photopilot
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Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:39 pm

God will save us from climate change: U.S. Representative

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/ar...ate-change-u-s-representative?bn=1

"U.S. Representative John Shimkus, possible future chairman of the Congressional committee that deals with energy and its attendant environmental concerns, believes that climate change should not concern us since God has already promised not to destroy the Earth..........."

"........he dismissed the dangers of climate change and the warnings of the scientific community by quoting the Bible."



There's putting your head in the sand.... .not believing the scientists, and just plain ignorance, but this has to top the cake. To think that you can simply ignore climate change because "god" will save you is the height of stupidity IMHO.

What to you think?
 
Superfly
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:47 pm

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):
What to you think?

Is Ralph Nader, Al Gore, Bono, Bonnie Raitt and Goldman Sachs more capable at reversing Mother Nature's natural cycle?
Bring back the Concorde
 
Mir
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:59 pm

I would agree that he is uniquely qualified for the chairmanship. Emphasis on "unique".   

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
avent
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:03 pm

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):
What to you think?

Triumph of the Boobocracy?
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:07 pm

Even though I believe that God will take care of humanity, that doesn't excuse ignorance and blatant polluting. That goes for anything. God loves you and wants you to live... but if you jump off a cliff what do ya think will happen???
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
avent
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:07 pm

Let me add...

If an airline pilot gave up and said they didn't want to deal with IFR conditions and that the safety of the flight was in God's hands, most would tear him out of the cockpit and take over the flight. It appears however, if the pilot was a republican, the pilot's actions would be acceptable.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:10 pm

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):
There's putting your head in the sand....

So we should instead believe in the IPCC and the rest of the UN?

Science once said the Earth was flat. They once said the Earth was the center of the universe and everything in the sky rotated around us. They said the north and soulth ice packs are melting, but in the past two years they have actually grown.

God will do what God wants to do, and nothing any scientist can do will ever change that.

Scientists do get some things right, and some things wrong. Mankind is not powerful enough to change the global climate, period. We cannot even make it consistantly rain by seeding clouds. It is hit and miss.
 
mt99
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:19 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Science once said the Earth was flat. They once said the Earth was the center of the universe and everything in the sky rotated around us.

Science? really? Wasn't the Catholic Church saying that? Ask Copernicus and Galieo..
Step into my office, baby
 
Scorpio
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:24 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
So we should instead believe in the IPCC and the rest of the UN?

Seriously, where does this even enter into it? Don't try to turn this into yet another 'Global warming, yes or no' debate exactly like the dozens we've already had, with the exact same arguments made by the exact same people all over again. That is NOT what this thread is about. This is about a man whose counter-argument to global warming worries is 'God won't let it hurt us'. Not 'there is no Global warming', or 'the science doesn't add up' or whatever. No, God won't let it happen. If that kind of attitude doesn't scare the living daylights out of you coming from a man who has the potential to have real political power, I don't know what would.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Science once said the Earth was flat. They once said the Earth was the center of the universe and everything in the sky rotated around us.

Remember that it was science, NOT religion, that came up with the right answer to those two. And it was religion, NOT science, that denied the reality and went as far as to persecute people for suggesting anything but a flat Earth or Earth being the center of the universe. So while your comparison might be a valid one, it's not in the way you intended it to be.

[Edited 2010-11-10 09:31:07]
 
photopilot
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:31 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 5):
If an airline pilot gave up and said they didn't want to deal with IFR conditions and that the safety of the flight was in God's hands, most would tear him out of the cockpit and take over the flight. It appears however, if the pilot was a republican, the pilot's actions would be acceptable.

           

WOW..... that would also mean that not a single person in any aircraft that has crashed prayed or asked god to save them. I mean, look at all the crashes there have been over the years and how many thousands have died. Therefore, god must have wanted them to die or he would have listened to him. Sadistic bastard that god is, eh?
 
avent
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:34 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Science once said the Earth was flat. They once said the Earth was the center of the universe and everything in the sky rotated around us.

Well gosh darn those intellectual elites who evolve their thinking as new information comes along. Ignorance really is bliss, and new knowledge just stirs things up needessly.
 
avent
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:42 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):
God loves you and wants you to live...

While I commend you on your sincerity here, the bottom line is statements like that are meaningless in the sense that if you had the ability to click our fingers to fix a kid dying of starvation, I believe you would. Your god doesn't. I have no idea why you respect it, since its ethics are worse than yours, or, you have no clue about your god's ethics, and hence you have no basis for your statement in the first case.

