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DocLightning
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The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:36 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101007/ap_on_el_se/us_nevada_senate_angle

Or is it?

Quote:
U.S. Senate candidate Sharron Angle told a crowd of supporters that the country needs to address a "militant terrorist situation" that has allowed Islamic religious law to take hold in some American cities.

Her comments came at a rally of tea party supporters in the Nevada resort town of Mesquite last week after the candidate was asked about Muslims angling to take over the country, and marked the latest of several controversial remarks by the Nevada Republican.

Glad it was finally said at an "official" Tea Party event. Of course, they can always dodge this because no Tea Party event is ever "official" because technically, the Tea Party doesn't exist.

Time to own up.

Especially because no Sharia law is recognized or in force in the United States of America. She has compared anyone who opposes her to the Nazis.

I have a question, Ms. Angle: when you blame all of your problems on a given religious or ethnic group, who do you start to resemble?

I have an answer: One Mr. Adolf Hitler

Not a comparison I draw lightly, given the number of Survivors in my family.

[Edited 2010-10-09 11:43:12]
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dxing
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:08 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):

I have a question, Ms. Angle: when you blame all of your problems on a given religious or ethnic group, who do you start to resemble?

I have a question for you, where exactly is she blaming all her, or our. problems on a given religious or ethinic group? Should I begin to list the off the wall statements that Senator Reid has made? How about starting with "The war is lost"? Nice way to support the troops there Senator. Need some more? Does that mean that everyone in the DNC is a defeatist?
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:29 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
I have an answer: One Mr. Adolf Hitler

Not a comparison I draw lightly,

Reductio ad Hitlerum at its finest.
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:09 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
I have an answer: One Mr. Adolf Hitler

Not a comparison I draw lightly, given the number of Survivors in my family.

Get out of town. You throw your Jewishness around constantly. And as a fellow Jew, it's embarrassing... especially when you make such silly statements.

Ms. Angle is akin to Hitler? Uhh, no. You belittle the very survivors you shamelessly pimp for your political ax grinding. More importantly, you sport the same blatant ignorance as Angle, by clearly failing to grasp our history, and how to make appropriate comparisons.

Just as she ought to apologize for saying such a dumb thing, you ought too as well. Shame on you.
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AustinAllison
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:10 pm

Islamic militant-ism needs to be addressed.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:31 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 1):

I have a question for you, where exactly is she blaming all her, or our. problems on a given religious or ethinic group? Should I begin to list the off the wall statements that Senator Reid has made? How about starting with "The war is lost"? Nice way to support the troops there Senator. Need some more? Does that mean that everyone in the DNC is a defeatist?

Did he blame the problems on one specific ethnic group?

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):

Ms. Angle is akin to Hitler? Uhh, no. You belittle the very survivors you shamelessly pimp for your political ax grinding.

Is she akin to Hitler? No. But she invents a fiction that these horrible Muslims are going to force their way of life on all of us and that we "Real Americans" need to fight back. Actually, there is no place in the USA where Sharia law is in force and there are no situations in which any Muslim group has tried to legislate it into place. So she incites hatred and fear against Muslims, who are doing nothing wrong, and uses it to try to get elected.

Hitler incited hatred and fear against Jews, who were doing nothing wrong, and used it to get elected.

I will say it again: if you start to speak out against a given ethnic or racial group, you have something in common with Adolf Hitler. I need hardly point out that Osama bin Laden falls into the same category.

And I will not apologize for saying so because it's a fact.
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IH8BY
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:33 pm

Quoting AustinAllison (Reply 4):
Islamic militant-ism needs to be addressed

I would agree that the issue needs to be addressed. However, I think that there are some in political groupings, not just in the US, who - inadvertently or conveniently, depending on the situation - portray Islam and militant Islamic groups as largely the same thing. I don't think this is helpful, whatever one's personal views about Islam happen to be, not least because it a) encourages prejudice against people who don't deserve it and b) imparts to militant Islamic groups an elevated status that they neither possess nor deserve.

From what I can see as an outsider, the Tea Party as a movement doesn't seem to be that interested in pushing an anti-Muslim message; however, that's not to say that some or many of its followers aren't, and I think it's worth watching how this progresses to measure its impact.

[Edited 2010-10-09 14:19:11]
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:48 pm

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
Get out of town. You throw your Jewishness around constantly. And as a fellow Jew, it's embarrassing... especially when you make such silly statements

Doc got to agree here.

