Ken777
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Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:38 am

Looks like the Tea Party is kicking out more "Traditional Republicans".

Quote:
Christine O'Donnell, a "tea party"-backed long-shot candidate, stunned the Republican establishment Tuesday night by defeating nine-term Rep. Michael N. Castle in Delaware's GOP Senate primary, one of the most shocking upsets in an already tumultuous primary season.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn.../AR2010091407063.html?hpid=topnews

There can be little doubt that there are some major changes in the Party that was traditionally Middle to Middle Right, with a smattering of Hard Right.

Now it appears that moderates, or slightly right, are not wanted. Don't meet the new standards being set this year.

The question is just how far these two parties will go together, and how far they will split some time in the future.

My bet is that the Tea Party will take the lead up to the 2012 election and Palin will be their Presidential candidate.

If she wins the Tea Party has a 2 to 6 year run leading the Republicans. If she does not win then the Republicans will take over their party again.
 
BMI727
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:45 am

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
My bet is that the Tea Party will take the lead up to the 2012 election and Palin will be their Presidential candidate.

Sounds like a great way to make Obama a two term president.
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NIKV69
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:05 am

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
My bet is that the Tea Party will take the lead up to the 2012 election and Palin will be their Presidential candidate.

Though she is probably considering it she won't run. Even if her endorsements do good it doesn't mean she is any more viable. Maybe in the view of Chris Matthews and the other haters who can't stand her because she brings out the people who the left loathe. I am sure the GOP's nominee will still be someone else.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
Sounds like a great way to make Obama a two term president.

Actually it would save Obama's worthless rearend. Depending on how things go in the mid term and what he does in 2011 the GOP's best chance of beating him is someone like Scott Brown or Chris Christie. Christie was actually embraced by Tammy Bruce so he has definately arrived and has is a lot more electable than Palin. He is becoming the darling of the media mostly because he can't be had in a gotcha interview. He destroys every interview and more his star rises I think if the GOP can nudge him he will entertain a run. If he can fix Corzines mess fast enough.
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fr8mech
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:40 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
Sounds like a great way to make Obama a two term president.

Actually it would save Obama's worthless rearend.

I tend to agree here. If Obama moderates during the second two years of this term, he may well get a 2nd term. For some reason, he is still likable. Large GOP victories (taking back The House and bringing The Senate to parity) will either force Obama to moderate or we will see a 2 year-lame-duck presidency.

As for the Tea Party movement taking over the GOP: I can't say I'm glad to see O'Donnell win in Delaware (Castle would have locked up the seat), it does show that there is an active element in the GOP that wants to bring the party 'leaders' back to the right a little bit. Call it a correction. Too many so called Republicans are really just hard-right leaning Democrats. This 'correction' is just flushing them out. You can be sure that Snow and Collins would have been flushed if they were up for election this time around.

Again, to me, a Republican that votes with the party 70%+ of the time is a lot better than a Democrat that votes with his party 70%+ of the time. But that's just me.

November will be interesting. The next 2 years even more so, if the election goes the way the polls are predicting.
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avent
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:05 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
Maybe in the view of Chris Matthews and the other haters
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
Actually it would save Obama's worthless rearend.

 

In any case, as to whether the Tea Party is taking over the Republican Party, who knows. If all it takes is the throwing money at a few races, then any motivated group can have an impact; if the Republican response is to move further to the Right, then the Tea Party would be effectively controlling the Republicans.

As I see it, the problem for modern Republicans is that the Tea Party is the logical culmination of their hatred of government and mean-spirited opposition to anything that works the the betterment of society. Their own rhetoric created the environment needed by the tea party extremists to thrive and overtake them.
 
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:32 am

Why don't they make Dr. Frasier Crane the Presidential candidate?
 
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:48 am

Quoting avent (Reply 4):

As I see it, the problem for modern Republicans is that the Tea Party is the logical culmination of their hatred of government and mean-spirited opposition to anything that works the the betterment of society.

That's a bunch of horsedung. The Tea Party is about one thing and one thing only: catchphrases. "Big Gummit." "Damn Liberals." "Don't trust scientists or other smart people." etc. There is no coherent political ideology.
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NIKV69
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:54 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
If Obama moderates during the second two years of this term, he may well get a 2nd term. For some reason, he is still likable. Large GOP victories (taking back The House and bringing The Senate to parity) will either force Obama to moderate or we will see a 2 year-lame-duck presidency.

This is what will be very interesting. If the GOP takes the house and enough seats in the Senate to block much of the far left legislation he is going to have change course. Another drawn out war with the other side will not bode will for the DNC. It's hard to predict what the independents will do. Of course the far left will go crazy. The salon.coms and firedoglake.coms will ratchet up the hate and we can probably see Bernie Sanders putting on a freak show every day. Grayson too if he is lucky enough to get elected again. No matter what happens though if Obama doesn't extend all the tax cuts and the economy doesn't improve he is toast. Donald Duck could run against him and win.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
As for the Tea Party movement taking over the GOP: I can't say I'm glad to see O'Donnell win in Delaware (Castle would have locked up the seat), it does show that there is an active element in the GOP that wants to bring the party 'leaders' back to the right a little bit. Call it a correction. Too many so called Republicans are really just hard-right leaning Democrats. This 'correction' is just flushing them out. You can be sure that Snow and Collins would have been flushed if they were up for election this time around.

This is a tough one, I mean we basically have what happened in Nevada here but I don't think O'Donnell is going to poll as good as Angle has. Delaware isn't Nevada. I don't see her winning this seat and she will disappear into obscurity. Our play is Fiorina, Rubio and Angle. Where we have a real chance at winning. I don't think it's a shift more like a piss poor turnout in a small state that knows they were losing in Nov either way.

