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DocLightning
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CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:32 am

Gov. Schwartzenegger signed SB 1449 which takes immediate effect. As of today, possession of one ounce of marijuana in California is a mere infraction, the same as a parking or speeding ticket.

Quote:
"In this time of drastic budget cuts, prosecutors, defense attorneys, law enforcement and the courts cannot afford to expend limited resources prosecuting a crime that carries the same punishment as a traffic ticket," wrote Schwarzenegger, who opposes Proposition 19, the marijuana initiative.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BAR61FN4GC.DTL&tsp=1#ixzz119lGK5tz

I am SO glad to see some sanity on this issue. It is considered insanity when someone repeats the same action over and over and expects a different outcome.

Throughout history, precisely zero government attempts to ban a recreational substance have successfully eliminated use of said substance and 100% of such bans have led to the formation of a black market, typically with violent undercurrents. Through history, examples of banned substances range from opium (once legally available in the US and UK) to chocolate.

I am of the opinion that the only way to end the drug wars is complete legalization of all recreational substances. I am well aware of the risks and drawbacks, but spending billions on a fruitless drug war and shedding oceans of blood in the process is far worse. I think that this bill is a big step in the right direction.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Continental
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:26 am

Fantastic news! I am not a pot smoker, but I fully support the legalization of marijuana.

Amsterdam seems to have gotten it right a long time ago...
 
AKviator
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:48 am

I see few problems with legalizing marijuana. Its affects are no worse than alcohol, and I believe there are little to no health consequences (correct me if i'm wrong Doc).

Should it be legalized, I can see it becoming a thriving industry creating jobs by the thousands and providing a little boost for the economy.
 
Mir
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:06 am

Quoting AKviator (Reply 2):
I believe there are little to no health consequences

Smoking is still bad for you, no matter what's being smoked. So there are consequences to it. But cigarettes are legal, so....

-Mir
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:09 am

Awesome news. Can't really take advantage of it... but still good news, nonetheless.

I wonder if we took a poll of anetters, how many of us have smoked weed? I'd be willing to bet it's over 75%.
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ltbewr
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:13 am

This is NOT legalization, but rather lowering the threshold of what is considered criminal for sound economic reasoning. Still, getting a ticket of this nature, to accept guilt and pay it, could be still used against you in certain forms of employment (law enforcement for example). At the least, it will mean the cops concentrating on more critical criminal activity.
 
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Francoflier
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:15 am

Quoting AKviator (Reply 2):
Should it be legalized, I can see it becoming a thriving industry creating jobs by the thousands and providing a little boost for the economy.

Not to mention the extra revenues generated by taxation.
Taxes on Marijuana could be very heavy, and it would still be cheaper to provide than nowadays. That extra revenue could be used to setup and enforce strict quality control, legal smoking age limit, ad campaigns and education on the dangers of consuming it, etc... Just like tobacco.
And CA could do with a little more tax revenue these days, I believe.
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seb146
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:16 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 4):
I wonder if we took a poll of anetters, how many of us have smoked weed? I'd be willing to bet it's over 75%.

I am sure a lot of us have tried it. It has been accepted on the West Coast for a long time. I have not smoked for a long time. I hope SB 1449 shows that we need to pass Prop 19 as well.
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YYZflyer
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:27 am

People are finally coming to their senses, which is great news!  
Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 4):
Can't really take advantage of it.

If it was legal/decriminalized in the entire country wouldn't you be able to? Or would the military still not allow it?

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 4):
I'd be willing to bet it's over 75%.

I'd guess it's probably close to 90%, including people who have only tried it once. I think fewer would admit it over the internet though, as I've seen a few posts on here saying why would they admit it.
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NIKV69
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:43 am

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
I am of the opinion that the only way to end the drug wars is complete legalization of all recreational substances

I am in full agreement with Doc on this.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:45 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 9):

I am in full agreement with Doc on this.
*pinwheels backward, as if struck in the chest*

You are in full WHAT with me???   
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pwm2txlhopper
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:25 am

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Gov. Schwartzenegger signed SB 1449 which takes immediate effect. As of today, possession of one ounce of marijuana in California is a mere infraction, the same as a parking or speeding ticket.

