detroitflyer
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Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:29 pm

Hi all,

Planning on going on a trip to Europe with some friends. We are strapped for cash, so we might end up staying in hostels/hotels in seedy neighborhoods. Coming from Detroit, we know how to handle our own. But how is violent crime out in Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels and Frankfurt there compared to Detroit or say south Chicago or other bad US neighborhoods?
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:38 pm

Quoting detroitflyer (Thread starter):
compared to Detroit

Just about anything dwindles in comparision. Detroit is supposed to be pretty rough, but you would know that. I feel safe travelling abroad, I even travelled the streets of Cairo at night without feeling unsafe, so I think you would be ok, just use common sense. And watch your pockets  
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:40 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
And watch your pockets

Pickpocketing seems much more common out of the US otherwise, c'mon you're from Detroit... just use some common sense and you'll be golden.
 
UAL747
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:01 am

To OP:

How many times have you been victimized in Detroit divided by the number of weeks you've been there, vs. the number of weeks you'll be in Europe.......and with that I say, is this thread really necessary?

UAL
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ltbewr
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:27 am

First of all, stay out of seedy areas of any city. I am quite sure with some care you can find an appropiate and affordable hostel in a decent neighborhood.

In my past experiences traveling all over Europe and other places (including the USA), if you look like a tourist, you are more likely to get targeted by thieves. Use common sense, just like you would at home. Dress more like locals to fit in - ie: don't wear something 'American' like a shirt with a USA college name, sports team, etc.. Keep your eyes open and look around, not just ahead of you or up. Don't use 'recreational' drugs or drink to excess. Keep your money and papers secure, have some 'mugger money' on you (like = $20). Don't show off your camera/phone/computer/money. One big difference is thieves will be unlikely to have a gun on them and if have a weapon, it will more likely be a knife. Of course a knife can be as deadly as a gun in close quarters but there are some advantages. If ever in an area don't like, move quickly but not bringing attention to a well lighted and moderately crowded area or where cops/local security is posted.
 
Lufthansa411
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:42 am

Quoting detroitflyer (Thread starter):
But how is violent crime out in Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels and Frankfurt there compared to Detroit or say south Chicago or other bad US neighborhoods?

The seedy neighbourhoods of Europe are nothing compared to the seedy neighbourhoods of the US, with only a few exceptions such as Wally Range in Manchester. Honestly, seedy areas are not the problem in most European cities, the tourist zones are, especially tourist zones that are also seedy neighbourhoods. (The red light district in Paris and Amsterdam come to mind) There is no real violent crime in most major European cities like the US, instead most crime is in the form of pickpockets. Sounds a bit racist, but watch out for gypsies and other groups that will ask you a question like "do you speak English" while another member of the group takes your wallet or something else. Many will also replace what is in your pocket with something else to make it feel the same, so just watch out.

I have been in the same position as you, staying in the seedy areas of town to make money go further, and as long as you are smart about things, you will be fine. Walk like a local, and you will be treated like one. Walk like a confused little bunny rabbit, and you will be taken advantage of.
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Mudboy
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:32 am

The theives are the same in Europe, just more polite and a less intimidating accent. 

Situational awareness is the key, and do not put yourself in a bad situation. Idk, but I guess I have an eye, for when someone is trying to size me up? When my Girlfriend and I travel abroad or in the US, we always have a code word we use. If I see someone is trying to size us up, or engage us in a convo, I will say, "we better hurry babe, we are already late", and she knows it is time to roll.

The key is, walk with a purpose like you know where you are going and what you are doing. If you are wondering around as if you are lost, you make yourself a target. And, if kids come runnin up to you, asking if you speak English, just say," No English", with an accent of course, mine changes depending where I am 

And yes, stay away from the Gypsy families, they are pros.
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Braybuddy
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:09 pm

You don't have to stay in hostels in seedy areas, you'll find them all over European cities. Check out Hostelworld.com:

http://www.hostelworld.com/

Violent crime is very much more the exception than the rule. Pickpocketing is more common, and these guys are professionals, so be wary of anyone approaching you looking for the time, directions or any information and then engaging you in conversation or attempting to make any sort of contact with you or your clothing, however minor. Back off straight away, and shout at them if necessary. They'll retreat immediately and move on to the next person.

