captaink
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Welcome To Lagos..

Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:22 pm

Though I would share this with you guys...

You know the majority of us live good lives with all the necessary comforts, and sometimes we forget that there are lot of people who don't enjoy such things. I don't remember the figure but I am sure I have heard that 1/3 of the earth's population lives in poverty. Maybe it's not such a high number. But I saw this episode on BBC, Welcome to Lagos, and I was truly moved. I mean these guys are quite cheerful taking into consideration their circumstances, I mean at the end of day life is usually what we make it.

Another thing that impressed me was the character of the people in this episode. In some parts of Africa, the people are ruthless, some by choice and others because it is the way they were taught, or the direction life's circumstances has taken them.. But here we see some really hardworking honest people.

Check out when you get a chance guys..

1/6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9BQitPzRiM

2/6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELWcNtq7Csk&feature=related

3/6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_tQ5BZ37M&feature=related

4/6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu0QmQ2EPSM&feature=related

5/6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GahVGgsHvaY&feature=related

6/6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KNXWAZrepQ&feature=related
There is something special about planes....
 
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viaggiare
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:34 am

Quoting captaink (Thread starter):
I saw this episode on BBC, Welcome to Lagos, and I was truly moved. I mean these guys are quite cheerful taking into consideration their circumstances, I mean at the end of day life is usually what we make it.

Indeed. And you know, these people have the good fortune of being poor. Poverty —which is not the same thing as misery— is a superb liberating agent, a providential blow that cuts through the fog of this great consumer society mirage, a natural antidote against these artificial paradises mankind is submerged in.
Entre el fuerte y el débil, la libertad oprime. Sólo la ley libera.
 
tk747
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:48 am

The BBC has such great documentaries. Thanks for posting this, i''ve heard from friends that Lagos is a real hell hole. I would like to see for myself though.
 
sw733
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:19 pm

Quoting tk747 (Reply 2):
i''ve heard from friends that Lagos is a real hell hole. I would like to see for myself though.

hell hole is an understatement, man. I've been there...I recommend just viewing it in picture.
 
captaink
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:54 pm

Yeh, the BBC does some really interesting documentaries. Very impressed. I still would like to brave Lagos myself.. 
There is something special about planes....
 
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viaggiare
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:00 pm

Quoting captaink (Thread starter):
Another thing that impressed me was the character of the people

Perhaps it has something to do with these being God-fearing people; some of them born again.  

[Edited 2010-06-19 10:03:47]
Entre el fuerte y el débil, la libertad oprime. Sólo la ley libera.
 
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OA260
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:20 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 3):
hell hole is an understatement, man. I've been there...I recommend just viewing it in picture.

LOL... One place I have no desire to go to even a Nigerian friend at work says its a hell hole and she would never go back .
 
LatinPlane
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:34 pm

Thanks Captaink! That was a great documentary.

It is also interesting to note what is being done to change the look of Lagos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC5ONrDnDR4&feature=related
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
captaink
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:50 pm

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 7):
Thanks Captaink! That was a great documentary.

It is also interesting to note what is being done to change the look of Lagos.

What a city.. HAHA

These Mega Cities in the world do pose some interesting challenges. I am also quite intrigued by Mexico City. Would hate to be the governor there.
There is something special about planes....
 
LatinPlane
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:09 pm

Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
BR076
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:19 pm

Quoting tk747 (Reply 2):
The BBC has such great documentaries.

Indeed , I remember one I saw recently , Blood, Sweat and Take aways , it was about some spoiled British teens who had to work in the third world food industry and they had to live on the money they earned with that job. I think they all changed after that experience.
ú
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:21 pm

Why Is Lagos such a hell hole when Nigeria is a country full of natural resources, oil and others?

Many of our so-called "First World" Western countries do not posess any such natural resources and we are comparatively well off looking at these African countries that are full of oil such as Gabon or Nigeria.

They make way too many children, their population is way too high, the regimes have dubious dictators full of money and bankers dealing with dubious practices with villas on Swiss Lakes and Swiss bank accounte while their people are living in poverty. I'd say bring down these dictators!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:30 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
Why Is Lagos such a hell hole when Nigeria is a country full of natural resources, oil and others?

Because there are no systems in place to keep a very small, elite minority from completely exploiting a very large poor majority.

There are no unions, there are no OHSA rules, there are no benefits from working. There is no public education. If you watched the documentary in the OP (which I highly recommend) you can see how kids as young as 11-12 (no way that young boy was 15) are working.

At this point, the model is similar to medieval Europe in which a series of land owners (Lords) possess essentially all the wealth and exploit the working class (serfs) to uphold their wealth.

