) they would be in contact with the police to prompt suspicion.


As you most likely know here in California many jurisdictions check immigrant status of all jail detainees, and it does not matter of you are Mexican or British, but obviously Hispanic here also are the bulk of inmates that get deported after serving their sentences. Does this make our system bad as we tend to snare many many more Mexican's or Salvadoreans in our jails then Frenchman?

At the end of the day, with the illegals immigration problem in Arizona primarily result of traffic from the South of the border being a fact of life, obviously the results of any enforcement action will by far mirror the drivers of the problem.
So if AZ has 1million illegals, of which 990,000 are estimated to be Hispanic, then 99% of those detained and subsequently removed should be Hispanic.
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:14 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 5):
But the question remains....is the source of the Ariz. Immigration Law, the craftsmanship of a White Supremacist organization? It appears to be true

According to what? Certainly nothing in the story supports that nor has the esteemed Rep. provided any further details to back up her charge.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
Nothing will happen

Please.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 26):
. Is this in the Mexican Constitution?

Most of our immigration laws are not found in our Constitution. The laws that are on the books are Constitutional.
So this is a sidestep of the issue.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 26):
This is crap. Immigrating to Mexico illegaly is not a crime.
Anything by definition done illegally is a crime no matter what country you are in.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 26):
It is a violation of our Immigration Law, but not a crime.

If you are violating the law, you are committing a crime no matter where you are.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 29):
Simple, because of it's origins. Where it came from

Please provide some detail because again, that does nothing to back up the charge that the law was written by white supremacists.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 29):
, but by that I mean 'targeting 'ALL' persons here illegally, not just the brown ones which this is going after, it's not going after all the illegal sunbirds from Canada in Arizona nor the illegal Aussies/Brits/Italians/Kiwis or anyone of a lighter hue.

The law does not specify skin color as a reason to legally question someone, after they have been stopped for a lawful reason (such as speeding). If you can point out where it does please do. If not, then you yourself are guilty of continuing the misrepresentation of this law.
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:17 pm

Let's address these one by one:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 26):
Quoting yanqui67 (Reply 17):
2. You have to be a professional or an investor. No unskilled workers
allowed.

This is false.

Articulo 42 of Ley General de Poblacion appears to contradict this. In fact Paragraph/Section III of that article specifically says that the immigrant must have certain skills and provides a list of what professional skills are deemed acceptable. Article 55 of that law then says that the legal immigrant can work in any legal job approved by the authorities.

Interestingly enough Article 64 of the law permits Mexican gov't officials to ascertain precisely what AZ law permits - the legal status of the immigrant. Article 72 REQUIRES judges to report illegal immigrants who appear before them (regardless of conviction) to the immigration authorities. So why is it OK for Mexican Judges to do something but not for AZ police officers to do the same thing? A bit hypocritical is it not?

Article 73 specifically REQUIRES local and municipal authorities to assist in the enforcement of Mexican immigration laws.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 26):

This is crap. Immigrating to Mexico illegaly is not a crime. It is a violation of our Immigration Law, but not a crime.

Are you saying that the illegality is not punishible by detention and incarceration? If it is when how do you distinguish it from a crime? My understanding that illegal entry into Mexico can result in two years in prison. Is this not the case?

Quoting AR385 (Reply 26):
This is false.
Quoting AR385 (Reply 26):
This is true. Please tell me if there is a place on Earth, that allows foreigners in a country to vote. Legal, or illegal. Does this happen in the US? in Puerto Rico?

Mexican activist are seeking precisely this right in California school board elections.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=158773

Quoting AR385 (Reply 26):

Not true. It used to be so in the past. A consequence of archaic fears of landing ships in ports owned by foreigners. Logical, in an ancient frame of mind. But that law changed 20 years ago. And the restrictions never applied to citizens not "naturally" born in Mexico. What do you mean by naturally , anyway? Since 20 years ago, legal mechanisms were passed and approved for foreigners to buy any land they want. Do tell, in the US and Puerto Rico are illeglas allowed to own property? Any type?

Article 66 allows immigrants the right to make certain investments in Mexico so long as they do not violate Article 27 of the Mexican Constitution. Article 27 specifically states: "Under no circumstances may foreigners acquire direct ownership of lands or waters within a zone of one hundred kilometers along the frontiers and of fifty kilometers along the shores of the country."
 
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:22 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 31):
A law that specifically mentions certain nationalities would be illegal as its clearly discriminatory.