Having been around most of the major European cities over the last couple of years we've had no problems in most of them -- including ones with dodgy reputations such as Marseilles. Even wandering around city centres at all hours of the night, sometimes alone, caused no problems. In our expericece, Spain is by far the worst (probably due to high unemployment) and we've lost count of the time we were targeted, with Madrid being as bad as, if not worse, than Barcelona.

You have to take the usual precautions though: I don't understand why people going abroad want to look as though they are worth robbing. Older casual clothes are more comfortable, and there's no need whatsoever to wear jewellery, or expensive watches. I always wear a cheap watch on trips abroad, and never carry a wallet.

[Edited 2010-07-18 05:11:49]
 
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falstaff
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:51 pm

I see you live in Novi and that is not exactly rough. I didn't know you even had shady people in Novi. Down here in Taylor we get all kinds of derelects. Have you ever spent any time in the roughest areas of Detroit; not just passing through on the way to a concert or something?

Start by spending the night in a crummy motel on Michigan Avenue in Inkster. If that doesn't bug you move down the road to Michigan and Wyoming, in Detroit. Then go stay at the Milner downtown. If you can handle those places then you can handle anything those European cities will throw at you.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 7):
Violent crime is very much more the exception than the rule


That is very true. Most violent crime, even in Detroit, happens between people who know each other and or people in the drug trade.

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 6):
And yes, stay away from the Gypsy families, they are pros.


You have to watch out for them here too, they love to rip people off on home improvement scams.

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 6):
The key is, walk with a purpose like you know where you are going and what you are doing


I have had obvious tourists walk up to me and ask directions on many occasions in the US and abroad. They are usually amazed I am not a local. I usually travel alone so that may have something to do with it, as not all that many people travel alone.

One great thing about a.net and other enthusiast groups is that you have the chance to meet people from places other than where you live. I have traveled in Europe, Canada, and the USA meeting up and staying with friends I have met on a.net and in my other hobbies (brewery memorabilia and trains). Traveling abroad with locals is the best way to go. Next month I am going to the UK and will be staying with a friend I met when I was there in 08. He and I have a week of vintage trains to check out and a steam tractor show. A lot of the things we will see are obscure and without being local it would have been hard to find out about them. I have traveled all over Germany with brewery collectible friends and next year will go to Switzerland. Make the most of the friends you meet online and always return the favor by allowing them to stay at your home. You can save a lot of money by staying with friends and they can save a lot of money by staying with you.
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NoUFO
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:52 pm

Question: Why are you looking forward to seeing Frankfurt? I hope it's just to quickly leave the city and either explore the countryside or more attractive cities?
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airportugal310
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:02 pm

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 6):
And yes, stay away from the Gypsy families, they are pros.

Yes, in Portugal, my parents always tell me to watch for them. They will take you for a quick 'ride' if you are not careful - they also tend to run the majority of flea markets.
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MingToo
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:14 pm

Another thing to remember about staying in European cities is that we have a lot more public transport.

So, compared to the US, it is more feasible to stay in a nice area that is cheap but a little out of town rather than a cheaper area closer to the centre of the city. You will of course need to check out that the transport is convenient from there and that it runs late enough to get back.

Another good option which I know exists in the UK (although I'm not so sure about other countries) is too look at student accommodation. Many universities have halls of residence that are not occupied by the students during the summer and so they rent them out to visitors. For example:

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/residences/

It may be worth searching around on the net for the cities you are visiting (and some native speakers here may be happy to help with the search).

As an example from that UCL site ... 41.50 GBP for a room with private bathroom about 10 mins walk from Buckingham Palace in central London.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&....139389&spn=0.093943,0.145569&z=13

[Edited 2010-07-18 06:17:48]
 
GST
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:21 pm

Read up on the places you are going, the dodgy areas are usually well published. For example, in Amsterdam the area around the main train station is a pickpocket danger zone. And another reason to advocate reading the guidebooks and web is that the the cheapest place I found in Amsterdam was not actually a hostel in the normal dorm type sense, but a converted barge 20 mins walk from the city, and you got a secure 2 bunk cabin & breakfast for the price of one bed in a hostel dorm without food.
 
