Cadet985
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Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:59 pm

Last night, my insomnia was acting up, and I was watching World News Now on ABC. They were showing a clip of Senator Mitch McConnell (R-KY) speaking before a group. In part, he said that Republicans need to work against President Obama to insure that he is a one term President. Now, call me stupid, call me naieve, but Barack Obama was elected by the American people to serve as President for a four year term. Although he is a Democrat and the House of Representatives is now run by the Republicans, isn't it more important for both sides to work together for the common good of the people, and compromise where necessary?

If he feels that the President is doing a less then stellar job, he can try to get the Republican nod, and challenge Obama in November 2012.

Marc
 
blueflyer
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:05 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Thread starter):
isn't it more important for both sides to work together for the common good of the people, and compromise where necessary?

In an ideal world, that would be the way to go, but this isn't an ideal world and the campaign for the 2012 presidential elections started November 3.

Quoting Cadet985 (Thread starter):
he can try to get the Republican nod, and challenge Obama in November 2012.

That is exactly what he is doing, minus the bit about getting the nod. Why wait until the convention...
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NIKV69
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:57 pm

I am not the biggest fan of McConnell but I have to give him credit for he doesn't play this game about working together. See the Dems idea of "working together" means it's our way or the highway. McConnell knows the other night was the people of this country saying stop what is happening and that Obama has to change the course. McConnell just doesn't sugarcoat it like many other Reps. Obama has to extend the tax cuts and he has to announce it now so confidence begins to grow and people start spending again. We basically have to wait till after this summit when they all meet and see what comes of it but I don't see much of anything happening.

[Edited 2010-11-05 08:27:19]
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474218
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:58 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Thread starter):
If he feels that the President is doing a less then stellar job, he can try to get the Republican nod, and challenge Obama in November 2012.


Seems to me that Obama started running for President as soon as he was elected to the Senate. And that was two years before President Bush's term was up!

Quoting Cadet985 (Thread starter):
isn't it more important for both sides to work together for the common good of the people, and compromise where necessary?


The magic words are "for the common good". What Obama thinks are "for the common good" are different than what the Republicans think is "for the common good"

The American voters looked at Obama's ideas of "for the common good" and rejected it with a resounding defeat of Democrats in the mid-term elections.
 
dxing
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:30 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Thread starter):
If he feels that the President is doing a less then stellar job, he can try to get the Republican nod, and challenge Obama in November 2012.

Don't think there aren't people already working on President Obama's 2012 campaign? Think again.

http://barackobama-2012.blogspot.com/

http://obama-in-2012.com/

Now those are just blogspots and not official in anyway but you'd have to be foolish to believe that there isn't a working group devising strategy, making contacts, and getting ready for 2012.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 3):
Seems to me that Obama started running for President as soon as he was elected to the Senate. And that was two years before President Bush's term was up!

Nope, he actually did 1 month in the Senate before he seriously started running.


As to the topic, Sen. McConnell has also said that where the President agrees with the people the GOP will work with him, where he opposes the peoples will, the GOP will work to defeat his ideas legislatively. These lines that keep getting thrown out there are just completely out of context and being used soley to try and make the GOP look as if they are just out to get the President at any expense when in reality it is the policies of the past Congress as well as the President that they seek to repair or repeal.
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seb146
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:35 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
See the Dems idea of "working together" means it's our way or the highway.

That also applies to the right-wingers. Remember all the filibusters? "We are not going to vote on this because we are the minority."

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
Obama has to extend the tax cuts and he has to announce it now so confidence begins to grow and people start spending again.

Because spending has been so furious over the past how many years?

Quoting 474218 (Reply 3):
The American voters looked at Obama's ideas of "for the common good" and rejected it with a resounding defeat of Democrats in the mid-term elections.

Actually, the whole shouting over "no common good" started the second the Dems gained control of the House and has not stopped. IIRC, there were town hall meetings so ALL Congress people could go back to their own district to LISTEN to their people. That would be us. No questions were asked by us. All that was heard was "You lie" and "Death panels" and "you are going to kill gramma" because a few right-wing mouthpices said that was what was going to happen if health care reform passes. Guess what? Health care costs will not rise with no way for us to pay for it. Thanks, right-wing! Free enterprise at work!

