mirrodie
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Soccer/Football, Politics And Crime......

Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:00 am

So back in 94, I remember that Columbian player got shot after an OWN GOAL in his net vs. USA.

Then last night ESPN runs a documentary about it. Of course, I really did hear much in terms of details about it back then. So I was shocked to a degree learning about the background to the story.

I highly recommend TWO ESCOBARS.
Then espn puts out a story about an accusation of Italy buying the cup:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-c...aying-italy-buy-win?cc=5901&ver=us

Now, we all know Italy would NEVER do that, right? But in all seriousness, does it peeve anyone else hearing about these types of stories and how they relate to a sport?

That Columbia story, while I knew of the incident, really pissed me off. I'd love to see Columbia back in action on the World stage.


I love most sports. I love the action. But boy do I get pissed when politics and crime lead to people throwing games?
Lies, betrayal, backstabbing. While some here might enjoy the drama, I find it so self-defeating. Its ruthless and done most times with a smile on a face.

At the end of the day, its just about the fans and the game....and $$$, dont get me wrong. But let it be clean money thats earned!
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futurepilot16
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RE: Soccer/Football, Politics And Crime......

Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:07 am

That was an excellent documentary. Very Moving, and I really got a lot out of it. I recommend anyone who enjoys the beautiful game to watch it.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
bhill
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RE: Soccer/Football, Politics And Crime......

Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:30 pm

Yep, an amazing production. What shocked me the most was the drug money flowing into the Columbian Football Federation (laundering) and everybody knew about it, but turned a blind eye...
Carpe Pices
 
Delboy
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RE: Soccer/Football, Politics And Crime......

Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:01 pm

Blimey, saw the thread title and I thought it was all about John Terry and his dodgy family.
 
mirrodie
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RE: Soccer/Football, Politics And Crime......

Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:00 pm

Whats the deal with John Terry and his family? More lies betrayal and backstabbing?

Sounds like more of the same crap when it should be about the sport.
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eicvd
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RE: Soccer/Football, Politics And Crime......

Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:58 pm

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 4):
Whats the deal with John Terry and his family? More lies betrayal and backstabbing?

Shop lifting & drug dealing, thats the deal with John Terry's family.
COYBIB
 
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LTU932
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RE: Soccer/Football, Politics And Crime......

Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:41 pm

Quoting mirrodie (Thread starter):
That Columbia story, while I knew of the incident, really pissed me off. I'd love to see Columbia back in action on the World stage.

Don't know of any Columbia story, but if you mean Colombia, I remember back in the day hearing about the Escobar murder on TV. Back then I thought that he was related to Pablo Escobar, hence why he was murdered as well.

On the sports side of things, the problem with Colombia this time around was, among many issues, the manager that they had. When they hired the new manager, it was already too late to undo the damage done under Pinto.
 
Acheron
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RE: Soccer/Football, Politics And Crime......

Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:56 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 6):
On the sports side of things, the problem with Colombia this time around was, among many issues, the manager that they had. When they hired the new manager, it was already too late to undo the damage done under Pinto.

That, and I think you have to note that the level inside Conmebol has been increasing. Now is not just Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Uruguay, but you also have to take care of Ecuador and even Venezuela. Things are not getting easier.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Soccer/Football, Politics And Crime......

Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:09 pm

Quoting Acheron (Reply 7):
That, and I think you have to note that the level inside Conmebol has been increasing. Now is not just Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Uruguay, but you also have to take care of Ecuador and even Venezuela.

Don't forget how Chile changed from the embarassment they were in the latter days of Nelson Acosta as manager, to a serious contender for minimum quarterfinales under Marcelo Bielsa. But there are also teams that are just FUBAR (for lack of a better word). Those teams are currently Peru and Bolivia.
 
mirrodie
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RE: Soccer/Football, Politics And Crime......

Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:30 am

Quoting eicvd (Reply 5):
thats the deal with John Terry's family.

What team do they represent?

As far as politics goes, I've been enjoying watching Argentina's run this year. Did a bit of reading up to see that Maradona is a huge Chavez supporter. I didnt expect to read about that and quite frankly, I don't feel his politics have a place in the sport.


