greasespot
Topic Author
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:48 am

I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:41 pm

Well i got the Iphone 4. So this year I have purchased a Macbook , Ipad , Shuffle ,Ipod Nano, and now the iPhone 4,.

Please is there a place I can go..I need help. I am afraid to set foot in an apple store or any computer store that sells apple...

GS

Note: I Upgraded the Iphone 4 from a Iphone 3 that worked fine..
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
RamblinMan
Posts: 785
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:57 pm

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:42 pm

Quoting greasespot (Thread starter):
Please is there a place I can go..I need help

What, you mean like a "Macaholics Anonymous" or "Steve-Jobs-has-my-life-savings support group?"
Sorry, couldn't resist.

Where, exactly, do you need to go? You've got multiple cell phones and mp3 players and a laptop. Just stay the hell away from electronics stores altogether!
 
seb146
Posts: 13756
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:29 pm

I like Macs because of the lower risk of computer viruses. I simply can not afford one, so I have a Compaq running Windows. If more web sites and equipment ran Linux, I would gladly switch. I hate Windows, but there is nothing I can do about that, it seems. In the mean time, I refuse to give my meager earnings to Apple; I do not own an iPhone, iPad, iPod, iTunes, iSpeakers, iCar, iBike, iFood, iGlasses.... Besides, if a company does not know the proper use of capitalization, they do not deserve my money!
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
Continental
Posts: 5222
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:44 pm

How do so many people get viruses? I've never gotten a virus on my PC. It's probably a good idea just to stay away from downloading torrents.
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:48 pm

You sir, require prompt treatment. Please read the following 10 times, from top to bottom and bottom to top:

 
seb146
Posts: 13756
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:49 pm

Quoting Continental (Reply 3):
How do so many people get viruses? I've never gotten a virus on my PC. It's probably a good idea just to stay away from downloading torrents.

I never understood that, either. I visit the same 10 web sites and open e-mail from only friends and family I know. The only torrents I download are from the music sharing service. Even that has an option to download only music or all files (which would include viruses, I would imagine) so I don't know how viruses are transmitted....
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
fraspotter
Posts: 1971
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 8:12 pm

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:54 pm

I don't think you took a "sip" from the Kool-Aid, you took a gulp!
"Drunk drivers run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:44 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 4):
You sir, require prompt treatment. Please read the following 10 times, from top to bottom and bottom to top:


Um, Greasespot is not a "Sir". I´d say, that in her official position as a Canadian police officer she´d prefer to be called "Madam".

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Asturias
Posts: 1953
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:32 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:17 pm

Been a Mac user for 15 years and I'm quitting the Kool-aid. There's something phenomenally dreary about the Mac these days. The next OS seems to be poised to make the Mac like a huge iPad or something.

Actually I'd still consider myself firmly in the Mac camp if it wasn't for Windows 7 which is pretty darn good - and Mac OS hasn't improved for years.

Nothing wrong with an iPod or anything, but the Macintosh is dead.

asturias
Tonight we fly
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:40 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 4):
Please read the following 10 times, from top to bottom and bottom to top:

It'd be sad if anyone actually took that seriously.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
BMI727
Posts: 11089
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:49 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 9):
It'd be sad if anyone actually took that seriously.

Yeah, YouTube wouldn't have nearly as many cute yet useless videos and blogging about proper care for dreadlocks or the new eco-friendly sitar you friend in the indie band invented would be all but impossible.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:02 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
YouTube wouldn't have nearly as many cute yet useless videos and blogging about proper care for dreadlocks or the new eco-friendly sitar you friend in the indie band invented would be all but impossible.

You think that's what Mac users do?   
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:06 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 8):
Been a Mac user for 15 years and I'm quitting the Kool-aid. There's something phenomenally dreary about the Mac these days. The next OS seems to be poised to make the Mac like a huge iPad or something.

If you want, you will be able to get software for the Mac easier than before. If you don't, nothing changes in that regard.

And we haven't seen any of the technical info on 10.7 Lion yet – just a limited glimpse at parts of the user interface.

10.5 Leopard and 10.6 Snow Leopard have also provided quite substantial upgrades, much of them under the hood.

Jump ship if you want – just don't do it for imaginary reasons.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 8):
Nothing wrong with an iPod or anything, but the Macintosh is dead.

Hm. Mine don't even smell yet...!   
 
greasespot
Topic Author
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:48 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:10 pm

Why would I need to go. Well because they just released a new macbook air..  

Seems Apple releases something that says new and improved I start the car and somehow find my way inside the apple store.

Plus there is tons of iAnything cases that I do not have...

FFS I have 194GB of Ipod storage space.

gs
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6789
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:13 pm

And wifey is at the Apple store right now getting a program.





Got my first Apple product almost 2 years ago, a Macbook pro. I like if b/c I simply have not had issues ass I had with Dell.

You pay a premium but its worth it IMHO.

Anyway,
if you need

Quoting greasespot (Thread starter):
Macbook , Ipad , Shuffle ,Ipod Nano, and now the iPhone 4,.

, then you need it.

Quite frankly, I have my Macbook pro at home, I have all day computer access in the office as well. So I am REALLY hardpressed to get an iPhone, Nano, Shuffle or iPad. I can't find any real use for them.


I think I want an iPad but not sure for what.....odd, isnt it?
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:27 pm

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 14):
I think I want an iPad but not sure for what.....odd, isnt it?

Not at all. I would not have seen a really pressing need to get one either, but now that I've got it I use it quite frequently and would indeed miss it if it was gone.