I thought it was already essentially decriminallized in California? The last time I was out there, last year in Palm Springs, I asked a bouncer if I had to worry about getting arrested if I openly smoked on the street out front. He said no. As long as I had under an ounce, or some simliar amount, it was simply a summons and a fine. And personally, he said he didn't care and wouldn't call the cops or kick me out. Therefore, I just smoked openly that week when I was out at night. I'd just go out on the sidewalk. I tried to make sure there weren't strangers standing right next to me or walking by, but I wasn't all that concerened about hiding it, or being paranoid, either.

Then on the way back to the east coast, at LAX, I went and enjoyed a huge spliff on top of the parking garage before getting on the plane. I'm sure there must have been security cameras around? But I didn't have any problems. Figured if I got caught, within six hours, I'd be on the other side of the country, anyway? I'd just pay the fine by mail.

I live in Maine. And it's essentially been decriminalized here as well for about 15 years. You've always been able to posses up to 1.25 Oz. without possibility of arrest or being charged with a crime. They simply summons you, and you pay a fine. (Use to be $200, but was moved up to $350 last year) and you're charged with a civil infraction, and there's no criminal charge on your record. Then, last year they bumped up the amount you can possess without fear of arrest or criminal charges to a whooping 2.25 Oz! One of the only things I like about living in the hell that is Maine!

I just got pulled over for speeding last week, and the cop saw a couple grams in my car. He simply took it, and didn't even give me the ticket!

We've also got medical marijuana, but unlike Cali, you actually have to have a terminal illness to get it here. There also has been no legal way to obtain it, but we voted in California style dispensaries last year, and they are due to open next year.

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
hroughout history, precisely zero government attempts to ban a recreational substance have successfully eliminated use of said substance and 100% of such bans have led to the formation of a black market, typically with violent undercurrents. Through history, examples of banned substances range from opium (once legally available in the US and UK) to chocolate.

It surprises some people, but I'm pretty anti-drug. There's nothing good that comes from them. I've never done anything other than weed, and I smoked it regularly for ten years without ever thinking about trying harder stuff. Then I stopped being a regular user with no withdrawal or other effects. Kind of blows the gateway drug theory out of the water? I just don't consider marijuana a drug. No more than caffeine, nicotine, or Tylenol. As much as I'm for legalization of marijuana, I can't support general legalization of all illicit drugs and narcotics. Just don't see any good in legalizing stuff that actually destroys lives and kills people.

Quoting Continental (Reply 1):
Amsterdam seems to have gotten it right a long time ago...

I was living in Berlin, Germany for two years, and I've been regularly going over there for ten. While not technically legal there, as long as you have under 10 grams, it's a non issue. In the majority of bars and clubs you can just roll a joint and smoke. It's no problem. The worst that happens, and it's rare, is they'll ask you to go outside with it. It's not like this is South Germany, but North Germany it's a non issue. Heck, you can pretty much walk past the cops with a joint and they usually won't do anything.



Quoting AKviator (Reply 2):
I see few problems with legalizing marijuana. Its affects are no worse than alcohol, and I believe there are little to no health consequences (correct me if i'm wrong Doc).

It's absurd to think that smoking it doesn't cause any health problems akin to smoking tobacco. Just the shear amount of tar going into your lungs is kind of a no brainer that it's not healthy. However, you don't have to smoke. You can use vaporizers, or consume orally when it's cooked into fat based solubles (butter) and then used to make treats,




Quoting YYZflyer (Reply 8):

If it was legal/decriminalized in the entire country wouldn't you be able to? Or would the military still not allow it?

I doubt it. You give up your rights and civilian laws when you enter the military. They own you. Not the other way around. However, I've always wondered in places where it's legal, like the Netherlands, are commercial pilots prohibited from consuming cannabis then? Like, can pilots of KLM smoke weed when their off shift, just like pilots can drink alcohol when they're not working?

I'm still undecided about using if you fly. I haven't flown in ten years, but would be hesitant to fly had I smoked weed in the last several weeks. Can't say it permanently harms a user, but I can attest that it can slow you down and make you kind of sluggish, and forgetful if you've used it to any extent recently. At least if you're a regular user. The symptoms kind of clear up, though, after you've stopped for a week or two.




[Edited 2010-10-01 22:51:52]
 
NIKV69
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:54 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
You are in full WHAT with me???

