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stasisLAX
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Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:28 am

Ford stated yesterday it intends to close 500 of its 1200 Lincoln dealerships and plans a full revamp of the Lincoln model line-up,

Over the next four years, "Ford plans to introduce seven new or redesigned Lincoln models beginning with the refreshed 2011 MKX crossover." According to dealers that were shown concept vehicles early this week, "the automaker is developing a flagship, a large sedan that harkens back to the Continental" according to Automotive News.

Source: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...=/20101005/RETAIL07/101009946/1256

Source and further information/photos: http://jalopnik.com/5655981/continen...-the-new-town-car?skyline=true&s=i


Perhaps my beloved Lincoln Continental concept sedan will indeed become a reality!

2002 Lincoln Continental Concept


[Edited 2010-10-05 23:31:46]
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BMI727
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:00 am

This is a good idea as long as it's a real Continental and not another rebadged Ford. It better cost at least sixty large and be worth the money.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Superfly
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:49 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Perhaps my beloved Lincoln Continental concept sedan will indeed become a reality!

I hope so!

It better not be a dressed up Taurus.
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PHLBOS
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:38 pm

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Source: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...=/20101005/RETAIL07/101009946/1256

Exerpt:

Ford spokesman Christian Bokich denied a Reuters report the automaker is developing a flagship, large sedan that harkens back to the Continental. In its report, Reuters cited dealers briefed on the plans on Monday.

“The MKS is our flagship,” Bokich added.


   Am I the only one that sees a contradiction here. Either this new sedan (I will believe it when I see it) will be a flagship or it's the MKS (post-Town Car).    Which is it?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Perhaps my beloved Lincoln Continental concept sedan will indeed become a reality!

I hope so!

It better not be a dressed up Taurus.

If what's stated in the Jalopnik article is true; it appears that it will STILL use the FWD D4 (Flex/MKT) platform.

Exerpt:

But back to the name — another source tell us Ford hasn't yet settled on one yet, claiming, "we haven't named this car yet. It is based on the MKT but final nomenclature is forthcoming next year."

BIG MISTAKE! EPIC FAIL!

If Lincoln's seriously going to launch a new, pricier, more luxurious Continental sedan, they have to do it right IMHO; and doing it right means offering a V8 engine AND keeping it RWD!!!!!

A stretched version of either the D3 (MKS/Taurus) or D4 (MKT/Flex) DOESN'T MAKE THE CUT!!!!!

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Perhaps my beloved Lincoln Continental concept sedan will indeed become a reality!

IMHO, what Lincoln SHOULD'VE done, as a production cost-saving measure, was to take the current Panther (Town Car) platform and restyle it inside and out to resemble that Continental Concept AND CALL it THE CONTINENTAL!

Had Lincoln done that and offered it in, say either 2003, 2004 or 2005... PRE-RECESSION; the retro styling alone would've seen an increase in both fleet and retail sales (as Ford found out when it launched its then-newly styled Mustang in 2005) and that increase may have been enough to FINALLY force Lincoln to add the appropriate upgrades to the car such as the new 5.0L V8 and 6-speed transmission today and this discussion would not be taking place.

2 Other exerpts from the first article:

“We have to do things differently than we have been doing,” Bob Tasca, a Rhode Island Lincoln dealer and head of the Lincoln Dealer Council, told reporters after the dealer meeting today. “If we keep doing what we have been doing, we will never be a luxury brand.
...
Over the next four years, Ford plans to introduce seven new or redesigned Lincoln models beginning with the refreshed 2011 MKX crossover.

   Is it me or do I see a contradiction here. First it says that Lincoln needs to do something different and then four short paragraphs later it mentions that it will be offering several new models. Unless these new models are totally different from its Ford cousins, to me, it sounds like Lincoln's trying to do (and be) what Mercury was doing for nearly 50 years. Sorry, but a Focus or Fiesta -based Lincoln ISN'T the answer, and they STRUCK OUT TWICE with its Blackwood and MK-whatever pick-up truck offerings.

If one looks back to when Lincoln was at its most profitable, it was back when there were NO MORE THAN THREE different models offered. Maybe they need to learn from their past successes and capitalize on that.

I stated similar in the Limo thread but it's worth repeating here; Lincoln may be facing a similar 'near-death' scenario come 2012. They've faced this 3 different times before; the last one being the late-50s but the '61 Continental saved them from that.

We may be seeing history repeat itself if Lincoln does indeed finally get serious and offers a large, RWD, V8-powered Continental sedan.

If one reads between the lines of the posted articles; it's basically stating that, like it or not, the Town Car and its attributes still has relevance and is still Lincoln's backbone vehicle. Most of us large car enthusiats know that, but the higher-ups have been ignoring that for over a decade.