I think McConnell sees an opportunity and is using it. He sees he can be an extremist and can get away with it. The right-wing was crying about the socialist ideals of Harry Ried and Nancy Pelosi? Welcome to the socialist ideals of Boehner and McConnell!
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NIKV69
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:05 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 5):
That also applies to the right-wingers. Remember all the filibusters? "We are not going to vote on this because we are the minority

No they did that because the legislation was horrible as was proven by the vote the other night.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 5):
I think McConnell sees an opportunity and is using it. He sees he can be an extremist and can get away with it. The right-wing was crying about the socialist ideals of Harry Ried and Nancy Pelosi? Welcome to the socialist ideals of Boehner and McConnell!

I will respond to this with two quotes stolen from your side.

Obama - "Elections matter"

Pelosi - "We won"


Works both ways buddy.
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avent
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:12 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
See the Dems idea of "working together" means it's our way or the highway.

And how is that any different from Republicans telling Obama he has to move in their direction before they'll work with him?
 
mt99
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:16 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 6):
Works both ways buddy.

It sure does..

"Mitch McConnell: Rapid health repeal unlikely"

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1110/44702.html

WHAT.. things take time? No freaking way. What a failure of leadership. They have had a full 2 days to repeal Obama-care and now they say it will take "time"
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NIKV69
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:33 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 7):
And how is that any different from Republicans telling Obama he has to move in their direction before they'll work with him?

Easy they have the people on their side.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 8):
WHAT.. things take time? No freaking way. What a failure of leadership. They have had a full 2 days to repeal Obama-care and now they say it will take "time"

Well Obama is going on that trip and they don't get to sit down with him for two weeks.
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mt99
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:39 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 9):

Well Obama is going on that trip and they don't get to sit down with him for two weeks.

Excuses.. Get going with what the "Real America" wants you to do.
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Ken777
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:41 pm

I saw bits of McConnell's speech on TV and, IIRC, he was focused on (1) repealing health care, (2) ending bailouts, (3) cutting spending and (4) shrinking government.

Not a word - not one bloody word - on cutting unemployment, bringing decent paying jobs back, improving the economy, working on the mortgage crisis.

Basically I think McConnell and his ilk are feeling the Tea Party breathing down their necks more than Obama. DeMint is ready to take McConnell's place - and DeMint was handing out a lot of campaign money to the Tea Party.

Right now I think Botox McConnell is simply trying to keep his job.
 
avent
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:47 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 9):
Quoting avent (Reply 7):
And how is that any different from Republicans telling Obama he has to move in their direction before they'll work with him?

Easy they have the people on their side.

A truly fascinating response that sheds light on why rightwingers are so anti-intellectual. In this case you are espouing a position simply based on a perception it is a majority view and you don't see the implication of such a superficial position. Let me give you a few hints: Your position legitimizes democrats whenever they win, and would make your postings of Obama hypocritical, since by your own standard, he had the people on his side when he got elected - and technically, he still has until his teerm expires. Oh and by the way, it was the majority view at one point that blacks should not drink from the same water fountains as whites, so I'll give you credit for consistency in your affection for AZ's Governer and her rightwing anti-hispanic cronies.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:16 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
Not a word - not one bloody word - on cutting unemployment, bringing decent paying jobs back, improving the economy, working on the mortgage crisis.

Not one of those bloody issues is a prerogative of the federal government. It is high time for the federal government to return to its proper role of creating the environment in which the private sector economy can grow rather than command and control our way to prosperity. We are largely in this mess because the feds have been convinced that they can treat a complex economy with billions of individual transactions as one big sim city game.
 
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:49 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 12):
A truly fascinating response that sheds light on why rightwingers are so anti-intellectual. In this case you are espouing a position simply based on a perception it is a majority view and you don't see the implication of such a superficial position.

Yet in 08' you took this exact view and it was ok? Jeez give me a break.   
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avent
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:53 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 14):
Yet in 08' you took this exact view and it was ok?

Where?
 
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OA412
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:53 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
See the Dems idea of "working together" means it's our way or the highway.
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 6):
No they did that because the legislation was horrible as was proven by the vote the other night.

I see you're still doing your part to be names most blindly partisan member of a.net.

Quoting avent (Reply 7):
And how is that any different from Republicans telling Obama he has to move in their direction before they'll work with him?