Quoting avent (Reply 4):
If all it takes is the throwing money at a few races, then any motivated group can have an impact; if the Republican response is to move further to the Right, then the Tea Party would be effectively controlling the Republicans.

Doubtful, you are still giving the tea party more credit than they deserve. Have they made a difference? Sure but just because a whack in Delaware won a primary with no turnout doesn't mean as much as Rachel Maddow would lead you too believe. Scott Brown's victory was a bit more of a upset.

Quoting avent (Reply 4):
As I see it, the problem for modern Republicans is that the Tea Party is the logical culmination of their hatred of government and mean-spirited opposition to anything that works the the betterment of society. Their own rhetoric created the environment needed by the tea party extremists to thrive and overtake them

They don't hate government, they hate too much government. Your taking the bait Maddow is feeding you into thinking that every tea party member is some nutjob libertarian. It's not true. It also has nothing to do with the betterment of society. This is also a talking point the left media is trying to feed you. The tea party is become active because we have a president who is dangerously running this country down a bad road.

[Edited 2010-09-15 00:29:51]
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fr8mech
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:23 am

Quoting avent (Reply 4):
As I see it, the problem for modern Republicans is that the Tea Party is the logical culmination of their hatred of government and mean-spirited opposition to anything that works the the betterment of society.

Whoa, whoa, whoa there cowboy. The Tea Party folks don't hate government. They hate big, intrusive, wasteful, inefficient, etc. government. As for the betterment of society, they, and I, don't believe that the policies put in place by a nanny-state government are for the betterment of its people. Those policies may be for the betterment of the government and the party that institutes them, but certainly not the people.
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:21 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 7):
Scott Brown's victory was a bit more of a upset.

And let's remember that if the Democratic candidate hadn't been a complete idiot and campaigned like crap after not campaigning at all, Scott Brown would likely be "that guy who ran in Massachusetts" instead of the household name he is. He may be a big name in the GOP, but whether he can win a big election when his opponent is actually making an effort remains to be seen.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 7):
They don't hate government, they hate too much government.
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 8):
The Tea Party folks don't hate government. They hate big, intrusive, wasteful, inefficient, etc. government.

Is it that, or is it that they hate government that doesn't do what they want? I suspect that when push came to shove, they'd have no problem with intrusive government as long as it was to the detriment of things they don't like, and they'd be much more accepting of government waste as long as those in power claimed to share their views.

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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:01 pm

A natural beneficiary of populist resentment toward establishment politicians. I call it Perot Syndrome.

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
My bet is that the Tea Party will take the lead up to the 2012 election and Palin will be their Presidential candidate.

They win a few primaries and your ready to anoint the next coming?   
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:12 pm

And I consider it not a BAD thing.

Why? Because let's face it: the size of government is TOO big and the income tax system in the USA is too complex and ends up driving jobs, factories, corporate headquarters and likely way over US$10 TRILLION in American-owned liquid assets out of the USA as an income tax avoidance measure. This is economic insanity, in my humble opinion.   

Hopefully, the influence of the Tea Party movement will finally force Congress to fix the income tax system and to seriously look at auditing every Federal, state and local government agency for bureaucratic overlap and agency bloat so we can reduce the size of government by at least 30%, which would free up more private money for other economic activities.
 
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:45 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 11):
the size of government is TOO big

Smaller than most industrialized nations.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 11):
the income tax system in the USA is too complex

The income tax system is really quite simple. Make X? Pay Y. Qualify for credits? claim them. Easy. The federal tax system is easier than the football rule book. (Ask a Lions fan.)

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 11):
ends up driving jobs, factories, corporate headquarters and likely way over US$10 TRILLION in American-owned liquid assets out of the USA as an income tax avoidance measure.

False. The thing driving outsourcing is that Indians, Mexicans, and Chinese are significantly cheaper than Americans. That's it, the sole reason.



****************


But back to the actual topic, yes, the Tea Party is taking over the GOP. They don't have the power to make their own political party, so they're hijacking another one. It's actually a pretty good plan for gaining a party, but a pretty terrible plan for gaining seats in Congress. And as much as a certain poster wants to suggest otherwise, Palin IS running. That's why she's trying to put her people in power now. She's building her network in all 50 states.
 
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:55 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 12):
The income tax system is really quite simple. Make X? Pay Y. Qualify for credits? claim them. Easy. The federal tax system is easier than the football rule book. (Ask a Lions fan.)

You are kidding me, right? There is a WHOLE lot more to the tax code than that. There is a chance that your taxes may not be all that complex, but for a whole lot of people--and especially businesses--it is VERY complex. If it wasn't there would be no stinckin' multi-billion dollar Tax services industry.
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:58 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 12):
False. The thing driving outsourcing is that Indians, Mexicans, and Chinese are significantly cheaper than Americans. That's it, the sole reason.

Laughable. Americans take no part in tax havens, huh?
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
PPVRA
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:09 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 11):
auditing every Federal, state and local government agency

The GAO disclaims an opinion on the US Government financials every year and has always done tat as far as I know. It is just too massive of an organization to audit.

And there's a sh!t load of problems. . .
http://blog-pfm.imf.org/pfmblog/2010...overnment-financial-reporting.html

No private organization would get away with even a fraction of this.

Here's what a disclaimer of an opinion means:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditor's_report

[Edited 2010-09-15 07:19:26]

[Edited 2010-09-15 07:20:01]
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:34 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 7):
The tea party is become active because we have a president who is dangerously running this country down a bad road.

Wrong. The Tea Party happened almost as soon as Obama was elected. Before he had done anything. At that point, some people had the foregone conclusion that "Left=Bad." At that point, EVERYTHING Obama did, including ordering dijon mustard on a burger, was bad.

