MadameConcorde
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F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:09 am

On we go, to the Italian Grand Prix - Gran Premio Santander d'Italia - in Monza!

Some History:

Monza is the oldest race on the F1 calendar. It was first held in 1922, making Monza the oldest track as well.

Michael Schumacher is the driver with the most wins at Monza.
5 wins for Michael Schumacher 1996, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006

Ferrari is the constructor with the most wins at Monza.
18 wins for Ferrari 1949, 1951, 1952, 1960, 1961, 1964, 1966, 1970, 1975, 1979, 1988, 1996, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006

The Italian Grand Prix was also one of the inaugural Formula One championship races in 1950, and has been held every year since then.

Date: Sunday 12 September
Lap length: 3.510 miles
Race laps: 53
Nicknamed the Pista Magica in Italy, Monza is the quickest circuit in F1, with cars reaching a top speed of 215 mph on the long pit straight.

Definitely my top favourite Formula 1 race with Monaco.

Circuit map with information
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-conten...010/08/14_Italy_EN_CMYK_300dpi.jpg

On board with Nigel Mansell in 1988
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hn8yclQGw8

I will be posted in Grandstand 20 Saturday and Sunday, between Variante Ascari and Curva Parabolica 11 in the straight line. I will move about the track on Friday for as much as I can. Thursday will be the visit at the garages and drivers signings in the pit lane. A lot of excitement on sight.

Some happy news to close this first post:

Kamui Kobayashi to remain with Formula 1 team Sauber
Japanese driver Kamui Kobayashi is to remain with Sauber for the 2011 season, the Formula 1 team have confirmed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8975347.stm

Kamui is King!

        
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GrahamHill
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:56 am

Thanks for opening the thread, Madame C !

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
On board with Nigel Mansell in 1988

Good old times   

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
Japanese driver Kamui Kobayashi is to remain with Sauber for the 2011 season, the Formula 1 team have confirmed.

Good news! Kamui is a good driver and deserves to continue in F1. Hopefully Sauber will be a bit more competitive next year.

In other news, Lotus and Renault are negociating for engine supplies next year. But Lotus is under contract with Cosworth until 2012, so I don't know if the latter would agree to cancel the contract... Lotus and Renault have already collaborated in the 80s, giving Ayrton Senna his first victories in Formula 1.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86450
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
BlueElephant
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:30 pm

Thanks Madame C for opening the thread.

I'm hoping for a solid result (1-2) for McLaren....

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
On board with Nigel Mansell in 1988

This is both a computer simulation and on the old track...so allow me to add something a bit more relevant...

Onboard with Kimi Raikkonen 2006
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7Is1lKGDco


Two other notes:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86449
A lap of the new Korea track with Karun Chandhok in a Red Bull....
I'm under the opinion that this track is far from ready....doesn't look like there are grandstands or kerbs....it's going to be interesting.

The WMSC meeting on Ferrari is tomorrow....If they get their drivers' points revoked, surely they'll be out of contention for the title. In which case it'll be a 4 (not prancing) horse race...with Mark W and Lewis H in the lead.

[Edited 2010-09-07 06:46:19]
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:31 pm

Lewis Hamilton

“Our victory in Belgium showed that, as a team, we never give up, and that we’ll always bounce back from adversity feeling stronger and more determined than before. This team has such an incredible fighting spirit – we strive to win, and I hope that Spa is only the start of a run of stronger form for us as we head into the final races of the championship.

“I’ve made no secret of my wish to win this race. Monza is an incredible circuit – full of history and stories from the past. It has a special feeling in the air that you don’t find anywhere else in the world. It’s a circuit that inspires you to race at your limit, and I’ll be pushing hard all weekend.

“Finally, I’m looking forward to meeting the Italian fans this weekend. I pretty much grew up racing karts in Italy, so I’ve always appreciated and understood the passion and support of the fans for Formula 1, and motorsport in general.

