T8KE0FF
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Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:01 pm

Personally, I dislike the queen. What is the point? Yea, sure she brings in heaps of tourists to our nation but still... I just don't get it. What does she actually do that no-one is capable of doing??

I also reckon that the countries in the commonwealth, e.g. Aussie, should ditch old Vickie too. Although thats a whole other story...

So, my question is, do we really need another queen/king/or whatever after our one at the mo' dies?


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MasterBean
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:06 pm

There are many pointless jobs in the world, but hey the Queen is cool so there we go. Charles may be a bit of a knob but still, it'll be good.
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:08 pm

Without trying to interfere with UK interior affairs, I do not see GB without royal family, they are a symbol and a good one at that.
Also The Republic of Great Britain does not shime good. If something is not broken don't repair it.
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ajd1992
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:08 pm

Not a fan of her but I don't see the Royal Family ever disappearing. It's just never going to happen, no matter what controversial things they seem to get up to sometimes.
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:12 pm

Quoting T8KE0FF (Thread starter):
So, my question is, do we really need another queen/king/or whatever after our one at the mo' dies?

You should really study the British order of succession to see who'll be the next King (hint hint)  

Personally I think the Queen has lots of unique value as the chief statesman and ceremonial head of the country.

Following your logic, why should there be any tradition at all? Why do the Changing of the Guard, when the "Guard" just plays bagpipes? Why maintain the Tower of London when there are plenty of modern jails around?
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AirframeAS
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:32 pm

How does the Royal family in England support themselves? I mean, are they living on the taxpayer's pound?? If so, what a waste of money!
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T8KE0FF
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:46 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 5):
what a waste of money!

Agreed!! I don't pay text myself (being 14 haha) but I think its only about 5p a year, but in my view anything is too much for 'her'.
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comorin
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:55 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 5):
How does the Royal family in England support themselves? I mean, are they living on the taxpayer's pound?? If so, what a waste of money!

Um, they used to own England. So even if they don't get a handout, they own enough to be comfortable for a very long time. They get a royal pittance for what they bring in so that issue is a non-starter.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:56 pm

Looking from outside, I see the Queen and Royal family as an extremely valuable branding and draw for the nation.

After all the you have mass amount of tourism and dollars centered around the royal family. I've certainly trounced around the UK and spent plenty of sums with my family visiting various castles and homes related to the Royals.

Also don't forget, the Queen is still part of the legal governmental systems for other nations also, for example head of state in Canada thru her representative the Governor General, so simply getting rid of her has effects beyond UK.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:05 pm

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 4):
Personally I think the Queen has lots of unique value as the chief statesman and ceremonial head of the country.

Oh definitely. She is not the World's longest reigning Monarch. This title goes to His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej, King of Thailand .

In the hierarchical order, the Emperor of Japan (Tenno) comes ahead of her an then HM King Bhumibol.

She is still an immense symbol worldwide, it may have to do with her age and all the historical time periods she has gone through in her life, World War II and more. How many US Presidents did she see during her reign. I had the number I posted it somewhere. It certainly makes a good number.

I still much prefer her namesake RMS Queen Elzabeth 2, Queen of the Seas. I treasure this ship the same as I treasure Concorde - while I can't say I treasure the Queen.   
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David_itl
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:23 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 5):
If so, what a waste of money!
Quoting T8KE0FF (Reply 6):
but in my view anything is too much for 'her'.

For that they have to meet and greet anyone and everyone who is invited to the Palace (including those idiots that pervade society that think they know it all whilst teenagers) and attend "official" functions in all manner of sporting, industrial and cultural fields. Would you do that under the obtrusive glare of the media? I wouldn't.

What twerps who think that they pay too much for her are indifferent to is the tax revenue paid by the Royal Family and alll revenue garnered from the Crown Estates. According to Wiki, in the 2003-04 fiscal year, the amount surrendered was £176.9 million, where the Head of State Expenditure was £36 million For comparison, the 2008-09 financial year saw iincome of £226.5 million with expenditure at £41.5 million. So we in 5 years, we have received an approx increase of £50 million whilst shelling out £5m more. That level of expenditure is 69p per person...effectively every 5.3 days you are paying her the princeley sum of 1p. Yes, it's FAR too much money that they are receivng. Shall we go to being a Republic then and deprive the Treasury that amount of money at a time when we need every penny that we can raise?
 
signol
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:58 pm

Quoting T8KE0FF (Thread starter):
she brings in heaps of tourists to our nation but still.