Now, at this point, Obama has proven himself to be ineffective. I'll grant you that. But dangerous? Hardly.
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D L X
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:50 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
Obama has proven himself to be ineffective.

Just to make sure NIKV and others know, most people do not agree with Doc on this.
 
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:34 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
Wrong. The Tea Party happened almost as soon as Obama was elected. Before he had done anything. At that point, some people had the foregone conclusion that "Left=Bad." At that point, EVERYTHING Obama did, including ordering dijon mustard on a burger, was bad.

The tea party had nothing to do with Obama - it had everything to do with the GOP. In the 80s and 90s, the Republicans were fairly conservative fiscally. Reagan had to deal with a Democratic Congress that couldn't cut spending. The GOP under Gingrich had Congress during the Clinton era, and that was beneficial for all. But around 2000, the GOP moved a little left (Remember "compassionate conservatism"? That was just a code word for progressive republicans.) GWB was not a conservative in the mold of Reagan or Gingrich, and neither were the republicans who controlled Congress at the time. Fiscal responsibility and restraint were not there (it was better than what we have now, but still not what it should have been). The GOP got booted for it in 2006 for that, and again in 2008 when it ran McCain, another progressive republican (he tried to talk like a conservative, but his record was clear).

The people don't want a choice between Progressive and Progressive Lite. Polls show that there are twice as many conservatives in the US as there are liberals. The only reason liberals win elections is when conservatives stay home, because they do not see a conservative candidate. I know a lot of people who didn't bother voting in 2008 - why bother, when both choices were just about as bad as the other?

If the Tea Party does gain control over the GOP and returns the party to its root beliefs (namely fiscal conservatism, fiscal conservatism and fiscal conservatism), it will be a good thing, because after many years people will finally have a real choice.
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avent
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:36 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
That's a bunch of horsedung. The Tea Party is about one thing and one thing only: catchphrases. "Big Gummit." "Damn Liberals." "Don't trust scientists or other smart people." etc. There is no coherent political ideology.

Touche!

  
 
NIKV69
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:36 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
And let's remember that if the Democratic candidate hadn't been a complete idiot and campaigned like crap after not campaigning at all, Scott Brown would likely be "that guy who ran in Massachusetts" instead of the household name he is. He may be a big name in the GOP, but whether he can win a big election when his opponent is actually making an effort remains to be seen

No, actually it was a smack in the face to the health care bill. Which had already been tried in MA and was met with the same disdain. If you want to think that Brown won only because the candidate went on vacation right before the election go right ahead but your lying to yourself.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 10):
They win a few primaries and your ready to anoint the next coming?

They have to say this as a way to explain away why they are losing hold, it's all they have. They can't admit the country has rejected them. So they have to invent scenarios like if your against us your racist. That Rush is leading the GOP. That the tea party is taking over the GOP. It's lunacy.

Quoting D L X (Reply 12):
Smaller than most industrialized nations

We need to keep it that way.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
But dangerous? Hardly

Well only the fact that some level headede Dems prevented him from really passing some dangerous legislation has lessened the blow but if Pelosi passed what she really wanted we would have been in a bad way, real bad.

Quoting D L X (Reply 17):
Just to make sure NIKV and others know, most people do not agree with Doc on this.

Yes and they will be giving their concession speeches on that first Tuesday ini November.
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:42 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
Is it that, or is it that they hate government that doesn't do what they want? I suspect that when push came to shove, they'd have no problem with intrusive government as long as it was to the detriment of things they don't like, and they'd be much more accepting of government waste as long as those in power claimed to share their views.

Yes!! Go back and look at how the right defends Patriot Act and how much Bush balooned the government after 2001. When anyone spoke out against it, it was usually a right-winger telling those of us who wanted no part of the huge spending spree that we were the terrorists because we were against what the president was doing to defend this country. All of a sudden, we get a Dem in office and all the spending is the worst possible thing, according to right-wingers who had been defending spending.

Are the tea people taking over the Republican party? Yes. Some even think they can run on their own and defeat the Dems. I think the Dems will still have a majority in both houses come November because those tea people running in primaries that lose will huff a bit then run on their own and suck votes away from Republicans. The left will stand strong and keep a majority because of this.
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:50 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
Maybe in the view of Chris Matthews and the other haters who can't stand her because she brings out the people who the left loathe. I am sure the GOP's nominee will still be someone else.

Yep, she's a good pot-stirrer, but unless she's done a whole s*itload of studing or gotten a brain transplant she just doesn't have what it takes.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Too many so called Republicans are really just hard-right leaning Democrats. This 'correction' is just flushing them out.

So, who is the prototypical real Republican these days? GHWB? GWB? RR?

You can't really count a lot of the current darlings because they haven't done it yet.

Like Obama, they will find that campaign rhetoric only takes you so far.

Once you have the job, you'll find out just how beholden the Congress is to special interests and their own re-electability, not your master plan.

Quoting avent (Reply 4):
As I see it, the problem for modern Republicans is that the Tea Party is the logical culmination of their hatred of government and mean-spirited opposition to anything that works the the betterment of society. Their own rhetoric created the environment needed by the tea party extremists to thrive and overtake them.

I kinda agree, but think those on the right have a different idea of the betterment of society.

Note that we have never seen the federal government shrink in any meaningful way under any recent administration, Republican or Democrat.

As Abe Lincoln said, too many piglets, not enough teats...

And the last balanced budget was submitted by none other than Bill Clinton...

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 7):
This is what will be very interesting. If the GOP takes the house and enough seats in the Senate to block much of the far left legislation he is going to have change course.

