futurepilot16
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Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:14 pm

Quote:
NEW BRUNSWICK, N.J. — A Rutgers University student whose sexual encounters were allegedly secretly taped by two other students and broadcast live on the Internet is believed to have committed suicide, according to authorities and media reports.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39419543/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

Absolutely despicable act by the two morons who did the secret videotaping.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
oly720man
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:34 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Absolutely despicable act by the two morons who did the secret videotaping.

Would it be despicable if the victim had just laughed it off instead of killing himself? Sure it was a petty tactless thing to do, but student residences and moral behaviour don't always go together.

I'm not up with the vagaries of US slang, but is a "dude" male, female or either?

Ravi wrote Sept. 19 on what is believed to his Twitter page, which has since been deleted: "Roommate asked for the room till midnight. I went into molly's room and turned on my webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay."
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BMI727
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:39 pm

Quoting oly720man (Reply 1):
I'm not up with the vagaries of US slang, but is a "dude" male, female or either?

In that context, almost certainly a male.
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cpd
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:29 pm

Quoting oly720man (Reply 1):

Well it is despicable and wrong regardless - and depending on age, carries varying degrees of penalties.

In some countries - doing this sort of thing leaves you on a register for the rest of your life and imposes restrictions on what you can do, where you can go. And if you break them, you can be back in trouble with the law again.
 
Mir
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:55 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
sexual encounters were allegedly secretly taped by two other students and broadcast live on the Internet

Anyone else think that sounds a bit like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8h6a15GGIE

Different ending, of course. Because real life isn't like the movies. Such a shame that a life had to end.  

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IMissPiedmont
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:17 pm

Quoting oly720man (Reply 1):
I saw him making out with a dude. Yay."

I'd say the writer of this was jealous.
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DocLightning
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:18 pm

Getting outed when you aren't ready is really stressful.

The poor friend had no idea it was going to come to this. He was an 18/19yo kid. This is just tragic, and it's a pity that this young man couldn't find a less self-destructive way to deal with coming to terms with his sexuality.
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IMissPiedmont
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:22 pm

People still don't kill themselves over being gay do they ? Nobody really cares. I think it was the publication of the act that did it.
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Tugger
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:29 pm

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 7):
People still don't kill themselves over being gay do they ? Nobody really cares. I think it was the publication of the act that did it.

People very much still do.

Someone else will have to pull the numbers but I believe that being homosexual (or being suspected of such) is still on of the biggest reasons for suicide amongst teens. Many consider it a mortal sin and find it hard to reconcile an unyielding doctrine with the realities of nature.

Tugg
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oly720man
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:35 pm

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 7):
Nobody really cares.

When you're a teenager anything that marks you out as different makes you a target.

The bullying of gay students has reached beyond tragic levels at Anoka High School, part of Minnesota's largest school district, where five students have recently committed suicide, and at least three are thought to have killed themselves because of sexual identity issues.

http://www.queersighted.co.uk/2010/0...to-gay-bullying-at-minnesota-scho/
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Maverick623
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:57 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):

Absolutely despicable act by the two morons who did the secret videotaping.

Now, don't get me wrong: it's sick what those people did. They, at the very least, deserved to get their asses kicked for that. That being said (and I'm certainly going to catch hell for this):

Quoting oly720man (Reply 9):
The bullying of gay students has reached beyond tragic levels at Anoka High School, part of Minnesota's largest school district, where five students have recently committed suicide, and at least three are thought to have killed themselves because of sexual identity issues.

I find it extremely sad that not a single bit of blame is being put on people for taking their own life. The "bullies" didn't pull the trigger, tie the knot, or shove the pills down their throat.
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futurepilot16
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:39 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 10):
Now, don't get me wrong: it's sick what those people did. They, at the very least, deserved to get their asses kicked for that. That being said (and I'm certainly going to catch hell for this):

Not from me. As centrist, most people I know who are lib hate torture capitol punishment, but after reading a story like this, I might turn my back if one of those kids got an eye gouge or a finger chopped off.

