zrs70
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Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:07 am

What parts, if any, of the Bible do you see as history? What do you see as allegory?
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ajd1992
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:56 am

I see all of it as untrue.

I'm not one to knock what people believe in, but I personally don't.
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:23 am

Some of the less "mythical" aspects probably occurred and got twisted and expanded over time, (as all good stories do). The character of JC was probably loosely based on a real person, and the church saw an opportunity to write a bit of propaganda

So yes, there are probably some bits based on fact. However, the overall premise....complete hogwash
 
gosimeon
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:28 am

I'm sure Jesus existed, but the Biblical accounts of his life do not qualify as historical fast - that's why you need "faith" I guess.

Do I think water separated, water transformed to wine, a snake talked and the Earth was made in a week? No.

People are entitled to believe that sort of thing if they want, though it seems like a compilation of local myths and legends to me.
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:33 am

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 1):
I see all of it as untrue.

Me too.

The old testament is the belief of a bronce age tribe and the new testament is the belief of (one of hundreds) cults from this bronce age tribe, written hundred years after the events around the founder of this cult, representing only the interpretations of the writers, about these events.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”
(Seneca, the Younger)

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ipodguy7
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:47 am

I believe in 100% of the Bible.
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aerdingus
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:56 am

I try really hard not to, because I see it as hearsay. Of course I went to a school that was practically run by the church, when Ireland was pretty much a religious state, and it's kinda scary how much it gets inside your brain, even when you are 6 years old, and makes you kind of brainwashed. I'm kind of trying to undo it all now, and just believe in sense. But I still get a bit scared that God will strike me down for disbelieving. Catholic guilt eh?
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Quokka
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:20 am

Which bible? There are so many to choose from, and each puts its 'translator's" own interpretations on things. For example, King James Authorised Version has in the Ten Commandments, "Thou shalt not kill."

This seems pretty straight forward: thou shalt not kill means thou shalt not kill. Ah, but there's the problem. How can you justify pressing people into an army and ordering them to slaughter people? Why, you rewrite the bible and it becomes, "Thou shalt do no murder." Killing is killing, but murder is a judicial construct that allows for killing that is lawful and that which not lawful is murder.

A lot of people pick and choose which bits to keep and which to throw away. Some will emphasize the Old Testament, other will ignore it.These days it seems that even the Anglican Church doesn't necessarily "believe in the bible".
Me, I recognise that the bible isn't "The Bible", but a collection of manuscripts written at different times, adding some extra texts and excluding others (apocrypha, pseudepigrapha and Deuterocanonical books). It is part history, part an elaboration of a legal and/ or moral code, part fiction.
 
GST
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:44 am

I think the writers of the books themselves were mostly good people themselves, but who were by and large documenting events they hadn't witnessed, and hence like fisherman's tales went from "the fish was this big" to "the fish was This big" to "the fish was THIS big", before reaching the ears of those who would immortalise them. As such I think many if not most of the stories have an element of truth, but should not of themselves be considered truth.

I think the compilers of the bible as we see it now were doing so for entirely political reasons, editing at will, and reducing the integrity of the stories yet further.
 
Severnaya
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:09 am

Quoting zrs70 (Thread starter):
Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?  

I believe in all of the Bible.
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gosimeon
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:41 am

Quoting ipodguy7 (Reply 5):
I believe in 100% of the Bible.
Quoting Severnaya (Reply 9):
I believe in all of the Bible.

Not trying to know your faith or anything here guys, but I am always confused when people say things like this. If you totally believe in the Bible, how do you feel about/justify scripture like:

-Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)
-Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)
-People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)
-If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)
-If anyone, even your own family suggests worshipping another God, kill them. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)
-Talking snakes, light before the sun, the Earth being flat etc...

Once again, this isn't meant as an insult, but I would appreciate if "Bible believing" Christians could offer some insight into whether they believe and accept these verses and many others like them...
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:41 am

I don't believe in barely anything of the Bible.
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tz757300
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:48 am

The only things I believe in are the moralistic values stemming from the book. I do think many of them are pretty key to maintain a somewhat sane society. Example being, If everyone was able to kill everyone, then society wouldn't exist right now.
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gosimeon
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:53 am

Quoting tz757300 (Reply 12):
The only things I believe in are the moralistic values stemming from the book. I do think many of them are pretty key to maintain a somewhat sane society. Example being, If everyone was able to kill everyone, then society wouldn't exist right now.