MingToo
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:27 pm

Quoting GST (Reply 12):
Read up on the places you are going
http://wikitravel.org/en/Main_Page is good (and free) place to start
 
MingToo
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:36 pm

I also find its a good idea just to read up a little on the culture and etiquette when visiting a country. In most cases it doesn't really matter, but its surprising well just making a little effort goes down with people.

This is a fairly good site which covers most places:

http://www.kwintessential.co.uk/resources/country-profiles.html

Of course the rules are completely different in different place. Don't leave plate on your food in the Netherlands, it's considered wasteful. Leave food on your plate in Thailand otherwise by eating it all you are implying that your host didn't give you enough !
 
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falstaff
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:00 pm

Quoting MingToo (Reply 14):
I also find its a good idea just to read up a little on the culture and etiquette when visiting a country

That can vary greatly even within a country. I have found some of the seedier areas of Europe have a lot of Muslims. The For example the Muslim population in a city like Bradford, England has a lot different culture than the small town of Thortenn Le Dale, where I visit.

The same could be said about the USA. The culture of the city of Detroit is different than it is in Trenton, just a 20 miles away. I teach in Trenton now and culture of the students is far different than when I taught in Detroit.

Quoting MingToo (Reply 14):
but its surprising well just making a little effort goes down with people.

I tend to find out where the right wing and other conservative types hang out and go to those places. Contrary to popular belief there are plenty of people like me in Europe. A couple of years ago a buddy and I were in the UK and one of the bars we went to was filled with rednecks like us. The locals were thrilled to meet Americans who weren't back packers, greens or liberals. They bought us so many beers I could hardly walk back to the hotel. I have had similar expierences in Germany and the Czech Republic. The reason I bring that up is becuase a lot of young Americans think that everyone in Europe is some sort of socialist or progressive, which is far from the truth. It is best to keep ones political opinions to oneself until you know you are around like minded people. The retired coal miners in that bar thought my buddy and I were great, but if we would have come in and started talking green stuff and social liberalism we would have had our asses kicked. I have been in bars in Berlin where if I spouted off my rightest views I would have had my ass kicked, but back in Halle I was good to go.

Quoting MingToo (Reply 14):
Leave food on your plate in Thailand otherwise by eating it all you are implying that your host didn't give you enough !

I'll be screwed if I go there. I like to clean my plate!

Quoting GST (Reply 12):
Read up on the places you are going,

I have often thought of writing a book called " A redneck's guide to European travel". I have already found a lot of off the beaten path small towns that good ole' boys will enjoy.
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:14 pm

Let's look at it this way: some US states have far more rate crimes. I went to Europe and the only danger I was really aware of was pickpockets. Other than that, there was no danger at all (well, in London there was a bit of a scene where a group of people vandalized the Holiday Inn in front of our Travelodge and then took refuge inside). The obvious of course: stay away from suspicious areas, try not to travel alone especially at night, and try to not stand out so much.
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racko
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:16 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 9):
Question: Why are you looking forward to seeing Frankfurt? I hope it's just to quickly leave the city and either explore the countryside or more attractive cities?

Ah, the usual rural German penis envy of Germany's single alpha city, Frankfurt. Never miss an oppurtunity to take a thread off topic to fight the feeling of inferiority.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:49 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 9):
Question: Why are you looking forward to seeing Frankfurt? I hope it's just to quickly leave the city and either explore the countryside or more attractive cities?

I like eastern Germany. It reminds me of the rust belt. I feel at home there.
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MingToo
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:10 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 15):
I'll be screwed if I go there. I like to clean my plate!

Well these sort of rules only tend to hold as a guest in someone's home anyway, they really aren't relevant in restaurants.

In Thailand just eat at one of the great street restaurants and budget $10 even in a tourist area ... that will get you something like Pad Thai noodles to start, 2 main courses with rice and a couple of beers. You'll be doing well to clean all those plates.
 
comorin
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:36 pm

I am from NYC and have a finely-honed second sense of street crime. I honestly feel NYC is safer than anywhere else and the crooks are also more polite here.

