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OA260
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Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:46 pm

Some things we already knew and some things we didnt. The design is much nicer than the old iPhone IMHO.


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Apple CEO Steve Jobs unveiled the new iPhone Monday at the company's annual Worldwide Developers Conference in San Francisco.

The new device, the iPhone 4, has about 100 new features that aren't available in the current model, the iPhone 3GS. Some of the biggest changes include a higher-resolution screen, a bigger battery, a front facing camera, an HD photo and video camera, a gyroscope for improved rotation sensitivity and a thinner, more industrial look.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/06/07/technology/new_apple_iphone/



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Newark777
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:49 pm

Actually, Gizmodo unveiled the design awhile ago.  
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
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OA260
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:56 pm

Quoting newark777 (Reply 1):
Actually, Gizmodo unveiled the design awhile ago.  

Which was mentioned  http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/...)&utm_content=Google+International
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:59 pm

Yep.. Gizmodo really ruined it for many people. It's like opening a christmas present before christmas.
 
Ken777
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:01 pm

I followed the Keynote at http://www.macrumorslive.com/ (reading from bottom to top)

I'm more than a little impressed and believe that Apple is giong to do well by this design.

On the OS side, new name for iPhone OS - iOS4, covering iPhone, touch and (probably) iPad.

Solid engineering work and some very nice design work - no surprise there.

Using A4 processor from iPad, front and back cameras, etc.

And updates of iOS4 for most existing iPhones/touches will be FREE on July 21.
 
D L X
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:08 pm

I want to see the list of these 100 new features. I have an iPhone 3GS, and I haven't heard anything just yet that makes me want to dump it for the new iPhone 4.

paging Kraus.... paging Kraus...  

Kraus, why do I want the new iPhone 4?
 
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OA260
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:16 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 5):
Kraus, why do I want the new iPhone 4?

LOL....The screen seems alot better and the Apps look crisp. Im glad I waited and didnt jump for the 3GS like my collegues did in the last months. Ive been telling all my mates looking for an iPhone to wait.

---------------

Shipping in five countries: US, France, Germany, United Kingdom and Japan on June 24.

July they’re shipping to a bunch of other countries. August and September – 65 more countries

Price: $200 for 16GB; $300 for 32GB

“I’m thrilled to also announce that AT&T is going to make an incredibly generous upgrade offer. If your contract expires anytime during 2010, you are immediately eligible for a new iPhone 4 at the same $200, $300 prices.” You can get up to six months early eligibility for an iPhone 4.



http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/...e-centric-wwdc-2010/#ixzz0qCINWE00

[Edited 2010-06-07 12:30:23]
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:38 pm

This video is pretty good to get an overview of the new iPhone 4:

http://www.apple.com/iphone/design/#design-video
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:52 pm

Just in time - my AT&T contract expires in 2 weeks, and I should be able to get a low-price upgrade from my iPhone 3G.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:08 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 5):
paging Kraus.... paging Kraus...

You know, you have a really sloppy pronunciation...!   

As with the previous models, anybody considering an iPhone did well to wait for the new model.

For me with my less-than-a-year-old iPhone 3GS it is unsurprisingly not enough of a bump to really feel the need for an upgrade, but that was expected.

For me the screen resolution was never really a limitation (although the new one sure looks nice!) and I personally could hardly care less for mobile video telephony (compare my posts in the iPad threads). 32GB of Flash has always been tight for me on the 3GS and it would remain equally tight on the 4 (the Flash manufacturers apparently haven't been keeping pace with Apple's product schedule ).

But since my contract is going for another year anyway, I'm in no rush – I had anticipated to maybe upgrade to the 2011 model and that remains the perspective for me.

That said, not everybody is in my shoes. And for someone looking for a replacement of a 3G or at their first iPhone at all, it's a very good step forwards.

Given the (as I remember) unchanged prices, the 3GS in Place of the 3G at the lower end is a nice upgrade. And the 4 does indeed give a really substantial feature bump as well.

The new, thinner case from hardened glass and stainless steel – no plastic remains on the outside. Very cool! (We'll have to see how well the frame antenna will work in practice.)

Fortunately Apple has again passed on the OLED fad; A super-high-resolution, high-contrast IPS display is definitely a much better choice for power draw, durability and last but not least daylight operation (provided it's as good at that as the current one).

I'm aware that quite a few people love video chatting (and for users of sign language I'm sure it's a large advantage), so that's a relevant addition for them as well. Question is when the mobile providers will allow it over their networks as well (the announcement was it being WiFi-only as of yet).

HD 720p video and the iMovie App seem to be quite impressive. Also nice. Bigger lens and bigger, higher-resolution image sensor in a still thinner casing are quite an achievement. Cool! I just hope the LED flash can easily be disabled manually – in some cases it will be an advantage, in others it could be a problem.

n-level WiFi is now on board officially as well – nice. And again improved battery endurance. The gyroscope is probably just via using a newer revision of the same accelerometer chip, but it will certainly be used by games and possibly by navigation Apps.

Just the included headphones seem to be the same old crap. They should really stop adding that kind of reputation-damaging garbage.

iPhone OS -> iOS at long last! This was getting cumbersome with now three classes of device using it.

iOS4 is coming to my iPhone 3GS soon as well, so I'll get a serious upgrade anyway – that's as it should be. We'll be talking about a hardware upgrade in another year – I have not the slightest problem waiting for that.

Edit: No Mac-related announcements at this time – Mac Pro, MacBook Air and Apple TV will apparently get their imminent upgrades via web site updates only.

[Edited 2010-06-07 14:09:38]
 
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OA260
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:49 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 9):
I'm aware that quite a few people love video chatting (and for users of sign language I'm sure it's a large advantage), so that's a relevant addition for them as well. Question is when the mobile providers will allow it over their networks as well (the announcement was it being WiFi-only as of yet).

I presume that this will use the same 3G network as is currently used by many European companies such as Vodafone/O2/3 for existing Video calling etc.. so is this really an issue?

Video calling is not a new concept. Is this new to the USA?
 
LAXintl
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:04 pm

Each to his own.
Apple fans can go ga-ga over yes another niche platform, that still lacks rather large features.

iPhone 4 Looks Great But Won't Stop Android
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...p-android-2010-6.DTL#ixzz0qCtPcDXn

Good job with iPhone 4, but the Sprint HTC EVO 4G is staying
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/cell-phone...-sprint-htc-evo-4g-is-staying/3977

Not something that interest or works for me.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:05 pm

Quoting oa260 (Reply 10):
I presume that this will use the same 3G network as is currently used by many European companies such as Vodafone/O2/3 for existing Video calling etc.. so is this really an issue?