I might sound cruel, but I used to be a college freshman. It's tough enough coming into a whole new environment, then you gotta deal with assholes who think it's funny to tape you while having sex. Especially if they tape you doing it with a guy then posted on the internet, when no one else knows that you're gay and that's not the way you wanted them to find out. To me it's unforgivable.
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Tugger
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:00 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 10):
I find it extremely sad that not a single bit of blame is being put on people for taking their own life. The "bullies" didn't pull the trigger, tie the knot, or shove the pills down their throat.

When one is attacked and made to feel worthless, ashamed of themselves, and feel their life is valueless to the world, it becomes much easier to kill yourself. You feel alone and undefendable. Worthless.

The bullies are sometimes most certainly putting "bullets in the gun" or "handing the pills to the person" and making it possible even desirable to kill oneself. Sometimes not living sounds like an absolutely wonderful release from the drudgery of having to wake up tomorrow and experience more attacks. The utter alone-ness and isolation can be horrible.

I am not saying that many more people in the world do not live in worse situations but it is when it becomes your situation alone and not a shared experience with others that it becomes intolerable.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
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cpd
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:08 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 10):
I find it extremely sad that not a single bit of blame is being put on people for taking their own life

Yes, you are probably going to get hell for that - but I'm not going to be too harsh.

You can't blame them for doing it - because in so many cases, they just find that the weight/pressures on them are so much that they can't handle it, or, more to the point - don't know how to handle it. In this case - you could well see how the poor kid, and he is just nothing more than a kid, would be pushed over the edge. The poor kid is the innocent victim in all of this.

You can see the effects of bullying these days much more than in the old days. Now, the bullying extends into the home as well - and does not stop. Also the power of online / phones allows the bullying to be spread far and wide, very quickly. Hence what the person above has described.

[Edited 2010-09-29 18:11:08]
 
iflykpdx
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:55 am

Blaming the victims here is absolutely despicable; nearly as bad as those who made their lives hell in the first place. The real tragedy here is the complete depravity in the actions of those who bully and taunt, and the lack of action by anyone who sees these things going on and does nothing to stop them. Take it from me, growing up different (especially GLBT) in the world today is a scary thing, and being socially tortured is most definitely enough to send people over the edge and lead them to take their own lives. The bullies of the world deserve to be in the morgue, not their victims.
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Maverick623
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:55 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 13):
The poor kid is the innocent victim in all of this.

Of course, he is a victim. But I believe that he, and other that take their own life, are not completely innocent (absent a psychiatric disorder, of course).

Quoting iflykpdx (Reply 14):
Blaming the victims here is absolutely despicable

The only thing I blame the victim for is jumping off the bridge. He could have done anything else (short of killing his roommate, obviously) and I would cheer him on.

Quoting iflykpdx (Reply 14):
The real tragedy here is the complete depravity in the actions of those who bully and taunt, and the lack of action by anyone who sees these things going on and does nothing to stop them.

I absolutely agree. As someone who was bullied as a kid, it was rather disturbing to see that not even the people I considered friends would do anything to stop it. It's the reason I don't talk to most of them anymore.

However:

Quoting iflykpdx (Reply 14):
in the world today is a scary thing, and being socially tortured is most definitely enough to send people over the edge and lead them to take their own lives.

I cannot agree with this. People have been killing themselves over being bullied since the beginning of recorded history. That technology has expanded should make the world a less scary place, because there's so many resources that didn't exist before to educate and help those who need it.

It's really nothing new.

On a side note, this really hit a nerve with me:

Quote:
Steven Goldstein, chairman of the gay rights group Garden State Equality, said in a statement Wednesday that his group considers Clementi's death a hate crime.

I wasn't aware that suicide was a crime in New Jersey. Unless he's suggesting that Tyler criminally hated himself?
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cpd
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:58 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 15):
Of course, he is a victim. But I believe that he, and other that take their own life, are not completely innocent (absent a psychiatric disorder, of course).

You still cannot put any blame on him. The poor kid, I'd guess probably considered he had no other way to get away from all the pressures he must have faced at the time. It would have seemed overwhelming. Hell, his parents would have found out, the whole college or whatever it was - his whole life was probably turned upside down, he probably was ashamed I guess, frightened as well.