I was held up at knife point near Dam Square in Amsterdam by a bunch of non-Dutch losers, and my colleague was relieved of his briefcase at Schiphol.

You can get Happy Slapped in the UK, my friend's son was in the emergency room after an attack in Rugby.

You also have roving bands of skinheads that my friends in Dusseldorf warn me about. The scariest place I have been to however is Moscow. Something in the air...

My suggestion for dodgy neighborhoods in Europe is to walk around in daylight, and preferably with company.
 
NoUFO
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:41 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 18):
I like eastern Germany. It reminds me of the rust belt. I feel at home there.

When I hear "Frankfurt" I think of Frankfurt am Main which isn't exactly eastern Gemany. Frankfurt (Oder), a small city with some 60,000 souls close to the polish border, is but that's basically a collection of high-rise uniformly bland apartment buildings. You can see those in Leipzig, Dresden or Berlin as well but can have Leipzig, Dresden or Berlin with that.

Frankfurt am Main (FRA) is Germany's financial capital and pretty much bland in its own way, although (and as opposed to Frankfurt (Oder)) there are some nice spots such as Sachsenhausen (and I don't mean the former concentration camp).
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RobertNL070
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:52 pm

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 6):
walk with a purpose like you know where you are going and what you are doing.

   And generally just make use of your common sense and keep your wits about you. Unless you have really tough luck, then you should be OK.

Pop into your public library before hand and leaf through their copies of the Lonely Planet guides for good information about "dangers and annoyances".
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MingToo
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:59 pm

Quoting comorin (Reply 20):
You can get Happy Slapped in the UK, my friend's son was in the emergency room after an attack in Rugby.

We do have a problem with lower level violence in the UK (meaning not murder / shootings) and particularly alcohol related violence.

Sometimes they pick the wrong guy to target though

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...b-decked-by-boxer-115875-18619463/
 
JL418
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:27 pm

I think you'll have good time in Europe, violent crimes are less common than in the US as many other a.netters have so far pointed out. I'd love to give some small tips, regarding:
- Amsterdam: I got nearly robbed in the Red Light district, I can't remember where exactly because, well, I bet you know why. My only luck was the so-called thieves were more stoned than I was.
- Frankfurt: came there as a lad, and never got back. moreover my stay was quite short. However, I remember some epic fights at the Central stations, groups of punks against DB people. Quite scary I must admit but, that aside, the biggest danger in FRA is to be run over by somebody burning the lights.
- Paris: the Champs-élysées after midnight can be tricky, or whenever a big event is happening, like a march of people on strike. Yobbos love those moments, I've seen some attacking passer-bies. I have heard bad stories about most peripheral RER stations, but everyone I've been into was immaculate and guarded by police. Actually, the bit of banlieue I've seen - Val-de-Marne mostly - wasn't that bad looking at all.
 
Doona
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:09 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 15):
I tend to find out where the right wing and other conservative types hang out and go to those places.

You spend your vacations in golf club bars and church?      

  

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OA260
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:32 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 15):
Contrary to popular belief there are plenty of people like me in Europe. A couple of years ago a buddy and I were in the UK and one of the bars we went to was filled with rednecks like us

Sure there are all types of everything in most countries. The out of tourist areas are often the most eye opening.


I use common sense in every country I go to . Stay away from bad areas where ever they are. I feel as safe in Miami as I do in Manchester.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:24 am

Quoting Doona (Reply 25):
You spend your vacations in golf club bars and church

Yep.... Plus hanging around in sad bars with lots of rednecks.
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thomil13FRA
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:23 pm

Quoting JL418 (Reply 24):
- Frankfurt: came there as a lad, and never got back. moreover my stay was quite short. However, I remember some epic fights at the Central stations, groups of punks against DB people. Quite scary I must admit but, that aside, the biggest danger in FRA is to be run over by somebody burning the lights.

I don't know when you were in Frankfurt, but those fights sound like 1990s stuff, when the "Bahnhofsviertel" was a lot seedier than today. Today, most punks and drug addicts in Frankfurt wear suits and ties and work at Deutsche Bank, Commerzbank, etc.   

