soon7x7
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MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:22 pm

Once again...during the worst of fiscal times, the New York's MTA has approved the 3rd fare increase in three years with another planned for 2013. This while services were slashed two months ago, equipment not being maintained, employees lay ed off while its top management continue to bring home six digit incomes and award themselves bloated bonuses. Reaction by the mayor?...Ho hum!....snnnnrrrrr!...imagine, $12.00 to cross the Verrazano bridge, then $8.00 to cross the next one ,the piece of s-it, two laned pot-holed Goethals. $20.00 in ten minutes of driving...Then you get to I-95, more toll increases...To drive from Long Island to TEB (Teterboro) or NWR (Newark), a 30 mile drive = $30 in tolls. New York organized crime is still apparently in full swing. The names have just been changed to protect the "innocent".            
 
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n229nw
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:43 pm

The New York subway is an embarrassment to a potentially great city. On the weekend, the trains routinely run every 15 minutes or less in the "city that never sleeps" (they are supposed to run every 10 minutes, but 15 is what they actually do on most lines, and I've often waited well over 20, last weekend I waited 30 minutes for an N train...) and when they do come they are all so unpredictably rerouted that you have to leave an extra half hour for what should be a 15 minute trip. I would far rather they just closed a line for a couple of straight weeks or replaced the (totally unreliable anyway) night "service" with buses for a while in order to just #$^%$ finish their maintenance projects in one shot than play games rerouting the entire system every weekend and night, and often during non-rush-hours of the day too. The new R160s, which don't offer much great technology to the customer besides "next stop" displays that many other subways have had for over a decade, have those diplays out of order about half the time, showing random stops as the next stop. The trains spend as much time sitting in tunnels or inching along as running at normal speed.

The whole thing is just sad. If they took the fare increases and actually did something with them to quickly improve the system, I wouldn't object, but raising fares to operate the crap they do now is pretty pathetic.

[Edited 2010-10-27 07:46:02]
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TWFirst
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:23 pm

Quoting n229nw (Reply 1):
The New York subway is an embarrassment to a potentially great city.

An 'embarrassment'?!? To a POTENTIALLY great city?? Get a grip! Our subway system is the only one in the world that runs 24 hours. It takes a hell of a lot of maintenance and construction and gobs of money to modernize a 100 year old system. And our fares are cheaper than most major world cities... like London for example. I'm not saying the MTA is perfect and can't be managed better, but the type of beyotching you are doing shows a total lack of perspective.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
comorin
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:50 pm

For those of us who waited in the rush hour sauna at Wall Street for the #6 in the bad old days, we think what we have now is great!

Reasons:

1. Fares are ridiculously cheap - no zone system like everywhere else. My $2.25 trip from 77th St to 59th St (2 stops) subsidizes someone traveling 25 miles from Coney Island to the Bronx. You're welcome.

2. Clean, bright trains with reliable a/c. As clean as humanly possible in NYC.

3. Free transfers to buses.

4. A train every 4 minutes on the 4,5,6 lines. Impressive.

5. 24 hour service.

Obviously my experience with the MTA is very different from the OP's experience. It cannot be a great system until fares go up to reflect costs and fund new investment.

The head of the MTA is the same brilliant guy who headed the London Underground. That's why we're getting those station signs with train arrivals. All that's missing is 'Mind the Gap" !
 
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STT757
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:05 pm

Good news:

New Fulton Street Transit center, including underground connector to World Trade Center PATH station and the World Financial Center.

Second Avenue Subway under construction

7 train extension

new South Ferry Station, completed,
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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n229nw
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:57 pm

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 2):
An 'embarrassment'?!?

Yeah, ask anyone who visits from a city with a subway that works...

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 2):
Our subway system is the only one in the world that runs 24 hours.

First of all,not quite true. Berlin also runs all night (like NY it is only some lines), at least on the weekends. Tokyo I think is moving in this direction. I'm sure there are others.

Second, I'd give this up (replaced by good night buses, which in many cities run more frequently and efficiently than the night trains in NY anyway) if the system actually really worked on weekends and between 10am and 3pm on more lines...

Quoting comorin (Reply 3):
A train every 4 minutes on the 4,5,6 lines. Impressive.

Impressive? Many lines in Moscow, Paris, etc. have trains every 90 seconds or less, and in some places even off hours...On the Piccadilly line in London trains run about every 1-3 minutes most of the day and through to after midnight in central areas, etc. etc. 4 minutes is not vaguely impressive.

