seb146
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Baseball Perfect Game Question

Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:19 am

Explain something to me: Why is it a "perfect game" with no hits when a guy hits the ball? I saw the end of the last perfect game and the call that cost another pitcher a perfect game. Both batters hit the ball. A fielder caught the ball and threw it across the field to first base. The batter had to run. Why is that not a hit?
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Newark777
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RE: Baseball Perfect Game Question

Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:35 am

Quoting seb146 (Thread starter):
Why is that not a hit?

A perfect game is all 27 hitters retired in order; it has nothing to do with making contact or not. In the non-perfect-game-that-almost-was, the hitter was called safe at first, therefore he got a hit, was not retired, and the perfect game was over.

There is luck involved, because you need your defenders to make plays behind you to preserve the perfect game. The most dominating pitching performance I've ever seen was neither a perfect game nor no hitter; it was Kerry Wood's 20 strikeout game years ago. If I remember, it was an infield single to the left side early in the game that separated it from a no hitter. That's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.
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waterpolodan
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RE: Baseball Perfect Game Question

Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:38 am

It's only a "hit" in the stat sense if he gets on base safely. Every perfect game involves certain amounts of contact between the ball and bat, usually there are a few hits where the ball is caught on the fly and the batter is out, or like this recent game, grounders where the ball is thrown to first before the batter reaches base and he is out. The only way for a pitcher to have a perfect game with no contact between the bat and the ball would be nothing but strikeouts (with no foul tips in there), and that'd only happen if an MLB pitcher was throwing his best stuff to a bunch of 6 year olds with pencils for bats.
 
BMI727
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RE: Baseball Perfect Game Question

Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:05 am

Quoting newark777 (Reply 1):

A better definition of a perfect game is when no opposing players reached base. In his first no hitter, Mark Buehrle did retire all 27 hitters in order, but it was not a perfect game because Sammy Sosa reached firts and was then picked off.

And you are right that according to sabremetricians, Wood's 20 K game was possibly the most dominating pitching performance in history, but was not a perfect game or even a no hitter.

And one final word is that last week the umpire thought the runner beat the throw, making it a hit. Had he said that the first baseman was bobbling the ball or something like that, it would have been scored as an error, leaving the no hitter intact.
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Mudboy
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RE: Baseball Perfect Game Question

Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:22 am

I know I asked before why Bud Selig could not overturn the call, but could the players not have appealed to the Crew Chief? As big of a baseball as I am, I need to learn all the litlle rules that these situations bring out.
 
Newark777
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RE: Baseball Perfect Game Question

Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:41 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
but it was not a perfect game because Sammy Sosa reached firts and was then picked off.

If he reached first, he didn't retire all 27 HITTERS in order then.  
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):

And you are right that according to sabremetricians, Wood's 20 K game was possibly the most dominating pitching performance in history, but was not a perfect game or even a no hitter.

I think the number folks do rank that game pretty highly, but I was going on just watching the game myself. While many of the recent no hitters and perfect games were impressive, Wood's game was just pure domination.

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 4):
I know I asked before why Bud Selig could not overturn the call, but could the players not have appealed to the Crew Chief?

I believe the other umps could gather and ask Joyce whether he got a clear look at it, but if Joyce confirmed there on the field that he was safe, there was nothing the other umps could do about it. That's the way I heard it explained, at least.
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BMI727
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RE: Baseball Perfect Game Question

Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:31 pm

Quoting newark777 (Reply 5):
If he reached first, he didn't retire all 27 HITTERS in order then

I think that technically he did actually. Sosa reached first (on a walk I think) and was then picked off before the next out (if my memory is correct), so he would have retired the batters in order, but not achieved a perfect game.
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Newark777
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RE: Baseball Perfect Game Question

Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:50 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
so he would have retired the batters in order, but not achieved a perfect game.

It's really semantics, but walking someone is NOT retiring them. Picking them off is a separate event.

EDIT: I just looked up the MLB definition, and they define it as no batter reaching base. So that's that, you're correct BMI.  