Angle is a little out there and this statement she has made is totally insane. Still doesn't mean the TP is anti Islam. It's just what the left wing media wants everyone to believe so they don't get votes. It's getting old.
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:08 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 7):

Angle is a little out there and this statement she has made is totally insane. Still doesn't mean the TP is anti Islam.

Then what WOULD mean the TP is anti-Islam? A bunch of them cheering this statement?
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:16 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Hitler incited hatred and fear against Jews, who were doing nothing wrong, and used it to get elected.

See! You can't even get your own history straight, so how can you possibly be trusted to make appropriate comparisons?  
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
And I will not apologize for saying so because it's a fact.

No, it's not.

You throw that Hilter comparison around with such ease, and with such disregard for the real history our of people, it's sickening. I would have no problem with you speaking truth to power, when it comes to Sharon Angle. She's hardly the best replacement for Harry Reid. But... you completely undercut your credibility, when you belittle the political intercourse with your BS Hitler references!

“Americans should be able to disagree on the issues without coloring it with Nazi imagery and comparisons to Hitler. This is not where the debate should be at all.” - Abraham Foxman, ADL National Director and a Holocaust survivor

If you want to constantly remind us that you practice the Jewish faith, perhaps you ought to first embrace the history and true lessons of our suffering and injustices. That history, which you so poorly understand, is the essence of who are... it's not just another weapon for you to wield in your political bickering.

Want to go after Angle? Fine. But don't pervert your Jewish faith, by denigrating the significance of what Hitler meant, and did, to our ancestors.
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:22 pm

I think you'd find it hard to find a Tea Party that was predominantly anti-Muslim in some fashion. The right political force has increasingly used fear of Muslims as a political tool, especially in election years, since 9/11. The difference between now and then is the fact that it's done overtly. In the Bush years, you just slap a new terror warning or raise the threat level. It's becoming very disturbing however, that it's gotten so cruel.

Look, from what I can tell, most people here are intelligent and generally compose eloquent arguments, no matter what side you are on. The problem with "us" is that we forget that the majority of Americans in both parties are sheeple and are not as educated on issues.

That's all fine and dandy, except when your politicians play on that ignorance, which is exactly what right-winged politicians seem to be doing lately.

I have to agree with Doc partially by saying that what Angle did is the same tact that Hitler did leading up to his election. The majority of the extreme right are doing the same things. Causing large masses of people to hate the minority in order to win the election. While I will assume that 50% of these people do not have anti-Muslim sentiment, it's hard to justify that believe when they go and act like babbling and whooping monkeys when Angle says such things.

My faith in American people has really gone downhill. Sure they'll do anything for their own kind, (white, Christians or perhaps Jews, depending on where you are from), but when it comes to someone who seems different, well, don't count on it. Just look at those crowds. 98% white, 98% Christian.

Churches regularly teach anti-Islamic sentiment, and even anti-Jewish sentiment. Especially the evangelicals, which is where you find much of the Tea Party going to church.

Point of the matter is, if you can make someone hate someone on the other side, and make that side guilty by association, then you win votes.

So she is using a tactic of Hitler if you read your history, but Hitler wasn't the first or last to use that tactic. I don't think she is going to advocate extermination of Muslims though.

They say that if any argument goes on for long enough online, someone will invoke Hitler or the Nazis.

UAL
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:59 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Did he blame the problems on one specific ethnic group?

What "problems" does she blame on Muslims? She stated, according to the story you linked:

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Quote:
U.S. Senate candidate Sharron Angle told a crowd of supporters that the country needs to address a "militant terrorist situation" that has allowed Islamic religious law to take hold in some American cities.

Perhaps if you you had put up the entire quote....by why bother when its so much more inciting to quote just the racey part.

Angle responds that "we're talking about a militant terrorist situation, which I believe it isn't a widespread thing, but it is enough that we need to address, and we have been addressing it."

"My thoughts are these, first of all, Dearborn, Michigan, and Frankford, Texas are on American soil, and under constitutional law. Not Sharia law. And I don't know how that happened in the United States," she said. "It seems to me there is something fundamentally wrong with allowing a foreign system of law to even take hold in any municipality or government situation in our United States."


