avent
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Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:12 am

 
NIKV69
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:15 am

Yea this is pretty stupid. No matter what you are doing or re-enacting it's very bad taste and should not be done. Use your head.
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cpd
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:23 am

He is very lucky not to be in Germany, where that is illegal.
 
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:27 am

There are things that don't need re-enactment...
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WarRI1
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:28 am

I cannot even imagine anyone dressing as a Nazi. A Republican doing so is bizzare. I wonder what there is to admire about a Nazi Soldier? I never saw anything to inspire me. I have watched a ton of war films over the years, and I do not recall any humanitarian efforts by the Nazi Soldiers. I wonder what the Russians would say about them, the French, the Dutch, the Finns, Poles, the British etc. I am sure it would not be complimentary. I seem to remember a British Prince wearing the outfit, did not go over too well. Nice values to teach ones son also. Let us hear the spin from the "right"
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aloges
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:32 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
I have watched a ton of war films over the years, and I do not recall any humanitarian efforts by the Nazi Soldiers.

I hope you mean documentaries because "Saving Private Ryan" isn't a history lesson.
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WarRI1
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:34 am

Quoting aloges (Reply 5):
Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
I have watched a ton of war films over the years, and I do not recall any humanitarian efforts by the Nazi Soldiers.

I hope you mean documentaries because "Saving Private Ryan" isn't a history lesson.

Absolutely, war documentaries, I never confuse the two. I should have made that clear.
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cpd
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:35 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
I wonder what there is to admire about a Nazi Soldier?

I remember the actor Christian Berkel who played one of the conspirators (Colonel Albrecht Mertz von Quirnheim) in the recent movie Valkyrie explaning a bit about the uniform in particular, he noted that putting on the uniform (not the SS one, however), it lifts you - you walk different with head held higher, more proper, etc.

Not that he particularly admired those soldiers from those days, but it was an interesting interview.

[Edited 2010-10-11 20:37:54]
 
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:51 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 7):
I remember the actor Christian Berkel who played one of the conspirators (Colonel Albrecht Mertz von Quirnheim) in the recent movie Valkyrie explaning a bit about the uniform in particular, he noted that putting on the uniform (not the SS one, however), it lifts you - you walk different with head held higher, more proper, etc.

Not that he particularly admired those soldiers from those days, but it was an interesting interview.

I think that was part of the problem, the uniform. they were tought to think like Supermen., and they dressed the part. The SS Uniform was terrifying to see, imagine the poor people who saw it coming their way. Portraying regular German Soldiers would have been bad enough, to portray the Waffen SS was stupid. They were killers, not soldiers. If this is an example of this mans charactor, and judgement, then he is lacking something.
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kaitak
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:21 am

I know a guy who used to work with me, a few years back, who was into recreating the Napoleonic wars; he took it very seriously (he used to have us all laughing at the problems he used to have trying to get his musket through customs!) and was an expert; it was great fun and very interesting, but there is of course a HUGE difference between Napoleon and Hitler (well, apart from their abortive attempts to conquer Russia).

I think the key difference is that only someone who was totally ignorant of the extent of the SS's activities would even think of wearing such a uniform. It would be very interesting to find out about how much he knows about the SS, its tactics and its crimes; I wonder if he has ever heard of Malmedy?

And he's a tea party candidate. Why doesn't that surprise me!
 
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:38 am

Quoting kaitak (Reply 9):
I wonder if he has ever heard of Malmedy?

Quite obviously, either he did not, or he did not care about the real life exploits of these killers. I do believe he will know more about the Waffen SS before this is over then he ever wanted to. Rightfully so.
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Pyrex
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:01 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
I have watched a ton of war films over the years, and I do not recall any humanitarian efforts by the Nazi Soldiers

Oh well, that settles it then, if it wasn't in any war movies...

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
the Finns

You wonder what they would say to the German soldiers? Probably "thank you for helping defend us from a Russian invasion", maybe?

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
I seem to remember a British Prince wearing the outfit, did not go over too well.

Totally different situation. Halloween is not a historical re-enactement!

Seriously, people must be grasping at straws if this becomes a campaign issue. The guy is into history and likes to play make pretend battle. Guess what, if you are going to do a World War II re-enactement then someone has to play the other side, otherwise the battle gets a bit boring... You do realize it is make-believe, right? The guys wearing the nazi uniforms aren't really nazis, the same way the guys wearing the green uniforms aren't really U.S. WW2 GIs.

