propilot83
Topic Author
Posts: 618
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 2:41 am

Unemployment Extensions Update

Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:37 pm

Well it looks like its finally time to pass the extension of unemployment benefits. What a sad thing that many Americans had to wait week after week for the bill to pass very soon! Hope is on the way.....once again, you can finally exhale!   

http://all247news.com/federal-unempl...2010-on-the-brink-of-passage/2068/
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:10 am

How about a little thanks to the folks with jobs... the ones paying the bill ..remember them ?. You made the choice to be in a job that was vulnerable ... you failed to see the writing on the wall ... and we workers pick up the bill. Not to mention your spending our emergency backup fund that most likely you didn't pay into in the first place ......  

There is nothing free in life .... you have to either earn it , or steal it from someone ....

I remember a time when being on welfare was a disgrace ... now you are your owne special political class .. complete with your own party and president !. Oh they love it so much ... they pay you for your vote ...spend it wisely.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:17 am

Frankly, I dont know how much longer this can go on.
We've already extended benefits previously for up to 99-weeks and at some point enough has to be enough, Sure there might be some folks that are truly desperate, however on the whole near two years of endless benefits has to lead to incredible amount of fraud and waste along with huge pool of folks just riding things out instead of truly looking for work.

Additionally, I also have been a proponent of some required service in return for unemployment benefits.
Maybe 10-hours per week for each 40-hours in unemployment benefits. Let beneficiaries sweep streets, clean up parks and beaches, paint facilities as needed etc.
Lets make use of this pool of folks for societal benefit in return somehow.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:29 am

I'm sorry... but unemployed for 6, 8, 10,12 months!? What are these people doing? Laziness has no bounds, apparently.

I'm actually ok with temporary unemployment hand-outs. It helps maintain a level of stability in the community, and in families. But the key word is temporary. When we have people living off of these hand-outs, and choosing to spend their time going on vacations, or sitting at home, it's a major problem. Benefits for 3 months. Max.
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5258
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:43 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Additionally, I also have been a proponent of some required service in return for unemployment benefits.
Maybe 10-hours per week for each 40-hours in unemployment benefits. Let beneficiaries sweep streets, clean up parks and beaches, paint facilities as needed etc.
Lets make use of this pool of folks for societal benefit in return somehow.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
I'm sorry... but unemployed for 6, 8, 10,12 months!?

Have you seen the economy lately? In some areas with 15% unemployment, finding a new job will take a long time...particularly if you are older or low-skilled. Of course, the low skill part you can fix....can't do much about the age discrimination.
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:53 am

Quoting propilot83 (Thread starter):
Hope is on the way.....once again, you can finally exhale!

You can't exhale until you get a job.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Additionally, I also have been a proponent of some required service in return for unemployment benefits.
Maybe 10-hours per week for each 40-hours in unemployment benefits. Let beneficiaries sweep streets, clean up parks and beaches, paint facilities as needed etc.
Lets make use of this pool of folks for societal benefit in return somehow.

No problems there.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
Benefits for 3 months. Max.

Three is a bit short with the way things are at the moment - I'd go with six. But anyone should be able to get some sort of job in six months. I'd even be okay with reduced benefits beyond six months so long as the recipients were doing something to make some money for themselves, even if it isn't as much as they need to support themselves or a family.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:05 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Additionally, I also have been a proponent of some required service in return for unemployment benefits.

     
I don't see a problem with giving people unemployment benefits as long as they truely need them. But there is no such thing as a free ride (well, there shouldn't be anyway.)

Another thing I've seen is people thinking they are "above" some jobs. They think that ______ is a job that is not for them, it's for other people. Well, when you're family is depending on you, any job you can get is "for you."
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
propilot83
Topic Author
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:19 am

Now folks let me make some things clear. Congress is NOT adding any additional weeks of unemployment benefits, they are ONLY extending the filing deadlines in order to go on to another tier of extensions. The maximum is still and will be only 99 weeks and no more.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 1):
How about a little thanks to the folks with jobs... the ones paying the bill ..remember them ?. You made the choice to be in a job that was vulnerable ... you failed to see the writing on the wall ... and we workers pick up the bill. Not to mention your spending our emergency backup fund that most likely you didn't pay into in the first place ......

I actually did pay into unemployment insurance while I was working since 2003. Here watch the whitehouse.gov video Obama gave today, I just want people to know that I am not speaking out of my own mind only, here just watch what Obama had to say today, please, thank you.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/...te-help-our-laid-friends-neighbors
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:58 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
I'm sorry... but unemployed for 6, 8, 10,12 months!? What are these people doing? Laziness has no bounds, apparently.

Before I landed my current job over a year ago, I was unemployed for nearly two and a half years. What was I doing? Applying for just about any job I could find.

Today, depending on who you get your information from, there are anywhere from 5 to 15 applicants for every job opening (on average). Don't get me wrong, there are people milking the system. But to cast everyone on unemployment in that light is just...unfair.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:13 am

Ha oh boy I see where this thread is going. In fact, I think there was a similar thread by the same poster earlier today that... disappeared....