No, it will apparently only work via WiFi at this time (locked out when only a mobile connection is available, apparently for network load reasons).

Quoting oa260 (Reply 10):
Video calling is not a new concept. Is this new to the USA?

Where are mobile video calls actually in widespread use? I've never ever seen anyone using one in real life. (Nor am I particularly likely to do that myself.)

One of the interesting issues about Apple's announcement is that they are apparently using open standards and they're subjecting their implementation for general standardization, so widespread non-proprietary interoperability should be possible.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:16 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Each to his own.

Sure.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Apple fans can go ga-ga over yes another niche platform,

You mean the one that totally disrupted the entire market when it came out in 2007, with a large number of remarkably similar knockoffs springing up in its wake, all of them aping the original and breathlessly trying to keep up?

That "niche platform"?
 
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
that still lacks rather large features.

I've looked through the texts. Besides a few marginal issues and several ones which the iPhone 4 with iOS4 is making redundant, which "rather large" ones would that be?

I've not seen any that would stir my interest.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Not something that interest or works for me.

Should there be a problem?
 
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OA260
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:20 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
Where are mobile video calls actually in widespread use? I've never ever seen anyone using one in real life. (Nor am I particularly likely to do that myself.)

I agree it was a novelty at first my first video call was some years back with 3 UK . I bought two video phones for £99 in 2003 the NEC313.



Was amazing at the time . I bought one for my Mum and one for me and we used them for birthdays/christmas etc.. Then I got one for family in Athens on Vodafone Greece 3G and it was great to link the family etc.. Not a daily use but certainly love it for the reasons above. Also here in Ireland a video call is the same as a normal call ( Free for VF-VF in Ireland ).
 
Ken777
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:40 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
That "niche platform"?

Yep. The one that has paid out over a Billion Dollars to developers for their app sales.  
Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
I've not seen any that would stir my interest.

Flash.         
 
LAXintl
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:43 pm

I've seen one person after another be disappointed with the iPhone after the initial buzz wares off.
I've also experienced entire companies that mistakenly were suckered by AT&T to opt for the iPhone, to only ditch them months later and go back to more traditional devices like Blackberry.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
You mean the one that totally disrupted the entire market when it came out in 2007, with a large number of remarkably similar knockoffs springing up in its wake, all of them aping the original and breathlessly trying to keep up?

That "niche platform"?

Yes I call it a niche platform.

Like much of Apple, they come up with a device and try to brain wash the world to what they feel they "must have" and everyone needs to run out and get one.

I agree the market branding of Apple is fantastic, they really manage to build a devoted group of believers, however I don't believe they truly make product that the masses want or more importantly truly need.

Basically to me Apple products are more hype then substance, especially when the price points are compared.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
which "rather large" ones would that be?

One big one still would be the ability to truly multi-task.
For example I find myself very often editing files, looking up things on the web, and working on an email at the same time, or even be a on a telcon simultaneously.
Also what about that earlier fubar of no cut-paste. I mean what where they thinking?


Anyhow, I see the iPhone as an entertainment platform, and not still as productivity or business phone which what my circle of friends and acquaintances look for. Movie or music player are a low priority compared to email, documents and other business activities.


As I said earlier, each to his own, but I am not being taken in by the Apple hype.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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Tugger
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:50 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 15):
Yep. The one that has paid out over a Billion Dollars to developers for their app sales.

And how many billions of dollars has the Microsoft based PC industry created for the independent companies that support that software/PC universe? I still don't get why anyone thinks that makes a product "great". By that criteria, MS is vastly "greater" than Apple but its not, its just another company producing a product and trying to sell it.

People try to feel better by showing how big they are, how many people use them, how much of the market they have, but for YEARS the Apple fans how pointedly noted that size and market share does not a great company make. I will respectfully say that using that same argument now is somewhat disingenuous.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Ken777
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:56 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
Like much of Apple, they come up with a device and try to brain wash the world to what they feel they "must have" and everyone needs to run out and get one.

Or maybe Apples a company where people design products that THEY will lust after - and the rest of us get to tag along with them. Now that's a great way to look at developing products.  
 
wingman
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:15 pm

So here I am Apple Lovers and Apple Haters, a true independent and undecided voter. What should I do...stay with Verizon and go with the Droid Incredible or jump ship to the iPhone4? Consider the following:

1. I'm a loyal Verizon customer and rarely, if ever, take a personal phone overseas (so the CDMA thing doesn't bother me). A work cell always but while on personal vacations abroad I'd rather no speak to anyone back home unless there's an emergency (send me an email which I check daily). Toss Up.

2. I'm a loyal Apple customer and run my household on their products. My wife has the original iPhone and will upgrade to the 4 when it comes out. So here I'm figuring why not have two carriers for complete coverage when we travel around the country. Score one for the Incredible.

3. I'm a telephone technology caveman and have been using the same flip top Samsung for 5 years now. It's never failed me yet but it doesn't really do the texting thing. Personally I think texting is for sex crazed teenagers and I'm now officially "Old School" for just calling people back when they text me. I know this is becoming more and more annoying to my friends I'm just an old fart who still likes to talk to people.

So I just want a phone that I can text with and that does have some of these cool features like surfing the web and built in GPS for the car. Watching movies and multitasking on such a small screen seems kind of silly so it's really just about the basics: coverage, surfing speed, cost, plans etc. I'm leaning Incredible but let me know what you guys think. Thanks.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:27 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 15):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
I've not seen any that would stir my interest.

Flash.

Oh, we've got both kinds – memory and camera flash...! 
 
racko
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:30 pm

I really like the design. Glad they ditched the cheap chrome look. If they had used this occasion to ditch their Saudi-Arabian app store policies I'd probably buy one.

Edit: Upon checking T-Mobile's iPhone contracts I retract my statement: Holy shit that's expensive.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 7):
This video is pretty good to get an overview of the new iPhone 4:

http://www.apple.com/iphone/design/#...video

Someone should tell them that their whole HTML5-is-awesome-Flash-is-evil-we're-so-open yadda-yadda is sort of undermined by using another, far-less popular proprietary plug-in for web video.