When it comes to drugs, gambling and hookers people call me a libertarian!
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:18 am

I had a stimulating discussion tonight at a party over whether this law will make marijuana citations increase or decrease. I came out of it thinking that cops are going to step up their enforcement a LOT because this is going to be a huge cash cow. You pay $100 and forget about it. Most pot smokers can come up with that kind of money.

But, whatever. You pay a fine. It vanishes.
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pwm2txlhopper
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:27 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
But, whatever. You pay a fine. It vanishes.


Better yet, legalize and tax the hell out of it, and California will have taken a large step towards fixing some of it's financial problems and budget shortfalls. I think the state would bring in far more money if every cannabis consumer paid many times more than $100 per year on their product in taxes, than the small minority of users who actually get caught and fined a meager $100?

[Edited 2010-10-02 02:30:10]
 
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Aesma
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:56 am

I'm for decriminalization and legalization in France too (you could say it's already decriminalized because nobody is ever charged for just possessing or smoking a small amount, even if they should be), but I have one concern, which is even worse in the US with the car culture : people driving under the influence. Selling alcohol while getting across the message that driving intoxicated is very bad has not yet really worked, so I don't see how selling drugs more freely could help in that matter.
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Superfly
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:30 pm

Good news!
Where there any celebrations on the lawn of the State Capitol building?
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NIKV69
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:28 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
I had a stimulating discussion tonight at a party over whether this law will make marijuana citations increase or decrease. I came out of it thinking that cops are going to step up their enforcement a LOT because this is going to be a huge cash cow. You pay $100 and forget about it. Most pot smokers can come up with that kind of money

Good point Doc. IMO if you legalized it completely you may get a slight rise in use at first but over long term you won't see a change. If people want it they are going to do it.
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seb146
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:34 pm

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 11):
I thought it was already essentially decriminallized in California?

No, it wasn't. But, no one cares as long as you smoke outside. My partner buys it from a legal dispensary. When we go somewhere, he smokes outside. No one cares. He has even smoked near police when we are walking down the street or driving through town. What happens? Nada.

Oregon is about the same. Idaho, on the other hand, does not tolerate marijuana at all.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 15):
but I have one concern, which is even worse in the US with the car culture : people driving under the influence.

How many accidents are there where the driver was only under the influence of pot? The ones I have heard of, the driver was also under the influence of alcohol or cocaine or meth.

One argument that has been going around about Prop 19 is "Everyone will start smoking pot." Counter argument: alcohol is legal, but not everyone drinks. Some of us choose not to.
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PPVRA
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:50 pm

Goon for California. It's only a small step, but one nonetheless.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Pyrex
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:10 pm

Quoting Continental (Reply 1):
Amsterdam seems to have gotten it right a long time ago...

Yes. Can't wait to see the whole beautiful state of California stink up of weed as the beautiful city of Amsterdam does. Of course the irony of treehuggers driving around in their Prius and complaining about the effects of mankind on the environment while smoking a smelly joint without regards for anyone else around them will be lost in most.

As if the economy of the state of California needed anything else to make its citizens even more lethargic.
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Continental
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:39 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 20):

Yes. Can't wait to see the whole beautiful state of California stink up of weed as the beautiful city of Amsterdam does. Of course the irony of treehuggers driving around in their Prius and complaining about the effects of mankind on the environment while smoking a smelly joint without regards for anyone else around them will be lost in most.

Ha yes, wouldn't that be something to see the state enveloped in a giant cloud of dope smoke? Maybe that would be better than the LA smog!  
 
mham001
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:26 pm

I can say I am a poster child for why it shouldn't be legal. Nobody seems to want to admit how many lives have been wasted over the years as children going through the formative years drugging themselves into unmotivated globs who do not come close to realizing their potential.

That said, the ballot measure to legalize in California, Prop 19 actually will clamp down more on the those under 21 who right now can smoke and buy with virtual impunity. It is rather ironic that more people will probably go to jail after Prop 19 than do now.
 
PPVRA
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:01 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 19):
Goon for California

Oh wow, I meant to say GOOD!

Quoting mham001 (Reply 22):
I can say I am a poster child for why it shouldn't be legal. Nobody seems to want to admit how many lives have been wasted over the years as children going through the formative years drugging themselves into unmotivated globs who do not come close to realizing their potential.

