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Dreadnought
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Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:04 am

Post them here...

Pretty short. I expected him to explain his Energy policy going through Congress, but no details. It's a wasted opportunity for him. He should have laid it out - here's what I want it to do, 1, 2, 3...
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fxramper
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:12 am

Too many Bushwackers with Jimmy Carville beforehand. Gotta love this on Google posted this afternoon.   
 
sw733
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:06 am

I was really shocked how far he strayed from the situation at hand. This speech should have been completely about how they would fix the current problem and make sure BP paid and found solutions to make sure it never happened again. Instead, it was largely (at least 50%) about alternative fuels in the future. Yes, that's important...but not right now. Right now, it's about SOLVING THE CURRENT PROBLEM. I think it was a blown speech by Obama, and really showed that his administration has no idea what to do.

(Not an anti-Obama statement, but rather an anti-Obama/administration priority statement)

He botched this one bad...
 
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:35 am

He did mess up a bit by not detailing his plan more clearly. However, what I do find unfair (though in politics, nothing is fair) is Republicans blasting Obama for his slow response to this crisis and some even going further by criticizing his decision for offshore drilling and now suspending it.

I seem to recall a certain GOP candidate back in 2008 who had many supporters with the slogan "Drill, baby, drill." Where are they now?

Simply put, we do expect Obama to be tough on a company that has been proven to skip procedures in order to save $$$, but that's also no reason to expect him to go down to the Gulf and plug the hole himself.

Quoting sw733 (Reply 2):
Instead, it was largely (at least 50%) about alternative fuels in the future. Yes, that's important...but not right now. Right now, it's about SOLVING THE CURRENT PROBLEM.

Well, it IS a solution to the problem. Alternative fuels = less oil = less incidents like this one in the future. That won't plug up the hole, but it does ensure that another leak does not start. Once this one is closed and cleaned, how do we know another oil rig won't burn and sink, and open another leak, possibly worse?
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Okie
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:43 am

Quoting sw733 (Reply 2):
Right now, it's about SOLVING THE CURRENT PROBLEM. I think it was a blown speech by Obama, and really showed that his administration has no idea what to do


  

My take was that it was a Cap and Tax campaign speech instead of Capping a Oil Well speech.

I suspect if you surround yourself with political advisors then you lose touch with the people and get off on political campaigns. I was hoping for some leadership if only a twinkling.

What is with the $20 Billion political campaign fund anyway, so far as well as we know BP has shown some effort to pay legitimate claims. I would wait on that one until BP refuses to pay claims, sure sounds like a major concern for political abuse.

Okie
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:47 am

Quoting sw733 (Reply 2):
I was really shocked how far he strayed from the situation at hand. This speech should have been completely about how they would fix the current problem and make sure BP paid and found solutions to make sure it never happened again. Instead, it was largely (at least 50%) about alternative fuels in the future. Yes, that's important...but not right now. Right now, it's about SOLVING THE CURRENT PROBLEM. I think it was a blown speech by Obama, and really showed that his administration has no idea what to do.

I completely disagree. This is EXACTLY the moment he needs to be pushing energy reform in this country. If we had stuck to the reform that should have happened in the 1980s, this well may have never even been drilled.

I think he hit the points he needed to hit - the government, however sloppily they have been doing it, is responding the only way they really can. This isn't the government's well, and it's BP's problem to fix. Constantly shaking fingers at BP won't plug the well any faster. He mentioned the complete disaster the MMS was, and that he's fixing it...I would have liked to hear more about how that would happen. The president's job isn't to direct every operation going on to fix this problem - it's to appoint people to positions that oversee different aspects, and relay information to the American public. Has he done that well? I would have liked a speech earlier, and more concrete information, just like anyone else. The facts are though, that this event is unprecedented and caught the entire world by surprise. I really don't know what else people can expect to have been done up to this point.
 
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:50 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 5):
I really don't know what else people can expect to have been done up to this point.

I do.. he could have flown over the coast, like some other President did,, he could have made "out of touch" remarks like "heck of a job Brownie"

If he had done that, he would have Dread and Okie's respect. It could have been that easy.

Or he could have asked the president to BP to commit suicide like that Republican from Louisiana..

[Edited 2010-06-15 19:53:40]
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ltbewr
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:59 am

Like many, I was quite disappointed in this speech tonight.

Our President, like all but a tiny few political leaders out of fear of losing votes, will not push for what is really needed and would work best to reduce oil and other energy consumption - higher taxes on energy products and a major push for conservation. As seriously flawed as President Jimmy Carter was, the conservation policy he pushed did cut energy fuel use and still helps to this day. While there continues to be a push for more efficiency and short term as well as long term would be the quickest to show a beneift, itself it is not enough. Higher taxes would lower consumption, but with so many having to drive to the jobs they have, the lousy economy and other factors, they cannot afford the extra $10-20 a week for gas higher taxes could mean or the cost of a new high mileage car and in turn losing votes.