Your mileage will probably vary, but I would recommend taking a closer look only if purchasing one would not be a problem for you...
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6789
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:30 pm

Perhaps around the holidays. I can see it being used in my office with patient care. But overall, Im sort of a less is more kinda guy.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
Springbok747
Posts: 4007
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:13 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:49 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 9):
It'd be sad if anyone actually took that seriously.

The sad thing is..that picture Fly2hmo posted is completely true.
אני תומך בישראל
 
Asturias
Posts: 1953
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:32 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:25 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
If you want, you will be able to get software for the Mac easier than before. If you don't, nothing changes in that regard.

I wasn't referring to the Mac App Store (which is really a feature of Snow Leopard, rather than Lion it seems... ) but the iOS interface that seems to be the 'thing' these days. It's not Mac.. it's iPad.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
And we haven't seen any of the technical info on 10.7 Lion yet – just a limited glimpse at parts of the user interface.

True, but it was shown for a reason. To prepare the crowd that there will be iOS-ish changes aplenty in Lion. By the way, did they ever say it was supposed to be 10.7? Lion could be OS 11 for all we know.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
10.5 Leopard and 10.6 Snow Leopard have also provided quite substantial upgrades, much of them under the hood.

So they tell us and I'm fine with that. The iOS-ification of Mac OS, that's cheap. And uninspired.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
Jump ship if you want – just don't do it for imaginary reasons.

Haha yes of course I'll 'jump ship' if I want, but I won't if the Mac stays the Mac. It's my favorite platform, but it seems to be changing into something I don't really recognize. Well I do recognize it, but only from a portable music player with a tiny screen.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
Hm. Mine don't even smell yet...!

Snow Leopard is still 'Macintosh', but Lion will perhaps be more something else and less Macintosh. When I don't even recongnize the Mac anymore, that's when I'll 'jump ship'. That seems to be: Mac OS Lion.

At least until we know more. A damn shame, despite being somewhat pricey and sometimes underpowered, the Mac was always a joy to use and work with. Now, I hesitate to say this, but it's more true now than ever: Windows 7 is probably just as nice to use as the Mac OS X.

asturias
Tonight we fly
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:46 pm

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 17):
The sad thing is..that picture Fly2hmo posted is completely true.

   Nothing about it is, not even remotely.

Step 1: I can replace the HDD and RAM in my MBP if I wish to, and the optical drive as well if the manufacturer chooses to provide a driver or one is written by the Mac community. I was also able to choose from various screen sizes and CPUs when I ordered the laptop.

Step 2: The picture on the Mac side isn't even of the actual system preferences panel. Next.

Step 3: Nice... a desktop PC vs. a laptop Mac - same as above, apples and oranges (pun fully intended).

Step 4: This desktop vs. laptop thing is really getting old... and my MBP has never been inside a Starbucks either.

Step 5: *yawn* It's good to see that the 15 y/o macho wannabes who made this picture have more fun smacking a CRT monitor into someones face than they have making something useful out of an old 1st gen iMac.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Asturias
Posts: 1953
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:32 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:08 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 4):
You sir, require prompt treatment. Please read the following 10 times, from top to bottom and bottom to top:

The 1st step is correct, you'll always be able to piece together better hardware on the Wintel than a Mac and Windows supports a much wider variety of things than Mac ever has or will. Windows PC wins!   

The 2nd step is debatable, seeing as you'd need a lot more 'control' on Windows since there are a lot more things that need adjusting etc. I'd actually say that if you know what you're doing on a Mac, you can adjust and fine tune a lot of things. They are hidden, but they're there. Windows is just more user-friendly in this regard. A draw between Mac and PC!  

The 3rd step is correct in most cases because Macs are mostly mobile or use mobile design. Everything except the Mac Pro uses some sort of a mobile motherboard, which means everything is soldered on and hard to reach. In effect, if a Mac fails, the entire machine must be replaced. Sure the HD can be replaced (except on the iMac unless you have a workshop at home) and perhaps the RAM if it isn't soldered on. But in all other cases, replacement is the only viable way to 'repair'. Of course this applies just the same to PC mobiles. So by a thin margin, the Windows PC wins this one    (because Mac Pros are so rare it's almost mythical so they don't really count)

The 4th step is pretty much the same as the third step. If you have a PC laptop, you could just as well have a Mac. Neither one is easy to upgrade, save for some RAM and HD perhaps (of course the MacBook Air is completely useless in this regard) so again because Windows PC tower still exist in some numbers, the PC wins again!   

The 5th step.. well Apple may think they're really environmentally friendly, but seeing as almost every single design that comes from Cupertino needs to be thrown away if it breaks or outlives its purpose, I don't see it as being environmental. The most ecological person would buy a Windows/Linux PC tower and maintain it over far longer than any Mac is designed to be maintained. A win for PC   

All in all, that list is somewhat heavily biased towards the PC, but it does highlight the fact that the Mac OS prides itself to be the lowest common denominator and the Mac hardware is closed and non-replaceable. Not very environmental.

asturias

[Edited 2010-10-24 15:11:11]
Tonight we fly
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:25 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):

Um, Greasespot is not a "Sir". I´d say, that in her official position as a Canadian police officer she´d prefer to be called "Madam".

Oh dammit I always forget she's one of the ladies here. My bad.

Quoting aloges (Reply 19):

Step 5: *yawn* It's good to see that the 15 y/o macho wannabes who made this picture have more fun smacking a CRT monitor into someones face than they have making something useful out of an old 1st gen iMac.

*yawn* Now THIS is being creative:



                
 
User avatar
cpd
Posts: 4548
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:49 pm

I don't get all this Mac -v- PC hatred. They are machines to get the job done.

