oly720man
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Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:37 pm

Interesting choice of route by Russian Railways. Is Nice popular with Russians?

http://www.ftnnews.com/content/view/10338/32/

The route will be as follows: Moscow -Vyazma - Smolensk - Orsha - Minsk - Brest - Terespol - Warsaw - Katowice -Zebrzydowice - Bohumin - Břeclav - Vienna - Linz - Innsbruck - Bolzano - Verona- Milan - Genoa - San Remo - Bordighera - Ventimiglia - Menton - Nice.

The travel time from Moscow to Nice will be52 hours 55 minutes, and from Nice to Moscow 49 hours 55 minutes.


Could be a nice way to spend 4 days and see a lot of scenery across Europe.
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Severnaya
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:25 pm

Quoting oly720man (Thread starter):
Is Nice popular with Russians?

Yes, however Barcelona and the east-coast of Spain is more popular. I doubt if this train will be popular amongst Russians. Tourists from Europe to Moscow yes, but not vice-versa. (Like on the Trans Siberian/Mongolian/Manchurian)

I don't understand this route very much, is it a whole train or just let's say 1, 2, 3 carriages, as the MOW-Warsaw part is driven daily already to Berlin.

What about the track difference between Russia & EU countries? Just changing the undercarriages at the Belarus-Polish border?
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:25 pm

Quoting oly720man (Thread starter):
Is Nice popular with Russians?

Oh very much so!!!!

Not only Nice... the whole French Riviera is popular with Russians, which you can extend to the Italian Riviera all the way up to Milano. They buy off property everywhere they can.

Back to the French Riviera... Saint Tropez, Cannes, Nice, Monte Carlo, Menton, are swarming with Russians. They all buy property and stay. They don't go back to Russia or if they do, they always come back.

In Monaco, all the brand new shiny Bentleys and other such luxury cars wear Russian license plates. They pay off whatever is needed to set up residence in Monaco. What amazes me most is the numbers of Russians with families who are able to do this. Then they get tax write-offs in trade for their investments.

You would not see any Russians setting up residence 5 years ago or less. It was unknown.

In the airports in Nice and Mandelieu private jets airport there are heaps of Russian jets, every day, all the time. You can see the latest Citations, Gulfstreams and other such wonderful mega-rich people's toys.

They are coming here en masse. If they have created this new train line -- which I was unaware of -- it is because there is a market and I think it will be a very successful one.
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:29 pm

Interesting choice of route by Russian Railways. Is Nice popular with Russians?

The new waves of Russians have money - LOADS of it. Setting up residences and summer destinations all over vacation destinations and upscale cities is the new thing. Gotta love the Italian and French Rivieras that are full of Russian-licensed cars.

Interesting patters have sprung up in the last few years.

Aeroflot777
 
oly720man
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:40 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 3):
Interesting patters have sprung up in the last few years.

Hmmm, like buying a villa on the Riviera for 500 million Euros

http://property.timesonline.co.uk/to...operty/overseas/article4499716.ece

So where's the money coming from, dare I ask?

Russian mafia taking over French Riviera

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ia-taking-over-French-Riviera.html
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Aesma
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:01 pm

MadameConcorde : but people who have private jets don't take the train ! So maybe it's for their domestics ?

Such a long route can only interest train fanatics, backpackers and other "poor" people. And even then, I'm wondering if it would really be cheaper than a flight ? 225€ for youth and 300€ normal ticket should cover a LCC flight easily.
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oly720man
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:05 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 5):
but people who have private jets don't take the train

But just think of how much illicit stuff you can get on a train...
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
Gemuser
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:32 am

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 1):
I doubt if this train will be popular amongst Russians. Tourists from Europe to Moscow yes, but not vice-versa. (Like on the Trans Siberian/Mongolian/Manchurian)

Having just completed a train trip Helsinki-St Petersberg-Moscow-Vladvostok, I have to doubt the statement that the Trans Siberian is not popular among Russians. The majority pax on our trains on the Trans Siberian were Russian speakers, I presume therefore citizens of the Russian Federation or former CIS states. True there were tourists from all over the world, but I'd be very surprised if thet made up more than 20% of pax.