But are those values really given down to us from Religious scripture? I mean, some societies in Europe today are full of atheists and there are no mass killings going in. Some Eastern religions rely very little on handed-down scripture and they are probably the most peaceful religions.
 
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:15 pm

Quoting gosimeon (Reply 13):

But are those values really given down to us from Religious scripture?

Well, perhaps not, but I do feel it has a influence on societies due to the widespread following of the bible (and its variants).
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photopilot
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:19 pm

I absolutely believe that 100% of the bible(s) are false!

But I do believe that Dorothy followed the Yellow Brick Road and met the Wizard!  
 
Severnaya
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:14 pm

Quoting gosimeon (Reply 10):
If you totally believe in the Bible, how do you feel about/justify scripture like:

How I feel about some versus, well you're quoting some rather 'cruel' versus, that indeed can be read as offensive to people. However, I read the Bible completely (from the book of Genesis till the book of Revelation), and your quoted texts are only 1 side of the coin. You've to keep in mind that these 'punishments' were given to the Jewish people when it was a very primitive time, and they were living amidst the surrounding tribes which sacrificed children among other things. God did not want His people to follow them and created harsh punishments for those doing those things.

For me, being a Christian i'm not only bound to the first 5 Books of the Bible but have thank God about 60 more. The Levite sacrificial system is for me abandoned by Christ's sacrifice. For me it's great that Jesus came to Earth, where He was ultimately crucified and I believe He was risen from death also for me. He fulfilled the Torah by showing what it means to love God and the people (Mark 12:30-31). He showed love by conquering death as an innocent and thus enabling for people to have eternal life. (John 3:16). This however does not mean that the Thora can be removed from Bible but Christ showed its true meaning of the Thora by explaining parts, see for example 1 John 3:16(love and life), Ephesians 4:28 (stealing and working), Ephesians 5:25 (adultery).

As an example:

Quoting gosimeon (Reply 10):
-Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)

And again, read further in the Bible where in John 8:7 is written "They kept on asking Jesus about the woman. Finally, he stood up and said, “If any of you have never sinned, then go ahead and throw the first stone at her!”.

[Edited 2010-10-09 07:15:15]
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gosimeon
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:37 pm

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 16):
God did not want His people to follow them and created harsh punishments for those doing those things

Then, in fairness, why did he make people sacrifice their children? Why did he kill all the pregnant women and new born children in the Bible? For example:

"The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords." (Hosea 13:16 NLT)

Do you really think the God you know did that? If not, does that not mean you do not fully trust the Bible?

I just don't understand how you can read all that and think the Bible is an accurate reflection of any god. I have pretty much read the whole book, and some parts of it (especially the older parts) are plain sick in my opinion. The NT is mostly nice, to give it credit.  

Once again, hope you don't take this as an affront to your faith. I totally respect people of all faiths and none for their beliefs. I just don't get it when people say they fully believe everything in the Bible.

EDIT

Just thinking, this will go on and on like all other threads of this kind, so I guess I will leave the topic be and agree to disagree with you. I would hate to be insulting to anyone's faith, so I will leave it be.

[Edited 2010-10-09 07:43:55]
 
rlwynn
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:46 pm

None.







.
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AF1624
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:52 pm

My point of view on religion is somewhat Bill Maher-esque so I'll leave it at that.
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babybus
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:34 pm

Quoting ipodguy7 (Reply 5):
I believe in 100% of the Bible.
Quoting Severnaya (Reply 9):
I believe in all of the Bible.

Same here. The Old Testament is filled with hate and loathing but the New Testament is all love and Jesus.

We know that something remarkable happened because it is written in those books. The fact that we can't get our heads round those events is our own problem and something that keeps us pleasantly occupied.

It's a great read.
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GIANCAVIA
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:47 pm

Chalk me up with the non believing section.

I can sit here for the next 4 or 5 days and write a book full of contradiction that makes no sense too...
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:51 pm

Quoting Quokka (Reply 7):
This seems pretty straight forward: thou shalt not kill means thou shalt not kill. Ah, but there's the problem. How can you justify pressing people into an army and ordering them to slaughter people? Why, you rewrite the bible and it becomes, "Thou shalt do no murder." Killing is killing, but murder is a judicial construct that allows for killing that is lawful and that which not lawful is murder.