[Edited 2010-06-07 16:42:17]
 
Stealthz
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 pm

I asked this in the "Delusional" thread but it more correctly belongs here-

As a photographer I have some understanding of optics and a little understanding of how sensors in digital cameras work, can someone tell me what a backlit sensor is, how it works and how it aids the photographic process?

A little more detail than-- "Magical", "Revolutionary" or "Steve said so" would be nice although unexpected!

Cheers
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
racko
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:51 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 9):
32GB of Flash has always been tight for me on the 3GS and it would remain equally tight on the 4 (the Flash manufacturers apparently haven't been keeping pace with Apple's product schedule ).

Someone should invent something very small, let's say 11 mm × 15 mm × 0,7 mm, that can save 32GB of data while being exchangeable. Then you could buy more than one and carry 64 or even 128GB with you all the time. If only...
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:08 am

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 3):
Gizmodo really ruined it for many people. It's like opening a christmas present before christmas.

Even without the Gizmodo scoop, the iPhone 4 unveiling wouldn't have been much more exciting.

****

At least now the iPhone doesn't have the "oooh, look, it be all shiny and junk. You gots to have it, yo!" vibe to it anymore. Looks like a big-boy phone now.  
I lift things up and put them down.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:13 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):

Where are mobile video calls actually in widespread use? I've never ever seen anyone using one in real life. (Nor am I particularly likely to do that myself.)

I don't think that videophones in general have been very popular because:
1) You need to stay in the camera frame
2) It uses a lot of bandwidth
3) It's rarely that useful outside of phone sex and a few other isolated uses
4) I get the sense that most people LIKE the fact that the caller can't see you. Gives you privacy to be on the phone while walking around the house naked/sitting on the crapper/cooking dinner.

As Jetson-esque an appeal as videophones have, I doubt it will become the standard.
-Doc Lightning-

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MD-90
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:26 am

The new iPhone sounds delicious, but I wonder what the battery life is like using videoconferencing and shooting video? And I've never heard it called a "retina display" but Apple's doubled the pixel density of the iPhone (see a demonstration here) and it looks great.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 9):
That said, not everybody is in my shoes. And for someone looking for a replacement of a 3G or at their first iPhone at all, it's a very good step forwards.

No kidding. I'm still using my Motorola V3X Razr and I'm finally ready to start paying for a data plan.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 9):
Just the included headphones seem to be the same old crap. They should really stop adding that kind of reputation-damaging garbage.

I agree so much--Apple's making them to fit a price point. For $75 you can get a nice pair of Klipsch S4 earbuds and they're great.

Quoting wingman (Reply 19):
So here I am Apple Lovers and Apple Haters, a true independent and undecided voter. What should I do...stay with Verizon and go with the Droid Incredible or jump ship to the iPhone4? Consider the following:

Sounds like you'd love the iPhone 4 but the question is how good is AT&T's network in your area? My mom tried switching from Verizon to AT&T and got so annoyed at an AT&T billing error that she went back to Verizon.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 22):
As a photographer I have some understanding of optics and a little understanding of how sensors in digital cameras work, can someone tell me what a backlit sensor is, how it works and how it aids the photographic process?
Sony has been doing a lot of research into backlit CMOS sensors:

Quote:
Sony has retained the advantages of CMOS image sensors such as low power consumption and high-speed operation, while radically realigning their fundamental pixel structure from front-illumination to back-illumination to successfully develop a prototype, back-illuminated CMOS image sensor (pixel size: 1.75µm square pixels, five effective mega pixels, 60 frames/s) with improved sensitivity and noise reduction - the key factors to enhancing image quality.

With a conventional front-illumination structure, the metal wiring and transistors on the surface of the silicon substrate that form the sensor's light-sensitive area (photo-diode) impede photon gathering carried out by the on-chip lens, and this has also been an important issue in the miniaturization of pixels and widening optical angle response.

A back-illuminated structure minimizes the degradation of sensitivity to optical angle response, while also increasing the amount of light that enters each pixel due to the lack of obstacles such as metal wiring and transistors that have been moved to the reverse of the silicon substrate.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:32 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 26):
Sony has been doing a lot of research into backlit CMOS sensors:

MD-90, thankyou.
That explains a lot, in fact I can't actually see where Apple used the term back lit, seems that came from Gizmodo.

Saying back lit made me think of how the displays in our computers, phones, tablets etc were illuminated and that didn't make sense.
Reversing the way sensors are made with the back of the sensitive area used for imaging unimpeded by wiring transistors etc, does make considerable sense!

Cheers
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:00 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
I've seen one person after another be disappointed with the iPhone after the initial buzz wares off.
I've also experienced entire companies that mistakenly were suckered by AT&T to opt for the iPhone, to only ditch them months later and go back to more traditional devices like Blackberry.

Your mileage will vary – which applies in either direction.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
Yes I call it a niche platform.

Apple has never been bothered about catering to just the top 5-10% of the market if that's where the sustainable margins are. They've never worried about leaving the scraps for the competition – even if that meant 95% of margin-less volume.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
Like much of Apple, they come up with a device and try to brain wash the world to what they feel they "must have" and everyone needs to run out and get one.

How many product presentations by Apple have you actually watched?

Apparently none.

Compared to most other presentations Apple's are altogether spartan, devoid of diversions and intensely focused on the actual product and its actual properties.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
I agree the market branding of Apple is fantastic, they really manage to build a devoted group of believers, however I don't believe they truly make product that the masses want or more importantly truly need.

Convince as many people of that as Apple has convinced with their actual products and we can talk.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
Basically to me Apple products are more hype then substance, especially when the price points are compared.

Actually, most Apple customers experience it exactly the other way around.

You may scoff at Apple promising so much less than others do. I on my part appreciate that they rather reliably only make promises which they can actually keep in practice. If a feature is built in, it works as advertised (if not better). If they couldn't get a feature to that level, it won't be in the product.

Would I prefer a product that over-promises and under-delivers instead, as is usual otherwise? No, at least I have lost my taste for that kind of letdown a long time ago.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
One big one still would be the ability to truly multi-task.
For example I find myself very often editing files, looking up things on the web, and working on an email at the same time, or even be a on a telcon simultaneously.

