zrs70
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Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:14 am

God? Moses? Humanity?
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777way
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:23 am

Islam says Injeel (bible) was sent by God, but has since been corrupted same goes for Torah dont know about the book Zabur? given to David, but Psalms of David are mentioned in Islam.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:55 am

We know that there are many similarities between religious stories. For example, the Greek and Roman religions told of a flood that was brought about by the gods as a way of purging the world of evil. They spoke of an ark in which a few chosen people rode out the flood and how a new race of stronger people sprung up after the floodwaters receded.

As different sects warred, and as different leaders had to justify their power, the Bible was written and re-written. People were killed, often brutally, over re-writings of the Bible (and other holy books).

The Bible is many things, but it is not the word of God as set down during the flight from Egypt. In fact, there is no evidence in the archaeological record that Hebrews were ever enslaved in Egypt, or that the Exodus even occurred. Given that the numbers given in Exodus would seem to indicate that 30% of Egypt's population got up and left, there is no evidence in the archaeological record of the inevitable economic collapse in Egypt, nor is there any evidence of the devastation that would be brought by the plagues. Even if these events were stricken from the written records, there would still be evidence. There is none.

In all likelihood, the Exodus story is an allegory for a particularly brutal Hebrew king, none other than Solomon himself.
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TheCol
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:55 am

Usually the author's name is printed on the cover or the first page of the book he or she wrote.

If your talking about divine inspiration, then there's only one answer to that. If you don't believe in divine inspiration, then there is no question to ask.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
iairallie
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:12 am

It is a collection of theological and sociological records, histories and documents written and collected by a number of people and translated/re-translated and revised over many centuries.

As a Christian I believe much of that process was inspired by God.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:53 am

What is known to us as the Bible was written over a period of 1500 years by 40+ writers coming from all walks of life in 66 different books.

It still remains to be proved that these texts that make up the Bible came from divine inspiration.

There are earlier spiritual scriptures that came long before the Bible namely in Sanskrit and translated into other languages. The Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, Epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana), Manu Smriti and Sutras.

Buddhist manuscripts from the First Century are in the British Museum. They are comparable date-wise to the Dead Sea Scrolls and studied by scholars. Again there is no proof that these are the actual words of the Buddha.
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Arniepie
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:56 am

The Bible, Torah, Quran, Vedas, Avesta, etc... are all book written by mankind to fool mankind.
They are just like the trilogy "the lord of the rings"," the odyssey" written by homer, and the combined works from AK Rowling known as "the adventures of Harry Potter".

The difference between the first books and the second ones is that the first ones are badly written , vile and in no small way , pornographic fictional books that are basically unreadable without switching of the intelligent part of your brain, while the other books are also fictional but all in all exciting to read, well written and make a hell of a lot more sense.
[edit post]
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:00 am

Quoting arniepie (Reply 6):
The Bible, Torah, Quran, Vedas, Avesta, etc... are all book written by mankind to fool mankind.


It is too much a short cut to say this. Think about the amount of information that is placed in them.

There is a lot to take from these spiritual scriptures even if one is not religious. No superficiality there.
It requires some deep thinking from which to draw your own conclusions. They are certainly not easy texts.
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PanHAM
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:10 am

Can't say who wrote it, but the first who printed the bible was Johannes Gutenberg in the German city of Mainz.
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Arniepie
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:25 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 7):
It is too much a short cut to say this. Think about the amount of information that is placed in them.

There is a lot to take from these spiritual scriptures even if one is not religious. No superficiality there.
It requires some deep thinking from which to draw your own conclusions. They are certainly not easy texts.

They are, at best, romanticized versions of events occurred in the past, only very limited actual historical truth can be derived from them, of all these books the most direct write up about historical events can probably be found in the Ahadith, and even these are heavily edited from only one POV, namely Mohammed's.