A lot of people pick and choose which bits to keep and which to throw away. Some will emphasize the Old Testament, other will ignore it.These days it seems that even the Anglican Church doesn't necessarily "believe in the bible".
Me, I recognise that the bible isn't "The Bible", but a collection of manuscripts written at different times, adding some extra texts and excluding others (apocrypha, pseudepigrapha and Deuterocanonical books). It is part history, part an elaboration of a legal and/ or moral code, part fiction.

You have summarized my feelings about the texts known as "The Bible".
It all came from oral tradition and transmission and many changes have occurred to the said texts until there was printing and the Gutemberg Bible.
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474218
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:02 pm

For the non-believers my I suggest: "The Bible As History" by Werner Keller.

The things that can be proven far out number the things those that cannot!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:19 pm

The names of some places are probably true. I mean, it does name the Euphrates river.

That's about it, though. None of the events described in the Bible have stood up to Historical investigation.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:20 pm

It is more a matter of understanding and interpreting than believing. Believing can be totally blind and done with no understanding or very little of it through fear that one will go to hell or other such means.

How some christians interpret the "Bible" is beyond my understanding. There are countries where Presidents are sworn on the Bible and then they go to war and thousands of innocents get killed because of these wars which is contrary to one of the fundamental teachings of the christian religions " thou shalt not kill" which they transform into "thou shalt not murder".

I don't see any recount in the "new testament" of Jesus recommending people to eat meat (killing earth creatures for food) there is only telling about fish all along the four texts.
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David L
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:22 pm

For the record, I suspect a lot of it was based on what some people of the time really believed. However, I have no reason to believe that the contributors had any more understanding of the Mysteries of the Universe than those who wrote about sun gods, sky gods, sea gods, mountain gods, dragons, witches, ancient medicine, geocentric astronomy, astrology, fortune telling, etc.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 23):
For the non-believers my I suggest: "The Bible As History" by Werner Keller.

The things that can be proven far out number the things those that cannot!

OK but, of those things that can be proven, how many relate to the existence of God, God "speaking" to certain people, the fact that Jesus was God's son or that any of the "miracles" happened as described (i.e. the relevant things), for example?  
 
474218
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:45 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):
None of the events described in the Bible have stood up to Historical investigation.


I take it you haven't yet and properly have no plans to read the book I suggested?

Quoting David L (Reply 26):
OK but, of those things that can be proven, how many relate to the existence of God, God "speaking" to certain people, the fact that Jesus was God's son or that any of the "miracles" happened as described (i.e. the relevant things), for example?


Since there were few audio and video recorders around during those times, the only thing you can go on is eye witness accounts? Can eye witness accounts be wrong; certainly. Can I witness accounts be exaggerated; most definitely. Did the events described happen or not happen; no way to prove or dis-prove.
 
GIANCAVIA
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:53 pm

Dont have to dissprove. It has to be proven. I can say i just sat here and spoke to 8 aliens for the last 20 mins. Doesnt make my claim real .. coz i cant prove it. People seem to think because faith or their belief is involved it isnt as ludacris as the alien scenario but it is. Religion is Believing in something imaginary.

Until "god" pops up and shows me he is real thats the end of the fantasy from my personal view point.

[Edited 2010-10-09 10:54:33]
 
David L
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:00 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 27):
Can eye witness accounts be wrong; certainly. Can I witness accounts be exaggerated; most definitely. Did the events described happen or not happen; no way to prove or dis-prove.

Hmm... it doesn't sound quite as promising now. Sorry.  

What I'm looking for are reasons to believe they did happen.
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:29 pm

I believe that it, the Bible, is the word of God. Since I believe in God, and that the Bible is His word, then I guess it stands to reason that I believe what is written in it.
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474218
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:40 pm

Quoting David L (Reply 29):
What I'm looking for are reasons to believe they did happen.


Since you are looking your half way there, unlike people that refuse to even look, yet say they don't believe.

Do I believe everything that is written in the Bible, no somethings are really hard to believe. But I do believe the people that wrote the Bible, did believe those things.
 