Now I'm guessing - because I wouldn't have a clue about that, but you don't have to be too bright to know how vicious kids of today can be. I have to wonder if the kids who released the video didn't realise how serious what they did actually is. This day and age, educational institutions (along with government) need to educate kids on how serious doing that kind of thing really is - especially if the kids are not legally adults.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 15):
I wasn't aware that suicide was a crime in New Jersey. Unless he's suggesting that Tyler criminally hated himself?

I think he's probably suggesting that the act of releasing the video is the crime.
 
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:13 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 16):
You still cannot put any blame on him.

Until someone says that he was thrown off the bridge, and his Facebook was hacked to fake a "suicide status"...

Quoting cpd (Reply 16):

I think he's probably suggesting that the act of releasing the video is the crime.

No. He specifically said the death was a hate crime.

Quoting cpd (Reply 16):
The poor kid, I'd guess probably considered he had no other way to get away from all the pressures he must have faced at the time. It would have seemed overwhelming. Hell, his parents would have found out, the whole college or whatever it was - his whole life was probably turned upside down, he probably was ashamed I guess, frightened as well.

Yes, obviously he was extremely devastated. Like I said, the bastards that streamed the video are due for an ass kicking. I'd even volunteer to host the live stream.

That being said, assuming that his entire family and friends he had completely disowned him for it, there's 300 million other people in the US, and a sizeable chunk wouldn't give two shits about it. In this day of ever-increasing social networks and the availability of information the world has never seen before, it says something when someone doesn't even consider starting a new life if they had to.

And obviously, he had at least one person who probably cared about him: the other guy.

Quoting cpd (Reply 16):
but you don't have to be too bright to know how vicious kids of today can be.

No more vicious than they ever were.

Quoting cpd (Reply 16):
I have to wonder if the kids who released the video didn't realise how serious what they did actually is.

Trust me: they knew.

Quoting cpd (Reply 16):
This day and age, educational institutions (along with government) need to educate kids on how serious doing that kind of thing really is - especially if the kids are not legally adults.

Bull. Believe me, nobody (bully or victim) pays attention to what some sappy over-emotional video is going to say. We need better parents, plain and simple.
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cpd
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:19 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 17):
Believe me, nobody (bully or victim) pays attention to what some sappy over-emotional video is going to say. We need better parents, plain and simple.

Some of them don't realise, in some cases (and certain age groups) exactly what kinds of laws they are breaking. That was my point.
 
Maverick623
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:49 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 18):
Some of them don't realise, in some cases (and certain age groups) exactly what kinds of laws they are breaking. That was my point.

Oh, you were referring to the actual recording/streaming of the video?

Then that, I can absolutely support.
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ltbewr
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:23 am

I live in northern New Jersey, not far from where the victim lived (Ridgewood a well off community), and died (apparently jumped off the George Washington Bridge, his car was found nearby). here is a link to an article from the local daily newspaper about this story with many details.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/0930...llegedly_taped_him_having_sex.html

The victim, Tyler Clementi, was a gifted musician (classical music, violn). His family is devastated. His body has yet to be found so no closure there. Apparently his roommate, Dharun Ravi, who had a lot of computer skill but no morals is the primary suspect, along with some apparent help from a woman, Molly W. Wei.

The two fools who did this will be thrown out of Rutgers and if convicted can get up to 5 years in jail, the rest of their lives ruined too as will have a felony conviction, their names on a sex offenders list with it's lifelong penalties. Their families are badly shamed and probably pissed that they did such a terrible criminal act. Would the two who did this obscene video recording like themselves being the taped during sex and put out on the web? I doubt it. There is also the other man in the victims sexual encounter that was recorded, his name yet to be known, but may be facing his own serious issues, I hope he is getting proper counseling

The best hope from this terrible situation is to change laws, on the state and federal level, that allows such material to be placed on the Internet, to apply devastating fines to ruin such businesses and put their operators in jail that accept such videos. I also hope that Rutgers and all other colleged in the coutnry use this situation to make it clear that such behavior is totally wrong and unacceptable. No one should ever be taped in violation of their privacy.
 