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 2):
It takes a hell of a lot of maintenance and construction and gobs of money to modernize a 100 year old system.

Sure, but talk about Perspective? Look at Berlin, Paris, etc. Systems as old or older in original infrastructure but investment was made and forward-looking decisions taken, and the current operations, technology, and reliability blow NY so far out of the water it isn't even funny. When the US realizes that keeping the subway working actually helps a city's economy even if it seems to run at a loss directly, then we'll be getting somewhere...

I suppose if your only comparative perspective is in the US, then NY comes off ok. But that's not saying much...

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 2):
total lack of perspective.

On the contrary, it is precisely because I love public transportation and have lived car-free for long periods in many cities that it bothers me so much. NY is by far the worst run, least reliable system I've encountered. It even beats the badness of London Transport in the 90s, which is hard. I'll give NY this: they can handle the snow pretty well. I've actually been impressed by how quickly they slap those chains on the bus wheels and keep them moving.

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 2):
And our fares are cheaper than most major world cities... l

And that is also true, at least for many cities. I guess you get what you pay for.  
Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):

Second Avenue Subway under construction

And I'll believe that when I (or my great-grandchildren) see it finished...

[Edited 2010-10-27 09:58:44]
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DocLightning
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:09 pm

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 2):

An 'embarrassment'?!? To a POTENTIALLY great city?? Get a grip! Our subway system is the only one in the world that runs 24 hours.

That is the ONLY advantage over other systems. The ONLY ONE.

And I think it's a mistake on their part. They should shut it down for a few hours. The vast majority of subway routes run under streets, so a bus route on those streets would accomplish the same thing between, say, 1AM and 4AM when there's no traffic.

The system is dirty, dingy, unreliable, there is no next-train system except on one line (when it works). The connectivity is poor. There has been no expansion in 60 years and the one new line they are building is poorly connected, woefully inadequate, not designed for expansion, and doesn't provide the big thing that is needed, which is cross-town service above the park.

When compared with London's Underground, which is one of the best systems in the world, the NYC Subway is a tragic joke.
-Doc Lightning-

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Mir
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:22 pm

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 2):
And our fares are cheaper than most major world cities... like London for example.

For the sake of comparison, here are the fares for the 10 busiest subway systems in the world. For those that have zoned fares, I based it on a 10 mile trip (which is about the same distance as from the outer boroughs into Midtown or Lower Manhattan).

Tokyo: $3.30 (zoned fare)
Moscow: $0.85 flat fare ($0.78 if you buy 10 at a time).
Seoul: $1.05 (zoned fare)
New York: $2.25 flat fare ($2.05 if you buy 10 at a time)
Paris: $2.20 flat fare ($1.60 if you buy 10 at a time).
Beijing: $0.30 flat fare
Mexico City: $0.25 flat fare
Hong Kong: $1.95 (zoned fare)
Shanghai: $0.90 (zoned fare)
London: $6.00 (zoned fare)

Yes, New York is less expensive than London. But really, what city isn't? I'm not expecting to compete with Mexico City's fares, but fares are not the MTA's real problem - costs are. The unions are out of control, the management is out of control, there's hideous waste, etc. And of course the state isn't helping out.

I know that many of those problems aren't going to be overcome easily, so I'm not entirely averse to a fare increase. But if you're going to increase fares, don't do it at the expense of your most frequent riders. The MTA is hitting buyers of monthly passes with a 17% increase, while only increasing weekly passes by 7.5% and not increasing single fares at all. What were they smoking that made them think that was a reasonable idea? Either make it an even increase across the board (best choice), or gouge the infrequent riders and tourists if you're going to gouge anyone. Don't make the most needy residents suffer more than everyone else.

Quoting comorin (Reply 3):
That's why we're getting those station signs with train arrivals.

And on the subject of wasting money: we've had these in my station for at least three years now. Until six months ago, all they did was tell you what time it was. Now they announce that a train is arriving (thanks, I can see that). They also spell out whatever it is that the horribly recorded voice is saying over the PA (thanks, but I can hear that). I'm still waiting for them to tell me how long it will be before the next train comes. I'm sure they made some contractor a lot of money, though.  

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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n229nw
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:14 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
And on the subject of wasting money: we've had these in my station for at least three years now. Until six months ago, all they did was tell you what time it was. Now they announce that a train is arriving (thanks, I can see that). They also spell out whatever it is that the horribly recorded voice is saying over the PA (thanks, but I can hear that). I'm still waiting for them to tell me how long it will be before the next train comes. I'm sure they made some contractor a lot of money, though.