Most annoying to me is the last part of his speech, almost suggesting we need to 'pray' for help from "God" to get through this disaster. Praying may get you a few religious types, but it is not a real polcy. Our President must take a strong lead and say what he wants in the bill he will sign, say he will veto anything else, put the 'blue dog' Democrats and Republicans into a corner if they don't support needed changes. FDR and LBJ were not afaid to step on toes and push their critical agendas to help the economy recover and civil rights respectively. Pres. Obama needs to take a simliar strong stand.
 
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:01 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 7):
almost suggesting we need to 'pray' for help from "God" to get through this disaster. Praying may get you a few religious types, but it is not a real polcy.

Are you kidding me? God is not policy.. That must be some wake up call to Right!

God asked to start the war in Iraq you know... What God says.. we listen...

[Edited 2010-06-15 20:03:01]
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:58 am

Quoting mt99 (Reply 6):
Quoting mt99 (Reply 8):

mt99 with the epic divert to Republicans tactic again... Since you are such a large Obama supporter, why don't you talk about the topic at hand? Can you not defend him this time?  
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flynlr
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:38 am

well that speech pretty much confirmed one thing,.,. what we have here is Jimmy Carter V2.0
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bjorn14
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:01 am

BP=Barry's Problem. BHO is the guy who criticizes the USSC over the campaign finance/speech law but took untold gobs of $$$ from BP to get elected. I hope the Brits find his Kenyan birth certificate.  
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:57 pm

Quoting flynlr (Reply 10):
well that speech pretty much confirmed one thing,.,. what we have here is Jimmy Carter V2.0

Actually Carter is starting to look better and better.

Here's what bugged me -

1) He claimed that everything is being done to combat the spill. That's not true. The Dutch offered skimmers that could suck up some 20,000 barrels per day, and the administration rejected them IN WRITING. Other countries' offers were similarly rejected.

http://www.fortliberty.org/obama-adm...d-help-with-oil-spill-cleanup.html

Clearly, Obama feels that there is something more immediately important than containing the spill.

2) He said he was going to TELL BP that they would establish a huge escrow fund. He has no authority to do that. He can ask them, he can demand it, but he cannot order them to do anything. Supposedly he's a Constitutional law expert - maybe he needs to brush up on the 5th and 7th amendments, for starters.

3) He claimed that there are no more places to drill in shallow water. That is completely false. It is government policy not to drill in shallow waters. There are plenty of places to drill. Plus 2 trillion barrels' worth in Shale, which he would never allow to be used.

4) He defended the 6 month moratorium, which is basically saying that because 1 well out of thousands upon thousands had an accident in the past 30 years, somehow all of them are about to blow up. His administration has been caught lying about the 'expert panel' that supposedly recommended the moratorium. An entire industry is being gutted on Obama's emotional reaction.

5) He refused to lay out in precise language what his Cap & Trade bill will do. He should have provided a bullet list - it will do the following... No clear targets, no mention of cost. No mention of how killing off the American coal industry will somehow improve our energy independence. No mention of how every family having their energy bills jump by hundreds if not thousands of dollars will improve their situation.

6) And once again, he blamed Bush - it's getting very old. I don't remember GW Bush blaming Clinton for 9/11.

I think he's shot himself in the foot for his credibility. Even MSNBC can't believe how bad the speech was.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid..._dont_sense_executive_command.html
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Okie
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:22 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
2) He said he was going to TELL BP that they would establish a huge escrow fund. He has no authority to do that. He can ask them, he can demand it, but he cannot order them to do anything. Supposedly he's a Constitutional law expert - maybe he needs to brush up on the 5th and 7th amendments, for starters.



Who is he going to put in charge of distributing the funds, Rezko and Blagojevich?

I listened expecting at least a tiny glimmer of leadership, we got less.

Okie
 
ATCtower
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:43 pm

Quoting flynlr (Reply 10):
well that speech pretty much confirmed one thing,.,. what we have here is Jimmy Carter V2.0

Actually, much of the world greatly respects and trusts Jimmy Carter. I do not believe the same can be said for BHO.

What really irritated me about the speech was his choice to have it yesterday and voice what he was "going" to say to the BP execs. It would have held more ground in my book if he spoke after meeting with BP and addressed the aspects he actually had the balls to enforce. Instead the entire speech was "I will", or "I am going to". When push comes to shove, the penalties placed on BP will be nowhere near as strict as were "promised" in last night's campaign speech. To me, that is all it was. Yet another bulk of BS trying to appease Americans without actually doing anything to fix the current problems.

The other aspect I take exception to is his "6 month moratorium" on deep sea drilling. In the history of the US, we have proven we are an oil dependent nation (change coming or not), and generally speaking off shore drilling is very safe. Putting a stop to drilling will only put more American tax payers out of work, thrust them into poverty, and drive oil prices up. Again, this is just another knee jerk reaction to a problem with a solution that will only serve to further the problem.

I can't wait to see his approval rating after this speech. He dropped the ball just as so many Americans have come to expect of the administration when faced with difficulty.

My $.02
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tpa36r
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:48 pm

Is anyone REALLY surprised? For such a severe incident that is into its 58th day.....ruining lives, wildlife, whole fisheries.......our LEADER is just this week meeting with BP officials. Yanno, because date night with ol'chelle and adjusting the girls diet as a family is MUCH more important.