Duh! Because it was Republicans doing it, ipso facto, it was correct and in the best interests of the country.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 9):
Well Obama is going on that trip and they don't get to sit down with him for two weeks.

Can the excuses. The election was on Tuesday, things should have already changed by now. Obamacare should have been repealed. What a do-nothing bunch of sad sacks these GOP candidates are.
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UNCRDU
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:17 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Thread starter):
Although he is a Democrat and the House of Representatives is now run by the Republicans, isn't it more important for both sides to work together for the common good of the people, and compromise where necessary?

Interesting how the Democrats basically ignored the Republicans for the past 2 years and railroaded unpopular legislation down America's throat, and now once they lost they suddenly want to "compromise" and "work together".

Quoting mt99 (Reply 8):

WHAT.. things take time? No freaking way. What a failure of leadership. They have had a full 2 days to repeal Obama-care and now they say it will take "time"

Um, the new leadership doesn't get sworn in until January. They aren't even in Washington yet. Dems are still in control for another month and a half.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:23 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 16):
Can the excuses. The election was on Tuesday, things should have already changed by now. Obamacare should have been repealed. What a do-nothing bunch of sad sacks these GOP candidates are.

Well something big has been accomplished. Obama is beginning to fold on the upper tier tax cuts so we are on our way. 2011 will be fun! Can't wait.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:32 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 12):
A truly fascinating response that sheds light on why rightwingers are so anti-intellectual

What are you talking about man? The GOP is being torn apart precisely because there's a large camp of educated folks and bunch of morons leading the fundie parade. They are not anti-intellectual - the Newt Gingrich, Karl Rove, Peggy Noonan and George Will attack parade against Palin was proof enough of that.
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dxing
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:37 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 7):
And how is that any different from Republicans telling Obama he has to move in their direction before they'll work with him?

The democratic leadership was firm in that they would not compromise on anything. That is evident in their behavior and actions. Both Boehner and McConnell have stated that where they can find common ground they will compromise quickly and where they don't the President will have to move in their direction which is not out and out telling them they don't have a chance.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 8):
WHAT.. things take time? No freaking way. What a failure of leadership. They have had a full 2 days to repeal Obama-care and now they say it will take "time"

Nor does the GOP have the Presidency, or 60 seats in the Senate which wipes out the filibuster as the democratic leadership had after the 2008 elections. At best they will be able to defund areas of the health care bill. call the HHS secretary to the Hill repeatedly to explain exactly how certain items in the health care bill will be implemented since it was insisted by Speaker Pelosi that we wouldn't know what was in the bill until it was passed. The best we can hope for is the financial heart of the bill, the mandate to buy health insurance, will be cut out by the courts as being Unconstitutional.
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avent
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:11 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 20):
Quoting avent (Reply 7):
And how is that any different from Republicans telling Obama he has to move in their direction before they'll work with him?

The democratic leadership was firm in that they would not compromise on anything. That is evident in their behavior and actions. Both Boehner and McConnell have stated that where they can find common ground they will compromise quickly and where they don't the President will have to move in their direction which is not out and out telling them they don't have a chance.

I see. So we'll give credit to the party-of-no because we have your assurances they will compromise quickly when they can.

Nah. I'm not that gullible to believe that. (Where's that popcorn again?)
 
dxing
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:23 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 21):
I see. So we'll give credit to the party-of-no because we have your assurances they will compromise quickly when they can.

As of Wednesday's press conference that title had been transferred to the President and Senator Reid. It will be interesting to see how the remaining democratic Senators feel about compromising as 37 of them signed a letter to Reid asking for a vote on extending all the Bush tax cuts prior to leaving to campaign in October.
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Ken777
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:28 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 18):
2011 will be fun!

Considering that Senator Botox bas put the 2012 election above the need to build jobs and cut unemployment it isn't going to be fun for a lot of Americans.

But the top 2% income earners might be happy - guess that's all that counts for the conservatives.  
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:58 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Thread starter):
isn't it more important for both sides to work together for the common good of the people,

Name just 1 national politician that works for any "good" but his or her own. I assure you there is not a single one Democrat or Republican.
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NIKV69
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:19 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 23):
But the top 2% income earners might be happy - guess that's all that counts for the conservatives.