What far left legislation are you referring to?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 7):
They don't hate government, they hate too much government.

If they are like most on the right, they like big government too, they just don't want to admit it.

They prefer to spend the money on the military, the spies, the police and the border guards instead of on social programs, but they do not have any realistic plan that would substantially reduce the size of government.

They just keep saying "less government" in the same way Obama kept saying "change" - a philosophical construct that's hard to argue with but with no real plan or ability to implement it.

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
Is it that, or is it that they hate government that doesn't do what they want? I suspect that when push came to shove, they'd have no problem with intrusive government as long as it was to the detriment of things they don't like, and they'd be much more accepting of government waste as long as those in power claimed to share their views.

  

Witness the passing of the "Patriot Act" by GHWB's administration, which is all about intrusive government.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 10):
A natural beneficiary of populist resentment toward establishment politicians. I call it Perot Syndrome.

Yep, last time we needed "change", now we need "less government". Not hard to tap the sentiment, very hard to actually do something about it.

Quoting D L X (Reply 12):
But back to the actual topic, yes, the Tea Party is taking over the GOP. They don't have the power to make their own political party, so they're hijacking another one.

Good point.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
At that point, EVERYTHING Obama did, including ordering dijon mustard on a burger, was bad.

Well, he did pick Bud Lite for the "Beer Summit"! 

You're the leader of the free world, man!

You can have any damn beer you want, and you pick Bud Lite?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
Now, at this point, Obama has proven himself to be ineffective. I'll grant you that. But dangerous? Hardly.

Ineffective relative to his campaign rhetoric, sure, but that's to be expected.

This whole Tea Party thing has been entertaining to watch, especially as we see the Old Guard Replicans left twisting in the wind, but it amounts to nothing more than a tempest in a teapot.

Even if the Tea Party types managed the miracle of taking 10% - 20% of Congress this year, within two years we'll be talking about how "ineffective" they've been.

And those Tea Party types will be focusing on how to get re-elected, and will convince themselves that they need the corporate dollars to fill their campaign chests.

I hope I'm wrong, but I really doubt it.
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avent
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:53 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 7):
Quoting avent (Reply 4):
If all it takes is the throwing money at a few races, then any motivated group can have an impact; if the Republican response is to move further to the Right, then the Tea Party would be effectively controlling the Republicans.

Doubtful, you are still giving the tea party more credit than they deserve. Have they made a difference? Sure but just because a whack in Delaware won a primary with no turnout doesn't mean as much as Rachel Maddow would lead you too believe. Scott Brown's victory was a bit more of a upset.

No I am not. If the republican response is to move further to the right, then the tea party deserves appropriate credit for controlling the republicans. It's too early to say from an election perspective, but there are clear signs the republican rhetoric has been increasingly of a shrill rightwing form in the past few years, so they are having some influence; whether it rises to the level of controlling republican election concerns is something else.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 7):
They don't hate government, they hate too much government. Your taking the bait Maddow is feeding you into thinking that every tea party member is some nutjob libertarian. It's not true.

No, they hate government. If they hated too much government they'd be opposed to the huge military spending we make, and not just social programs. They actually love big goverment when it comes to military contracts and waging wars and stuff that gets the patriotic juices flowing.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 7):
The tea party is become active because we have a president who is dangerously running this country down a bad road.

They became active because a black, right of center (and hence 'moderate' in american terms) man became president. They had little problem with an inarticulate buffoon being a corporate puppet running the Whitehouse; they had little problem with him waging 2 wars simultaneously which re-invigorated corporate and military welfare after the post Cold War doldrums; and they had little problem with him wrecking the economy and not raising taxes to pay for his military adventures. So there is not a grain of truth to the self serving myth they are active because a democrat is ruining the country; the country was well on the way to being ruined before Obama, and so their claims in this regard simply ring hollow.
 
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:00 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 23):
They became active because a black, right of center (and hence 'moderate' in american terms) man became president.

Can we stop with the race baiting? Your telling me if John Kerry had won and was doing the same thing the tea party would never have spoken out? Of course not, they are protesting his policy, not his skin color. As for your right of center remark your way off base as well. He is as far left as Pelosi. You just don't see it because he isn't as confrontational as she is. He isn't anywhere near the center.
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:04 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
In the 80s and 90s, the Republicans were fairly conservative fiscally.

False. Reagan was all about deficit spending, lest we forget. The national debt skyrocketed under him. His goal was basically to outspend the Soviets into the ground. We only forgive his fiscally unconservative ways because he succeeded in killing the USSR, and because the negative effects of laissez faire government did not rear their ugly heads until 2008.
 
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:18 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
In the 80s and 90s, the Republicans were fairly conservative fiscally.

Hmm... Carter cancelled the B-1A, Reagan brought back the B-1B and started building the 500 ship Navy, starting with bringing four battleships out of mothballs. Fiscally conservative? Hardly. As above, one can say it was worth it (or not) but one can't keep saying the GOP is fiscally conservative, it just isn't born out by facts.

However, the Congress of that era did take a mean whack at the college grants/loans programs, which means I could not afford the education today that I got in the early 80s.

I feel sorry for today's kids...

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 20):
That the tea party is taking over the GOP. It's lunacy.

I don't think a primary win or two means the Tea Party is taking over the GOP, but there's no denying that it creates huge problems for the Old Guard Republicans.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 21):
Yes!! Go back and look at how the right defends Patriot Act and how much Bush balooned the government after 2001. When anyone spoke out against it, it was usually a right-winger telling those of us who wanted no part of the huge spending spree that we were the terrorists because we were against what the president was doing to defend this country. All of a sudden, we get a Dem in office and all the spending is the worst possible thing, according to right-wingers who had been defending spending.

