futurepilot16
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Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:33 am

Quote:
ATLANTA — Authorities say a driver enraged after his Mercedes was splattered with eggs on Halloween fatally shot a 17-year-old in the neck and leg as the teen tried to run away.

What do you guys think? I'm kinda split on the issue. A part of me wants to be evil and say the little punk got what he deserved, but on the other hand, no one, absolutely no one deserves to die from a prank, especially so violently,

I believe that the shooter should be charged with negligent homicide, because he shot at someone who was unarmed TEN times, not once or twice.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39952045/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
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richm
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:53 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
no one, absolutely no one deserves to die from a prank, especially so violently

I agree, I don't think anyone can justify killing or even shooting at someone just because they threw eggs at a car, despite the fact that throwing missiles at cars can have serious consequences.
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:04 am

He should be charged with second degree murder, no doubt.
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Maverick623
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:42 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
I believe that the shooter should be charged with negligent homicide, because he shot at someone who was unarmed TEN times, not once or twice.

Negligent implies that the shooter had a right to even pull a gun, which he clearly didn't in this case.

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 2):
second degree murder

Is the more likely charge. The shooter might be able to plea bargain down to voluntary manslaughter, but he's going away for at least 20 years.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:45 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
A part of me wants to be evil and say the little punk got what he deserved,

Are you serious? A good thump if the driver managed to catch him, but shooting the guy in the neck for throwing a few eggs in a Hallowe'en prank, even if it is a Mercedes?
 
Mudboy
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:46 am

I think that the DA will go for 2nd Degree knowing they cannot get it, with the intent get a Voluntary Manslaughter conviction by plea deal, and the guy will be out in 5-10 yrs, depending on GA. Some states you are required to do 80% of you sentence, before you can get parole.
Manslaughter is a better option, because the guy acted after being incited by the eggs being thrown at his car, Murder would be very hard to make stick. Also, we do not know this guys state of mind at the time, did he feel he was in fear of his life? I know many Iraqi war vets, that go everywhere with a gun, and throwing things at their vehicles, would not be the smartest thing to do, a few of them have a hard enough time, driving down the road.

I understand someone being enraged enough to want to beat the hell out of someone, after they threw eggs at their expensive ride, but it in no way justifies taking a life. Now, on the other side of that, when you put yourself in a situation like this, and it gets you killed, the blame STARTS with you, not the person that was going about their business, and his response to your actions, resulted in you losing your life.
 
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OA412
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:50 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
I'm kinda split on the issue. A part of me wants to be evil and say the little punk got what he deserved,

Strange that you would even say this. I can't see how anyone can even justify shooting a kid because he egged their car. Giving him a swift kick in the behind, sure, but murder is beyond comprehension.
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Maverick623
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:26 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
What do you guys think? I'm kinda split on the issue. A part of me wants to be evil and say the little punk got what he deserved,

The punk definitely deserved as ass-whooping. But death? That's a little outrageous.
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eaa3
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:42 am

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 5):

Manslaughter is a better option, because the guy acted after being incited by the eggs being thrown at his car, Murder would be very hard to make stick. Also, we do not know this guys state of mind at the time, did he feel he was in fear of his life? I know many Iraqi war vets, that go everywhere with a gun, and throwing things at their vehicles, would not be the smartest thing to do, a few of them have a hard enough time, driving down the road.

Why can throwing a egg be enough incitement to have any effect on a murder charge. Being very annoyed is no excuse for murder.
 
oly720man
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:01 am

Sad story. Its easy to be an armchair psychologist and second guess why someone thought it was a good idea to fire 10 shots because of this. Maybe a "falling down" moment a la Michael Douglas film, but some people have hair triggers and it doesn't take a lot for them to react in this way especially if the car was their pride and joy. And I presume that firing 10 shots emptied the gun so he just kept shooting until the bullets ran out.
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Mudboy
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:11 am

Quoting Eaa3 (Reply 8):
Why can throwing a egg be enough incitement to have any effect on a murder charge. Being very annoyed is no excuse for murder.

Voluntary manslaughter is the killing of a human being in which the offender had no prior intent to kill and acted during "the heat of passion", under circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_manslaughter

Murder is much harder to prove than Manslaughter, intent to kill would have to be established, and if the guy has a good lawyer, there are several factors he could throw in there.
I don't know if he has been charged yet, but I would put my money on a plea deal being made?
 
Mir
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:21 am

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 10):
Voluntary manslaughter is the killing of a human being in which the offender had no prior intent to kill and acted during "the heat of passion", under circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed.

Heat of passion applies here, but I'm not sure even a reasonable person would respond to his car being egged in that manner unless he thought his life was in danger.