I do see both sides of this argument, though I am the first to say "tough luck is tough luck." I think 90% of unemployed people could have prevented where they are today. Paid attention in school a bit more, not smoking that blunt, picked a better, more promising job, gone to college, gone/go in the military...

I have yet to run across anyone (I'm sure they're out there though) that want to strip all benefits, but most of us know good people end up jobless. Good or not, and I am not one to judge you propilot83, but can you be held accountable for what you get? If you get 99 weeks, is it really unreasonable to require X weeks of an "area beautification job" for 99 more weeks of benefits? (Cities these days are filthy!) I won't be one to judge how anyone got unemployed, but it is only right for them to kind of pay back what they receive, what do yall think?
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:26 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 11):
but it is only right for them to kind of pay back what they receive, what do yall think?

I don't think that is unreasonable at all.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
sv7887
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Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:34 am

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 10):
Before I landed my current job over a year ago, I was unemployed for nearly two and a half years. What was I doing? Applying for just about any job I could find.

Same thing with me. My job was wiped out when the economy went to hell back in November 2008. My firm laid off half of their workforce.

All of the Consulting and Market Research firms got hit hard. It took me just over a year to get a job, most employers weren't even willing to discuss me taking a lower level job. Even though I got interviews, I got the "overqualified" tag god knows how many times. I sent hundreds of applications for anything even remotely relevant to what I could do in a profession, unpaid internships, contract, part time you name it. Used agencies, networking, etc.

And I had three years of good strategy consulting experience with two relevant degrees from good schools. Don't lump us into the same boat as those who are willing to coast on unemployment. Given what I pay in federal taxes every year on my performance bonuses I don't have a problem with those who are truly down on their luck getting a lifeline. Given the unemployment rate is near 10% and likely closer to 20% (factoring in discouraged workers, underemployed, etc) it's ugly out there.

The average job search right now takes about 9 months. And on average UI only pays $325 a week which isn't a lot. Plus if you're past the 70 odd week time frame, you are not allowed to look solely in your field of work and you MUST turn in your work search log every week to get benefits.
 
JakeOrion
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:55 am

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 10):
ut to cast everyone on unemployment in that light is just...unfair.

How about those of us who were denied UI? My ex-company backstabbed me and I was denied UI benefits, and contesting didn't work out to my favor either (in CA). Been without a job for 3 months and counting now, with no UI benefits.

Off topic, but I called it on the Obama election thread I would be jobless in less than two years, and I was right.
Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
 
UH60FtRucker
Posts: 3252
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:15 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:02 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 4):
Have you seen the economy lately? In some areas with 15% unemployment, finding a new job will take a long time...particularly if you are older or low-skilled. Of course, the low skill part you can fix....can't do much about the age discrimination.

Of course I've seen the economy. Today is day 544, and we are still awaiting the that promised great recovery. Meanwhile, the clock keeps ticking.

And I am sorry, I simply reject the notion that there is absolutely no job opportunities for 99 weeks. And I will be honest with you, until moments ago, I was completely ignorant that the benefits extend to NINETY NINE weeks. That fact is revolting.

I can't believe someone would sit around for NINETY NINE weeks, "trying" to get a job. I suspect they refused to look for jobs "beneath them." And why should they, when they have the tit of the government to live off of.

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 10):
Before I landed my current job over a year ago, I was unemployed for nearly two and a half years. What was I doing? Applying for just about any job I could find.

As you know, I've always respected you, and thought of you as a good guy. But two and half years!? I am definitely not privy to all the details, but that is just not right. I refuse, absolutely refuse, to believe that it was anything but a monster of your own creation.
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:11 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
choosing to spend their time going on vacations, or sitting at home, i
Quoting sv7887 (Reply 13):
And on average UI only pays $325 a week which isn't a lot.

At sv7887   

Also, just about every penny of UI goes right back in to the economy. That money is used for rent/mortgage, utilities, food, gas and other essential needs. Not sure where people get the idea that people are taking vacations and "being lazy". Not sure what kind of vacation anyone can take when they only get $325 a week.

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 10):
Don't get me wrong, there are people milking the system. But to cast everyone on unemployment in that light is just...unfair.

  

A vast majority of those on UI are looking for work. The neo-cons will make any excuse to paint all social services as 'hand outs'.
In order to recieve UI, you have to have had a job and it's for a limited time. UI is calculated based on how much you earn and the highest rate of compensation isn't very high.
The neo-cons spoonfed garbage by right-wing media need to understand that there is a HUGE difference between UI and AFDC.

Quoting sv7887 (Reply 13):
Don't lump us into the same boat as those who are willing to coast on unemployment. Given what I pay in federal taxes every year on my performance bonuses I don't have a problem with those who are truly down on their luck getting a lifeline. Given the unemployment rate is near 10% and likely closer to 20% (factoring in discouraged workers, underemployed, etc) it's ugly out there.

