RussianJet
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:52 pm

Watched the whole of the England vs. Germany game.

Overall, Germany played better. However, Lampard's goal was so blatantly a legitimate goal, about a yard over the line of the goal mouth, and was disallowed at a crucial moment.

We can never know what effect that levelling of the score to 2-2 would have had going into the second half, but there was no way this can be considered fair. There has to be a better way.

Two questions:

1) Should goal line technology be introduced to resolve such disputes? (No brainer in my opinion)

2) In circumstances like today, where EVERYONE knew that the goal Lampard scored was legitimate, should Germany have done the decent thing and let England score?

I'm not saying we would have one, and like I said, overall the German performance was better, but we will never now know - and all because of one unbelievably poor decision by the linesman and the ref.
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Rj111
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Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:56 pm

1) Yes

2) No

filler
 
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AirPacific747
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Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:56 pm

1) Yes

2) Yes

I wish we could see the consequences of 2-2 in a parallel world.
 
DunaA320
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:57 pm

As a true English fan, I agree the Germans played better, they were all over us. However, the goal, it was 100% over that line, no question asked. If that had gone in, Im not sure how the team spirit would have been, perhaps improved, we shall never know, but it definatly cast a huge shadow on a brilliant game of football.

The referee/linesmen have some serious questions to answer for. It seems crazy in this day and age a person with such responsibility can make such a bad mistake/judgement.
 
MD-90
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:01 pm

I'm guessing there isn't any sort of instant replay option for the refs/linewhatevers to look at in WC games?
 
JMA777
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:03 pm

1) Yes - if the likes of cricket and tennis can adopt such technology to help call the decisions where human fallibility is present, then surely the richest sport in the world can too.

Although, in my opinion, the German goal keeper was the most worthy of blame. He knew full well that a goal had been scored, yet threw the ball back out into play. Not very sportsman like at all, a disgrace to most - even the few German fans I spoke to.

2) It certainly looked like they were trying to let us score in the opening 10 minutes of the second half, but we just couldn't find the back of the net. If they had let us score, I doubt it would have made much difference as we could have easily conceded 7 or so German goals.
Josh
 
RussianJet
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:07 pm

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 1):
2) No

Why not?

As pointed out, the goalie KNEW, like everyone else there did, that it was a goal. A good goal too. To pretend like it never was and just carry on is, simply, cheating. Pure and simple.
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Rj111
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Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:13 pm

Opponents shouldn't be responsible for poor refereeing.

It would have been nice but there shouldn't be an obligation.
 
GDB
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:14 pm

You were indeed robbed.
By a team, that for all the pretensions, all the hype, drew with the well known footballing superpower the USA, could not even score against that other mighty footballing nation Algeria, did put one goal past Solevia, a nation of 2 million which did not even exist 20 years ago.

That had dissent in the ranks, an aging team of the so called 'Golden Generation', a generation so 'golden' they have that great track record in World Cup and Euro tournaments, oh wait, their record is a load of shite isn't it?
'We did well in the qualifiers' the great mass of the deluded say, fine, not much point in that if you cannot hack the real deal, as in WC 2006, as in Euro 2008 - oh hang on, weren't there for that were they?

It's like a self proclaimed elite military unit that does well in training exercises but falls apart, or freezes up, when the real war begins.

'We woz robbed', as the biggest hypers of them all, the super soar-away Sun will say, god I am sick of passing a newsstand with that potato headed in-bred Rooney staring out, who scored how many in this WC?

I know, lets blame the manager, bloody foreigner!
That's the third manager in four years this most overrated team has had.

Face it, English football is in a mess, not just the national team, but there is another looming issue, put it this way, if Pompey's troubles were the Premier Leagues Northern Rock , then Man U might well become the RBS , or Lehman Brothers , courtesy of those it's owners.

I know I'm being harsh, but you have to look at the whole performance over this WC, did they really look like they could ever beat Germany, never mind an alternate history of one allowed goal, you are right, Germany was better, way better, the idea that 2-2 would have spurred England on but not Germany, is not very fair, is it?