The telephone app, the Safari browser and the Mail app have always been able to run in the background on the iPhone (as have quite a few others). And all other apps are supposed to behave as if they did, and most do (just not actually doing work while closed, but in your example that is irrelevant).

So in actual practice, what you apparently thought would be impossible on the iPhone has always been standard issue all along.

So your entire point is moot. (And that even since iPhone OS 1, not just starting with iOS 4!)

Misconceptions like yours litter people's rants about the iPhone platform – most of the "critics" actually have no clue what they're talking about and much of what they complain about is actually nonexistent as a practical problem.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
Also what about that earlier fubar of no cut-paste. I mean what where they thinking?

Paraphrased: "Let's get the overall user interface really finished and usable; Let's make Cut & Paste redundant almost everywhere so we can push back the development effort to later when we've got the fundamentals safely behind us."

In fact, before Cut & Paste were introduced, there were maybe two of three instants in total when I actually missed it – most apps were already designed in a way that it was hardly ever needed as a crutch. And now it's an excellently usable, consistent, stable, system- and app-wide implementation. Would I have preferred a less stable system and a cruder and less completed user interface overall just for the sake of being able to tick a nominal box for a shoddy implementation of Cut & Paste? Not really.

Their priorities were correct (even if it would have been nice if they had had the resources to do both right in the beginning).

Again your lack of practical experience with the platform gives you a distorted perception of how important it would really have been.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
Anyhow, I see the iPhone as an entertainment platform, and not still as productivity or business phone which what my circle of friends and acquaintances look for. Movie or music player are a low priority compared to email, documents and other business activities.

You can see it that way, but others see it differently. The lack of proper security features precludes the use of Android in more sensitive areas, the increasingly evident decrepitude and the increasingly chafing limitations of the Blackberry platform erode its grasp on the corporate market and Windows mobile is already beyond help at this point.

Market shares don't shift linearly, but your underestimation of Apple with regard to "serious" applications is certainly misplaced. Especially corporate adoption is going at a rather decent speed from all I hear (I'm also using mine with a locked-down corporate Exchange account among other things).

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
As I said earlier, each to his own, but I am not being taken in by the Apple hype.

Not by its substance either, since you're apparently just oblivious of it, as shown above.

Quoting wingman (Reply 19):
So I just want a phone that I can text with and that does have some of these cool features like surfing the web and built in GPS for the car. Watching movies and multitasking on such a small screen seems kind of silly so it's really just about the basics: coverage, surfing speed, cost, plans etc. I'm leaning Incredible but let me know what you guys think. Thanks.

First: You don't need an iPhone with your usage profile.

Second: Having more than one iPhone in the family has its advantages.

Provided that AT&T coverage is sufficient for your personal uses (as compared to your wife's), an iPhone would probably make the more sense the more of a taste for data applications you're developing over time.

Among other things, every App you or your wife are buying can be deployed to all iOS devices without added cost – iPhones, iPod Touch, iPads are all included without limitation under the same Store account. The same is true for all paid content, even with DRM (movies, TV episodes, iBooks etc.).

I don't know the AT&T plans to that extent, but you'd probably get some kind of discount for the second iPhone plan (or an extension of the original plan).

My recommendation: Borrow your wife's iPhone and ask her to show you around; Try to get a good feeling of how it works. You'll probably realize if it's going into a direction that could interest you. Different people have different "killer applications".

Quoting racko (Reply 21):
Upon checking T-Mobile's iPhone contracts I retract my statement: Holy shit that's expensive.

How so?

I'm paying €24.95 including the device subsidy for 200MB + 60 minutes + weekend flat, which is generally reasonable (a €5,– rebate applies due to my DSL/landline plan also being with the Telekom).

Since most of my data usage goes transparently via WiFi, I've never fully used my data volume. But of course, your mileage may vary.

Quoting racko (Reply 21):
Someone should tell them that their whole HTML5-is-awesome-Flash-is-evil-we're-so-open yadda-yadda is sort of undermined by using another, far-less popular proprietary plug-in for web video.

It's a vestige of the old browser environments where more people still have plugins than HTML5-capable browser engines. They'll switch that over at some point.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 22):
As a photographer I have some understanding of optics and a little understanding of how sensors in digital cameras work, can someone tell me what a backlit sensor is, how it works and how it aids the photographic process?

See over there.

Quoting racko (Reply 23):
Someone should invent something very small, let's say 11 mm × 15 mm × 0,7 mm, that can save 32GB of data while being exchangeable. Then you could buy more than one and carry 64 or even 128GB with you all the time. If only...

Great idea. Due to the plugging mechanism this would mean ditching either some of the battery capacity or some other capabilites, in return lobotomizing the phone whenever switching cards (including serious risks like corrupting the boot volume and related issues), having to deal with the slower chips on these cards vs. the PCB-mounted ones, creating a chaotic situation with the need to manage removable volumes on the phone with all the synchronisation implications and support problems that entails – and realistically only a small fraction of all users ever actually using that expensively built-in feature.

Yeah, I can see why they should really have gone for that...!   

Engineering decisions almost always involve tradeoffs, and you rarely get something for nothing.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 25):
I don't think that videophones in general have been very popular because:
1) You need to stay in the camera frame
2) It uses a lot of bandwidth
3) It's rarely that useful outside of phone sex and a few other isolated uses
4) I get the sense that most people LIKE the fact that the caller can't see you. Gives you privacy to be on the phone while walking around the house naked/sitting on the crapper/cooking dinner.

As Jetson-esque an appeal as videophones have, I doubt it will become the standard.

Pretty much my attitude towards that feature, plus the less than flattering perspective from the typical position of the handset...

But that's just me.

[Edited 2010-06-07 18:05:15]
 
EI320
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:00 pm

RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:11 am

Fantastic phone. A new design was well overdue and Apple have one again stepped up to the mark. I've still a year left in my current contract so I'll wait for iPhone 5 before upgrading from the 3GS. Looking forward though to getting iOS 4 soon, which is a significant upgrade in itself. It also appears that iWork for iPhone may be coming soon.


On another note, Apple have released Safari 5 which is available immediately. Haven't got a chance to download it it on my Mac yet but it seems like quite a nice upgrade. Extensions have been added to the browser along with Safari Reader, a Bing search engine option and a 30% performance improvement over Safari 4 (or so they claim).

Have to say that iPhone 4 is one classy looking device though, a highly desirable phone....
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:30 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 28):

I never knew Steve Jobs was an airliners.net fan.