The AZ law, does not say anything about nationality or color whatsoever. Its a blanket law.
Quoting dxing (Reply 32):
The law does not specify skin color as a reason to legally question someon

Let's stop play dumb, we all know EXACTLY who this law is targeting .. LAXIntl makes that case very clear.

The only problem is, supporters of this law (as LAXIntl cites) .. are that it's needs are based on 'criminal activity'. Which is also false, crime in the state has been as low as in is now since the 1980s.

The truth that no one..and I mean no one wants to admit is this... the fear that the state could become just too brown. We all know that to be the biggest concern above all. It is the concern here in Calif as well as Texas. If Africa were on the border, it would be fear of too many blacks. Canada borders some 13 or 14 more or less states..do you see any of those states (populations) griping about all the illegal Canucks coming across working taking business, stealing jobs?

No, we don't. Why, because their skin color is not perceived as a threat. Race is all over the map on this bill (LAXintl made clear) but he wants to label it more of a crime prevention measure than what it truly is. The crime prevention angle is merely a political angle of attack..nothing more. Because as of right this very minute, there aren't enough police in all states combined to even begin to slow down the petty crime activity occurring in all 50 states. White collar crime is far far greater threat to the nation and to this society than illegal latino-based crime could ever be.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 31):
Those folks are subject to the law as well, however in a sea of illegal Hispanics one has to wonder how many illegal Kiwi's there are in AZ, and how often (if ever) they would be in contact with the police to prompt suspicion.

The comparison is made for two reasons:

1) Those who argue, "They're illegal..they shouldn't be here at all!!!" - that crowd.

2) Because if this racist bill is the law of one state..it can be in another, and another. - -The end result? A brand new Racial Divide that will take the nation not closer to dissolving issues or race..but make issues of race in America so enormous, it will end very ugly. If whites are to become the minority in 20-30 years, the trajectory of this bill .. places it directly onto a path of 'racial payback'. And there will be no stopping it. It will be white persons nightmare when the tables are turned on them - they are the minority and suddenly targets for everything under the sun.

I don't want that. Ever.

But attitudes behind bills like this only snowballs. it creates greater divides and it will surely place us all onto that path.

Quoting dxing (Reply 32):
According to what? Certainly nothing in the story supports that nor has the esteemed Rep. provided any further details to back up he
http://www.sgvtribune.com/news/ci_15230584?source=rss

Linda Sanchez steps into fight between Southern Poverty Law Center and Federation for American Immigration Reform

Linda Sanchez says white supremacist groups behind Arizona immigration law


When Rep. Linda Sànchez, D-Lakewood, made claims this week that white supremacists were behind Arizona's controversial immigration law, she may not have known she was stepping into a 2 1/2-year war between two groups battling over immigration reform.

The groups are Federation for American Immigration Reform that helped write Arizona's controversial law and the Southern Poverty Law Center, a pro-civil rights organization that tracks hate groups.

The Southern Poverty Law Center in December 2007 labeled FAIR a hate group. Soon after Dan Stein, FAIR president, said their labeling was "replete with accusations that have no factual basis."


"Its founder (Dr. John Tanton) has made racist statements about immigrants through the years," said Beirich. "(He) also said this country should be run by whites and if white culture isn't dominating American society, the country will fall apart.

Now with that kind of mindset behind the authoring of this bill, it can not possibly be any clearer what their intent is. And if they're successful here, they will not stop there they'll only be energized to turn it up.

So after all, the bill came from a racist source. The bill in nature then is indeed racist. None of you can argue that (although I'm sure you'll attempt to do exactly what FAIR has done) disguise it as some attempt to reduction crime and all these other silly feeble excuses just to make it appear as a 'legitimate concern'.

When people 'like this' are the initiators and creators of any type of law..it only spells one thing...trouble.


BN747

[Edited 2010-06-05 15:54:27]
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:52 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
So after all, the bill came from a racist source.

No ,it did not.It came from a reform acting immigration group.And that does not necessary make it racial or hate group.Immigration is a economic issue.A tax payer issue.And we can say no at anytime without any petty racial labeling.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
Let's stop play dumb, we all know EXACTLY who this law is targeting ..

That's you're speculation.That's not written prove.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
When Rep. Linda Sànchez, D-Lakewood, made claims this week that white supremacists were behind Arizona's controversial immigration law, she may not have known she was stepping into a 2 1/2-year war between two groups battling over immigration reform.