Mac running Windows and Mac OS is the best of both worlds for me. Although I use both Mac and PC. I have no preferences - except that I prefer to avoid old Windows XP 32bit.

64bit Windows 7 and Mac OSX have us very spoiled.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 20):
In effect, if a Mac fails,

We had one at work (older model iMac) that did have a failure. They came out and fixed it promptly on the same day. The failed part was replaced and then the whole thing was up and running again very quickly.

[Edited 2010-10-24 17:03:50]
 
Asturias
Posts: 1953
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:32 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:53 pm

Quoting cpd (Reply 22):
We had one at work (older model iMac) that did have a failure. They came out and fixed it promptly on the same day. Just the failed part (the video card by ATI) was replaced and then the whole thing was up and running again very quickly.

There is no video card in an iMac, so the entire motherboard was replaced. Which is so expensive for us mere mortals that replacing the iMac is the only viable option.

I had an 2006 20" iMac and the video chips failed (randomly produced strange lines and froze the Mac) and the repair cost at an Apple certified repair shop was 800 euro. A new similar iMac is only a little over 1000.

asturias
Tonight we fly
 
User avatar
cpd
Posts: 4548
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:59 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 23):
There is no video card in an iMac, so the entire motherboard was replaced.

Oh, pick at the details then. I give up. I should learn, I must spent two hours writing fine print and terms and conditions at the end of my message in order to prevent you people picking at the details.  

And speaking of your quote, that's not quite an absolute, or quite correct for that matter. After having checked, it wasn't the version of iMac I expected - but one where the card can be replaced. I can point you to a step by step article showing how it is done.

[Edited 2010-10-24 17:20:45]
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:35 am

As for ecological impact, recent investigations have indeed confirmed that there is exactly one manufacturer which has made major progress on avoidance of toxic chemicals and recyclability: Apple.

All the others are far behind on even their much more modest promises.


Quoting Asturias (Reply 23):
There is no video card in an iMac

Incorrect. The current and at least various previous models very much have socketed video cards. And at least the higher-performance iMacs do in fact use socketed desktop CPUs by now.

If you disagreed with the out-of-warranty repair cost estimate by Apple themselves, there are other reputable repair services, some of which do in fact stock replacement parts (new or used). So a repair would probably have been possible at a much lower price.

In over 15 years of owning 5 Macs in total I've had one single defect – which was promptly and painlessly fixed under warranty. In my experience, Macs are built to last, and all of mine still work. In real life there is not that much difference between the repairability of Macs or PCs.

RAM is standard and always socketed (with the only exception of the MacBook Air).
Harddisks are also standard and replaceable.
Same for optical drives.

If you want to further reduce your risk, book Apple Care for 3 years of extended warranty and support.

Had I built a bunch of PCs over the years (of course I could not have had my two portable machines in that case), I would have wasted a whole lot of time and work on them, without any benefit whatsoever, probably at greater risk of defects than I've actually had.

There's always the possibility of having just plain bad luck. But in technology products that's what warranty extension or other insurance is for if you'd fear the risk. If I forgo an offered warranty in the hope of "saving" money, I deliberately accept that I'll have to pay for any problems myself. That's the deal, and it's perfectly obvious.

And even then there are multiple options if something should go wrong.

I don't really see the point.

[Edited 2010-10-24 17:39:49]
 
Asturias
Posts: 1953
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:32 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:38 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 24):
Oh, pick at the details then. I give up. I should learn, I must spent two hours writing fine print and terms and conditions at the end of my message in order to prevent you people picking at the details.

Well that 'detail' was rather important for me, since it cost me an entire computer instead of just a relatively cheap video card. Hence my critical stance at the Mac 'disposable' design (this applies to all Macs, except the Mac Pro)

Quoting cpd (Reply 24):
And speaking of your quote, that's not quite an absolute, or quite correct for that matter. After having checked, it wasn't the version of iMac I expected - but one where the card can be replaced. I can point you to a step by step article showing how it is done.

Look, there is no version of the iMac where the video card can be replaced. Never has existed. Ever. So you must have had a Mac Pro that fried its video card or the entire motherboard was replaced. And just for clarity, the motherboard is the entire computer except the hard-drive, the optical drive and the monitor.

Hence, it's rather expensive to replace and buying a new computer remains the only viable option. Of course they'll replace the motherboard no questions asked if the Mac is under warranty. So it is possible if you really want that.

But on other devices, such as the iDevices, they just give you a new one (or you have to buy a new one).

asturias
Tonight we fly
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:47 am

Quoting Asturias (Reply 26):
Look, there is no version of the iMac where the video card can be replaced. Never has existed. Ever.

Sorry, but that is patently wrong.

Check out the ifixit teardowns if you don't believe it.
 
User avatar
cpd
Posts: 4548
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:03 am

Quoting Asturias (Reply 26):

Well that 'detail' was rather important for me, since it cost me an entire computer instead of just a relatively cheap video card. Hence my critical stance at the Mac 'disposable' design (this applies to all Macs, except the Mac Pro)

See Klaus' reply above.
 
Asturias
Posts: 1953
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:32 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:25 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 25):
As for ecological impact, recent investigations have indeed confirmed that there is exactly one manufacturer which has made major progress on avoidance of toxic chemicals and recyclability: Apple.

Energy, transport, packaging etc. with every new Mac is a huge part of the environmental impact, so while I don't disagree that Apple has improved a lot in the recycling of their products the fact that "buy a new one" is the standard remidy isn't very environmental.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 25):
Incorrect. The current and at least various previous models very much have socketed video cards. And at least the higher-performance iMacs do in fact use socketed desktop CPUs by now.