Is it her (or the "monarchy" that brings in tourists? France is a republic and welcomes more tourists than the UK.

Quoting MasterBean (Reply 1):
Charles may be a bit of a knob

That is the point of a monarchy - you don't get to choose!

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 2):
The Republic of Great Britain

Given that Great Britain is just the big island and the outlying islands, not including Northern Ireland, we'll have to rethink the name... The United Republic?

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 4):
why should there be any tradition at all? Why do the Changing of the Guard, when the "Guard" just plays bagpipes? Why maintain the Tower of London when there are plenty of modern jails around?

France manages to have just as much pomp and ceremony with the Presidential Guard, Changing of the Guard at the Elysée Palace...

Quoting comorin (Reply 7):
So even if they don't get a handout

They do, it is called the Civil List. Figures for 2006-2007 state that the Queen received £7.9 million. However, the Royal Estates do have to pay tax, and paid more tax than they received.
http://www.royal.gov.uk/TheRoyalHous...Sourcesoffunding/TheCivilList.aspx

Quoting david_itl (Reply 10):

The tax office would still get the tax even if under a republic they didn't pay out to the civil list.

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David_itl
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:04 pm

Quoting signol (Reply 11):
The tax office would still get the tax even if under a republic they didn't pay out to the civil list.

I have a feeling that this would be one of things up for discussion!
 
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:14 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 2):
Without trying to interfere with UK interior affairs, I do not see GB without royal family, they are a symbol and a good one at that.
Also The Republic of Great Britain does not shime good. If something is not broken don't repair it.

Totally agree , also alot of the work they do goes un reported, all the charity events and good causes they support. The most recent elections saw the current process works and led to a smooth transition, protocal was followed and its always worked.

They also bring in millions of ££'s in tourism. They have adapted to changes and the new younger Royals like William and Harry will be a great asset in future.
 
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:23 pm

Quoting T8KE0FF (Reply 6):
Agreed!! I don't pay text myself (being 14 haha) but I think its only about 5p a year, but in my view anything is too much for 'her'.

PAYG or PAYE?

Quoting OA260 (Reply 13):
Totally agree , also alot of the work they do goes un reported, all the charity events and good causes they support.

Charles, for all his faults, is a very vocal critique of the built environment. I both support and disapprove of this; sometimes he gets it right on the head, whilst in other cases he does tend to be overly sentimental about progress. The Royal's charity work is also invaluable and surprisingly low key most of the time. Again to highlight Charles in his work for The Prince's Trust, he has changed the lives of many people... and given them the shock of their lives by turning up unexpected to see how they are getting on.


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AirframeAS
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:58 am

Quoting comorin (Reply 7):
Um, they used to own England.

Key phrase here being used to own. They don't "own" England anymore. So, what's the point??
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NWOrientDC10
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:55 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 14):
Again to highlight Charles in his work for The Prince's Trust
http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/pers...les/residences/highgrove/homefarm/

Prince Charles has a business venture in the form organic farming with the proceeds going to charity.

Last year, Duchy Originals had almost $80 million in sales; profits, about $2.4 million, went to the prince's charities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/25/tr...e.1.5434896.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1

Also, aren't male members of the Royal Family required to serve in the military?

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Ken777
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:53 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 5):
How does the Royal family in England support themselves?

They have a nice income from Royal Properties.

Quoting signol (Reply 11):

The tax office would still get the tax even if under a republic they didn't pay out to the civil list.

Would it? IIRC there was an agreement some years back that brought the Royal Income into a tax paying position. I have no doubts that the Solicitors for the Royal Family would have protected them in that agreement for "unseen future events".

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 15):
They don't "own" England anymore. So, what's the point??

They still own a fair bit of land.

Overall I believe that the Royal Family is a net benefit for the UK. Behind the ceremony is a lot of legal issues that are avoided, and they level of tourism can't be underestimated. While "other countries" may have more tourists, I would put the UK at the top of the "European Wish List" for Yanks looking to fly over the Atlantic. I've spent more time (and money) there than any other place - well, except for Australia.

As for the Queen, I'm impressed with her. She did her WW II bit as a truck driver and has performed exceptionally well ever since.