Legalizing is not the same as endorsing its use. Look at tobacco for example.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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DocLightning
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:03 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 20):

As if the economy of the state of California needed anything else to make its citizens even more lethargic.

Nah, we make a lot of wine here and we're all drunk already, so this isn't going to cause too much more trouble.

After all, it's not like our state's GDP is the largest in the union, accounting for 13% of the total, or like our per-capita GDP is the 11th highest of all states in the union. I suppose if we weren't all drunk on wine and high on pot we might do better!  
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seb146
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:25 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 20):
As if the economy of the state of California needed anything else to make its citizens even more lethargic.

Huh? Have you ever been to California? I mean, outside Anaheim or Hollywood?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 20):
Can't wait to see the whole beautiful state of California stink up of weed as the beautiful city of Amsterdam does. Of course the irony of treehuggers driving around in their Prius and complaining about the effects of mankind on the environment while smoking a smelly joint without regards for anyone else around them will be lost in most.

Really? I live about 45 miles north of San Francisco. I have been to the city about a dozen times in the last year. I have smelled some kind of non-fireplace smoke, sure. For every 10 times I smell cigars or cigarettes, I smell either cloves or pot. I went to gay pride two years ago on Castro. I smelled pot maybe twice and cloves maybe three or four times. No cigars or cigarettes.

But, beyond that, how many "treehuggers" actually smoke anything or drive any kind of cars? The really ironic thing is: those that are against Prop 19 are the ones who were/are very heavy into smoking.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 22):
I can say I am a poster child for why it shouldn't be legal. Nobody seems to want to admit how many lives have been wasted over the years as children going through the formative years drugging themselves into unmotivated globs who do not come close to realizing their potential.

So, you chose not to listen to the teachings of your parents. I went to a high school of 600 in the 1980s about 200 miles east of Portland. We had cocaine, pot, heroin, acid.... everything the big cities had. The difference? Nearly all of us experimented. Out of those of us who did, nearly all of us gave it up quickly because we had better things we wanted. We made a choice. We chose our futures. Kids today don't hear that choice from their parents. Parents try to be "cool" instead of being parents. I make a choice every day to not smoke pot. Actually, I can't because I have a horrible reaction to it. Also, I have better things to do. I also make a choice to vote yes on 19 because of what I have experinced over the years: pot helps a lot more than alcohol, tobacco or other drugs. It is the people who mix pot with other drugs like alcohol, cocaine, heroin that are the bad guys.
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Pyrex
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:54 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):
After all, it's not like our state's GDP is the largest in the union, accounting for 13% of the total,

It better well be, given that it's 12% of the total population (not counting illegal immigrants).

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):
or like our per-capita GDP is the 11th highest of all states in the union.

What, only 11th in the nation? Looking at the tax rates and the cost of everything there you would have thought that it was a clear number 1.

Fact is, California is a massive ponzi scheme. For years it sold off its weather, its coastline and its scenery but now that well is running dry. People would put up with how messed up the political scene is and the inanity of a big and influential segment of its population in exchange for the sunshine and the beaches, but now that shtick is over, and people are no longer moving out there in droves to prop up the place. What other state does massive advertising campaigns involving its superstar Governor and his wife with TV spots trying to convince people to move there and keep the party going?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):
Nah, we make a lot of wine here and we're all drunk already, so this isn't going to cause too much more trouble.

So you are really going to compare a social drink that has been part of mankind's culture since the dawn of civilization and can very well be (and most often is) drunk without the express desire to chemically alter your mind with a weed that is ingested with no other purpose but to numb your senses? What next, are you going to compare coffee to Red Bull?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 25):
Huh? Have you ever been to California? I mean, outside Anaheim or Hollywood?

Yes I have (haven't been to Anaheim, though, and spent maybe a grand total of 1 hour in Hollywood),

Quoting seb146 (Reply 25):
Really? I live about 45 miles north of San Francisco. I have been to the city about a dozen times in the last year. I have smelled some kind of non-fireplace smoke, sure. For every 10 times I smell cigars or cigarettes, I smell either cloves or pot. I went to gay pride two years ago on Castro. I smelled pot maybe twice and cloves maybe three or four times. No cigars or cigarettes.

