KPDX
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This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:02 pm

I really don't want to start up a full thread about guns, but watching this video, it really showed why owning a gun CAN be useful. Who knows what could have happened if he didn't have a gun?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9fc_1279239950
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futurepilot16
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:25 pm

But what if they had guns and fired back? What if they were real FBI agents who were serving a warrant and he shot at them? I am very pro gun, but there are numerous situations in which a video like this could be spun. In this case, the perps were unarmed, which the homeowner is very lucky that they were.With that being said, I think he took the right course of action because I would have done the same thing.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:31 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 1):
But what if they had guns and fired back?

That rarely ever happens. Criminals almost always flee, specially in a situation like this one where they could not see where the shots were coming from.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 1):
What if they were real FBI agents who were serving a warrant and he shot at them?

If you're a law abiding citizen, then you sure as hell have no reason to be expecting law enforcement to come tearing down your door.
 
ual747den
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:02 pm

In Colorado we have the make my day law that says we can shoot anyone who breaks into our house and defend our property. If someone is stupid enough to try to pull that they are going to be playing with their own life. I am a very hard Democrat but if someone is coming into my house I am going to be sure they don't make it back out alive.
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comorin
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:01 pm

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 3):
I am a very hard Democrat but if someone is coming into my house I am going to be sure they don't make it back out alive.

Including Dinner guests?
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:14 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 1):
But what if they had guns and fired back?

That is why you aim carefully  
Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 1):
but there are numerous situations in which a video like this could be spun

I more often disagree than agree with you, but this is a valid point. Though I am sure this guy could tell they weren't real FBI agents. Not saying he did, but seeing these blundering idiots, I would've been able to tell. No SOP operates the way these clowns were acting
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Airstud
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:00 am

Quoting comorin (Reply 4):
Including Dinner guests?

Well there's a hint as to what he's serving.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
steeler83
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:08 am

Quoting KPDX (Thread starter):
I really don't want to start up a full thread about guns, but watching this video, it really showed why owning a gun CAN be useful

...and why there needs to be a new bill signed into law protecting those who use their constitutional rights to protect their property and themselves...

...so that a person cannot file suit against anyone for any injury or personal suffering sustained while in the act of committing a crime against that person or his property.

You break into my house, and I shoot your ass and you wind up in the hospital, sorry, but you were committing the act of breaking and entering, which is a felony. You pay damages to me, buddy; not the other way around, whether it be monetary compensation or a community service/debt to society.

I hate these frivolous lawsuits that criminals file because they got hurt. So it's the property owner's fault that someone was mauled by a guard dog or shot at because they were someplace they had no permission going to? If you ask me, criminals really do not deserve any rights or privilages. If you're hurt while doing something stupid and foolish, such as committing a crime, sorry, but you forfeit your constitutional rights. The only rights you'll have afterwards are the ones read to you as you're carted off to the slammer!
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StuckInCA
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:14 am

I think statistics show that you're more likely to have a bad ending by having a gun in your home.

*shrugs*
 
mls515
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:28 am

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 9):
I think statistics show that you're more likely to have a bad ending by having a gun in your home.

*shrugs*

Same goes for a swimming pool in your back yard too.....
 
ual747den
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:38 am

Quoting comorin (Reply 4):
Including Dinner guests?

I sure would like to send my in-laws out the door like that when they come for dinner! Does that count!
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
Cadet57
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:59 am

Quoting comorin (Reply 4):
Including Dinner guests?

Well, reply 4... took longer than I expected.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 9):
I think statistics show that you're more likely to have a bad ending by having a gun in your home.

Care to prove that? Don't hear of many homeowners who were defending their property getting shot. Usually its the other way around.
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Mir
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:15 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 2):
If you're a law abiding citizen, then you sure as hell have no reason to be expecting law enforcement to come tearing down your door.

Unless they got the warrant wrong, or the address on it. Which has happened.

-Mir
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AirframeAS
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:17 am

These people who commit crimes like this is never going to learn, and it is sad really.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 8):
You break into my house, and I shoot your ass and you wind up in the hospital, sorry, but you were committing the act of breaking and entering, which is a felony. You pay damages to me, buddy; not the other way around, whether it be monetary compensation or a community service/debt to society.

Agreed 100%!!!! The Colorado "Make My Day" law needs to extend to the ENTIRE property, not just the dwelling. It is quite disturbing that you are not allowed to defend your property except for the contents inside the home, not outside. It's more like "take all you want, it is not in the house". That needs to change.