The most impressive part though is how adaptable she has been over the years as the world has changed so much. Political changes, technology changes (especially in communications) and all of the family issues. The Queen has adjusted exceptionally well, Charles is well prepared to take over and William & Harry have both grown into impressive young men. Harry, to me, is like Andrew who was simply "H" when he served as a chopper pilot in the Falklands War. Harry sort of "slipped" into Afghanistan and served until his service there was disclosed by the media.

Overall I'm impressed with the Royal Family in my lifetime and believe they add something to the UK that can't be copied or replaced.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:26 am

I think the sense of continunity of Royality is something many people want in their countries so long as they are more of a figurehead, not a true part of govenment power structures. While HRH Queen Elizabeth II is the Head of State for the UK and some Commonwealth Countries, she really only has a ceremonial invovement in the UK government, no real involvement in actual policy decisions with rare exceptions. That is something most UK citizens can live with and prefer.
 
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:00 am

Quoting david_itl (Reply 10):
What twerps who think that they pay too much for her are indifferent to is the tax revenue paid by the Royal Family and alll revenue garnered from the Crown Estates. According to Wiki, in the 2003-04 fiscal year, the amount surrendered was £176.9 million, where the Head of State Expenditure was £36 million For comparison, the 2008-09 financial year saw iincome of £226.5 million with expenditure at £41.5 million. So we in 5 years, we have received an approx increase of £50 million whilst shelling out £5m more. That level of expenditure is 69p per person...effectively every 5.3 days you are paying her the princeley sum of 1p. Yes, it's FAR too much money that they are receivng. Shall we go to being a Republic then and deprive the Treasury that amount of money at a time when we need every penny that we can raise?

  
There was another study also that showed how little it costs to have them as head of state compared to other countries with Presidents etc.
One other factor that was mentioned in another post is that they attract millions of pounds of foreign currency from tourism.
Quite simply the British Royal Family is the worlds most famous monarchy and tourists like to see things related to them.

Me personally I don't care for or against the monarchy, but as mentioned purely economically they are far better than any other alternative for Britain.
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AirframeAS
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:46 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
They still own a fair bit of land.

Do they pay their fair share of property taxes??   

The thing is, the Royal Family may have once ruled England for many, many centuries. But this is 2010. Who is ruling England now?


.


.


The people.
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peterpuck
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:28 am

I'm sure her nearly 60 years of involvement in politics, diplomacy, charity work, business, etc are a welcome resource for the Prime Minister in his/her weekly meetings! I don't know what percentage of Canadians agrre with me, but I would prefer to keep the status quo with the Queen as our head of state.
 
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:48 am

Quoting T8KE0FF (Thread starter):
Personally, I dislike the queen. What is the point? Yea, sure she brings in heaps of tourists to our nation but still... I just don't get it. What does she actually do that no-one is capable of doing??

Because it's her bloody country!

     
 
skidmarks
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:39 am

While everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, I don't think a 14yr old has any idea what he is talking about.

However, if the UK education system paid more attention to the History of this country and how it has evolved and grown through the years, he wouldn't have to ask stupid questions.

Having seen the mess "elected" presidents, dictators and the like make of the countries they rule, then give me the system we have any day.

Still, it's good that he asks questions as this is the only way to learn. It's simply sad he cannot find the answers at school.

Given the state this country is in, with the standard of politicians we have seen over the past 20 years or so, then to have a stable head of state such as the Queen is, I think, essential.

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Kiwirob
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:41 am

Quoting T8KE0FF (Thread starter):
should ditch old Vickie too

Who is old Vickie?
 
skidmarks
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:50 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 24):
Quoting T8KE0FF (Thread starter):
should ditch old Vickie too

Who is old Vickie?

I rest my case  

Andy   
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:07 am

The Queen does not have her own aircraft that I know of. No Queen's Flight.

You will have a difficult time believing how much Nicolas Sarkozy and wife are spending on themselves. The daily spending for flowers in the Elysée is 600+ Euros. This is only the flowers not talking about the rest. The latest of which are his 3 new airplanes.

He recently bought an Airbus A330 dubbed "Sarko Force One" or "Air Sarko" to be delivered after a full refit. The complete overhaul is said cost a fortune.

http://www.rmc.fr/editorial/60485/a-la-decouverte-du-nouvel-air-sarko/

There are also two brand new Dassault Falcon 7X coming in the fleet with the 330 purchase one of the 7X to be used by Carla Bruni.