  
Glad you can understand this.
Keep in mind, those that coast on unemployment perform poorly on job interviews because they haven't been out pounding the pavement looking for work. They are only hurting themselves. Those that are constantly looking, updating their resumes and going to interviews are much sharper than those that are coasting and therefore more likely to find a job sooner than the ones who are coasting.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 1):
You made the choice to be in a job that was vulnerable ... you failed to see the writing on the wall ...

Now that is a load of horse$h!t!
You're basically saying it's his fault that he's out of work. Are you saying that the 20million+ people that's lost their job over the past 2 years somehow 'deserved' to lose their job?
Propilot83 may not be the best example of your average UI recipient and I am in no way defending his activities he's brought up in previous threads about this topic.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Additionally, I also have been a proponent of some required service in return for unemployment benefits.

Ok so let's see. A Midwest 717 pilot loses his job one day and the next day he has to scoop up dog poop at the dog pound in order to receive UI benefits?
I'd rather he spend his time looking for work. Ideally in the profession he is trained to do.
I see no need to punish those who lost their job. That's punishment as it is.
Community service should be reserved for small petty violations such as unpaid parking tickets and minor moving violations.

[Edited 2010-07-19 20:19:11]
Bring back the Concorde
 
sv7887
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:19 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 13):
But two and half years!? I am definitely not privy to all the details, but that is just not right. I refuse, absolutely refuse, to believe that it was anything but a monster of your own creation.

Half of the people unemployed right now are past 6 months, and the long term unemployed have a stigma attached to them. Age discrimination is rampant amongst this group (I believe most of the long term unemployed are older workers) so it's not completely unreasonable to see years of unemployment. Skills degrade, people lose confidence, and have to deal with the stigmas attached on top of it. I knew a very smart Ph.D engineer who remained unemployed for 2 yrs, despite every effort to get a job. He was from India's IIT so hardly the type to sit around.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 13):
I can't believe someone would sit around for NINETY NINE weeks, "trying" to get a job. I suspect they refused to look for jobs "beneath them." And why should they, when they have the tit of the government to live off of.

Employers are VERY hesitant to hire overqualified people for their positions, knowing full well they'll leave once the economy improves. I've had that told to me on several occasions by HR managers at very reputable companies. And many hiring managers are reluctant to hire someone as qualified (or even more so) than they are for a position below them.

It's easy to label the long term unemployed, but the majority of them are desperate to get anything. Until a few months ago I was one of them. I lost a fortune on "trying" to get a job as you say. $400 a week isn't much of an incentive to sit on your ass when you made near six figures before. Even working as a data clerk pays more than unemployment, so there was every incentive for me to "try" to get a job. Massachusetts is picking up faster than the rest of the country, but that didn't start to happen until the early part of this year. We're at 9% unemployment with private job creation finally leading the way.

Just took at the tepid job creation numbers. They are pathetic. Banks aren't lending, people aren't spending, investors are parking their money in bonds and money market funds, and as a result the economy isn't picking up...It will be a long time before we get back into normal territory (5.5 % ish unemployment)
 
ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:23 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 13):
but that is just not right.

You can say that again! I lost count after 1000 job applications.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 13):
I refuse, absolutely refuse, to believe that it was anything but a monster of your own creation.

Maybe, maybe not. Fact is I applied for jobs that ranged from dishwasher to flight attendant and just about everything in between, so it wasn't like I was just sitting around picking my nose. Landing a job these days is more about luck than skill.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:29 am

Quoting sv7887 (Reply 15):
Employers are VERY hesitant to hire overqualified people for their positions, knowing full well they'll leave once the economy improves.

Very true.
I've been told that before in those exact words before.
Even though I have a degree, I remember applying for a job as a driver for a beverage distribution company several years ago. I wasn't ashamed to accept work that was 'beneath me' but the interviewer had issue with me having a degree.
He brought up the fact that I had degree 4 times in the interview. It was as if he was intimidated by me. I notice a lot of blue-collar workers have a chip on their shoulder when they have to work with someone who has a degree or going to college. They get very intimidated.
Bring back the Concorde
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:39 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
Very true.
I've been told that before in those exact words before.
Even though I have a degree, I remember applying for a job as a driver for a beverage distribution company several years ago. I wasn't ashamed to accept work that was 'beneath me' but the interviewer had issue with me having a degree.
He brought up the fact that I had degree 4 times in the interview. It was as if he was intimidated by me. I notice a lot of blue-collar workers have a chip on their shoulder when they have to work with someone who has a degree or going to college. They get very intimidated.

Happens pretty much everywhere. I was interviewed at a Consulting company about 9 months ago. First two interviews were with older managers and the last was with a twenty something blonde who'd had been working for only 2 yrs there. She saw I went to better schools, was more experienced, and gave me the third degree throughout the interview. Of course I didn't get the job. I got my MSc thrown in my face repeatedly when I tried to apply for jobs "below" my level. Anything from office clerical to even Market Research (which only pays a little less).