Like the case of the 82 year old man who is being charged for attempted murder. The illegal aliens were trying to steal his trailer that was in his driveway. What was the 82 year old supposed to do? Stand there and watch and say good-bye to the trailer? He wasn't gonna let those goons win.
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Mudboy
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:29 am

I am all for being able to protect your home with a gun, not real crazy about a trigger happy neighbor lighting someone up in their yard though, excited people tend to forget their background when trying to hit a target at night.
Now if I had a few bean bag rounds in the old 12 guage, I would have some fun if someone came in my yard univited 
 
NorthstarBoy
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:28 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 14):
Agreed 100%!!!! The Colorado "Make My Day" law needs to extend to the ENTIRE property, not just the dwelling. It is quite disturbing that you are not allowed to defend your property except for the contents inside the home, not outside. It's more like "take all you want, it is not in the house". That needs to change.

Like the case of the 82 year old man who is being charged for attempted murder. The illegal aliens were trying to steal his trailer that was in his driveway. What was the 82 year old supposed to do? Stand there and watch and say good-bye to the trailer? He wasn't gonna let those goons win.

I find it hard to believe that anything in a trailer is worth more than a human life. For that matter, I find it hard to believe that anything in a house, short of the lives of the occupants, is worth more than a human life. If someone breaks into my house, they can have anything they want as long as they don't harm me or my loved ones. To that end, if i'm ever in that situation, i'll fully cooperate with them, i can replace whatever they take, i can't replace myself.

When I did Pizza delivery eons ago, the first and hardest thing they pounded into our heads on the subject of being held up was "Don't be a hero" and "Your money is replaceable, you're not." If I have to translate it, that means give the thief what he wants and do as you're told, don't try to fight him off.

Vigilanteism and bravado aside, just ask a police officer how emotionally difficult it is to have to kill someone, even if your life is being threatened. You may feel a rush of adrenaline to draw down and nail some perp in the head, and the police may agree that you were justified in shooting that unarmed teenager who broke into your house, but, unless you have no conscience, once the adrenaline subsides it will be replaced with guilt and self doubt because in the end you have a dead kid and for what reason? to protect a bunch of furniture that can easily be replaced.

IMO we place too little value on human life and too much value on replaceable possessions, it should never be okay to kill someone, regardless of the situation. Unfortunately we live in a society where the gun wackos have told us it's okay to value items over other human beings. The items can always be replaced, the people can't.
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Mudboy
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:39 am

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 16):
If someone breaks into my house, they can have anything they want as long as they don't harm me or my loved ones. To that end, if i'm ever in that situation, i'll fully cooperate with them, i can replace whatever they take, i can't replace myself.

But, do you trust a person that has just broken into your house, when they say they will not harm you? I sure would not!!
Do you really think they are going to say," we are about to kill you and your family"?
Yes, taking any life sux, but sometimes life does not afford second chances!
My problem is, if a person breaks into someone's house or tries to rob them, they should accept the chance, that they could lose their life, even if doing harm was not their intent. My job is to protect my family and myself from harm, not try to read the mind of a person, that has just broken into my home.
 
fridgmus
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:56 am

Interesting debate all.

As some of you know, I'm very Pro-Gun. I support the guy in the video and Colorado's law. Whenever I'm back in the US, I practice a lot with my handguns and rifles as I shoot competition when I can.

With that said,

"EVERYBODY WHO OWNS A GUN SHOULD HAVE PROPER INSTRUCTION AND PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE"

If you don't get proper instruction and practice, you're a danger to yourself and those around you!

If you don't know where to get it, ask your local gun dealer or local law enforcement.
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EMBQA
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:01 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 1):
What if they were real FBI agents who were serving a warrant and he shot at them?

Pretty clear they are fake. That is NOT how the FBI serves a warrant. They would first pound on the door and yell FBI we are here to serve you a warrant... if no response they would use a ram and open the door. There would be more then 3 of them and they would not show up in a Benz SUV
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fr8mech
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:31 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 1):
But what if they had guns and fired back?

Really? Work your way through that one. What if they had guns and gained entry to the house?

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 1):
What if they were real FBI agents who were serving a warrant and he shot at them?

Though, there was no audio, and I we can't tell what the verbal interaction is, I assume it was not the professional exchange that you'd expect if the FBI was trying to gain forceable entry to serve a warrant. In other words, if a law-enforcement agency is going to boot in your door to serve you, they don't do it in this amateurish way depicted on the video. They come whole-hog.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 9):
I think statistics show that you're more likely to have a bad ending by having a gun in your home.

