MadameConcorde
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National Debt Clock

Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:22 am

Tick tock.. Time's up...

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

 Wow!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
propilot83
Posts: 618
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RE: National Debt Clock

Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:38 am

Oh no, time wont be up, the national debt increases about $5 billion a day.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: National Debt Clock

Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:53 am

Not only US debt clock

World debt clocks

Japan
Greece
Italy
Gerrmany
Portugal
UK
Spain
China
Saudi Arabia


 Wow!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
propilot83
Posts: 618
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RE: National Debt Clock

Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:06 am

Man this website is pretty interesting, it not only shows debt clock, but payroll taxes, IRS revenues, deficit, unemployed people, retirees, etc, talk about transparency, very cool   
 
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fca767
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RE: National Debt Clock

Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:55 am

We could just say "Stop" and it would stop....then start again...At the end of the day, they resources are still there to be farmed, all it would take is volunteers, in exchange for food, water housing etc.

We'll always have the machinery to make things, though oil will go, we've got solar etc.
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: National Debt Clock

Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:31 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 2):

If everyone is owing money, who is lending them to these nations?   
 
JMA777
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RE: National Debt Clock

Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:00 pm

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 5):
If everyone is owing money, who is lending them to these nations?

That was what I tried to figure out when this all kicked off. It's the IMF.

Basically, we're borrowing money from the future that may or may not exist. I need someone more economics-interested to explain it, as I'll end up in a political rant about Gordon Brown.
Josh
 
propilot83
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RE: National Debt Clock

Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:07 pm

This is very interesting, because I always wondered "where does money come from," they cant just print it hot off the press, I mean not all the time you know, it would cause a deficit in GDP. Also some people were saying during the bailouts "well how come Congress wont just give everyone a million or a billion dollars a piece, then everything would be alright." Oh no  Wow! I didnt think so, common sense would tell you that giving every living person or family a million or a billion dollars would cause demand to go so high, that supply would literally fall into the depths. We would run out of oil in a blink of an eye.
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: National Debt Clock

Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:10 pm

Quoting JMA777 (Reply 6):

Thank you for the answer! I will try to read more about the IMF on wiki for starters.

Quoting propilot83 (Reply 7):
This is very interesting, because I always wondered "where does money come from," they cant just print it hot off the press, I mean not all the time you know, it would cause a deficit in GDP.

Same here. I thought the US borrowed all its money from China.. but then again, where would China get all this money from?
And then seeing that China is having a growing debt as well, I didn't understand anything anymore 

[Edited 2010-06-30 12:12:43]
 
Ken777
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RE: National Debt Clock

Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:57 pm

it's interesting to look at it for a while, but it seems both the black and red numbers are totally dependent on Confidence.

At this time I think that Confidence is a big risk. Congress just "declined" to extend unemployment benefits, which had some important funding for states as well. That's going to take billions out of the economy, boost foreclosures, increase those without health insurance(or increase Medicaid), etc.

It also, I believe, is going to risk and expansion of the recession.

There is an editorial in the NY Times today. While I don't agree with all of it I do agree with:

Quote:
Deficits matter, but not more than economic recovery, and not more urgently than the economic survival of millions of Americans. A sane approach would couple near-term federal spending with a credible plan for deficit reduction — a mix of tax increases and spending cuts — as the economic recovery takes hold.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/30/opinion/30wed1.html?hp

Neither the Republicans nor the Tea Party would agree with this, and both will gain strength in the November elections. I can therefore see some major problems next year when the hard right gets more power.
 
Kent350787
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RE: National Debt Clock

Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:32 pm

Let's not talk neo-Keynesianism here!   Except it seems to broadly work - although the US is a prime example where Government spending wasn't subsequently reduced in the good times.....
 
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Mortyman
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RE: National Debt Clock

Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:53 pm

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 8):
thought the US borrowed all its money from China

The US borrows money from far more countries than that:


Numbers for 2009:



United States public debtUnited States public debt:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt


Foreign owners of US Treasury Securities (July 2009)


Nation / billions of dollars / percentage



People's Republic of China 800.5 - 23.35%

Japan 724.5 - 21.13%

United Kingdom 220.2 - 6.42%

Caribbean banking centers 193.3 - 5.64%

Oil exporters 189.2 - 5.52%

Brazil 138.1 - 4.03%

Russia 118.0 - 3.44%

Hong Kong 115.3 - 3.36%

Luxembourg 92.2 - 2.69%

Taiwan R.O.C. 77.4 - 2.26%

Switzerland 68.1 - 1.99%

Germany 56.3 - 1.64%

Singapore 42.4 - 1.24%

India 38.9 - 1.13%

Republic of Ireland 38.6 - 1.13%

Korea 37.6 - 1.10%

Thailand 31.4 - 0.92%

Norway 28.9 - 0.84%

Mexico 27.7 - 0.81%

Turkey 27.3 - 0.80%

France 24.6 - 0.72%

Netherlands 21.5 - 0.63%

Canada 20.2 - 0.59%

Egypt 18.6 - 0.54%

Italy 17.4 - 0.51%

Israel 16.9 - 0.49%

Sweden 16.5 - 0.48%

Belgium 15.7 - 0.46%

Colombia 14.8 - 0.43%

Chile 13.5 - 0.39%

Malaysia 11.9 - 0.35%

Philippines 11.4 - 0.33%

All other 159.6 - 4.66%


Grand Total 3428.0





Please note that these numbers are from 2009 and is outdated. However it gives an indication
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: National Debt Clock

Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:45 pm

Wow....just....wow Incredible...kinda hard to follow too, but just incredible. And isn't it adjusted due to possible errors?

  
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
af773atmsp
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RE: National Debt Clock

Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:26 am

So even in better economic times for the U.S. the national debt is still there, but just going slower?
It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: National Debt Clock

Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:16 am

What if the US goes belly up with declared bankruptcy?

How are they going to repay all the debt then?

I guess they can avoid this by running the printing machines.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
BMI727
Posts: 11110
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: National Debt Clock

Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:27 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
What if the US goes belly up with declared bankruptcy?

That would probably never happen. Inflation can be an issue though. But on the flip side, just think of how rich the country has to be to get a line of credit like that.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
How are they going to repay all the debt then?

It seems unlikely that any nation would ever demand the debt to be repaid. Doing so would cause huge problems in the US economy, which in turn would probably cause huge problems in their economy. People like to talk about potential economic armageddon if China wants to be repaid, but often forget that doing that would destroy one of China's biggest export markets.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: National Debt Clock

Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:29 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
I guess they can avoid this by running the printing machines.

??? Like Zimbabwe?
 
JMA777
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:18 am

RE: National Debt Clock

Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:35 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):

I guess they can avoid this by running the printing machines.

Quantitative easing wouldn't be the answer - funny though it may sound, you can't simply print money when you've got none left. The amount that the US would need in the situation you describe would lead to hyperinflation. I don't think that needs further explanation.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):

How are they going to repay all the debt then?

Don't think of it as 'debt', it's not like they've been naughty with a credit card, it's a 'deficit'.
Josh
 
einsteinboricua
Posts: 4669
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: National Debt Clock

Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:22 pm

Quoting JMA777 (Reply 17):
Don't think of it as 'debt', it's not like they've been naughty with a credit card, it's a 'deficit'.

Even less when the country holds some debt but the US buys nearly all its exports. China comes to mind. So in reality it's all balanced: you give me money, I'll buy your exports.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."

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