Yeah, they actually have got them working now on some of the the IRT lines, 1, 4, 6 etc. But only in stations with only one line arriving. Of course, as in everything the MTA does, they've chosen the most USELESS way to do it. It really doesn't help me to know when the next two 1 trains are coming, since they are going the same place and I have no choice anyway. (And by the way, the boards are wrong a LOT, ghost trains that disappear, etc., even in the simple places they have them) On the other hand, where there are multiple possible routes, the boards would actually be extremely helpful. If I'm entering W4th St. and there are two platforms far from each other, but many trains going the same places, it would actually help to know on which platform to wait for the next train. Or if I'm standing in Queens at Roosevelt avenue, and I know that I can take an F coming right now, but the next E is going to take half an hour, then I know I will take the F to 63rd st. and walk to 55th and Lex instead of waiting for the E to take me to 53rd and Lex, etc etc. Now THAT would actually be useful--but that might happen in 20 years.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
That is the ONLY advantage over other systems. The ONLY ONE.

And I think it's a mistake on their part. They should shut it down for a few hours. The vast majority of subway routes run under streets, so a bus route on those streets would accomplish the same thing between, say, 1AM and 4AM when there's no traffic.

That's what I was saying. They could stop with the constant rerouting of trains and trains that go 5 mph because there are workmen in the tunnel 24/7 and actually make the system WORK the rest of the time. I'd rather have a reliable system sometimes than crap all the time.
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soon7x7
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:46 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
Don't make the most needy residents suffer more than everyone else.


Seems to be the *new American way*.

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
I'm sure they made some contractor a lot of money, though.


Bingo!...59th street bridge took three years to build and ten years to repave. The Long Islands Southern State Parkway has placed every 500 feet or so "traffic cameras" that are patched into the sign network on the SSP ($15,000,000 project) that inform you "traffic moving well" while you sit under the sign for five minutes in rubbernecking traffic or conversely posts delays ahead between exits# & exits# while you breeze through with no delays...(rarely). All the technology and expense is nice if alternatives existed but none do so why go to the expense of announcing the misery we drivers are already anticipating. Union contracts!...that's what its all about...All for deals made in the upstairs offices by the bloated fat cats. The Mayor says nothing,...the governor,...same thing...why am I surprised.   
 
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DocLightning
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:04 pm

Quoting comorin (Reply 3):
That's why we're getting those station signs with train arrivals.

   You're getting what? Yes, you keep sipping that Kool-Aid.

When I moved to NYC in 2005, they promised that those station signs with train arrivals would be coming any minute. In 2008 they finally started working on the L line only. And then they stopped working. They finally had them running by the time I left in July.

It is now approaching 2011 and they STILL haven't installed them on a single line other than the L.

Oh yes, they'll have them. While anyone alive today will still be alive once they're operating system-wide is a completely different question, but at some point in the future, they'll have them.

The biggest problem the MTA has is the same one SF has: the union. I know of no other mass-transit systems in which there have to be two conductors per train. But the TWU makes it sound like passengers will die if they reduce to one-person train operation, because apparently driving the train AND opening/closing the doors is just too much work.

Combined with other union rules, absurd benefits/compensation packages, and just about the worst hiring practices on the planet (do they go looking for employees with the worst possible attitude?), there's no way the MTA can be efficient or functional.
-Doc Lightning-

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comorin
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:27 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
uoting comorin (Reply 3):
That's why we're getting those station signs with train arrivals.

You're getting what? Yes, you keep sipping that Kool-Aid.

Methinks it's been a while since you've been in our fair City   The signs are in place now and work beautifully. It makes a big difference to know when the next train is coming. I love it.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
The system is dirty, dingy, unreliable,

The trains are relatively clean and new. The stations are dingy and rat infested. The rats now clamber on to the platform too. Live and let live, I guess.

Quoting n229nw (Reply 5):
Quoting comorin (Reply 3):
A train every 4 minutes on the 4,5,6 lines. Impressive.

Impressive? Many lines in Moscow, Paris, etc. have trains every 90 seconds or less, and in some places even off hours...On the Piccadilly line in London trains run about every 1-3 minutes most of the day and through to after midnight in central areas, etc. etc. 4 minutes is not vaguely impressive.