And skydivers have are more likely to die skydiving tha non-skydivers. Drivers more likely to die driving than non-drivers. Golfers are more likely to die golfing than non-golfers. We can go on forever.

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 15):
Now if I had a few bean bag rounds in the old 12 guage,

I'm seriously considerig a bean-bag round for my shotgun. Say, the first 2 are beanbag. If that hasn't stopped the intruder, some 3", #4 ought to do it.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 16):
If someone breaks into my house, they can have anything they want as long as they don't harm me or my loved ones.

I agree that nothing in the house is worth my life of the lives my family, but that does not extend to the intruder. How do I know that someone who has already broken the law is going to be satisfied with what I provide him willingly? What if he wants more and we don't have more? Or, what if he wants what only my wife or daughter can provide? What if he just makes his little 'promise' of no harm just to gain compliance and ease? Sorry, break into my house, get past the dogs, you will meet the business end of one of my firearms. Whether I shoot or not will depend on your immediate actions when confronted by me (or a family member).

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 16):
Unfortunately we live in a society where the gun wackos have told us it's okay to value items over other human beings.

How's this? I don't consider someone who preys upon others as a human being...at least not to the point where I will extend to them any sympathy or advantage. Break into my house and, given the opportunity, I will defend myself until you are no longer a threat.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:53 pm

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 16):
Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 16):
If someone breaks into my house, they can have anything they want as long as they don't harm me or my loved ones. To that end, if i'm ever in that situation, i'll fully cooperate with them, i can replace whatever they take, i can't replace myself.

But, do you trust a person that has just broken into your house, when they say they will not harm you? I sure would not!!

I agree with that. Sometimes using deadly force is justifiable. There are no guarantees that the burglar will not harm you at all. In most cases, IIRC, the burglar is the one that does bodily harm than anything else. That is why you should always be prepared and never negotiate with the thief.

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 17):
"EVERYBODY WHO OWNS A GUN SHOULD HAVE PROPER INSTRUCTION AND PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE"

And get a CCW!!! That helps somewhat and shows that one is a responsible person enough to own a firearm.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:41 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 13):
Like the case of the 82 year old man who is being charged for attempted murder. The illegal aliens were trying to steal his trailer that was in his driveway. What was the 82 year old supposed to do? Stand there and watch and say good-bye to the trailer? He wasn't gonna let those goons win.

Florida's "Stand your ground" law has had cases like the above quoted scenario tested in a courtroom. In this instance, it failed because the thieves were NOT threatening the lives of their victims.
 
Acheron
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:04 pm

The people in the video don't look your typical burglar, though. Driving a Benz and a extremely sloppy way of trying to break in.
 
eaa3
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:59 pm

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 3):
I am a very hard Democrat but if someone is coming into my house I am going to be sure they don't make it back out alive.

Really. So in a "premeditated" way you would kill someone that enters you house. It´s not self defense if it's been decided ahead of time.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:00 pm

Quoting phatfarmlines (Reply 21):
In this instance, it failed because the thieves were NOT threatening the lives of their victims.

So does that make it ok for the thieves to go on someone's property and take what is not theirs??
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:51 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 24):
So does that make it ok for the thieves to go on someone's property and take what is not theirs??

That's not what I was inferring. I do agree with you that it is not okay for thieves to take someone's property; however, the law states that as long as they are not threatening you (i.e someone is hot-wiring your vehicle on the driveway and you happen to be peeking out the front window), you just can't go outside and pull a Charles Bronson/Death Wish-shooting style attack. At the very least you would be looking at a manslaughter charge if the theives died.
 
Cadet57
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:56 am

Quoting phatfarmlines (Reply 25):
however, the law states that as long as they are not threatening you (i.e someone is hot-wiring your vehicle on the driveway and you happen to be peeking out the front window), you just can't go outside and pull a Charles Bronson/Death Wish-shooting style attack.

Castle Doctrine. Look it up.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
steeler83
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:04 am

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 23):
Really. So in a "premeditated" way you would kill someone that enters you house. It´s not self defense if it's been decided ahead of time.

Ok, maybe I wouldn't intentionally kill someone just for breaking onto my property, but I am going to defend it. If they come at me and in some way threaten my very existance, I will make sure they regret it, and I will put myself through any training necessary (gun ownership and martial arts) to do whatever it takes to protect my home, my life, and my fiancee's life...