Quoting them as historical correct sources is disingenuous , to say the least, that's also not why they where written, they are in essence tools to lead whole populations thought processes and actions.
[edit post]
 
oly720man
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:01 pm

Quoting arniepie (Reply 9):
They are, at best, romanticized versions of events occurred in the past

There is, undoubtedly, a lot of folk memory from a time when hardly anyone could read or write and stories were handed down round the campfire or other communal or tribal gatherings. And the problem then is that such stories become established as a reality that is hard to break from because it is the history and identity, and even perhaps the honour, of the particular group.
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Maverick623
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:03 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
In all likelihood, the Exodus story is an allegory

I'd submit that every story in the Bible is an allegory. From "Let There Be Light" to "The Beast", we have a wonderful tale about how a less knowledgeable people from the Middle East interpreted what was going on in the world. Some stories bastardized by people with varying motivations, some stories losing their true meaning after being translated through at least 5 different languages, 3 of them now extinct.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 5):
the Bible was written over a period of 1500 years by 40+ writers coming from all walks of life in 66 different books.

And modified time and time again through translations and interpretations, some well-meaning, some not. While most of the Old Testament stories are relatively the same throughout each English versions, the New Testament stuff is the most affected by political will.
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NWADC9
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:14 pm

Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:56 pm

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 12):
Wikipedia to the rescue!

Whatever happened to "Wikipedia is an unreliable source"? Not saying that you ever said it.  
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:24 pm

"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
iliribdl
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:34 pm

It was written by humans in attempt to be able to control other humans.
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:45 pm

Quoting iliribdl (Reply 15):
It was written by humans in attempt to be able to control other humans.

Ding Ding Ding! We have an answer! OK the thread can be closed now.
 
PSA53
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:16 pm

Quoting zrs70 (Thread starter):
Who Wrote The Bible?

Stephen King?  

Floods,plagues,first born,etc,etc.....I mean who else could think up such horror.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:16 pm

Can the Muslims prove of their God without the use of their Quran?

Can the Jews prove the exsistence of their God without the use of the Torah?

and can a Christian prove the exsistence of the Christian God without the use of the Holy Bible?
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777way
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:37 pm

Madame Concorde wouldnt you say things are just too pefect for there not to be a creator even if the holy books did not exist to try and prove it.
 
BN747
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:22 pm

Quoting arniepie (Reply 6):
The Bible, Torah, Quran, Vedas, Avesta, etc... are all book written by mankind to fool mankind.
Quoting iliribdl (Reply 15):
It was written by humans in attempt to be able to control other humans.

Bravo, common sense prevails over childhood silliness.

It only takes a committed block of time to examine this question the OP poses... to get to the heart of the matter.

King Henry VIII used Leviticus 18:16 to make his case to divorce Catherine (his brothers wife whom he married..to later attempt to divorce her some 25 years later - Henry was only like 13, 14 or 15 when he married upon his brother's death).

but the passage says 'No man shall marry his brother's widow as his wife, or he she shall be unable bear him children'

...which is a big fat whopping lie.


Of course the Church/Pope still denied Henry's request for permission to annul the marriage.

Plus there tons of contradictions from cover to cover of the Bible:

Did Jesus bear his own cross?

A) No (John 19:17)
B) Yes (Matthew 17:31-32)

Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus after his baptism?

A) Yes (John 1:32, 33)
B) No (Matthew 11:2)

Google '101 Contradictions of the Bible' ..but that's nothing. Let's just call those 'errors' of communication of the time.'

The serious 'nonsense' is this, the matter of slavery and sexism... from Exodus on how to 'conduct slavery and the slave trade (among Hebrews only)'

Exodus 21:1 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.

7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her [1] for himself...."

http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Exodus+21


Read that last line....."7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her [1] for himself...."

This is soooooo sexist and obscene it's not funny. "If she does not please her master" Here is the word of God signing off on sexual subjugation and dominance for the simple sake of pleasure and fulfilling carnal desire (who says what the limits are...or were?)