Seriously, you should considering sending your resume to Cupertino for corporate spokesperson position.

I admire your enthusiasm, however can hardly take to heart half your comments while you wear such rosy colored lenses.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Klaus
Posts: 20594
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:32 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 30):
I admire your enthusiasm, however can hardly take to heart half your comments while you wear such rosy colored lenses.

Try to match the substance. The rest will take care of itself.
 
Zentraedi
Posts: 609
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:30 pm

RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:23 am

Ugh, I wonder if Cisco is going to have a problem with the whole "iOS" thing.


Even then, the name is still problematic. iOS, so it runs on the iPhone, iPod, iPad....but wait...logically, shouldn't it also run on iMacs???
 
Ken777
Posts: 9048
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:06 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 17):
And how many billions of dollars has the Microsoft based PC industry created for the independent companies that support that software/PC universe?

Who cares?

We're talking "Little Old Apple" with only 3& of the computer market.

We're talking about a platform that is basically new - just getting started really.

We're talking only iOS devices that can benefit from the AppStore.

And we're talking about over a billion dollars paid out to developers.

Not too shabby for a new product that has been on the market for such a short time.

We'll see how the Win Mobile compares.

Or Android.

And one of the best lines from the Keynote was from the Elements developer ":I made more on the Elements iPad app on the first day than in 5 years of Google apps on periodictable.com"

Quoting tugger (Reply 17):
People try to feel better by showing how big they are, how many people use them, how much of the market they have, but for YEARS the Apple fans how pointedly noted that size and market share does not a great company make. I will respectfully say that using that same argument now is somewhat disingenuous.

Well, we have Apple, small market share in computers (but nicely profitable) with a hefty cash chest for tough times as well as R&D. Then we have Dell with a far higher market share and Mike Dell having to return to the company. WHich would you put your trust into for being around in a few years? Or begin able to be innovative in the market?

OK, so you might prefer Dell.   

Quoting wingman (Reply 19):
So here I am Apple Lovers and Apple Haters, a true independent and undecided voter. What should I do...stay with Verizon and go with the Droid Incredible or jump ship to the iPhone4? Consider the following:
Quoting wingman (Reply 19):
I'm a loyal Verizon customer

If you're happy with what you have then you need something to really grab you before you change. Especially if Verizon gets the iPhone in a few months,

Quoting wingman (Reply 19):
I'm a loyal Apple customer and run my household on their products.

Jobs & Co really appreciate that.  

Maybe keep your old phone and get an iPad. It'll drive your wife crazy!

Quoting wingman (Reply 19):
So here I'm figuring why not have two carriers for complete coverage when we travel around the country. Score one for the Incredible.

Unless you can get a second line with ATT for $10 and a free phone (a basic, cheap one) that allows you to add the iPad.

(As you can tell, I'm really starting to like the iPd + free phone option,)

Quoting wingman (Reply 19):
I'm a telephone technology caveman and have been using the same flip top Samsung for 5 years now.

If it still works why change? If you can't save money running a 2nd line at ATT then just use the old dog until it runs dry. Then look at the options.

Quoting wingman (Reply 19):
Personally I think texting is for sex crazed teenagers and I'm now officially "Old School" for just calling people back when they text me. I know this is becoming more and more annoying to my friends I'm just an old fart who still likes to talk to people.

Texting is also a great revenue generator for the carriers. I'm half a century past being a sex crazed teenager and had the prostate removed because of cancer, I don't text either.   

I prefer calling - that way people don't know how bad a typist I am. It's also faster. Texting is great when your spouse sends you a list of groceries to pick up on the way home,

Quoting Klaus (Reply 28):
Market shares don't shift linearly, but your underestimation of Apple with regard to "serious" applications is certainly misplaced. Especially corporate adoption is going at a rather decent speed from all I hear (I'm also using mine with a locked-down corporate Exchange account among other things).

I understand that the military is also using it in the field - an off the shelf iPhone!

As for business, firsts they started providing iOS apps - especially banks and insurance companies. They'll continue to increase exposure and acceptance of iOS over time, with the iPad being a large factor.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 30):
I admire your enthusiasm, however can hardly take to heart half your comments while you wear such rosy colored lenses.

I actually thought Klaus was being rather reserved in his comments. IT folks tend to do that. And generally the experienced ones tend to understate the positive side and minimize expectations. Apple tends to break that barrier down.
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:32 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 30):
I admire your enthusiasm, however can hardly take to heart half your comments while you wear such rosy colored lenses.

Guess Apple has sold 100 million rosy colored lenses to happy consumers. I think Those lenses will become a LOT MORE popular in the near future.
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
Springbok747
Posts: 4007
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:40 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
so you might prefer Dell.

Um..I've had 10 Dell computers so far..no problems with any of them. Yes they have shabby customer service, but nothing wrong with their computers. Oh wait..I get it..they aren't shiny pieces of iCrap..so they don't have the "coolness" factor...right right...  
אני תומך בישראל
 
Stealthz
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:46 am

It does at time seem difficult Klaus, to believe you are not an integral and very loyal member of the Apple sales team!

Quoting Klaus (Reply 28):
Quoting stealthz (Reply 22):
As a photographer I have some understanding of optics and a little understanding of how sensors in digital cameras work, can someone tell me what a backlit sensor is, how it works and how it aids the photographic process?

See over there.

Your answer smacked very much of the -- "Magical", "Revolutionary" or "Steve said so" I was hoping to avoid and didn't actually answer the question.

MD-90 did so quite adequately in a later post in this thread so all is good!

Cheers
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
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Tugger
Posts: 6020
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:59 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
Quoting tugger (Reply 17):
And how many billions of dollars has the Microsoft based PC industry created for the independent companies that support that software/PC universe?

Who cares?

Well.... you do:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 15):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
That "niche platform"?

Yep. The one that has paid out over a Billion Dollars to developers for their app sales.

I was merely commenting on your enthusiasm for the billion dollars that Apple based PC industry (the iMac, iPhone, iPad, etc really are actual Personal Computers) participants have earned. This has happened before but with "the other" PC industry standard. And it's OK.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
We're talking about a platform that is basically new - just getting started really.

We're talking only iOS devices that can benefit from the AppStore.

And we're talking about over a billion dollars paid out to developers.

Not too shabby for a new product that has been on the market for such a short time.