  

Quoting avent (Reply 23):
If they hated too much government they'd be opposed to the huge military spending we make, and not just social programs. They actually love big goverment when it comes to military contracts and waging wars and stuff that gets the patriotic juices flowing.

  

They are just playing to a different audience.

Quoting avent (Reply 23):
They had little problem with an inarticulate buffoon being a corporate puppet running the Whitehouse; they had little problem with him waging 2 wars simultaneously which re-invigorated corporate and military welfare after the post Cold War doldrums; and they had little problem with him wrecking the economy and not raising taxes to pay for his military adventures.

  

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 24):
Can we stop with the race baiting? Your telling me if John Kerry had won and was doing the same thing the tea party would never have spoken out? Of course not, they are protesting his policy, not his skin color.

Then explain the Birthers to me...
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:22 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 26):
Then explain the Birthers to me...

We have whacks in both parties. I mean how do you explain the truthers?
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avent
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:22 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 8):
Quoting avent (Reply 4):
As I see it, the problem for modern Republicans is that the Tea Party is the logical culmination of their hatred of government and mean-spirited opposition to anything that works the the betterment of society.

Whoa, whoa, whoa there cowboy. The Tea Party folks don't hate government. They hate big, intrusive, wasteful, inefficient, etc. government.

Especially when being led by a black manchurian imposter without a birth-certificate apparently.  

But seriously, the problem with the hating waste and inefficiency, is there will always be waste and inefficiency with all governments; that's the price we pay to achieve goals and objectives only governments can accomplish, and so the wastefulness and inefficiency argument is without merit unless one wants to totally abolish government.

The concern about intrusion is not exclusive to the tea party, and so it cannot be a defining charactistic for them.

Big Government has become a catch word for smearing the democrats; as we have just seen from the GWB years, the rightwing is just as capable of growing government as the leftwing.

Big Government is what allows us to operate the huge military we have, and to oversee huge national infrastructures and a complex legal system. We are a nation of 300+ million people, that can't be run from a coffee shop.

Strictly speaking there is no problem with Big Government if we as a society think it is functioning well and if we perceive us getting value for our taxes.

The tea party can scream and kick and yell all it likes, and it can pretend the problem is with government, but all they are doing is deluding themselves, since the people get the leaders they vote for; everyone hates congress but they support their own crook. That's not a problem with government; that's a problem with the voter.
 
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:29 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 24):
Can we stop with the race baiting? Your telling me if John Kerry had won and was doing the same thing the tea party would never have spoken out?

Race baiting? How many demands for birth certificates were made of white candidates?
 
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:37 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 24):
As for your right of center remark your way off base as well. He is as far left as Pelosi. You just don't see it because he isn't as confrontational as she is. He isn't anywhere near the center.

When faced with a mess on Wall Street and a need to boost the economy, what was his first effort? Bail out the corporations. That's hardly a leftwing position. The delusion that Obama is leftist is only one that an insular nation could seriously entertain. By the rest of the world's standards, Obama is right of center. Put another way, he's only leftist because american conservatives are so far to the right.
 
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:39 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 29):
Race baiting? How many demands for birth certificates were made of white candidates?

Who cares? Sure the fringe has some racists but to say everyone who opposes him is a racist is BS. Every time opposition to Obama gains strength the race card is thrown out there. The left has the same bunch of whacks who hated Bush because he was a good ol boy from Texas and they do it to the point where they say he planned 9/11 and planted bombs in the WTC. Yet you ignore that. Give me a break.
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:46 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 27):
We have whacks in both parties. I mean how do you explain the truthers?

It doesn't seem to me the truthers are predominately left wing, whereas the birthers seem to me to largely be right wing.

At least it seems the right wing radio talk show hosts seem to love to keep the birther thing going.
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:55 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 31):
Quoting avent (Reply 29):
Race baiting? How many demands for birth certificates were made of white candidates?

Who cares? Sure the fringe has some racists but to say everyone who opposes him is a racist is BS.



Who cares? The nuts in the Tea Party who wield such banners, for one. If the Tea Party no longer wants the racist and bigotry association, then they need to ban the offensive racial caricatures on banners and slogans at their meetings.

Yes, to say that everyone who opposes Obama is a racist, would indeed be BS. Good thing I never made that statement.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 31):
Every time opposition to Obama gains strength the race card is thrown out there.



Every time? Not at all. In this case, in the face of a demonstrably false but self-serving myth (namely the tea party is opposed to Obama because he represents big government and waste yada yada yada) I correctly pointed out how these concerns were absent when when a corporate stooge ran the show. Furthermore, since tea party rallies have had many banners with racial overtones, they invite the conclusion a big part of their conviction is racially motivated. If the tea party takes a position they have no place for the birthers, and they will eject those wearing racial slogans and offensive caricatures from their rallies, then I will gladly recognize this new position.
 
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:03 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 32):
It doesn't seem to me the truthers are predominately left wing,

Oh please.. You kidding?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 32):
At least it seems the right wing radio talk show hosts seem to love to keep the birther thing going.

Who?

Quoting avent (Reply 33):
The nuts in the Tea Party who wield such banners, for one

Most of the tea party doesn't wield racist banners. In fact go to a rally and tell me how many racist banners you see.

Quoting avent (Reply 33):
Yes, to say that everyone who opposes Obama is a racist, would indeed be BS. Good thing I never made that statement.

Yea but the left wing media has been doing a good enough job so don't worry.