With the stories above, one wonders if sports have become any cleaner.
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Alias1024
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RE: Soccer/Football, Politics And Crime......

Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:38 am

I recorded the documentary on my DVR and finally got to watch it a couple of days ago. What an exceptional piece of documentary filmmaking. If you haven't seen it, find a way to do so.

I was skeptical of the 30 for 30 series at first, but I was sold after watching just a couple. They really have all been very good. I also really liked "The U" and "Winning Time: Reggie Miller vs. the New York Knicks".
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MillwallSean
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RE: Soccer/Football, Politics And Crime......

Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:01 pm

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 9):
As far as politics goes, I've been enjoying watching Argentina's run this year. Did a bit of reading up to see that Maradona is a huge Chavez supporter. I didnt expect to read about that and quite frankly, I don't feel his politics have a place in the sport.

I guess you haven't been following football for that long?
Or even have much understanding about what the sport grow out of and how it became the worlds biggest and most watched game.
This was a working class sport. Poor kids played football, rich kids played rugby etc etc.

In Europe and alot of South America football is a mirror of society. society consists of many political beliefs. the poorer a country's population is the more extreme these political beliefs usually are.

Its different in the US, there politics is rightwing(republicans) or right of centre/centre (democrats).
In Europe and South America things are very very different.
There you have rightwing, liberal (most often on the righthand side of politics) centrists, socialists and leftwingers. These are mainstream beliefs and choices.
To simplify it; the poorer you are, the more to the left you tend to vote. (This is a huge generalisation but...)
That Maradona a man that grew up very poor would be sympathetic to a man like Chavez (extreme leftwinger) is thus no huge surprise. That he idolises fellow countryman Che Guevara and his old comrade in arms Fidel seems almost natural.
Besides and Fidel must have very very high approval figures among players and ultras in general. Politics and football have always walked hand in hand.

Now Maradona is hardly alone in having outspoken political beliefs.
Thierry Henry sporting his Che shirts, Xavier Zanetti fellow Argentinian and captain of Inter organising campaigns to assist the Zapatistas in Mexico etc etc.
In England legendary managers like Clough, Ferguson and Shankly have all been outspoken labour men.
Scholes, The " red Nevilles", Stevie G, Ferdinand etc are all firmly from the left side of politics and outspoken about it.

On the other side, stars like P. Di Canio an Italian fascist, S Mihailovic a rightwing serbian player.

Football is the peoples game and as such I find it refreshing when footballers have real life views. I might not share their views but I prefer men like Di Canio and Maradona to PR educated and controlled stars any day.

What I suggest is further reading about football and politics. You can see that most clubs have a clear political background. Most being labourclubs. but you can also see that clubs have supporters with very strong political beliefs.
Lazio and its ultras being a re-knowned right wing club for example. Glasgow Celtic being leftwing.
Real Madrid right / FC Barcelona left. Paris SG right, OM left.
the list goes on, its also rather interesting to read about special clubs where politics is at the heart of the identity.
FC St Pauli from Germany is such a club. Google them, youtube them.

Lazio / Hellas Verona contra Livorno or Atalanta in Italy. Different sides to the Italian footballing and supporting map. Listen to their songs see their tifos and understand what the clubs souls are like.
Its educating.
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mirrodie
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RE: Soccer/Football, Politics And Crime......

Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:37 pm

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 11):
I guess you haven't been following football for that long?
Or even have much understanding about what the sport grow out of

See, thats the thing. I follow the games but the background politics never really hit the mainstream here in the US...and if they do, its far overshadowed by nonsense such as who A-rod is dating this week.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 11):
(This is a huge generalisation but...)
That Maradona a man that grew up very poor would be sympathetic to a man like Chavez (extreme leftwinger) is thus no huge surprise. That he idolises fellow countryman Che Guevara and his old comrade in arms Fidel seems almost natural.

I agree its a bit of a generalization since I know plenty of Argentine and Columbine's who don't subscribe to that. But that is from my skewed perspective from a limited sample.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 11):
Politics and football have always walked hand in hand.

As I am seeing. That Two Escobars movie just really brought it to the forefront though, I think for Americans, at least.
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