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:48 am

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 7):
People still don't kill themselves over being gay do they ?

No, and they're even allowed to get married in all 50 states now too!
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cpd
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:02 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 19):

Oh, you were referring to the actual recording/streaming of the video?

Yes, that's right. Just by them filming the video, especially if it is a minor involved, that leaves the kids filming the video in extremely big trouble for the rest of their lives, and they often don't understand the consequences of those actions. They think it's okay because they are all minors - when in fact it's absolutely not okay and it's highly illegal.
 
mt99
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:41 pm

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 7):
People still don't kill themselves over being gay do they ? Nobody really cares. I think it was the publication of the act that did it.

Dont be silly - Thats just so passe    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39438381/ns/us_news/

"On Tuesday, a 13-year-old California boy died nine days after classmates found him hanging from a tree. Authorities say other teens had taunted the boy, Seth Walsh of Tehachapi, for being gay."
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futurepilot16
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:55 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 20):
The two fools who did this will be thrown out of Rutgers and if convicted can get up to 5 years in jail, the rest of their lives ruined too as will have a felony conviction, their names on a sex offenders list with it's lifelong penalties. Their families are badly shamed and probably pissed that they did such a terrible criminal act. Would the two who did this obscene video recording like themselves being the taped during sex and put out on the web? I doubt it. There is also the other man in the victims sexual encounter that was recorded, his name yet to be known, but may be facing his own serious issues, I hope he is getting proper counseling

   That's what should happen to them. I say they deserve the full 5 years. There's also talk that it could be a hate crime on their part and since the video stream was sent across state lines, it could be prosecuted as a federal crime. They're screwed for life, and for a what? A prank they thought was harmless.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 17):
No. He specifically said the death was a hate crime.

The releasing of the video and the actions by the two people releasing said video is a hate crime.

Look, I know that the guy killed himself, but some people just get so traumatized by a situation sometimes that they act on a whim and kill themselves. We better be thankful that his whim wasn't to get an automatic rifle and gun down everyone in his dorm.
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Sepultallica
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:05 pm

http://gawker.com/5651659/is-this-we...tyler-clementis-last-call-for-help

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/7/2010/09/screen_shot_2010-09-29_at_9.19.03_pm.png

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/7/2010/09/screen_shot_2010-09-29_at_9.19.26_pm.png

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/7/2010/09/screen_shot_2010-09-29_at_9.19.49_pm.png

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/7/2010/09/screen_shot_2010-09-29_at_9.20.04_pm.png

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/7/2010/09/screen_shot_2010-09-29_at_9.20.29_pm.png

Judging by these posts of his, he doesn't seem to be too phased about the whole incident (in fact he was fully aware of it before hand), or by the fact he is gay.

This whole debacle does not compute.
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Tugger
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:17 pm

Quoting SepulTALLICA (Reply 25):
Judging by these posts of his, he doesn't seem to be too phased about the whole incident (in fact he was fully aware of it before hand), or by the fact he is gay.

This whole debacle does not compute.

That is truly odd, he most certainly does not seem to be psychologically impacted by this, just annoyed and rightfully pissed off about what is going on. Strange indeed.

Obviously there is a lot more to the story but it is hard to imagine that we don't have all the facts, after all we have seen all this stuff in the media.....

Tugg
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futurepilot16
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:21 pm

Quoting SepulTALLICA (Reply 25):
Judging by these posts of his, he doesn't seem to be too phased about the whole incident (in fact he was fully aware of it before hand), or by the fact he is gay.

Well things can seem pretty toned down over the internet. JUST BECAUSE HE ISN'T TYPING IN ALL CAPS, doesn't mean he wasn't upset. And who knows what could've happened in the weeks leading up to his suicide. Great post BTW   
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:14 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 20):
Apparently his roommate, Dharun Ravi, who had a lot of computer skill but no morals is the primary suspect, along with some apparent help from a woman, Molly W. Wei.