Look on the bright side though, they were better than France.
Or that it did not go to penalties.

[Edited 2010-06-27 16:18:42]
 
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airportugal310
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:15 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):
As pointed out, the goalie KNEW, like everyone else there did, that it was a goal. A good goal too. To pretend like it never was and just carry on is, simply, cheating. Pure and simple.

And? They are there to win a World Cup, not call the shots on the field.

The onus of responsibility to call the goal was on the officials, not the goalie. Pure and simple.
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Dano1977
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:18 pm

What an absolute disgrace!

I don't think the disallowed goal would have made much difference, the German side could have easily been up 5-0 in the first half.

Post Mortem.

1. The English defence was too easily taken apart. Caught out of position so many times. Many supporters in England think that John Terry is a world class center back, i disagree. He has the speed of snail his positional awareness is shocking. Infact the German coach said and i quote:

"Our objective was to set Terry up with Klose to force him to come out of the defence. We knew the full-backs would be very much to the side, and that would create space that we could penetrate. We could have been 3-0 up in the first half because we did penetrate them".


hows how opinions vary. England see Terry as one of the best defenders in the world; the Germans think he's so poor that they made targeting him the focus of their game-plan. And they were right.


2. We need a coach who is afraid to drop the "big names", if they are not performing, drop them. I think IMHO that the england coaching staff need to employ the same team selection as Herb Brooks (1980 Winter Olympics USA Hockey coach who took a bunch of college kids to win the gold medal)

and i quote Herb Brooks

"I'm not looking for the best players Craig, I'm looking for the right ones"

Food for thought. Pick the system you think will work, then pick the players to fit in that.
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NIKV69
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:20 pm

Should Armando Galarraga be give his perfect game? England got spanked and no goal cam would have changed this.
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RussianJet
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:30 pm

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 9):
And? They are there to win a World Cup, not call the shots on the field.

The onus of responsibility to call the goal was on the officials, not the goalie. Pure and simple.

Oh sure, let's just throw the whole concept of good sportsmanship out and sod everyone else. Ever heard of fair play? Yes, the responsibility lies with the ofiicials, but when the mistake is so blatant, and the rules in terms of reversing decisions so stupid, others who can do something about it should do so. Do I want my team to win at all costs of by cheating? Hell no. I want them to win fair and square.

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 10):
I don't think the disallowed goal would have made much difference, the German side could have easily been up 5-0 in the first half.

Quite possibly, but unfortunately we are now only left with this speculation. There have been many games when the weaker side have still won, and done so honestly, and in any case you can never underestimate the boost that a goal like that at such a crucial time can give to a team and give them the confidence to make them go the extra mile. On the other hand, having a totally legitimate goal disallowed has the opposite effect - demoralisation.

Quoting GDB (Reply 8):
I know, lets blame the manager, bloody foreigner!

Better idea - let's blame those who made this utterly ridiculous decisions.

Whatever your opinion, whoever you think played best, it WAS a goal - and we will never know what impact that goal would have had on the rest of the match.
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us330
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:32 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
1) Should goal line technology be introduced to resolve such disputes? (No brainer in my opinion)

No, because in tennis and in cricket, the ball is so comparatively small that it doesn't matter where you place the chip on the ball. The problem in soccer is that the ball is so big and all of it must cross the goalline for the goal to count--which means that the part of the ball with the chip could be over the line, but it could still not technically be a goal.

That said, my alternative proposal (instead of the goalline technology) is to institute something like the National Hockey League does--something that would not disrupt the flow of the game unless the call needed to be changed. FIFA should install cameras along the goalline, and have one "replay official" sitting in the stadium somewhere--and only review whether or not the ball fully crossed the line.

If the replay official finds that the ball indeed fully crossed the line, than he can contact the 4th official sitting by the bench, who can then rush on to the field to stop play, and have the clock reset to the time it was when the ball crossed the line, and give the other team the kickoff.

That way, the game is only stopped unless it is absolutely necessary--and wouldn't occur every single game.
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larshjort
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:37 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
2) In circumstances like today, where EVERYONE knew that the goal Lampard scored was legitimate, should Germany have done the decent thing and let England score?