You keep forgetting many of those top 2% are small businesses that see maybe 35% of that 250k?
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Ken777
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:14 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 25):
You keep forgetting many of those top 2% are small businesses that see maybe 35% of that 250k?

Remember that the taxes are on the net income, not the gross. And I'll assume that companies pulling in more than $250K a year actually talk to an accountant now and then - which allows them to make more than $250 without being in the $250+ tax bracket.

And, of course those making $1M & up have even more resources to minimize tax liabilities.

Add another zero and start considering the tax effectiveness available.

And that's where the Republican leadership will be working for.
 
seb146
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:15 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 6):
Works both ways buddy.

When the tea people see the people they elected have done nothing but give trillions of dollars to corporations and, in the end, lose jobs for Americans, elections will matter more than ever.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 6):
No they did that because the legislation was horrible as was proven by the vote the other night.

And their ideas were.....?
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:52 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
See the Dems idea of "working together" means it's our way or the highway

I seem to recall GOP lawmakers who used this idea during this Congress...filibuster anyone?

Quoting Cadet985 (Thread starter):
and the House of Representatives is now run by the Republicans,

Correction: the current Congress hasn't ended, so Democrats are still in power. When the next Congress begins, THEN it'll be run by Republicans.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 5):
That also applies to the right-wingers. Remember all the filibusters? "We are not going to vote on this because we are the minority."

Ahhh...the memories just come flowing back...and when Democrats apply this, the GOP will HAVE to shut up. What goes around comes around.
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Mudboy
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:21 am

Quoting avent (Reply 12):
A truly fascinating response that sheds light on why rightwingers are so anti-intellectual. In this case you are espouing a position simply based on a perception it is a majority view and you don't see the implication of such a superficial position. Let me give you a few hints: Your position legitimizes democrats whenever they win, and would make your postings of Obama hypocritical, since by your own standard, he had the people on his side when he got elected - and technically, he still has until his teerm expires. Oh and by the way, it was the majority view at one point that blacks should not drink from the same water fountains as whites, so I'll give you credit for consistency in your affection for AZ's Governer and her rightwing anti-hispanic cronies.

Enough with the DEMs are intellectually superior to the GOP, just because they don't represent your views. One might ask the question of how intellectual it makes you look, when as a country we are trying to move forward, and you are trying to say that the GOP of today have the same racist attitude, of the 50s and 60s? How do we expect to move forward, when we constantly have to bring up the past?
 
Lufthansa411
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:50 am

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 24):
Name just 1 national politician that works for any "good" but his or her own. I assure you there is not a single one Democrat or Republican.

I don't think that is a fair assessment at all. The fact is that there are two main types of politicians, career politicians like McConnell or Obama, and then there are those that see it an adventure, a stepping stone to wherever life takes them next. My soon to be former representative John Hall is a perfect example. He didn't need to go into politics, he has a top 10 song, and I would bet a fair amount of money that after he leaves the House in January, he will not continue on in politics.

He defeated Sue Kelly in 2006 and since then has been holding events in the district almost every week, and not fundraising events, but just standing outside of buildings and getting peoples opinions whether they be positive or negative. Just in the time I was back in NY, I saw Hall twice in my town. In the 12 years that Kelly was our rep, I didn't see her once. She never talked to the average person, in fact she ignored them. Maybe behind closed doors in secret he was a totally different person, but the John Hall I met was sincere when talking to you, and even checked up on us after a particularly difficult situation.

And it's not just Hall, there are others from both sides of the aisle. The difference is that they are not the ones making the headlines, they keep-on in the background fighting for their constituents. i.e. not the Pelosi's or Boehner's.
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dxing
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:01 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 26):
Remember that the taxes are on the net income, not the gross.

Depends on how they are filing. It could be off the adjusted gross which is different than net.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 28):
I seem to recall GOP lawmakers who used this idea during this Congress...filibuster anyone?

Since the democratic party will still be in the majority, why would they filibuster anything? They have the power through the majority leader and the committee chairs to keep anything from coming to the floor for a vote.
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avent
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:57 pm

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 29):
Enough with the DEMs are intellectually superior to the GOP, just because they don't represent your views. One might ask the question of how intellectual it makes you look, when as a country we are trying to move forward, and you are trying to say that the GOP of today have the same racist attitude, of the 50s and 60s? How do we expect to move forward, when we constantly have to bring up the past?