“Even if it’s not always obvious, I know that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes does have a deep pocket of support in Italy. So I hope the whole team can have another great race at one of the classic tracks in Formula 1.”

  
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GrahamHill
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:12 pm

Not Monza related, but still interesting nonetheless. A lap on the new Korean circuit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIp258UMo5s&feature=player_embedded
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:00 pm

Re the new track in Korea, are they going to add a race next season or will another race disappear from the calendar? I still haven't figured it out.
Koreans work 24/7 I doubt they have social protection like in Europe so the track will probably be finished very quickly with all the equpment and buildings set up, with the grandstands and all.
F1 is taking new directions with these new tracks. I much prefer the old style.   
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tarheelwings
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:12 pm

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 2):
The WMSC meeting on Ferrari is tomorrow....If they get their drivers' points revoked, surely they'll be out of contention for the title

That would be a travesty, let's hope that's not the case. I'm hoping they just stay with the original fine and leave it at that....forza Ferrari!
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:31 pm

Quoting tarheelwings (Reply 6):
That would be a travesty, let's hope that's not the case. I'm hoping they just stay with the original fine and leave it at that....forza Ferrari!

The fine is nothing to Ferrari. If there is only a fine, they will do it again.

I seriously hope Ferrari get their manufacturer's points revoked for this race.
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:03 pm

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 2):
I'm under the opinion that this track is far from ready

Still alot missing by the looks of things.

Not a big deal though, but i wonder why Chandhok was chosen for this event. He doesn't have any connections with RBR or Red Bull. Or am I wrong?
When in doubt, flat out!
 
BlueElephant
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:14 pm

Quoting sudden (Reply 8):

Not a big deal though, but i wonder why Chandhok was chosen for this event. He doesn't have any connections with RBR or Red Bull. Or am I wrong?

No he's still under contract at HRT, but he's not driving and Red Bull drivers (all four of them) had committments.

Quoting tarheelwings (Reply 6):
That would be a travesty, let's hope that's not the case. I'm hoping they just stay with the original fine and leave it at that....forza Ferrari!

As Graham mentioned above I don't think it's fair for them just to get a fine. They should be punished fairly harshly especially given how others have been punished in the past. I'm thinking Drivers and Constructors points get taken away....This will undoubtably put F1 into another scandal with Loco Di Montezemolo or whatever screaming bloody mary, trying to sue the FIA in court....lose and then say Ferrari is leaving F1 and then they won't...and hten they'll proceed to whine about race result until the end of the season.... Add in blaming (mostly) McLaren and (partially) Red Bull in there somewhere as well.
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:15 pm

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 2):
A lap of the new Korea track with Karun Chandhok in a Red Bull...
Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 4):
A lap on the new Korean circuit:

Mmmh, I should learn how to read posts properly....
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
Stealthz
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:57 pm

Quoting sudden (Reply 8):
He doesn't have any connections with RBR or Red Bull. Or am I wrong?

He was part of the Red Bull Driver development program like Vettel and others, this likely entails some sort of ongoing relationship or personal sponsorship.. and he was available

Cheers
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cpd
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:11 am

Predicting McLaren 1-2 finish here, and Force India 3rd and 4th. Renault should also be very strong here too.

I think this won't be one of Redbull's stronger circuits unless they can get some more speed from car in a straight line.
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:17 am

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 10):
Mmmh, I should learn how to read posts properly....

Shame on you!

