boeingfever777
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USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:14 pm

USC To Return Bush's Heisman Trophy

Wonder if Bush is giving his copy back and if so will the 2005 Heisman winner default to Vince Young?

2005
1 Reggie Bush Southern California Jr. RB 784 89 11 2,541
2 Vince Young Texas Jr. QB 79 613 145 1,608
3 Matt Leinart Southern California Sr. QB 18 147 449 797
4 Brady Quinn Notre Dame Jr. QB 7 21 128 191
5 Michael Robinson Penn State Sr. QB 2 7 29 49
6 A.J. Hawk Ohio State Sr. LB 0 3 23 29
7 DeAngelo Williams Memphis Sr. RB 1 2 19 26
8 Drew Olson UCLA Sr. QB 1 2 14 21
9 Jerome Harrison Washington State Sr. RB 0 4 12 20
10 Elvis Dumervil Louisville Sr. DE 0 0 9 9
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LTU932
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:09 am

Damn, I didn't realise how bad it actually was at USC...
 
fraspotter
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:22 pm

USC is just returning their COPY of Bush's Heisman that they had on display. Reggie still has the real trophy in his possession. The whole thing that this story is about is that USC is taking all memorabilia of both Reggie Bush and O.J. Mayo off of display on campus. It has nothing to do with awarding the Heisman to Vince Young. I guess USC sports leadership want a "fresh start" after this rules violation fiasco...
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waterpolodan
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:48 am

Despite the rules infractions, it doesn't change the fact that Bush was the best player in college football that year. Not like a performance enhancing drug or anything, so IMO he deserves to keep the trophy even if an asterisk is placed next to his name on the record lists. After winning the super bowl this year, though, I doubt he'd care that much! If we're returning cheated accolades, we might as well give the 2002 National Championship back to the University of Miami while we're at it... yes, I'm still bitter about the lie of a call that stole the title game and gave it to OSU.
 
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fxramper
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:00 pm

Bush is a joke and I chalk his abilities up with the likes of Ricky Williams.

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 2):
USC is just returning their COPY of Bush's Heisman that they had on display

Which is exactly what the article posted and thread title states.  
Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 2):
It has nothing to do with awarding the Heisman to Vince Young.

When the Heisman Trust asks Bush to return his trophy it will be vacated and no award will be given out for 2005.

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefoot...t-Reggie-Bushs-trophy-under-review

Quoting waterpolodan (Reply 3):
it doesn't change the fact that Bush was the best player in college football that year.

Thanks for your opinion.

Quoting waterpolodan (Reply 3):
After winning the super bowl this year,

As a back up RB and role player. I'm sure that means a lot to him.
 
Mudboy
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:32 pm

OK, Let's pretend I am in Iraq and cannot stay up on sports news, what did Reggie Bush do?
 
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fxramper
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:42 pm

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 5):
OK, Let's pretend I am in Iraq and cannot stay up on sports news, what did Reggie Bush do?

Accepted gifts and money as a college athlete. OJ Mayo, former USC player, did the same thing.
 
waterpolodan
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:43 pm

Quoting fxramper (Reply 4):
Bush is a joke and I chalk his abilities up with the likes of Ricky Williams.

I see, I think we have a different scope of humor if you think those two guys are jokes. Ricky is now a solid and necessary part of the Dolphin's offense, and before his vision quest in the pacific he was one of the best running backs in the league. IMO, he still is, he's just a bit older and less able to run every other play like he once was. You probably don't respect him because he took some time off to "get high", but if you saw "Run, Ricky, Run!", you'd realize that he's actually a remarkably intelligent and gentle person, and that his leave of absence was something that he needed to do for himself. Yes, he shot the Dolphins in the foot with his timing, but at least he wasn't off raping 18 year olds, running dog fighting rings, shooting himself in his leg in a nightclub, or doing any number of amazingly foolish criminal stuff that many others in the league are up to.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 4):

As a back up RB and role player. I'm sure that means a lot to him.