They can't have it both ways and can't be surprised when their own argument where they smear the Left as being intellectual elites is inverted and used against them. They should be proud of being unsophisticated boobs, so they need to get over it.

You're worried about being tainted with racism? The Party that's building concentration camps in the AZ desert for poor people who sneak across a border looking for work? The Party of Willie Horton? The Party that thrives on daemonizing minorities in election ads and that crafts legislation designed to target a particular race (AZ SB1070 through targeting hispanic day laborer behaviours)?

Your outrage is misplaced.
 
UNCRDU
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:23 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 32):
You're worried about being tainted with racism? The Party that's building concentration camps in the AZ desert for poor people who sneak across a border looking for work?

You mean the people that are building jails for criminals? Oh, the horror.
 
avent
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:40 pm

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 33):
Quoting avent (Reply 32):
You're worried about being tainted with racism? The Party that's building concentration camps in the AZ desert for poor people who sneak across a border looking for work?

You mean the people that are building jails for criminals? Oh, the horror.
brown-skinned criminals...
 
UNCRDU
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:43 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 34):
brown-skinned criminals...

The key word here is "criminals". Their skin tone doesn't matter. Many of the LEO's tasked with catching these people are *gasp* brown-skinned as well. Whodda thunk?
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:53 pm

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 35):
Many of the LEO's tasked with catching these people are *gasp* brown-skinned as well. Whodda thunk?

...but they have sold out because they're working for THE MAN! lol
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windy95
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:02 pm

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 35):
The key word here is "criminals". Their skin tone doesn't matter. Many of the LEO's tasked with catching these people are *gasp* brown-skinned as well. Whodda thunk?

Watching the Show Border wars on National geographic I noticed that just about everyone working the border is of Hispanic descent. Seem to toss the whole racism thing out the window.
 
UNCRDU
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:05 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 37):

Watching the Show Border wars on National geographic I noticed that just about everyone working the border is of Hispanic descent. Seem to toss the whole racism thing out the window.

Yup. The border patrol prefers people who are already fluent in Spanish; it saves them a heck of a lot in training. They also have an elite unite that is made up entirely of Native Americans. You know, those racist Navajos and such.
 
avent
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:25 pm

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 38):
Yup. The border patrol prefers people who are already fluent in Spanish; it saves them a heck of a lot in training. They also have an elite unite that is made up entirely of Native Americans. You know, those racist Navajos and such.

How liberal of you to imply only whites can be racist!   
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:02 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 39):
How liberal of you to imply only whites can be racist!

So Latino-Americans targeting illegal border crossers from Mexico can be referred to as racist?   
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
avent
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:43 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 40):
Quoting avent (Reply 39):
How liberal of you to imply only whites can be racist!

So Latino-Americans targeting illegal border crossers from Mexico can be referred to as racist?

Not my argument really one way or the other. It was UNCRDU who seemed to think that racially motivated acts cannot occur against hispanics simply because there are spanish speaking Border agents, so I couldn't resist making the above comment.

Speaking of Border Agents, I believe they are Federal employees, and not under Herr Arpio's control, so UNCRDU's comment is off the mark on that point also.
 
UNCRDU
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:32 am

Quoting avent (Reply 41):

Enforcing the law is racist now? I must have missed the memo.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:04 am

Quoting avent (Reply 41):
Herr Arpio's control

Do I detect something in the use of Herr, not Sheriff Joe Arpio as his legal title? This man is not breaking the law, he is enforcing the law, and supported by the voters while doing it. I wonder what you find wrong about that?
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
avent
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:00 am

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 42):
Enforcing the law is racist now? I must have missed the memo.

If a law is intrinsically racist, enforcing it becomes a racist act.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 43):
Quoting avent (Reply 41):
Herr Arpio's control

Do I detect something in the use of Herr, not Sheriff Joe Arpio as his legal title? This man is not breaking the law, he is enforcing the law, and supported by the voters while doing it. I wonder what you find wrong about that?