If this white house would stop making myspace ads and posting videos to youtube, we might actually get some work done. Jesus I cant wait til 2013.

 
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casinterest
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:11 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
1) He claimed that everything is being done to combat the spill. That's not true. The Dutch offered skimmers that could suck up some 20,000 barrels per day, and the administration rejected them IN WRITING. Other countries' offers were similarly rejected.

http://www.fortliberty.org/obama-adm...d-help-with-oil-spill-cleanup.html

Clearly, Obama feels that there is something more immediately important than containing the spill.

Can we get over with this tired recycled whining. The US has accepted help and equipment from up to 20 different countries.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2010/06/13/AR2010061304232.html
Yes everyone was slow to act, but everyone though we had a 1000 barrel per day issue instead of the 30,000-60,000 per day problem we have now.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
) He said he was going to TELL BP that they would establish a huge escrow fund. He has no authority to do that. He can ask them, he can demand it, but he cannot order them to do anything. Supposedly he's a Constitutional law expert - maybe he needs to brush up on the 5th and 7th amendments, for starters.

I agree, but the US government controls the leasing of drill sites, so there is at least some weight to throw.

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 14):
The other aspect I take exception to is his "6 month moratorium" on deep sea drilling

Why? We obviously know now that there aren't a lot of good solutions to fixing the problem when crap hits the fan. I think there needs to be time to review whether the saferty plans in place were adequate and BP really screwed the pooch, or if a different tactic other than a blowout preventer needs to be used.

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 14):
What really irritated me about the speech was his choice to have it yesterday and voice what he was "going" to say to the BP execs. It would have held more ground in my book if he spoke after meeting with BP and addressed the aspects he actually had the balls to enforce. Instead the entire speech was "I will", or "I am going to".

This is what was so quizical to me. The whole speech was a waste of time and did not establish any clear policy change.
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seb146
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:29 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
1) He claimed that everything is being done to combat the spill. That's not true. The Dutch offered skimmers that could suck up some 20,000 barrels per day, and the administration rejected them IN WRITING. Other countries' offers were similarly rejected.

From day 1, the right has been critical of the administration. BP told the administration what they thought was going on, so the administration refused foreign assistance. ON THE ADVICE OF BP!!! I know the right just hates when government gets involved in private industry, unless there is a disaster, then the government is to blame.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
2) He said he was going to TELL BP that they would establish a huge escrow fund. He has no authority to do that. He can ask them, he can demand it, but he cannot order them to do anything.

"Tell" and "demand" are two different things. He is going to "tell" BP to establish an escrow fund. So? How is that "ordering" or "demanding" them to do it?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
4) He defended the 6 month moratorium, which is basically saying that because 1 well out of thousands upon thousands had an accident in the past 30 years, somehow all of them are about to blow up.

And, in that six months, all companies can check out their drilling equipment and check out their connections and make sure everything is on the up-and-up so they can make doubly sure nothing like this happens.

All the right is so quick to blame Obama and this administraiton, but who origionally signed the authorization for BP to drill? Where was the oversight on this drill operation?
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Okie
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:39 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 17):
And, in that six months, all companies can check out their drilling equipment and check out their connections and make sure everything is on the up-and-up so they can make doubly sure nothing like this happens.



I am afraid you are incorrect here. In very short order they will be drilling somewhere else. Most equipment is leased on longer term contracts. So you are looking at 2 years minimum 3 years more likely. Either way you are looking at 3-4 years before additional oil from the GOM makes it way to a refinery. That is a massive amount of unemployment for the region.

Obviously Hillary Clinton had it right about the 2 am call in the morning.

Okie
 
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:04 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 2):
This speech should have been completely about how they would fix the current problem and make sure BP paid and found solutions to make sure it never happened again.

Why does everyone think BP is not going to pay? Has the left villified big business to the extent every time something happens that it is some conspiracy cooked up by big business to screw the little guy? BP will pay every claim we don't have to buy into the MSNBC hysteria that BP will declare bankruptcy and try to get out of it's debt.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 6):
I do.. he could have flown over the coast, like some other President did,, he could have made "out of touch" remarks like "heck of a job Brownie"

If he had done that, he would have Dread and Okie's respect. It could have been that easy.

Or he could have asked the president to BP to commit suicide like that Republican from Louisiana..

I hope this post is a joke.

Quoting flynlr (Reply 10):
well that speech pretty much confirmed one thing,.,. what we have here is Jimmy Carter V2.0

I could have told you this long before this speech.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
I think he's shot himself in the foot for his credibility. Even MSNBC can't believe how bad the speech was

That is not saying much, the only thing that would make MSNBC happy is if Obama physically took over BP and seized their assets and having the whole country driving cars and flying planes with windmills strapped to their rear.

Quoting tpa36r (Reply 15):
If this white house would stop making myspace ads and posting videos to youtube, we might actually get some work done. Jesus I cant wait til 2013.

He got elected using smoke and mirrors why are you surprised that he has been using the same tactics?
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sw733
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:18 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 19):
Why does everyone think BP is not going to pay? Has the left villified big business to the extent every time something happens that it is some conspiracy cooked up by big business to screw the little guy?