There is a first amendment case going foreward in Dearborn over Christian Arabs that wanted to distribute leaflets at a fair and were denied permission by the police, even though they had been able to do so freely in years past at the same fair. Meanwhile in the next town over the Muslim call to prayer is allowed to be broadcast over loudspeakers 5 times a day. That is what the man in the story is refering too. I have no idea what she is talking about in Frankford. All in all it is nothing more than an off the cuff, off the wall comment that all politicians, even the President (we've been to what, 57 States so far?) are prone to make.

http://michiganmessenger.com/39903/d...cused-of-violating-first-amendment

It would have been nice to hear her full statement since ABC's Sunday morning program last week featured a Mullah from London claiming that the flag of Islam will one day fly over the White House. Perhaps she was referencing that, without further detail we won't know. Or the comments made by the wife of the Mullah wanting to build the Mosque in lower Manhatten that Sharia law is compatiable with our Constitution. But again, she specifically addresss militant terrorists and if you have a problem with addressing that situation, then you have the problem.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 10):
I think you'd find it hard to find a Tea Party that was predominantly anti-Muslim in some fashion.

I would agree with this.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 10):
The right political force has increasingly used fear of Muslims as a political tool, especially in election years, since 9/11.

But not that. Please state your sources.

[Edited 2010-10-09 16:07:33]
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:07 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Glad it was finally said at an "official" Tea Party event. Of course, they can always dodge this because no Tea Party event is ever "official" because technically, the Tea Party doesn't exist.

Don't worry, I'm sure it was taken out of context.  
Quoting IH8BY (Reply 6):
I would agree that the issue needs to be addressed. However, I think that there are some in political groupings, not just in the US, who - inadvertently or conveniently, depending on the situation - portray Islam and militant Islamic groups as largely the same thing.

   For far too many people in this world, all extremists are muslim and all muslims are extremists. It really does show how little some of us truly know and understand about the world around us.
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:09 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 11):
Mullah from London claiming that the flag of Islam will one day fly over the White House

I hope to God that never happens....that Mullah sounds like he's drinking the kool-aid...
 
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:37 am

I don't see how people can keep painting the TP under a single brush stroke. It isn't even formally organized. Saying the TP is anti-Muslim/gay/whatever is like saying that liberals are all crackheads because I know a crackhead liberal. Don't believe everything you see on TV, and remember, the media only shows you what's interesting, not the normal, non-racist Tea Partiers

(not trying to call anyone out, or even this thread. there are many anti-____ threads out there)
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:53 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
Then what WOULD mean the TP is anti-Islam? A bunch of them cheering this statement?

No. She is a libertarian and is followed and cheered on by fellow libertarians. Still doesn't make the whole TP out to be Libertarian. No matter what you do people are not going to embrace Islam. I don't like many of the things they practice though I would never interfere with their right to practice it. Are they forcing it on us? Of course not but this woman is just trying to get votes and your playing the bigot card again.
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:58 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 12):
For far too many people in this world, all extremists are muslim and all muslims are extremists. It really does show how little some of us truly know and understand about the world around us.

   Absolutely spot on. There is a very good book written by Karen Armstrong, "The Battle for God" (Knopf, 2000), which really fingers the problem: it's not Muslim fundamentalism that's the problem, it's fundamentalism itself that is the problem: my way or the highway, in any religion.

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/a/armstrong-battle.html

http://www.christianethicstoday.com/...By%20Karen%20Armstrong_029_29_.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_for_God

Not only a penetrating look at fundamentalism in the three major monotheistic faiths, but it also provides readers with a thumbnail history of Islam and the Arab world, of which most Westerners are painfully ignorant.

Once you've read one of Ms Armstrong's books, you'll be hooked, she's a very authentic expert on religion. Was a nun, now teaches at a seminary, also writes I believe for Al Hayyat. Sort of covers the waterfront.
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:58 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 15):

No. She is a libertarian and is followed and cheered on by fellow libertarians

Hardly so bub. As a proud libertarian, I can say most of us don't give a damn who is what or where they're from - we're all equal before the law - that's what liberty is all about. She may be flying under that banner, but all she really presents herself as is an idiot.
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PSA727
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:42 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
I have a question, Ms. Angle: when you blame all of your problems on a given religious or ethnic group, who do you start to resemble?

I have an answer: One Mr. Adolf Hitler

Thanks. I needed a good laugh today, and you provided it shamelessly. So Sharron Angle is the next Adolf Hitler? Clever! You know, you really can't be effective in demonizing a group without some basis of truth or acceptance in it. Why do you think Obama is constantly bashing the Wall Street "fat cats", or better yet, GWB? Tell me, how much traction would you get if you tried to make the Amish the scapegoats for this stagnate economy? My guess would be none.