So,this still makes her suspect.There no excuse,regardless for using the term WHITE supremacists.WTF?.She made no mention of no group at the time according to the article at that time.

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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:53 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
So after all, the bill came from a racist source. The bill in nature then is indeed racist. None of you can argue that

No, it doesn't work like that. If a racist says 2 + 2 = 4, then she might be totally right. And, she doesn't make math racist by saying so. We need to attack racially oriented organizations and laws, irrespective of who wrote them. What matters is the fairness of the process, not the identity of the people involved. When people break the rules, and try to use impassioned ethno-centrism to craft an excuse for their conduct, it's equally meaningless IMO.
 
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:55 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
Now with that kind of mindset behind the authoring of this bill, it can not possibly be any clearer what their intent is. And if they're successful here, they will not stop there they'll only be energized to turn it up.

Let's just assume for the moment that the driving force behind the Arizona law is a racist group. If that is the case, then you just have to laugh at what a miserably poor job the group did translating its racist agenda into law since the Arizona law makes fewer demands on visitors to provide proper identification and documentation than does U.S. federal law. It sort of reminds me of a bit from the sketch comedy program "Mr. Show" in which an inept lone racist with aims of carving up the United States into racial homelands enlists the support of a multiculturally diverse group of misfits who sit around in the racist's basement quibbling over what parts of the United States should be included in newly created countries such as "New Israel" and "Homo-Arabia." What kind of completely laughable racist group would propose a law that is weaker than existing U.S. federal law?
 
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:55 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 5):
But the question remains....is the source of the Ariz. Immigration Law, the craftsmanship of a White Supremacist organization? It appears to be true.

Does it appear to be true, or is it something that this Rep is pouting off about? It is one thing if the former, but still requiring significant evidence to back it up. If not, well, it seems like it would be just more hot air. I would say that there needs to be more than just the word of this individual for that theory to become credible.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 13):

Assume for a moment that it were true - does that automatically render the law as unjust?

Just or not, yeah. I know it sounds silly, but this day & age, such appearances mean a lot, given the relative sensitivity of people. If indeed it is sponsored by such elements, then I would say it needs to be taken down. That said, no reason on earth something more obviously sponsored by the legal citizen population of AZ couldn't be voted back in, even if virtually identical. I know that's a cumbersome and expensive solution to this. But if it can be credible said that it is racially motivated, then that would need to be solved.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):

Nothing will happen. illegals found out are taken to the Instituto Nacional de Migración authorities. They are then sent to one of their migratory centers. There, they are sorted out. The proper Consulate and Embassy will be contacted, a thorough health check will be performed, and they will be properly and nutritously fed. They are then sent home. These centers are no jails. There is no police there. And the illegals inside are not treated like criminals.

Is the above so horrible?

If it is as you say, no it isn't that bad. And I do not think anyone here really thinks Mexico doesn't have the right to enforce such things. I think it's just being pointed out for comparison/perspective purposes.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 26):
And in many regions, all of the above you mentioned is done in the native language. French? There is a region in the South East where French is spoken, and schools are taught in that language.

Oddly enough, I have a good friend who fits just that description. But I think he actually grew up in Zacatecas past the age of two, or something like that.
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:05 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
Let's stop play dumb, we all know EXACTLY who this law is targeting ..

Sure it is who do you think is coming here in droves? Maybe that has something to do with it.  
Quoting AR385 (Reply 26):
This is crap. Immigrating to Mexico illegaly is not a crime. It is a violation of our Immigration Law, but not a crime.

So Mexican authorities will do nothing you say? I have a friend who was in Nogales he was on a street corner a Mexican police officer was also there he had an apple he went to my friend and said "do you have anything I can cut this with"? So he had a penknife and gave it to the policeman the policeman said " knifes are illegal in Mexico" So he arrested him. He told me the cops all passed a bottle of tequila around and after he was able to get some money he paid them off essentially the original cop who arrested him gave him his knife back? WTF? It's all about the money corrupt SOB's. Not saying it can't happen here but it is rampant in mexico..I will never spend a dime there.
 
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:30 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
Race is all over the map on this bill (LAXintl made clear) but he wants to label it more of a crime prevention measure than what it truly is. The crime prevention angle is merely a political angle of attack..nothing more.

So you say we should ignore a tide of illegal activity because the perpetrators majoritarily happen to be non-white?

I certainly don't care, and I doubt most people in US care what color a person is that commits a crime. Illegal activity is illegal activity, white, black, brown, pink or any other shade you wish to have.