[Edited 2010-10-06 10:06:49]
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GuitrThree
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:30 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 3):
BIG MISTAKE! EPIC FAIL!

If Lincoln's seriously going to launch a new, pricier, more luxurious Continental sedan, they have to do it right IMHO; and doing it right means offering a V8 engine AND keeping it RWD!!!!!



sorry, but as much as we all want this, this just isn't going to happen with the new CAFE standards. Thanks, once again, Big Government.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 3):
We may be seeing history repeat itself if Lincoln does indeed finally get serious and offers a large, RWD, V8-powered Continental sedan.



Not going to happen until the American people get serious and vote in people who understand the real oil business and ignore the tree huggers. Sorry, but that's the truth. Like it or not.
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ShyFlyer
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:38 pm

Unfortunately, it looks ripe for ghetto pimpin' like the Chrysler 300.
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BMI727
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:42 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 3):
“The MKS is our flagship,” Bokich added.

That is a pretty piss poor flagship. A rebadged Taurus.   Even Cadillac does better.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 3):
doing it right means offering a V8 engine AND keeping it RWD!!!!!

Offering a V8? If you do the Continental right, you make the V8 standard and offer a V12.
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UAL747
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:45 pm

Will be a Chrysler 300 in Lincoln Badges, and yes, it will be ghetto. Ugly and unimaginative in my opinion.

UAL
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TSS
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:48 am

When the Aston Martin Lagonda sedan debuted in 1976, my first thought was "Wow! It looks like a Lincoln Town Car from the year 2000!"
http://hooniverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/aston_martin_lagonda.jpg
Even the dashboard was stylistically similar to the 1966-69 Lincoln Continentals:

Then when Ford bought Aston Martin in 1994, I thought "Hmmm... maybe the Lagonda really will be the inspiration for the next-generation Town Car". I mean seriously, why else would Ford spend good money on what's basically a cottage industry except to get the rights to their design portfolio?
But when the year 2000 finally rolled around, you can imagine my disappointment that the then-new Lincoln Town Car was not a clean, crisp, razor-edged design inspired by the lines of the Aston Martin Lagonda and select Lincolns of the past but was a formless, shapeless, blob of a car apparently inspired by a jello mold that's been out of the refrigerator a bit too long.     


I say "Bravo!" for Ford getting back to building Lincolns that look like Lincolns! Now if they'll just make sure that in addition to looking like Lincolns are supposed to look the new Lincoln(s) are as fast as Lincolns are supposed to be as well, then I'll have no complaints.
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Superfly
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:02 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 4):
sorry, but as much as we all want this, this just isn't going to happen with the new CAFE standards. Thanks, once again, Big Government.

...and yet the enlightend European imports that guzzle way more gas gets a free pass.   

Quoting TSS (Reply 8):
When the Aston Martin Lagonda sedan debuted in 1976, my first thought was "Wow! It looks like a Lincoln Town Car from the year 2000!"

Interesting you say that.
Just a few months prior to leaving the United States (in June), I was driving down the highway in the East Bay in my 1977 Lincoln Town Car and drove along side a Aston Martin Lagonda.
That is a gorgeous car.

Quoting TSS (Reply 8):
But when the year 2000 finally rolled around, you can imagine my disappointment that the then-new Lincoln Town Car

I agree. The 1998 - 2002 Town Car was a low-point. Yet the minor changes for 2003 made a world of difference.
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stasisLAX
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:35 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 3):
Most of us large car enthusiats know that, but the higher-ups have been ignoring that for over a decade.

But I'm of the opinion that there is a younger audience out there for Lincoln to tap into - the younger audience that likes the Mini Cooper and has no problems in paying a premium price ($30K USD) for a premium, stylish small vehicle that uses less fuel and has a smaller carbon footprint. Better for the environment is important to some buyers. Lincoln could beat Cadillac into this compact/subcompact market (and join Mercedes in the class since M-B offers A and B class vehicles in some markets) with vehicles like this Concept C sedan:

Lincoln Concept C sedan


Imagine a small car with the interior space of the 1961 Continental Sedan, but with almost half the exterior size, and powered by an eco-boost 1.6L four cylinder 4 motor that gets close to 40 mpg on the highway. Maybe a hybrid powertrain too. Stuff the interior with high-tech equipment (like an upgraded version of the Microsoft SYNC system) and wall-to-wall leather and power accessories. It could work - I mean, it's working for BMW right now with the Mini Cooper, right?
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Superfly
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:52 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 10):
with vehicles like this Concept C sedan:

That should be a Mercury.
Lincoln should be in the league with Jaguar, Mercedes and BMW.
Bring back the Concorde
 
BMI727
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:54 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 10):
Imagine a small car with the interior space of the 1961 Continental Sedan, but with almost half the exterior size, and powered by an eco-boost 1.6L four cylinder 4 motor that gets close to 40 mpg on the highway.