You are absolutely correct, it is a new market and only just really getting started. And for comparison Android phones started coming out in 2009 and Android really only really came into own with 2.0 and it's appstore has over 30k apps now. That too is impressive. If you are impressed by these early numbers, both groups should impress you that they are doing well.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
We'll see how the Win Mobile compares.
Or Android.

We'll have to see, the market is so new yet, there is no way to know how it will turn out in the next dozen years.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
And one of the best lines from the Keynote was from the Elements developer ":I made more on the Elements iPad app on the first day than in 5 years of Google apps on periodictable.com"

And many have made more money on Google stock than Apples (and many the other way around of course). It's really just timing and if you hit the market at the right time with the right product. That quote really doesn't signify much on its own, what will be significant is if it is repeated by thousands of others and leads to hundreds of successful companies being formed and creating new product for the market. That is true success.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
Quoting tugger (Reply 17):People try to feel better by showing how big they are, how many people use them, how much of the market they have, but for YEARS the Apple fans how pointedly noted that size and market share does not a great company make. I will respectfully say that using that same argument now is somewhat disingenuous.

Well, we have Apple, small market share in computers (but nicely profitable) with a hefty cash chest for tough times as well as R&D. Then we have Dell with a far higher market share and Mike Dell having to return to the company. WHich would you put your trust into for being around in a few years? Or begin able to be innovative in the market?

OK, so you might prefer Dell.

I "prefer" neither. A wise man would hedge his bet and be in both companies if he feels both have value. Right now Apple is very expensive right now, it's P/E ratio is 21! Dell's is only 16 (and Microsoft is even better at only 13). And Apple's stock has a huge weakness and that is Steve Jobs, if this one man goes down the value of Aple goes with it. Would stay down? Who knows? Right now it is on top but I very much fear single point failure systems. Would you flying on an airline that only has one pilot up front? I am not criticizing Apple just point out concerns I have.

OK, so you might prefer Apple even then.

Quoting theredbaron (Reply 34):
Guess Apple has sold 100 million rosy colored lenses to happy consumers. I think Those lenses will become a LOT MORE popular in the near future.

Well lets be truthful, how many people have they really sold to? Most people I know have more than one of thise products or have bought the next gen when it came out. So I would guess (yes, it is only a guess, I'll have to leave to later to come up with real numbers) that there are more likely 50 to 70 million "happy consumers". Still a very respectable number. Meanwhile there are what...?... one billion cell phone units sold each year? And the PC market is expected to decline this year... to just over 230 millions units sold vs Apples projected sales of 12 million units. The number of units that Apple has sold is very impressive and it does own the PMP market in sales and branding power but those numbers only go so far (though Apple's margins are always amazing compared to others in the industry). Apple is on the right path and it looks good that it well do well, very well, in the future but as every financially wise person knows, past performance is no guarantee of future performance.

I appreciate that people enjoy using the products that Apple makes. They really do make terrific products and know their market fantastically well. The iPhone 4 is a very nice piece of engineering and functionality. It will do very well in the market and have huge sales volumes.

Has anyone realized that what we just saw revealed for the iPhone is what we will likely see released for the next gen iPad? That will be impressive. I wonder just how much will be ported to the iPad and what is likely to not make it.
Any smart tablet maker should be staring at the iPhone 4 for their target and not at the current iPad.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Klaus
Posts: 20594
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:21 am

Quoting stealthz (Reply 36):
It does at time seem difficult Klaus, to believe you are not an integral and very loyal member of the Apple sales team!

I keep rather tightly to what I know from my own experience as a user and as a hardware and software developer myself. When I spend considerable time on explaining my reasoning and providing technical background and all I get back are inane stereotypes like that without any attempt to respond to my actual arguments, do you think that is appropriate?

Quoting stealthz (Reply 36):
our answer smacked very much of the -- "Magical", "Revolutionary" or "Steve said so" I was hoping to avoid and didn't actually answer the question

How so?

I'm probably wasting my time yet again, but I'll still try to document my post which you chose to ridicule offhandedly:

From the other thread:
"Apple IPhone Customers Are Delusional Liars" (by AirPacific747 Jun 6 2010 in Non Aviation)

(What a great example of civility and differentiated argumentation by itself!)

Quoting Klaus (Reply 19):
This seems to be the operative point:

http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/camera.html

Quote:
The advanced backside illumination sensor allows you to shoot low-light photos that are brighter and clearer than ever before.

Official statement – unlikely to be factually false.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 19):
Apparently referring to improved automatic exposure control in low-light situations.

Apparently incorrect conjecture on my part, having forgotten the sensor technology variant MD-90 described and which I had in fact earlier read about as well. My conjecture seemed plausible given the official and somewhat misleading text, but MD-90's description is probably still correct.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 19):
According to Jobs the sensor pixel size remained identical while the resolution has been increased (meaning larger total sensor area)

Both official statements during the presentation again. Unlikely to be factually incorrect.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 19):
and the lens appears to be significantly larger too,

Obvious and easy to verify.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 19):
so together with probably improved sensor technology

Relatively obvious conclusion from my own experience in the industry and observation of component progression.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 19):
it should be expected that noise levels in low-light situations should be improved indeed.

Given the previous information, this would normally be an obvious conclusion.

You know, I don't strictly have to provide actual arguments and detailed reasoning based on available facts and experience. I could also just resort to summarily dismissing the other posters and calling them names instead of bothering to read and actually respond to their specific arguments.

I just think it's basic courtesy to do that.

Apparently that kind of respect is not mutual. Pity.
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:23 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 28):
How so?

I'm paying €24.95 including the device subsidy for 200MB + 60 minutes + weekend flat, which is generally reasonable (a €5,– rebate applies due to my DSL/landline plan also being with the Telekom).

Since most of my data usage goes transparently via WiFi, I've never fully used my data volume. But of course, your mileage may vary.

My usage currently averages around 100 minutes of phone time and about 80 SMS per month, sometimes slightly more, sometimes slightly less.

To fit that with T-Mobile's contracts I'd need a "Complete 120" from T-Mobile with an additional 40 SMS package which costs me 4,95€, which brings me to 54,90 per month plus the 179,95 for the iPhone itself. Over 24 months the total cost is 1497,55€.

Now if I'd get a Nexus One with the O2 inklusivpaket 100 and a 1GB data package this costs me 25€ per month and the Nexus One costs 219€. Price over 24 months: 819€.