The thought of flying in a Airbus 319 used by his predecessor Jacques Chirac as official flight was not good enough for Sarkozy so he wanted to have something bigger and totally refurbished to his own liking for his own personal use. He wants to have it fitted as a miniature Elysées Palace.

The 11 year-old A330 belonging to a US leasing corp. that flew for Air Caraibes was fit to carry 324 passengers. Sabena Technics was contracted for doing a complete aircraft overhaul. Just as if Air France could not do the work.

This is money out of tax payers pockets -- 280 Million Euros -- are paid by the French Ministry of Defense. The Governement and Ministries official spendings are made public.

The cost of the Italian coffee machine required by wife Carla Bruni for the 7X has created a mini-scandal by itself.

Prince Albert of Monaco looks cheap with his two Gulfstream jets, one of which was his father's aircraft. The two jets are not for the exclusive use of the Prince. They are also used by the government and also by Princess Caroline and family.

All the Princes personal expanses are from his own money.

I will take the Queen and the Prince of Monaco any time over the French President. Sarkozy is nothing new. I remember President Mitterrand chartering not one but two Concordes for his presidential travels.

[Edited 2010-06-06 02:14:38]
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OA260
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:22 am

Quoting skidmarks (Reply 23):
While everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, I don't think a 14yr old has any idea what he is talking about.

Quite true but in his defense at that age I went through the get rid of the Monarchy phase! Its part of student/school life sometimes. Then when you mature you realise the value of things and institutions , obviously sometimes people dont and grow up to know the value of nothing but theres always hope  
 
GDB
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:23 am

It's not about the money (a totally insignificant amount of government spending), it's about continuity, keeping the head of state out of politics thus creating stability.
The police, armed forces, sweat their oath of allegiance to the crown, not whatever political party is in power at the time.

Look around Europe, the UK is not the only constutional monarchy, The Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Sweden - are these authoritarian states stuck in a past?
Not a bit of it, they are models of stability and liberal, progressive democracy.
Further south, look how Juan-Carlos of Spain fatally undermined an attempt in 1981 of a coup attempting to return fascist rule to Spain.

This stability ingrained in the British society meant that fascism and communism never got near to arising even in the worst times of the last century.

The great strength of the current Queen is her absolute devotion to what she really sees as her sacred duty to be an anchor and rallying figure for the nation, in giving her long experience in the form of advice to Prime Ministers, who all have known she will never betray any confidences - where else do you see that? She will NOT use twitter to report on these weekly meetings.

I've my doubts about Charles, we know far too much of what he thinks, often showing no great insight.
However, the history of the monarchy has shown time and again that new kings and queens who had been the subject of doubt often became the better ones.
The Queen's father being an example, his absolute refusal to leave London at the height of the Blitz was an important morale booster at this countries darkest time.
(He was also the last monarch to overrule a PM, by telling Churchill that his idea to be on the first British landing craft on D-Day was not a good idea - if anyone had a right to be there, it was the king, he was after all the Commander In Chief albeit ceremonially not operationally).

I agree with the above that it might be that the history and evolution of the constitution might need better teaching.
 
bookishaviator
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:25 am

Quoting T8KE0FF (Thread starter):
I also reckon that the countries in the commonwealth, e.g. Aussie, should ditch old Vickie too. Although thats a whole other story...

Whilst I personally would love to see Australia become a republic, it's worth noting that the Queen and the royal family are, for all intents and purposes, largely irrelevant to modern day Australia. The Queen may officially be our head of state, but she rarely factors into any meaningful discussion about politics and current affairs in this country. Australia certainly has more pressing matters to deal with.
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ltbewr
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:56 pm

Perhaps one critical area where the powers of the Royality should be changed is as to their position of 'defender of the faith', that is the Church of England. The separation of church and state should be complete, the faith led by a non-royal. It would allow British royals to marry a Catholic or even someone without a faith belief.
 
avek00
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:31 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 26):
He recently bought an Airbus A330 dubbed "Sarko Force One" or "Air Sarko" to be delivered after a full refit. The complete overhaul is said cost a fortune.