The way you have written this paragraph makes it sound like Ravi murdered him, he didn't, the guy suicided. I can't respect anyone who takes there own life, especially over something as stupid as this. One of my freinds suicided after crashing he dad's new car, though it would be easier if he was dead than take the heat, stupid, really dumb idea.
 
Flighty
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:58 pm

This is a super sad story but I'm not sure how to deal with the "perpetrators." This was a horribly mean spirited thing (although, not sure I would care if it happened to me.... just sayin'). But was it really a such a crime? What if nobody died? The fact was they set off this young man's defense mechanisms, and bullied him just at the wrong moment. It's tragic but kids are mean! Making an example of them would be punishing them for mean behavior. And that's where it becomes clear this was an emotional tragedy but not a crime.

The kids will probably have excellent lawyers which will negate the whole thing. If you are going to put a privileged college student in jail, you need the LAW. I recall several people in college were unsuccessfully prosecuted, because the kids' lawyers seriously outgunned the local prosecutor. Granted, if NYC / NJ wants to take a run at this, they can try.

This was a vulnerable young man and I think we all feel the family's pain.
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:04 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 29):
And that's where it becomes clear this was an emotional tragedy but not a crime.

It's not a crime that he committed suicide but it sure as heck is a crime that they illegally video taped him without his permission and distributed it over web. The fact that he committed suicide is just a sad side story. They won't be charged in his suicide, but they will be charged with:
-Two counts each, of invasion of privacy.
-The roomate was charged with an extra two counts of invasion of privacy after he tried again to videotape and distribute his roomate having sex.

Quote:
Under New Jersey’s invasion-of-privacy statutes, it is a fourth-degree crime to collect or view images depicting nudity or sexual contact involving another individual without that person’s consent, and it is a third-degree crime to transmit or distribute such images. The penalty for conviction of a third-degree offense can include a prison term of up to five years.

Additionally, it has been reported that the prosecutor in the case might also go with additional charges of a hate crime. This is huge because if they are both charged with a hate crime, they will receive additional time. Not only that, but there is also a possibility that the hate crime might be investigates a federal crime because the video feed was distributed across state borders. A federal hate crime is by no means a slap on the wrist.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 29):

The kids will probably have excellent lawyers which will negate the whole thing. If you are going to put a privileged college student in jail, you need the LAW.

And they do have the law. There is no doubt in my mind that the judge in this case could care less whether these kids are in college or not. Despite how you spin it, what they did was a crime. There is more than enough evidence to support this, and they also confessed to what they did. There's no way they can get off easy.
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DocLightning
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:24 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 29):
This is a super sad story but I'm not sure how to deal with the "perpetrators."

I've been goin gback and forth over this in my head.

1) What they did was tasteless, unethical, and very poor judgement. However, it was not murder and it seems like it was a poorly-thought-out teenage prank. They secretly taped a freshman in college getting laid. Big deal. They had no idea it was going to come to this. One life has been destroyed. Must we destroy three?

2) What they did was tasteless, unethical, and very poor judgement. The internet is a relatively new technology that grants the ability to commit serious breaches of privacy and defamation of character. Now someone is dead from the shame. Shouldn't we harshly punish these two to set a clear and loud example to the world that this sort of behavior is not acceptable?

And I just can't figure out where I stand.

But one thing is for sure. Stephen Goldstein can shut his drama-queen trap. There's no evidence that this was motivated by anti-gay sentiment and there's certainly no evidence that the intent was to cause physical harm to the victim. A hate crime it most certainly is NOT.
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Maverick623
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:26 pm

Quoting cpd (Reply 22):
They think it's okay because they are all minors

No they weren't. His roommate is 18.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 24):

The releasing of the video and the actions by the two people releasing said video is a hate crime.

I'm not necessarily arguing that (although I have certain reservations with "hate" crimes), but the fact was that the guy called the death itself a hate crime.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 29):
But was it really a such a crime?

Yes, it was. It's a 4th degree felony in NJ to distribute images of someone in a sexual situation without their consent.

Quoting SepulTALLICA (Reply 25):
Judging by these posts of his, he doesn't seem to be too phased about the whole incident (in fact he was fully aware of it before hand)

I'm going to start backing off on this kid. It sounds like he had some sort of mental illness (probably some sort of bipolar).