[Edited 2010-06-08 07:56:18]
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RE: Baseball Perfect Game Question

Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:44 pm

Quoting seb146 (Thread starter):
Why is that not a hit?

It would only be a hit if the batter reached base before the throw from the fielder did.



I still don't see how the umpire could have blown the call that badly......it wasn't even a bang bang play. The ball was obviously in the glove and the runner's foot is still a good 6 inches above the bag. At least both the pitcher and the umpire were both civilized about it afterwords.



As an aside, I remember hearing a story about Andre Dawson, when he was with the Cubs. The home plate umpire had called him out on strikes and Dawson started arguing about it. The umpire threw him out of the game, but Dawson wasn't done. He went back to the dugout and started throwing batting helmets and bats out of the dugout. Needless to say, the baseball commissioner fined Dawson and when he sent his check to pay for the fine, on the memo line he wrote, "donation for the blind"! The commissioner promptly fined him, again.
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Newark777
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RE: Baseball Perfect Game Question

Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:01 am

Speaking of dominating pitching performances, I hope others have been watching the Strasburg debut. 14K in a MLB debut? That's just nasty.
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bjorn14
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RE: Baseball Perfect Game Question

Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:25 pm

Even if you tossed the perfect game you could still lose say 1-0. IIRC, it happened to some Philly pitcher a few years back.
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BMI727
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RE: Baseball Perfect Game Question

Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:27 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 10):
Even if you tossed the perfect game you could still lose say 1-0.

That could not happen in a perfect game. A no hitter yes, but not a perfect game.
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bjorn14
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RE: Baseball Perfect Game Question

Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:35 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
That could not happen in a perfect game. A no hitter yes, but not a perfect game

Your're correct a no-hitter is a little different than a perfect game (no walks, errors, hits or HBPs.)
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Newark777
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RE: Baseball Perfect Game Question

Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:43 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 10):
Even if you tossed the perfect game you could still lose say 1-0. IIRC, it happened to some Philly pitcher a few years back.

AJ Burnett actually walked 9 batters during his no hitter years back. He said he was embarrassed about the game because he was so wild.  
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PIA777
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RE: Baseball Perfect Game Question

Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:37 am

Quoting newark777 (Reply 1):
it was Kerry Wood's 20 strikeout game years ago. If I remember, it was an infield single to the left side early in the game that separated it from a no hitter. That's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

That easily could have been an Error on Kevin Orie.

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N1120A
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RE: Baseball Perfect Game Question

Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:14 am

Quoting seb146 (Thread starter):
Why is it a "perfect game" with no hits when a guy hits the ball?

A "hit" in baseball isn't making contact. You much reach base upon making contact with no errors or other plays on a fielder's choice for it to be scored a hit.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):

And you are right that according to sabremetricians, Wood's 20 K game was possibly the most dominating pitching performance in history, but was not a perfect game or even a no hitter.

It was definitely right up there. Same with Pedro Martinez' perfect game through 9 that he lost and Harvey Haddix' 14 perfect innings.

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 4):
but could the players not have appealed to the Crew Chief?

I'm not sure, but I think Joyce may have been the crew chief. The one who should have been on that is the second base umpire.

Quoting newark777 (Reply 9):
Speaking of dominating pitching performances, I hope others have been watching the Strasburg debut. 14K in a MLB debut? That's just nasty.

The more impressive thing is that he didn't walk anyone. Then again, he did allow a couple homers.

Quoting PIA777 (Reply 14):

That easily could have been an Error on Kevin Orie.

It was clearly an Error. That was another travesty.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 12):

Your're correct a no-hitter is a little different than a perfect game (no walks, errors, hits or HBPs.)

Or strikeout/wild pitches, etc.
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: Baseball Perfect Game Question

Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:51 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):

I'm not sure, but I think Joyce may have been the crew chief. The one who should have been on that is the second base umpire.

Nope, Joyce isn't a crew chief. He's on the crew of Derryl Cousins along with Marvin Hudson and Jim Wolf.
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