Not interested.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 10):
I mean, it's working for BMW right now with the Mini Cooper, right?

But at the same time, it's a Mini, not BMW. They didn't put their name on it. They finally brought the 1-Series, but that is sportier, rear drive and can get pretty pricey.
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:02 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 10):
Imagine a small car with the interior space of the 1961 Continental Sedan,

Not too hard to achieve, since '61 Continentals weren't remarkably roomy inside for a luxury car. At 123 inches of wheelbase and 212.4 inches of overall length, they were eight inches shorter in wheelbase and 13 inches shorter overall than the '60 Lincolns they replaced and around 4 inches longer in both wheelbase and overall length than standard '61 Fords, but with a much less space-efficient chassis.
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:30 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
and yet the enlightend European imports that guzzle way more gas gets a free pass.

Now Fly, we know you hate Euro luxury cars, but let's not tell tales here. The Euro boys don't get a "free" anything. They are just fortunate enough to be able to afford the fines for not reaching compliance. Between MB, BMW and VW (Audi) the Federal government has collected several hundred million dollars in fines over the past 20 years. Not only do the Feds get CAFE fines, but they also get a second bite at the apple by virtue of the gas guzzler tax that is paid by the vehicle purchasers ($1000 for a new BMW 750, for example, which is rolled right into the MSRP).

Unfortunately, the domestics don't have the same luxury enjoyed by the "luxury" imports. First, their volume is much higher, meaning their annual fines for noncompliance (which are multiplied by each vehicle sold) would be astronomical compared to the low volume sellers like MB, BMW, Porsche, etc. Second, their customer base cannot absorb the guzzler tax, which is computed based on mileage estimates, irrespective of the cost of the car. Tacking $1000 on the price of a $96,000 BMW 7 Series is a minor nuisance to the buyer, charging that same $1000 to the buyer of a $30,000 car might very well be a deal-killer.
 
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:57 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 4):
sorry, but as much as we all want this, this just isn't going to happen with the new CAFE standards. Thanks, once again, Big Government.

   Agree and I've been stating the present and future issues w/CAFE on this board ever since I started participating in the Non-Av. forums 6-1/2 years ago.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 4):
Not going to happen until the American people get serious and vote in people who understand the real oil business and ignore the tree huggers. Sorry, but that's the truth. Like it or not.

   Again, you're preaching to the choir on that one.

The main issue (and I stated before) is that Lincoln execs. may now be viewing life without a Town Car nor a suitable successor in place and they're getting a bit nervous. Despite Lincoln letting the Town Car become stale over the years, the vehicle still had a sense of relevence and purpose.

If it weren't an issue nor didn't have a snowball's chance of happening; why would Lincoln even bother to propose it?

While Cadillac faced a similar situation after 1996; they STILL OFFERED V8 ENGINES (and some powerful ones at that), which softened the blow a bit.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 10):
Lincoln could beat Cadillac into this compact/subcompact market (and join Mercedes in the class since M-B offers A and B class vehicles in some markets) with vehicles like this Concept C sedan:

First and foremost, that Concept C is as ugly as pig-vomit.   

Second, aside from the CAFE mandates and possibly price differential; where does it say that luxury car brands HAVE to offer vehicles of EVERY size and type? The only reason why imports like BMW and Mercedes do such is because the price differential between its compacts and its large flagship models is a lot more extreme.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
That should be a Mercury.

Personally, THAT (the Concept C) shouldn't be ANYTHING.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12):
Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 10):
I mean, it's working for BMW right now with the Mini Cooper, right?

But at the same time, it's a Mini, not BMW. They didn't put their name on it. They finally brought the 1-Series, but that is sportier, rear drive and can get pretty pricey.

   There's that price thing again.   

Quoting TSS (Reply 13):
Not too hard to achieve, since '61 Continentals weren't remarkably roomy inside for a luxury car. At 123 inches of wheelbase and 212.4 inches of overall length, they were eight inches shorter in wheelbase and 13 inches shorter overall than the '60 Lincolns they replaced and around 4 inches longer in both wheelbase and overall length than standard '61 Fords, but with a much less space-efficient chassis.