I'm sure it does, actually. Yes, he's used less than he probably would like to be, but it doesn't change the fact that he was a crucial part of the team's win, and he'll surely always treasure that.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 4):

Thanks for your opinion.

Thanks for yours, your sarcasm was delightful.
 
slider
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:47 pm

They'll never take Bush's trophy away....he'll hide it in Kardashian's ass.
 
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fxramper
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:42 pm

Reggie Dubya Bush - the new punchline for cheating, Kardashian, and busted career jokes. Seth Meyer at the ESPY's this year was classic. It's comical listening to Pete Carroll tell everyone he left USC because it was time to get back in the NFL.

Quoting waterpolodan (Reply 7):
Ricky is now a solid and necessary part of the Dolphin's offense

C. Henne, R. Brown, B. Marshall and the defense are necessary. After the premier of Run, Forrest, Run, he stated he plans to retire after the 2010-11 season. Too bad Goodell wasn't running the show when Williams entered the league.
 
waterpolodan
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:54 pm

Quoting fxramper (Reply 9):

C. Henne, R. Brown, B. Marshall and the defense are necessary.

Ronnie and Ricky are "equal backs" in the offense here in Miami. Ronnie might have more spectacular highlights, but if you watched any of our games last year, you'd know that Ricky was just as good if not better on a consistent basis. Yes, he's going to retire again, but he'll no doubt have a solid final year. Not sure how he's any less necessary than a guy who hasn't even made an appearance on the field in a Fins uniform yet... Anyway, you don't like the guy. Fine. Why not? I mentioned in my earlier post that he's been vilified for having a desire to do things in his life beyond football, while other people of questionable character at best are celebrated again and again (Vick and Big Ben, to name the two highest profile members of a long, long list)
 
vikkyvik
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:57 pm

Quoting fxramper (Reply 4):
Bush is a joke and I chalk his abilities up with the likes of Ricky Williams.

Whatever his abilities and play are like now, he sure as hell was NOT a joke in college (which is what the thread is about).

Quoting fxramper (Reply 4):
As a back up RB and role player. I'm sure that means a lot to him.

Hah, I know it sure would mean a hell of a lot to me! Why does it matter if you're a role player and not the star running back?
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AirframeAS
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:01 am

Quoting boeingfever777 (Thread starter):
2005 Heisman winner default to Vince Young?

If the USC folks really do surrender the 2005 Heisman, then the Heisman should be canceled for that year. It is only fair.

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 2):
I guess USC sports leadership want a "fresh start" after this rules violation fiasco...

Just because they remove items does not mean squat. The "fiasco" is still gonna be there one way or another.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 6):
Accepted gifts and money as a college athlete.

Let me play the devil's advocate for a minute and ask why that is a bad thing? (I am only curious....)
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bohica
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:36 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 12):
Quoting fxramper (Reply 6):
Accepted gifts and money as a college athlete.

Let me play the devil's advocate for a minute and ask why that is a bad thing? (I am only curious....)

College athletes are not allowed under NCAA rules to receive any type of compensation for playing sports for their school. This keeps everyone on a level playing field. Otherwise the winningest teams would be from the schools with the biggest payrolls.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:49 am

Quoting bohica (Reply 13):
This keeps everyone on a level playing field. Otherwise the winningest teams would be from the schools with the biggest payrolls.

In theory, yes. However, schools like USC, Texas and LSU to name a few, still get Blue Chip players no matter where they are from. Why? Because those High School kids know USC and LSU are the places to be to win a National Championship guaranteed. Oftentimes, they ignore what the school really offers academically. Not always, but generally it is that way. So is that fair to the average school? Not really, but that is how it is.

Quoting bohica (Reply 13):
College athletes are not allowed under NCAA rules to receive any type of compensation for playing sports for their school.

I am quite aware of that. I wanted to point that out too.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:07 am

Quoting waterpolodan (Reply 3):
Despite the rules infractions, it doesn't change the fact that Bush was the best player in college football that year.