That's almost a 700€ premium for the iPhone - that's pretty steep considering that T-Mobile network isn't really superior to O2's anymore. If 200MB a month really are enough the difference is skewed even more into O2's direction as this lowers the monthly cost to 20€.
 
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OA260
Posts: 21035
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RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:26 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 25):
3) It's rarely that useful outside of phone sex and a few other isolated uses

Whatever floats your boat  
Quoting EI320 (Reply 29):
Have to say that iPhone 4 is one classy looking device though, a highly desirable phone....

Yeah Im just waiting to see how much we will pay for it here on Vodafone and O2. Also on prepay VF have the 3GS for €519 and I prefer to pay outright for the iPhone rather than a 18 months contract. So Im allowing maybe around €700 for the iPhone 4 on prepay.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20594
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:09 am

Quoting racko (Reply 39):
To fit that with T-Mobile's contracts I'd need a "Complete 120" from T-Mobile with an additional 40 SMS package which costs me 4,95€, which brings me to 54,90 per month plus the 179,95 for the iPhone itself. Over 24 months the total cost is 1497,55€.

The plan that actually covers your usage completely isn't necessarily the best option – you might still be better off getting the smaller plan and paying up for some of your exceeding consumption.

Quoting racko (Reply 39):
Now if I'd get a Nexus One with the O2 inklusivpaket 100 and a 1GB data package this costs me 25€ per month and the Nexus One costs 219€. Price over 24 months: 819€.

Sure. O2 has a limited network and the Nexus One is on fire sale to clear out the remaining inventory after tepid sales. Both are cheaper for a reason, so be prepared to live with the compromises.

Quoting racko (Reply 39):
That's almost a 700€ premium for the iPhone - that's pretty steep considering that T-Mobile network isn't really superior to O2's anymore.

It depends on where you are and how important wide-ranging coverage is to you. Also the effective speeds many people get on O2 are not good – T-Mobile has a reliable and still quite fast EDGE fallback, with O2 people often fall through all the way to GPRS in many cases from what I've heard.
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:24 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41):
The plan that actually covers your usage completely isn't necessarily the best option – you might still be better off getting the smaller plan and paying up for some of your exceeding consumption.

As I said, I've analyzed my usage in the first months of this year and this is where I end up. T-Mobile's Complete 60 is especially hurt by having no SMS included at all, meaning I'd have to the 150 SMS package for 15 bucks a month anyway. Together with the exceeding phone minutes this makes it unattractive.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41):
O2 has a limited network

The O2 network is on par with T-Mobile's network and even outperforms it in situations with heavy usage like at a football match (Because T-Mobile has more users, no doubt, but that doesn't change the fact). I should know, my company phone is on T-Mobile, my private phone is on O2. O2 has invested heavily into their network in the last years and have brought from the miserable level of E-Plus to the level of the 2 big ones.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41):
the Nexus One is on fire sale to clear out the remaining inventory after tepid sales

The HTC Desire is 40 bucks more. Doesn't really change the equation, does it?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41):
It depends on where you are and how important wide-ranging coverage is to you. Also the effective speeds many people get on O2 are not good – T-Mobile has a reliable and still quite fast EDGE fallback, with O2 people often fall through all the way to GPRS in many cases from what I've heard.

I'm on both networks at the moment, I don't have any problems with either of them - except for when I'm attending a football match - then T-Mobile's rendered almost useless.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20594
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:29 am

Quoting racko (Reply 42):
The HTC Desire is 40 bucks more. Doesn't really change the equation, does it?

Not really – and that is not a good thing from my point of view...   

Quoting racko (Reply 42):
I'm on both networks at the moment, I don't have any problems with either of them - except for when I'm attending a football match - then T-Mobile's rendered almost useless.

Great if the coverage is well-suited to what you need in practice.
 
Ken777
Posts: 9048
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:12 pm

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 35):
Yes they have shabby customer service, but nothing wrong with their computers. Oh wait..I get it..they aren't shiny pieces of iCrap..so they don't have the "coolness" factor...right right..

If you're into IT then the shabby customer service doesn't matter that much. If, like me, you don't have the time or inclination to keep up on the technical side then customer service is a critical component for a computer - especially one used in a small business.

And, as I mentioned before, Dell had outstanding support for many years and I used them with a lot of confidence. Their support folks were actual "in-country" Dell employees who wanted to take care of you so you'd remain a customer. And I remained a customer.

Then Dell dumped those folks taking care of me - definitely not "cool" - and went to a third party company overseas to make it super cheap. That caused me a week of misery on my office desktop so I decided to go with the company that had the highest rated customer service - that was Apple,

For a one man company traveling overseas on business "coolness" means squat. When I need help I need high quality help from someone there to take care of me, not just get me off the phone line ASAP.

Quoting tugger (Reply 37):
I was merely commenting on your enthusiasm for the billion dollars that Apple based PC industry (the iMac, iPhone, iPad, etc really are actual Personal Computers) participants have earned. This has happened before but with "the other" PC industry standard. And it's OK.

You need to exclude the iMac - that's a computer running OS X. The iOS platform is limited (so far) to the iPhone, iPad and iPod touch. That's a restricted market in the IT world so the $1 Billion is impressive, especially when most apps are inexpensive, or free "lite" versions.

Quoting tugger (Reply 37):
You are absolutely correct, it is a new market and only just really getting started. And for comparison Android phones started coming out in 2009 and Android really only really came into own with 2.0 and it's appstore has over 30k apps now. That too is impressive. If you are impressed by these early numbers, both groups should impress you that they are doing well.

Both groups do impress me. I believe that both will continue to gain market share at the expense of both MS & RIM. I believe Apple will have an advantage of providing both the hardware and OS. Google needs to avoid the MS situation where there are far too many combinations of hardware to service.

Quoting tugger (Reply 37):
Would you flying on an airline that only has one pilot up front? I am not criticizing Apple just point out concerns I have.

Steve Jobs is considered to be one of the best CEOs around, but he also has brought together an outstanding team. Jonathan Ive is a solid example of that.

And Apple under Jobs has developed a corporate attitude of "doing it right" - not just making the products as cheap as possible. (Maybe BP wouldn't be in the situation they are in today with their oil spill if they had taken that approach.) Apple therefore is in a pretty good position to go forward without Jobs. Their roadmap goes out 18 to 24 months and there is sufficient talent to keep it expanding.