Like France let Ireland score during the qual after Henry scored using his hand?
Referee mistakes is part of the game and it's been like that since referees were introduced.

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Dano1977
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:39 pm

Quoting us330 (Reply 13):

There is one problem...

The majority of players and managers are calling for goal line technology, but there is only 1 person who objects to it and thats Sepp Blatter the FIFA president.

Football or Soccer is a $billion industry, it needs to evolve with the times. The technology is available, it just needs somebody with the big kahunas to go against FIFA.
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RussianJet
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:39 pm

Quoting us330 (Reply 13):
No, because in tennis and in cricket, the ball is so comparatively small that it doesn't matter where you place the chip on the ball. The problem in soccer is that the ball is so big and all of it must cross the goalline for the goal to count--which means that the part of the ball with the chip could be over the line, but it could still not technically be a goal.

As you describe with hockey, cameras would be fine, We already have the bloody things but the referee is not allowed to look at the footage at the time. Absurd. It would at least in cases like this, where the ball didn't hit any white paint but was a good yard or so behind the goal line.
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DunaA320
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:41 pm

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 15):
Football or Soccer is a $billion industry, it needs to evolve with the times. The technology is available, it just needs somebody with the big kahunas to go against FIFA.

Well said!
 
RussianJet
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:46 pm

And this is all in addition to the fact that Argentina had a totally illegitimate goal allowed against Mexico this evening, outrageously offside. Grr.
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RayChuang
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:57 pm

Quoting us330 (Reply 13):
The problem in soccer is that the ball is so big and all of it must cross the goalline for the goal to count--which means that the part of the ball with the chip could be over the line, but it could still not technically be a goal.

I remember reading about Adidas studying the idea of a soccer ball with an RFID transmitter literally right at the center of the ball--as such, this means VERY precise geolocation tracking of the ball itself. That means we can easily track the ball for things like whether the ball went over the goal line or even if there was an intentional handball.
 
KPDX
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:03 am

FIFA officials were correct about this call. Evidenced here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDWmpvq2XZw


  
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vikkyvik
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:26 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):
To pretend like it never was and just carry on is, simply, cheating. Pure and simple.
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 12):
Do I want my team to win at all costs of by cheating?

Except that Germany didn't cheat.

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 7):
Opponents shouldn't be responsible for poor refereeing.

It would have been nice but there shouldn't be an obligation.

  

Sportsmanship is playing the damn game, despite bad calls and whatever other setbacks occur.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 12):
Whatever your opinion, whoever you think played best, it WAS a goal - and we will never know what impact that goal would have had on the rest of the match.

Exactly. So there's no point in saying Germany cheated, or complaining till you're blue in the face about how the score should have been tied. For all we know, maybe England's goal would have sparked Germany, and they would have won 4-2 or something.

Quoting us330 (Reply 13):
If the replay official finds that the ball indeed fully crossed the line, than he can contact the 4th official sitting by the bench, who can then rush on to the field to stop play, and have the clock reset to the time it was when the ball crossed the line, and give the other team the kickoff.

The only problem with this is the following (albeit unlikely) situation:

If, during the time between the bad call and when play is stopped, the other team manages to score a goal, there will be HUGE arguments about setting the clock back and removing that goal.
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AutothrustBlue
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:39 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):
As pointed out, the goalie KNEW, like everyone else there did, that it was a goal. A good goal too. To pretend like it never was and just carry on is, simply, cheating. Pure and simple.

Neuer could have done all the convincing in the world, but who knows if the referee will even accept/believe it. IIRC, after France scored off of Henry's handball, Henry told the ref that he had handled, but the ref would not disallow the goal. Methinks referees are not inclined to believe the players' word.
 
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airportugal310
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:47 am

Quoting AutothrustBlue (Reply 22):
Methinks referees are not inclined to believe the players' word.

As a former referee, this is a valid point.