As for the muslims, can I send you the transcripts from the Times Square Bomber's statements in court after he was sentenced in court this past week? He mentioned something about Sharia Law and the war with muslims just beginning in America. Hmmm.... interesting. You know, there was a time in this country when muslins were just another benign group in this country that drew little attention. Even when a terrorist campaign started abroad (i.e. highjackings, public bombings, and so on) there was little interest in them as being an enemy. Did you see that after the Beruit bombing of U.S. troops? What about the bombing of a West Berlin disco where G.I.s frequented? How about Pan Am 103? Well things have changed, and so has the sentiment. Sharron Angle and the tea party members aren't the reason why I can't take liquids over 3 ounces on board an airliner, or why I am required to take my shoes off at the security checkpoint, are they?
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:47 pm

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 18):

Thanks. I needed a good laugh today, and you provided it shamelessly. So Sharron Angle is the next Adolf Hitler?

Yes, because "start to resemble" is semantically equivalent to "the next."

What other words would you put in my mouth?
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:26 pm

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 10):
They say that if any argument goes on for long enough online, someone will invoke Hitler or the Nazis.

And just like "Remember when..." is the lowest form of conversation, Doc's Hitler comparison is the lowest form of debate.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
Yes, because "start to resemble" is semantically equivalent to "the next."

There is no "resembling" what-so-ever. It was a lame comparison no matter how you cut it. And I don't think you needed to qualify the comparison with reminding us that you're Jewish... any person, of any religion, can make dumb comments, you don't need to be Jewish to say such things! In fact, I'm sure a lot of Jews would prefer you not link us to your wacky comments!
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:34 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
Yes, because "start to resemble" is semantically equivalent to "the next."

What other words would you put in my mouth?

Cool move there - avoiding the rest of the post.

I'd like to see some reaction to the other stuff he said - but thats just me.
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:42 am

Of course hard core Muslims are such open minded people and the tea Party isn't
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:00 am

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 21):

Cool move there - avoiding the rest of the post.

The first part told me that I didn't need to finish.

Quoting charlienorth (Reply 22):
Of course hard core Muslims are such open minded people and the tea Party isn't

I don't think anyone is arguing that we should be welcome Islamic fundamentalists into our country. Unfortunately, our Constitution gives anyone, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Zoroastrian, Hindu, or Bhuddist the right to hold fundamentalist beliefs. I honestly think that if the founding fathers had known of the dangers of religious fundamentalism, they might have worded the First Amendment differently.
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PSA727
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:32 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23):
I don't think anyone is arguing that we should be welcome Islamic fundamentalists into our country. Unfortunately, our Constitution gives anyone, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Zoroastrian, Hindu, or Bhuddist the right to hold fundamentalist beliefs. I honestly think that if the founding fathers had known of the dangers of religious fundamentalism, they might have worded the First Amendment differently.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't care if someone has fundamentalist religious views (regardless of the religion). I do have a problem with people who elevate that fundamentalism to the extreme where it becomes "OK" to murder thousands of people in the process. And right now, there's only one group from a certain religion who seems to be doing that right now against Americans. And I think that Hitler would feel the same way, too. Or so I've heard. But that's just a rumor I heard from a F/A on a flight from Dulles the other day.
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:35 am

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 24):

I can only speak for myself, but I don't care if someone has fundamentalist religious views (regardless of the religion). I do have a problem with people who elevate that fundamentalism to the extreme where it becomes "OK" to murder thousands of people in the process.

But it's a very short trip. If the Holy Text MUST be true, then anything contrary to the Holy Text must be destroyed.

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 24):
And right now, there's only one group from a certain religion who seems to be doing that right now against Americans.

Yes, this decade that seems to be the case. Last decade, it was Christian fundamentalist groups blowing up buildings.

Fundamentalism, regardless of the religion, is dangerous.
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:41 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 25):
Yes, this decade that seems to be the case. Last decade, it was Christian fundamentalist groups blowing up buildings

I think I need to buy a new Thesaurus because it doesn't list "buildings" when I looked up the word "people".
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:46 am

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 21):
Of course hard core Muslims are such open minded people

Honor killings.

Making women cover up, arranging their marriages, don't let them drive or vote and beat them or kill them if they practice western values or stone them if they cheat on their husband?

Yea that is real open minded.   
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:13 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 9):
If you want to constantly remind us that you practice the Jewish faith

Actually, he's Jewish but I'm pretty sure he is an Athiest and so he doesn't practice any faith.
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:11 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23):
I honestly think that if the founding fathers had known of the dangers of religious fundamentalism, they might have worded the First Amendment differently.