Yeah in some of the largest iMacs, this is true. But it is the exception, not the rule. Though I concede that I was wrong in my blanket statement. However it was very true for my 20" iMac.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 25):
If you disagreed with the out-of-warranty repair cost estimate by Apple themselves, there are other reputable repair services, some of which do in fact stock replacement parts (new or used). So a repair would probably have been possible at a much lower price.

None in my city.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 25):
In over 15 years of owning 5 Macs in total I've had one single defect – which was promptly and painlessly fixed under warranty. In my experience, Macs are built to last, and all of mine still work. In real life there is not that much difference between the repairability of Macs or PCs.

Ah anecdotal story time! I've had 4 Macs in the last 10 years. All of them defective. First an iBook that lost connection to the trackpad and then the motherboard fried. Second another iBook G4, which had a defective RAM chip soldered onto the board (endless random kernel panics) and had to have the motherboard replaced, a PowerBook G4 that the hard-drive failed (was replaced) but later the monitor lost the backlight and finally the iMac. Which fried its graphic chip and it couldn't be replaced.

Besides that I've had 4 iPods, two of which died on me (hard-drive) but the nano and the touch are still among the living. Now I'm persisting by using a hand-me-down Powerbook from my father.

So all my Macs failed when out of warranty (2 years) and currently I'm hesitant to invest in a fifth.

Sorry cpd, I never considered the possibility that there were some (random) socketed iMacs out there. Never had the $$s to go high end iMac even.

Either way, Lion seems to be iOS X so Windows is looking real good these days. Hardware is cheaper too, when you just want a box that works. Not looking at a mobile.

asturias
Tonight we fly
 
Ken777
Posts: 9020
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:38 am

Quoting Asturias (Reply 8):
Nothing wrong with an iPod or anything, but the Macintosh is dead.

Their Mac lines had a 28% sales increase last quarter - how did the PC world do, even with Win 7 to help boost sales?

Quoting greasespot (Reply 13):
Well because they just released a new macbook air..

That's a good enough reason.   My wife has had a MBA for a couple of years and loves the size.

The other reason to go back to the Apple Store is to keep looking at the 27" iMac.

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 14):
I think I want an iPad but not sure for what.....odd, isnt it?

No, that's normal. In this recession we are in it seems that only Apple can deliver new products that make people happy and happy to spend money.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 18):
I wasn't referring to the Mac App Store (which is really a feature of Snow Leopard, rather than Lion it seems... ) but the iOS interface that seems to be the 'thing' these days. It's not Mac.. it's iPad.

I think you need to look at how things have progressed. First there was the iPhone - but as Jobs recently said the iPad was actually first in the labs, but they realized they could use the R&D for a mobile phone - therefore the iPhone, which has flown out the door.

Then there was the iPod touch which has also been flying out the door - especially for customers who can't use (or stand) ATT, or can't afford the iPhone costs.

Then there are developers. By the time Apple actually opened the AppStore and delivered the SDK the developers were about wetting themselves to get started. Lots of fart apps and clocks, but also some useful apps.

And to develop apps you needed to have a Mac - even a Mac mini.

There are now 300,000 apps in the AppStore. I wonder how many PC developers bought Macs just to develop apps. Neat marketing there.

Then Apple went back to the start and delivered the iPad. Brought out the name "iOS", which is an obvious name.

There was rapid success of the iPad and one clear reason was "everyone already knows how to use it". Well, not everyone, but all iPhone & touch users.

That key is so important I'll say it (actually write it) again: "everyone already knows how to use it".

Remember that key phrase when you think of Lion. Apple isn't moving OS X to iOS and they aren't moving Macs to iPads. Apple is making POTENTIAL customers feel the Mac is a natural purchase for the first time. They will, more than ever, fall into the group "everyone already knows how to use it".

As for some of the changes, they will probably be additions rather than changing how you use the Mac.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 18):
Snow Leopard is still 'Macintosh', but Lion will perhaps be more something else and less Macintosh.

Wait for Jobs Keynote at WWDC 11 before deciding where they are going. Look for him to make developers very happy - which should bring a smile to our face as well.
 
Asturias
Posts: 1953
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:32 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:46 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 30):
Their Mac lines had a 28% sales increase last quarter - how did the PC world do, even with Win 7 to help boost sales?

I meant the Macintosh as we know it. The sales are fine, in fact better than fine. Normally that would make me a happy man, but now I'm not sure.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 30):
Remember that key phrase when you think of Lion. Apple isn't moving OS X to iOS and they aren't moving Macs to iPads. Apple is making POTENTIAL customers feel the Mac is a natural purchase for the first time. They will, more than ever, fall into the group "everyone already knows how to use it".

Granted this is a possibility and I do hope you are right.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 30):
Wait for Jobs Keynote at WWDC 11 before deciding where they are going. Look for him to make developers very happy - which should bring a smile to our face as well.

Yeah, I'll probably do that. I'm not in any big hurry to get a new machine. But I have to admit that I'm not nearly as optimistic as you... I fully expect iOS X at WWDC 11.

I'm fine with the Mac App Store, doubt it will change much for me, since I've never had problems finding apps - but more options are always welcome.

asturias
Tonight we fly
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 2602
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:04 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 22):
I don't get all this Mac -v- PC hatred.

Not as bad as Windows vs Linux hatred...

Quoting greasespot (Thread starter):
Please is there a place I can go..I need help. I am afraid to set foot in an apple store or any computer store that sells apple...

Why? I dare to say many people spent this year more on booze than you spent on technology. So all I can say is: Enjoy!