Quoting avent (Reply 33):
since tea party rallies have had many banners with racial overtones, they invite the conclusion a big part of their conviction

More BS. your taking a few incidents and trying to make them the rule rather than the exception. I went to a rally and didn't see one. If you can't accept the fact that people are going to vote against him because of the state of the country and not his skin color fine but stop with the fear mongering.
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:23 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 31):
The left has the same bunch of whacks who hated Bush because he was a good ol boy from Texas and they do it to the point where they say he planned 9/11 and planted bombs in the WTC. Yet you ignore that. Give me a break.

I ignore it because few on either the right or left gave it serious credibility, and the theory it was done by our own government is from the fringe closer to the tea party, ultra libertarian, anti-government militia end of the spectrum.

Also, the 'we did it' conspiracy got no support from the talking heads from all ends of the spectrum, unlike the birther rubbish that was repeatedly dredged up by rightwingers. From this perspective, you are comparing apples and oranges. I would love to ignore the birthers, but the tea party and republicans keep bringing up the issue. That's not my problem - it's your's apparently.
 
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:25 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 34):
In fact go to a rally and tell me how many racist banners you see.

Shouldn't the right answer be zero?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 34):
Quoting Revelation (Reply 32):
At least it seems the right wing radio talk show hosts seem to love to keep the birther thing going.

Who?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birther says:

Quote:

The talk radio hosts Michael Savage, G. Gordon Liddy, Brian Sussman, Lars Larson, Bob Grant, Jim Quinn, Rose Tennent, Barbara Simpson, and Mark Davis have all promoted the eligibility claims on their radio shows. Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Lou Dobbs have also broached the issue several times on their shows.[74] Savage has asserted: "We're getting ready for the Communist takeover of America with a noncitizen at the helm."[71]

This matches my perceptions of where the birther movement gets its publicity from. The Wiki article points out that there are birthers from all parts of the political spectrum, but to me, the only ones that rise above the noise are the the right wing talk show hosts, mainly Limbaugh and Savage.
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:33 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 36):
Michael Savage, G. Gordon Liddy, Brian Sussman, Lars Larson, Bob Grant, Jim Quinn, Rose Tennent, Barbara Simpson, and Mark Davis

These people are idiots. Now I can begin to name Truthers like Rosie O'Donnell and Jesse Ventura but what does this prove?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 36):
Shouldn't the right answer be zero?

Your spinning this. Of course it should be but it's not reality. 100 years from now there will be people in this country that hate black people. It's a sad reality but reality none the same. Just as there will be blacks that hate whites. Much like the Black panther party they are a real small group. The NAACP and left wing media has launched a campaign to try to paint everyone that opposes Obama with that brush and it's nothing more than smoke and mirrors from a group of people that know they face a total defeat soon.
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:38 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 34):
Quoting avent (Reply 33):
The nuts in the Tea Party who wield such banners, for one

Most of the tea party doesn't wield racist banners. In fact go to a rally and tell me how many racist banners you see.

1. This is like Breitbart complaining at the rally about how unfair the media was for portraying the right for being bigotted, even though there was plenty of bigotted signage:


http://mediamatters.org/research/201009130053

2. Why should ANY racist banners be present? Why don't the speakers at the rally condemn the racism? If the racists are such an unwelcome minority, the rest of the audience would support such speakers.

[correction: UNwelcome minority]

[Edited 2010-09-15 10:52:58]
 
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:47 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 37):
Just as there will be blacks that hate whites. Much like the Black panther party they are a real small group.

Of course, Blacks didn't buy and sell Whites like chattel or pass laws declaring Whites to be 3/5 of a person. You are overlooking the fact that White supremacists have arguably infiltrated their way into the highest levels of Wall Street and Capitol Hill.

Trent Lott and Haley Barbour, no political lightweights by any stretch of the imagination, both addressed meetings of the Council of Conservative Citizens (the contemporary of the old White Citizens' Councils).

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 24):
Can we stop with the race baiting? Your telling me if John Kerry had won and was doing the same thing the tea party would never have spoken out?

Had Kerry won and done the same thing as Obama, the well-heeled right-wing special interest groups headed by the Cock (sp?) brothers and their ilk would not have funded and helped create a fake grassroots organization trumpeting unbelievably shrill and apocalyptic rhetoric. Obama is the far-right's worst nightmare, and that segment is clearly acting accordingly.
"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
 
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:48 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 37):
Much like the Black panther party they are a real small group. The NAACP and left wing media has launched a campaign to try to paint everyone that opposes Obama with that brush and it's nothing more than smoke and mirrors from a group of people that know they face a total defeat soon.

But the NAACP, while being a significant leftwing organization represents only one faction of the democrats, and it is only the rightwing who elevates them to a status above what they have in reality. Yes they are more sensitive to race issues, but, as I've repeatedly pointed out now, when the tea party claims it is opposed to one guy, but not the guy who created the mess, then one looks elsewhere for the real reasons, and the presence of racist and bigotted materials in their ranks, and when they obsess about the NAACP's overinflated threat, it certainly raises eyebrows.
 
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:51 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 34):
Quoting Revelation (Reply 32):
At least it seems the right wing radio talk show hosts seem to love to keep the birther thing going.

Who?

Geebus dude. Limbaugh - the biggest mouth of the right. Don't take the ridiculous position that right wing talk radio doesn't stoke that flame.
 
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:06 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 38):
2. Why should ANY racist banners be present? Why don't the speakers at the rally condemn the racism? If the racists are such an unwelcome minority, the rest of the audience would support such speakers.

Why doesn't the left condemn the Black Panthers? Your telling me the left doesn't have it's fringe? Media matters are a joke and they only exist to try to destroy FOX news. I can go to a left rally and take pics of the few of the inflammatory signs but it's just more smoke and mirrors. Andrew Breibert is an idiot but he was born out of the NAACP trying the same spin into making you think those signs at a tea party rally means we are all racists. It's a joke and voters are seeing though it. You need some new material.