Put another way, if a bystander with a fire hose stood by while a house with children inside burned to the ground, all the while the bystander proclaimed their love of children and that they wanted them to live, they'd be thrown in jail for criminal negligence. But you'd admire the bystander.
 
UNCRDU
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:50 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 11):

While I commend you on your sincerity here, the bottom line is statements like that are meaningless in the sense that if you had the ability to click our fingers to fix a kid dying of starvation, I believe you would. Your god doesn't. I have no idea why you respect it, since its ethics are worse than yours, or, you have no clue about your god's ethics, and hence you have no basis for your statement in the first case.

Put another way, if a bystander with a fire hose stood by while a house with children inside burned to the ground, all the while the bystander proclaimed their love of children and that they wanted them to live, they'd be thrown in jail for criminal negligence. But you'd admire the bystander.

We're still paying for the sins of Adam and Eve. God gave us a chance to live in a utopia, and we (humanity) ruined it. Now none are without sin, and all will eventually pay for it. God for the most part leaves us to create and suffer from our own mistakes. It is the afterlife that most concerns him.
 
desertjets
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:55 pm

Apparently this congressman is unfamiliar with the very Christian concept of stewardship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stewardship_%28theology%29


Environmentalism is very much within the purview of this concept.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
lewis
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:59 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Science once said the Earth was flat. They once said the Earth was the center of the universe and everything in the sky rotated around us.

Science changed as new facts and research suggested otherwise, religion did not.

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 12):
We're still paying for the sins of Adam and Eve. God gave us a chance to live in a utopia, and we (humanity) ruined it. Now none are without sin, and all will eventually pay for it. God for the most part leaves us to create and suffer from our own mistakes. It is the afterlife that most concerns him.

Oh ok, so all the suffering in the world for an apple? God never gave US a chance to live in a utopia, he gave it to two people, if it had stayed like that they would be the only ones to enjoy that utopia, maybe for ever (if they were not mortals) or maybe they would die in the end and that would be it. I still don't get that story - probably because it was never meant to be taken literally.
 
flanker
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Is Ralph Nader, Al Gore, Bono, Bonnie Raitt and Goldman Sachs more capable at reversing Mother Nature's natural cycle?

Its what i was just about to say to comment on the topic. Its the same as saying politicians will save us from something false.
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
 
connies4ever
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
So we should instead believe in the IPCC and the rest of the UN?

Much more credibility than Rep. Shimkus.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Science once said the Earth was flat. They once said the Earth was the center of the universe and everything in the sky rotated around us.
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 8):
Remember that it was science, NOT religion, that came up with the right answer to those two.

Bravo on both points Scorpio ! What we call science rests on the principal of testability, and the Catholic Church forbad even asking the question, let alone testing it.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
They said the north and soulth ice packs are melting, but in the past two years they have actually grown.

And the IPCC and other advocates are trying to make th epoint that it is the longer-term trend that is th eissue, not year-over-year variability.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
God will do what God wants to do, and nothing any scientist can do will ever change that.

Both your points remain to be proven. They are merely opinions.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
UNCRDU
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:03 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 14):
Oh ok, so all the suffering in the world for an apple? God never gave US a chance to live in a utopia, he gave it to two people, if it had stayed like that they would be the only ones to enjoy that utopia, maybe for ever (if they were not mortals) or maybe they would die in the end and that would be it. I still don't get that story - probably because it was never meant to be taken literally.

It wasn't essentially an "apple"-they had a choice: follow God's will or turn your back on Him. They chose the latter. The story may have been intended to be taken metaphorically, but the message is still the same: we are still suffering for turning our back on God.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:13 pm

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 12):
It is the afterlife that most concerns him.

Please, enlighten us as to how you can speak for what God is most concerned about. Use logic or reason much?

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 17):
we are still suffering for turning our back on God.

Maybe we suffer because it's our general nature to act in our own interest? Just a thought...
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Confuscius
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:19 pm

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 12):
We're still paying for the sins of Adam and Eve. God gave us a chance to live in a utopia, and we (humanity) ruined it. Now none are without sin, and all will eventually pay for it. God for the most part leaves us to create and suffer from our own mistakes.

For an almighty being, God is an underachiever as a designer, especially after making us in his own image.