Sorry, I do not just accept what the media tells me - I have my own brain, thank you very much.

I never said that I thought BP would avoid payment...that being said, I do believe the government needs to make sure they stick to their word in a timely manner. That's simply what I meant.

[Edited 2010-06-16 10:24:11]
 
tpa36r
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:32 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 19):


He got elected using smoke and mirrors why are you surprised that he has been using the same tactics?

He was elected by the overwhelmingly large black turnout. Granted he made it "cool" to vote. Not much smoke and mirrors when in fact he was genius for it.

Regardless he was elected by very uninformed and uneducated about the issues people.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:40 pm

Quoting tpa36r (Reply 21):
He was elected by the overwhelmingly large black turnout. Granted he made it "cool" to vote. Not much smoke and mirrors when in fact he was genius for it.

Regardless he was elected by very uninformed and uneducated about the issues people.

No, he was elected because the GOP couldn't put together a good platform since the previous 8 years has been a wild march into overspending and bad management,. and at the last minute threw in Palin as a running mate to appease the Right wing side of the GOP and thus turning off the moderates.

Quoting tpa36r (Reply 21):
was elected by the overwhelmingly large black turnout. Granted he made it "cool" to vote.

If this is really why he was elected, then the GOP better start coming up with a better plan, as the US becomes more and more diverse everyday, and "White" is not on the increase.
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tpa36r
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:47 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 22):

No, he was elected because the GOP couldn't put together a good platform since the previous 8 years has been a wild march into overspending and bad management,. and at the last minute threw in Palin as a running mate to appease the Right wing side of the GOP and thus turning off the moderates.

Overspending? Where have you been in the last year? If you think Bush overspent, I really feel for ya when you wake up and see Obama's numbers. I will agree though that the GOP didn't have a horse to run, hell they still don't!

Quoting casinterest (Reply 22):

If this is really why he was elected, then the GOP better start coming up with a better plan, as the US becomes more and more diverse everyday, and "White" is not on the increase.

  
 
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casinterest
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:54 pm

Quoting tpa36r (Reply 23):
Overspending? Where have you been in the last year? If you think Bush overspent, I really feel for ya when you wake up and see Obama's numbers.

Bush did overspend, and he cut taxes where he shouldn't have. I know Obama's numbers are going to be bad. But they will be bad until our Government abandons this idea of Free trade and starts slapping around some VAT's on all the imports.
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:32 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 3):
Simply put, we do expect Obama to be tough on a company that has been proven to skip procedures in order to save $$$, but that's also no reason to expect him to go down to the Gulf and plug the hole himself.

Of course the Obama Haters want Obama to plug the hole himself - and hopes he gets stuck down there.

Unfortunately governments are basically dependent on the petroleum engineers from the oil companies to fix this problem. I doubt if we have more than a handful of experienced petroleum engineers in government.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 7):
Our President, like all but a tiny few political leaders out of fear of losing votes, will not push for what is really needed and would work best to reduce oil and other energy consumption - higher taxes on energy products and a major push for conservation.

Higher fuel taxes simply increases inflation rates. Look at how much of what people buy is trucked at least one time, and generally multiple times.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 7):
While there continues to be a push for more efficiency and short term as well as long term would be the quickest to show a beneift, itself it is not enough.

Motivate efficiencies with tax credits - just like we do big business. The more fuel efficient a car you buy the greater the credit. The more inefficient the larger a new tax to cover the credit.  
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 7):
Higher taxes would lower consumption, but with so many having to drive to the jobs they have, the lousy economy and other factors, they cannot afford the extra $10-20 a week for gas higher taxes could mean or the cost of a new high mileage car and in turn losing votes.

Pushing for an inflation maker is never the answer. There needs to be financial motivation to be more efficient and penalties for the gluttons. From light bulbs to cars & trucks.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
The Dutch offered skimmers that could suck up some 20,000 barrels per day, and the administration rejected them IN WRITING. Other countries' offers were similarly rejected.

That wasn't bright, especially after Bush rejected help from other countries, saying that "we will take care of our own". Sure we did.   

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
because 1 well out of thousands upon thousands had an accident in the past 30 years, somehow all of them are about to blow up.

You are assuming that this is the only offshore rig where safety standards were ignored.

The one well let us know all the safety failures we have on the rigs. You really can't be too sure if another one will have a problem next week, but you can be sure that all oil companies have CEOs and engineers working hard to clean up any issues they have and don't want to be made public.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
And once again, he blamed Bush

Actually it was probably Cheney on this one.   

Quoting casinterest (Reply 16):
Yes everyone was slow to act, but everyone though we had a 1000 barrel per day issue instead of the 30,000-60,000 per day problem we have now.


I think BP knew it was more than 1,000 bpd, but tried to minimize the issue, hoping that they could fix it before we discovered the extent of the problem.

Sadly the BP execs seemed to have listened to their lawyers and have only made the problem worse.
 