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 10):
Murder is much harder to prove than Manslaughter, intent to kill would have to be established

He did shoot the kid ten times as the kid was running away. That pretty much says it all. 2nd degree murder is the more appropriate charge, IMO.

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WildcatYXU
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:25 pm

I'm split on the issue too. Killing someone over a prank doesn't have place in our society. OTOH throwing objects at passing cars goes far beyond prank. While the article doesn't say where was the car hit, an egg splattered over the windshield may lead to an accident. Especially if the driver is nervous or less experienced.
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iairallie
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:58 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
I believe that the shooter should be charged with negligent homicide, because he shot at someone who was unarmed TEN times, not once or twice.

And he shot at someone who was running away. This has nothing to do with negligent homicide that is for things like driving drunk and killing someone. This is straight up homicide.
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scbriml
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:29 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
A part of me wants to be evil and say the little punk got what he deserved

I hope it's a very small part and you don't own a gun.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 12):
OTOH throwing objects at passing cars goes far beyond prank.

It was an egg. If that's a big issue, let the police deal with the egg-thrower. Oh wait, they can't because an idiot with a gun killed him.
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Revelation
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:36 pm

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 10):
Murder is much harder to prove than Manslaughter, intent to kill would have to be established, and if the guy has a good lawyer, there are several factors he could throw in there.

And the prosecution would look at why the guy is driving around with a loaded gun (not sure if/why that would be legal) in the first place.
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UNCRDU
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:43 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):

He did shoot the kid ten times as the kid was running away.
Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
because he shot at someone who was unarmed TEN times, not once or twice.

For the record, the article says that he fired 10 shots, not that he shot the kid 10 times. He would have to be an excellent shot to have landed 10/10 of his shots on a moving target. More than likely the kid was struck a couple of times, not 10.

And yes, the shooter should be charged with murder.
 
crewchief32
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:44 pm

LOL, seems like Tivarius (!!!!!) learned the hard way to respect other peoples properties.

Would love to know how HIS fambly would've reacted if their ride would have been egged......
 
Mudboy
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:51 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
And the prosecution would look at why the guy is driving around with a loaded gun (not sure if/why that would be legal) in the first place.

I drive around with a loaded gun, it is legal in MS and LA, as well as GA; your vehicle is considered an extension of your home. He may have also had a CC permit?

My only question is why has this guy not been charged yet? As with most news stories, there must be more to this?
 
MD-90
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:52 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
What do you guys think? I'm kinda split on the issue. A part of me wants to be evil and say the little punk got what he deserved, but on the other hand, no one, absolutely no one deserves to die from a prank, especially so violently,

I believe that the shooter should be charged with negligent homicide, because he shot at someone who was unarmed TEN times, not once or twice.

Charge him with murder and send him to prison. There is NO excuse for what he did. Completely irresponsible and obviously he cannot handle firearms (which as a future felon he will never be allowed to own again).
 
ALTF4
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:39 pm

This wasn't premeditated, but rather a "crime of passion". I'm betting on charges that reflect that.

Shooting 10 times does not show premeditation.
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StuckInCA
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:56 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
I'm kinda split on the issue.

How the...? Are you serious?

Even if the kid burned the car and urinated on it's smoking ashes the guy has no right to kill him. All he had to do was go wash the car.
 
Mir
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:09 pm

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 16):
For the record, the article says that he fired 10 shots, not that he shot the kid 10 times.

That is what I meant - apologies if I didn't make that clear. Whether he actually hit him 10 times or not is immaterial in my book - he was crazy enough to try and kill someone who was running away from him, and whose only act of aggression was to throw some eggs at his car.

-Mir
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aerorobnz
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:24 am

He should have chased him down in the car he egged and run him over... That would have been less violent...
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DocLightning
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:53 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):

Heat of passion applies here, but I'm not sure even a reasonable person would respond to his car being egged in that manner unless he thought his life was in danger.

He might argue that he didn't know they were eggs and he thought they might be rocks or something else. And that might even be a valid defense. I've had eggs thrown at me and it took two or three before I realized they were harmless. When it happens to you you don't know what they are, but every cell in your body flips to "fight or flight."

But...

He shot the kid while the kid was running AWAY. And that is not a valid "Self-defense" defense in any state. You do not shoot at a retreating opponent.

No matter how in favor of gun rights you are (and I am very much in favor of them), you have to accept that this sort of thing is going to happen more in an armed society than a disarmed society.
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phatfarmlines
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:19 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):
He might argue that he didn't know they were eggs and he thought they might be rocks or something else. And that might even be a valid defense. I've had eggs thrown at me and it took two or three before I realized they were harmless. When it happens to you you don't know what they are, but every cell in your body flips to "fight or flight."

But...