Doing so can invariably lead to perceived favoritism (regardless of intent), which will ignite fires so bad even the best PR teams in the world could not overcome.
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futurepilot16
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:12 am

Quoting JMA777 (Reply 5):
Although, in my opinion, the German goal keeper was the most worthy of blame. He knew full well that a goal had been scored, yet threw the ball back out into play. Not very sportsman like at all, a disgrace to most - even the few German fans I spoke to.

Oh please. How is he supposed to know when his back was turned to the goal? Even if he did know, how is it unsportsmanlike to pretend that it wasn't a goal? I thought the objective here was to win the game? it's pathetic to even consider blaming the German goalie for what happened. The line judge missed the call, and the biggest point of the day, you can't blame FIFA when the terrible defense of the English defenders allowed four goals, including terrible goalkeeping as well.

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
) In circumstances like today, where EVERYONE knew that the goal Lampard scored was legitimate, should Germany have done the decent thing and let England score?

Absolutely not. You're trying to win a game, not be sportsmanlike. If Germany had given England a freeby, i'd denounce and reject soccer forever.

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 15):
Football or Soccer is a $billion industry, it needs to evolve with the times. The technology is available, it just needs somebody with the big kahunas to go against FIFA.

I agree. These guys wait their entire lives to play in a world cup. From the moment they're old enough to stand on two feet and walk, they've been kicking a soccer ball. To have a glorious moment such as world cup goal stolen from you by a missed call by a ref is heart wrenching. FIFA needs to get this done.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):

As pointed out, the goalie KNEW, like everyone else there did, that it was a goal. A good goal too. To pretend like it never was and just carry on is, simply, cheating. Pure and simple.

You can't be serious. Do you know anything about sports? Let me inform you. The objective is to win, despite bad calls. If you believe that if I score a goal, and I knew that I was offside, that I should run to the ref and tell him to disallow the goal, all in the name of sportsmanship, then maybe sports isn't your thing man.
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MrChips
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:23 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):
Why not?

As pointed out, the goalie KNEW, like everyone else there did, that it was a goal. A good goal too. To pretend like it never was and just carry on is, simply, cheating. Pure and simple.

Because a team intentionally allowing a goal could be construed as fixing the match - an act that even a toothless, ineffectual body like FIFA will punish remorselessly.

[Edited 2010-06-27 19:24:17]
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Braybuddy
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:57 am

I'm amused at how seriously people take the World Cup, It's only a game, so build a bridge and get over it. We had a similar situation here when we lost to France in one of the qualifying rounds due to an alleged infringment of the rules by one of the French players. The following day I heard a guy on a radio phone-in programme actually CRYING over the referee's decision, and the subsequent anti-French sentiment has been a disgrace. Personally I was delighted as we were spared the overkill of this event.

Even though I have absolutely NO interest in the World Cup (I opened this thread not realising what it was about) I scoured the sports shops looking for French football shirt to wear in work (just to annoy everyone), to no avail. One sales assistant looked at me incredulously and barked "And we won't be getting them in either!".  
 
TransIsland
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Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:09 am

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
1) Should goal line technology be introduced to resolve such disputes? (No brainer in my opinion)

2) In circumstances like today, where EVERYONE knew that the goal Lampard scored was legitimate, should Germany have done the decent thing and let England score?

2) No, that's just a tad unrealistic.

1) Also, no. Wembley 1966, and people talked about it for 44 years; sadly, I fear that after today, Wembley will cease to exist, but the discussion will be replaced by Bloemfontein. That is an important part of football, and it would be boring without these emotions and mistakes.
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us330
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:09 am

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 21):
If, during the time between the bad call and when play is stopped, the other team manages to score a goal, there will be HUGE arguments about setting the clock back and removing that goal.

No there won't--not if everybody understands the rules beforehand. It's happened in hockey before--where reversing a bad call has led to the removal of a goal scored by the other team--it sucks, but the teams know the rules, and who knows whether the second goal would have been scored if they were forced to kickoff from midfield.