Having recently read the history of how the '61 Continental came to be (from a back issue of Collectible Automobile); one gets a perspective of what was going on at the time. A few facts to note, some (but not all) of them from the read (which I would recommend):

1. The large '58-'60 Lincolns WEREN"T turning a profit for Lincoln; according to the article Lincoln, at the time, was either hardly or not turing a profit AT ALL. Many, even back then, admit that the car got TOO BIG. The original plan for the '58 Lincoln was for it to be on a 128" wheelbase but it grew to 131. Note: these cars were larger than even the '70-'79 models.

2. The standard Ford/Lincoln/Mercury divisions enlarged into Ford/Edsel/Mercury/Lincoln/Continental divisions in 1958. Side note: The Continental division (or subdivision) featured dressier Lincoln models named the Continental Marks III ('58), IV ('59) and V ('60). As a result, all Lincolns and Mercurys became very large. This multi-division launch coincided with a recession period and we all know what happened there... especially with the Edsel which barely made it into the 1960 model year but not the calendar year (the last '60 Edsel rolled out in Nov. 1959). For 1961, Ford Motor Company reverted back to its familiar Ford/Lincoln/Mercury divisions which would last for the next 49 years with the Mercury brand being recently retired.

3. Throughout the 50s, from a styling standpoint, Lincolns lacked a sense of identity continuity; sounds a bit like Buick during the 2000s. It was noted that while the '61 Continentals certainly differed from its predecessors (and any other car at the time); the one item that continued was the Lincoln 'Star' logo which was first introduced in 1956 and still exists, in some form, today.

4. While Lincoln did see an improvement in sales for 1961, its percentage gain in the market at the time was attributed, in part, to a soft year in sales across the board. Sales of later models would improve over time.

5. Lincoln wasn't the only one that underwent a downsizing at the time. Mercury downsized for '61 as well, when it adopted a slightly stretched Ford platform (except for the station wagons). In the early '60s, following the demise of the DeSoto brand, Dodge and Plymouth (in retrospect, overplayed their hand) downsized as well only to receive a backlash from consumers.

It is worth noting that the Lincolns would eventually start growing again. In 1964, the cars wheelbase was stretched to 126 inches where it remained until 1970. BTW is that 212.4 inch overall length right? Most of the sources list the overall lengths of the '61-'69 Lincolns ranging from 215 to 220 inches.

The bottom line here is that the smaller '61 Continental saved the division from extinction. Today, there's a similar but opposite situation taking place. With the Town Car gone after 2011; Lincoln is now finding itself at a similar crossroads. While the smaller MKZ and MKX have had some success; those vehicles were NEVER considered to take the place nor fill the role of the Town Car and its predecessors. Remember, contrary to popular belief, the MKS was initially marketed as an in-between model sizewise with respect to the MKZ and Town Car and NOT a Town Car replacement nor substitute. The latter notion only came about when increases in CAFE standards became reality.

The question here is will Lincoln have the guts to make this new Continental V8 powered and RWD despite CAFE? Now that Lincoln is offering a Hybrid option on its mid-size MKZ sedan (courtesy of the Mercury Milan's demise), there could be some breathing room here. Mileage credits from the sales of Hybrid MKZs can offset any penalties incurred from sales of larger gasoline-powered vehicles.

Nonetheless, I think that Lincoln should just do what Mercedes and others have done for years... offer the model and accept any gas-guzzler taxes that exist and place it on the sticker price. It's not like buyers of these types of vehicles care THAT much about the fueling costs.

Quoting DucatiRacer (Reply 14):
charging that same $1000 to the buyer of a $30,000 car might very well be a deal-killer.

Most if not all large new Lincolns and Cadillacs have been priced well over $40,000 to 45,000 for many years now, so a $1000 guzzler tax takes up a less percentage than a new car priced at $30,000.

And if that is indeed an issue, then maybe it's time to offer either some diesel versions (personal preference) or cough-cough hybrid options to soften the blow. As I mentioned before, Lincoln will be offering a Hybrid version of its MKZ sedan (both city and highway ratings are above the 2016 CAFE target of 35.5 mpg); there's no reason that they could NOT offer similar for its other vehicles.

[Edited 2010-10-07 08:13:04]
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TSS
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:00 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 15):
BTW is that 212.4 inch overall length right? Most of the sources list the overall lengths of the '61-'69 Lincolns ranging from 215 to 220 inches.

From Standard Catalog of Ford, Second Edition, 1903-1998
Suicide-door Lincolns Wheelbase/Overall length:
'61- 123/212.4
'62- 123/213.0
'63- 123/213.3
'64- 126/216.3 (Wheelbase stretch for increased rear leg room)
'65- 126/216.3
'66- 126/220.9 (Longer, more ornate styling on body sides)
'67- 126/220.9
'68- 126/221.0
'69- 126/224.0 (More prominently V'd grille and center front bumper section)

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 15):
Nonetheless, I think that Lincoln should just do what Mercedes and others have done for years... offer the model and accept any gas-guzzler taxes that exist and place it on the sticker price. It's not like buyers of these types of vehicles care THAT much about the fueling costs.