The link I've posted goes into far greater detail...I want to hear one of faithful do his best to reconcile this line of reason aside from tired typical BS response of 'He's just testing us'...


Now there is simply no way on earth anyone can argue a All Powerful and Omnipotent God can justify the owning and trading of human beings for labor. To choose and endorse the poor, weak and defenseless to serve and enrich another because he desires it so. That's just pure unadulterated BS.

To list '10 Commandments' as the 10 principles of law for man to live by..and they range from the trivial (Thou shall not steal) to the most heinous (murder)..and yet omitted the only thing just a degree form being worse than murder - slavery, the owning of another human being)...can only be written by humans themselves because they lacked the foresight to see beyond their contemporary conditions to realize how barbaric and inhuman it was - a true all powerful and all knowing god would never make such grave error.

Jesus himself missed the golden opportunity of a lifetime to address the very issue itself..BUT whoever penned the words that supposedly came out of his mouth chose to simply dodge the issue entirely. If the early church had taken a true stance against such a practice (and not owned any slaves themselves....they would have railed against this subject like they did against harlots). But they accepted it...and knew nothing about 'how to make the argument against it.


Who wrote the Bible you say?

You are in one of three camps.

1) You believe it all and simply refuse to investigate and don't feel the need. You're content with staking your life on what someone has passed down to you without question.

2) You really want to know and you took the time to 'evaluate' what is known, read Bibles of different eras..written in 1956, 1902, 1850, 1801, 1750 and back. The further back you go, the more you see they've tried to change and update the story to keep up with times. The stories changes, characters appear who weren't there before. You can only conclude that people .. humans made this nonsense up. And you see signs of it today as certain characters try to fuse Science and the Bible together, add in Dinosaurs that weren't there, etc...

3) You picked up on early clues that it was all bogus and never looked back.


And not to appear as only 'picking on the Bible'..the same line of attack can be successfully launch against the Koran and the Torah and any other religious text proclaiming to be" the light, the truth and the way"


BN747

[Edited 2010-07-26 15:18:01]
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:27 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 21):
Madame Concorde wouldnt you say things are just too pefect

Perfect?

Hmm, lets see, world problems right now: widespread famine, poverty, disease, wars, totalitarian governments, etc etc.

Yup, just perfect  
 
photopilot
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:38 pm

Who wrote the bible?

Gee, I always thought it was another Fairy Tale written by the Brothers Grimm. 
 
777way
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:20 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 23):
Quoting 777way (Reply 21):
Madame Concorde wouldnt you say things are just too pefect

Perfect?

The universe and the earth it self are quite perfect and beautiful unless you're into only noticing the negative and largely man made problems, as for some natural disasters well nature has to take its course. I am quite in awe of everything that exists definitely a creator there.
 
Maverick623
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:49 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 20):
Can the Muslims prove of their God without the use of their Quran?

Can the Jews prove the exsistence of their God without the use of the Torah?

and can a Christian prove the exsistence of the Christian God without the use of the Holy Bible?

Here's a fun fact:

All three worship the same God.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
747srule
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:54 pm

I would encourage everyone to read 2 Timothy 3:15-17 to find the answer. To God be the glory now and forever!!!
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AirPacific747
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:01 am

Quoting iliribdl (Reply 15):
It was written by humans in attempt to be able to control other humans.
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 17):

Ding Ding Ding! We have an answer! OK the thread can be closed now.
Quoting arniepie (Reply 6):

Ding Ding Ding! We have an answer! OK the thread can be closed now.

Yes! I am glad I am not the only one who possesses common sense in here  I totally agree with you!

Darwinism FTW!
 
BN747
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:11 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 25):
The universe and the earth it self are quite perfect and beautiful unless you're into only noticing the negative and largely man made problems, as for some natural disasters well nature has to take its course. I am quite in awe of everything that exists definitely a creator there.