I cant see how anyone cannot accept a sovereign nations right to control its borders and enforce basic immigration laws.
If you are here illegally, you should be subject to the full weight of the law and its consequences, and good for Arizona to highlight this national tragedy that has been allowed to go on for far to long.
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:58 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
Now with that kind of mindset behind the authoring of this bill, it can not possibly be any clearer what their intent is. And if they're successful here, they will not stop there they'll only be energized to turn it up.

That is your opinion, not supported by the facts as they have so far been presented.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
The Southern Poverty Law Center in December 2007 labeled FAIR a hate group. Soon after Dan Stein, FAIR president, said their labeling was "replete with accusations that have no factual basis."

So you have a dispute between the SPLC, which only exists if it can convince its donors that hate groups are everywhere and all prevailing and this FAIR orginization. I've interviewed people from the SPLC a number of times when I was in radio. Rarely did they have concrete information to back up their claims. More often than not they "suppose" based on their bias, that a group is racist. I know nothing of this FAIR orginization but the law is anything but racist. Illegal immigrant is not a race.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
So after all, the bill came from a racist source.

Not that you have shown. From your quote of the story:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
The groups are Federation for American Immigration Reform that helped write Arizona's controversial law

what does "helped write" mean? Did they offer language? Support of some sort? Information? That is a completely ambiguous statement that says essentially nothing.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
None of you can argue that (although I'm sure you'll attempt to do exactly what FAIR has done) disguise it as some attempt to reduction crime and all these other silly feeble excuses just to make it appear as a 'legitimate concern'.

No need to argue. You have not shown that they did anything. Since the law states catagorically that an officer may only ask about a persons immigration status after legitimately stopping them for some other cause i.e. speeding, then the lefts rant of "show me your papers" is an empty scare tactic much as your description above.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
When people 'like this' are the initiators and creators of any type of law..it only spells one thing...trouble.

Again, you have completely failed to prove they were the "initiators" of the law. When you can do that you will have an argument to make. Right now you are doing nothing but throwing up scare tactics and misinformation.

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 35):
She made no mention of no group at the time according to the article at that time.

Absolutely correct. She said nothing to back up her claim. And the left has the audacity to say the right uses fear tactics.
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:10 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
Canada borders some 13 or 14 more or less states..do you see any of those states (populations) griping about all the illegal Canucks coming across working taking business, stealing jobs?

No, we don't. Why, because their skin color is not perceived as a threat.

First, let us remind ourselves that the standard of living in Canada is on par with that of the US. Mexico's standard of living, generally speaking, is below that of the US. Therefore, we have a much larger amount of immigration (both legal and illegal) from Mexico than we do from Canada.

If by some weird twist of events, Canada had a standard of living far below that of the US, then we'd see illegal immigration across the northern boarder like we do now across the southern border.

They come here seeking a better life. They are welcome to do so so long as they do it legally. Assuming that they come here because they are brown (which many on the left seem to be implying) is what is truly racist.
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:32 am

Quoting dxing (Reply 41):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
Now with that kind of mindset behind the authoring of this bill, it can not possibly be any clearer what their intent is. And if they're successful here, they will not stop there they'll only be energized to turn it up.

That is your opinion, not supported by the facts as they have so far been presented.

What on earth does that answer mean...feel free to offer up another opinion as what else a mindset like that you're defending.... this could possibly be be about...? There's my opinion..how say you?

Quoting dxing (Reply 41):
That is your opinion, not supported by the facts as they have so far been presented.

Is this my opinion too..or is this not Courtesy of your favorite information source -- Fox News

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...inspired-arizonas-immigration-law/

Sanchez told the newspaper after her speech that she based her accusation on online stories, particularly a blog written by Andrea Nill, an immigration researcher for ThinkProgress, an offshoot of the liberal Center for American Progress Action Fund.

Nill wrote that the Immigration Law Reform Institute, the legal arm of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), helped write the law. The Southern Poverty Law Center has labeled FAIR a hate group, a designation that the organization disputes.

Quoting dxing (Reply 41):
You have not shown that they did anything.

Need more facts? Go get 'em.. you now have a starting point to investigate FAIR til your heart's content. Although I believe you'll try to find more excuses to dismiss their complicity.

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 39):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
Let's stop play dumb, we all know EXACTLY who this law is targeting ..

Sure it is who do you think is coming here in droves? Maybe that has something to do with it.

Sorry 'those people' frighten or annoy you.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 40):
So you say we should ignore a tide of illegal activity because the perpetrators majoritarily happen to be non-white?