But regardless, he wasn't pushed off the bridge. In that respect, I hold his roommate and his lady friend mostly guiltless. They still need their ass-whooping, though.
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futurepilot16
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:51 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 32):
I'm not necessarily arguing that (although I have certain reservations with "hate" crimes), but the fact was that the guy called the death itself a hate crime.

Well that's wrong. I know people are angry that he killed himself, but you just have to look at it as an unfortunate circumstance.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 31):
One life has been destroyed. Must we destroy three?

Yes we should. IMHO, These kids should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. They should do whatever time they get in prison. They should and will be kicked out of the university, and they should be labeled as sex offenders for the rest of their lives. If a 14 year old can be labeled a sex offender for putting a nude pic of herself up on Myspace, then it shouldn't be a problem for these immature morons to get the same label.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 31):
But one thing is for sure. Stephen Goldstein can shut his drama-queen trap. There's no evidence that this was motivated by anti-gay sentiment and there's certainly no evidence that the intent was to cause physical harm to the victim. A hate crime it most certainly is NOT.

Well, the roomate who did the video taping wrote this on his twitter page:

Quote:
"Roommate asked for the room till midnight. I went into molly's room and turned on my webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay."

To me, this sounds like an immature kid who hates the fact that his roommate is gay, so he sees the need to embarrass him. I think the videotaping was done in an attempt to expose his roommate as a gay because he wanted to embarrass him. It's cyber bullying due to the fact that he's gay. Simple.
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IMissPiedmont
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:04 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 31):
There's no evidence that this was motivated by anti-gay sentiment

Exactly. The person who posted the video was certainly gay himself and the boy didn't kill himself because he was gay. He killed himself because that is sadly was young people think is a solution to whatever problem they have.
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ozglobal
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:17 pm

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 7):
People still don't kill themselves over being gay do they ? Nobody really cares. I think it was the publication of the act that did it.

Yes, about 60% of male youth suicides in Western nations are still linked to this reason. When I used to live in Melbourne, RURAL Victoria (the state Melbourne is part of) registered the highest male youth suicide rate in the world!! Homophobia, not just in others but inculcated in the subject himself was at route.
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LH459
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:24 pm

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 34):
The person who posted the video was certainly gay himself

Given the facts which have emerged so far, I'm very curious how you've drawn this conclusion?
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Flighty
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:49 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 32):
Yes, it was. It's a 4th degree felony in NJ to distribute images of someone in a sexual situation without their consent.

Cool, didn't know that, hope they prosecute them. NJ probably has such a law to nab blackmailers or the like.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:50 pm

I'm not so sure the roommate was mad cause he was gay. I got mad at my ex-roommate when he'd have females in our room, and although I'd never be stupid enough to film them, I did bust the door open when I would come in rather than give them time to correct themselves  
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cpd
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:58 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 33):
Yes we should. IMHO, These kids should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. They should do whatever time they get in prison. They should and will be kicked out of the university, and they should be labeled as sex offenders for the rest of their lives.

Exactly right. That's the only way they will learn that this kind of thing is not okay. It's not just some harmless prank or teasing.
 
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:59 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 33):

To me, this sounds like an immature kid who hates the fact that his roommate is gay, so he sees the need to embarrass him.

I don't get that at all. I get that he's happy that his roommate is getting laid and he's amused to find out that his roommate is gay.

Teenagers are always toying around with sexuality and sexual orientation. I didn't read any homophobia off the tweets.

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 34):
. The person who posted the video was certainly gay himself and the boy didn't kill himself because he was gay.

What?

Here we have one poster saying that he's a homophobe and one poster saying he's gay.

Given the demographic at Rutgers and the age of the students involved, statistically it is most likely that he is heterosexual and accepting of homosexuality. Things have changed a among teens in the last decade. The vast majority of people under 20 support gay rights and gay marriage. Even in Idaho and West Virginia, over half of 18-29yo's support gay marriage. In NJ, it's about 68%. (http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~cook/movabletype/archives/2009/06/future_trends_f_1.html)

So I am very skeptical that he was gay (97% chance he's not) or homophobic (>68% chance he's not). I think he's just stupid.
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ScarletHarlot
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:11 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 40):
I don't get that at all. I get that he's happy that his roommate is getting laid and he's amused to find out that his roommate is gay.