Agreed 100%!
If anything, the amount of gas-guzzler tax paid on a new vehicle would be a bragging point down at the country club.
Furthermore, since the gas-guzzler tax is a federal tax, wouldn't it count as a deductible from one's long-form itemized tax return?
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Superfly
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:22 pm

Quoting DucatiRacer (Reply 14):
Now Fly, we know you hate Euro luxury cars, but let's not tell tales here. The Euro boys don't get a "free" anything. They are just fortunate enough to be able to afford the fines for not reaching compliance. Between MB, BMW and VW (Audi) the Federal government has collected several hundred million dollars in fines over the past 20 years. Not only do the Feds get CAFE fines, but they also get a second bite at the apple by virtue of the gas guzzler tax that is paid by the vehicle purchasers ($1000 for a new BMW 750, for example, which is rolled right into the MSRP).

OK so why is GM and Ford the big punching bag by the environmentalist?
I've never heard of them b-t-h and complain about the gas-guzzling German cars.
By the way, I don't "hate" German luxury cars, I'm just not excited about them like everyone else. It's not my style and I think they're a bit over-rated.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 15):
Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 4):
Not going to happen until the American people get serious and vote in people who understand the real oil business and ignore the tree huggers. Sorry, but that's the truth. Like it or not.

Again, you're preaching to the choir on that one.

Not going to happen.
If we get a Republican Congress, all they're going to do is waste their time investigating Obama in the hopes of finding some dirt.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 15):
Personally, THAT (the Concept C) shouldn't be ANYTHING.

I agree but if they are going to go forward with that, don't put a Lincoln badge on it.
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BMI727
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:15 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 15):
There's that price thing again.

The 1 Series starts about where the Mini ends in terms of price, so there is no competition.
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Kiwirob
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:39 pm

Quoting TSS (Reply 8):
But when the year 2000 finally rolled around, you can imagine my disappointment that the then-new Lincoln Town Car was not a clean, crisp, razor-edged design inspired by the lines of the Aston Martin Lagonda and select Lincolns of the past but was a formless, shapeless, blob of a car apparently inspired by a jello mold that's been out of the refrigerator a bit too long.

You are forgetting the Aston Martin Lagonda Vignale which was almost set for production, it was a blob, may even have been a blob that inspired the Town Car.

 
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falstaff
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:54 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
It better not be a dressed up Taurus.


They already have the MKS. Of course that is WAY better than those worthless Continentals from the late 80s/early 90s. Those 90s models had that V-8 mounted transversely, what a pain in the butt to work on.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
...and yet the enlightend European imports that guzzle way more gas gets a free pass.


There was a report on WWJ Detroit (950 AM) a year or so ago about how BMW doesn't meet CAFE standards on a regular basis and just pays the fines. If they had their European models here they would exceed the standards without effort. According to the report no US or Japanese auto maker has failed to meet CAFE. I hated how a few years ago you had nuts putting "gas guzzler" tickets on big SUVs and pickups. The greens would knock on the Fords and Chevy's but leave the gas guzzling Toyota and Lexus SUVs alone.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
all they're going to do is waste their time investigating Obama in the hopes of finding some dirt.


I hope they do. I love it when the government wastes time on crap that really isn't important, that way they don't get anything done. The fewer laws they pass the better off all of us are.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 19):
may even have been a blob that inspired the Town Car.


Maybe the Town Car inspired that blob...

Quoting TSS (Reply 16):
If anything, the amount of gas-guzzler tax paid on a new vehicle would be a bragging point down at the country club


I would brag about it too. I don't even belong to a country club. All of my redneck buddies would brag about, just like we do when we take the emission control equipment off our old cars and throw it away. I just removed all the smog equipment from my "new" 81 Ford F-100 and was happy to do it. It runs so much better.
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DucatiRacer
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:10 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
OK so why is GM and Ford the big punching bag by the environmentalist?

Granted, they do get a particularly harsh rap from the Green types. I think it is probably for a couple reasons - first, they sell WAY more cars here in the US (gotta spend your propaganda dollars where they matter most, beating up on Porsche does no good in middle America where many folks can go months or years without seeing one in the flesh), second, pick-ups and large SUVs, the Big 3 make tons of them and they just scream "pointless gas hogs" to the enviro-nazis, and finally, while it does not apply literally to Ford, I think the media has come to feel as if the domestic auto industry in general owes its life to the US government and therefore should have to do what is "right" regardless of what other manufacturers are doing (or what the market wants).