Quoting santosdumont (Reply 39):
Of course, Blacks didn't buy and sell Whites like chattel or pass laws declaring Whites to be 3/5 of a person. You are overlooking the fact that White supremacists have arguably infiltrated their way into the highest levels of Wall Street and Capitol Hill

LOLOL. please. This is laughable.

Quoting santosdumont (Reply 39):
Obama is the far-right's worst nightmare, and that segment is clearly acting accordingly.

Just like the far left acted when Bush was in office, your point?

Quoting avent (Reply 40):
But the NAACP, while being a significant leftwing organization represents only one faction of the democrats, and it is only the rightwing who elevates them to a status above what they have in reality

So? The tea party is a right wing organization that represents only a faction of the Republicans and it's only the leftwing that elevates them to a status above what they have in reality.

Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
Geebus dude. Limbaugh - the biggest mouth of the right. Don't take the ridiculous position that right wing talk radio doesn't stoke that flame.

LOL, Who says? Just because Rush has a big following doesn't mean anything. This is more fear mongering being propagated by people like yourself as a way to try to explain why the polls are so bad for the Dems. Is Ed Schultz or Rachel Maddow the voice of the left? Joan Walsh? Of course not, these are idiot pundits that get face time and write dribble on the internet. Nothing more.
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:14 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 42):
Quoting santosdumont (Reply 39):
Of course, Blacks didn't buy and sell Whites like chattel or pass laws declaring Whites to be 3/5 of a person. You are overlooking the fact that White supremacists have arguably infiltrated their way into the highest levels of Wall Street and Capitol Hill

LOLOL. please. This is laughable.

Please feel free to refute my point with facts rather than with hollow posturing.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 42):
Quoting santosdumont (Reply 39):
Obama is the far-right's worst nightmare, and that segment is clearly acting accordingly.

Just like the far left acted when Bush was in office, your point?

My point is one your posts have clearly missed. Comparing the reactions of Bush's adversaries to Obama's is a case of apples and oranges. I don't recall the Cock brothers or their "far left" equivalent spending millions to finance some two-bit gathering of drugstore anarchists in San Francisco or Bezerklee.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 42):
Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
Geebus dude. Limbaugh - the biggest mouth of the right. Don't take the ridiculous position that right wing talk radio doesn't stoke that flame.

LOL, Who says? Just because Rush has a big following doesn't mean anything.

His paltry salary clearly reflects the insignificance you're trying to ascribe to him. Don't know if you were around in 1994, but he proclaimed himself the "Majority Maker" after the Republicans took Congress. The man is clearly aware that he doesn't mean a thing.
"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
 
NIKV69
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:18 pm

Quoting santosdumont (Reply 43):
Please feel free to refute my point with facts rather than with hollow posturing.

No need to, Wall street is not against Obama because he is black. If you really believe this well then it doesn't deserve a response.

Quoting santosdumont (Reply 43):
I don't recall the Cock brothers or their "far left" equivalent spending millions to finance some two-bit gathering of drugstore anarchists in San Francisco or Bezerklee.

Two words. George Soros

Quoting santosdumont (Reply 43):
His paltry salary clearly reflects the insignificance you're trying to ascribe to him. Don't know if you were around in 1994, but he proclaimed himself the "Majority Maker" after the Republicans took Congress. The man is clearly aware that he doesn't mean a thing

Oprah's salary is big, so is Hanks, Clooney etc. Does that make them anything more than what they are? No they are entertainers. Rush is a radio host who advertisers love because a lot of people that listen to him buy their products. He isn't about to start dictating what the GOP does trust me.
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:18 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 11):
And I consider it not a BAD thing.

Why? Because let's face it: the size of government is TOO big and the income tax system in the USA is too complex and ends up driving jobs, factories, corporate headquarters and likely way over US$10 TRILLION in American-owned liquid assets out of the USA as an income tax avoidance measure. This is economic insanity, in my humble opinion.

Hopefully, the influence of the Tea Party movement will finally force Congress to fix the income tax system and to seriously look at auditing every Federal, state and local government agency for bureaucratic overlap and agency bloat so we can reduce the size of government by at least 30%, which would free up more private money for other economic activities.

Couldn't agree more.   

Quoting D L X (Reply 12):
False. The thing driving outsourcing is that Indians, Mexicans, and Chinese are significantly cheaper than Americans. That's it, the sole reason.

If you think that cheap labor is the only thing driving money out of the U.S. you are sorely mistaken. We are OVER TAXED. Liberals want to raise taxes to solve our deficit, when in fact it's the OVER SPENDING that is killing us. I don't blame big corporations for moving assets/resources over seas. Why get stiffed with a bunch of taxes due to reckless government spending? Let's face it, if the U.S. government wasn't a bloated bureaucratic nightmare who has NO fiscal discipline, and who promised entitlements they know can never be paid for just to get votes, all of our taxes could be lowered. Instead, we have Americans who find it acceptable to pay over 50% of their paycheck to the gub'ment as long as that gub'ment takes care of them. Anyway, taxes aren't the only reason, but there are certainly many more factors than cheap labor.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
Wrong. The Tea Party happened almost as soon as Obama was elected. Before he had done anything. At that point, some people had the foregone conclusion that "Left=Bad." At that point, EVERYTHING Obama did, including ordering dijon mustard on a burger, was bad.