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 24):
So does that make it ok for the thieves to go on someone's property and take what is not theirs??

Eh, if I really had no choice, at that point I'd conceal a camera and get as much proof as I could to then use against those idiots in a court of law. Let it be known, I do intend to learn how to use a pistol/revolver, and I will exercise my constitutional right to own a fire arm and to protect myself, my wife (to-be), and my property...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:42 am

My bent, as a physician, is to look at this through the lens of risk/benefit.

Anecdotes are useful, but only in a very limited way. A reliance on anecdotes denotes that you have very little other evidence.

"I won't get the HPV vaccine because a girl in England got it and died!" Turns out later that the girl in England had a severe congenital heart defect and died of that and it just happened to be hours after her HPV vaccine.

We do know that children who live in homes where firearms are kept are three times more likely to die by those same firearms than children who live in homes without firearms. The question is whether the benefit of those firearms outweighs the risk.

The data actually show that it doesn't. The instances in which a firearm actually saves the life of the owner are very few and are the exceptions to the rule, rather than the rule.

This does not mean that firearm ownership should be banned or even publicly discouraged. That's just what the fact is.

Remember, anecdotes are events that seem more significant than they are. How many people who drive to work every day of their lives are terrified that they'll die in a plane crash?
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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Alias1024
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:44 am

Given some very recent events involving someone trying to gain access to my neighbor's home, I've been considering getting something for home defense. I'd previously been considering a Sig Sauer Mosquito for target shooting (22 ammo is cheap), but the recent events have put a Springfield XD45 in my sights.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 7):
...and why there needs to be a new bill signed into law protecting those who use their constitutional rights to protect their property and themselves...

If it is a constitutionally protected right there would be no need for a new law. The need for a law would imply that using a firearm to protect yourself and your property is not sanctioned by the US Constitution.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:56 am

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 29):
Given some very recent events involving someone trying to gain access to my neighbor's home, I've been considering getting something for home defense. I'd previously been considering a Sig Sauer Mosquito for target shooting (22 ammo is cheap), but the recent events have put a Springfield XD45 in my sights.

Has it occurred to you that there are other ways to incapacitate and intruder while causing less damage and avoiding a murder charge on the off chance you happen to be aiming at your son who's sneaking in past curfew?

Mace will stop someone on a dime unless they happen to be wearing a gas mask and it won't put holes in your walls. If they're wearing gas masks, then the gig's up, I guess, but they're more likely to be wearing Kevlar.
-Doc Lightning-

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EA CO AS
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:21 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
Mace will stop someone on a dime

Not always, particularly in cases where that someone is on drugs.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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Alias1024
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:29 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
Has it occurred to you that there are other ways to incapacitate and intruder while causing less damage and avoiding a murder charge on the off chance you happen to be aiming at your son who's sneaking in past curfew?

Mace will stop someone on a dime unless they happen to be wearing a gas mask and it won't put holes in your walls. If they're wearing gas masks, then the gig's up, I guess, but they're more likely to be wearing Kevlar.

I have no children so no worries on that front. As for the mace, I don't intend to let an intruder get close enough for me to be able to use it. They might be wearing kevlar, but that's why I'm thinking about a 45. Even with a vest that's gonna knock them on their ass.

I've thought it thorough many times both before and after the recent events. I'm in favor of many gun control laws like waiting periods, mandatory registration, and mandatory safety and training classes, but I'm not opposed to owning one myself for sport or personal defense.
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fr8mech
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:01 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
Mace will stop someone on a dime unless they happen to be wearing a gas mask and it won't put holes in your walls.

Nope. I took a face-full about 20 years ago. I'm sure I could have still fired a gun for the first 10 seconds or so. Accurately? No. But, I could still discharge it in the general direction.

By the way, did you know that some jurisdictions tha restrict firearms also place restrictions on mace, pepper spray, etc.?
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:17 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 28):
We do know that children who live in homes where firearms are kept are three times more likely to die by those same firearms than children who live in homes without firearms. The question is whether the benefit of those firearms outweighs the risk.

This figure is probably true (I didn't look it up but I'll take your word for it.) I believe, however, that most of these cases can be eliminated if parents 1: educated kids on proper use and 2: LOCKED THE DAMN THINGS UP. While I am pro gun, I strongly believe they are not for everyone because a lot of people lack the common sense to operate and store them. If you take easy, necessary precautions, you can both protect your home and prevent accidents, IMO.
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steeler83
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:12 am

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 29):
If it is a constitutionally protected right there would be no need for a new law. The need for a law would imply that using a firearm to protect yourself and your property is not sanctioned by the US Constitution.