Additionally, if you want to really get to the heart of the matter, a lot of the folks with the loudest mouths (not unlike one former Vice President and any number of celebrities) are nothing more than "limosuine-liberals" who want you and I to have no choice in automobiles other than a pitiful selection of gutless 4 cylinder econobox and (questionably green) hybrids. Meanwhile, they love the reclining seats with massage function in the long wheelbase European sedan that takes them to their speaking engagements (not to mention how much they seem to enjoy flying around on Gulfstreams).
 
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:17 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 19):
You are forgetting the Aston Martin Lagonda Vignale which was almost set for production, it was a blob, may even have been a blob that inspired the Town Car.

That looks more like a modern version of the Jaguar Mk. II.
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:12 pm

Quoting TSS (Reply 8):
But when the year 2000 finally rolled around, you can imagine my disappointment that the then-new Lincoln Town Car was not a clean, crisp, razor-edged design inspired by the lines of the Aston Martin Lagonda and select Lincolns of the past but was a formless, shapeless, blob of a car apparently inspired by a jello mold that's been out of the refrigerator a bit too long.

FYI, styling for the 2000 Town Car first rolled out in production for the 1998 model year. For the record, I liked the styling of the 1997 and older Town Cars better than the 1998-2011 models. To be fair, Lincoln did make some styling corrections in 2003; but IMHO they should've went further.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 19):
You are forgetting the Aston Martin Lagonda Vignale which was almost set for production, it was a blob, may even have been a blob that inspired the Town Car.

Styling for the 'blob' 1998 Town Car was likely set in motion during the mid-90s (1995, perhaps). When was the Aston Martin Lagonda Vignale planned and designed?

Quoting falstaff (Reply 20):
They already have the MKS. Of course that is WAY better than those worthless Continentals from the late 80s/early 90s. Those 90s models had that V-8 mounted transversely, what a pain in the butt to work on.

The only V8-powered FWD Continentals were the 1995-2002(?) models. The 1988-1994 Continental's were all powered by the infamous 3.8L V6 that was also offered in the Taurus/Sable (until 1995) and on the Windstar minivans and became known for reliabilty issues.

Quoting DucatiRacer (Reply 21):
while it does not apply literally to Ford, I think the media has come to feel as if the domestic auto industry in general owes its life to the US government and therefore should have to do what is "right" regardless of what other manufacturers are doing (or what the market wants).

The enviros were beating up on GM and Chrysler well before the recent government bailouts.

Quoting DucatiRacer (Reply 21):
Additionally, if you want to really get to the heart of the matter, a lot of the folks with the loudest mouths (not unlike one former Vice President and any number of celebrities) are nothing more than "limosuine-liberals" who want you and I to have no choice in automobiles other than a pitiful selection of gutless 4 cylinder econobox and (questionably green) hybrids. Meanwhile, they love the reclining seats with massage function in the long wheelbase European sedan that takes them to their speaking engagements (not to mention how much they seem to enjoy flying around on Gulfstreams).

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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:55 pm

Quoting DucatiRacer (Reply 21):
beating up on Porsche does no good in middle America where many folks can go months or years without seeing one in the flesh

I lived in middle America (St. Louis) for a long time and I saw Porsche cars all the time.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 23):
For the record, I liked the styling of the 1997 and older Town Cars better than the 1998-2011 models.

I really like the 98 on up models and every model through 1989. I don't like the 1990-94? models with those giant headlights. Other than that I like them.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 23):
The only V8-powered FWD Continentals were the 1995-2002(?) models

Those were the models I was refering to. I should have been more clear on that. The 88-94 had the headgasket blowing 3.8. I have seen more junk 88-94 Continentals than any other era. Around these parts they are usually flat on the ground, rusted, and blowing smoke...
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:49 am

http://www.conceptcarz.com/view/phot...coln-Mark-I-Continental_photo.aspx


Here is the heyday of the Continental style in my opinion.
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:26 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Perhaps my beloved Lincoln Continental concept sedan will indeed become a reality!

Of course Lincoln could be one of the world's great luxury brands. I have said for years that Lincoln stopped building real Lincolns. That concept was exactly what they needed to build. But instead they snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

They became, what, a fake-BMW company selling rebadged Fords ?!. Nobody needs a fake BMW company. Lincoln actually had a role in the market. But it was run by people who were hostile to the brand. The Continental is out of production today because Ford did not comprehend that it was the core product. Imagine if Mercedes stopped building the S-class. Exactly, how stupid. But, Ford did that with the Conti. And the Town Car, which always sold well. That's impressively dumb!