Wrong. The Tea Party started building under Bush, and when Bush pushed the first stimulus bill through, that was the final straw that really angered people. Obama spends like Bush on steroids and somehow, in some twisted way, liberals rationalize it. If it was a Conservative in office, who passed everything Obama has, had 9.5%+ unemployment under his watch, failed at responding to the Gulf Oil spill for how many days, etc etc etc, the liberals would be in the streets protesting as well. Americans got really pissed off when began this federal policy of rewarding failures of business when we bailed out the banks and and the auto industry. I love it when non-Tea Party folks who know literally NOTHING about Tea Partiers and what the Tea Party really represents go on hateful, ignorant tirades that's just the same recycled garbage coming out of MSNBC daily. Moving on...
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
avent
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:19 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 42):
Why doesn't the left condemn the Black Panthers? Your telling me the left doesn't have it's fringe? Media matters are a joke and they only exist to try to destroy FOX news. I can go to a left rally and take pics of the few of the inflammatory signs but it's just more smoke and mirrors. Andrew Breibert is an idiot but he was born out of the NAACP trying the same spin into making you think those signs at a tea party rally means we are all racists. It's a joke and voters are seeing though it. You need some new material.
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 42):
So? The tea party is a right wing organization that represents only a faction of the Republicans and it's only the leftwing that elevates them to a status above what they have in reality.

You're missing the point. I am not arguing there are no fringe nutcases on the Left; yes there are the Black Panthers or course, but they are not mainstream Left, and they and their extremist ideas do not get any significant support from mainstream public figures whether they be democrats or talking heads. However, the rightwing media and tea partiers keep stoking the racist and birther nonsense, and even rightwing politicians do this (as evidenced by Newt's colorful 'kenyan colonial' language) or indulge in coy refusals to come out and categorically condemn the birther rubbish.
 
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:27 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 46):
You're missing the point. I am not arguing there are no fringe nutcases on the Left; yes there are the Black Panthers or course, but they are not mainstream Left, and they and their extremist ideas do not get any significant support from mainstream public figures whether they be democrats or talking heads

Your missing the point. Just because some in the Tea Party are birthers and racists doesn't mean the whole party is. Once you stop with this MSNBC talking point we can get to a discussion. Saying the whole Tea Party is a bunch of birthers is like saying Rush is the leader of the GOP. It's complete hogwash. Just like saying the Tea Party is the mainstream right. This is something the left wants you to believe but it's not true.

Quoting avent (Reply 46):
However, the rightwing media and tea partiers keep stoking the racist and birther nonsense, and even rightwing politicians do this (as evidenced by Newt's colorful 'kenyan colonial' language) or indulge in coy refusals to come out and categorically condemn the birther rubbish

They are not. The left is who is stroking it. What Newt is doing is unfortunate and as for the birther nonsense it's not his job to refute what the crazies are saying. I don't see figures on the left condemning what the truthers are saying. It's a fringe and it works both ways. Difference is the GOP and right wing media doesn't try to paint the whole DNC as nuts. They argue the issues. Two of which are killing the DNC and instead of trying to right the ship they spend their time trying to make the GOP to be the next coming of the KKK and that is why they are going to lose in Nov. Not the Tea Party.
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D L X
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:28 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 42):
LOL, Who says? Just because Rush has a big following doesn't mean anything.

YOU just implied that no right wing talk radio hosts were stoking the birther flames. Did you forget that you implied that? I'm answering your question by pointing out to you an example of a right wing talk radio host that has been fanning the birther flames.

I'm beginning to think you think this is a game. That's the only way to make sense out of your cat-and-mouse arguments.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 45):

If you think that cheap labor is the only thing driving money out of the U.S. you are sorely mistaken.

no, actually, you are the one that is mistaken. The largest expense any American company that outsources has is labor. That is why they outsource to places with cheap labor. If it were taxes, they'd outsource to the Carribbean.

Besides that, you know those companies that outsource? Yeah, they STILL PAY TAXES!!

Facts are your friends.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 45):
The Tea Party started building under Bush

Source?

Quoting avent (Reply 46):
I am not arguing there are no fringe nutcases on the Left; yes there are the Black Panthers or course, but they are not mainstream Left, and they and their extremist ideas do not get any significant support from mainstream public figures whether they be democrats or talking heads.

Correct. Another example: point me to an example of one of these left extremists, like a Black Panther, that has won a primary. (I can point to a lot of Tea Partiers and even a birther or two that has...  
 
santosdumont
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RE: Tea Party Taking Over The Republican Party?

Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:34 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 44):
Quoting santosdumont (Reply 43):
Please feel free to refute my point with facts rather than with hollow posturing.

No need to, Wall street is not against Obama because he is black.

As recently as 1994, this kind of thing was going on at a major multi-national company:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/november96/texaco_11-12.html

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 44):
Quoting santosdumont (Reply 43):
I don't recall the Cock brothers or their "far left" equivalent spending millions to finance some two-bit gathering of drugstore anarchists in San Francisco or Bezerklee.

Two words. George Soros

What about him? Has he financed anything coming even close to the magnitude of the Tea Party? Some enterprising right-wing frat boy showed up at a Media Matters thing and tried to do his imitation of an O'Reilly-type ambush; he obviously didn't read the memo about not coking up before attempting the ambush...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAdzNTIZDcg&feature=player_embedded

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 44):
Quoting santosdumont (Reply 43):
His paltry salary clearly reflects the insignificance you're trying to ascribe to him. Don't know if you were around in 1994, but he proclaimed himself the "Majority Maker" after the Republicans took Congress. The man is clearly aware that he doesn't mean a thing

Oprah's salary is big, so is Hanks, Clooney etc. Does that make them anything more than what they are?

Let's come clean on what they are: multi-million dollar brands.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 44):
He isn't about to start dictating what the GOP does trust me.

I bet more people could identify a photo of him than of Michael Steele, though. And he undoubtedly holds sway over millions more people than Steele could ever dream of holding.
"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica

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