One guy told me plainly, "We can't offer you this job, you're just too qualified and ambitious" Another said rejection, "You did superbly on the interview, but we just don't have a job that matches your background" (That's generic bullshit for "We don't want to hire you period". That's not to say I performed well on all of my interviews (in fact I screwed up 2 out of the 12 I had)

People are judgmental and like to typecast people. If you don't fit in their pre assigned box, then no matter the qualifications or reality, you don't get a job.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:41 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
Ok so let's see. A Midwest 717 pilot loses his job one day and the next day he has to scoop up dog poop at the dog pound in order to receive UI benefits?
I'd rather he spend his time looking for work. Ideally in the profession he is trained to do.

I see nothing wrong or shameful with making people partially work for their benefits.

Anyhow as part of UI benefits one is required to do job searches.The remaining 30-hours of the week the person can do just that.
Dedicating 10-hours of time for somesort of social benefit is hardly asking for much and certainly a small benefit society can earn back in reward for the continued IU payments.
I really don't see it in any other light then the government hiring you part time, instead of you being fully unemployed.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:41 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
Ok so let's see. A Midwest 717 pilot loses his job one day and the next day he has to scoop up dog poop at the dog pound in order to receive UI benefits?
I'd rather he spend his time looking for work. Ideally in the profession he is trained to do.

No one is saying they should spend all their time performing services, just a few hours per week.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
I notice a lot of blue-collar workers have a chip on their shoulder when they have to work with someone who has a degree or going to college. They get very intimidated.

   I have, depending on the job, omitted my post secondary education. for this very reason.

My degree played a part in how I lost my previous job. Long story short, my immediate supervisor felt threatened by my education and skills and found a way to get rid of me, despite me being on record as not even wanting her job.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:05 am

Quoting sv7887 (Reply 18):

That is really screwed up and it happens far too often.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
I see nothing wrong or shameful with making people partially work for their benefits.

I see nothing wrong with those unemployed spending their time looking for work which is a full-time job in its self.
Leave community service for minor violations and unpaid citations.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
Dedicating 10-hours of time for somesort of social benefit is hardly asking for much and certainly a small benefit society can earn back in reward for the continued IU payments.

That is a waste of time & money for the recipient. They do have to drive to these 'work-sites' which requires gas/bus fare, etc. When you're not working, every penny counts. That would really suck for someone having to spend some of their small $325 per week check on gas to go 'volunteer'.
Just because someone isn't working doesn't mean they have an infinate amount of time to goof off and have fun. It's not like it's a paid vacation.

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 20):
I have, depending on the job, omitted my post secondary education. for this very reason.

It's sad that people have to be ashamed of their skills in order to get a low wage job. Good luck in finding work!
Bring back the Concorde
 
zotan
Posts: 582
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:42 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:07 am

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 20):
No one is saying they should spend all their time performing services, just a few hours per week.

An admirable idea, but most likely far too difficult to implement and enforce. The bureaucracy that would be needed to supervise these temporary workers would be enormous and thus costly. Is that something you want?
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:16 am

Quoting ZOTAN (Reply 22):
most likely far too difficult to implement and enforce. The bureaucracy that would be needed to supervise these temporary workers would be enormous and thus costly. Is that something you want?

Good observation.
There aren't even enough UI operators to handle calls of existing claims. The states don't have the budgets to create a department and hire staff just to make sure someone took out the trash at the local park or scooped up dog poop at the dog pound. Creating another government bureaucracy just to make unemployed people feel small and worthless is a real dumb idea.
Bring back the Concorde
 
ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:25 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
It's sad that people have to be ashamed of their skills in order to get a low wage job.

Oh absolutely. I'm proud of my education, "but ya gotta do what ya gotta do." Fortunately, my current employer sees value in my education, even if my current position doesn't require it.

Quoting ZOTAN (Reply 22):
Is that something you want?

It really doesn't have to be that complicated. Of course, some bureaucrat somewhere is going to want it to be that complicated because, well, that's what they do.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:28 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
That is a waste of time & money for the recipient. They do have to drive to these 'work-sites' which requires gas/bus fare, etc. When you're not working, every penny counts. That would really suck for someone having to spend some of their small $325 per week check on gas to go 'volunteer'.

For starters this would be nothing unlike a person getting a part time job on their own. If they had a $10/hr job for 10 hours that income of $100 would be deducted from their IU earnings.
So things like cost to drive etc, is a cost people have to cover regardless of IU or not and hardly a valid argument in this case.

This labor that the government could come up with (possibly in cooperation with employers or things like schools looking for odd help) is no different then a person having received part time job on their own. Instead of them having to scramble on their own and become the sandwich maker at Subway, the government hands them a ready to go job for lets say 10-hours per week.

Quoting ZOTAN (Reply 22):
The bureaucracy that would be needed to supervise these temporary workers would be enormous and thus costly. Is that something you want?