Quoting stealthz (Reply 11):
He was part of the Red Bull Driver development program like Vettel and others, this likely entails some sort of ongoing relationship or personal sponsorship.. and he was available

Oh ok. Thanks for the info. Or maybe i need to write "Thanks for sharing" 
When in doubt, flat out!
 
waterpolodan
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:07 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 5):
Re the new track in Korea, are they going to add a race next season or will another race disappear from the calendar? I still haven't figured it out.
http://www.formula1.com/races/calendar.html
Check out #17 on this year's calendar and you'll have your answer  . It was added to the 2010 schedule a long time ago, though I must admit I forgot about it until the news started appearing recently that the track might not be ready.
 
tarheelwings
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:09 pm

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 9):
As Graham mentioned above I don't think it's fair for them just to get a fine. They should be punished fairly harshly especially given how others have been punished in the past. I'm thinking Drivers and Constructors points get taken away....This will undoubtably put F1 into another scandal with Loco Di Montezemolo or whatever screaming bloody mary, trying to sue the FIA in court....lose and then say Ferrari is leaving F1 and then they won't...and hten they'll proceed to whine about race result until the end of the season.... Add in blaming (mostly) McLaren and (partially) Red Bull in there somewhere as well

Punished for what? For pointing out to Massa what was pretty clear to everyone else....that Alonso was (and is) the faster driver of the two? I get a kick out of the hypocrisy in Formula 1: team orders endanger the integrity of the sport....  
 
waterpolodan
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:07 pm

Quoting tarheelwings (Reply 15):
Punished for what? For pointing out to Massa what was pretty clear to everyone else....that Alonso was (and is) the faster driver of the two? I get a kick out of the hypocrisy in Formula 1: team orders endanger the integrity of the sport....

It is a stupid rule, and James Allen makes a good point on his blog-
"And for the sake of consistency I would like to know why this German GP incident is such a big deal when Ferrari has twice used team orders which directly – and very publicly – affected the outcome of the world championship, in 2007. Massa let Raikkonen through to win the race and that gave him the championship. Not a single fan or commentator or rival team had a problem with that, but it was just as much a team order as the German GP. The difference is that everyone accepts it in the last race, they don’t accept it at the 11th round of 19.

So let’s be grown up about this. The rule which says “No team orders” is ridiculous and unworkable and we need a sensible, workable alternative to come out of today’s hearing."

The difference in 2007 was of course that there were no radio commands that were so clear in their intent. However, should Ferrari be punished because Smedley's tone was apologetic? That's absurd. They should just eliminate the rule about team orders and be done with it. Maybe ban team orders for the last 2 laps of a race, so we don't have a final corner slowdown like Austria in 2001 and 2002, but they have a place in F1 and always have.
 
waterpolodan
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:20 pm

Verdict is in- While team orders may be on the rule books, they are going to be ignored by the FIA. No further punishment by the FIA beyond the paltry 100,000 fine imposed by the stewards. Although it goes against the letter of the rules, this is the proper verdict. No need to harm this year's exciting championship contest because of a rule that shouldn't be there in the first place, and should have been officially revoked today.
 
BlueElephant
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:43 pm

Quoting tarheelwings (Reply 15):
Punished for what? For pointing out to Massa what was pretty clear to everyone else....that Alonso was (and is) the faster driver of the two? I get a kick out of the hypocrisy in Formula 1: team orders endanger the integrity of the sport....

You haven't been involved in prior discussions, So I'll let you go on this... But it was mentioned a number of times and I think we're all pretty much in agreement that the team orders rule is stupid and has been done by all teams since it was banned....but Ferrari made no attempt to hide the fact.

If you want to get involved in discussions regarding hypocricy, I'm sure you'll find a number of people who will argue that Ferrari have gotten their way (while other teams have been penalized) on a number of occasions. I know you' would have at least ONE fan who always has his Ferrari Blinders on... (Points at EZEIZA...  Silly )

On this occasion...I think the WMSC got it wrong. Yes there was no CLEAR indication that Ferrari used Team Orders illegally but it really was completely blatent and obvious...I must make the cliche statement---> Had this been any other team (in previous years, caveat added)....