Today I (just to mention, I am a car nut with very good knowledge) have no idea and DON'T CARE what Lincoln is calling its models. Basically they fail to name their products... in marketing, it's basically like killing yourself. But hey, they are the professionals. Anyway. End rant. Lincoln has a great history and they can draw on it. They just need to start building actual Lincolns and being proud of what they are.
 
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:58 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 19):
You are forgetting the Aston Martin Lagonda Vignale which was almost set for production, it was a blob, may even have been a blob that inspired the Town Car.



That is a beautiful car and looks to be what became the Jaguar S-Type.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 20):
BMW doesn't meet CAFE standards on a regular basis and just pays the fines.



Where is Ralph Nader when you need him?
Has any Hollywood celebrity made a fuss about this?

Quoting falstaff (Reply 20):
I love it when the government wastes time on crap that really isn't important, that way they don't get anything done.



The problem is the negative effect it has on society.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 20):
The fewer laws they pass the better off all of us are.



True!

Quoting TSS (Reply 16):
would be a bragging point down at the country club.



Do those exist anymore?

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 23):
For the record, I liked the styling of the 1997 and older Town Cars better than the 1998-2011 models. To be fair, Lincoln did make some styling corrections in 2003; but IMHO they should've went further.




I happen to like the 1990-1994 models and 2003 & newer.
It's amazing what a few minor styling changes can do.
The 1995-1997 where cheapened with plastic replacing woodgrain & chrome and went for a rounded dash.
The minor changes on the 2003 models made a world of difference in terms of profile.


The 2004 concept looked production ready and a no-brainer to produce. Who's idea was it to cancel?
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:17 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 27):
The 2004 concept looked production ready and a no-brainer to produce. Who's idea was it to cancel?


Biggest idiot of all time, whoever it was. They forgot they are in the American car business. Americans love traditional American stuff when it is done right. The Chevy Camaro is a huge success. The Chrysler 300 is retro. Challenger? Mustang? Sellers and favorites.

Not everything should be retro. But classic design doesn't get old. Good design is good design. I think they confused bad execution with a bad concept. The Lincoln Continental 2002 is a great concept as long as it had a quality build. GM and Ford learned how to build great cars, but they abandoned their real brand identity over the years.

The Lincolns and Cadillacs were American icons. Their styling was permanent. There are 10,000,000s of Americans who knew what these brands mean. And we liked them. Hah... Google is putting a Lincoln MKX ad above this thread.... yuck...
 
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:34 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 19):
You are forgetting the Aston Martin Lagonda Vignale which was almost set for production, it was a blob, may even have been a blob that inspired the Town Car.

Looks very British - like a bowler hat!
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:19 am

OK, I am not liking this weird, ultra-sleek, retro-ish design that looks like it came off the cover of a 1932 Sci-Fi magazine.
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:56 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
OK, I am not liking this weird, ultra-sleek, retro-ish design that looks like it came off the cover of a 1932 Sci-Fi magazine.



Well you do drive a Toyota Prius.  
Quoting Flighty (Reply 28):
They forgot they are in the American car business. Americans love traditional American stuff when it is done right. The Chevy Camaro is a huge success. The Chrysler 300 is retro. Challenger? Mustang? Sellers and favorites.
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 15):
Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 4):
Not going to happen until the American people get serious and vote in people who understand the real oil business and ignore the tree huggers. Sorry, but that's the truth. Like it or not.

Again, you're preaching to the choir on that one.



Do keep in mind that when the 2002 Lincoln Continental concept was created, the Republicans had full control of the government. The White House, Senate and House of Representatives and nothing happened in terms of CAFE and this concept didn't go in to production when they supposedly had a friendlier allies in government.


A few things I'd change about this Continental.
Get rid of the center console all together.
Lose the console shift and place it on the drive column.
The styling of the front console should have been on the 2002 - 2005 Ford Thunderbird.
Those amenities in the rear console should be in a armrest that folds down from the rear seat.
I do love the straight across uncluttered instrument panel.
Glad this concept was/is an all new body-on-frame construction. Perhaps a convertible variant later on would be easy to assemble.
http://www.coolpicturesofcars.info/images/wmwallpapers/2002-Lincoln-Continental-Concept-i010-1.jpeg

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/02images/linc_cont3.jpg

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/02images/linc_cont7.jpg
Bring back the Concorde
 
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:23 am

Quoting falstaff (Reply 20):
Maybe the Town Car inspired that blob...

The blob was build on a Town Car chassis, when the car was being productionised they were going to change to an alloy spaceframe

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 23):
When was the Aston Martin Lagonda Vignale planned and designed?

The showcar was first shown in 1993, Aston Martin Works Servies actually built at least one for a customer in the middle east.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 27):
That is a beautiful car and looks to be what became the Jaguar S-Type.