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Aeroflot777
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:31 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 7):
The majority pax on our trains on the Trans Siberian were Russian speakers, I presume therefore citizens of the Russian Federation or former CIS states.

But do they travel the entire length? Hardly any actually do. The train is definitely used as a form of transport - don't forget the Trans-Siberian consists of many trains and schedules, people come and go. The tourists are the ones who mostly stay the entire length.
 
EDICHC
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:44 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 5):
MadameConcorde : but people who have private jets don't take the train ! So maybe it's for their domestics ?

Such a long route can only interest train fanatics, backpackers and other "poor" people.

How wrong can you be? There is a huge market for luxury rail tourism. These are just a few of the luxury rail tour operations that I can name. Venice Simplon Orient Express, The Royal Scotsman, The 'Ghan, The Blue Train, The Indian Pacific. None of these serve the backpacker market.
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CPH-R
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:38 am

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 1):
What about the track difference between Russia & EU countries? Just changing the undercarriages at the Belarus-Polish border?

Hm, is this what they do on the Sibirjak, which goes from Berlin to Novosibirsk? I saw that train at Berlin Hauptbahnhof while catching my own train home last year, and was wondering what it would be like taking a trip on that  
 
Severnaya
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:26 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 7):
Having just completed a train trip Helsinki-St Petersberg-Moscow-Vladvostok, I have to doubt the statement that the Trans Siberian is not popular among Russians. The majority pax on our trains on the Trans Siberian were Russian speakers, I presume therefore citizens of the Russian Federation or former CIS states. True there were tourists from all over the world, but I'd be very surprised if thet made up more than 20% of pax.

Well I guess you didn't really carefully watch them.

I just completely a month ago, Moscow-Ulaan Bator-Beijing. There were really about +- 40 Russians on any moment in the train, out of many hundreds. (Foreigner share was about 80,90%). The Russians that were in the train took trips like Kirov-Perm or Nizhneudinsk to Zima, where no other form of transport is widely/cheaply available. I honestly don't know any Russian (and mind you I know a lot) that take the train for transport from Moscow to VVO or PEK, FNJ. Everybody I told about my trip was staring with huge eyes to me and declaring me crazy.....

Ohh and about the price. This train ticket is not cheaper than any charter flight & hotel.
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signol
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:12 pm

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 1):
Yes, however Barcelona and the east-coast of Spain is more popular. I doubt if this train will be popular amongst Russians. Tourists from Europe to Moscow yes, but not vice-versa. (Like on the Trans Siberian/Mongolian/Manchurian)

From what I've read elsewhere, the Moscow - Vladivostok services are primarily used by Russians, but the Moscow - Beijing trains more by foreigners. Perhaps due to the international nature of the journey?

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 1):
What about the track difference between Russia & EU countries? Just changing the undercarriages at the Belarus-Polish border?

At Brest, passengers get off, the carriages are jacked up and the wheel bogies exchanged for the other gauge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogie_exchange

Anyway, it is probably just one, or a few, carriages tacked on to regular, domestic train services in the relevent country.

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Aeroflot777
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:28 pm

Quoting oly720man (Reply 4):
So where's the money coming from, dare I ask?

While corruption is indeed a huge factor in the influx of wealth amongst a lot of Russian billionaires, there are hundreds of thousands of wealthy Russians that profited off of successful business launches after the Union's collapse. There are so many of them, the mind can't even begin to comprehend. Most of these people are unknown and actually prefer to live their luxurious lives without being out in the open.