[Edited 2010-09-08 10:46:17]
 
tarheelwings
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:00 pm

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 18):
You haven't been involved in prior discussions, So I'll let you go on this... But it was mentioned a number of times and I think we're all pretty much in agreement that the team orders rule is stupid and has been done by all teams since it was banned....but Ferrari made no attempt to hide the fact

If by involvement you mean posting, you are correct, I haven't been involved. I have however been following this forum for quite a while and by the sound of it, we are in agreement that the team orders rule is stupid. As to whether Ferrari made an attempt to hide (or disguise) their order, I think most tifosi would disagree with you.

Let's agree to disagree shall we? Here's to Alonso winning Monza and tightening the points race   
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:48 pm

Another splendid decision by the FIA... How come I was so stupid to think that the contrary could happen?

Quoting waterpolodan (Reply 16):
They should just eliminate the rule about team orders and be done with it

Good! So let's enjoy races where dice are loaded!

Wait, I have a better idea: prior to race start, let's chose the winner by tossing a coin...  

[Edited 2010-09-08 11:59:11]
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:02 pm

Quoting tarheelwings (Reply 19):
Here's to Alonso winning Monza and tightening the points race

No chance. This is going to be a McLaren 1-2.
Not the Ferraris can't be as fast in those straight lines.
I will be there cheering Hammy for the win, Kamui and Pedro for their remarkable efforts with their not so good car.

Tomorrow's the day!
I will have to find a checkered F1 flag on site to have it signed by all. The rumor is that many old/retired drivers will be around, Sir Jackie and many others. Yeeee!!!!

Forza McLaren Numero Uno!!!

Go Hammy!!!!
Go Kamui the King!!!!
Go Pedro!!!!

                          
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sudden
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:13 pm

Quoting tarheelwings (Reply 19):
Let's agree to disagree shall we?

Welcome to the F1 threads.
That said, lets not kick a dead horse.  
It's an endless discussion and we simply have to accept that we who participate in these F1 threads feel different about this rule and the German GP.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86481

Quote:
Formula 1's ban on team orders is to be reviewed after the season following the decision of the FIA not to hand Ferrari any further punishment for breaching the regulations at the German Grand Prix.


I guess this opens the door then. I mean, Ferrari has now set the standard for the team order rule so I bet other teams would like the rule to be scrapped completely so they can start playing around with team orders as well, for free.  
When in doubt, flat out!
 
waterpolodan
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:08 pm

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 20):

Good! So let's enjoy races where dice are loaded!

Wait, I have a better idea: prior to race start, let's chose the winner by tossing a coin...

You know full well that it's been a part of the sport for as long as the sport has existed. The Auto Union and Mercedes teams in the 1930s changed race outcomes with team orders, the Bugatti team did the same in the 20s, it's happened continually throughout the "modern" era starting in 1950, it's a part of the sport. It's not akin to loading the dice, as it's just one team switching their two drivers' running order. If the whole grid had some sort of agreement worked out in advance, then that would be one thing, but this is just for the rare instance where 2 teammates can improve a team's championship challenge by swapping places. It doesn't happen often and it isn't a big deal, it just became a huge thing because of the way that Rubens allowed MSC to pass despite dominating that race in Austria and especially because of MSC's already dominant position in the championship that year (IIRC, he had the title locked down with 4 races left in the season). If that hadn't happened, and if this weren't Ferrari involved once again, it wouldn't be such a big deal. In 2008 at Hockenheim, Hamilton had to pass Kovalainen to have a chance to attack the leaders after his pitstop. The team told Heikki, and he duly pulled over. Nothing was said about that, and the incident was forgotten. It was exactly the same thing, yet it ended up costing Massa the championship as if Lewis had to fight for the position, he wouldn't have had time to get past the other cars ahead of him. I didn't have a problem with it, as it was Mclaren playing their strategic cards just right, as Ferrari had done to beat them to the title in 2007 with Massa and Raikkonen at Interlagos. It happens, and there's no way to regulate it, so we need to live with it and accept it as part of this being a team sport.
 