And another critical factor - the people at Apple know their future is in developing products people lust after - not in taking the Dell approach to super cheap.

Quoting tugger (Reply 37):
OK, so you might prefer Apple even then.

Actually I would because of the quality of customer support. Even with "one pilot" I also believe that Apple is more secure for the consumer than Dell. After seeing the generic PC market turn into a commodity, and seeing companies like IBM and Compaq fall by the wayside are you really that sure about Dell's future?

Quoting tugger (Reply 37):
Meanwhile there are what...?... one billion cell phone units sold each year?

And how many are "smart phones"? How many are inexpensive models you get for "free" when you sign up for a 2 year contract? The key is Apple's performance in the market they targeted - and that's not too shabby.

Quoting tugger (Reply 37):
as every financially wise person knows, past performance is no guarantee of future performance.

Might be why Jobs has worked hard since his return to expand the scope of products: iPod, iPhone, iPad on the hardware side as well as some solid software. Or why he's also worked hard to build up a solid cash base, which at some point may exceed their annual sales.

And an impressive part of the Apple product range is that it can all fit on one table. Limited product ranges minimize costs, allows more focus of R&D funds, and more promotional dollars spent on each product.

So, while Apple may not stay strong forever, they are very well positioned for a solid, long-term run.
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:16 pm

i am avid apple follwer as I used to be when I owned a mac and an ipod. I never really like previous iphones, especially for the lack of multitasking. But credit where credit is due, this is a good phone, they did well this time.

Great New things:
1. THe screen. Not even the EVO has a screen like that, even though it is bigger. 960 x 640 in 3.5 inches is taking this to the next level. Well done Apple.

2. The ability to make folders in the launcher. Yes it is a small detail, but it is a great small detail.

3. The design it is is even thinner that the Black Slab (EVO) 0.37in vs. 0,47, and they did it making the device looking quite pretty. We have to admit that.

Things that should have been there from the start.
1. Mutlitasking. FINALLY ( I want to hear Apple fans say now, that they don't need it. It is a great thing to be able to do and I use it constantly on my phone).

2. Front camara, Not many phones have it, but the EVO does and I am glad it is become a thing of the present. Glad Apple included this.

3. Flash... Did I hear previous Iphones didn't have some sort of flash? Well I don't even even need to say more.

At the end of the day, it is not a revolutionary device, but it is a good one this time around.. Well done..
There is something special about planes....
 
EI320
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:00 pm

RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:19 pm

Quoting oa260 (Reply 40):
Yeah Im just waiting to see how much we will pay for it here on Vodafone and O2.

iPhone 4 should retail at the current 3GS prices. €199 for the 16GB version and €299 for the 32GB version on bill pay which ties you into an 18 month contract of course. As you say the iPhone 3GS is available for €519 on p/p and I expect this price will remain the same for iPhone 4. The 3GS will then fall in price.

Quoting oa260 (Reply 40):
So Im allowing maybe around €700 for the iPhone 4 on prepay.

It shouldn't come even close to that figure luckily. There's very few people who'd be prepared to pay that sort of money up front for a phone.

One thing to keep in mind is the data charges. On bill pay you get a large data allowance, whereas on pre-pay you'll have to pay €1 for every day you use your 3G/EDGE connection.

I like having unlimited internet access available to me everywhere I go and because I use the 3G connection quite a lot, I figured that bill pay would actually work out a little cheaper for me.

On the downside, data charges whilst roaming are extortionate. I was over in the UK for a day last week and was charged €16 in data charges for just a little internet browsing. Needless to say I won't be availing of the 3G connection abroad again!!

I know that the idea of bill pay doesn't seem very attractive initially, but I'd definitely suggest taking a good look at the iPhone plans that each carrier is offering, do the maths, then make your choice. If you can stick to your call/message/data allowance each month (easier said than done sometimes), bill pay isn't all that bad.
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:28 pm

Found another funny thing while browsing Apple's page:

http://www.apple.com/html5/

Now when I try to click on any demo I'm greeted by a friendly "You’ll need to download Safari to view this demo.". Mind you, I'm not using IE6, I'm on Version 5 of Google Chrome which is just a few days old. The same with Firefox 3.6.3. Way to advertise HTML5 usage.   
 
Zentraedi
Posts: 609
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:30 pm

RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:57 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 47):
Found another funny thing while browsing Apple's page:

http://www.apple.com/html5/

Now when I try to click on any demo I'm greeted by a friendly "You’ll need to download Safari to view this demo.". Mind you, I'm not using IE6, I'm on Version 5 of Google Chrome which is just a few days old. The same with Firefox 3.6.3. Way to advertise HTML5 usage.

That's especially funny considering Chrome 5 has better HTML 5 than even Apple's new Safari 5.0.

http://html5test.com/

Chrome 5: 142 / 160
Safari 5: 136 / 160
Safari 4: 113 / 160
Firefox 3.6.3: 101 / 160
 
UA772IAD
Posts: 1269
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:43 am

RE: Apple Unveils IPhone 4 And New Features

Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:58 pm

Quoting wingman (Reply 19):
1. I'm a loyal Verizon customer and rarely, if ever, take a personal phone overseas (so the CDMA thing doesn't bother me). A work cell always but while on personal vacations abroad I'd rather no speak to anyone back home unless there's an emergency (send me an email which I check daily). Toss Up.

It really depends on where you are. However, I have NEVER heard anyone complain about Verizon's service. You can get a signal almost anywhere. AT&T on the other hand, is a bit spotty. Its okay to pretty good on the East Coast and terrible out West. I've been in big cities in California: San Francisco, San Jose, Sacramento, and have had calls dropped frequently. My friends on Verizon rarely experienced this, and could even talk on the phone in lifts (elevators) and underground in parking garages and subway stations/onboard the trains.

The only reason to go to AT&T is for the iPhone. My immediate family has iPhones, I have a Blackberry and am stuck with AT&T until my contract is up. I personally don't want an iPhone.

Ask your friends and coworkers with iPhones or AT&T if they are satisfied with the service. That should help...

Also consider the price. Not just of the phone, but the data packages required. I believe the iPhone has a data package more expensive than the additional data package required for the Blackberry and other smartphones that have e-mail and data capabilities. That's also a factor worth considering.

[Edited 2010-06-08 08:59:50]

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