...That's only until he wins the next round of elections and goes for the Presidential A380 to upstage Obama.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 30):
Perhaps one critical area where the powers of the Royality should be changed is as to their position of 'defender of the faith', that is the Church of England. The separation of church and state should be complete, the faith led by a non-royal. It would allow British royals to marry a Catholic or even someone without a faith belief.

As an Episcopalian, and Anglophile, I strongly oppose this. The Mother Country's ruler should continue to forever be the defender of the faith (and spiritual head) of the Church of England, as the counterbalance to the Papist rule at the Vatican. I also have no desire to see a Roman Catholic as a sovereign of the Mother Country. Wars have been extensively fought over this, let's not have to return to them.
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Kiwirob
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:55 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 28):
the UK is not the only constutional monarchy, The Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Sweden - are these authoritarian states stuck in a past?

You forgot Belgium, or was it intentional?

Quoting bookishaviator (Reply 29):
The Queen may officially be our head of state, but she rarely factors into any meaningful discussion about politics and current affairs in this country.

Precisely why having the Queen as head of state makes sense, as soon as you get a President the role of head of state becomes political, is it really worth the hassle dumping the monarchy?
 
Pyrex
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:08 pm

While it is up to the British people to make that decision, I do not believe in the concept of a parliamentary monarchy. Simply put, the notion of democracy is incompatible with having a special set of people with a special set of constitutionally-granted privileges just because of who happened to give birth to them. If you want to keep your monarchy then fine, just don't go about pretending you are a democracy when you are not.

Quoting signol (Reply 11):
Is it her (or the "monarchy" that brings in tourists? France is a republic and welcomes more tourists than the UK.

A concept a few people here seem to struggle with... they seem to think that putting the royals back in their place would mean tearing down the castles and palaces and paving over Balmoral estate to build an ASDA.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 15):
Key phrase here being used to own. They don't "own" England anymore. So, what's the point??

Well, they do still own vast tracts of property that their predecessors stole from their subjects. Just because they did not technically nationalize anything does not mean they do not benefit from nationalization.

Quoting skidmarks (Reply 23):
However, if the UK education system paid more attention to the History of this country and how it has evolved and grown through the years, he wouldn't have to ask stupid questions.

Or, to put it in other terms, "the teachers in this country are failing to do a good job of brainwashing our kids and the result is kids thinking by themselves. Clearly we can't have that - maybe we should have them swear an oath of allegiance to Lizzie just as we make parliamentarians do even if they believe she should be thrown in the Thames

Quoting avek00 (Reply 31):
as the counterbalance to the Papist rule at the Vatican

Yes, Queen Elizabeth is the perfect counterbalance to Benedict XVI. And can you just imagine the horror of Charles marrying a catholic, after all the catholics his predecessors had to behead to be able to get rid of their wives?  
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Ken777
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:42 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 20):
The people.

Or the politicians?
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:42 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 33):
If you want to keep your monarchy then fine, just don't go about pretending you are a democracy when you are not.


Seems some people concepts of democracy need a revisit. Free elections, Parliament with power to change ruler (PM), speaker corner, free press among others, do not see how you can improve on that.
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LTU932
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:00 pm

Quoting T8KE0FF (Thread starter):
I also reckon that the countries in the commonwealth, e.g. Aussie, should ditch old Vickie too. Although thats a whole other story...

Old Vickie? For a 13 year old, you really know nothing about your country. Victoria has been dead for over a century, Elizabeth the Second is your Queen.

Quoting T8KE0FF (Thread starter):
So, my question is, do we really need another queen/king/or whatever after our one at the mo' dies?

Why not? At most, what you can do is ditch certain things from the monarchy in favour of more modern things, like instead of a coronation, hold an inauguration for the new King/Queen, like Spain did when Juan Carlos got to power, and also like e.g. in the Netherlands and even in the Vatican (where Paul VI. gave away his Tiara after the coronation, and the Popes since have had a more modern inauguration instead of the old hour long coronation, and have never worn any form of Papal Crown again). Some people even speculate that should William become King, that he would choose an inauguration over the traditional coronation.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 35):
Seems some people concepts of democracy need a revisit. Free elections, Parliament with power to change ruler (PM), speaker corner, free press among others, do not see how you can improve on that.

How about a written Constitution for starters? I mean, has there ever been a written constitution in the UK since the Magna Carta?
 