For instance, a few weeks ago, a Russian millionaire parked his luxurious yacht right next to Alcatraz in the SF Bay Area. Literally blocking the view of Alcatraz from many points in the city and Sausalito. He got special permission to keep his yacht anchored there for close to a week. Funny thing is... no one knew him - details that were readily available stated he was a self-made man that grew his business to extreme heights by mass producing and selling fertilizer.

These people have money - and most people don't know about them. They go out and splurge on villas and cars, followed by yachts and jets.

Quoting oly720man (Reply 4):

Hmmm, like buying a villa on the Riviera for 500 million Euros

Yep. Just like that. They have the money - they do it.

Quoting signol (Reply 12):
Moscow - Vladivostok services are primarily used by Russians

Hardly. That distance on a train is actually not that cheap. With recent competition in the air travel market - it's often cheaper to fly. Long distance trips on RR (Russian Railways) carry mostly foreigners.

Russian citizens, however, are sighted on these trains because they hop from city to city along the way - thus there is always a Russian presence. The individuals more often than not, though, filter out - so it's different people that you are seeing on the train at different times. Before anyone states this, there are obviously exceptions. I know someone who lives in Vladivostok but travels to Moscow every once in a while via train simply because she is afraid of flying.

The train ride is so incredibly long it's just not worth it for people that aren't on vacation.

Aeroflot777
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:33 pm

Quoting oly720man (Reply 4):
Hmmm, like buying a villa on the Riviera for 500 million Euros

http://property.timesonline.co.uk/to...6.ece

Leopolda is an amazing piece of property. I don't know what's best about it, the amazing panoramic views, the grounds or the mansion itself. Probably all three at the time. The Safra widow is a billionaire socialite with a residence in Monaco where the murdered husband had his own bank Banque Safra. I knew about the sale. Two were fighting the final bids, the Russian man and the Prince from Saudi Arabia. The Russian placed the highest bid and won.

Quoting oly720man (Reply 4):
So where's the money coming from, dare I ask?

Russian mafia taking over French Riviera

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl....html

How they suddenly came up with all this massive money and came here to take over is a mystery to me.
Nothing clean I suppose or they would still be where they were before. This is recent. There were none of them 5 years back. Heard about a couple of them who were put in prison several months and then they showed up again.

You see the children, barely 11 or 12, going to buy computer games and such and they go to the cashier with sparkling new 500 Euros bills in their hands while I stand in line with Euros coins in change to pay for my own goods.

What made these people so rich in such a short time is beyond my understanding. What do they sell to be so rich? Toxic waste? bombs? plutonium? when you see the women (babushkas) with the young chilren, they look so ordinary and uneducated... and they live in the best buildings in Monte Carlo.... Very mysterious...

 Wow!
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CPH-R
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:46 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
What made these people so rich in such a short time is beyond my understanding. What do they sell to be so rich?

Steel, oil, natural gas, or some of the other natural resources Russia holds.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:26 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 15):

Steel, oil, natural gas, or some of the other natural resources Russia holds.

  

Russia holds so many money-making industries that there is plenty of room for making moolah. Most of the time have to be smart about it. There's two categories of these rich Russian guys - ones that are trustworthy and honest and the corrupt retards that exploit others for their own sake. Both of these categories make bank and splurge on wealthy lifestyles.

Aeroflot777
 
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Aesma
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:03 pm

Quoting oly720man (Reply 6):
But just think of how much illicit stuff you can get on a train...

Hadn't thought about that. At some border there should still be an inspection.

Quoting ediCHC (Reply 9):
How wrong can you be? There is a huge market for luxury rail tourism. These are just a few of the luxury rail tour operations that I can name. Venice Simplon Orient Express, The Royal Scotsman, The 'Ghan, The Blue Train, The Indian Pacific. None of these serve the backpacker market.