Disagree. Vince Young was the best player in college football that year. Reggie Bush had "the best team ever" including a Heisman winning QB standing right in front of him. Not to say the 2005 Longhorns weren't stacked, because they were, but Vince was the heart and soul of that team, and the best player all around that year. Bush got the hype, Bush was the flashiest (although Vince had his share of flash...just ask Donovan Woods of Ok. State), but Vince meant more to his team. Need proof? Jan. 4th, 2006. Bush wasn't even the best player on his team that game, heck, he wasn't even the 3rd best player on his team.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 4):
Bush is a joke and I chalk his abilities up with the likes of Ricky Williams

Drew, why the hate for Ricky Williams? He was a stud, you of all people should know that!

Quoting waterpolodan (Reply 7):
you'd realize that he's actually a remarkably intelligent and gentle person, and that his leave of absence was something that he needed to do for himself. Yes, he shot the Dolphins in the foot with his timing, but at least he wasn't off raping 18 year olds, running dog fighting rings, shooting himself in his leg in a nightclub, or doing any number of amazingly foolish criminal stuff that many others in the league are up to.

   Ricky is a fantastic person. Some may disagree with his methods, but he is very philosophical.

Quoting Slider (Reply 8):
They'll never take Bush's trophy away....he'll hide it in Kardashian's ass.

     

Vince has already said he wants no part of that trophy, even if it was offered to him. While part of me thinks if given the choice, he should accept it as a nod to his teammates, I don't blame him for not wanting anything to do with it.

But he was the best player in CFB that year, and proved it on the biggest stage.

Hook'em!

Cheers,
Cameron

P.S. Is it freaking football season yet?!?!?!
Cheers,
Cameron
 
Pyrex
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:03 am

So, they paid a guy that was making them millions a year instead of just getting rich off of him. Must have missed the memo that said slavery was cool again. But then again, in a system so deturped as "college" sports what can you expect?

Quoting bohica (Reply 13):
Otherwise the winningest teams would be from the schools with the biggest payrolls.

Shock, horror! Whoever has the most money wins. How much more unamerican can you get?
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slider
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:43 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 15):
Vince has already said he wants no part of that trophy, even if it was offered to him. While part of me thinks if given the choice, he should accept it as a nod to his teammates, I don't blame him for not wanting anything to do with it.

But he was the best player in CFB that year, and proved it on the biggest stage.

Hook'em!

I have to agree with you on that one…no matter what VY’s NFL career holds, he was absolutely money. That national championship game remains, IMO, one of THE best college football games in history. And what Vince Young did was just remarkable.

I think if it were offered to him, he should take it, even if it rings hollow and doing it as a tribute to his teammates would be a good idea…if ONLY for that reason. But it appears as if, and I think the NCAA should, simply vacate the award for the year and leave it empty.
 
BMI727
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:50 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 1):
Damn, I didn't realise how bad it actually was at USC..

This sort of thing is happening all over big time college sports. Just Google John Calipari.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 12):
et me play the devil's advocate for a minute and ask why that is a bad thing? (I am only curious....)

Really it's only bad because it is against the rules. When you have a star like Reggie Bush, the university makes millions off of him and he sees none of it. But the nature of the business is that if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying, and I doubt that will ever change.

Quoting bohica (Reply 13):
This keeps everyone on a level playing field. Otherwise the winningest teams would be from the schools with the biggest payrolls.

That's already the case though. For example, OSU would not be what they are without T Boone Pickens bankrolling them.
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Longhornmaniac
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:22 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 17):
That national championship game remains, IMO, one of THE best college football games in history.

Absolutely   . I'm proud to say I was there, sitting in the corner where he "ran it in." Best sports moment of my life. Very seldom do you have a game that is as hyped for as long as that one was, and actually manage to exceed the expectations. That game had been hyped since the day U$C decimated OU in the previous year's championship. Oh man, it brings back good memories just thinking about it.

Quoting Slider (Reply 17):
no matter what VY’s NFL career holds, he was absolutely money.

Definitely. And I still think it's lost on some people that Vince's NFL career as by no means been a bust. He's been to two Pro Bowls, is 26-14 as a starter, and has resurrected two teams that were on the verge of extinction (2006 and 2009) and made them respectable. I'm looking forward to what he can do this year.