Hey bureaucracy loves bureaucracy. They can probably employ more people this way on a full time basis which itself could be a positive for the economy.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:53 am

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 24):
Fortunately, my current employer sees value in my education, even if my current position doesn't require it.

That's awesome!

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 25):
So things like cost to drive etc, is a cost people have to cover regardless of IU or not and hardly a valid argument in this case.

It's a very valid argument. That small amount of money they get from UI is to cover their basic needs and should not be wasted on transportation cost to go' volunteer'.
Also the $10 an hour job should be for those low-skilled workers and high school students. Not for laid off airline pilots and engineers.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 25):
Hey bureaucracy loves bureaucracy. They can probably employ more people this way on a full time basis which itself could be a positive for the economy.

You mean increase the size of government?
Bring back the Concorde
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:14 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:59 am

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 24):
It really doesn't have to be that complicated. Of course, some bureaucrat somewhere is going to want it to be that complicated because, well, that's what they do.

Agreed, given how some continue to claim that our infrastructure is literally falling down all around us, there should be plenty of those "shovel ready" jobs in everyones community to be worked on.

Sadly, somehow the 33 billion the President says this bill will cost cannot somehow be taken out of the stimulus bill of which there are hundreds of billions left to dole out. Perhaps it's because they can't be sure all the money will go to democrats in good standing?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:15 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
It's a very valid argument. That small amount of money they get from UI is to cover their basic needs and should not be wasted on transportation cost to go' volunteer'.

Its not volunteer work, its a job that is provided for them. No different then they finding their own job and spending money on transportation reaching.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
Also the $10 an hour job should be for those low-skilled workers and high school students. Not for laid off airline pilots and engineers.

Listen America's economy is changing. Look the auto industry and the travails it has experienced.
So If its between having no job, or taking a $10 job, the $10 job is infinitely better income then $0.

I don't know what your outlook is, but mine is that certain jobs and industries will never come back. So one better either go out and make a job for oneself via ingenuity, or be ready to potentially take jobs that one might have never imagined before having as we have a glut in experience in too many fields.

So in the OP'er case maybe putting aside those dreams pilothood and getting various service sector jobs might be the more practical and immediately beneficial path.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
You mean increase the size of government?

If it means developing a framework for people to earn their continued IU sure why not.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:33 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
its a job that is provided for them.

...and taking away a job from someone else who's skill set may only be a low-wage, low-skilled job.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
Listen America's economy is changing. Look the auto industry and the travails it has

experienced.I don't know what your outlook is, but mine is that certain jobs and industries will never come back.

The airline industry is never gonna comeback?   
The number of orders for the 787, A350, 777 and A330 say otherwise. Good times are ahead for aviation and I see no point in making a laid off airline pilot waste his/her take volunteering in order to receive a small UI check to keep a roof over their head.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
So one better either go out and make a job for oneself via ingenuity

Which is a great idea and many have done that. No need for them to be sweeping any playgrounds. Leave that to those with excessive parking tickets and minor moving violations.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
If it means developing a framework for people to earn their continued IU sure why not.

It's really a moot point because it isn't going to happen.
The vast majority on UI want to work and they eventually find work. I am troubled by the premise that you and a few other members have in assuming that everyone who is out of work needs to be monitored and wants to milk the system. That is really absurd.
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DocLightning
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:39 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
I'm sorry... but unemployed for 6, 8, 10,12 months!? What are these people doing? Laziness has no bounds, apparently.

Most of them are frantically trying to get jobs.

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 8):

Today, depending on who you get your information from, there are anywhere from 5 to 15 applicants for every job opening (on average). Don't get me wrong, there are people milking the system. But to cast everyone on unemployment in that light is just...unfair.

The job I currently have had no less than 34 applicants. And I'm a doctor. Yes, even we docs are in rough straits right now as far as job availability goes, and one of the reason that it's so hard to become a doctor is because we try to keep demand high.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
LAXintl
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:11 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
The airline industry is never gonna comeback?

Employment in the US airline sector continues to decline. Here are some numbers from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics of year end employment figures. (both FTEs and part-time)

2009: 563,419
2005: 611,007
2000: 753,614
1995: 810,363

Things like technology and other efficiency leaps has lead to massive labor decline even while the industry has basically grown in numbers of passengers transported and flights operated. We do much more, with a lot less bodies today.
I fully expect such structural changes to continue.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
I am troubled by the premise that you and a few other members have in assuming that everyone who is out of work needs to be monitored and wants to milk the system.

I believe one of the central premises for IU is monitoring claimants, via verification of on going job searches, schooling etc.
I'm told (at least in CA) the bi-weekly claim forms require parties to submit proof of their efforts and status.