What I find wrong about it is it targets a specific minority (hispanics) through crafting a law that is overly broad that incorporates the following elements:

1: It specifically targets behaviours common to day labor practices undertaken by poor hispanics, namely standing at parking lots waiting for people to drive by and hire them.

2. It allows police to trigger verification of citizenship based on suspicion. Given the rampant dementia among the sherrif's department and AZ white conservatives, this is remarkably vulnerable to abuse. ANd note, a driver's license is not proof of citizenship since resident alient and other visa holders can have state drivers licenses.

3. Police involvement is supposedly only if there is reason for lawful contact which might be for stopping to hire someone, for stopping on a street, or any other issue under the law. This means any citizen is now suspect for merely stopping to take a phone call, for reading a map, or for asking a person for directions. Given the anti-illegal hysteria from the stockholders and campaign donation recipients affiliated with the AZ prison industry, (the Governer and Sherrif in particular along with about 30 others in the AZ legislature,) the argument they won't discriminate against hispanics is just not credible.

4. The law is frivolous in that illegal immigration is in decline; why should a redneck sherrif be allowed to open his own INS branch; and what can we expect next - a taxpayer verification scheme when he gets bored of his current obsessions?

5. AZ is bankrupt, this xenophobia against hispanics is a distraction from more important issues; given the redneck culture in AZ, it was a trump card for a governor who presides over a failing state who'd be kicked out if it wasn't for such issues.

So, when I see mean spirited laws from camera tropic politicians that target minorities and who buddy up with neo-nazis, and try and frame issues as if illegal immigration was the major cause for our financial troubles for their political ends, it begins to take on a whiff of fascism as far as I'm concerned.
 
dxing
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:08 am

Quoting avent (Reply 44):
1: It specifically targets behaviours common to day labor practices undertaken by poor hispanics, namely standing at parking lots waiting for people to drive by and hire them.

Then it would also target white hookers who are street walking.

Quoting avent (Reply 44):
2. It allows police to trigger verification of citizenship based on suspicion. Given the rampant dementia among the sherrif's department and AZ white conservatives, this is remarkably vulnerable to abuse. ANd note, a driver's license is not proof of citizenship since resident alient and other visa holders can have state drivers licenses.

But not illegal aliens.

Quoting avent (Reply 44):
3. Police involvement is supposedly only if there is reason for lawful contact which might be for stopping to hire someone, for stopping on a street, or any other issue under the law. This means any citizen is now suspect for merely stopping to take a phone call, for reading a map, or for asking a person for directions.

Only if they are blocking traffic on a public roadway according the link you posted in another thread.

Quoting avent (Reply 44):
4. The law is frivolous in that illegal immigration is in decline; why should a redneck sherrif be allowed to open his own INS branch; and what can we expect next - a taxpayer verification scheme when he gets bored of his current obsessions?

So if bank robbery declines we should stop chasing bank robbers?

Quoting avent (Reply 44):
5. AZ is bankrupt, this xenophobia against hispanics is a distraction from more important issues; given the redneck culture in AZ, it was a trump card for a governor who presides over a failing state who'd be kicked out if it wasn't for such issues.

Opinion. Nothing new here, same old arguments, same tilted reasoning.
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avent
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:02 am

Quoting dxing (Reply 45):
Quoting avent (Reply 44):
1: It specifically targets behaviours common to day labor practices undertaken by poor hispanics, namely standing at parking lots waiting for people to drive by and hire them.

Then it would also target white hookers who are street walking.

As usual, you miss the blindingly obvious.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:18 am

Quoting avent (Reply 44):
If a law is intrinsically racist, enforcing it becomes a racist act.

Racist - most. overused. political. criticism. buzzword. EVER.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
UNCRDU
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:34 am

Quoting avent (Reply 44):

If a law is intrinsically racist, enforcing it becomes a racist act.

Agreed. Our immigration laws are not, however. "Don't come across illegally" applies to everyone-white, black, purple, and yes, brown.
 
avent
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RE: Has Mitch McConnell Gone Off The Deep End?

Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:05 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 47):
Quoting avent (Reply 44):

If a law is intrinsically racist, enforcing it becomes a racist act.


Agreed. Our immigration laws are not, however. "Don't come across illegally" applies to everyone-white, black, purple, and yes, brown.

At the Federal level yes, but at the SB1070 level, the law most certainly has racist overtones.

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