Pyrex
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:45 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 35):
Seems some people concepts of democracy need a revisit.

No they don't. Democracy means equal rights for everyone, it does not mean "if your great great great grandfather was the meanest SOB around and managed to conive and slaughter his way into power then you are allowed to be the head of state, otherwise tough shit"
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Lufthansa411
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:13 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 28):
It's not about the money (a totally insignificant amount of government spending), it's about continuity, keeping the head of state out of politics thus creating stability.
The police, armed forces, sweat their oath of allegiance to the crown, not whatever political party is in power at the time.

One of the things in the British political system that I have the most respect for. As seemingly crazy as it is to swear allegiance to the Queen, it creates stability, especially in the bureaucracy where pretty much everyone does not leave when a new government comes to power, instead they just get a new boss. It's one of the reasons I think it is not necessary for GB to change to the US system where there is a 3 month transition of power. Most of the people that help make the decisions stay in power. It's not like the unpredictable US system where everyone leaves with the outgoing government and thousands upon thousands of new people have to be confirmed and learn "the procedure" for the first time. It is really only the MP's and the Cabinet that changes.

Hell, how long has it been and everyone in the Obama administration has still not been confirmed yet.

Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 16):
Prince Charles has a business venture in the form organic farming with the proceeds going to charity.

Well, organic in this case does not mean healthier or better for you. I remember watching "The F Word" that cooking show with Gordon Ramsey and JSP. JSP did an exposé on just how healthy Charles' food was. Most of it apparently has more sodium than a pizza from ASDA and more sugar than Maltesers, but people trusted it more than most generic food because it had a royal connection.
Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood.
 
GST
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:27 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
Looking from outside, I see the Queen and Royal family as an extremely valuable branding and draw for the nation.

Agreed.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):

Also don't forget, the Queen is still part of the legal governmental systems for other nations also, for example head of state in Canada thru her representative the Governor General, so simply getting rid of her has effects beyond UK.

And indeed they are an integral, and good, part of our legal system. Removing them would needlessly politicise the role of head of state, and you would need someone to fill the gap. The Prime Minister is too busy to realistically take on all of the duties that the monarch currently performs (and yes, it is in excess of a 9-5 working day that she performs). How about a president? but where would be the value in our current system of having an elected president to take over a role that is essentially detached from policy? How about appointments by the prime minister? Well, I think that would end up less popular as an unelected monarchy due to the fact that you would then have a massive bias at the very top, at least the queen has the moral high ground, keeping petty politics out of her business.

Quoting zkpilot (Reply 19):

There was another study also that showed how little it costs to have them as head of state compared to other countries with Presidents etc.

They put more money back into the economy and the inland revenue than they take out, they can persue a host of good causes, and best of all is that they are at least respected, if not loved, all over the world. The family has rightly gained a reputation for integrity from all of the work that they do. They have come a long way in the few hundred years since the tyrants people seem to be afraid of.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 26):
The Queen does not have her own aircraft that I know of. No Queen's Flight.

I think there is an RAF Avro 146 that is reserved for their use, but it is used for logistics and other national business also.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 33):
Simply put, the notion of democracy is incompatible with having a special set of people with a special set of constitutionally-granted privileges just because of who happened to give birth to them. If you want to keep your monarchy then fine, just don't go about pretending you are a democracy when you are not.
Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 35):
Seems some people concepts of democracy need a revisit. Free elections, Parliament with power to change ruler (PM), speaker corner, free press among others, do not see how you can improve on that.

By the similar logic the United States is not a democracy. You have tons of island overseas territories about the place, with a significant population on them. They don't get to vote, but on the flip side they don't pay taxes, and are quite happy with the trade off. similar here, the Queen doesn't get to vote, does pay tax, does a hard job with a smile on her face, is cost effective, has no privacy from the media, and constantly has the debate about "does she actually do anything?" about her. I'd say it is the royal family that is the loser in the relationship when you balance it out.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 36):
Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 35):
How about a written Constitution for starters? I mean, has there ever been a written constitution in the UK since the Magna Carta?