So yes the principle of monitoring of all recipients already occurs to some degree, however as with other government benefits there surely is a portion of folks that game the system.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Superfly
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:32 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 31):
Employment in the US airline sector continues to decline. Here are some numbers from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics of year end employment figures. (both FTEs and part-time)

2009: 563,419
2005: 611,007
2000: 753,614
1995: 810,363

...and how many of those are actual pilots?
My guess is that most of those jobs lost were customer service reps and airline office clerks. Many of them went on to do similar duties at financial institutions, law offices and other industries.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 31):
Things like technology and other efficiency leaps has lead to massive labor decline even while the industry has basically grown in numbers of passengers transported and flights operated. We do much more, with a lot less bodies today.
I fully expect such structural changes to continue.

So a job at Subway is the next logical step for an airline pilot.  
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 31):
I'm told (at least in CA) the bi-weekly claim forms require parties to submit proof of their efforts and status.

So yes the principle of monitoring of all recipients already occurs to some degree,

That is very true, thus no need to add another bureaucracy on top of an existing bureaucracy.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 31):
however as with other government benefits there surely is a portion of folks that game the system.

A small minority that isn't even worth going after. Benefits do run out. It's the disabilities and AFDC that is the target of those that want to milk the system. It pays more and is for a longer time. Those on UI aren't of the lazy deadbeat variant.

[Edited 2010-07-19 23:35:53]
Bring back the Concorde
 
LAXintl
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:45 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 32):
...and how many of those are actual pilots?

Active aircarrier pilot positions in the US.

2009: 72,627
2005: 76,078
2000: 80,186
1995: 78,292

Quoting Superfly (Reply 32):
So a job at Subway is the next logical step for an airline pilot.

It maybe. A job is better than no job. Having the attitude that a certain job is "below them" is not right.

Waiting for a job to open up in their immediate qualified field might be a hopeless venture, so its time to look around.
If it comes to putting food on the table, that Subway job looks mighty better than earning a big 0.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Superfly
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:01 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 33):
It maybe. A job is better than no job. Having the attitude that a certain job is "below them" is not right.

Waiting for a job to open up in their immediate qualified field might be a hopeless venture, so its time to look around.
If it comes to putting food on the table, that Subway job looks mighty better than earning a big 0.

So what about those who's skill set only for jobs such as Subway?

As me, ShyFlyer and sv7887 pointed out, people with skills and degrees are often turned away for jobs that are "below them". When I was out of work, I applied for jobs that were "below me" and was given a lot flack for it in the interviews.
There are a lot of skilled people that are willing to accept work that is "below them" but those hiring managers don't want them. Many of those blue-collar hiring managers have regrets about not earning a degree themselves and love to through other people's degree in their face.
You see again, you are too quick to assume those out of work are lazy or 'too good' for some jobs and somehow deserve their misfortune. That is not the case.
I have no problem with people who lost their jobs receive UI until they find another job. Forcing them to do manual labor to receive a small UI check is ridiculous.
By the way, many retail jobs are shutting down too so that job at Subway probably wouldn't be available anyway. Not to mention, if there was an opening at a Subway, the hiring manger is going to want someone with fast-food experience, not a laid off airline pilot or engineer.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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falstaff
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:03 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 1):
You made the choice to be in a job that was vulnerable ...


Not always. For example: 21 teachers lost jobs in my school district this year, some of which were there 7-10 years. why? the sagging Michigan economy has people leaving. There are less students enrolled in the district next year, 88 less just at the high school. A lot of people who think they have job that is always going to be safe and that isn't usually true. A buddy of mine was a state auditor for Illinois horse tracks. The law in Illinois says the tracks must have an on site state auditor to oversee the tracks, but they cut the budget and he was laid off. The law says he should be working, but the state can ignore its own laws. The tracks in Illinois are now operating in violation of state law, and the law is ignored because the state can't afford to comply.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 4):
a new job will take a long time...particularly if you are older or low-skilled. Of course, the low skill part you can fix....can't do much about the age discrimination.

Age discrimination is huge. All the laws in the world don't stop it either.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
I notice a lot of blue-collar workers have a chip on their shoulder when they have to work with someone who has a degree or going to college. They get very intimidated.


Very true. Even back in the 1960s when my dad was a college student. Dad worked at a steel mill while he was in college and the hard hats gave him a hard time. Dad even thought about staying at the mill, it was good pay. Good thing he didn't because by 1985 the mill was closed and now you wouldn't even know it was ever there.

As a teacher I work with younger teachers who think they will get a summer job. Most of them do not because nobody hires a person with a masters degree for a summer temp job. I know a couple of teachers who work in the summer, but they are at places that they are buddies with the owners. Back in the day when a lot of factories and railroads hired extra help in the summer it was different. Also the increased length in the school year has made things different too.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
AGM100
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:26 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
You're basically saying it's his fault that he's out of work. Are you saying that the 20million+ people that's lost their job over the past 2 years somehow 'deserved' to lose their job?