Yes impressive. We're talking 4 minutes average. It's back-to-back during rush hours and 2 minutes usually. I've spent a lot of time on the District and Circle Line as well as the Piccadilly Line. The 4,5 6 is just as good except we have air conditioning and it's a LOT cheaper (4 GBP for Zone 1). Their trains and escalators break down just as often as ours. Both are very old systems, and work remarkably well considering the crumbling legacy infrastructure.

How did you come up with the 90-second number?
 
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n229nw
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:30 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
do they go looking for employees with the worst possible attitude?

Tell me about it. The people whose only job it is to close the doors: I've seen cases where they close it on an old lady who was the only person getting on the train...Or they announce "stand clear of the doors" when they first open them, before anyone has even gotten off, and then just close them with no warning at a random time later. No excuses.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
It is now approaching 2011 and they STILL haven't installed them on a single line other than the L.

As several posts here have pointed out, they do have them on several lines now. But while they're sometimes nice psychologically (I'm glad you love them, Comorin) they have yet to put them somewhere useful. (see my above post)

Quoting comorin (Reply 11):
Yes impressive. We're talking 4 minutes average. It's back-to-back during rush hours and 2 minutes usually. I've spent a lot of time on the District and Circle Line as well as the Piccadilly Line. The 4,5 6 is just as good except we have air conditioning and it's a LOT cheaper (4 GBP for Zone 1). Their trains and escalators break down just as often as ours. Both are very old systems, and work remarkably well considering the crumbling legacy infrastructure.

Only at rush hour. Off hours or especially on the weekend your average wait is much longer on the 4,5,6 than on the Piccadilly line(or for that matter the Victoria and Central lines too, and that's only London). Anyway, I do take the 4,5,6 often, and while I agree they are the most frequent and reliable lines, followed by the the 1,2,3, they are hardly representative. (The Q is reliable usually, but less frequent, the 7 is frequent but unreliable as the endless construction means you are often sitting on the track waiting...the E has gotten better but is rerouted every weekend until god knows when--not that they'd even TELL you that kind of information in advance. The other lines, well, god help you. I hear the L is good, but I barely even take it. Waiting for the D in the Bronx at 7:00 pm you might be forgiven for thinking you are on an abandoned line sometimes...)

By the way, the District and Circle lines are the worst run lines outside of NYC that I've ever dealth with (well, and the Hammersmith and City), so that isn't the best comparison...In fact, overall, I'd say London is the second worst-run system. Still, it has considerably improved over the last fifteen years.

Also, the fact that the legacy infrastructure is crumbling in NY (and London) is the fault of the administrators of those systems, governments that did not invest in maintenance and capital upgrades until it was WAAY too late, not the age itself. (Again, compare Paris and Berlin, and for that matter, Boston, which are all systems as old or older. No comparable infrastructure problems.)

Quoting comorin (Reply 11):
How did you come up with the 90-second number?

Well, many places. I have a bunch of technical books on different systems. But you can find some of the info freely available online too. For example:

from http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/mos/moskva.htm

The Moscow Metro operates between 6:00 and 1:00 and about 8 million people use the system every day. Frequency of trains is 90 seconds during rush hours and 2-4 minutes during the rest of the day. 10 minutes headway after midnight.

When I was in Moscow, I don't think I ever waited more than 2 minutes for a train, and usually much less (though I'm sure on some of the less busy lines late at night one could wait up to ten minutes occasionally). On the busy lines it was practically a conveyor belt with one train arriving as the previous one left. Weekends too.

Paris has actually gotten less frequent over the last twenty years on some lines (like the 9) but it used to be 85-90 second headways on many lines...and still is or will be again on others. E.g. 85 second headways on line 14.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_M%C3%A9tro_Line_14

One fundamental problem with New York is bad design from the start. Constantly merging lines on trunk routes means constant delays while you wait for other trains. One train being a minute late can have an enormous knock-on effect of delays...

[Edited 2010-10-27 17:35:53]
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planeguy727
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:35 am

Here's my take - as a daily rider...

There needs to be a better system to collect fares. Buses routinely have broken collection points and thus no rider pays. Drivers are also notorious for letting people on without paying.

Then you have people hopping over the turn-styles in the subways stations. And with the closing of so many service agent booths I've noticed an increase.

If there was better collection of fares then a part of the issue would be addressed.