I suspect that they knew about those dangers well enough. They remembered that many settlers had come to the American colonies to escape persecution. They were alive at a time when many countries had laws imposing penalties on those who did not practice the approved faith and a time when the Inquisition was still in force.

The irony is that they were fundamentalists themselves: not fundamentalists in the religious sense but in the sense of setting out what they believed was the basis of a just and democratic society. Their opponents described them as terrorists when they took up arms to fight for what they believed in.
 
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:16 am

Quoting Quokka (Reply 29):
They remembered that many settlers had come to the American colonies to escape persecution.

That's one way to look at it, but it's not so simple.

The Puritans who came to the America were religious extremists. The British were more than happy to get rid of the nutjobs.

And with good reason. These folks were responsible for the Salem Witch Trials.

The people who wrote the Constitution did not come here on the Mayflower or have anything to do with them.
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:32 am

I think one of the fears as to 'Sharia Law' and some 'Tea Party' supporters, is the possible situations of recognizing certain areas of Islamic culture and belief that may have to be recognized by local, state and Federal laws due to our Constitutional recognition of Freedom of Religion. For example, in the state of New York, if an Orthodox Jewish woman is seeking a state court divorce, they will have to file an affidavit that a religious 'get' had been given by the husband and acknowledged by a local rabbi when the marriage has been preformed by a Rabbi. It is not uncommon for the husband to give the 'get' (ie: get out of the house, you are no longer my spouse) and this regulation may make it near impossible for a woman to get a divorce. Then their is the legal protections of Islamic Halal food inspections, holy days like the first and last days of Ramadan where schools, government agencies and businesses have to legally recognize as to their employees taking off work for their Holy days, further acknowledging the Islamic faith and their 'Sharia Law' in the Koran. You have had challenges as to right of Islamic woman to wear the burka, even for official photographs for Passports or a state issued Drivers License.

What has happened is that as our laws need to adjust to the reality to significant numbers of persons of the Islamic faith populate our country but the 'Tea Party' types don't want to compromise so use the worst, most fear mongering, prejudicial and extreme views of the Islamic faith to get the vote of the ignorant or easily swayed. I hope the media would show these 'Tea Party' types are cartoon fools and not to be respected for being voted into office.
 
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:37 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
The people who wrote the Constitution did not come here on the Mayflower or have anything to do with them.

Absolutely. It would have been extremely difficult for a passenger on board a ship in 1620 to pen an Amendment to a Constitution submitted to the states for ratification in 1789.
Those people were no doubt aware of the history of religious persecution and the potential effects of zealotry. They were also influenced by the ideas that were sweeping Europe at the time, ideas that came into sharp conflict during the French Revolution in the same year.
But as you say;

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
it's not so simple
 
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:18 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 27):
Making women cover up, arranging their marriages, don't let them drive or vote and beat them or kill them if they practice western values or stone them if they cheat on their husband?

Arranged marriages and beatings of women are not peculiar to people with Muslim heritage. Many, many immigrant groups to both Canada and the USA have these issues, be they from south Asia, east Asia, or Europe. And in fact this is true unfortunately for many born here.

It's the men that are the problem, not the religion.
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OA412
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:34 am

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 18):
As for the muslims, can I send you the transcripts from the Times Square Bomber's statements in court after he was sentenced in court this past week? He mentioned something about Sharia Law and the war with muslims just beginning in America. Hmmm.... interesting.

And this is proof that Sharia law is going to be implemented in the US? Seriously?

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 18):
You know, there was a time in this country when muslins were just another benign group in this country

Guess what? They still are a benign group. To imply that all American Muslims are extremists is to fan the flames of religious hatred.

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 18):
Sharron Angle and the tea party members aren't the reason why I can't take liquids over 3 ounces on board an airliner, or why I am required to take my shoes off at the security checkpoint, are they?

No they're not, but then again, neither are American Muslims, unless you believe that all Muslims should be held responsible for the crimes of 16 men.
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:42 am

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 33):
be they from south Asia, east Asia, or Europe. And in fact this is true unfortunately for many born here.

No way, your telling me I can to Asia or Europe and see men beating women in the street like in the middle east? Ahhhhh NO.
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:45 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 31):
For example, in the state of New York, if an Orthodox Jewish woman is seeking a state court divorce, they will have to file an affidavit that a religious 'get' had been given by the husband and acknowledged by a local rabbi when the marriage has been preformed by a Rabbi. It is not uncommon for the husband to give the 'get' (ie: get out of the house, you are no longer my spouse) and this regulation may make it near impossible for a woman to get a divorce.