ATCtower
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:02 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 16):
Why? We obviously know now that there aren't a lot of good solutions to fixing the problem when crap hits the fan. I think there needs to be time to review whether the saferty plans in place were adequate and BP really screwed the pooch, or if a different tactic other than a blowout preventer needs to be used.

The time is there and so are the safety requirements. Putting thousands of oil workers out of a job to essentially do nothing (which I think we know is what Obama is going to do for a long run solution) is NOT the answer. The answer perhaps would require each rig to have an independent inspection by an INDEPENDENT inspector and shut down the rigs that are not in compliance.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 17):
From day 1, the right has been critical of the administration. BP told the administration what they thought was going on, so the administration refused foreign assistance. ON THE ADVICE OF BP!!! I know the right just hates when government gets involved in private industry, unless there is a disaster, then the government is to blame.

As the voice of someone on the right, BP told fallacies and fairy tales about what was going on in the gulf. To this day they still are. I do not think any American with a brain actually believes the spill is only as bad as the reports. BP has changed their story more times than Joran van der Sloot. This loses credibility no matter your political affiliation or socio-economic beliefs.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 19):
Why does everyone think BP is not going to pay? Has the left villified big business to the extent every time something happens that it is some conspiracy cooked up by big business to screw the little guy? BP will pay every claim we don't have to buy into the MSNBC hysteria that BP will declare bankruptcy and try to get out of it's debt.

Because large corporations have a track record (particularly oil companies) of dodging blame at nearly all costs. The Exxon Valdez spill was over 20 years ago and they have not sent one single cent to those ordered judgments. As stated before, I lean a bit to the right and wholeheartedly believe BP will not pay "every dollar" it takes to clean this up. Nor do I believe the BHO administration will force them to. Just today it was released BP is setting up a $20b fund to do so. This only reiterates our beliefs BHO is blowing hot air. This spill will cost far more in clean up costs alone than the "required allotment". If the Obama administration was serious, he would have put his foot down and bent over the BP execs. He obviously didn't and thus, is only blowing steam up our skirts.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 22):
If this is really why he was elected, then the GOP better start coming up with a better plan, as the US becomes more and more diverse everyday, and "White" is not on the increase.

I will keep this one to a minimum as it is far off topic, but he was not elected because he is black. He is no more black than most Klan members. He was elected because of two reasons. One, good ole W screwed many pooches and pissed off the majority of the country, including the GOP. By the end of his tenure, a significant portion of those of us on the right were willing to take a chance at BHO as opposed to another four years of failure we had already suffered eight of. Two, he did convince more young voters to come out and vote (which throughout history the numbers have been lacking). Young voters at the polls not thinking through their vote are only going to side with the person who spouts off the shit they want to hear. BHO did a far better job than JM in this regard. Stating he was elected because he is black is ridiculous and uneducated.

My $.02
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474218
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:06 pm

The man has no clue, it is actually sad to see how incomponent he is.
 
seb146
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:23 pm

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 26):
As the voice of someone on the right, BP told fallacies and fairy tales about what was going on in the gulf. To this day they still are. I do not think any American with a brain actually believes the spill is only as bad as the reports. BP has changed their story more times than Joran van der Sloot. This loses credibility no matter your political affiliation or socio-economic beliefs.

THANK YOU! All those right-wingers that blame Obama for everything need to take a step back and see really where the blame lies: BP. Not Bush. Not Clinton. Not Obama. Not Reagan. Not Carter.

Quoting okie (Reply 18):
I am afraid you are incorrect here. In very short order they will be drilling somewhere else. Most equipment is leased on longer term contracts. So you are looking at 2 years minimum 3 years more likely. Either way you are looking at 3-4 years before additional oil from the GOM makes it way to a refinery. That is a massive amount of unemployment for the region.

So, if another rig explodes due to cutting corners, it will still be who's fault? Yes! The company who set up the rig! Not Obama. Not Clinton. Not Bush. Not Carter. Not Reagan.
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NIKV69
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:34 pm

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 26):
Because large corporations have a track record (particularly oil companies) of dodging blame at nearly all costs. The Exxon Valdez spill was over 20 years ago and they have not sent one single cent to those ordered judgments. As stated before, I lean a bit to the right and wholeheartedly believe BP will not pay "every dollar" it takes to clean this up. Nor do I believe the BHO administration will force them to. Just today it was released BP is setting up a $20b fund to do so. This only reiterates our beliefs BHO is blowing hot air. This spill will cost far more in clean up costs alone than the "required allotment". If the Obama administration was serious, he would have put his foot down and bent over the BP execs. He obviously didn't and thus, is only blowing steam up our skirts.

Provide some sources because the only thing Exxon is appealing is Baker vs Exxon which is going through the courts, they paid 2 Billion to clean up and another 1 Billion to settle other charges to your claim Exxon has paid nothing is not accurate. Please remember you need to back up your claims with sources. As for BP and BHO how much the entire clean up and reimbursement is going to be debated on the 24 hour news cycle but fact is BHO is working with BP to make sure they pay what they owe in a timely manner. Just because Rachel Maddow and Ed Schultz wants congress to pass a law saying the liability should be unlimited doesn't make it gospel, these are two individuals who hate big business and oil so nothing BP does is going to make them happy. These are also two people that think we can survive as an industrialized nation without oil. Not going to happen.
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Ken777
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:55 pm

Quoting tpa36r (Reply 23):
Overspending? Where have you been in the last year? If you think Bush overspent, I really feel for ya when you wake up and see Obama's numbers.