However, it appears that Nigeria has promise. As Lagos modernizes and western technologies begin to infiltrate, I think that the people are going to start to pull together. If they can avoid any unfortunate totalitarian revolutions, Nigeria could seriously industrialize much as Brazil is right now. Brazil used to be a backwater third-world country, also. And yet bit by bit, they are pulling themselves up by the bootstraps. They've got a way to go before they become a truly first world country, but they're getting there. I do hope Nigeria is next.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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airtran737
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:30 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
Why Is Lagos such a hell hole when Nigeria is a country full of natural resources, oil and others?



Because corrupt crooks control those resources.

I was in Lagos two nights ago and then had crew rest in Abuja. The difference between the two is like night and day. LOS is a complete shithole and the place where dreams go to die. The only places that I can think of that are worse are FIH and NDJ
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:37 pm

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 13):
Because corrupt crooks control those resources.

Why don't people revolt and bring down these dictators and crooks and dubious bankers?
What are they waiting for?

Another point - why all thes children? Why do they keep multiplying at such high rates?
Also religious fanaticism - I guess it has a big part to play in what's happening to the country.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
luckyone
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:49 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
Why don't people revolt and bring down these dictators and crooks and dubious bankers?
What are they waiting for?

Another point - why all thes children? Why do they keep multiplying at such high rates?
Also religious fanaticism - I guess it has a big part to play in what's happening to the country.

Good questions!
The first part of your question is probably pretty simple to answer: Nigeria has never had a political system that was designed in the people's interest (theoretically at least). Speaking out, freedom of speech, organizing are foreign concepts to a great deal of the world, it just might not occur to them to do so in the manner we might.
Secondly, Nigeria is ethnically heterogenous. There are three big groups, and (to quote Deborah Morgan) "a metric f*ckton" of smaller ones, very similar to most of African nations. They don't have the best history working together, and a brief glance at Nigerian history tells me that the regimes du jour have been able to play the groups against each other to sustain power. It certainly does NOT help that the three groups do not share a religion.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:34 am

Quoting tk747 (Reply 2):

The BBC has such great documentaries

I've always had a great respect for the BBC, but why the subtitles on what is perfectly understandable, if heavily accented English? It's no more accented than say, Indian English, so why the condescending subtitles?

Quoting sw733 (Reply 3):
I recommend just viewing it in picture

I've always considered Lagos (and Nigeria) to be one of the most dangerous countries to visit, but having watched those videos I'd really love to go . . . how safe/unsafe is it exacty?

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
Another point - why all thes children? Why do they keep multiplying at such high rates?

I'd suggest three reasons: lack or unaffordability of birth control, a hot sweaty environment and a population in very close proximity to each other . . .
 
petertenthije
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:29 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 16):
It's no more accented than say, Indian English, so why the condescending subtitles?

Probably for two reasons, 1) somone might still not follow them and 2) to make the show exportable to countries where English is only a second (third) language.

FWIW, the same happens here on Dutch television. When someone from Belgian speaks, or someone with a heavy accent, then often there are subtitles.
Attamottamotta!
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:40 am

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 17):
Probably for two reasons, 1) somone might still not follow them and 2) to make the show exportable to countries where English is only a second (third) language.

But do they do this for documentaries with people from say, Russia, China or South Africa? Affrikaner English, for example, can be impenetrable at times. And not to be discriminatory, if ANY NATIVE ENGLISH speakers needed subtitles they would be the East and West Belfast ones, and in our case the Kerry accent. Even I can't understand them when they speak quickly . . . and they do!
 
petertenthije
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:01 am

Attamottamotta!
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:05 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 16):
I've always had a great respect for the BBC, but why the subtitles on what is perfectly understandable, if heavily accented English? It's no more accented than say, Indian English, so why the condescending subtitles?

Perhaps because it's perfectly understandable for you while not everyone has English as their native tongue?
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:08 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 20):
Perhaps because it's perfectly understandable for you while not everyone has English as their native tongue?

Fair point, But shouldn't they do this for documentaries in all countries where English is not the first language?
 
us330
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:21 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
Why Is Lagos such a hell hole when Nigeria is a country full of natural resources, oil and others?

Ever heard of the natural resource curse?

You could ask this same question of many African countries--in fact, dare I say that Lagos isn't as bad as it could possibly be, especially when you consider that the world's most lethal, and some say most brutal, war since WWII has been occuring in a place that is basically a giant treasure chest of natural resources--the DRC.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
Many of our so-called "First World" Western countries do not posess any such natural resources and we are comparatively well off looking at these African countries that are full of oil such as Gabon or Nigeria

That's because many western countries have evolved from the time when they exclusively relied on their own natural resources into countries with diversified economies. Much of Africa is still solely reliant on their natural resources, which exposes them to the ups and downs of the free market, and haven't had the chance to diversify--mainly because in order to diversify their economies, they typically need a certain measure of political stability--something that Africa has generally lacked post WWII.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
Why don't people revolt and bring down these dictators and crooks and dubious bankers?
What are they waiting for?