NAV20
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:42 pm

I see the Bible as an 'anthology,' written by many (at least a hundred) different people. It's a collection of writings, some of which are exact reporting, some fanciful 'reconstructions,' a small proportion just plain 'misrepresentation.'

As far as 'exact reporting' is concerned, my 'favourite' passage is this one. How Moses 'decided' to leave Egypt - one jump ahead of a murder charge:-

"2:11 And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.

2:12 And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.

2:13 And when he went out the second day, behold, two men of the Hebrews strove together: and he said to him that did the wrong, Wherefore smitest thou thy fellow?

2:14 And he said, Who made thee a prince and a judge over us? intendest thou to kill me, as thou killedst the Egyptian? And Moses feared, and said, Surely this thing is known.

2:15 Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh, and dwelt in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well."


As to 'fanciful' stuff, this is an excellent example, to my mind:-

"14:15 And the LORD said unto Moses, Wherefore criest thou unto me? speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward:

14:16 But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea.

14:17 And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honour upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.

14:18 And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I have gotten me honour upon Pharaoh, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.

14:19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:

14:20 And it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness to them, but it gave light by night to these: so that the one came not near the other all the night.

14:21 And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided.

14:22 And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.

14:23 And the Egyptians pursued, and went in after them to the midst of the sea, even all Pharaoh's horses, his chariots, and his horsemen.

14:24 And it came to pass, that in the morning watch the LORD looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud, and troubled the host of the Egyptians,

14:25 And took off their chariot wheels, that they drave them heavily: so that the Egyptians said, Let us flee from the face of Israel; for the LORD fighteth for them against the Egyptians.

14:26 And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand over the sea, that the waters may come again upon the Egyptians, upon their chariots, and upon their horsemen.

14:27 And Moses stretched forth his hand over the sea, and the sea returned to his strength when the morning appeared; and the Egyptians fled against it; and the LORD overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea.

14:28 And the waters returned, and covered the chariots, and the horsemen, and all the host of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them; there remained not so much as one of them.

14:29 But the children of Israel walked upon dry land in the midst of the sea; and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.

14:30 Thus the LORD saved Israel that day out of the hand of the Egyptians; and Israel saw the Egyptians dead upon the sea shore."


Arguably, pretty clear what happened. The Mediterranean has no tides worth mentioning. The Red Sea does - up to six feet, depending on the time of year. Moses, after fleeing Egypt one jump ahead of a murder charge, had lived in Midian for years; so he knew all about tides.

The Israelites didn't - so they credited Moses with a miracle.

The Egyptians didn't either. So the poor sods drowned..........

http://www.genesis.net.au/~bible/kjv/
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David L
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:01 pm

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 30):
I believe that it, the Bible, is the word of God.

But wasn't it written by mere human beings? And why aren't tales of dragons "the Word of the Dragon" or tales of Zeus, Apollo. etc., "the Word of the Various Gods"? And why is the Bible more valid than the Torah or the Koran, etc.?

Furthermore, can anyone who believes "100% of the Bible" or that it's "the Word of God" explain the points raised by Gosimeon here:

Quoting gosimeon (Reply 10):

I'm really not trying to cause offence - I'm genuinely curious.  
Quoting 474218 (Reply 27):
the only thing you can go on is eye witness accounts

I forgot to ask how many eye-witness accounts there were of God creating the Earth, for example, or how many contributors actually had access to eye-witnesses?  
Quoting 474218 (Reply 31):
Since you are looking your half way there, unlike people that refuse to even look, yet say they don't believe.

As an atheist who just doesn't understand why people continue to believe, I do enjoy these discussions as long as they remain civil and, believe me, I've seen both sides display less than "Christian" attitudes in previous discussions on the matter.  
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:11 pm

I believe the Bible to be 100% true.

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 1):
I see all of it as untrue.

Wow that is a strong statement.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 15):
I absolutely believe that 100% of the bible(s) are false!

Just like above...strong statement. Do you not believe in a King Herod? Do you not believe that there was a group called the Jews, Egyptians, Romans? Watch what you say   There is no way the Bible can be 100% false.
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GIANCAVIA
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:18 pm

Quoting David L (Reply 33):
As an atheist who just doesn't understand why people continue to believe,

With you I find it baffeling However I can see why certain groups would choose to believe more then others. For example old or sick people whos lives are coming to an end and want to believe there must be something safe or better that they are going onto next. etc etc

I dont care what ppl believe .. I cant explain life so i dont begrudge people their beliefs but I do like stuff to make sense for the most part and for me religion never does.
 