Take out the funds that were spend addressing the Great Recession Bush dumped the country in and Obama is doing a better job than Big George and Little Dick.

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 26):
Because large corporations have a track record (particularly oil companies) of dodging blame at nearly all costs.

Health insurance companies are at the top of the list as they have the most protected markets.

Oil companies (in general) were pretty reputable companies, but a handy target for politicians needing a whipping boy. Unfortunately we've moved into the era of the fast buck and huge compensation packages for the Executive Class. That is, i believe, one of the reasons why BP passed on maintaining their safety standards.

As far as skipping out on this one, BP is in for a start of $20 Billion, with the money administered by an independent company.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:56 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 3):
I seem to recall a certain GOP candidate back in 2008 who had many supporters with the slogan "Drill, baby, drill." Where are they now?

There are lots of people calling for continued drilling. It just has to happen. This cannot become a Chernobyl situation where an accident at a poorly designed facility with no safety culture results in a backlash against a much needed energy source.
 
ATCtower
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:03 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 29):
Provide some sources because the only thing Exxon is appealing is Baker vs Exxon which is going through the courts, they paid 2 Billion to clean up and another 1 Billion to settle other charges to your claim Exxon has paid nothing is not accurate. Please remember you need to back up your claims with sources. As for BP and BHO how much the entire clean up and reimbursement is going to be debated on the 24 hour news cycle but fact is BHO is working with BP to make sure they pay what they owe in a timely manner. Just because Rachel Maddow and Ed Schultz wants congress to pass a law saying the liability should be unlimited doesn't make it gospel, these are two individuals who hate big business and oil so nothing BP does is going to make them happy. These are also two people that think we can survive as an industrialized nation without oil. Not going to happen.

If you read carefully, (and not Wiki), Baker V Exxon is a class action suit, and the meat of the penalty imposed on them. They were not forced by judgment to spend the $2b, they were pressured by a number of sources and volunteered. As for the $1b in claims, this again was not a judgment against them, but a settlement out of court, and on their terms.

Exxon was hit with punitive damages in the form of a judgment (as I was referring to) in the case of Baker V Exxon and has not paid a penny (apart from an estimated $96m in investigative and litigative services). Ordered judgments against massive companies will always end in litigation for many years. With the only ones benefiting the litigators.

I can only say good luck getting your due from BP.

My $.02
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NIKV69
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:11 pm

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 32):
Exxon was hit with punitive damages in the form of a judgment (as I was referring to) in the case of Baker V Exxon and has not paid a penny (apart from an estimated $96m in investigative and litigative services). Ordered judgments against massive companies will always end in litigation for many years. With the only ones benefiting the litigators.

So your saying that they are not entitled to their due process in the courts? You also tried to make it sound like they didn't pay anything. Just because there is an oil spill doesn't mean the company responsible has to start dishing out whatever popular opinion is. Like anything else it's a process. Exxon paid plenty toward their spill and I am sure BP will pay any fair claim when it comes to lost revenue and clean up costs. Just because a company makes a lot of money doesn't make them evil. Sure they will have to answer to the corners they cut when it comes to safety and tons of lawsuits but let them play out somewhat before you condemn them and jump on the MSNBC bandwagon.
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:08 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 31):
There are lots of people calling for continued drilling. It just has to happen. This cannot become a Chernobyl situation where an accident at a poorly designed facility with no safety culture results in a backlash against a much needed energy source.

Consider the Gulf spill strike two on oil. Strike one was the Exxon Valdez. The Gulf spill is worse than the Exxon Valdez spill. Should we wait until strike three where possibly a worse spill might happen, or should we start reducing dependence on oil? Despite finding oil wells every year, Earth is not as big as many think and I expect to see within this century a headline that reads: "Last oil well in the world discovered". Better to start preparing for that now than later when it'll be too late.

It took Soviets (Ukrainians) just one major disaster to reconsider how to handle nuclear plants, and to date, there are still people living with effects from it. How many oil leaks would we need before people understand the risks (and consequences) of drilling for oil, especially at sea?

[Edited 2010-06-16 16:09:58]
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:31 am

Energy production isn't a game. Our standard of living has no strike count. As terrible as these environmental disasters are, they are trivial next to the human toll if we slashed our energy production. A Luddite devolution is not acceptable.

You are uninformed if you expect yourself, your children, or your great grandchildren to read such a headline. The amount of known unconventional oil reserves exceeds all of the oil produced in the last CENTURY by a factor of ~4 or greater. With each year, the unconventional becomes more and more normal. The obvious conclusion is that oil production will continue until an alternative drops in price to become competitive or oil production costs rise to the point that alternatives are cheaper. Really, both will happen."Preparing in advanced" of that day means using coercive measures that will raise energy prices, slow economic and job growth, and lead to a poorer society.