I can see it now, overly-sensitive liberals scouting out the location of the next re-enactements replacing the "good guys" blank cartridges with live ammo so they can teach the "bad guys" a lesson.
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:18 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 11):
Seriously, people must be grasping at straws if this becomes a campaign issue. The guy is into history and likes to play make pretend battle. Guess what, if you are going to do a World War II re-enactement then someone has to play the other side, otherwise the battle gets a bit boring... You do realize it is make-believe, right? The guys wearing the nazi uniforms aren't really nazis, the same way the guys wearing the green uniforms aren't really U.S. WW2 GIs.

I can see it now, overly-sensitive liberals scouting out the location of the next re-enactements replacing the "good guys" blank cartridges with live ammo so they can teach the "bad guys" a lesson.

The irony of pleading against over-reaction concerning a member of the teaparty which has pushed the birther nonsense and the theme that Obama is really a muslim or a manchurian candidate is not lost on some of us.
 
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:20 am

I think this is the the dumbest story, there is just nothing here. Many grew up playing cowboys and indians, or cops and robbers, and nowadays people think it is cool to be a "pimp". There are plenty of people who role play the Civil War, and both sides are proudly played, and its not because people who play as Confederate want to return to slave ownership but because it was a different time and this is one way people learn about it. They are not bad or evil people. Re-enacting as a Nazi is not the same as being a "skinhead" or a supremacist and wanting, war, racial superiority, and purity.

I had friends who used to "war game" and recreate the battles of WWII, acting as the Russians, the Germans, the Allies, all the actors of the war but their favorite was either Russian or German because the odds were longer. I used to play D&D where I was almost always a warrior and would slaughter people. Later in my teens I would play a role playing spy game where I was an assassin, I had a Russian, a Romanian, and mercenary. I killed people and enjoyed it. In the game.

Are all the actors that played German SS soldiers bad? Or how about the quiet honor that the Christian Russian Constable had in Fiddler on the Roof? That was a terrible thing to do to people. Shouldn't they have turned down the parts because to give any credence or honor to the part could be considered immoral or bad? Heck they are doing it for money, isn't that worse? Or are these people simply acting?

Now am I an evil person for the game-play I have done and do in my life? No. I knew what a terrible thing it was to kill people and to work to oppress people but it was just game play. We all know what the American Indians went through, the terrible deprivation, the forced marches, the death, yet we still played and have fond memories of our playing. I bet many people picked being a robber when playing cops and robbers because it was more fun to be the robber. I am trying to think of all the socially unacceptable things I have done in my "game play" but it is not wrong. To actually do the stuff, to believe that it is the way things should be be examples of a bad person but play acting or re-enactments are not a bad thing nor do they make someone a bad person.

This is much adieu about nothing. Where is Officer Barbrady when you need him?

Tugg
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:46 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 11):
Seriously, people must be grasping at straws if this becomes a campaign issue. The guy is into history and likes to play make pretend battle. Guess what, if you are going to do a World War II re-enactement then someone has to play the other side, otherwise the battle gets a bit boring... You do realize it is make-believe, right? The guys wearing the nazi uniforms aren't really nazis, the same way the guys wearing the green uniforms aren't really U.S. WW2 GIs.

Exactly.... I don't understand the whole uproar about this (other than the easy fact that it is a Republican). I may be completely wrong and I apologize if I just sound like a uniformed idiot, but I honestly don't see the big deal if he was taking place in a re-enactment. Nazi Germany was a massive part of WWII obviously.... There is no going around it if you want to do an actual re-enactment of WWII.

Just desperate people grasping at straws for political ground in my opinion... (keep that in mind).
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:32 am

Who cares?

It's a re-enactment and both sides can't be the allies.
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Zentraedi
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:45 am

Complete non-issue.

Quoting KPDX (Reply 14):
Just desperate people grasping at straws for political ground in my opinion... (keep that in mind).

That's exactly what it is.

What's really bizarre is that we even have avowed Republicans either condemning this or simply afraid to speak up about how dumb the attack was.
 
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:16 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 11):
Oh well, that settles it then, if it wasn't in any war movies...