I think that we actually get a lot for our money. It may not be the prettiest, or the cleanest, but it is rather safe, generally reliable, acceptably clean, and can take you quite a distance for very little money. And while people in my world complain about the increase in an unlimited monthly card, the potential value is amazing.
I want to live in an old and converted 727...
 
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n229nw
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:44 am

Quoting planeguy727 (Reply 13):
There needs to be a better system to collect fares.

Once again, horrendous lack of forethought in so many ways. The fact that it sometimes takes ten swipes to make it work is largely a function of age, but there are plenty of things that are just bad planning. Just one example: all metrocards look the same. You can't tell if it is monthly pass or a $10 ticket. You need to mark all your tickets to keep track of them. If monthly (and weekly) passes looked different, for example, it would open up huge potential for speeding things up. You could get on the bus and just show the driver, which would make for a massive increase in the average speed of buses, for example. You wouldn't need to buy a ticket outside on the new Select Bus Service either, but could just show an inspector the pass, and so on.
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VonRichtofen
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:30 am

Damn I'm going to New York as a tourist for the first time in a couple of weeks and was looking forward to using the subway (I'm a bit of a transit geek too). This thread isn't filling me with confidence lol!!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:57 am

Quoting n229nw (Reply 12):

By the way, the District and Circle lines are the worst run lines outside of NYC that I've ever dealth with (well, and the Hammersmith and City), so that isn't the best comparison...In fact, overall, I'd say London is the second worst-run system. Still, it has considerably improved over the last fifteen years.

I've extensively used New York's, DC's, London's, Paris's, Madrid's, and Barcelona's and London's is by far the best overall system in my opinion.
-Doc Lightning-

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Mir
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:10 am

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 15):
Damn I'm going to New York as a tourist for the first time in a couple of weeks and was looking forward to using the subway (I'm a bit of a transit geek too). This thread isn't filling me with confidence lol!!

It does the job, and it's safe. But it's very basic, so don't expect any frills. The argument is not that it's a bad system, it's that it's overpriced for what it is.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
I've extensively used New York's, DC's, London's, Paris's, Madrid's, and Barcelona's and London's is by far the best overall system in my opinion.

I'd easily put Paris over London - fewer breakdowns and much better value.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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fca767
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:38 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
London: $6.00 (zoned fare)

$6, No Try $10 and that's just for the first 2 zones out of 6.

UK is so expensive, take this, I wanted to go 50 miles, so I looked at prices of 2 train departure points on the same line, one stop (3 minute train ride) would be the difference of $40 just because I booked from that station to the destination 50 miles away.

so that's $80 instead of $40 for the sake of a minute train ride to the next station.
 
corinthians
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:10 pm

I’ve been living in NYC for about 11 years and I’ve taken the subway more or less everyday since I’ve been here. When I first came, it was efficient, but somewhat dingy. It got a lot better up until about three years ago. At that point, I would have said the subway system was really well-run. New trains, improving stations, few delays, efficient construction, employees were more helpful, etc. When they did the first round of service cuts and rate hikes about two years ago, the system progressively started going downhill. It’s now pretty bad and almost embarrassing. It’s noticeably worse in terms of cleanliness, scheduling, construction and employee attitudes. The E-Train, which I use daily, has become especially bad. The 7 used to be the most efficient back in the day (it always got the best “grades”), but it’s not anymore. I’ll agree that the 4, 5 and 6 lines are probably the best run and still in good shape.

And now we’re looking at even greater transit hikes for lousier service? I take the LIRR from Bayside everyday. Service has also gotten worse and more unreliable the last few years. They’ve already cut the weekend service to once an hour. I don’t know why because the Port Washington branch is usually pretty busy, even on the weekends. So…I’m expected to pay more for less service now? And I have to buy a more expensive Metrocard on top of this. It’s getting out of control.

And for those who say London’s system is one of the best in the world, what on earth are you guys smoking? It’s brutal. Much worse than NYC’s (and that says a lot). It’s dirty, dingy, EXPENSIVE, slow and always has troubles. I don’t even think they have express trains like the MTA does. I travel to London pretty often and I haven’t seen much improvement in the system there over the years. I’d say that Paris’ is much better, too.
 
