Ken777
Topic Author
Posts: 9046
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Obama: Woodward's 3rd War Book

Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:49 pm

Bob Woodward's new book, Obama's Wars, is out and the WaPo has an installment in today's paper"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2010092700236

This is the 3rd "war book" Woodward has written.

Book 1: "The Commanders" which covered the first Gulf War. Anyone reading that book would be impressed with Bush I and his team. It set Woodward as a writer who was working hard to present the facts in a clear manner.

Book 2: "The War Within", dealt with Bush II. It presented the same level of research and verification as the first book, was as clear in presenting the fats as the first and was the most insightful writing i've read on that era. The War Within, however, was brutal on the White House & Defense Department. If I had not read the first book I would be concerned about Woodward's effort in writing this one.

Book 3" "Obama's Wars". The excerpt is interesting enough for me to buy the 3 Woodward War book. Like the first two there is an informed focus on the White House and the Defense Department.

One excerpt:

Quote:
At critical points in the review, the ghosts of Vietnam hovered. Some participants openly worried that they were on the verge of replaying that history, allowing the military to dictate the force levels. While Obama sought to build an exit plan into the strategy, the military leadership stuck to its open-ended proposal, which the Office of Management and Budget estimated would cost $889 billion over a decade. Obama brought the OMB memo to one meeting and said the expense was "not in the national interest."

And there is our challenge for Afghanistan. If we leave we give a trillion dollars worth of natural resources to the terrorists within a relatively brief time period and will pay a huge price later. If we stay we need to understand that the terrorists are willing to think in terms of decades, which is not a cost we may be willing to accept as a country.
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6622
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Obama: Woodward's 3rd War Book

Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:27 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
If we stay we need to understand that the terrorists are willing to think in terms of decades, which is not a cost we may be willing to accept as a country.

But. this isn't Vietnam. We are fighting a foe that has shown a willingness to attack us and other Western interests (along with their own folks) anywhere. It is a cost we need to be willing to accept. Unless, of course you feel that the US can absorb another attack.

Anyone who thinks this war can be ended simply by saying "Ok, it's over...we're going home" is insane. Until we (and I use the global, civilized world "we" not the unilateral, US "we") are able to eliminate the influence of radical Islam from Islam, we will fight this war. It's up to all of us, including the Muslems.

I do look forward to reading it when The Wife gives me my Kindle for my birthday next month.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Obama: Woodward's 3rd War Book

Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:44 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 1):
Anyone who thinks this war can be ended simply by saying "Ok, it's over...we're going home" is insane.

Of course we can. And when the money runs out, that's exactly what we're going to do. Declare victory and leave.
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6622
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Obama: Woodward's 3rd War Book

Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:05 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 2):
Of course we can. And when the money runs out, that's exactly what we're going to do. Declare victory and leave.

And when they blast another hole in a city? Or kill a couple of hundred people in an attack here in the US or some other Western city? What happens if they get their hands on a nuke? What happens when some suicide bombers take out a mall food court on a busy Saturday afternoon.

If you really think this war is simply about Afghanistan, you need to pull your head out of your butt.

This war is going to get worse, continue going global and cost a lot more lives before it ends.

The Muslims need to get a handle on their extremist elements. Until that happens, we will remin in a war that started a long time ago. We just decided to join in during the last decade or so.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Obama: Woodward's 3rd War Book

Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:28 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
And when they blast another hole in a city? Or kill a couple of hundred people in an attack here in the US or some other Western city?

Have any Afghanis or Iraqis been implicated in *any* terrorist attack on Western soil?
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6622
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Obama: Woodward's 3rd War Book

Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:41 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 4):
Have any Afghanis or Iraqis been implicated in *any* terrorist attack on Western soil?

No, but Al Qhada (sp?) has and they have been traced back to the Taliban that was given haven, no they ran, Afghanistan, didn't they?

Iraq was a different situation, but rest assured, the same war on a different front.

Look, this thread is about the book, not about the war against terrorist elements in this world. But, I say, that if Obama, or anyone else, thinks we can timetable this, and just leave when we're ready, they are mistaken. Afghanistan is going to be a hard nut to crack and we'll need to have a substaintial presence long into the future.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
Ken777
Topic Author
Posts: 9046
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Obama: Woodward's 3rd War Book

Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:57 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 5):
Iraq was a different situation, but rest assured, the same war on a different front.

I've read both of Woodward's 2 other war books and Iraq was not, IMHO, necessary. Pity we had not put the effort into Afghanistan that we put into Iraq. We would be much further along there.

As for staying or leaving, do you believe that the US voters would accept a 100 year war? Do you believe the taxpayers would accept the need to pay higher taxes, not only for the war, but also for the long term care of veterans that is needed after any war?

I don't know the answers, but I have been seeing increased problems there. One of the many reasons why I have zero tolerance for those in power who made the decision to invade Iraq.
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Obama: Woodward's 3rd War Book

Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:11 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
And when they blast another hole in a city? Or kill a couple of hundred people in an attack here in the US or some other Western city? What happens if they get their hands on a nuke? What happens when some suicide bombers take out a mall food court on a busy Saturday afternoon.

Staying in Afghanistan is not going to prevent any of this. Great counterterrorism strategies will.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
UH60FtRucker
Posts: 3252
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:15 am

RE: Obama: Woodward's 3rd War Book

Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:18 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
Book 2: "The War Within"

Uh... it was actually four books, the chronicled the history of the administration from post-9/11, up to the initial success of the surge in Iraq.

Bush at War
Plan of Attack
State of Denial
The War Within
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
Ken777
Topic Author
Posts: 9046
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Obama: Woodward's 3rd War Book

Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:42 pm

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 7):
Staying in Afghanistan is not going to prevent any of this. Great counterterrorism strategies will.

I'm one of those who believe in "boots on the ground". It's the individuals in the various agencies and departments that protect us - not a President or his top people. I credit neither Obama nor Bush for the work of these lower level folk.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 8):
Uh... it was actually four books,

Thank you for that. I didn't remember seeing "Plan of Attack". That was my year of surgery and radiation for prostate cancer and reading took a back of the line position.  
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6622
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Obama: Woodward's 3rd War Book

Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:27 pm

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 7):
Staying in Afghanistan is not going to prevent any of this. Great counterterrorism strategies will.

Part of great counter-terrorism is doing what we can to keep the leadership off balance (and occasional lop one off) by maintaining an active presence where the terrorists live.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 8):
Uh... it was actually four books, the chronicled the history of the administration from post-9/11, up to the initial success of the surge in Iraq.

Bush at War
Plan of Attack
State of Denial
The War Within

I guess I'll need to read these books first. Off to the wish list.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 6):
As for staying or leaving, do you believe that the US voters would accept a 100 year war?

I really don't know. This 'microwave' society we live in has challenged us when it comes to thinking long-term. 100 years? I hope Islam has reformed itself by then, because that is the key.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aerlingus747, pu and 7 guests