|Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 4):|
sorry, but as much as we all want this, this just isn't going to happen with the new CAFE standards. Thanks, once again, Big Government.
Agree and I've been stating the present and future issues w/CAFE on this board ever since I started participating in the Non-Av. forums 6-1/2 years ago.
|Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 4):|
Not going to happen until the American people get serious and vote in people who understand the real oil business and ignore the tree huggers. Sorry, but that's the truth. Like it or not.
Again, you're preaching to the choir on that one.
The main issue (and I stated before) is that Lincoln execs. may now be viewing life without a Town Car nor a suitable
successor in place and they're getting a bit nervous. Despite Lincoln letting the Town Car become stale over the years, the vehicle still had a sense of relevence and purpose.
If it weren't an issue nor didn't have a snowball's chance of happening; why would Lincoln even bother to propose it?
While Cadillac faced a similar situation after 1996; they STILL OFFERED V8
ENGINES (and some powerful ones at that), which softened the blow a bit.
|Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 10):|
Lincoln could beat Cadillac into this compact/subcompact market (and join Mercedes in the class since M-B offers A and B class vehicles in some markets) with vehicles like this Concept C sedan:
First and foremost, that Concept C is as ugly as pig-vomit.
Second, aside from the CAFE mandates and possibly price differential; where does it say that luxury car brands HAVE to offer vehicles of EVERY size and type? The only reason why imports like BMW and Mercedes do such is because the price differential
between its compacts and its large flagship models is a lot more extreme.
(the Concept C) shouldn't be ANYTHING.
|Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12):|
Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 10):
I mean, it's working for BMW right now with the Mini Cooper, right?
But at the same time, it's a Mini, not BMW. They didn't put their name on it. They finally brought the 1-Series, but that is sportier, rear drive and can get pretty pricey.
There's that price thing again.
|Quoting TSS (Reply 13):|
Not too hard to achieve, since '61 Continentals weren't remarkably roomy inside for a luxury car. At 123 inches of wheelbase and 212.4 inches of overall length, they were eight inches shorter in wheelbase and 13 inches shorter overall than the '60 Lincolns they replaced and around 4 inches longer in both wheelbase and overall length than standard '61 Fords, but with a much less space-efficient chassis.
Having recently read the history of how the '61 Continental came to be (from a back issue of Collectible Automobile
); one gets a perspective of what was going on at the time. A few facts to note, some (but not all) of them from the read (which I would recommend):
1. The large '58-'60 Lincolns WEREN"T turning a profit for Lincoln; according to the article Lincoln, at the time, was either hardly or not turing a profit AT ALL
. Many, even back then, admit that the car got TOO BIG. The original plan for the '58 Lincoln was for it to be on a 128" wheelbase but it grew to 131. Note: these cars were larger than even the '70-'79 models.
2. The standard Ford/Lincoln/Mercury divisions enlarged into Ford/Edsel/Mercury/Lincoln/Continental divisions in 1958. Side note: The Continental division (or subdivision) featured dressier Lincoln models named the Continental Marks III ('58), IV
('59) and V ('60). As a result, all Lincolns and Mercurys became very large. This multi-division launch coincided with a recession period and we all know what happened there... especially with the Edsel which barely made it into the 1960 model year but not the calendar year (the last '60 Edsel rolled out in Nov. 1959). For 1961, Ford Motor Company reverted back to its familiar Ford/Lincoln/Mercury divisions which would last for the next 49 years with the Mercury brand being recently retired.
3. Throughout the 50s, from a styling standpoint, Lincolns lacked a sense of identity continuity; sounds a bit like Buick during the 2000s. It was noted that while the '61 Continentals certainly differed from its predecessors (and any other car at the time); the one item that continued was the Lincoln 'Star' logo which was first introduced in 1956 and still exists, in some form, today.
4. While Lincoln did see an improvement in sales for 1961, its percentage gain in the market at the time was attributed, in part, to a soft year in sales across the board
. Sales of later models would improve over time.
5. Lincoln wasn't the only one that underwent a downsizing at the time. Mercury downsized for '61 as well, when it adopted a slightly stretched Ford platform (except for the station wagons). In the early '60s, following the demise of the DeSoto brand, Dodge and Plymouth (in retrospect, overplayed their hand) downsized as well only to receive a backlash from consumers.
It is worth noting that the Lincolns would eventually start growing again. In 1964, the cars wheelbase was stretched to 126 inches where it remained until 1970. BTW is that 212.4 inch overall length right? Most of the sources list the overall lengths of the '61-'69 Lincolns ranging from 215 to 220 inches.
The bottom line here is that the smaller '61 Continental saved the division from extinction. Today, there's a similar but opposite situation taking place. With the Town Car gone after 2011; Lincoln is now finding itself at a similar crossroads. While the smaller MKZ and MKX have had some
success; those vehicles were NEVER considered to take the place nor fill the role of the Town Car and its predecessors. Remember, contrary to popular belief, the MKS was initially marketed as an in-between
model sizewise with respect to the MKZ and Town Car and NOT a Town Car replacement nor substitute. The latter notion only came about when increases in CAFE standards became reality.
The question here is will Lincoln have the guts to make this new Continental V8
powered and RWD despite CAFE? Now that Lincoln is offering a Hybrid option on its mid-size MKZ sedan (courtesy of the Mercury Milan's demise), there could be some breathing room here. Mileage credits from the sales of Hybrid MKZs can offset any penalties incurred from sales of larger gasoline-powered vehicles.
Nonetheless, I think that Lincoln should just do what Mercedes and others have done for years... offer the model and accept any gas-guzzler taxes that exist and place it on the sticker price. It's not like buyers of these types of vehicles care THAT
much about the fueling costs.
|Quoting DucatiRacer (Reply 14):|
charging that same $1000 to the buyer of a $30,000 car might very well be a deal-killer.
Most if not all large new Lincolns and Cadillacs have been priced well over $40,000 to 45,000
for many years now, so a $1000 guzzler tax takes up a less percentage than a new car priced at $30,000.
And if that is indeed an issue, then maybe it's time to offer either some diesel versions (personal preference) or cough-cough
hybrid options to soften the blow. As I mentioned before, Lincoln will be offering a Hybrid version of its MKZ sedan (both city and highway ratings are above the 2016 CAFE target of 35.5 mpg); there's no reason that they could NOT offer similar for its other vehicles.
[Edited 2010-10-07 08:13:04]
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981