FlyKev
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:25 pm

I experienced the NY subway a few years back; and to be honest; I preferred it over the London Underground anytime.
yes, there are delays but I always found a line to take me close to my destination and it was appreciated at 2am to be able to just get a subway train back; versus a slow and less safe feeling nightbus home.
Im not sure how some of you can love the underground so much; its stiflingly hot (onboard and on the platforms), expensive, prone to strikes and almost every weekend almost unusable.
The Paris Metro I have found to be a very nice system; The T-Bana in Stockholm was very enjoyable and I also liked the "El" in Chicago.
As for BART in San Francisco; I found paying for it less fun than riding it.
Overall though the New York subway is however fantastic value for what it is and I personally liked using it. Whether that would be the same if I had to use it on a daily basis but right now I am not in a position to find out.

Kev.
The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only
 
Yellowstone
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:50 pm

Quoting fca767 (Reply 18):
$6, No Try $10 and that's just for the first 2 zones out of 6.

Dunno which subway system you're looking at - a ride in zones 1 and 2 is 2 pounds 30. A zone 1 to zone 4 ride (about 10 miles) is 3 pounds 10, or about 5.00 USD.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
planeguy727
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:16 pm

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 15):
Damn I'm going to New York as a tourist for the first time in a couple of weeks and was looking forward to using the subway (I'm a bit of a transit geek too). This thread isn't filling me with confidence lol!!

Never fear - the NYC locals (at least on a.net) will be glad to help out.
I want to live in an old and converted 727...
 
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fca767
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:06 pm

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 21):
Dunno which subway system you're looking at - a ride in zones 1 and 2 is 2 pounds 30. A zone 1 to zone 4 ride (about 10 miles) is 3 pounds 10, or about 5.00 USD.

On the London Tube, as I've just bought a ticket for a trip for November, the One way Ticket in zone 1 and 2 for Off peak is £5.60, and at Peak is £7.20 one way.
 
Yellowstone
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:29 pm

Quoting fca767 (Reply 23):
On the London Tube, as I've just bought a ticket for a trip for November, the One way Ticket in zone 1 and 2 for Off peak is £5.60, and at Peak is £7.20 one way.

That's for a day pass, not for a single ride.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:30 pm

Quoting FlyKev (Reply 20):

As for BART in San Francisco; I found paying for it less fun than riding it.

BART can't be fairly compared to the subway. It's more like the LIRR/Metro North. It's regional commuter rail, not a subway.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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corinthians
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:07 am

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 15):
Damn I'm going to New York as a tourist for the first time in a couple of weeks and was looking forward to using the subway (I'm a bit of a transit geek too). This thread isn't filling me with confidence lol!!

I actually grew up close to where you live. When you coming to town? If you have time, we should go for a beer. Always good to meet a fellow Albertan far away from home.
 
hoons90
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:01 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
I've extensively used New York's, DC's, London's, Paris's, Madrid's, and Barcelona's and London's is by far the best overall system in my opinion.

Agreed. Not many systems do this:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/hl7534/IMG_4515-1.jpg

Although I'd say that Seoul and Tokyo have much better systems compared to London, in almost every aspect imaginable. London's Underground is still my favorite system outside of Asia.

It's a shame to hear that the NYC subway has gone downhill since I last used it in June 2009.
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
Mir
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:29 pm

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 27):
Not many systems do this:

Say what you want about the NYC subway, but at least you very rarely see lines being shut down due to mechanical problems. Perhaps rerouted, but not shut entirely. And that makes those sort of messages unnecessary.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
soon7x7
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:58 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 28):
Say what you want about the NYC subway, but at least you very rarely see lines being shut down due to mechanical problems. Perhaps rerouted, but not shut entirely. And that makes those sort of messages unnecessary


Not so...google "NYC subway shutdowns",...while in the last two weeks another MTA nightmare, the LIRR (one that consistently runs late and is filthy) has been shutting down lines and major junctions warning commuters that they must expect massive delays and or find another way to go to work...NICE!
When I worked in Manhattan the subways were so bad, regardless of locations of client meetings, I hoofed it...it was much easier.
 
corinthians
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:23 pm

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 29):
Not so...google "NYC subway shutdowns",...while in the last two weeks another MTA nightmare, the LIRR (one that consistently runs late and is filthy) has been shutting down lines and major junctions warning commuters that they must expect massive delays and or find another way to go to work...NICE!
When I worked in Manhattan the subways were so bad, regardless of locations of client meetings, I hoofed it...it was much easier.

No, you will not see an entire line shut down. As Mir said, it will be re-routed at worst.

As for the LIRR being filthy, I take it everyday. I complain about the service all the time, but filthiness has never been an issue. It’s generally really clean.