And the reason why you don't smell it that much is because of the fact it is illegal most people who smoke pot at least have the common decency to not do it out in the open. If you legalize it you will not only have more people smoking it but the ones who already do so doing it more frequently and in more places. Not only that, you will invite every sort of undesirable tourists in. Pretty soon you end up with Amsterdam, who smells of weed everywhere.
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DocLightning
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:13 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 26):
Pretty soon you end up with Amsterdam, who smells of weed everywhere.

1) You have not been there

or

2) You have been there and are deliberately exaggerating (lying).

Parts of Amsterdam do reek of pot. Most parts of Amsterdam do not.

Just because YOU don't like something doesn't mean it should be banned. I don't like the Southern Baptist religion but you don't hear me calling for banning it.
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mham001
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:55 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 26):
And the reason why you don't smell it that much is because of the fact it is illegal most people who smoke pot at least have the common decency to not do it out in the open. If you legalize it you will not only have more people smoking it but the ones who already do so doing it more frequently and in more places. Not only that, you will invite every sort of undesirable tourists in. Pretty soon you end up with Amsterdam, who smells of weed everywhere.

What thoroughly p*sses me off about it that right now it IS legal to smoke it in public with a medical marijuana card. I see it now in my residential neighborhood, guys openly lighting up on the sidewalk. I can't even let my kid go to the corner store any more. The medical marijuana law was a total, complete sham and most people realize it now. Frankly, if someone likes smoking pot, they should hope that Prop 19 doesn't pass.

California is a joke, there is no way I'm raising my kids here through middle school years.

My wife comes from one of those countries where all drugs are heavily criminalized. The drug problem is miniscule because drugs of all types are frowned upon by society. The kids in high school rarely smoke and the country produces an abundance of engineers, doctors and other professionals (one of their main exports). But California can be proud of their stoner culture.

Amsterdam has produced some pretty good studies (that I don't have referance too any more) that paint a picture that pot proponents don't want to talk about.
 
N1120A
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:33 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 7):
I hope SB 1449 shows that we need to pass Prop 19 as well.

Absolutely. The great thing to hear is that Prop 19 has Yes leading No by more than the margin of error, despite every major political candidate or sitting office holder (Arnie, Whitman, Boxer, Fiorina, Brown, Feinstein) opposing it.

Quoting YYZflyer (Reply 8):

If it was legal/decriminalized in the entire country wouldn't you be able to? Or would the military still not allow it?

The military can make up whatever rules they want.

Quoting YYZflyer (Reply 8):

I'd guess it's probably close to 90%, including people who have only tried it once. I think fewer would admit it over the internet though, as I've seen a few posts on here saying why would they admit it.

I'm actually in the 10-25% who have never, ever smoked weed (might have gotten a little contact high in Christiania in CPH) and I fully support the complete and total legalization of marijuana for adult consumption.
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DocLightning
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:10 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 29):

Absolutely. The great thing to hear is that Prop 19 has Yes leading No by more than the margin of error, despite every major political candidate or sitting office holder (Arnie, Whitman, Boxer, Fiorina, Brown, Feinstein) opposing it.

I wonder why they oppose it, though.

My guess is not enough tax revenue.
-Doc Lightning-

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Francoflier
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:44 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
Where there any celebrations on the lawn of the State Capitol building?

They wanted to, but the authorities feared for the well-being of said lawn...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
mham001
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:03 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
My guess is not enough tax revenue.

The tax revenue is a fallacy. They took the some stated value of the marijuana industry and calculated sales tax. Problem is, just like medical marijuana, most jurisdictions will not allow sales within their boundaries. Prop 19 does not force them to allow sales and all private sales will be illegal, as they are today, except selling or giving to an 18,19, or 20 year old gets heightened jail time under Prop 19. Without a place to buy, a stoner will have to grow his own and there is no revenue there. Much of what they say about prop 19 is a sham. There will be no great increase in revenues, there will be no great decrease in arrests and no great decrease in the black market.
It is a very messy proposition that will be tied up in courts for a very long time. The feds will be forced to sue because it infringes on their jurisdiction, just like they say the Arizona immigration law does.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:10 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 32):
The feds will be forced to sue because it infringes on their jurisdiction, just like they say the Arizona immigration law does.