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cpd
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:22 am

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/508...lder-park-not-eyeing-australian-gp

Speaking of team orders... And it seems Dr Helmut Marko is unpleased at McLaren's criticism of Vettel as F1's 'crash kid'.

Sebastian Buemi is also reportedly targeting Mark Webber's seat at Redbull. Never mind the fact that Webber has won more races than anyone else this year.  Yeah sure

[Edited 2010-09-08 21:43:00]
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:15 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 24):
Sebastian Buemi is also reportedly targeting Mark Webber's seat at Redbull

Can't blame him for aiming higher though. As far as I know RBR's line-up for next season is done deal, so not sure when Buemi was to take over?  
When in doubt, flat out!
 
bill142
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:05 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 24):

Good to know that Calder park isn't interested in the GP. If I recall correctly, a V8 supercar, circa 1998 could do a lap there in under a minute. So who knows how fast a modern F1 car could do it in. Alan Jones FW7 did in 39.6 on the short circuit.

Quoting sudden (Reply 25):
Can't blame him for aiming higher though. As far as I know RBR's line-up for next season is done deal, so not sure when Buemi was to take over?

Think he's aiming for 2012. Unless Webber wins the championship this year and pulls the pin.
 
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:36 am

Quoting waterpolodan (Reply 23):
If the whole grid had some sort of agreement worked out in advance, then that would be one thing, but this is just for the rare instance where 2 teammates can improve a team's championship challenge by swapping places.



IMHO, that really depends. Given it's a team sport, the very concept of making team orders illegal is simply preposterous. However, as the rules stand, they are illegal (even if the rule is unenforceable). Let's hope the FIA clarifies the situation before Sunday's race.

But, back to your point. I do have a problem where a TEAM claims that swapping its drivers gives that TEAM a better result. It didn't in the German GP - Ferrari were running 1-2 and finished 1-2, the points that the Ferrari TEAM scored were the same regardless of the order in which its drivers finished. The real question is, should the TEAM be more interested in the TEAM result, or the result for an individual driver? It seems to me that Ferrari are more interested in the driver's championship than the constructor's.

If team orders are to be made "less illegal", then it's a moot point, but swapping driver order without changing the TEAM result is clear manipulation of the race result. However, I don't see telling drivers to maintain order near the end of a race as the same thing, as that is an order for the benefit of the TEAM (ask Red Bull!)
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
BlueElephant
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:24 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 27):
Let's hope the FIA clarifies the situation before Sunday's race.

Oh They clarified something... http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86508
FIA: Ferrari used Illegal team orders....But can't be punished.


P.S. Can anyone count the number of engines everyone has remaining? Is it just me or does Alonso only have 1 remaining for the rest of the season...
 
bill142
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:10 am

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 28):
P.S. Can anyone count the number of engines everyone has remaining? Is it just me or does Alonso only have 1 remaining for the rest of the season...

This article seem to suggest that Alonso has used 6 out of 8 engines.
http://richardsf1.com/2010/09/07/alo...confident-despite-lack-of-engines/
 
Stealthz
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:39 pm

So the F1 status quo is maintained...
Ferrari gets a couple of free passes-
1/ Team orders, while they agree that the rule was broken no more than a slap on the wrist! Even after determining that both drivers were told to turn their engines down, then Alonso was told to speed up again, then advising FM that FA was faster! I agree the rule needs some revision(or perhaps abolishing) but the Scuderia broke it.. no argument(little even from them!)
2/ Missing a grid position,
-Massa claiming he sits too low in the car to see his grid box, sorry Felipe, if you want to play with the big boys you need to sit up and pay attention!
-FIA, claiming they only learnt of this transgression after video footage was shown to them after the event... come on be serious, they have several "judges of fact" on the grid to observe and electronic devices to indicate placement, TV commentators were discussing this issue before the red lights went out! (Charlie W, you dropped the ball big time, maybe time for a new Tech director/starter)

And this ..."FIA president Jean Todt says motor racing's governing body could not hand Ferrari any further sanctions for using team orders at the German Grand Prix, because there was not enough evidence to prove it had broken the rules."