Well, they sometimes do--the problem is that you typically need money to organize a cohesive protest movement, and the people who tend to have most of the money in those countries are the current beneficiaries of the system--and are thus not likely to overthrow their friends and colleagues unless they believe that they can gain from such a risky action.

Protesting a government or attempting a coup is somewhat of a luxury, if you think about it. You aren't going to spend your time and resources devoted to such an activity unless either your family is fed and comparatively healthy or you don't have a family and have nothing to lose. Many of the nationalist revolutionary movements of the 20th century weren't organized by people from the lower classes--they were typically organized and led by individuals with a middle-class background, whose families could afford to provide them at least some schooling.
 
sw733
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:00 pm

Quoting captaink (Reply 8):
These Mega Cities in the world do pose some interesting challenges. I am also quite intrigued by Mexico City. Would hate to be the governor there.

Lagos makes Mexico City look like Tokyo or London...

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 16):
how safe/unsafe is it exacty?

I didn't necessarily feel terribly unsafe there, just a little...and I am as white as can be (despite being an African by nationality). It's more just...bloody awful. Dirty, crowded, dirty, smelly, dirty, corrupt, dirty...
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:19 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
Why Is Lagos such a hell hole when Nigeria is a country full of natural resources, oil and others?

The same reason many other African nations have yet to prosper. Full of resources but rampant corruption keeps the $$$ in the hands of a small elite. No regulations as to wages and living conditions and a political system unable and/or unwilling to respond to the demands of the people.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
Why don't people revolt and bring down these dictators and crooks and dubious bankers?
What are they waiting for?

Ask North Koreans, Cubans, Syrians, Iranians, and many others that live under dictatorial rule and will not oppose the leader for fear of their lives. When a government gets friendly with the armed forces or a volunteer group of armed people, it gets difficult to protest knowing that your every move is being watched and will be used to throw you in jail or execute you.

The elite is a powerful thing and they will stop at nothing to protect their interests, even if it means coercing the government to crush any revolution. By promising the army better living conditions, they can easily have the army under their command. The tide will turn whenever the army realizes that it is being played with and take matters into its own hands.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:40 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
Why don't people revolt and bring down these dictators and crooks and dubious bankers?
What are they waiting for?

Another point - why all thes children? Why do they keep multiplying at such high rates?

Madame, for a lady of your life experience, these are awfully naive questions.

When you are dirt poor and all your energies are expended in trying to survive, when you have no access to education, when the entire police and military system exist to keep the government in place, how on earth would you even start to organize a revolt? It takes someone in very special circumstances to stand up and start something and get others to follow them.

Why all the children? Again, you're dirt poor, you don't have access to birth control, the society dictates that a man has his rights to his woman, and your children can go out and work to bring home more money. It's the norm to have many children. Who is going to go against this and how are they going to go about doing so?

It's not just as easy as "why don't they do something?".
But that was when I ruled the world
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:45 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):

Why don't people revolt and bring down these dictators and crooks and dubious bankers?
What are they waiting for?

For the same reason they don't in Iran. Not for lack of wanting.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Delboy
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:04 pm

There is a lot of BS in this thread primarily, and this is only my guess, from people who have never been to Lagos, let alone Africa.

Lagos is the arsehole of Africa. Corruption is rife and it starts as soon as you enter the country at the airport. Everyone holds out a hand expecting 'dash' money, god help you if you don't give it. Children are maimed to give them the profession of a beggar, shocking. For downright corruption, Goverment officials are the worst of the lot. They are not interested in the welfare of their citizens, they are not interested in their own country. All they want is something for them and they will procure inferior goods and services just so long as they get their share of dash. I have seen it with my own eyes and if I never go back to Lagos ever again, it will be too soon.
 
captaink
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:57 am

Quoting sw733 (Reply 23):
Lagos makes Mexico City look like Tokyo or London...

Ah no doubt, I wasn comparing in anyway. Mexico City is a pretty cool city, that I love visiting from time to time, it is just HUGE, and a bit crazy, so being the mayor there must be a headache. Being the mayor of Lagos must drive one to suicide. LOL
There is something special about planes....
 
us330
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:21 am

Quoting Delboy (Reply 27):
For downright corruption, Goverment officials are the worst of the lot

I read in some book--I believe it was William Easterly's "The White Man's Burden"--that only 1 out of every 10 or 12 aid dollars sent to Nigeria actually reaches its intended target--the rest is siphoned off by various officials
 
sw733
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RE: Welcome To Lagos..

Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:41 pm

Quoting captaink (Reply 28):
Mexico City is a pretty cool city

I agree, I really enjoy MEX!

Quoting captaink (Reply 28):
Being the mayor of Lagos must drive one to suicide

I doubt he does anything but sit back and take some kickbacks...

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