If you are in a job that you see is vulnerable to lay off ...or working at a company that you see is failing ...yes. Of course you took it to the extreme by adding that I think they "deserve" it ..which is not true. But in life you have to be protactive and looking out for yourself and your family . It is your responisbility to feed your family ...not the collectives .
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5546
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:32 pm

Quoting sv7887 (Reply 15):
Half of the people unemployed right now are past 6 months, and the long term unemployed have a stigma attached to them. Age discrimination is rampant amongst this group (I believe most of the long term unemployed are older workers) so it's not completely unreasonable to see years of unemployment. Skills degrade, people lose confidence, and have to deal with the stigmas attached on top of it.

I don't know about half - but I'm in the 19th month since I was let go (9 months of unemployment insurance - it was a nice buyout). Being 58 years old - I've seen the age thing several times. I will get a response to my resume, do a great phone interview, get a face to face interview - and it ends 10 minutes after I walk in the door. I've been flown from Dallas to Seattle, San Francisco and Nashville for a final interview - only to have it end very quickly.

When I accepted the buyout package - the job market in the Dallas area for senior IT types was pretty good. Less than a week after I left work, 9,000 people at similar skill levels were let go by another company in Dallas. In the first two months of 2009 - 20,000 IT people in my skill areas and levels were laid off in the Dallas area.

Many of those jobs disappeared due to mergers and acquisitions of the company. Others were outsourced overseas. A few were outsourced locally because they require on-site work. At $10 to $15 per hour.

IT types have created a problem. We've made systems too good and reliable. We've done such a good job, that we don't have a job anymore.

Quoting sv7887 (Reply 15):
Employers are VERY hesitant to hire overqualified people for their positions, knowing full well they'll leave once the economy improves. I've had that told to me on several occasions by HR managers at very reputable companies.

My most recent five years job experience was as a senior IT type in a major multinational company. But I can do second level computer repair (my kids and grandkids keep me busy at that). No one wants me at that level. They do not even want me as a low level network admin, Exchange admin or such. Interviewers say I would not be happy in those jobs. Maybe not. Maybe $10 per hour or $15 per hour is quite a step down from what I made before. But at least it would keep me from having to dip into my retirement for the mortage payment each month.

Another big problem for me is that I am a retired US Navy Senior Chief (E-8). Even the federal government interviewers do not want to hire me for any job which is not a supervisory position. Frankly, supervisors are not being hired by anyone these days in any field. And they do not want people with supervisory experience.

Quoting sv7887 (Reply 15):
I lost a fortune on "trying" to get a job as you say. $400 a week isn't much of an incentive to sit on your ass when you made near six figures before.

The worst thing I did was spend $15,000 of my retirement savings for training to get into a completely new job area. No one wants a 58 year old novice. More than one hiring manager in that area has told me it was a very dumb decision. I see stories in the newspapers about this new career field begging for people to train and join the workforce every week or two - what they don't say is they only want young people under 40.

I've seen managers who told me they would not hire me because I would not be happy on TV saying they cannot find applications with the training - which I've completed.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Maybe 10-hours per week for each 40-hours in unemployment benefits. Let beneficiaries sweep streets, clean up parks and beaches, paint facilities as needed etc.

Fine - I would be happy to do that. It's less time than I'm putting in now with unpaid volunteer activities. Like most long-term unemployed I have to get out of the house every day and DO SOMETHING besides job hunting.

Looking for a job is very labor intensive, takes a lot of hours and what to me was a surprising amount of travel around the area and money to get to the interview stage. Close to 20-25 hours most weeks. It is also very rough mentally to continually get told "No - you are worthless"
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:44 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 37):
Close to 20-25 hours most weeks. It is also very rough mentally to continually get told "No - you are worthless"



With your high level of IT Skill .... I would start a consulting company . Many companies are looking for contractors now ... and looking to cut costs . You can start a S corp in about 2 days with a couple hundred bucks . Make up some business cards , by a copy of quick books and your off and running. I use contractors , I know our IT provider does as well. good luck .
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:44 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 36):
If you are in a job that you see is vulnerable to lay off ...or working at a company that you see is failing ...yes.

Many have searched for work and/or attended night courses for before their job ended.
So do they still deserve to be out of work and undeserving of UI?

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 37):

Best of luck in finding a new job.
Bring back the Concorde
 
AGM100
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Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:19 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 39):
So do they still deserve to be out of work and undeserving of UI?


" deserve" .... implies that a job is a gift from someone that has been taken away and punishment is due . A job is not a gift ..it is something that is fought for and earned . And if the other person fights harder and earns it ...you deserve to get cut. That is life ..

Another point ...we don't deserve UI ... we pay into it from every check. It is not a gift from the government !. It is only a gift if you have not payed into the system .... then it is a gift from other Americans who are paying in ! This is where government fails .... we all pay in and they spread it around at will . You should only receive what you have paid in , that is what I would expect.

But this is all politcal ....the lefties love this scenario... a chance for them to shine as beacons of compassion . Stealing from Joe to give to Fred .... it is right in there wheelhouse.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:06 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 40):
.it is something that is fought for and earned . And if the other person fights harder and earns it ...you deserve to get cut. That is life ..