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 1):
What, you mean like a "Macaholics Anonymous" or "Steve-Jobs-has-my-life-savings support group?"

        
310, 319, 320, 321, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, Saab 340, YAK40
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:45 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 32):
Not as bad as Windows vs Linux hatred...

I wouldn't call it hatred, IMO. Maybe fear. From my experience, Linux is very well respected even by hardcore Windows guys. Personally the only thing keeping me from switching to Linux is that I'm too lazy.

This sums the systems up nicely:

 
User avatar
cpd
Posts: 4548
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:15 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 33):
Personally the only thing keeping me from switching to Linux is that I'm too lazy.

I use it for selected purposes. It's great for recovering data from failed Lacie external network storage (where the OS on the drive has failed). Take the HDD out of them, connect them via the SATA cables and then fire up Ubuntu from the CD, data recovery made easy. You've got to give yourself the highest level "admin rights" (there is a linux term for it) and then you have access to all the files and folders. Found out how to do that the hard way.  

But I wouldn't dream of using a traditional Linux system for normal purposes. I'm too pampered by the Windows 7 and Mac OSX ease of use. Mac OSX is however Unix based underneath - just that it isn't so scary to people who are particularly not savvy with Linux/Unix (like me).

My Apple products at home are limited to:

- iPod Video 5th Generation
- iPhone 3G
- iPhone 4
- iMac 20"
- A1081 Cinema Display (used on a Windows PC).

The old iMac still works well, but is now not powerful enough to run things like Adobe CS5 Master Collection.

[Edited 2010-10-24 22:20:33]
 
ALTF4
Posts: 1154
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:01 pm

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:31 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 2):
I like Macs because of the lower risk of computer viruses.

Don't take this as a sleight to you; you were just the only one I saw that posted this common argument. I always chuckle at statements like this, because at first, it seems like a good argument. Macs are relatively insecure but it does not matter, as relatively speaking not many are in use. Believe it or not, most viruses and spyware are not written for the hell of it, but rather for a certain cause, whether it be to comandeer systems to perform actions against a target that the creator does not like, or for financial gain. It simply does not make sense for them to write stuff for Macs.

So, while the statement is true, there's more to worry about. You are a lot more vulnerable to one-off attacks - say, somebody sitting in the same starbucks as you getting access to your computer.

Additionally, in the future, as Macs become more and more popular, the argument of "Macs don't get viruses as easily" will start to loose traction, if not completely backfire, as it becomes a sound business decision for those the write the programs to target Macs.

As somebody working in the computer / network security industry, I can tell you that an "out of the box" Mac is many more times insecure than an "out of the box" Windows computer, even without the crap addon anti-virus, firewalls (Windows default works just fine), etc. I can't tell you how many times I have gotten access to my mac mini through security holes. Many of the vulnerabilities are not published or public, which is more cause for concern, as those will most likely not get patched until made public, leaving a wide-open door to those who know the vulnerabilities.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 25):
Had I built a bunch of PCs over the years (of course I could not have had my two portable machines in that case), I would have wasted a whole lot of time and work on them, without any benefit whatsoever, probably at greater risk of defects than I've actually had.

Depends on if you know what you are doing or not, quite frankly.

==

Anyways, I'm starting to wonder when Apple will get hit with anti-trust investigations. We had the famous Microsoft and Internet Explorer fiasco - I fail to see how that is worse than Apple including its own in-OS app store (not in iPhones, I count those differently, but in OS X) and KEEPING 30% of the sales. Even the slightest action on their side to even remotely make it harder to develop and publish and support applications outside of their app store should but probably won't be investigated.
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 2602
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:15 pm

Quoting cpd (Reply 34):
I use it for selected purposes. It's great for recovering data from failed Lacie external network storage (where the OS on the drive has failed).

Funny, we use it for the same purpose. I'm writing "we", because I'm not doing it personally anymore - our youngest son is doing it. I can't really understand why is a HDD not accessible by Windows quite well readable by Linux (Mandriva and Ubuntu).
310, 319, 320, 321, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, Saab 340, YAK40
 
Ken777
Posts: 9020
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:25 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 32):
I dare to say many people spent this year more on booze than you spent on technology.

I've given up drinking so I could buy more stuff at the Apple Store.   

I just wish I had been able to have all this stuff when in high school instead of in retirement. Especially word processing with a spellchecker and the internet instead of the encyclopedia.

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 35):
Anyways, I'm starting to wonder when Apple will get hit with anti-trust investigations.

I don't think Apple is close to anti-trust problems. The Mac certainly isn't at risk. The Mac line continues to impress in design, OS X continues to improve and their market share protects them from legal problems.

The iPod line is also protected with plenty of competition out there. In this line-up the consumer establishes sales volumes, especially since Apple plays hard, but legally. There have been issues, especially in Europe, on music sales, but that is related to copyright laws and Apple (as well as other companies) would love simplification within the EU.

iOS lines? Apple is again protected with the simple fact that consumers are making the decisions. On the iPhone they also have Google protecting them with the Android phones Google supports.

The iPad line will have similar protections. Computer companies have had tablets before and are working on tablets again. It's a wide open market.

The AppStore might have been a potential candidate, but again, the competition is following Apple's design so there is a viable, competitive market. Customers have a wide range of choice.

And the fact that Apple has announced the AppStore reaching 300,000 apps is a pretty good indication that developers are pretty pleased with the program. For those who don't want to be in the program there is the "unlocked market".
 
ALTF4
Posts: 1154
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:01 pm

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:16 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 37):
I don't think Apple is close to anti-trust problems.