He was not even at the hearing but then we have a pretty good idea where his sympathies may lie

Seems the FIA is again becoming an acronym for ... oh better not mention that it gets people upset!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
BlueElephant
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:43 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZeGbQ0fojo
Autosport looks at F1 2010 (the game) in depth.
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:21 pm

Interesting quali to say the least.
Ferrari really on the ball this weekend. Hamilton looking so strong in Q1 and Q2, but only manages P5 when it counts!
RBR to be found first on row 3!
All set for an interesting race tomorrow.
When in doubt, flat out!
 
bill142
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:50 pm

Button should have Alonso off the line. Should make for an interesting start to the race.
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:26 pm

Quoting bill142 (Reply 33):
Button should have Alonso off the line. Should make for an interesting start to the race.

Massa's job for tomorrow will be to slow down Hamilton and Webber.
When in doubt, flat out!
 
MIAspotter
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:31 pm

Quoting sudden (Reply 34):
Massa's job for tomorrow will be to slow down Hamilton and Webber.

Can he comfirm that he understand the message?

Good job to Alonso, glad to see a Ferrari on pole again, should be an interesting start of the race tomorrow.

MIAspotter.
Nos vamos de Vueling?
 
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Aesma
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:36 pm

I don't think Ferrari is at the right place, I feel they're pushing the engines hard, expect a failure tomorrow, or a quite slower pace.

I'm glad Button is in first line, but he could have made it to P1, too bad !

Big mistake for Hamilton, let's hope his ambitious aero configuration will allow him to pass some cars, and not end up out of the track like last year.

About the engines, the French commentators said the Ferraris have their 8th and last new ones, so every other GP should be with used ones.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
waterpolodan
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:13 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 36):
I don't think Ferrari is at the right place, I feel they're pushing the engines hard, expect a failure tomorrow, or a quite slower pace.

That's sort of silly, they have rev limiters so there really is no way for them to push the engines harder than they do at any other track. Also, they've been very competitive at the fast tracks this year so I don't see any reason to think that they are pushing too hard and might compromise their reliability, they've just optimized their high speed aero package and just in time too for their home race.

It's a very interesting grid tomorrow, both Alonso and Button need to finish in the top 2 and preferably win the race to keep themselves in the championship hunt, so neither will be content to cruise around in 2nd or 3rd without pushing the car ahead. Button should have a good shot off the line, but Massa might also sneak in there like in Germany, though obviously we know that if Fernando is in the hunt Massa won't be winning the race. Perhaps the most interesting grouping on the grid are Webber, Hamilton, and Vettel in 4-5-6. It made me smile to see Webber outqualify Vettel again, it's time for the team to state unequivocally that Mark is the #1 and Vettel needs to go into a supporting role. Mark will hopefully be able to hold off Lewis at the start, and if he does it'll be interesting to see if Seb crashes into another Mclaren attempting a botched overtake, as that would really open the championship wide open for Mark and possibly Button/Alonso as well. Very excited for the race, it should be a classic.
 
baroque
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:18 pm

Quoting sudden (Reply 34):
Quoting bill142 (Reply 33):
Button should have Alonso off the line. Should make for an interesting start to the race.

Massa's job for tomorrow will be to slow down Hamilton and Webber.

Nah, they will be "relying" on Vettel to demolish part of the field. Trouble is working out which part he will demolish.
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:02 pm

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 35):
Can he comfirm that he understand the message?

What is that supposed to mean? He very kindly moved over in Germany. And what his boss says, goes.
Not that I have heard that he will be breaking the others, but I can well imagine that this will be his main duty tomorrow.