I recommend staying out of some of the suburbs of Frankfurt. Some areas suffer from a lot of vandalism and violence, especially on public transit. But as long as you make a detour around Dietzenbach and some parts north west of Frankfurt, you should be fine. Frankfurt's biggest atrocity is still it's food.   

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 9):
Question: Why are you looking forward to seeing Frankfurt? I hope it's just to quickly leave the city and either explore the countryside or more attractive cities?

Come on, show some kindness to FRA!! At least THEY managed to rebuild after the war, unlike Hanau or Offenbach   
That being said, Frankfurt is still not quite as cosmopolitan as it would like to see itself. Despite the large airport, banks, ECB, Frankfurt Stock Exchange, etc. The citry still feels like a couple of villages and small country towns glued together. In my eyes, Hamburg is Germany's only REAL cosmopolitan metropolis.
 
Elite
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:27 pm

I've heard of just too many stories of pickpockets in Italy, and in fact just last week there was a pretty serious case of breaking in in Italy involving one of my school mates. Anyone else share similar experiences?
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:30 pm

Take a Glock with you, and you'll be just fine  




























Only joking of course 
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falstaff
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:45 pm

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 30):
Take a Glock with you, and you'll be just fine

I wish I could. Those street punks with knives in the UK should get what they deserve. Pull a knife on somebody in Detroit you'll likely end up with a hole or two in ya'. When that tourist may be carrying a gun you might just think twice about robbing him.
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Elite
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:57 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 31):
Those street punks with knives in the UK should get what they deserve

Unfortunately many of those street punks are teenagers, maybe even 10, 11 years old or younger, and many who get caught are released with almost no punishment.
 
JL418
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:27 pm

Quoting Thomil13FRA (Reply 28):
I don't know when you were in Frankfurt, but those fights sound like 1990s stuff, when the "Bahnhofsviertel" was a lot seedier than today. Today, most punks and drug addicts in Frankfurt wear suits and ties and work at Deutsche Bank, Commerzbank, etc.

late Nineties indeed. I was touring Eastern Germany (starting from FRA which isn't Ost Deustchland at all, but you have to start from somewhere I guess) and I was surprised by the number of skinheads and punks I've seen hanging around. Elsewhere in Europe,I thought, they all were locked up or dead by overdose.

Quoting Elite (Reply 29):
I've heard of just too many stories of pickpockets in Italy, and in fact just last week there was a pretty serious case of breaking in in Italy involving one of my school mates. Anyone else share similar experiences?

I haven't been pickpocketed once, but a b********d nicked my bycicle just yesterday, leaving nothing but the padlock. I think the chances of being pickpocketed are high every tourist-loved city, everywhere in Europe. In Italy I'd stay on alert in big towns like Naples, Rome, Milan and perhaps Turin. When I've been in Asia - Japan, mostly - I was surprised by the carelessness with which locals managed their valuables, e.g. leaving bags on tables to signal "this place's taken" or leaving mobile phones where they could be easily nicked. Just use common sense: I wouldn't show a Canon EOS 5D or a golden Rolex in a rundown estate or among a bunch of gypsies, but I've seen tourists doing so.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 31):
I wish I could. Those street punks with knives in the UK should get what they deserve. Pull a knife on somebody in Detroit you'll likely end up with a hole or two in ya'. When that tourist may be carrying a gun you might just think twice about robbing him.

I know you're joking, but that way of thinking, if moving here to Europe, won't bring anything but more damage. Part of the new knife fashion which is plaguing Britain has much to do with influxes from the US. Kids listen to rappers claiming how's cool to carry "metal", bling and idiotic SUVs, and here you are. Once chavs dreamt of an Honda Civic Type R, now they want preposterous 4X4s, once they used to punch themselves 'til bleeding, now they simply stab each other. While, of course, covered in fake golden necklaces.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:15 pm

Quoting Thomil13FRA (Reply 28):
I recommend staying out of some of the suburbs of Frankfurt. Some areas suffer from a lot of vandalism and violence, especially on public transit. But as long as you make a detour around Dietzenbach and some parts north west of

The A66 between Frankfurt and Wiesbaden is kind of a divider, southwards to the river Main it's hell, northwards to the Taunus mountains its heaven.