The difference is that the Arizona law brings up a few very blatantly constitutional issues, like who defines citizenship and what defines "probable cause."

The Constitution does not grant the feds the power to ban drugs. It does give them other powers that could be construed as authorizing drug enforcement. So this is much murkier.

I do think that we will see people growing it and selling it informally. There will be no way to enforce a ban on private sales unless people are selling it on the streets.

I'm voting for Prop 19 while holding my nose, just like I voted for the medicinal bill in 2000. It's not ideal, but it's better than the status quo.
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N1120A
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:22 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 28):

California is a joke, there is no way I'm raising my kids here through middle school years.

Fine. Leave. We need fewer people.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):

I wonder why they oppose it, though.

They have to. Too much political capital to lose if they don't.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):

My guess is not enough tax revenue.

Nah. Its the social and "law and order" issues. Good thing the citizens of the state see things differently.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 32):

The tax revenue is a fallacy.

Garbage. Look how much each state makes on tobacco and alcohol.
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Pyrex
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:36 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 27):
Parts of Amsterdam do reek of pot. Most parts of Amsterdam do not.

You are right. Only the nice parts, especially the ones around Central Station where most people who go to Amsterdam eventually pass by.

You can be on the train listening to your iPod with your eyes closed and you know when the stop is Amsterdam, just by the smell of weed that permeates the train even before the doors open.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 34):
Fine. Leave. We need fewer people.

Then why is your governor spending millions of dollars in TV campaigns trying to convince suckers to move into the state to keep the party rolling?
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MadameConcorde
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:51 am

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Gov. Schwartzenegger signed SB 1449 which takes immediate effect. As of today, possession of one ounce of marijuana in California is a mere infraction, the same as a parking or speeding ticket.

I suppose it will be the same with weed, not only marijuana. I am not a user but I think this is a very good thing, coming from a said conservative politician. It should be the same in all countries.
Now how about mushrooms, salvia, etc?

Yet I hope they will never de-criminalize drugs such as cocaine, crack, heroine, morphine and other such hard drugs.
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mham001
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:52 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 33):

I do think that we will see people growing it and selling it informally. There will be no way to enforce a ban on private sales unless people are selling it on the streets.

It will be enforced just as it is now, undercover narcs, informants and raids. Same jail and court costs.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 34):

Fine. Leave. We need fewer people.

Thats rich. The potheads will support a healthy California tax base. Right.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 34):

Garbage. Look how much each state makes on tobacco and alcohol.

I recommend you research how many jurisdictions currently do not allow sales of even medicinal marijuana. Then notice those that do are cracking down on the number of dispensaries because of the riff raff they have attracted. Now compare that with the pictures of utopia drawn by Pop 19 supporters of pot for sale at every Gas Mart and corner store in the state with the dollars rolling into Sacramento. It ain't gonna happen.
 
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:58 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 35):

Then why is your governor spending millions of dollars in TV campaigns trying to convince suckers to move into the state to keep the party rolling?

What are you talking about?

Quoting mham001 (Reply 37):

Thats rich. The potheads will support a healthy California tax base. Right.

California's tax base is already extremely healthy, except of course our property tax base. We just happen to be nice enough to allow massive transfers of our tax dollars to other states.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 37):

I recommend you research how many jurisdictions currently do not allow sales of even medicinal marijuana.

Sure. Inferior states who spend California's money and then try and tell us how to handle things. All while having a ridiculous drug policy.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 37):
Then notice those that do are cracking down on the number of dispensaries because of the riff raff they have attracted.

You attract riff raff when you make things illegal. Al Capone? Nothing without Prohibition. Cannabis should be as legal as alcohol and tobacco.
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mham001
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:25 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
What are you talking about?

He's talking about the pr campaigns he has seen that are trying to attract people to the state. It is well known that people with money have been fleeing the state.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
California's tax base is already extremely healthy, except of course our property tax base. We just happen to be nice enough to allow massive transfers of our tax dollars to other states.

HUH? We have a record going right now of no budget agreement (every year) because there is not enough money and you claim 'health'? You seem to be confusing federal tax with state tax and you should note that GDP per capita is only 11th in the country. Poor when you consider the amount of resources available here.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
Sure. Inferior states who spend California's money and then try and tell us how to handle things. All while having a ridiculous drug policy.