Let's just ignore the part where he corrected himself and explained that he meant to say documentaries.  
Quoting Pyrex (Reply 11):
Seriously, people must be grasping at straws if this becomes a campaign issue. The guy is into history and likes to play make pretend battle. Guess what, if you are going to do a World War II re-enactement then someone has to play the other side, otherwise the battle gets a bit boring
Quoting KPDX (Reply 14):
I don't understand the whole uproar about this (other than the easy fact that it is a Republican)
Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 15):
It's a re-enactment and both sides can't be the allies.
Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 16):
That's exactly what it is.
What's really bizarre is that we even have avowed Republicans either condemning this or simply afraid to speak up about how dumb the attack was

Did any of you actually bother to read the article? Did you miss the part where the article mentions that Iott was a member of a group dedicated to "re-enacting the exploits of an actual Nazi division, the 5th SS Panzer Division Wiking". There's a difference between belonging to a World War II re-enactment group and one that is dedicated to re-enacting the war from the point of view of a Nazi division, and I assume that you are all well aware of that difference.
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:16 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 17):
There's a difference between belonging to a World War II re-enactment group and one that is dedicated to re-enacting the war from the point of view of a Nazi division, and I assume that you are all well aware of that difference.

Actually, I don't see the difference. He chooses to re-enact the role of the Nazis during his fun and games. So what? Are you saying that he's a Nazi or sympathetic to Nazism ecause of that?

What of our own Civil War re-enactment groups. Are those that choose, time and again, to play the Confederate side wanna-be slave owners?

This is a straw-grasping, non-event.

i can't wait until the "October surprise" is rolled out.
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:59 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 13):
nowadays people think it is cool to be a "pimp".

Well........   

Quoting tugger (Reply 13):
Re-enacting as a Nazi is not the same as being a "skinhead"

Well he is standing right next to one.




This is insane!
The more I read, the crazier the story became.
This lunatic shouldn't be anywhere near any elected office.
Sadly he may very well will in this conservative district.
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:47 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
I wonder what there is to admire about a Nazi Soldier?

A sign of things to come? Will the next Congress turn into Nazi US?...I'm serious.
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AGM100
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:30 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 20):
A sign of things to come? Will the next Congress turn into Nazi US?...I'm serious.



Yep ... that is our evil plan indeed !. The 4th Reich .....   

Its one guy .... one weird guy . According to story today he may have also been dressed as a British Tommy for another reenactment... does that mean he his .... whatever. Man the democrats are desperate ....
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avent
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:54 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 21):
Yep ... that is our evil plan indeed !. The 4th Reich .....

Its one guy .... one weird guy . According to story today he may have also been dressed as a British Tommy for another reenactment... does that mean he his .... whatever. Man the democrats are desperate ....

Ah. Thanks for clarifying it's all much ado about nothing.

Let me also contribute about more teapartiers who love a good uniform...

Here's a picture of J T Ready and Russel Pearce (who engineered the infamous SB1070 anti-illegal immigration law):



And here's another with J T Ready on the right end in a suit...







It's interesting their comfort zones overlap so much.


Good thing they wear patriotic colors so we can tell where they stand.




[Edited 2010-10-12 09:02:26]

[Edited 2010-10-12 09:03:43]
 
AGM100
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:08 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 22):
Ah. Thanks for clarifying it's all much ado about nothing.



Stop already .... we have been over this . The guy got a picture at a campaign stop somewhere ... big deal. JT Ready is a fool and we all know it. He speeks for no one ....

But if this is the best ya got then lay it .... good by Dems...
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avent
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:12 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 23):
Stop already .... we have been over this . The guy got a picture at a campaign stop somewhere ... big deal. JT Ready is a fool and we all know it. He speeks for no one ....

He speaks for no one? When his SB1070 bill got accepted and enjoys substantial support in AZ? Sorry, lad, but he is a main figure of the Teaparty in AZ. If that 'sticks in the craw' of teaparty defenders, too bad.
 