Quoting Thomil13FRA (Reply 28):
Hamburg is Germany's only REAL cosmopolitan metropolis.

absolutely true

Quoting falstaff (Reply 31):
When that tourist may be carrying a gun you might just think twice

joking or not, don't even think of carrying a gun here.

Quoting Elite (Reply 32):
ortunately many of those street punks are teenagers, maybe even 10, 11 years old or younger, and many who get caught are released with almost no punishment.

under 14 there's no unishment. The kids are returned to the parents and that#s it. Child custody may be taken from the parents but there's little else the state can do.
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falstaff
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:24 pm

Quoting JL418 (Reply 33):
Part of the new knife fashion which is plaguing Britain has much to do with influxes from the US. Kids listen to rappers claiming how's cool to carry "metal", bling and idiotic SUVs, and here you are.

Rap music sucks and it has ruined a generation of young people. I always got a kick out of how kids from nice areas think the ghetto is a load of fun, like shown in rap videos. There is nothing like that. All I see in the hood is broken down people and nothing but garbage on the streets. Rap is nothing but fantasy and too many young people take it seriously. I would love to take a bunch of kids on a tour of the hood of Detroit and show them how "fun" the ghetto really is. There are no Bentleys rolling on 24s and girls shaking their ass on the corner. There are broke down 84 Chevys and ugly cracked out hags.

When I taught in Detroit one day I was talking with some kids about rap videos. I mentioned the video for "Money in the Bank" and asked the kids, who all lived in the ghettos of Detroit, if there were people and things in their neighborhood like those seen in the video. The video has a bunch of exotic cars, dancing girls, and guys flashing huge sums of money. The students all said that nothing in the video was like their neighborhood. They said that if a guy was flashing money like that in their neighborhood he would be shot and robbed.

I now teach in the south suburbs of Detroit and I still get the occasional wanabe thug. I just laugh.... I had some kid tell me that he hung out in Southwest Detroit. He was acting all tough, so I told him I had a friend who lives at Dragoon and Livernois, by the BP station. He went on about how he hung on that corning slinging drugs all the time. I told him he was full of crap because Dragoon and Livernois NEVER cross, they run paralell to each other. He shut his load mouth and never talk tough the rest of the year. I had another kid tell me that he was a member of the "Joy Road Crew" and I just laughed and said that was impossible because he was white. Back when I taught in Detroit I had many "Joy Boyz" and I once joked around that maybe I could join their gang. I was told that no white people were allowed.
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JL418
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:46 pm

falstaff,

you wrote about kids living in wealthy families playing the gangstas, didn't you? The difference with what I was talking about is that young lads stabbing each other in Peckham or South Acton aren't rich kids pretending to be Tupac, but poor folks, who listen to 50 cent on a Tv and subsequently think that carrying a gun, or more modestly a kitchen knife shoplifted at Sainsbury's, is cool.
And since British lads fight each other a lot, and do the same gang things you wrote about, knifes and guns get in. About 30 people under 25 were stabbed to death last year, if I remember well, in London alone. That's a bloody lot, at least for us here. And it has become like that since weapons have become so popular.
 
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CrimsonNL
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:35 pm

Quoting MingToo (Reply 14):
Don't leave plate on your food in the Netherlands, it's considered wasteful

I have yet to meet a single Dutchman who will feel offended if you don't clear your plate...
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
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falstaff
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:44 pm

Quoting JL418 (Reply 36):
The difference with what I was talking about is that young lads stabbing each other in Peckham or South Acton aren't rich kids pretending to be Tupac, but poor folks, who listen to 50 cent on a Tv and subsequently think that carrying a gun, or more modestly a kitchen knife shoplifted at Sainsbury's, is cool.

The real problem is not the weapon, but the total lack of morality. Murdering people is wrong and is already against the law. When there is no respect for the law or the rights of others you will find violence. For example. I carry my gun around to a lot of places and say I come upon a store that has a sign that says "no concealed firearms allowed". I usually put it back in my car and obey the wishes of the store owner. However the guy who is going to murder the store owner while robbing him isn't going to say "Oh I was going to kill a guy, but I can't carry my gun in there...." He just does it anyway. The presense of the weapon means nothing, the values of the person does.