And the Jamaica crossover project, which I’m assuming you’re talking about, happened last weekend and will happen next weekend. It’s inconvenient, but the MTA, to their credit and they usually don’t deserve any, went out of their way to warn people about the delays it will cause. They do not plan to do construction during the weekdays.
 
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fca767
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:03 pm

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 24):
That's for a day pass, not for a single ride

Oops! I hope I haven't been buying new tickets on the way back, or I think I pressed Return, and only used it to 1 station...I might try doing a few next time lol
Or did I do a return at £3.60

[Edited 2010-10-29 08:04:22]
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:38 pm

I think the Mumbai Local Train system is probably the cheapest in the world. It cost me 8 INR to go halfway up and down Mumbai. I remember standing at a station once and in the span of maybe 10 mins, easily 15 trains came and went.
 
B747-4U3
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:50 pm

Quoting comorin (Reply 11):

Quoting n229nw (Reply 5):
Quoting comorin (Reply 3):
A train every 4 minutes on the 4,5,6 lines. Impressive.

Impressive? Many lines in Moscow, Paris, etc. have trains every 90 seconds or less, and in some places even off hours...On the Piccadilly line in London trains run about every 1-3 minutes most of the day and through to after midnight in central areas, etc. etc. 4 minutes is not vaguely impressive.

Yes impressive. We're talking 4 minutes average. It's back-to-back during rush hours and 2 minutes usually. I've spent a lot of time on the District and Circle Line as well as the Piccadilly Line. The 4,5 6 is just as good except we have air conditioning and it's a LOT cheaper (4 GBP for Zone 1). Their trains and escalators break down just as often as ours. Both are very old systems, and work remarkably well considering the crumbling legacy infrastructure.

How did you come up with the 90-second number?

The Piccadilly line runs 24 tph (a 2-3 min headway).

The Victoria will be 32tph once the upgrade is complete (I think it is currently 28tph).

The Jubilee and Northern will both be 32tph once their upgrades are completed (Currently 24 and 28 respectively)

The Circle is 8tph. I think the District is 18tph, giving a 26tph service on the shared District / Circle part of the network.

For conventional signalling the realistic maximum is 28tph. Going automatic pushes that up to around 32tph. After then increases can only feasibly be made by cutting dwell times. The current 'conventional' automatic system on the Central line could theoretically support 36tph if dwell times at every station could be cut by 9 seconds.

Quoting n229nw (Reply 12):
By the way, the District and Circle lines are the worst run lines outside of NYC that I've ever dealth with (well, and the Hammersmith and City), so that isn't the best comparison...In fact, overall, I'd say London is the second worst-run system. Still, it has considerably improved over the last fifteen years.

The Circle line suffers because it shares it's track with several other lines which seem to be given priority when things go wrong ( it makes sense as many Circle line journeys can be completed on the other lines anyway). In essence when something goes wrong, the Circle is the first line to be reduced. At least it has now improved somewhat since it started terminating at Hammersmith (trains are no longer delaying each other by following each other in a Circle).

The District is normally pretty good through the central section. The problems come on the branches where services are less frequent, and disruption more noticeable. It suffers from being reliant on 1950s signalling technology. Until recently the District line trains were the most reliable on the Underground. I believe it is now the Piccadilly line which has the most reliable trains (by quite some margin too).

Edit: Forgot to mention, that the Underground was voted as the best Metro in Europe.

[Edited 2010-10-29 09:51:34]
 
Mir
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RE: MTA, New York Criminals In Suits

Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:07 pm

Had a great experience with the train countdown signs today: was waiting for the 1 at 14th St, and the signs were working as advertised (which was nice). But when the train arrived, the sign said that the next stop on the train would be Chambers St. (bypassing Houston St, where I was going). Frustrating, since there had been numerous express trains in the time I'd spent waiting, but I know these things happen, so it wasn't a big deal. Except that the sign was lying - the train wasn't running nonstop to Chambers. It was only by being suspicious of the sign and hovering around the door of the train to listen to the conductor's announcements that I found out what was really going on. Had I not done that, I would have missed a perfectly good train and had to wait for the next one.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 29):
the LIRR (one that consistently runs late and is filthy) has been shutting down lines and major junctions warning commuters that they must expect massive delays and or find another way to go to work...NICE!

As inconvenient as that is, it's planned maintenance work, and so I don't count it. You rarely see lines shut down because of sudden issues the way you do in other systems.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day

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