It's an interesting car that almost made production, it's also a huge car, much larger than the S Type.
 
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:31 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 28):
The Lincolns and Cadillacs were American icons. Their styling was permanent. There are 10,000,000s of Americans who knew what these brands mean. And we liked them


I don't recall the number, but there are a large amount of people living in the USA that are not native born, they represent a very large segment of buying community. Those people probably don't have the family traditions and romantic feelings we feel about some of our cars. A recent imagrant from India probably doesn't share the nostalgic feelings for a Ford Mustang that a person who's family has lived in this country for generations. If US builders rely too much on their past to sell cars they are missing out on a growing segment in the US market.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 28):
Not everything should be retro. But classic design doesn't get old


That is very true, some cars are timeless.
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:16 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 28):
The Lincolns and Cadillacs were American icons. Their styling was permanent. There are 10,000,000s of Americans who knew what these brands mean. And we liked them.

I think that is part of the problem which nearly killed the US motor vehicle industry, building cars for only 1 market, you liked them but for them to be successful others have to like them as well, unfortunately for Lincoln and Cadillac the cars that they have been making for decades only appeal to the North American market, now if you could build something with wider appeal then maybe a Continential or Fleetwood could be made again and successfully.
 
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:02 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
OK so why is GM and Ford the big punching bag by the environmentalist?
I've never heard of them b-t-h and complain about the gas-guzzling German cars.
By the way, I don't "hate" German luxury cars, I'm just not excited about them like everyone else. It's not my style and I think they're a bit over-rated.

Never understood this, either. Different cars for different markets, but the Lincolns and Caddys are excellent cars, well-engineered and very reliable, in their own right. I am proud to drive an American car, built in Hamtramck, Michigan.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):

Not going to happen.
If we get a Republican Congress, all they're going to do is waste their time investigating Obama in the hopes of finding some dirt.

Well.

If they've learned anything at all, one hopes they'll spend less time worrying about the Executive Branch, and more time focusing on fixing what's wrong in the Legislative Branch. Spend less; trim excessive and burdensome regulation; get out of the way of progress. President Obama is loaded with dirt, not much need to "investigate" - and no point in so doing, either. Let he who is without sin cast the first stones and all that, not many successful politicians have clean history.
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:00 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 31):
I do love the straight across uncluttered instrument panel.

Wow, 'Fly - that concept Continental nterior is elegant and gorgeous. I want one! And I like the center console!!!
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exFATboy
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:48 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
That should be a Mercury.

Unfortunately, nothing will be a Mercury after this year. Shame, really.

I do wish Ford (or someone) would develop a large car to replace the Town Car, though - I have no idea what we're going to use to replace the Town Car for livery car service here in New York. No other car has the combination of expansive rear seat room and massive trunk as the Town Car. Lincoln is pushing the MKT to livery services, and while the MKT may be able to be fitted with rear seats with extra leg room, where's the boot that can hold three large suitcases and two sets of golf clubs like the Town Car can? I guess we'll all have to take mini-vans to the airport now...sigh.
 
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RE: Ford Ponders Reviving The "Continental" Brand

Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:17 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 34):
unfortunately for Lincoln and Cadillac the cars that they have been making for decades only appeal to the North American market,

Yes it is the old conflict, wrong concept or wrong execution. It was certainly bad execution in the 1980s. But I think the concept was good. Lincoln decided their DNA of brand was no good and proceeded to transform into first, a fake BMW maker, and now an appalling Ford rebodying company stuck in the 1990s (Lincoln Continental of that era, see resemblance to today's product). If the Germans owned Cadillac and BMW, they would style them as traditional brand examples, but with good engineering. What they did with Bentley is what Lincoln needs (on a cheaper level).

It isn't only elderly white people who enjoy classic Lincolns and Cadillacs. This was a total misconception. I'm under 30 and a fan of the classics. Most of the best classic Cadillacs and Lincolns I see are driven by young people of diverse backgrounds who are are not necessarily native born Americans. Just yesterday I saw a father with a couple of young boys, rocking a pale yellow 1979 Coupe de Ville with beautiful paint. They were not elderly or white. Hello, low rider and dub cultures.

I would also imagine that if we catered to the best in American design (which was some of the best worldwide), it could have an overseas market. But, this is hypothetical. American companies are only beginning to be cleansed of the type of management that isn't focused on product (i.e., the Apple model). It will take many years for MBA curriculum to be rewritten, or abolished. Then maybe public companies can be run instinctively, trying to deliver beauty and pleasure rather than a quarterly accounting shenanigan that ultimately results in bankruptcy a few years later.

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