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:21 pm

I´m involved in 20th century living history / re-encatment myself (strictly Allied, we don´t do battle re-enactment, since we think we can´t do it without ridiculling those who really have been there, but do displays in cooperation with the Dutch and Belgian military museums) and have observed that there exist several types of Axis re-emactors. While the Wehrmacht re-enactors are normally down to earth guys, who do the German side out of genuine historcal interest and don´t deny the bad sides of their impressions, I´ve noticed that amng SS re-enactors there exist plenty who seem to like thiese uniforms a bit tgoo much for my taste and who seem to identify with the ideology behind it.
SS re-enactmen t is interestingly a very common thing in the UK, the US and even Russia and Poland (don´t ask me why).
Same as many Allied re-enactors want to do '"elite" impressions (this is why you see those ridiculous 200 lbs "Paratroopers", it seems that the guys like to go for those impressions, which fit them physically least, e.g. a guy who would better do an impression of a cookhouse sergeant does a SAS impression, where he should be young, lean and fit) or officers instead of doing what aboutt 80% of all soldiers were: Footslogger Private Tommy Tentpeg, Many Axis re-enactors go for the SS or Fallschirmjäger impressions.


Jan
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474218
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:27 pm

I wonder why the Huffington Post of The Atlantic Monthly did not bother the include Mr. Iott's explanation?

Iott said he has been involved in re-enactments on and off for roughly 35 years. He said he has dressed as an American soldier for World War I and World War II re-enactments, as well as a soldier from each side of the Civil War.
 
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:29 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 24):
When his SB1070 bill got accepted and enjoys substantial support in AZ? Sorry, lad, but he is a main figure of the Teaparty in AZ. If that 'sticks in the craw' of teaparty defenders, too bad.



Because were all Nazi's down here in Az .... you win.

I once built a ME-109 ( JG-51 Molders) and Eastern Front FW-190 A8 ( JG-54 green hearts ) and got pretty heavy into reading up on the Luftwaffe . It was interesting .... ? So ?

Honestly ... I would not vote for a war re-enactor anyway .. I always thought they were a little weird .
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avent
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:53 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 27):

Because were all Nazi's down here in Az .... you win.

No, I lose. Because we are drifting ever closer to fascism, it's you who can put a checkmark in the 'win' column.

But since you have given up pretending Pearce speaks for no one, I'll take a point for myself in that regard.
 
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:35 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 28):
But since you have given up pretending Pearce speaks for no one, I'll take a point for myself in that regard.



Pearce has denounced JT the wacko .... and Pearce is a elected official . I didn't say Pearce does not speak for no one ... I said JT does not .

Pearce is branded a extremist because he is head on with La Raza ,De Humanos and the Sandinista (like) movement .... I support him 100% in that effort. La Raza wants to make him into a Nazi ...of course , and you are chomping down on the bait.

Funny , Derochos De Humanos changed there logo from the Iron Bird reminiscent of the one Mussolini used to ware on his cunt hat ...they changed it now to a dove of peace ...ahhh much better for a lure.

Maybe you better look up socialism and socialists and see which party is closer to it ...... my friend we are fighting for less central government control not fascism.
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avent
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:01 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 29):
Pearce has denounced JT the wacko ....

Not quite as dramatic as the 'night of the long knives' I suppose.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 29):
I didn't say Pearce does not speak for no one ... I said JT does not .

I stand corrected. But since there's video of Pearce applauding J T Ready, I guess, ol' JT talks for some.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 29):

Pearce is branded a extremist...

The guy happens to be at same rallies that attract neo-nazis, gets photographed with them, and applauds them when they speak. It's all so unfair, isn't it.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 29):

Maybe you better look up socialism and socialists and see which party is closer to it ...... my friend we are fighting for less central government control not fascism.

And building concentration camps in the desert is merely a Teaparty sideshow.
 
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:30 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 30):
And building concentration camps in the desert is merely a Teaparty sideshow.



Sorry ,, Avent ... that was the idea of the weather underground and the Presidents supporters. We will never agree Avent sorry bout that .
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avent
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:30 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 31):
Sorry ,, Avent ... that was the idea of the weather underground and the Presidents supporters. We will never agree Avent sorry bout that .

It's ok, they're building them none-the-less. They're different from those in WWII Europe in that those had metal signs like "works makes you free", and in this case it's the exact opposite since work gets one interred, so the rightwing can take some comfort from that I suppose. I wonder if they will find some decent metal-workers in the camps?
 
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:25 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 25):
Same as many Allied re-enactors want to do '"elite" impressions (this is why you see those ridiculous 200 lbs "Paratroopers", it seems that the guys like to go for those impressions, which fit them physically least, e.g. a guy who would better do an impression of a cookhouse sergeant does a SAS impression, where he should be young, lean and fit) or officers instead of doing what aboutt 80% of all soldiers were: Footslogger Private Tommy Tentpeg, Many Axis re-enactors go for the SS or Fallschirmjäger impressions.