Admittedly, hockey's system does come with one caveat--there has to be a decision made before the next stoppage of play. If no decision can be reached, they can simply say the play is under review and stop the game before the next faceoff. It might have to work somewhat differently in soccer because there are no stoppages of play.
 
scrubbsywg
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:54 am

Quoting JMA777 (Reply 5):
Although, in my opinion, the German goal keeper was the most worthy of blame. He knew full well that a goal had been scored, yet threw the ball back out into play. Not very sportsman like at all, a disgrace to most - even the few German fans I spoke to.

amazing you are so sure he was watching he ball go in while he was flying through the air looking at what looks like the sidelines.

i wouldn't be so sure he knew it was a goal. watch the replay, it isn't like he was standing there watching where the ball bounced.
 
NAV20
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:18 am

Quoting us330 (Reply 13):
That said, my alternative proposal (instead of the goalline technology) is to institute something like the National Hockey League does--something that would not disrupt the flow of the game unless the call needed to be changed. FIFA should install cameras along the goalline, and have one "replay official" sitting in the stadium somewhere--and only review whether or not the ball fully crossed the line.

If the replay official finds that the ball indeed fully crossed the line, than he can contact the 4th official sitting by the bench, who can then rush on to the field to stop play, and have the clock reset to the time it was when the ball crossed the line, and give the other team the kickoff.

You make a good point, us330 - but it's difficult to see, on the face of it, how such 'technology' could be applied to soccer, because one of its primary rules is that 'play should be continuous.' In this case, the ball did not 'go out of play' (well, not in the view of the officials, anyway  ) and therefore the goalie cleared the ball and play went on.

That doesn't happen in most sports where video technology is used. In tennis, for example, the technology is mostly used to check double-check linecalls, and in almost all cases this happens after the particular 'passage of play' has ended. The same goes for cricket, in which play is also episodic, 'ball by ball.'

In this particular case, had the referee been able to call for a video review, the decision would have gone in England's favour and play would have been resumed with a German kick-off from the centreline. But suppose the ref. had stopped the game for a 'video review' and the decision had gone the other way? How could the referee have re-started play in a manner that would have been fair to the Germans?

Normal practice in soccer, when play has to be suspended with neither side having true 'possession,' is a 'dropped ball' at the site of the suspension - two opposing guys facing each other a couple of yards apart, and not allowed to play the ball until it has bounced.

If the Germans HAD been in the right on this particular occasion, re-starting play with a 'dropped ball' right on their goal-line would hardly have been a 'fair and reasonable' way of re-starting play?  
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David_itl
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:47 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 30):
If the Germans HAD been in the right on this particular occasion, re-starting play with a 'dropped ball' right on their goal-line would hardly have been a 'fair and reasonable' way of re-starting play?

England would have had a player there but would not have challenged for the ball - it's happnend lots of time when play has been stopped despite the ball being in play so that a player can get treatment; sort of a gentleman's agreemnent to let the side that had the ball continue in possession.
 
gkirk
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:59 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):

A bit like 1966?  

Anyway, it was quite obviously a goal, but what's happened has happened, and I think FIFA are too spineless to bring in the technology.

Get over it, England should have been out in the group stages anyway, they were terrible.
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Andreas
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:37 am

A man's job....a demolition job well done. 5-1 would have been even sweeter, but hey, we are nice guys, didn't want to rub your noses in it...

Have a nice flight home and maybe, just maybe start re-thinking strategy...Germany was in the same dark place after 2004..and we learened our lesson truly well!

Forget that non-goal...England never stood a chance to win that game, never in your life time with that sorry excuse of a defense line, captain of the hearts John Terry most of all.

Get over it...
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gkirk
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:48 am

Quoting Andreas (Reply 33):

To be fair, the German defence looked wobbly at times as well, what was the keeper doing Superman impressions for at Upsons goal?
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Andreas
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:57 am

Quoting gkirk (Reply 34):
To be fair, the German defence looked wobbly at times as well, what was the keeper doing Superman impressions for at Upsons goal?

Yes indeed, and not only Neuer but Mertesacker even worse...I know. Just nobody even tried to take the part of Terry when it became clear that this guy wasn't really present yesterday...in our case Arne Friedrich (of all players!!!) did an excellent job. What was most impressive: our midfield...excellent job, brilliant each and every one of them.