I think Button will have a pretty hard task during the run to turn 1 as not only will he have to try and overtake Alonso, but he also needs to prevent Massa from overtaking him.
When in doubt, flat out!
 
MIAspotter
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:59 pm

Quoting sudden (Reply 39):
What is that supposed to mean?

Nothing, just trying to add some sarcasm. 

MIAspotter
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MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:16 pm

Third day at the racing track in the middle of the Monza madness.
Huge crowds. Never seen so many people.
Ferrari fans by the thousands. They own the place:
I am becoming more and more a small teams supporter.
Pictures to come: I think I will have some interesting stuff.
Got to spend time with Sebastian Vettel..... strangely enough....
Did not see Hammy or Kamui or Pedro other than on the racing track.
Today i was at the turn at the Parabolica though I had two fences on my nose.
I think this one will be a Ferrari win.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
codeshare
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:33 pm

Damn those two Nicos - Kubica is 9th by just an inch... shouldn't have risked with the tyres.
Alonso was so happy to get the pole that his overconfidence might turn into a P2 or worse in the race perhaps. No exciting session for the Bulls. Not a track for them. I think for an interesting championship battle I'd like Button to win and then Alonso or Hamilton followed by Massa and Webber and then the Polish guy   . Button's setup and driving style could prove to be a good combination.

The start will be most interesting Button and Hamilton must surge ahead of Alonso if they want to fight for the win and of course before the first chicane.

Now what could happen if Massa gets ahead of Alonso .... ?

KS/codeshare
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Aesma
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:49 pm

Quoting waterpolodan (Reply 37):
That's sort of silly, they have rev limiters so there really is no way for them to push the engines harder than they do at any other track. Also, they've been very competitive at the fast tracks this year so I don't see any reason to think that they are pushing too hard and might compromise their reliability, they've just optimized their high speed aero package and just in time too for their home race.

Of course there is, it's called engine maps, mainly. Especially this year we often hear the engineers telling the pilots to put this or that setting.

There is some chatter in the paddock that they in fact introduced a new engine modification, which would be "legal".

[Edited 2010-09-11 14:50:49]
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
EZEIZA
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:12 pm

Well, I'm obviously late in the thread (it's been a hell of a week!), but I see that some are stil claiming the Ferrari assitance .. right. Check out how the season has been overall and I'm sure you'll see that it's not the case.

Anyway, back to more serius stuff, I was impressed with the Ferraris in the qualis. Alonso had also been fast on Friday, but that means nothing, so when Massa and Alonso were up there in the first two sessions today I actually believed thy had a chance in finally getting a pole, and Alonso did an outstanding first lap in Q3. Lh though was close, and could have made it but he had a very smal mistake inat the beginning of hos last lap, but he'll be fast tomorrow for sure.
ABout the engines, the tv commentator here mentioned Alonso is running on his 8th engine, while the rest of the grid is on the 6th with the exception of one driver that I don't recall right now.

Can't wait for tomorrow! I'm sure Madame C is having a blast  
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:00 am

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 40):
Nothing, just trying to add some sarcasm

Sorry, my bad.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 43):
Of course there is, it's called engine maps, mainly. Especially this year we often hear the engineers telling the pilots to put this or that setting

True, but all the teams are running more or less the same mapping as during quali they need all the juice they can get.
Ferrari looks set to be right up there today, and I don't see any reason to why they specifically should have any engine failure.
When in doubt, flat out!
 
MIAspotter
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:05 pm

WOW WOW WOW!!! what a start!!!

Button passed Alonso and Hamilton is OUT!!!!

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andz
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:06 pm

Well that's the end of Hamilton.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
Springbok747
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:06 pm

Wohoooo! Lewis is out on lap 1..great start by Button though!
אני תומך בישראל
 
MIAspotter
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RE: F1 2010: Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:14 pm

Quoting andz (Reply 47):
Well that's the end of Hamilton.

Yup, he did not looked too happy walking into his motorhome.



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