Reanactment is a fantasy game so of course your are going to pretend to be something better than you would be in real life. Who is going to choose to the be the mess hall lackey?

Quoting avent (Reply 28):
But since you have given up pretending Pearce speaks for no one, I'll take a point for myself in that regard.

He didn't say Pearce he said this JT guy whoever he is.

Further more so what if he applauded something that some guy with some wacko views said. I don't know what he applauded but even wackos have ideas or make statements that aren't wacko sometimes. So unless Pearce was applauding one of the wacko statements I don't get the significance of the applause. I don't see any proof that Pearce knew of JT's other activities and crazier viewpoints.
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:38 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
Yea this is pretty stupid. No matter what you are doing or re-enacting it's very bad taste and should not be done. Use your head.

Nothing wrong with with it.

Quoting tugger (Reply 13):
I think this is the the dumbest story, there is just nothing here

Agree

Quoting OA412 (Reply 17):
Did any of you actually bother to read the article? Did you miss the part where the article mentions that Iott was a member of a group dedicated to "re-enacting the exploits of an actual Nazi division, the 5th SS Panzer Division Wiking". There's a difference between belonging to a World War II re-enactment group and one that is dedicated to re-enacting the war from the point of view of a Nazi division, and I assume that you are all well aware of that difference.

No they did not read the article. Why let facts get in the way.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 26):
I wonder why the Huffington Post of The Atlantic Monthly did not bother the include Mr. Iott's explanation?

Iott said he has been involved in re-enactments on and off for roughly 35 years. He said he has dressed as an American soldier for World War I and World War II re-enactments, as well as a soldier from each side of the Civil War.

Once again when has the left let facts get in the way.
 
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OA412
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:57 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 18):
Actually, I don't see the difference. He chooses to re-enact the role of the Nazis during his fun and games. So what? Are you saying that he's a Nazi or sympathetic to Nazism ecause of that?

I don't know about you, but when I want to engage in "fun and games" I don't tend to dress up in the uniform of one of the worst regimes in human history.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 18):
What of our own Civil War re-enactment groups.

What of them?

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 18):
Are those that choose, time and again, to play the Confederate side wanna-be slave owners?

I'm sure some a few of them wouldn't mind going back to the ways of the old South. That said, attempting to draw a comparison between the Third Reich and the Confederacy is laughable at best.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 21):
Its one guy .... one weird guy . According to story today he may have also been dressed as a British Tommy for another reenactment... does that mean he his .... whatever. Man the democrats are desperate ....

Yes, but the funny thing is that this is what is said everytime a skeleton in a Tea Party candidates closet is trotted out for all to see. How long before we start admitting that there seems to be a pattern here?

Quoting windy95 (Reply 34):
Nothing wrong with with it.

That's a funny statement coming from someone flying the Israeli flag.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 34):
No they did not read the article. Why let facts get in the way.

Thank you for proving my point.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 34):
Once again when has the left let facts get in the way.

Still as blindly partisan as ever eh?
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fr8mech
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:24 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 35):
That said, attempting to draw a comparison between the Third Reich and the Confederacy is laughable at best.

I'm not drawing a comparison between the The Third Reich and The Confederacy. I'm asking whether it is appropriate to believe that a re-enactor necessarily reflects the views of the re-enactment. Should we consider a Confederate re-enacter a proponent of slavery? Is a WWII (Nazi) re-enactor a Nazi?

You've already answered the question for yourself and shown your bias.

[Edited 2010-10-12 15:36:48]
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windy95
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:25 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 35):
Quoting windy95 (Reply 34):
Nothing wrong with with it.

That's a funny statement coming from someone flying the Israeli flag.

Why is it funny that people do re-enactments? No big deal...

Quoting OA412 (Reply 35):
Quoting windy95 (Reply 34):
No they did not read the article. Why let facts get in the way.

Thank you for proving my point

You made a point? Was that the one that he has been in many re-enactments over the last 35 years so why make a big deal out of this one..
 
AGM100
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:21 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 35):
How long before we start admitting that there seems to be a pattern here?



Uh ? They ( The President, Speaker of the House and Majority leader and every other dem official) have been saying (admitting) it since the first tea party rally ..... or did you forget already ?