Teenagers are always toying around with sexuality and sexual orientation. I didn't read any homophobia off the tweets.

It's been determined with high probability that Tyler Clementi was on a gay-oriented message board and posted about the incident and the tweets.

I feel like it was “look at what a fag my roommate is” –other people have commented on his profile with things like “how did you manage to go back in there?” “are you ok?”

These are Tyler Clementi's own words.

http://blogs.forbes.com/kashmirhill/...forum-for-help-before-his-suicide/
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ltbewr
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:14 am

Apparently his body has been located in the Hudson River, north of the GWB and identified. At least this issue has been resolved.

Those that did this illegal taping and distribution of the tape didn't ever think about the possibility of him committing suicide. More likely the roommate was trying to find a way to get rid of Mr. Clementi by 'outing' him, hoping he could get another roomate. Still, no matter your intentions, if you do a crime and in turn cause injury or death as a result of it (like shoot a gun during a robbery or hit someone with your car in a police chase), you can be charged. Still he believed Clementi was gay, and probably unconfortable about it, like far too many in our society, especially in the context of where you are sharing the same sleeping quarters with.

As to possible State or Federal 'hate crime' laws being used, that may be a reach here. Better might be to use the Federal Civil Rights laws as he deprived Mr. Clementi his Constitutional right of privacy. That is a idea some in the Internet and general privacy right community suggest.

I would also wonder if Mr. Clementi had longer term and family issues as to coming out as gay, if he was still trying to figure it out, afraid to come out due to family and peer pressure and so on. With some exceptions, generally those that take their life have had to deal with their issues for a long time. Perhaps he suffered from undiagnosed or repressed depression, often a problem for those who are GLTB, especially before they publicly acknowledge it. It is possible that over time, Clementi had a very confused and scared sense of himself, and this event was the tipping point that pushed him to taking his life. It's too bad he didn't seek privacy protected consuling from the school or GLTB organiation. Maybe that could have saved him.
 
Springbok747
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:47 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 33):
Yes we should. IMHO, These kids should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. They should do whatever time they get in prison. They should and will be kicked out of the university, and they should be labeled as sex offenders for the rest of their lives.

Why? All they did was tape the guy having sex (which is illegal), and the guy committed suicide. They didn't push him off that bridge. He chose to jump on his own, no one was telling him to. He chose not to receive help through family, friends, or suicide prevention. While they may have upset him, they are not to blame for his stupid decision. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Everyone would have moved on and forgotten about the incident in the near future...crap like this happens in this day and age..especially in university dorms. That is no reason to commit suicide.
This just shows you he was ashamed of being gay. Despite the taping being a crime, obviously, I'm sure the two students didn't think it would lead to suicide.

And what about the guy he was having sex with? Did he also commit suicide because he is gay?  
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iairallie
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:34 am

Quoting oly720man (Reply 1):
Would it be despicable if the victim had just laughed it off instead of killing himself?

Yes it would be just as despicable. It is completely disgusting (and illegal) to tape someone when they are doing something private.

Quoting oly720man (Reply 1):
"dude" male

In this case yes. Generally it refers to a guy but it can be used to refer to "anyperson" non-gender specific. It all depends on context.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
The poor friend had no idea it was going to come to this

Friend that is a stretch they weren't friends just assigned roomates. Yeah but he should have had an inkling that his behaviour was despicable and hurtful.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
This is just tragic, and it's a pity that this young man couldn't find a less self-destructive way to deal with coming to terms with his sexuality.

I agree. Whatever the reasons for his suicide it is sad he couldn't have delt with the problems more constructively.

Quoting cpd (Reply 18):
Some of them don't realise, in some cases (and certain age groups) exactly what kinds of laws they are breaking.

Wah wah wah. You don't have to know the law to do unto others and have a little empathy for your fellow man. It takes an unusually cruel defective person to act with so little regard for another persons privacy.