You read my statements, I said address the 'illegal activity' evenly...not target one race. That makes it racist.

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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:21 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 43):
You read my statements, I said address the 'illegal activity' evenly...not target one race. That makes it racist.

If you can find the wording in the Arizona Law that specifically targets one race, would you please post them on here. I cannot find them.
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:41 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 43):
What on earth does that answer mean...feel free to offer up another opinion as what else a mindset like that you're defending.... this could possibly be be about...? There's my opinion..how say you?

What mindset? The law closely mirrors the federal one. However the federal law is even more strict than the AZ state law. Are you claiming the federal law is racist as well?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 43):
Sanchez told the newspaper after her speech that she based her accusation on online stories, particularly a blog written by Andrea Nill, an immigration researcher for ThinkProgress, an offshoot of the liberal Center for American Progress Action Fund.

Nill wrote that the Immigration Law Reform Institute, the legal arm of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), helped write the law. The Southern Poverty Law Center has labeled FAIR a hate group, a designation that the organization disputes.

Again, what does "helped" mean? What sort of support did they offer? There is still nothing in this story, as a matter of fact even more, that says that the Rep was shooting from the hip with absolutely no real facts to back up her claim. I can read a lot of things on blogs, does that make them true because some one with an obvious cause (thinkprogress) says so? Let's see the proof to back up the claim as well as what support FAIR gave to the writing of the bill. Or that they were the "originators" of the bill as you earlier claimed.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 43):
Need more facts? Go get 'em.. you now have a starting point to investigate FAIR til your heart's content. Although I believe you'll try to find more excuses to dismiss their complicity.

I don't need to go "find" anything. You need to present some facts to back up your claims or retract your misrepresentations of the AZ law. So far all you have presented is inuendo and unsupported charges.
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:01 am

Quoting dxing (Reply 45):
I don't need to go "find" anything. You need to present some facts to back up your claims or retract your misrepresentations of the AZ law.

That's 'your' argument.

Mine in this thread has been consistant, that 'that law' is of racist origins and racist roots as Congresswoman Sanchez has charged. Misdirect all you want, it is the exactly as she has said.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 44):
If you can find the wording in the Arizona Law that specifically targets one race, would you please post them on here. I cannot find them.

Unfamiliar with the concept of 'unspoken rules', clear unmistakable inferences, 'thinly-veiled intentions' or what most astute individuals called 'the obvious'... if so I can only suggest is that on your next visit to Arizona, ask a few local latinos their views regarding this law.

To write as such as you are suggesting would be straight out of Jim Crow 1950s...is that what you're looking for?

BN747
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:09 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 4):
The law which how is stands now just lets Police officers make sure people are here legally if they are stopped

And in addition to having stopped someone for something else to begin with, the officer has to have reasonable suspicion of being an illegal alien. (i.e, they have to be able to state a reason why they're checking someone's documents. Skin color is not among the valid reasons)

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
Canada borders some 13 or 14 more or less states..do you see any of those states (populations) griping about all the illegal Canucks coming across working taking business, stealing jobs?

I'll debate with you when you start making sense. There are not 13 million illegal Canadians in the US.
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AirframeAS
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:44 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):

I don't think you are understanding what LAXintl was saying in reply 31. It has nothing to with race. He just stated it is a blanket law. It applies to EVERYBODY. What part of that do you not understand?

The law is not racial.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 40):
Illegal activity is illegal activity, white, black, brown, pink or any other shade you wish to have.

  

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 47):
There are not 13 million illegal Canadians in the US.

Oh, so, so true!   
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
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RE: US Rep Linda Sanchez Gets Ugly With AZ Law

Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:55 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
..do you see any of those states (populations) griping about all the illegal Canucks coming across working taking business, stealing jobs?

Is it because they aren't?  



Without actually copying all the statements you have made, I'll say this....you have yet to give any proof that this bill is either racist or was written by a supposed racist group. All you've done is repeat what Rep. Sanchez has said (with no proof, but plenty of supposition) or you've come up with your own speculation, again, with no proof, except to repeat several articles that are obviously against this particular law, which are, in themselves, rampant with speculation and not much else.


I'm guessing that you didn't do any more reading of the bill than did the President, U.S. Attorney General, Sec'y. of Homeland Security or any number of any other people that should have really read the bill before making any statements about it, including Rep. Sanchez, Mexican President Calderon or the U.S. media.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen

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