What tangible benefit is that? It is very difficult to get any important changes to a written constitution with any haste as someone will make a fuss about it. We have a system that works extremely well, and the archaic elements of it are disappearing slowly (such as not referring to MPs in the House of Commons by their names, but as the Honorable Member for [insert constituency here]).
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:48 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 36):
Old Vickie? For a 13 year old, you really know nothing about your country. Victoria has been dead for over a century,

Actually, there is a Queen Victoria still living and she is not that old.
She is a Cunard Queen, of royal class, sailing the Seven Seas.   
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777236ER
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:57 pm

Clearly nothing will change whilst the Queen is alive, but how many 21st century Brits would accept Charles as king?

Our money shouldn't go to keep a bunch of toffs in palaces; we live in a secular democracy, there is no need for a monarchy.

Her very Lowness with a head in a sling. I'm truly sorry - but it sounds like a wonderful thing
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AirframeAS
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:11 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 34):
Or the politicians?

Those people are not a part of the Royal Family. The politicians are THE people.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 41):
but how many 21st century Brits would accept Charles as king?

My uneducated guess is probably not much. Not after the crap he has been spewing over the majority of his life.
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Rj111
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:29 pm

HRH is a fine ambassador for the UK (and others) more so than any PM has been or will be. I believe Charles can be too.

84 years old now she still performs events, addresses our nation regularly and makes international visits. She truly loves her country and its people and shows concern about the way it is being run.

So much has changed in her lifetime, and during that time i believe she has helped maintain the country's values, and with her annual speeches, provided the UK with a sense of perspective - something that the MPs arguing pettily in Downing Street do not do. This is especially important to some of the older generation.

All her life has been spent in the public eye and if you think it's been a cakewalk, you are mistaken.

You will remember what the Royal Family means to this country on the day of her funeral (long may she live).
 
777236ER
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:43 pm

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 43):
HRH is a fine ambassador for the UK (and others) more so than any PM has been or will be. I believe Charles can be too

Do you seriously believe that? He's worse than his dad! He

- wants to ban McDonald's
- has written to countless government departments trying to influence them
- bombarded Lord Irvine with letters
- has caused private companies to lose millions thanks to his 'views' on architecture
- speaks nonsense about GM crops, with no scientific qualifications to his name
- owns a company which peddles quackery

amongst countless other absurd and dangerous things. What's worse, he will be in a position of absolute power, he will be able to actually do the crazy things he goes on about. He will have power over the nation, he's not elected, he doesn't represent anyone. The real expenses scandal happens in the palaces that we pay for, which host the royal families. Forget duck ponds, what about the polo matches, champagne, horses, lavish meals, clothes and cars that WE pay for?
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David_itl
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:05 pm

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 44):
The real expenses scandal happens in the palaces that we pay for, which host the royal families. Forget duck ponds, what about the polo matches, champagne, horses, lavish meals, clothes and cars that WE pay for?

And of course, none of those things would happen with a President. Time to get real!
 
Rj111
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:05 pm

he won't have a patch on Liz but if he falls into line i think he can be ok and will change some people's opinions of him.

Perhaps i'm just an optimist however.  
 
photopilot
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:22 pm

Views from Canada......

You Brits are welcome to keep Charles and your future Queen Camilla, Lizzy and the rest of the royal Clan. Despite the fact that Canada is still a Constitutional Monarchy with her nibs the Queen as our titular head of Gov't (through the Governor General) I'm all for Canada becoming a Republic. The life of the idle rich supported by the taxpayer has no place in modern society.

God save the Country...... not the Queen!!!
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:24 pm

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 44):
- wants to ban McDonald's

I don't see a problem with banning McDonalds, or at least whacking a bloody big tax on fast food.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 44):
What's worse, he will be in a position of absolute power, he will be able to actually do the crazy things he goes on about. He will have power over the nation, he's not elected, he doesn't represent anyone.

What an absolute load of misinformed crap, HRH does not have absolute power, neither will Chuck, the British Royal Family haven't had absolute power for hundreds of years.

I would support jumping over Chuck for Willie, I would not be surprised if Charles either passes over the Crown to William or has a crack at being king for a few years then abdicates. Whichever way you look t it the Queen has a good many years ahead of her, Charles will be an old man when he takes over so probably won't last that long.

Willie with sexy Queen Kate will most likely have a very long reign.

 
777236ER
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RE: Should The United Kingdom Ditch The Royal Family?

Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:24 pm

Quoting david_itl (Reply 45):
And of course, none of those things would happen with a President. Time to get real!

A president would have some sort of accountability. That's the point, with power comes accountability in a democracy.
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