For Neuer it was lesson, he is NOT our No.1 goalie, but in the second half he got better and better...just in time fpr Argentina.

But then...who cares for Argentina...the goal was "Been there, done that, sent England home"!!!

Mission accomplished LOLOLOL
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JMA777
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:12 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 24):
Even if he did know, how is it unsportsmanlike to pretend that it wasn't a goal? I thought the objective here was to win the game?

Winning is playing by the rules. I'm not saying that England should have won - we deserved what we got, but not 'fessing up to that goal is disgraceful.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 24):
you can't blame FIFA when the terrible defense of the English defenders allowed four goals, including terrible goalkeeping as well.

Again, missing the point like the linesman. I wasn't speculating that the one disallowed goal would have won the game - I'm commenting on how unsportsman like it was of the German goal keeper to not speak up about the goal.

Quoting scrubbsywg (Reply 29):
i wouldn't be so sure he knew it was a goal. watch the replay, it isn't like he was standing there watching where the ball bounced.

I think his facial expressions and subsequent reactions speak volumes. Speculation is all we have in this case.
Josh
 
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LTU932
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:21 am

In a way, you could see this as justice that was done after the Wembley goal, when it was a Soviet linesman that screwed us. But in all seriousness, that goal from Lampard should have been given, it was crystalclear. Even Franz Beckenbauer has said that the linesman MUST have seen that. This was yet another argument that we need more technology and the video review. Sure, we can't overfill football with technology like the NFL, but it is time that we introduce technologies that helps resolve disputed goals such as these.
 
Andreas
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:28 am

Quoting JMA777 (Reply 36):
I'm commenting on how unsportsman like it was of the German goal keeper to not speak up about the goal.

Sorry but you must be joking! Did I ever see Terry or Rooney or Gerrard walk up to a Ref to tell him it was offside or whatever??? THAT is the job of the Ref and his linesmen...and I fully agree: THAT was bad joke, I mean everybody saw that it was a regular goal, I can assure you we were about as flabbergasted as you guys when we heard it is still 2-1.

Neuer, AT BEST, FELT or assumed that it was a goal but looking at the TV pics there was no way he could have actually SEEN it.

As I said earlier: get over it and start rethinking your approach to football.....England, or rather English football is still living in the 80ies, you just refuse to see the light...football has moved on and I can assure you: In Germany it took us quite long as well, until 2004, to see that we are running down a dead end. The English team I saw yesterday was a disgrace...I would have preferred a big match between equals...look at the first 35 Minutes of the game and then from around minute 60 onwards...it was not: You didn't stand a chance to win this match, period!
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Rj111
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:47 am

Of course we stood a chance.

Not saying we are the better team, but we could have still won.
 
Andreas
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:55 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 39):
Of course we stood a chance.

Not saying we are the better team, but we could have still won.

Yep right  

See you in 2 years....or 4.... for the next rubdown
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JMA777
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:19 am

Quoting Andreas (Reply 38):
Neuer, AT BEST, FELT or assumed that it was a goal but looking at the TV pics there was no way he could have actually SEEN it.

I disagree. Look at the first image of the German goalkeeper as you scroll down on this BBC link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/2010/06/bond.html

He is unquestionably looking at the ball, as it has crossed the line.

QED.
Josh
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:28 am

Quoting JMA777 (Reply 36):
Winning is playing by the rules. I'm not saying that England should have won - we deserved what we got, but not 'fessing up to that goal is disgraceful.

Did he see it? I cant access youtube or anything right now to verify, but I would imagine the goalkeeper was diving backwards and looking up at the ball sailing over his head at the time, would he really have enough time to look down and see it bounce, and be 100% certain it crossed the line? Imagine the outrage if he wasnt sure, and gave england the benefit of the doubt and claimed it was a goal, only to later discover it DIDNT cross the line?

And where do you draw the line? If goalkeepers must be sporting and admit when it crosses the line, must defenders also confess and admit they handled the ball in the box, and walk off the pitch when the ref misses their handball? What about when the ref awards a goal kick, and the player knows it should be a corner? If the players were trully sporting, there would be no need for referees or linesmen.

gGoal lien technology is definately needed - but expecting honesty and sportsmanship from players is a little unrealistic.