Did you read beyond that first sentence? I agree with most of what you said, but see what I wrote (included below):

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 35):
Anyways, I'm starting to wonder when Apple will get hit with anti-trust investigations. We had the famous Microsoft and Internet Explorer fiasco - I fail to see how that is worse than Apple including its own in-OS app store (not in iPhones, I count those differently, but in OS X) and KEEPING 30% of the sales. Even the slightest action on their side to even remotely make it harder to develop and publish and support applications outside of their app store should but probably won't be investigated.

To expound on that, I don't think any of their mobile devices are at risk. I do, however, wonder about the inclusion of an OS X app store, as they just announced will be in Snow Leopard and Lion. I like the idea of it - in short, Apple takes care of all of the delivery and updating and payment for the apps, and in return keeps 30%. Not a bad deal... software publishers do that all the time, no harm no foul.

The issue is, Apple both makes the OS and will start controlling sales, assuming this becomes the "preffered" method of distribution.

Ok, maybe that is not quite enough either.

But if they make even the slightest move towards restricting, in any way, the ability or availability or ease or use or whatever of non-app store apps on OS X, I could see there being issues.

That results in application publishers (many "small-studio" software packages are published by other companies) being edged out.

You might argue it is the same as the mobile sector, so whats the fuss - but the mobile sector has, in a way, always been "closed" like that, and the PC market always more open.

I could be making a bigger deal out of it than it really is, but I just think that the app store for OS X (separate from the iOS app store) will really take off, leaving developers who don't use it (who want to keep 100% of the profit) at a disadvantage, or current publishers out of business in the OS X market.

EDIT: I see this more as a problem as they grow beyond their current market share of ~20%, not necessarily right off the bat right now.

[Edited 2010-10-25 10:18:08]
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:46 pm

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 38):
The issue is, Apple both makes the OS and will start controlling sales, assuming this becomes the "preffered" method of distribution.

Apple has no monopoly in the PC market, so anti-trust remedies are just not applicable.

Microsoft effectively had a monopoly position in the PC OS market and leveraged that monopoly into the browser market. That was why they got into trouble. MS had always played for total market domination, and that can get you into hot water as we've seen.

When you're looking at Apple's strategy, they don't even aim at such a position. They gladly leave the large low- to no-margin segments of the respective markets to the competition – that still gets them a comfortably high profit share of the market but keeps the anti-trust authorities off their back by allowing plenty of competitors fighting over the table scraps. Smart.

The manufacturer of your freezer may have complete control of the OS of its microcontroller just like Sony has of the Playstation OS and what's to get on to it, but neither have controlling positions in their respective markets. Hence no risk of official intervention.

Even if Apple decided to completely control Mac software sales the way they're doing for iOS, apart from potentially doing undue harm to existing Mac software vendors I wouldn't see anti-trust remedies being applicable either.

It would be a stupid move and they will almost certainly never do that, but if they wanted to live with the economical consequences, they very well could.

Effectively the Mac App Store will be a boon for most non-technical users and still for many technically oriented ones for ease of purchase and installation of validated software, but it is pretty certain that it will remain just an option for the long haul (it certainly will be just an option in 10.7 Lion by Jobs' own words).
 
Ken777
Posts: 9020
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:49 pm

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 38):
Did you read beyond that first sentence?

I did, but I approached the situation from an Apple wide view.

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 38):
The issue is, Apple both makes the OS and will start controlling sales, assuming this becomes the "preffered" method of distribution.

When it comes to the AppStore for OS X I believe that there will be several approaches for buying software:

DIrect sales will not be excluded. You will still be able to go into a store (Apple or not) and buy a boxed copy of, say, Parallels. Or you will be able to order Parallels directly from the company, or any third party reseller. You might even search the internet for the best price. (Parallels 6.0, BTW, is pretty fast for me.   )

Another avenue will be developers who are selling in the open market and who realize that they have a valid reason to join the OS X App Store. Might just to get some vigorous exposure for their products, especially if they are small and sales are not that plentiful.

In both of these situations the application may well be on apple.com Store - available for purchase through Apple for long time already.

So what would be new with the AppStore? The method of delivery - Apple handling the whole responsibility. Sales without having to produce the CDs and boxes, shipment, etc.

And there are two new avenues to what Macs (and PCs) have had for years.

The first would be new apps that were born on the iPhone/touch and are reasonably easy to "convert" to OS X. Out of the 300,000 that would only represent a fraction, but it can be an important fraction. It also opens the door for lower priced apps that can generate higher volumes for the developer.

I also see iOS developers taking a hard look at the OS X platform. Even PC developers had to buy a Mac to develop their iOS apps on. They have the tools for iOS and Apple will, IMHO, provide easy transitions for OS X development. Even for small apps.

Considering these two avenues I can see a lot of inexpensive apps flowing to the Mac - maybe "Lite" versions. I can see this approach working for iOS customers who have not used the Mac before. The potential for strong tie in (syncing) between iOS and OSX could be huge, especially with Lion making OS X "look natural" for iOS users.

When I look at it in that light my mind goes back to the consistent stat we hear in Apple's Quarterly Results: Over half of the Macs bought in the Apple Stores are to customers who have not owned a Mac before. I think Apple is working to increase that percentage.
 
ALTF4
Posts: 1154
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:01 pm

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Thanks for the replies, Klaus and Ken.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 39):

When you're looking at Apple's strategy, they don't even aim at such a position. They gladly leave the large low- to no-margin segments of the respective markets to the competition – that still gets them a comfortably high profit share of the market but keeps the anti-trust authorities off their back by allowing plenty of competitors fighting over the table scraps.