He shot the kid while the kid was running AWAY. And that is not a valid "Self-defense" defense in any state. You do not shoot at a retreating opponent.

  

The "Stand your ground" law will get tested in the courts again, and I think this time, it will lose due to the circumstances noted above.
 
Maverick623
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:06 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):


He shot the kid while the kid was running AWAY. And that is not a valid "Self-defense" defense in any state.

There are circumstances where you can legally shoot someone in the back, as long as you feel they're an active threat to you or someone else (but you'd better give a damn good description).
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:36 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 26):

There are circumstances where you can legally shoot someone in the back,

Yeah, if they're on the ground going for your ankles or a few other isolated circumstances.

If your opponent is retreating, you do not fire. End of story.

This waste of skin needs to spend a lot longer than a decade in prison. How about life?
-Doc Lightning-

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Mudboy
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:15 am

Two of my friends, one that I used to be on SRT/SWAT with, have shot someone in the ass. Both were running away and firing back bent over. One was an 18 y/o punk that was running through the packed carnival shooting at another gang member, when my buddy got there, the guy was trying to get in a car, and my buddy popped him in the ass with a 45.
I responded to this in the box, and could not stop laughing when I got there, and transported him to the ER.
Needless to say, the 18 y/o punk got 99 yrs in prison, and never has to worry about sitting on the can again, as he wears a bag that takes care of that now.
Now that, is justice!!
It was amazing that nobody at the carnival got hit by his fire?
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:33 am

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 28):
Needless to say, the 18 y/o punk got 99 yrs in prison, and never has to worry about sitting on the can again, as he wears a bag that takes care of that now.

That sounds like justice to me, especially after running around where CHILDREN are present shooting wildly over a pissant gang argument.

In Bay Area news there was a guy who was bumped by someone in line at a movie theatre and shot the offender - managed to hit a pregnant woman in the process. They reported he was caught today and it's just some 18 year-old punk. These tiny-dicked gangbangers who run around feeling like real men because they have cold steel in their pockets shooting up crowds of people are the most pathetic cowards ever. At least in the old days you'd have to put up two fists and make it out of a big scrap to earn respect.  
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Kiwirob
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:25 am

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 5):
I know many Iraqi war vets, that go everywhere with a gun, and throwing things at their vehicles, would not be the smartest thing to do, a few of them have a hard enough time, driving down the road.

Should a person in that state of mind be allowed to own or carry a loaded firearm, they are a ticking timebomb and a danger to themselves and the general public.

This story is a lot like something that happened to my dad when I was a kid, some young guy threw eggs at our car as we passed by, my dad stopped, gave chase caught the guy in a flying tackle, which broke the kids collarbone, then dragged him to the police station which was about 250m away.

Dad cleaned the egg off the car, then a couple of months later went to court where the kid was fined for damaging private property. No one got killed, the kid learnt a lesson, the same outcome should have happened in this instance.

I'm happy to have lived in 2 countries with sensible firearm laws.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:53 am

No Halloween around here, but in this region of Germany, during the night of April 30th to May 1st, traditionally teenagers take all kinds of stuff which is not chained and locked down from other people´s property and dump it somewhere else in the village (sometimes it is even hard work, a few years ago some of them took a HUGE farm tractor rear wheel from an open barn and rolled it to the other end of the village). Mostly it is just an annoyance, like having to sweep up rubbish from overturned rubbish bins or having to search for your stuff, sometimes it is actually funny, like with two lovers, where everybody in the village knew that they were together, but in public always pretended that they were sinlge. Somebody took the machine normally used to mark the lines on the village football pitch with chalk and drew a line from HIS house to HER house, but sometimes these pranks cause cause real damage.
This is called the "May Witches".
The problem is that the teenagers are waiting for a reaction. If you get mad and shout at them, next year they´ll be even worse. On the other hand you can´t use violence against them to teach them a lesson, or you´ll get into legal trouble yourself (though I wished that I had a shotgun loaded with fine ground rocksalt    ).
The only option is to chain down rubbish bins and bigger stuff using padlocks and to hide all smaller stuff like gardening tools, in the garage and to lock it.

jan
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Mir
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:17 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):
No matter how in favor of gun rights you are (and I am very much in favor of them), you have to accept that this sort of thing is going to happen more in an armed society than a disarmed society.

Which is why there need to be very harsh penalties for stuff like this.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
ajd1992
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RE: Teen Shot Dead After Halloween Prank

Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:38 pm

At least it'll show that doing what you think is "funny" doesn't always end well.

I don't think for a minute he deserved to be killed for it but you can't go around treating other people like shit and expect to get away with it. I was guilty of egging somebody a few years ago (by association, I wasn't the egger) and I got the police at my door, and I deserve it because I stood and laughed instead of trying to stop it.

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