What you're dismissing in your 'perfect and beautiful' setting is the planet eating, star exploding, galaxy colliding nightmares that occurring while we enjoy 'your view' of peace and beauty. It's like sating everything is great here..while genocide and other man-made atrocities explode across the globe.

If you were living in Sudan, Somalia or Chechneya...I seriously doubt if you'd have much time to ponder endlessly about about how perfect and beautiful the Earth/Universe are. I can only imagine what those people must think.

It's not 'looking for ....or dwelling on' the negative, it's a sober understanding and recognizing that the good, beautiful and the majestic co-exist with the destructive, the ugly and the deadly...just like here on earth. And unfortunately for some, there's no guy sitting out there on a Golden Throne watching it all unfold. There's nothing recognizing both. But is totally naive to only focus solely on one side of the equation alone.. The mathematical odds suggest such a thing is ludicrous. They also suggest the 'ooh and ahhh' atomic amalgamation that is the Earth, is like finding 'another grain of sand' when you are sitting at the beach...yes, that unique and extraordinary.

Quoting 747srule (Reply 27):
I would encourage everyone to read 2 Timothy 3:15-17 to find the answer. To God be the glory now and forever!!!

Hmmm yeah, like listening to that guy who spoke at Henry VIII's (he was what all of 17?) coronation 'proclaiming' King Henry to be "the best possible ruler of England as well as the whole world".... another person 'opinion' based on 'nothing really'.




BN747

[Edited 2010-07-26 17:34:02]
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
HKA
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:55 am

Quoting arniepie (Reply 6):
The Bible, Torah, Quran, Vedas, Avesta, etc... are all book written by mankind to fool mankind

the Quran was not written by a man.According to Islam, Angel Gabriel brought the versus to Prophet Muhammad for a period of 33 years. All the millions of Quran copies in the world are exactly the same and have not been changed for 1400+ years and will not change in the future and will remain the same till the Day of Judgement. The Day when everyone including all muslims will be accountable.

But it is true some people intepret some of the verses differently but the original arabic text is same.

unlike the bible which has so many different versions.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:10 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 25):

The universe and the earth it self are quite perfect and beautiful unless you're into only noticing the negative and largely man made problems, as for some natural disasters well nature has to take its course. I am quite in awe of everything that exists definitely a creator there.

So that explains why early in the solar system a world about the size of Mars slammed into the nascent Earth? The debris from that collision coalesced into the moon. You wouldn't have wanted to be around our "perfect and beautiful" world the day that continent-sized lumps of molten rock came crashing down out of the sky. I'm pretty sure your homeowner's insurance doesn't cover that one.

The universe is relentlessly empty. Even under water, 99.999% of it is empty space between the particles. If you move out into space, it's even emptier. Between the galaxies, it's just unimaginably empty. A few singing subatomic particles popping in and out of existence. That's all.

Every single multicellular organism is fighting a constant battle on the microscopic scale against trillions of microogranisms that are trying to eat it. It's a dog-eat-dog world. It may be beautiful; I can't argue against that. But it's far from perfect.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
BN747
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:20 am

Quoting HKA (Reply 30):
the Quran was not written by a man.According to Islam, Angel Gabriel brought the versus to Prophet Muhammad

'According' and 'brought the versus' are the key words/phrases here...and therein lies the flaws.

The term "According' masks who the true authors are and believe me..after a few glances at some 'passages of the Quran' it's obvious that flawed Humans are behind it's scripting just as with the Bible.

Alexander the Great: According to the Quran (Surah 18:89-98) Alexander the Great was a devout Muslim and lived to a ripe old age. Historical records however show that Alexander the Great died young at 33 years of age (b. 356 B.C. - d. 323 B.C.), and believed he was divine, forcing others to recognize him as such. In India on the Hyphasis River (now Beas) Alexander erected twelve altars to twelve Olympian gods. Once again the Quran shows errors in historical and religious fact.