Quoting Slider (Reply 17):
But it appears as if, and I think the NCAA should, simply vacate the award for the year and leave it empty.

  

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
AirframeAS
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:25 am

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 15):
P.S. Is it freaking football season yet?!?!?!

   AMEN!!! My friend in Seattle bought our tickets today to the Nebraska/Washington game for Sept 18th. And we got GREAT seats!!!! (I think that game is now sold out, it is the game of the year and will be nationally televised as well which is awesome!!!) Washington opened their ticket centers for single game sales today.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 16):
Quoting bohica (Reply 13):
Otherwise the winningest teams would be from the schools with the biggest payrolls.

Shock, horror! Whoever has the most money wins. How much more unamerican can you get?

  

Quoting Slider (Reply 17):
I think if it were offered to him, he should take it, even if it rings hollow and doing it as a tribute to his teammates would be a good idea…if ONLY for that reason.

   Why would anyone want a tainted trophy after the fact?? I sure as hell wouldn't, even if I was # 2 in that Heisman voting.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18):
But the nature of the business is that if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying

But that has been going on for a quite a long time, even if the NCAA does not find that rules were violated.

Quoting Slider (Reply 17):
But it appears as if, and I think the NCAA should, simply vacate the award for the year and leave it empty.

Recommended that earlier myself and agreed.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
BMI727
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:47 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 20):
But that has been going on for a quite a long time, even if the NCAA does not find that rules were violated.

Oh yeah, and it won't stop whether players are paid or not. Nick Saban better be real confident that he can keep his dirt hidden, otherwise he just set himself up for a major media smackdown.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
AirframeAS
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:05 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 21):

And you know what I find funny?? I find it pretty pathentic to where a school does a direct violation to the NCAA rules (any rule, not just being paid to play or whatnot. I mean any rule...) and the NCAA does not find the school in violation of the NCAA own rules. Makes them (the NCAA) look like complete hypocrites and gives me a lot of "WTF" moments.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
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fxramper
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:03 pm

Bush wasn't the best player the year he won the Heisman. Bush had a 'capable at the time' Leinhart, the best O-line in the country blocking for him and Pete Carrol calling the shots. V. Young had almost nothing to work with and single handedly lead Texas to a national championship. Vacate the Heisman for 2005.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 11):
Why does it matter if you're a role player and not the star

Something all professional athletes have - an ego. "I was the back up to Pierre Thomas..." lame.  
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 11):
he sure as hell was NOT a joke in college

USC had the best offensive line in the country when Reggie Bush was at USC. That might have had something to do with why he was so successful in college and why he's been so terrible in the NFL. Again; fail.  
Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 15):
Drew, why the hate for Ricky Williams? He was a stud,

At U of Texas, he was as stud; absolutely! When he got drafted, got a bucket of cash, and turned into a pothead; no. It's comical to see Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams in the same sentence when discussing the Dolphins options at running back.

KROC will probably draft Bush and Williams this year in the Anet Fantasy Football League.   
 
vikkyvik
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RE: USC To Give Back 2005 Heisman.

Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:58 pm

Quoting fxramper (Reply 23):
USC had the best offensive line in the country when Reggie Bush was at USC. That might have had something to do with why he was so successful in college and why he's been so terrible in the NFL. Again; fail.

Yes, they had an amazing offensive line. But once you're past the offensive line, I'm not sure how they help you turn a 5-yard run into a 50-yard run, as Bush did many times. He weaved his way around many linebackers and defensive backs in that season.

Also, when he first went to the NFL, I believed (and said to people) that the way he ran at USC probably would not work in the NFL. The defenses are just too much better than in college.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 23):
Bush wasn't the best player the year he won the Heisman. Bush had a 'capable at the time' Leinhart, the best O-line in the country blocking for him and Pete Carrol calling the shots. V. Young had almost nothing to work with and single handedly lead Texas to a national championship. Vacate the Heisman for 2005.

Just to note - I didn't say Bush was the best player that season, nor am I trying to imply that.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".

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