And hey you are free to arrive at patterns all you want .... that is your right to do. Its your right to be wrong after-all ...
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WarRI1
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:47 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
This is insane!
The more I read, the crazier the story became.
This lunatic shouldn't be anywhere near any elected office.
Sadly he may very well will in this conservative district.

I agree, he should not be elected dog catcher. I think that is the first time I have seen such jovial Nazi's. I do have to wonder if they were smiling like that at Malmedy. I know dam well the American Troops were not. When we start wearing a uniform of horror, one of the greatest horrors in history, we are on a slippery slope. I have to assume, just like the Nazi's of old, it is a power trip to wear that uniform for this idiot, just look at what that power trip led to in real life. Democrat or Republican, or Tea Party, he would still be an idiot.
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PSA727
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:37 am

Oh the Democrats are so desparate at this point, it's sad. Tell me, were they as equally outrgaed with the beloved Senator Byrd who wore a Ku Klux Klan uniform? And he did it because he believed in their cause, not because he was doing a historical re-enactment. Would the Left be more comfortable if Iott dressed as a Soviet soldier instead? I know how comfortable they are with communism, so my guess would be yes. And if he dressed up as a Napoleanic soldier, a Viking, or a Roman soldier, it would be the same. All groups were responsible for the deaths of civilians. The Nazis didn't invent slave labor. So if it's not OK to dress up as a Nazi in a re-enactment, then it's not OK to dress up as one of the others. Why doesn't the Atlantic talk up the Stimulus Package, ObamaCare, and the Summer of Recovery instead? Oh yeah... my bad.
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WarRI1
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:55 am

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 40):
Tell me, were they as equally outrgaed with the beloved Senator Byrd who wore a Ku Klux Klan uniform? And he did it because he believed in their cause

Accusing all the rest of humankind of such acts does not excuse this fool for such poor judgement. We all know the sins of the world and the many who have committed them. I do not remember anyone on here praising Senator Byrd. Blame the system in W. VA for electing him, not us. Was there not a man called Trent Lott in the US Senate? I do believe he was a Republican. I do believe he resigned over Racial matters. We are discussing this man who has the same last name, as his Southern fellow Republican. I would suggest you drop this attempt to tar and feather Democrats who are guilty of Bigotry. I suggest both parties have their Bigots.   
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ltbewr
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:37 am

What if this person did a role of a Confederate Civil War General? That could be interpertred as even worse than protraying a Nazi officer to many, especially Black persons.

While I have no problem with such disclosures, it is another case of something too common in today's politics in the USA. That is if you can't compete with a canidate on real issues like tax and spending policies, they go for something about their character that could be brought out without context, is very emotional to many and guaranteed to distact from your real problems as a canidate. We have canidates for office who have very serious background issues from operaing business that have exported 1000's of jobs, exploit their USA based employees including using drugs, even to the point of killing them, are blatently anti-union, racists, sexists, lie about their war record, are themselves very rich and support Corporate clients rather than the huring poor and working class in the USA. We also need the parties to better vet canidates, to make sure they don't have issues that can come out and ruin their canidacy, keep out crazies, keep out those with serious financial or moral conflicts.
 
Starbuk7
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:49 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 35):
I don't know about you, but when I want to engage in "fun and games" I don't tend to dress up in the uniform of one of the worst regimes in human history.


So, you are saying that Hollywood should not do any movies about past wars because re-enactments with Nazi's are just wrong and should not be done.

How else are you supposed to show people the things that happened then and someone is going to have to dress as a Nazi to get the point across, there is nothing wrong with people ding re-enactments and I am sure that is does not reflect their views of society, someone has to play the "bad guy" in these things.
 
avent
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:24 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 36):
I'm not drawing a comparison between the The Third Reich and The Confederacy. I'm asking whether it is appropriate to believe that a re-enactor necessarily reflects the views of the re-enactment. Should we consider a Confederate re-enacter a proponent of slavery? Is a WWII (Nazi) re-enactor a Nazi?
Quoting PSA727 (Reply 40):
So if it's not OK to dress up as a Nazi in a re-enactment, then it's not OK to dress up as one of the others.
Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 42):
What if this person did a role of a Confederate Civil War General? That could be interpertred as even worse than protraying a Nazi officer to many, especially Black persons.

No.