   Right...

You know, I actually looked up the Bill of Rights, and there is no such right in there, so I guess there really is no Constitutional right to do so; just to own a gun.

Perhaps the 4th Amendment comes closest, from http://www.ushistory.org/documents/amendments.htm:

Quote:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Granted it means that law enforcement needs to have a search warrant to venture into another person's home, but it should also insinuate some right to safety and security in the event of robbery or burglary, etc...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
stratosphere
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:22 am

Quoting cadet57 (Reply 26):
Castle Doctrine. Look it up.

Yep and the Castle Doctrine has been extended to your car also atleast here in MS anyway. Me personally I was held up at gunpoint right in front of my house 2 yrs ago. They didn't get much and truthfully even if I had a gun it would not have helped me as I went up to their car and let my guard down when they asked for directions. But I did alarm my house and I bought a gun and I am now locked and loaded. In Mississippi you can shoot to kill for even protecting property. I keep my loaded gun on my nightstand I have no kids and I am single and I can tell you if anyone comes into my house I am shooting to kill plain and simple.

[Edited 2010-07-19 22:23:22]

[Edited 2010-07-19 22:24:23]
 
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DocLightning
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:13 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 31):

Not always, particularly in cases where that someone is on drugs.

In which case, a bullet might not stop them, either, unless it hits JUST the right place.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 33):

By the way, did you know that some jurisdictions tha restrict firearms also place restrictions on mace, pepper spray, etc.?

The difference is that if you kill an intruder with illegal firearms you have a very big problem. If you spray an intruder with illegal mace, you have a very small problem.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 34):
I believe, however, that most of these cases can be eliminated if parents 1: educated kids on proper use and 2: LOCKED THE DAMN THINGS UP.

If it's locked up it's not much good for defense, is it?
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:36 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 18):
Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 1):
What if they were real FBI agents who were serving a warrant and he shot at them?

Pretty clear they are fake. That is NOT how the FBI serves a warrant. They would first pound on the door and yell FBI we are here to serve you a warrant... if no response they would use a ram and open the door. There would be more then 3 of them and they would not show up in a Benz SUV

It depends. Over here, if police is expecting to arrest a suspected dangerous criminal (e.g. somebody who is known or suspected to be armed and suspected to fight back), they´ll use a SWAT team usually early in the morning and they come with as much force and surprise as possible to stun the person to be arrested and get him without him being able to put up a fight.
You´ll suddeenly have your door or a window knocked in and your place swamped with guys in overalls, body armour, balaclava helmets and Kevlar helmets yellling and pointing submachine guns and pistols at you. You´ll be down on the floor and handcuffed before you´ll have a chance to react.

Jan
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KaiGywer
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:41 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
Mace will stop someone on a dime unless they happen to be wearing a gas mask and it won't put holes in your walls.

As others have stated also, not really. I took a faceful a few months back, and while it hurt like hell, I still had to handcuff my instructor after getting sprayed.
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:38 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 37):
If it's locked up it's not much good for defense, is it?

Defense in depth. In my home, the doors and windows act as step one. Then the would be intruder would have to get through my dogs. I should have plenty of time to get to one of my firearms. Maybe not the preferred one, but at least one.

Unless the weapon happens to be on me or in work by me, it is behind a locked door.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:20 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 37):
If it's locked up it's not much good for defense, is it?

Well when I grow up I imagine I'll have all my guns locked up, and the handgun I will usually carry will be in my night stand at night but with me during day. I think that is pretty safe
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:48 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 41):

Well when I grow up I imagine I'll have all my guns locked up, and the handgun I will usually carry will be in my night stand at night but with me during day. I think that is pretty safe

Then you increase your chances of a member of your family dying from a gun by 3x.

Can't win.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful

Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:51 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 42):
Then you increase your chances of a member of your family dying from a gun by 3x.

Can't win.

Just by leaving it out at night? That would mean the kid would have to 1: know where I keep it at night and 2: sneak in my room in the middle of the night and steal it and 3: play with it I guess long enough to shoot himself.

I'm not saying that the source you are losing is wrong, and statistically, I would increase chances by 3x, but for someone like me there is a person that's an idiot and increases their chances by 10x, so after you average all that out we are all at "3x". Stats are tricky like that. I still think the best security is a good, obnoxious watch dog  
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