Umm, no. I am talking about jurisdictions within California who don't allow medicinal sales.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
You attract riff raff when you make things illegal. Al Capone? Nothing without Prohibition. Cannabis should be as legal as alcohol and tobacco.

No, the riff raff came with the legalization through the medicinal law. A sham of the highest magnitude. BTW, many would like to see tobacco illegal any way possible.
 
Pyrex
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:36 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
We just happen to be nice enough to allow massive transfers of our tax dollars to other states.

I thought California was all for wealth redistribution? Or, in typical liberal fashion, it is only when you are talking about other people's money?
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
N1120A
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:44 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 39):
We have a record going right now of no budget agreement (every year) because there is not enough money and you claim 'health'?

The problem with budgets is the idiotic super-majority rule. End the obstructionism and we would save hundreds of millions a year just on the budgetary process.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 39):
It is well known that people with money have been fleeing the state.

Oh is it? Source?

Quoting mham001 (Reply 39):
You seem to be confusing federal tax with state tax

Not at all.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 39):
you should note that GDP per capita is only 11th in the country. Poor when you consider the amount of resources available here.

Um, except that California has a much more diverse economy, which would necessarily lead to a lower GDP per capita. We were 9th of the states (not counting DC) in 2009, with the ones ahead being those that lean heavily on a small number of industries, rely on natural resources, have minuscule populations or some combination thereof. The overall GDP is massive, and much of the GDP of other states feeds off trade from California.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 39):

No, the riff raff came with the legalization through the medicinal law

No, the riff raff came because it was only quasi-legalized.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 39):
BTW, many would like to see tobacco illegal any way possible.

Really? Have a source for those "many?"
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seb146
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:52 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 26):
If you legalize it you will not only have more people smoking it but the ones who already do so doing it more frequently and in more places.

Like tobacco? Tobacco is legal for those over 18. I never ever see anyone in the mall or the store or school smoking tobacco. No one but no one smokes more in public than at home. I was a tobacco smoker for 10 years.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 26):
Not only that, you will invite every sort of undesirable tourists in. Pretty soon you end up with Amsterdam, who smells of weed everywhere.
Quoting Pyrex (Reply 26):
Yes I have (haven't been to Anaheim, though, and spent maybe a grand total of 1 hour in Hollywood),

So, since you have been outside Los Angeles, you know how things are in places like Mendocino County, Yreka, Fresno, Needles, Redding.....

Mendocino County is about an hour from here. One of the largest pot growing areas in the nation. Driving along 101 or CA-1 through the small towns and walking amongst the people, there is not the smell of weed at all. Redwoods and ocean. Save two or three parks total in Ukiah and Eureka.

Not only that, medical marijuana is legal in Montana, Oregon, and Washington. People can say they have some kind of constant pain and obtain marijuana for medical purposes. Even before it was legal for medical, there were a few that would smoke in public. But, now that it is legal? About the same.
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DocLightning
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:00 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 35):

You can be on the train listening to your iPod with your eyes closed and you know when the stop is Amsterdam, just by the smell of weed that permeates the train even before the doors open.

Clearly, you've never actually been there. I have been there many many times, and what you say is completely false.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 41):
End the obstructionism and we would save hundreds of millions a year just on the budgetary process.

It's on the ballot!
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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StuckInCA
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:18 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 40):
I thought California was all for wealth redistribution? Or, in typical liberal fashion, it is only when you are talking about other people's money?

Why do you speak of California as if it's one homogeneous political entity? I could turn the argument on you and say that the same could be said of the United States. Which... means... you. Right?

It irritates me beyond belief to listen to people in red states (which may or may not be you) talk about California as a failed state when their states, in fact, collect federal money that was.... collected from California which gets very little in return compared to so many red states.
 
Pyrex
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:33 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 42):
Like tobacco? Tobacco is legal for those over 18. I never ever see anyone in the mall or the store or school smoking tobacco. No one but no one smokes more in public than at home. I was a tobacco smoker for 10 years.