Quoting SepulTALLICA (Reply 25):
Judging by these posts of his, he doesn't seem to be too phased about the whole incident (in fact he was fully aware of it before hand), or by the fact he is gay.

He seemed just fine with being gay but he did seem really upset about the incident.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 29):
But was it really a such a crime?

Yes it was it is really really disgusting to violate someones privacy like this. The internet is forever It doesn't take a genius to know that once you put that private images out there you can't ever get rid of them and they have lasting consequences for the victim. If the guy hadn't died for the rest of his life this video could haunt him and impact his ability to earn a living,

Quoting Flighty (Reply 29):
What if nobody died?

Still just as disgusting and just as criminal.
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futurepilot16
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:36 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 43):
Why? All they did was tape the guy having sex (which is illegal), and the guy committed suicide. They didn't push him off that bridge. He chose to jump on his own, no one was telling him to. He chose not to receive help through family, friends, or suicide prevention. While they may have upset him, they are not to blame for his stupid decision. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Everyone would have moved on and forgotten about the incident in the near future...crap like this happens in this day and age..especially in university dorms. That is no reason to commit suicide.

And thus being, they will get processed to the fullest extent of the law. Maybe you didn't understand my post, but I specifically said that they should and will be charged ONLY in regards to illegally videotaping and distributing a video without someone's permission. This is what they're being charged with right now. There is a chance they will be charged on a federal level for a hate crime. Again, I never mentioned anything about them being held responsible for the student's death.

I'm also surprised you're taking such a laid back opinion of a very serious matter. In your opinion, you don't think this is a serious situation? You don't think it's serious that people think it's ok to do things like this? You might see it as a harmless prank, but as I said before, if Tyler Clementi had picked up a pair of handguns and shot his way through his dorm building, then committed suicide, then you'd be angry at the people who provoked him and so would the families of the students he shot. But I guess it's different since he thoughtfully took his own life.  
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
Springbok747
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:41 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 45):
but I specifically said that they should and will be charged ONLY in regards to illegally videotaping and distributing a video without someone's permission

Ah ok. Sorry..did not read that before.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 45):
I'm also surprised you're taking such a laid back opinion of a very serious matter. In your opinion, you don't think this is a serious situation?

I never said it wasn't a serious situation. Yes. His privacy was compromised by these two idiots taping him. But guess what..he should have known that sorta thing can and does happen in university dorms. He should not have been engaging in these activities in the first place in such a setting...especially if he had not come "out of the closet". Do you really think he would have committed suicide if he was caught having sex with a girl?
And how about the guy he was with - who's helping him cope? How come he didnt commit suicide or go nuts? After all..his privacy was compromised too..

This kid was weak and took the easy way out. Natural selection at work..
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cpd
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:57 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 46):
This kid was weak and took the easy way out. Natural selection at work..

Don't you think that's very heartless and inappropriate? Maybe it was a tongue in cheek comment, or one of those "playing the devils advocate" types of things that some people do on website forums to stir up controversy... But anyhow, I've moderated large website forums for so long that I've seen just about everything - so nothing really surprises me.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 46):
Do you really think he would have committed suicide if he was caught having sex with a girl?

Well some people would probably be thrilled about it and almost use it as bragging rights, but not everyone would be so thrilled. That's something that is very private and I doubt I'd like that getting out to the rest of the world.

The people doing the filming will get what they deserve under the law.
 
johnboy
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:53 am

Wow.

Tough crowd in here today.
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Student Secretly Taped Having Sex Kills Self

Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:37 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 46):
Do you really think he would have committed suicide if he was caught having sex with a girl?

Of course. You have no way of determining that he killed himself because he was ashamed of being gay

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 46):

This kid was weak and took the easy way out. Natural selection at work..

That makes no sense. You have no idea what this kid may have gone through in his life. You've seen his pics, who knows the amount of bullying he could have gone through in high school? You just never know. People suicide because they are stressed and think that there is no other way out. Perfectly strong minded human beings have taken their own lives so this has nothing to do with being weak.
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