Just a cursory reading of this says that civil courts and State law trump this.

http://www.newhavenregister.com/arti...nion/doc4ca41ba517b30503569760.txt

In 1983, New York State passed the Get Law: Domestic Relations Law §253, which states that prior to a the court granting a civil divorce, both parties to the divorce will take all steps possible to remove any barriers to remarriage that the other party might encounter. This effectively means that in the State of New York, before a civil divorce is finalized, a Jewish husband must grant his wife a get. If you live New York State, be sure to talk to your civil lawyer and your rabbi about how to ensure that your husband gives you a get.

A further case showed that a Judge in Brooklyn ordered a man to pay $500 a week due his refusal to provide a Get to his wife.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 31):
holy days like the first and last days of Ramadan where schools, government agencies and businesses have to legally recognize as to their employees taking off work for their Holy days, further acknowledging the Islamic faith and their 'Sharia Law' in the Koran.

??
http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/16/smbusiness/ramadan.fsb/

(FSB Magazine) -- The Muslim holy month of Ramadan drew to a close last Friday when observers broke their fast on Eid-ul-Fitr, a three-day-long period of prayers and festivities. But while the Islamic world allows time off for the entirety of Eid and shortened work hours throughout Ramadan, the roughly120,000 Muslims here in the United States enjoy no government-sanctioned holiday time. This means small businesses have had to create their own makeshift policies.

Even in the Islamic world they still work.

That policy mimics what happens in much of the Islamic world: In Bahrain the law allows traditional 9-to-5 workers to quit after six hours; businesses in Kuwait open their doors later, at 10 a.m., and closer earlier, at 3 p.m.; Doha finishes its day at 2 p.m.; and Dubai lets its governmental sectors modify their work hours as they please.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 31):
You have had challenges as to right of Islamic woman to wear the burka, even for official photographs for Passports or a state issued Drivers License.

There are several States that allow for non photo drivers licenses, but a person still has to have a photo ID to show when required.

You'll have to base your argument that tea party members are ignorant hicks on something else.
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:52 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 35):
No way, your telling me I can to Asia or Europe and see men beating women in the street like in the middle east? Ahhhhh NO.

You can see men assaulting women in the street in many American cities and you really think you're not going to see it in parts of Asia and Europe?
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:13 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 37):
You can see men assaulting women in the street in many American cities and you really think you're not going to see it in parts of Asia and Europe?

Oh yea I see this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KzaEoQ8Vrw

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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:07 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 38):
Oh yea I see this


Not long ago someone posted a link to a video of French police beating and dragging a woman holding a child. Should we infer from this that all french men beat women? Yet that's exactly what you want us to believe by posting a video of a man beating a woman in Afghanistan, except you cast your net to include not only all Afghan men but all Muslim men.
I have similarly witnessed a man smash a glass into the face of a woman in the UK. Should I infer that smashing glasses into women's faces is a particularly British characteristic?
 
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:28 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23):
The first part told me that I didn't need to finish.

Thats bull, and you know it. You just cannot make an argument against what he said, pure and simple.

I usually respect your opinion, but a cop-out like that is low.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 27):
Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 21):
Of course hard core Muslims are such open minded people

Honor killings.

Making women cover up, arranging their marriages, don't let them drive or vote and beat them or kill them if they practice western values or stone them if they cheat on their husband?

Yea that is real open minded.

Not sure what happened there with the quote feature, but I never said that  
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:29 pm

I am not a big Tea Party supporter, but I am going to come out and say this...and I'm curious if anyone on the left has ever, ever, ever thought it:

If Harry Reid (or enter any Dem candidates name here) had not have been such a massive screw up during his years in Congress, Sharron Angle (enter any TP/Repub candidates name here) would not have a shot at the office, and this would all be a moot point...

Just my thoughts...
 
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:22 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 41):
Just my thoughts...

Absolutely spot on. I find it apalling the Dems are spinning the beating they are going to take in two weeks as some historical thing that always happnens in midterms when the simple fact is if Obama didn't go so far right and let Pelosi run the show they all would have nothing to worry about. Would have kept their control of congress and Obama would have sailed into a second term. People vote out officials for one reason and it's not some historical thing.
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RE: The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:45 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 34):
No they're not, but then again, neither are American Muslims, unless you believe that all Muslims should be held responsible for the crimes of 16 men.

Wow, 16 men. That's it. Well, it should be really easy to wrap up this problem. It's only 16 men causing all this mess.
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