Going forward, though - it seems to be that Apple, whether they can help it or not, might start emerging as a more prominent player in the market. Pure speculation on my part, but the trends seem to be going that way, and with the cost of hardware forever dropping, and the prices of Apple's products dropping (at least the MBP, based on my memory), the platform will look more and more appealing to people.

Plus, 70% of college freshman have Macs now. I don't think many of them will switch back for personal use. That is almost a complete role-reversal between Apple and Microsoft in that segment. As that age group grows and moves on to later in life, those numbers will only increase.

Sure, Microsoft still reigns in the business world, and although Apple has taken a few shots at that, does not seem to care a whole lot about the enterprise environment. But then again, enterprise users are not going to be the ones buying the products through the app store or any other delivery method. The enterprise itself will most likely directly deal with the developer and form their own contract.

So, as Microsoft got hit with anti-trust issues over the inclusion of a web browser, I, personally, think that in future years*, as the Apple app store becomes the preffered delivery method, they could be concerned about similar issues as their market share increases. If they actually do grow that much though, they'll have a number of other issues to face, as well.

All of that is just my gut feeling - you both made some good points, and could be more correct than I am. I'm no economicist by any stretch of the imagination, so I suppose one should buy all the salt in the local store and take what I say with that.  

* Not 2 or 3 years, but 8 or 10. Of course, in a decade, so much else can change that this could be moot.

[Edited 2010-10-25 11:11:17]

[Edited 2010-10-25 12:06:40]
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:19 pm

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 35):
Macs are relatively insecure but it does not matter, as relatively speaking not many are in use.

Oh, that old chestnut again!  

We could argue endlessly about theoretical threats (particularly about vulnerabilities in Unix services hardly any layman ever activates), and that discussion is in fact sensible among developers and especially with the manufacturers.

But the simple fact remains: If a normal user buys a computer, he or she will face a massivly higher actual risk if that computer is a Windows PC relative to a Mac.

I keep telling absolutely everyone – including Mac users – to be extremely careful about handling software or data from potentially dubious sources, since the users' caution is one of the strongest lines of defense in any case.

But spreading the notion that Macs actually posed greater risks to their users than Windows PCs is simply inexcusable – that is totally wrong and grossly misleading.

Both theoretical vulnerabilities and concrete threats are relevant – but for an actual user, recognizing the difference between the two is in fact crucial.

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 35):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 25):
Had I built a bunch of PCs over the years (of course I could not have had my two portable machines in that case), I would have wasted a whole lot of time and work on them, without any benefit whatsoever, probably at greater risk of defects than I've actually had.

Depends on if you know what you are doing or not, quite frankly.

Not really. The PC would have come out more expensive in the end, and/or lower-quality, depending on how I went about it.

Research, acquisition, assembly (with debugging), software installation (with debugging) and validation of reliable functionality don't come for free – I don't see how I could have justified the cost in time and lost work plus carrying almost the entire warranty risk (again including loss of work) and still come out ahead. This is my livelihood, not my hobby.

Macs are not cheap. But they're usually worth their price. One of the reasons being the almost trivial installation and/or migration with zero or minimal loss of time (depending on how you're doing it).

There are PC manufacturers who offer generally comparable machines (just not a comparable system on top of it). But also at similar prices. They know what they're doing.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:32 pm

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 41):
Going forward, though - it seems to be that Apple, whether they can help it or not, might start emerging as a more prominent player in the market. Pure speculation on my part, but the trends seem to be going that way, and with the cost of hardware forever dropping, and the prices of Apple's products dropping (at least the MBP, based on my memory), the platform will look more and more appealing to people.

I think the price gap between low-grade PCs and Macs has still increased since the low-end prices have dropped even more than the high end (both at Apple and at the PC competition).

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 41):
Plus, 70% of college freshman have Macs now. I don't think many of them will switch back for personal use. That is almost a complete role-reversal between Apple and Microsoft in that segment. As that age group grows and moves on to later in life, those numbers will only increase.

Sure – but what's the percentage of college-educated people in the US?

Apple will still remain one of the largest but not an overwhelming market player - at least not in the PC space.

And even if they would, they would have to have a monopoly and actually abuse that position before an intervention would be warranted. I'm pretty sure Jobs is acutely aware of these risks – in various aspects his strategy seems to be designed to avoid that risk specifically.
 
ALTF4
Posts: 1154
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:01 pm

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:51 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 42):
Oh, that old chestnut again!

The fact of the matter is, I work in the information security field. I have seen and worked with non-public vulnerabilities in OS X that were reported to Apple and took way, way too long to be fixed. If those had become public and stuck in a tool such as Metasploit for the masses to use, you'd want to stay the hell away from a public network until it was fixed, or you knew how to fix it yourself.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 42):
But the simple fact remains: If a normal user buys a computer, he or she will face a massivly higher actual risk if that computer is a Windows PC relative to a Mac.

Currently. Wouldn't it be stupid to only worry about today, though? People tout Macs as computers that last and don't give out a day after their warranty expires. They are thinking ahead - long-term the sticker shock settles down since they last longer than the disposable computers. Why should we suddenly ignore the future when it comes to the downsides?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 42):
I keep telling absolutely everyone – including Mac users – to be extremely careful about handling software or data from potentially dubious sources, since the users' caution is one of the strongest lines of defense in any case.

Certainly this, without a doubt, is the biggest factor. I think we can both agree on that.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 42):
But spreading the notion that Macs actually posed greater risks to their users than Windows PCs is simply inexcusable – that is totally wrong and grossly misleading.