We need to figure out a way to fight the hip hop lifestyle and get through to young people that thug life doesn't pay.
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Rj111
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:16 pm

I've travelled across most of Europe and stayed in many hostels. Never ever had a problem with theft or violence.

As a tourist you can't afford to be stupid anywhere, but that's just part of the adventure. Personally i prefer hostels to hotels -You can meet many like-minded people.

Enjoy your trip   
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:35 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 8):
I see you live in Novi and that is not exactly rough. I didn't know you even had shady people in Novi.

I've visited Novi eight times in the past year to visit my girlfriend and never once felt unsafe in any part of Novi. Novi is a very "well-off" city as are most of the areas surrounding it. Ironically, my girlfriend's exit is 8 Mile but she's nowhere near the "Slim Shady" end of 8 mile. A few of the Red Wings players live in Novi. I have gotten nervous driving along I-96 going into Detroit though when heading to Comerica, Greektown, Hockeytown, etc.You just pray over and over "Oh God please don't break down". Last summer we were heading to a Red Wings game at Joe Louis Arena and accidentally got off one exit to early. The neighborhoods looked just like those in Gran Torino.
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n229nw
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:37 pm

Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 5):
Sounds a bit racist, but watch out for gypsies and other groups that will ask you a question like "do you speak English" while another member of the group takes your wallet or something else.
Quoting Mudboy (Reply 6):
stay away from the Gypsy families, they are pros
Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 10):
in Portugal, my parents always tell me to watch for them. They will take you for a quick 'ride' if you are not careful - they also tend to run the majority of flea markets.
Quoting JL418 (Reply 33):
among a bunch of gypsies

I DON'T LIKE the suggest delete button because I think things should be discussed openly. But mods, how long would these replies have lasted if they were from people saying "In America, watch out for the blackies, they will mug you, etc."?

There is some confusion since "gypsy" in the UK can also mean people who are nomadic irrespective of race, but in most of Europe, "Gypsy" refers only to Roma, a race of people, coming originally from India, and in fact, is a less nice word than Roma, since it is based on an old mis-perception that they came from Egypt.

There are certainly large-scale begging and petty crime rings run by Roma, especially the Vlax Roma who were enslaved in Romania (Roma and Romania have nothing to do with each other linguistically, it is just a coincidence that there are so many Roma in Romania) until about the time the American slaves were freed, and who (perhaps partly as a consequence) of all the Romany groups are the most separate from the rest of society and mainstream education, keeping ritual purity laws, wearing long skirts, etc. Some groups of Vlax Roma hang around train stations and squares across Europe. Sadly, these most "stereotypical" Roma are also the most visibly "Gypsy" to non-Roma, so that perpetuates bad stereotypes. However, most Roma do not dress like movie "gypsies" and do not beg with kids.

Instead, in Eastern Europe most Roma are easlily identifiable to the the Europeans who live in the same country with them simply by their skin color, and then secondarily by having slightly different dialects. Aside from some of the Romanian groups, and certain groups in Western Europe, they are not nomadic, but usually live in settlements or segregated urban ghettos (housing projects) where there has been white flight. Many are assimilated too, especially if they are lucky to be light enough that they can "pass" for white.

I ask everyone to remember that most Roma are not criminals. And they are usually treated like dirt and face MASSIVE discrimination in housing, schools, and the employment.

Please treat each person as an individual. I say this as someone who is married to a Gypsy woman from Eastern Europe, and who has met hundreds of Roma in different countries through her friends and family. I say this as someone whose kids have been threatened on the playground when in Eastern Europe because of their skin color as Gypsies, and told that "dirty blacksnout criminal gypsies" were not welcome on the playground by other parents there. And as someone whose kids have been told they can't touch the toys at the doctors' office because of their skin color, and...and...and... (we adopted full Romany kids, so they are pretty dark).

Meanwhile, I would advise any traveler to avoid any group of people who are begging together, especially kids, and any group of young teenagers hanging out on street corners that look as if they are looking for trouble.

[Edited 2010-07-27 15:48:53]
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Rj111
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:46 pm

Quoting n229nw (Reply 41):
But mods, how long would these replies have lasted if they were from people saying "In America, watch out for the blackies, they will mug you, etc."?