The most near term alternative is natural gas. It is plentiful, cleaner burning than oil, distribution infastructure already exists, and it can be used in transportation.
 
Ken777
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:27 am

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 32):
I can only say good luck getting your due from BP.

BP is already going to put up $20 Billion, which is a fraction of their assets in the US. (Probably why they are moving so fast'   )

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 33):
Sure they will have to answer to the corners they cut when it comes to safety

Exxon didn't "cut safety" - they had a bloody drunk Captain. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that no company is going to KNOWINGLY trust that huge an asset to a drunk or irresponsible person.

The one benefit from that accident was the increase in double hulled tankers.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 34):
Consider the Gulf spill strike two on oil. Strike one was the Exxon Valdez.

Only until winter when people need their heating fuel. Or start to think how much more expensive traveling is when oil prices are high.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 35):
Energy production isn't a game. Our standard of living has no strike count. As terrible as these environmental disasters are, they are trivial next to the human toll if we slashed our energy production.

As I said, wait until Winter.

One thing that we will get out of this spill is a major review by oil companies (in addition to the governments) on the engineering and safety sides. Equipment is going to be double and triple checked, dead batteries replaced and protections increased.

The industry is going to be hit with some turmoil for a while. Some high fliers will be out before too long and, with luck, the industry will return to its better days.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 35):
The most near term alternative is natural gas.

Ain't that the truth. I learned that lesson when traveling to Sydney on business. All the taxis there are combo fuel, with petrol only used as a backup. LPG tanks in all of them and I couldn't tell the difference. Both Ford and GM have the experience gained there and could bring the system to the US pretty fast. All it needs is incentives (tax credits) for distribution and conversions, plus a reasonable tax. Cabs in Perth didn't use the dual system then because the state had jacked up the taxes too much.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:32 am

Just another problem-reaction-solution procedure from the government. The speech was all about the "solution", one that doesn't do anything to fix the problem. Going "green" isn't going to stop this gusher or protect the gulf.
 
tommy767
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:13 am

Quoting okie (Reply 18):
Obviously Hillary Clinton had it right about the 2 am call in the morning.

If only she was president right now instead of BO. She'd make BP clean the mess up REAL FAST -- Boy does she have a mouth on her!

Quoting casinterest (Reply 22):

No, he was elected because the GOP couldn't put together a good platform since the previous 8 years has been a wild march into overspending and bad management,. and at the last minute threw in Palin as a running mate to appease the Right wing side of the GOP and thus turning off the moderates.

They wouldn't have won anyway. Everyone was drinking the Obama cool aid back then and the economy was in the crapper. Wait until 2012. I'll be the republicans have a much more moderate candidate up for office. They won't be so out of touch by then.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
Ken777
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:52 am

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 38):
They wouldn't have won anyway. Everyone was drinking the Obama cool aid back then and the economy was in the crapper. Wait until 2012. I'll be the republicans have a much more moderate candidate up for office. They won't be so out of touch by then.

With an actual depression a real possibility the Conservative/Republicans had pretty well destroyed their reputation as being the "Professionals" for the White House. People were looking to both Clinton and Obama as a real alternative to a Bush III and either one would have been elected.

The Republicans also pushed their chances down even further by selecting McCain (who was too old) and then he picked Sarah Palin (who was too unthinkable being a heartbeat away from the Oval Office).

So 2012? What great changes from the horrors of Bush II (or III) will the Republicans deliver? Maybe they should let the Tea Party take over the RNC because in this century the Republicans have delivered one failure (the Great Recession) after another (Iraq WMD).

As far as being out of touch, they probably know all the employees at the Country Club on a first name basis.         
 
Flighty
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:05 am

It is crazy that the British people think this is about politics vs. Britain. Actually BP is a substantially American company largely owned by ex-Amoco shareholders. It has further invested in the USA since the merger. Who cares if the HQ is in London or Texas; its responsibility is the same. We would beat up on an American oil company just as hard.

Also, shareholders should be mad at the executives for running the company poorly, exposing it to giant financial risk.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:32 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 19):

Why does everyone think BP is not going to pay? Has the left villified big business to the extent every time something happens that it is some conspiracy cooked up by big business to screw the little guy?

Um... BP has tried to cover up at every opportunity, whether trying to toy with Google searches, stifle media reports, plant fake workers, etc.

When Johnson and Johnson had to recall some Tylenol/Motrin products, the CEO immediately went on the news and apologized for having let down the American people. There was no attempt to hide or cover.

It's not big business that's the problem, it's BP.
-Doc Lightning-

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NIKV69
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:36 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 41):
Um... BP has tried to cover up at every opportunity, whether trying to toy with Google searches, stifle media reports, plant fake workers, etc.

Never heard of damage control? Just because they are trying to stem the negative press doesn't mean they are going to run from their debt.
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ATCtower
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:43 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 36):
BP is already going to put up $20 Billion, which is a fraction of their assets in the US.
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 33):
So your saying that they are not entitled to their due process in the courts? You also tried to make it sound like they didn't pay anything. Just because there is an oil spill doesn't mean the company responsible has to start dishing out whatever popular opinion is. Like anything else it's a process. Exxon paid plenty toward their spill and I am sure BP will pay any fair claim when it comes to lost revenue and clean up costs. Just because a company makes a lot of money doesn't make them evil. Sure they will have to answer to the corners they cut when it comes to safety and tons of lawsuits but let them play out somewhat before you condemn them and jump on the MSNBC bandwagon.