No, not really. Are you going to get a virus today? No, probably not. Apple has an ever-growing market share though. The bigger they grow, the more likely it is that there will be security issues with OS X. Suddenly "I don't need virus protection" becomes untrue, except for those that know what they are doing on a computer and what to stay away from, etc. Quite frankly, though, those people don't need virus protection on Windows, either. I don't run AV on my PC or my Mac and I have zero issues.

You can try to brush the issue under the rug, but when a large portion of the industry concurs on an issue such as this, there has to be weight to the matter. And yes, quite a few of us do use Macs - we're just wary of the threat that really is there.
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
 
ALTF4
Posts: 1154
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:01 pm

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:00 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 43):
Sure – but what's the percentage of college-educated people in the US?

We're talking about college freshman - certainly some of them drop out, so college-educated (as in, graduated) is not totally correct.

70% of U.S. High Schoolers went on to college.

70% of 70% is 49% (I hope I did my math right!). Take into account the certainty of there being more than 1% of the 30% that did not go to college having a Mac, and there you go, Apple has the majority. That is not even counting Linux, which there are quite a few geek-types using Linux only, so Apple may well already have the majority, counting college freshman only. Sure, that is still not a monopoly, but I don't think it is as small as you are trying to make it appear.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 43):
Apple will still remain one of the largest but not an overwhelming market player - at least not in the PC space.

If counted as PC hardware manufacturor, they are certainly the largest for college-age kids, by far.

Like I said, I don't see many of these people who have a Mac right now switching back to PCs. I know I am singling out that group and totally ignoring their parents, grandparents, etc - but as time rolls on and they don't switch back to PCs, the market share is only going up.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 43):
And even if they would, they would have to have a monopoly and actually abuse that position before an intervention would be warranted. I'm pretty sure Jobs is acutely aware of these risks – in various aspects his strategy seems to be designed to avoid that risk specifically.

Yes, that is correct. Jobs is a brilliant man, and I hope they don't ever get into anti-trust issues. It just seems, to me, so easy to cross that line that they need to think about that.

Notice that all this time, I never said they will face issues, but rather "I'm wondering if" or "There is a possibility of" or "they need to be wary of...", etc.

I think what I am saying is totally correct.

[Edited 2010-10-25 12:04:02]
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
 
Ken777
Posts: 9020
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:02 pm

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 41):
Going forward, though - it seems to be that Apple, whether they can help it or not, might start emerging as a more prominent player in the market.

Apple has already emerged as a more prominent player in their various markets - which is why they are more valuable than any other tech company in the country - second to Exxon in market cap.

But their growth has been based on exceeding consumer expectations.

I think MS got a bit too full of themselves. They certainly captured the "cheapest computer possible" corporate sector and maybe thought that they would always have the consumer market because people would want the same computers at home as they do at work.

Apple, on the other hand, has invested heavily in the consumer since Steve Jobs returned. Look at the first iMac and consider it the first major decision after his return. Actually you can look at the entire Mac line today and only see one form (MacPro) that is not designed for the consumer.

Apple then brought in the first iPod and, after delivering iTunes For Windows, that took off like a rocket. And that is when Apple's future was pretty well set. Consumers respond to the heavy investments Apple makes in design (at all levels) and as long as Apple maintains that standard they will grow.

And drag the corporate world along. How many companies now have iOS apps for their customers? Each company with an iOS app for customers had to buy at least one Mac.

As long as Apple relies of consumers' decisions to grow their company I believe that they will be fine in the legal environment.
 
User avatar
cpd
Posts: 4548
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:53 pm

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 38):
I could be making a bigger deal out of it than it really is, but I just think that the app store for OS X (separate from the iOS app store) will really take off

What exactly will populate this "App Store"? I can't imagine something like an Adobe CS5 Master Collection being delivered via this method online, it has multiple DVDs and takes 1 hour to install! That's too much bandwidth which will cost a fortune.

On the face of it, I'm also not impressed by the launch-pad idea, and I fail to see exactly how innovative that is. Back when I was at school so many years ago, the Macintosh Performas using PowerPC chips had a "launch pad" style application sitting over the top of Mac OS 8. So the one in Lion is hardly revolutionary, or worth all the attention it is getting from some quarters.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 36):
I can't really understand why is a HDD not accessible by Windows quite well readable by Linux (Mandriva and Ubuntu).

Lacie uses a Linux filesystem (can't remember the name of it). Ubuntu reads it perfectly, Windows doesn't without some addons.
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 2602
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:07 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 47):
Lacie uses a Linux filesystem (can't remember the name of it). Ubuntu reads it perfectly, Windows doesn't without some addons.

OK, I guess I misunderstood you. I'm using Linux to recover data from crashed NTFS HDD's that Windows isn't even able to detect.
310, 319, 320, 321, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, Saab 340, YAK40
 
ALTF4
Posts: 1154
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:01 pm

RE: I Took A Long Sip From The Apple Kool-aid

Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:49 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 47):
What exactly will populate this "App Store"? I can't imagine something like an Adobe CS5 Master Collection being delivered via this method online, it has multiple DVDs and takes 1 hour to install! That's too much bandwidth which will cost a fortune.

Probably mainly some smaller apps and a lot of free ones, assuming Apple allows free ones for, well, free. There are plenty of open source applications that could greatly benefit from the publicity of being in the app store, plus having the compiled versions handled and updated via the app store, so no more browsing an SVN repository and compiling yourself. I wonder how many FOSS projects will adapt to the app store...

I'm sure Adobe won't be putting apps in there, save for acrobat reader and flash (hmm, I wonder if Apple will allow that?)
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 39 guests