David L
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:19 pm

[quote=QXatFAT,reply=34]

"100% true", "100% false" - both "very strong statements". In my opinion, the chances of either being right are slim to nil.
 
Powerslide
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:31 pm

None. I have bigger things to worry and care about in my life than some fictional fairy tale written, and re-written by human beings. If believing in a higher being makes people happier then good for them. There are so many things wrong with organized religion in this world that it limits the advancement of the human race, but that is for another discussion.
 
David L
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:31 pm

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 35):
However I can see why certain groups would choose to believe more then others. For example old or sick people whos lives are coming to an end and want to believe there must be something safe or better that they are going onto next. etc etc

   I can also see how people would want an explanation for Life, the Universe and Everything, why we're here, why there are eclipses, floods, earthquakes and famine, etc., and how some individuals, who knew nothing of physics, chemistry, geology, astronomy, etc., would "have a stab at it" rather than admitting that they "dunno".  
 
PSA53
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bi

Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:50 pm

About 65% of it.I won't say most because there is a lot mankind misinterpretations,political perspectives and society attitudes of whatever times involved.

But there is a another question that should go with this.How many of you are below the age of 30 or 40 in which God and religion wasn't even weighted.I was a kid and young adult in which religion was never a factor. I was invincible!

[Edited 2010-10-09 13:48:15]
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AustinAllison
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:14 pm

To say that EVERYTHING in the bible is false is absolutely crazy, and likewise, to say that everything is true is crazy. I'm not a Christian, but some stuff in the bible can be backed by historical evidence.
 
Springbok747
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:52 pm

Quoting Powerslide (Reply 37):
None. I have bigger things to worry and care about in my life than some fictional fairy tale written, and re-written by human beings.

  

I don't believe in organized religion..so don't believe in any religious book actually...
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:57 pm

Quoting AustinAllison (Reply 40):


To say that EVERYTHING in the bible is false is absolutely crazy, and likewise, to say that everything is true is crazy. I'm not a Christian, but some stuff in the bible can be backed by historical evidence.

Agreed, however, the few true parts to it are probably greatly dramatized. But its safe to say most geographical locations, rivers and what not are legitimate.

Quoting gosimeon (Reply 10):
but I would appreciate if "Bible believing" Christians could offer some insight into whether they believe and accept these verses and many others like them...

Simple:



 
Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 30):
I believe that it, the Bible, is the word of God. Since I believe in God, and that the Bible is His word, then I guess it stands to reason that I believe what is written in it.


  
 
photopilot
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:46 pm

Quoting David L (Reply 33):
And why is the Bible more valid than the Torah or the Koran, etc.?

And thus he tries to prove that one version of the word of god is more true than another version of the story of god, hensforth proving the falsehood of both.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 34):
Quoting photopilot (Reply 15):
I absolutely believe that 100% of the bible(s) are false!

Just like above...strong statement. Do you not believe in a King Herod? Do you not believe that there was a group called the Jews, Egyptians, Romans? Watch what you say There is no way the Bible can be 100% false.

Specious argument. The Wizard of Oz takes place in Kansas. Kansas is a real place in geography. Therefore the Wizard of Oz must also be true by your same logic.
Using that same logic, in Star Trek IV, The Voyage Home, they land a Romulan Bird of Prey in a park in San Fransico. San Fransico exists, therefore Romulan Birds of Prey exist.

Weaving of historical or actual settings into a story is a well worn writers ploy of making stories seem "real" or more believeable. No reason to think the storytellers who wrote various parts of the bible didn't do the same. Doesn't make the book itself true in any way.
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:10 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 43):
Specious argument.

Sorry but the examples you give are extreamly bad. The two examples you give are movies that DO NOT claim to be true or the truth. The Bible claims to be true and historical. You are compairing two things that are far from each other. I am ready for another one you might through out.