The difference is, as obnoxious as tobacco smoke is, someone smoking a cigarette out in the open stinks up the place maybe within a 5 metre radius of them. The smell of weed smoke is much more overpowering and lingers for longer.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43):
Clearly, you've never actually been there.

If you say so. I will tell my buddies who were traveling with me the 2 times I thought I was there, then, see if they have any clues as to where I actually was.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43):
I have been there many many times, and what you say is completely false.

I have heard this from several sources, including friends of mine who lived in the Netherlands and were very much pro-weed. Maybe they were liers as well.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 44):
It irritates me beyond belief to listen to people in red states (which may or may not be you) talk about California as a failed state when their states, in fact, collect federal money that was.... collected from California which gets very little in return compared to so many red states.

It irritates me beyond belief people in California complaining that they "do not receive their fair share of federal dollars" at the same time they boast about the fact that they are the richest state - guess what, that is the way taxation works. I am sure the people in Oakland or South Central, LA, receive CA state money that was collected from the people in Orange County. Why don't you complain about that?

And the fact is, by far the biggest federal spending is done on military and Medicare/Medicaid, so states that have large elderly populations (like FL) or large military presence (like VA and AK) will naturally receive a bigger proportion of federal spending.
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PPVRA
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:57 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
What are you talking about?

I think this is what he is talking about. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md69zCJKD1c

It's on TV fairly often here in Atlanta.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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DocLightning
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:28 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 45):

I have heard this from several sources, including friends of mine who lived in the Netherlands and were very much pro-weed. Maybe they were liers as well.

Probably so. Per capita use of marijuana in the Netherlands is a bit over half of what it is here. Amsterdam is famous for a lot more than pot. Many people go there for the art museums (Van Gogh, et al), diamonds, and, of course, the sex trade. Not to mention the straight businesspeople who go there because the Netherlands is a massive world trade and shipping center.

And having been there a bit more than twice, I can say that the idea that you can smell the pot from the train at Centraal Station is patently false.

There are certainly streets where the "cafes" are located where you will get high just going for a walk, but the whole city does NOT reek of pot.

And I guarantee you that legalization will change marijuana consumption in CA very little. It's been de-facto legal in San Francisco for the better part of a decade and not much changed here. The SFPD lists marijuana enforcement as the absolute lowest priority for police business. In other words, if there might be a parking ticket or jaywalking ticket that hasn't been handed out, then they cannot start ticketing for possession. You can walk up to a SFPD cruiser and roll a joint on the hood and they won't do anything unless you are unlucky enough to have chosen to do so on the one day when every last parking ticket in the city has been issued.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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N1120A
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:13 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 46):

I think this is what he is talking about. .

That is a tourism commercial. We get commercials for Alaska, Hawai'i, Florida and even the Carolinas here, among others.

Shoot, our biggest commercial is the Rose Parade.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43):

It's on the ballot!

I know. I'm voting for it. I just hope everyone does.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 44):
collected from California which gets very little in return compared to so many red states.

Bingo

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 45):
I am sure the people in Oakland or South Central, LA, receive CA state money that was collected from the people in Orange County.

Actually, very little given our system of taxation. Besides, L.A. County has plenty of money of its own that it spends. Meanwhile, Orange County has gotten tons of Caltrans investment over the years, while larger places like L.A. and the Bay haven't had nearly as much.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
PSA53
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RE: CA Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession.

Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:18 am

I was for this issue,but just too many unanswered questions.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 44):
It irritates me beyond belief to listen to people in red states (which may or may not be you) talk about California as a failed state when their states, in fact, collect federal money that was.... collected from California which gets very little in return compared to so many red states.

No doubt,some states would fall on they're ass if it wasn't for us.

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Quoting AKviator (Reply 2):

I believe there are little to no health consequences

Smoking is still bad for you, no matter what's being smoked. So there are consequences to it. But cigarettes are legal, so....

Absolutely,Mir.

Where's Santa Monica in their second hand smoke campaign.
And what about the children?What control measures are in place to prevent from them being exposed to the weed,directly or indirectly.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 6):
Quoting AKviator (Reply 2):
Should it be legalized, I can see it becoming a thriving industry creating jobs by the thousands and providing a little boost for the economy.

Not to mention the extra revenues generated by taxation.

Yes.As a blue state, more Democrat social hand out programs for votes.Oh.boy!
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