Unfortunately the game is far too competitive, and there is far too much pride and money at stake.

Quoting david_itl (Reply 31):
England would have had a player there but would not have challenged for the ball - it's happnend lots of time when play has been stopped despite the ball being in play so that a player can get treatment; sort of a gentleman's agreemnent to let the side that had the ball continue in possession.

There's a massive difference between a drop-kick mid pitch for an injured player, and a drop-kick right on the goal line for a goal dissallowed. I'm pretty sure every striker in the world would be competing for that ball!
 
JMA777
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:30 am

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 42):
Did he see it?

I'd certainly argue he did.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/2010/06/bond.html
Josh
 
Rj111
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:30 am

Quoting Andreas (Reply 40):
Yep right

Correct.

The disallowed goal changed the whole composition of the game. It could have been anyone's game after that.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:34 am

Let's just forget about this! In the heat of the moment, honesty is last, we've already seen it with Luis Fabiano, when he was asked by the ref if his goal was a double handball or not, and if there was real honesty at all times, Thierry Henry would have admitted that he did a handball in the match against Ireland in Paris.

And this honesty (or lack thereof) isn't exclusive to football. You'll see it in other sports as well. Basta!
 
Andreas
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:03 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 44):
The disallowed goal changed the whole composition of the game. It could have been anyone's game after that.

Sorry I don't get the picture...it DID change the composition of the game:

From this "goal" on it was England pressing...until around minute 60 or so..there were 10, 12 minutes at the beginning of second half when Germany didn't actually get over the midline...now how much change in a game do you need?

England didn't score....why not? Because they couldn't decide how to proceed!! It was kick and rush and a few distance shots given that Neuer wasn't that good in the first half.

And most of all, it was giving up defense altogether...now is THAT Germany's mistake? No certainly not, but they made 2 great goals out of it. Sorry admit it: You guys played like a bunch of bloody beginners....which is somewhat funny since it was one of the main points in English (yellow) press why England will win  
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Rj111
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:11 am

Do you think we would have committed so many players forward if we weren't chasing the game?

If we played like a bunch of beginners then Germany has a lot to worry about. "Conceding" 2 to a bunch of beginners. Only achieving 45% possession to a bunch of begginers. Allowing a bunch of beginners to hit the bar twice and get more shots on target.

Etc.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:29 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 47):
Do you think we would have committed so many players forward if we weren't chasing the game?

If we played like a bunch of beginners then Germany has a lot to worry about. "Conceding" 2 to a bunch of beginners. Only achieving 45% possession to a bunch of begginers. Allowing a bunch of beginners to hit the bar twice and get more shots on target.

Etc.

Stop whining. The "goal" was a referee´s disgrace and should have been awarded, but for the rest, your team played like sh#te and should have been kicked out from the tournament already during the group stages.
Set up a new, better team and then we´ll see again in four years time.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Andreas
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RE: Soccer/Football: Goal Line Dispute Technology?

Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:34 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 47):
Do you think we would have committed so many players forward if we weren't chasing the game?

If we played like a bunch of beginners then Germany has a lot to worry about. "Conceding" 2 to a bunch of beginners. Only achieving 45% possession to a bunch of begginers. Allowing a bunch of beginners to hit the bar twice and get more shots on target.

Actually your first point is somewhat...you know...strange, to say the least. Are you aware that other team, sometimes try to score as well...which what you need a defense for??? THAT is the reason why Germany scored FOUR (with some very convincing opportunities to go to half a dozen easily)!

Erm no, we do have a lot to worry about because our own defense is far from being worldclass, same goes for the goalie....I certainly do not worry too much about this as long as our strikers score TWO for every one we get.

Besides it was YOU ENGERLAENDERS who came up with the idea of Germany being a bunch of snotnosed youngsters not to be afraid of...and your performance in defense was....amateurish, and most English football fans I discuss this with freely admitted it..I mean it was so obvious!
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