Maybe I was not clear, I didn't include "train fanatics" into the poor people (even if you can be both). I know one, a retired French engineer, he talks a lot about his trip from coast to coast in the US, and wants to do the same from Brest where he lives to Beijing or Vladivostok.
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Gemuser
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:54 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 13):
Quoting signol (Reply 12):
Moscow - Vladivostok services are primarily used by Russians

Hardly. That distance on a train is actually not that cheap. With recent competition in the air travel market - it's often cheaper to fly. Long distance trips on RR (Russian Railways) carry mostly foreigners.

I think I see a misunderstanding here. Signol did not mean that Russians were the primary users going from Moscow to Vladivostok, he meant ALL user of such trains, including those going shorter distances. That was certainly my experience last month. About 80% of passengers were Russian speakers (as I said above), BUT I did not mean 80% of those going all the way Moscow-Vladivostok were Russians. In fact I doubt very many of any nationality go all the way on the same train, we didn't, we spent 2 days in the Irkutsk area. I would estimate that less than 10% of the pax who got on our carriage in Moscow went beyond Irkutsk, but the carriage was full all the time, including on departure from Irkutsk.

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Severnaya
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:40 am

Quoting signol (Reply 12):
At Brest, passengers get off, the carriages are jacked up and the wheel bogies exchanged for the other gauge.

Why do they need to get off? Are they not lifted up including the passengers like in Erlian, China? Just interesting, never have crossed the Belarus-Poland border, but at the Mongolia-China one we didn't need to get out. The whole wagon is just lifted up.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
How they suddenly came up with all this massive money and came here to take over is a mystery to me.

It's like with the Arabs, the Chinese, the Indians, the Brazilians. The world is in transformation.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
Nothing clean I suppose or they would still be where they were before.

What's not clean in doing business? Remember that Russia is the largest country in the world where in European Russia live as many people as in the combination: Germany & Poland. Let's say 1% of people is rich, that's about 1 million people and if 0.1% of people is excessive rich that still would be 100,000 people.
Russia has been a nation-asleep for foreigners during the 90s, but Russia's back on the world-stage and thus on the Rivieras to showoff and relax. Nothing surprising, there are a lot of opportunities to make money in Russia and the once people have made money they want to have a nice relaxing place out of all craziness of the cities.

Quoting oly720man (Reply 6):
But just think of how much illicit stuff you can get on a train...

Well, did you ever had the pleasure to pass customs on an international train in or out of Russia  
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:45 am

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 19):

My bad... I should have thought about the huge quantities of natural resources in Russia. Trillions of $$$$ there for sure!
About the place being the largest country in the world??? I would rather say China.
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Severnaya
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:53 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 20):
About the place being the largest country in the world??? I would rather say China.

I think you misunderstood me a small bit, i referred to the largest country in the world.

Russia #1: 17,098,242 square km
China: #3/4 (disputed): 9,596,961–9,640,011 square km, that's roughly half of Russia.

Largest population, yes that's China.

More on-topic: http://en.rian.ru/russia/20100908/160518671.html

Quote:
"We are not exactly happy with the speed, but we agreed to the proposals that were made to us by the European railway companies," Akulov said.

He said he hoped the journey time would be reduced as the service can potentially go as fast as 200 km/h.
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:56 pm

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 19):
Why do they need to get off? Are they not lifted up including the passengers like in Erlian, China? Just interesting, never have crossed the Belarus-Poland border, but at the Mongolia-China one we didn't need to get out. The whole wagon is just lifted up.

Everyone I know that travels by train never have to get off, the switch often happens at night - or did at least, while pax are sleeping. It's a pretty easy procedure from what I understand.

Aeroflot777
 
777way
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Quoting oly720man (Reply 4):
Russian mafia taking over French Riviera

Doing the same in Goa apparently.
 
tu204
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RE: Moscow To Nice In 4 Days By Train - New Service

Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:45 pm

I am suprised it would take so long. In that time I can easily get to Novosibirsk and beyond. As for Russian Railways, well, logic isn't their strong point. If it was, they would use common sense when they do their scheduling. Good luck getting onto any train at the last minute during the holidays that is not Moscow to St.Petersburg.
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