...and when everyone gets cut and the job shipped overseas? Company ran in to the ground due to poor management?
Oh I guess you think it's all their fault because they didn't see it coming.  
Quoting AGM100 (Reply 40):
This is where government fails .... we all pay in and they spread it around at will .

Actually there are already strict guidelines set by the government as to who get's UI. It's going in to the right hands and as I noted in post #14, almost all of it goes right back in to the economy.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 40):
But this is all politcal ....the lefties love this scenario...

Again you're wrong. Only this time around the Republicans are making it a partisan issue. Republicans have supported UI many times over. But go ahead and keep reciting what you hear on right-wing radio.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 40):
Stealing from Joe to give to Fred .... it is right in there wheelhouse.

A society with over 20million+ no longer able to provide their basic needs for themselves and family?
Things get real ugly in that sort of scenario.
Bring back the Concorde
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1618
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:34 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 1):
You made the choice to be in a job that was vulnerable

That's an incredibly narrow minded and ignorant view. There's no such thing as a completely safe job and it's not always clear that layoffs are coming. Sometimes completely healthy companies are acquired by others and people are laid off as a result. With swiftness. That's just one example. Give me an example of a profession and I could probably come up with a hypothetical situation that would lead to job loss.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
, I also have been a proponent of some required service in return for unemployment benefits.
Maybe 10-hours per week for each 40-hours in unemployment benefits. Let beneficiaries sweep streets, clean up parks and beaches, paint facilities as needed etc.

Great idea. I really think this sort of thing is the only reasonable solution. There are a number of things people could be doing to offset the cost of their benefits.

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
You can't exhale until you get a job

Exactly!
 
AGM100
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:51 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 41):
Republicans have supported UI many times over. But go ahead and keep reciting what you hear on right-wing radio.



You are correct ....and I am not suggesting we get rid of it totaly. But when does it end ?..... 126 weeks ? 200 weeks? If empathy alone is used to make policy then chaos will be the order.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 42):
Give me an example of a profession and I could probably come up with a hypothetical situation that would lead to job loss.



There are none ... not my point. The point is if you are in a profession tied to say a booming housing market you should prepare for down turns . You should have some back up and be willing to do something else .

I would assume you support the government taking the risk out of life ..... the government can hold your hand and make sure you are safe and sound. Well that costs money ...and the government does not make money ...they take it and dole it out. It is not a endless supply unless of course we just continue to print it ....
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1618
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:56 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 43):
I would assume you support the government taking the risk out of life

You would assume incorrectly. I just think it's exceedingly naive of you to think that it's always possible to see that one's job isn't secure. Stuff happens. Jobs are lost. Sometimes it happens quickly.
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:03 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 44):
Stuff happens. Jobs are lost. Sometimes it happens quickly.



Man you are right about that ... but in most cases a employee will have some idea that the ice is thin. Of course there are exceptions ... like a pending contract getting canceled and the workforce cut that happens . This happened to me .... after I had relocated to another state . It was tough no doubt ...very uncertain times .. but we made it .. we made it without taking your money to get by.

I think welfare recipients should have to pay it back ... I would support a program like that , If you borrow say 5000 over a period of months .. you pay it back over time. Or ..you work it off in the community , something to support and teach the value of the money they are receiving . Now it is simply seen as government stash ....
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:32 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 36):
If you are in a job that you see is vulnerable to lay off ...or working at a company that you see is failing ...yes.

If I'm working at Company X, which is having trouble making ends meet due to the economy, I can't exactly head over to Company Y in the same field and find a new job, since Company Y is more likely than not having the same sort of problems, and isn't looking to hire new people. You can't have a down time in the economy and not have good people lose their jobs through no fault of their own.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
UH60FtRucker
Posts: 3252
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:15 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:54 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 45):
I think welfare recipients should have to pay it back ... I would support a program like that , If you borrow say 5000 over a period of months .. you pay it back over time. Or ..you work it off in the community , something to support and teach the value of the money they are receiving .

I think everyone here could agree to something like that.

Superfly commented that he was against making people work for the money, while receiving the hand-out.... something about it being a punishment. But I wonder if anyone would be opposed to your suggestion? Hell, it might be an incentive for them to get off their lazy asses, and not wait around for NINETY NINE freakin' weeks.

**I am still sh*tting bricks over that. I can't believe they last for ninety nine weeks. Unfreakin'-believable.
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
thegreatRDU
Posts: 884
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:47 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:56 pm

Why couldn't they do what the Republicans suggested and simply redirect the money this government wastes to pay for this?
Our Returning Champion
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:02 pm

Interesting, Ed Schultz just asked a woman collecting unemployment if she would take a job if it was offered it her. She said only if it was in her field and it had benefits. Speaks volumes on how people are looking for work. Sometimes you don't get pick and choose and if you have to do something you don't like well you have to take it.

[Edited 2010-07-20 16:54:05]
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!

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