I am not saying that per se. When it is cut and dry where the fault lies, litigation should not be able to exceed a criminal statute of limitations. In the case of the Exxon spill, it has. I quite emphatically support big business and do not believe their size dictates intentions. Suggesting I find BP "evil" because of their size is an uneducated reviling comment. My condemnation and vilification of BP has little to do with the fact of "tons of lawsuits" as you suggest, but more their track record thus far, matched with knowledge of the law, and a personal belief they will not flip a 180 and take the moral road on a mere whim.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 39):
As far as being out of touch, they probably know all the employees at the Country Club on a first name basis.

So? Just because you cant afford their country club means they shouldn't be able to attend? I can tell you first hand, there is a lot of business done at a country club.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 42):
Never heard of damage control? Just because they are trying to stem the negative press doesn't mean they are going to run from their debt.

There is a big damn difference between damage control and flat out lying. Just as Doc said, many other large companies have used damage control in much more ethical ways. Lying through your teeth at every opportunity you have to cover up the problem is not the same as coming out and saying "we f'd up, we know it. We hurt people, and this list of things will be done". Again, shame on BP.
By reading the above post you waive all rights to be offended. If you do not like what you read, forget it.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:59 pm

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 26):
The time is there and so are the safety requirements. Putting thousands of oil workers out of a job to essentially do nothing (which I think we know is what Obama is going to do for a long run solution) is NOT the answer. The answer perhaps would require each rig to have an independent inspection by an INDEPENDENT inspector and shut down the rigs that are not in compliance.

Look, The thousands of workers out of a job in the oil industry pails in comparison to the 10's and 100's of thousands that are losing their fising livelihoods and tourism dollars. So yes until we are sure they are doing it right. No new drilling.
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Ken777
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:03 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 41):
Um... BP has tried to cover up at every opportunity, whether trying to toy with Google searches, stifle media reports, plant fake workers, etc.

I think BP let their lawyers run the show, with the PR folks right behind them. If true it's a classic 180 of the Tylenol approach. And it's one that gets the company burned, big time.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 42):
Never heard of damage control? Just because they are trying to stem the negative press doesn't mean they are going to run from their debt.

No, it means that they generate sufficient evidence to really piss off a jury. Within 24 hours they should have known the extent of the problem, including the failed safety equipment and gone balls to the wall - out in the open. Damage control in this situation is classic Engineering Damage Control. Anyone who's been in the Navy (or USCG) will understand what that means.

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 43):
So? Just because you cant afford their country club means they shouldn't be able to attend? I can tell you first hand, there is a lot of business done at a country club.

You missed the sarcasm.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:44 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 36):
As I said, wait until Winter.

Widespread blackouts during the summer months would also cause significant loss of life. Thousands of people were killed during the 2003 European heat wave. Fortunately only a small percentage of U.S. electricity production is from oil, but about 20% is from natural gas.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 36):
Ain't that the truth. I learned that lesson when traveling to Sydney on business. All the taxis there are combo fuel, with petrol only used as a backup. LPG tanks in all of them and I couldn't tell the difference. Both Ford and GM have the experience gained there and could bring the system to the US pretty fast. All it needs is incentives (tax credits) for distribution and conversions, plus a reasonable tax. Cabs in Perth didn't use the dual system then because the state had jacked up the taxes too much.

Conventional automobiles can be offered as a natural gas model with a few hundred dollars in modifications. A hybrid costs a few thousand.
 
ATCtower
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:31 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 44):
Look, The thousands of workers out of a job in the oil industry pails in comparison to the 10's and 100's of thousands that are losing their fising livelihoods and tourism dollars. So yes until we are sure they are doing it right. No new drilling.

So the answer is putting thousands more out of work? Where is the common sense? The likelihood of the same type of accident happening again in the 6 month moratorium is next to nil. I am not a "drill, baby drill" advocate, but this is a classic example of a schools "zero-tolerance" policy and a knee jerk reaction hoping to appease everyone while not helping anyone.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 45):
You missed the sarcasm.

Perhaps it was not gushing like a hole in the ocean?

My $.02
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tommy767
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:44 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 39):
As far as being out of touch, they probably know all the employees at the Country Club on a first name basis.

Democrats have their own "Country Clubs" as well.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
soon7x7
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RE: Comments On Obama's Speech June 16th

Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:03 am

What else do you expect from the leader of the "57" United States of America...an accurate and truthfull response? This alleged president needs to resign before he inflicts even more damage. BP's 20 billion $$?...I wonder how much of that will ever see the stranded fishing, hotel and tourism industry in the south. Half the $$ will end up going to Mexico after 2010 hurricane seasons paints their beaches with oil. Then he will grant amnesty to 20 million illegals in return. This guy has to go!

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