According to the Qur'an, no-one bore the name of Yahya before John the Baptist (sura 19:7). Yet, we find that name mentioned in the Old Testament (2 Kings 25:23) implying that it was a well known name hundreds of years before the writing of the Qur'an.

Suras 16:15; 21:31; 31:10; 78:6-7; 88:19 tell us that God placed (threw down) mountains on the earth like tent pegs to keep the earth from shaking.

Sexism

Sura 4: 4. And if you fear that you will not be just in dealing with the orphans, then marry of other women as may be agreeable to you, two, or three, or four; and if you fear you will not be able to do justice, then marry only one or marry what your right hand possess. Thus it is more likely that you will not do injustice.

Sura 2:223. And they ask thee concerning menstruation. Say, 'It is a harmful thing, so keep away from women during menstruation, and go not in unto them until they are clean. But when they have cleansed themselves, go in unto them as ALLAH has commanded you.

Can I say "Oh brother".. now?


Brought the versus by an Angel, well that goes with out saying ... they are after all the original 'invisible friends', I mean tooth fairies must have their origins as well.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Arniepie
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:43 am

Quoting HKA (Reply 30):
The Bible, Torah, Quran, Vedas, Avesta, etc... are all book written by mankind to fool mankind

the Quran was not written by a man.According to Islam, Angel Gabriel brought the versus to Prophet Muhammad for a period of 33 years. All the millions of Quran copies in the world are exactly the same and have not been changed for 1400+ years and will not change in the future and will remain the same till the Day of Judgement. The Day when everyone including all muslims will be accountable.

But it is true some people intepret some of the verses differently but the original arabic text is same.

unlike the bible which has so many different versions.

Nice to know but somewhat flawed in its logic, like so many of its contemporaries Muhammad and his disciples could not
read nor write, it is widely believed under historians that the verses where written down by at least 2 Jewish scribes working for Muhammad as they where the only ones in those regions that could do so in those times.

what's also very striking is that Muhammad only got the idea of starting his own religion after he saw how far ahead as a culture and how much more coherent the Jews ,and in a much lesser degree the Christians, really where.
It's no surprise that he grafted his religion on those 2 older and related religions.

And...........Poof !!!, all at once God/Allah also spoke to Muhammad and would'nt you know it, he also began his own Branch of the franchise, talk about luck/coincidence   
[edit post]
 
BarfBag
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:57 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 5):
There are earlier spiritual scriptures that came long before the Bible namely in Sanskrit and translated into other languages. The Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, Epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana), Manu Smriti and Sutras.

Only the Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas and the epics qualify as the spiritual works of Hinduism. The sutras and shastras are basically treatises on the the conduct of various tasks - statescraft (artha shastra), exercise (e.g. yoga sutra), intimate relations (e.g. kama sutra) and even astrology (jyotisha sutra). The Manu Smriti is a sociological document, more popular outside India than inside, where its very authenticity is questioned.
 
BN747
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:16 pm

Quoting arniepie (Reply 31):
what's also very striking is that Muhammad only got the idea of starting his own religion after he saw how far ahead as a culture and how much more coherent the Jews ,and in a much lesser degree the Christians, really where.
It's no surprise that he grafted his religion on those 2 older and related religions.

And...........Poof !!!, all at once God/Allah also spoke to Muhammad and would'nt you know it, he also began his own Branch of the franchise, talk about luck/coinc

Sounds awefully a lot like that guy who dreamed a religion in the mid 1800s...Joseph Smith, who created Mormonism and he the profit.

...Just goes to show, you can get people follow anyhing..but reason and rationale.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
BN747
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RE: Who Wrote The Bible?

Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:32 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 33):
Sounds awefully a lot like that guy who dreamed a religion in the mid 1800s...Joseph Smith, who created Mormonism and he the profit.

As all religious Leaders do 'profit'...perhaps that is the original spelling of the word instead of 'prophet'.. no, I just screwed it up.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson

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