PC gone mad. It's decent advice, there's no point beating around the bush.
 
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n229nw
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:13 pm

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 42):
PC gone mad. It's decent advice, there's no point beating around the bush.

You got mugged by black people in America? And you think that is because of their race?

I don't think that's what you mean...But still I call BS.

If you think it is important advice, then it's about how you word it. You can word things in a derogatory way that lumps people together, or you can explain a situation and treat people as groups with respect. The first encourages a vicious cycle. Read any psychology study: if you treat people like you think they are s**t, they will act like s**t.

Furthermore, telling a visitor to stay away from "gypsies" is NOT even really good travel advice. Good travel advice is "stay away from begging and pickpocket rackets. Here is how they work...etc." Telling someone to stay away from an ethnic group limits their experience of the places they go. They might miss out on some great music [the OP should go to some Gypsy music venues!], some interesting cultural exchange, even some possible friends.

[Edited 2010-07-27 16:15:44]
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Superfly
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:42 am

Quoting comorin (Reply 20):
You also have roving bands of skinheads that my friends in Dusseldorf warn me about. The scariest place I have been to however is Moscow. Something in the air...
Quoting JL418 (Reply 33):
I was surprised by the number of skinheads and punks I've seen hanging around. Elsewhere in Europe,I thought, they all were locked up or dead by overdose.
Quoting n229nw (Reply 41):
I say this as someone whose kids have been threatened on the playground when in Eastern Europe because of their skin color as Gypsies, and told that "dirty blacksnout criminal gypsies" were not welcome on the playground by other parents there. And as someone whose kids have been told they can't touch the toys at the doctors' office because of their skin color, and...and...and... (we adopted full Romany kids, so they are pretty dark).

The skinhead problem and all the violence associated with it is really bad in Eastern Europe. I encountered a few on my brief stay in Moscow. I don't hear too much about it in Western Europe but there is a growing right-wing movement in Western Europe. So far they aren't as violent as those in Eastern Europe. That is where skinheads beat and murder darker skin people on an almost daily basis.
Detroitflyer shouldn't have any problems in Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels or Frankfurt.

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 39):
Personally i prefer hostels to hotels -You can meet many like-minded people.

In Europe? Yes but not in Asia or Latin America. I much prefer a hotel.
I've stayed in a few hostels in Greece and I really enjoyed it. I met a lot of neat travellers beginning or ending their trip in Europe.
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Rj111
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:55 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 44):
In Europe? Yes but not in Asia or Latin America. I much prefer a hotel.

Can't say i've done it myself, but i had a friend who did a year long round the world trip and he told me the hostels were often better in these countries.

Quoting n229nw (Reply 43):
You got mugged by black people in America? And you think that is because of their race?

No, sorry, i was just referring to your post, particularly about the gypsies - which i think is good advice. I realise the bit i quoted was a bit misleading.
 
Superfly
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:05 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 45):
Can't say i've done it myself, but i had a friend who did a year long round the world trip and he told me the hostels were often better in these countries.

I would imagine the hostels would be nicer in Latin America and Asia over Europe. You'll find interesting people in hostels no matter what country you're in.
I was thinking in terms of price. Hotels in Europe are expensive and a nice hotel would be very expensive. Nice hotels in Asia and Latin America (with a few exceptions) tend to be a lot cheaper than Europe or even the USA.
A hostel in London cost about the same as a 4-star hotel in Bangkok.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Rj111
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:13 am

Yeah, he mentioned Cambodia/Vietnam were the only 2 places he stayed at a hotel, and the reason was he had a huge room with Sky TV and all the trimmings for about £5 per night.
 
Superfly
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:17 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 47):
Yeah, he mentioned Cambodia/Vietnam were the only 2 places he stayed at a hotel, and the reason was he had a huge room with Sky TV and all the trimmings for about £5 per night.

WOW!
I need ot make it over to Cambodia and Vietnam.
That is sweet!
Bring back the Concorde
 
Rj111
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RE: Violent Crime USA Vs Europe

Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:40 am

I just spoke to him on MSN and he said it was Laos and Cambodia that had really cheap hotels. Vietnam was "moderately" expensive ($10 a night for a hostel).

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