Iott did not just do random enactments; he wasn't part of a group that needed some members to play the roles of the SS; he was affiliated with an enthusiasts' site for a specific SS group. That goes beyond simple re-enactments. His justification was he was impressed with their efficiency, so he made a judgement on their merits, and being SS and associated with atrocities apparently did not concern him. This is why his judgment is called into question.
 
AGM100
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:02 pm

Anyone who does any reading about the German army in WWII will know the difference between the German military and the Nazi's . The German Military , its tactics , weapons , commanders and traditions are regarded as pinnacle's of military might.

The Nazi's ,who in most cases were hated by German military command were a sick and sadistic side show to the professional German army. The invasion of Russia proves this ; once the German "anti partisan forces " (Waffen SS) followed up the main forces in Barbarossa the murder of Jews , Gypsies and many other's began in earnest.

5th SS Panzer Division "Wiking" was a notorious division indeed .... and guilty of war crimes in the tallest order. 5th SS saw allot of action and its soldiers fought "heroically" throughout the war ..it was also well known for its cruel Einsatzgruppe attachments the worst of the worst.

All in all .... I guess I kind of understand the guy being interested in the military history, but I would not choose to be caught in a 5th SS uniform myself.
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LOT767-300ER
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:33 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
I wonder what the Russians would say about them, the French, the Dutch, the Finns, Poles, the British etc.

This is one of those things that Americans think would make some culture uncomfortable because its insensitive to them when in reality no one really gives a damn in that culture...especially when it comes to war re-enactment.

I dont find this offensive at all, it was a re-enactment..who in their right mind is stupid enough to believe he is actually a Nazi from 1930/1940s?

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 15):
Who cares?

It's a re-enactment and both sides can't be the allies.

Exactly.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 25):
SS re-enactmen t is interestingly a very common thing in the UK, the US and even Russia and Poland (don´t ask me why).

History is interesting and not to be forgotten, majority arent politically correct like in the US. I would also bet that people would be 100x more uncomfortable with Soviet forces re-enactment than any German re-enactment if it really came down to it...which is not hard to believe because over a span of a few decades the SS was a minor detail next to Soviet forces when it came to murdering people.

Why doesnt Arianna Huffington just go back to Greece and start preaching over there, shed do more good to fix up that bankrupt place.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 41):
Was there not a man called Trent Lott in the US Senate? I do believe he was a Republican

Trent Lott was booted because he made a comment that he supported someone who was first a democrat (Strom Thurmond)

Let me get this straight, No Democrats vote for the 14th Amendment and were pro-Slavery, then they put in Jim Crow Laws, then they start the KKK, then they sell a whole region of Europe who in WW2 fought against Soviets and died for democracy while the same prez puts the Japanese in camps and then after the Soviets go down they screw us over even more. And you are talking about Republican racism and unfairness? Fantastic. That really is laughable.

Robert Byrd, the "great" Democrat senator is the biggest irony yet, Its the equivalent of an ex-SS member being in today's German Bundestag. That sorry excuse of a human should have been hung.

Your statement is a joke.

[Edited 2010-10-13 13:52:33]
 
AGM100
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:53 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 46):
shed do more good to fix up that bankrupt place.



Pretty simple ...her ideology does not work unless they have rich people to steal from. Her ideology would not work in say Kenya or Greece .... it only works after someone else has done all the hard work then they arrive at the party and start demanding food.
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Superfly
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:53 am

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 46):
Trent Lott was booted because he made a comment that he supported someone who was first a democrat (Strom Thurmond)

Let me get this straight, No Democrats vote for the 14th Amendment and were pro-Slavery, then they put in Jim Crow Laws, then they start the KKK, then they sell a whole region of Europe who in WW2 fought against Soviets and died for democracy while the same prez puts the Japanese in camps and then after the Soviets go down they screw us over even more. And you are talking about Republican racism and unfairness? Fantastic. That really is laughable.

.....and all of those old Democrats switched to the Republican Party, just as Strom Thurmond.
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WarRI1
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RE: Republican Candidate As SS Re-enactor

Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:09 am

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 46):
Trent Lott was booted because he made a comment that he supported someone who was first a democrat (Strom Thurmond)

Trent Lott Republican was a Bigot, talk about a joke statement, you sure are good at it. Trent Lott was booted for being a Bigot. My goodness talk about an inability to admit something, yes there are bigoted Republicans, really!  Wow!
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