Quoting David L (Reply 36):

I think that claiming the Bible to be 100% false it to take history and throw it out the window. Complete ignorance goes into believing it to be 100% false.
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zrs70
Topic Author
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:19 pm

Quoting babybus (Reply 20):
Same here. The Old Testament is filled with hate and loathing but the New Testament is all love and Jesus.

Harsh statement about the "Old" Testament (The Hebrew Bible). Sure there are passages that are difficult. But there are also passages of incredible light and goodness. Hillel taught that the core of Torah is to not be hateful to our neighbor. Hardly a statement of loathing!
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ajd1992
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:31 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 34):
Wow that is a strong statement.

I have my own reasons as I'm sure you do - It's how I was brought up. I honestly do not see the truth in anything that's written in the bible but that is not to say I don't tolerate those who do. I don't care what people believe in, as long as they don't force it on me.

I've met more than my fair share of Christian nutjobs in my 18 years on this earth and I'm sure I'll meet many more - I have no time for them and they are the ones who have definitely told me that common sense prevails over what they are pushing on me. I know 99% of people are not like that who believe in the bible, but it still puts me off.

I was never a believer, until a "friend" of mine told me that my own mother dying (I was 8 at the time, and I reckon I was around 14 or 15 when he said this) was punishment by God for being bisexual and for being a sinner. That is when I knew that religion in any form was a bad idea and I have not spoken to him since.
 
photopilot
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:34 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 44):
Sorry but the examples you give are extreamly bad. The two examples you give are movies that DO NOT claim to be true or the truth. The Bible claims to be true and historical.

So let's see, you want me to find a false story that CLAIMS to be true, to allegorically show that the false story that you claim to be true is in fact false, because you don't like my prior examples.

Ya ok, anything you say!
 
NAV20
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:45 am

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 45):
Harsh statement about the "Old" Testament (The Hebrew Bible). Sure there are passages that are difficult. But there are also passages of incredible light and goodness.

Agreed - although the former do rather tend to outnumber the latter.

I'm surprised that few people so far have mentioned the New Testament. The primary Christian belief is that God saw the world heading off in the wrong direction and sent his son to teach faith, hope, charity, and 'love thy neighbour as thyself,' in order to get religion 'back on the right track.' The same belief is incorporated into the Muslim faith - except that Christ was considered to have been a prophet, not the son of God. On the other hand, as far as I know, the whole of the New Testament is rejected by the Jewish faith.

Personally I find the Old Testament extremely obscure and full of contradictions. Much of it was clearly written a thousand years or more after the events and teachings it describes; that's inevitable really, since most of those happened long before paper, pens, and ink were invented. It's difficult to believe that the Israelites dragged loads of stone tablets around the Sinai desert, and stayed up late at night chipping away at accounts of 'what Moses said Abraham said God said'..........   So a lot of it, to my mind, has to be taken with a pinch of salt.

On the other hand, the New Testament seems to me to be largely a clear, factual account of Christ's life, beliefs, and teachings. I don't necessarily 'swallow' the whole of the NT either (especially some of St. Paul's stuff) but I'm very much a subscriber to "Le Pari de Pascal', 'Pascal's Wager.' Pascal advised a sort of 'each-way bet.' If Christ's teachings turned out to be correct you'd 'win' a place in heaven; if they didn't, you hadn't 'lost' much anyway, because you could still lead a pretty happy and fulfilling life while obeying Christ's teachings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
Quokka
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RE: Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?

Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:30 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 48):
On the other hand, the New Testament seems to me to be largely a clear, factual account of Christ's life, beliefs, and teachings.


The New Testament also has its contradictions. Not only do we see different genealogies for Jesus, but differing accounts of it.

What is significant however, is after Christ's death there were fierce debates of on a range of issues including circumcision and dietary requirements, particularly at the so-called meeting at Antioch. Paul adopted a broader view and basically said accept anyone who is prepared to believe in Christ should be accepted, while others thought differently. To be sure, he said a lot more and in a very opinionated fashion that sometimes saw him being run out of town with stones following him. In the "Bible" we are presented with some of the dispute in Acts and the Epistles, but there is continuing debate among Biblical scholars as to who was present, what was said and so on.

There are probably more books written about the "Bible" and there various debates surrounding its history and interpretation than any other. Today for the most part the debates are conducted in a civil, if sometimes passionate manner. That wasn't always the case.

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