...wonder if he designed the Trent 900 as well. Hmm   

[Edited 2010-11-10 10:20:34]
Ain't I a stinker?
 
mbmbos
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:20 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Is Ralph Nader, Al Gore, Bono, Bonnie Raitt and Goldman Sachs more capable...

Since Nader, Gore, Bono, etc. are actual living people as opposed to mythological beings, I'd say they have more of a chance of success than God.

But I hear what you're saying. It's arrogant of humans to think they can save the planet just as it is arrogant of humans to think they have the wisdom and power to exert dominion over the earth.

On the other hand, I don't suppose it hurts to attempt to reverse the trend, and by doing so, have a shot at mitigating some of the terrible effects of climate change. I'm also sick and tired of us behaving like pigs at the trough. How about ending pollution and depleting natural resources because it's just so greedy and piggish? And it makes the earth ugly. And it poisons humans and the rest of the animal kingdom.

Do we really need a better reason than that?
 
UNCRDU
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:20 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 18):
Please, enlighten us as to how you can speak for what God is most concerned about. Use logic or reason much?

Feel free to criticize my beliefs. After all, I am just a Christian. I'm pretty much the only person you're allowed to criticize nowadays. I'm not even very religious either, I haven't been to church in years and I haven't read the Bible in some time, but my faith is still important to me.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 18):

Maybe we suffer because it's our general nature to act in our own interest? Just a thought...

Sure.
 
lewis
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:20 pm

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 17):
The story may have been intended to be taken metaphorically, but the message is still the same: we are still suffering for turning our back on God.

Who decides how far the metaphor goes? Was Adam and Eve also part of the metaphor or just the apple stuff?

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 18):
it's our general nature to act in our own interest

Same thing, God made us this way.
 
UNCRDU
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:21 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 22):

Who decides how far the metaphor goes? Was Adam and Eve also part of the metaphor or just the apple stuff?

Depends on what you want to believe. I'm certainly not going to tell you how to think.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:24 pm

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):

"........he dismissed the dangers of climate change and the warnings of the scientific community by quoting the Bible."


       

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):
What to you think?

I can't believe voters get these type of idiots in congress. Politics and religion should never mix. NEVER.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):


Science once said the Earth was flat. They once said the Earth was the center of the universe and everything in the sky rotated around us. They said the north and soulth ice packs are melting, but in the past two years they have actually grown.

God will do what God wants to do, and nothing any scientist can do will ever change that.

You've got to be kidding me. Last time I checked RELIGION was what said we were the center of the universe, and that the earth was flat.
 
Mir
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:25 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
God will do what God wants to do, and nothing any scientist can do will ever change that.

It's not the only factor for sure, but the idea that we can do whatever we want in terms of emissions and it makes no difference at all is pure fantasy.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
avent
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:28 pm

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 12):
We're still paying for the sins of Adam and Eve. God gave us a chance to live in a utopia, and we (humanity) ruined it. Now none are without sin, and all will eventually pay for it. God for the most part leaves us to create and suffer from our own mistakes. It is the afterlife that most concerns him.

Whatever. I as an athiest would click my fingers to heal the sick child if I had the power; your god supposedly has the power, but refuses to do so. Either my morality is superior to his, or christians have no clue what they are talking about in this regard.
 
lewis
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:29 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
God will do what God wants to do, and nothing any scientist can do will ever change that.

With all the diseases around the world, I guess God planned for many of us to be dead by now. Science, through medicine, has helped many of us stay alive more than planned. How is the above statement true?
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:29 pm

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 21):
I'm pretty much the only person you're allowed to criticize nowadays.

No, I generally leave religious people alone - unless they want to exert undue influence on the law or purport to speak for God - both of which are just patently unacceptable.

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 21):
I haven't been to church in years and I haven't read the Bible in some time, but my faith is still important to me.

Case in point what's wrong with religion today. You're not even doing the work but still want to spout this stuff off. What does that say?

Quoting lewis (Reply 22):
Same thing, God made us this way.

We are this way because we generally have kids and family to support, no matter where you're born or what walk of life you grow up in - and they come first. Watch any other mammal with their young - no different.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
avent
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:32 pm

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 12):
We're still paying for the sins of Adam and Eve.

Truly an admirable sense of Justice there - blame the kids for the sins of the parents.
 
photopilot
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:33 pm

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 12):
We're still paying for the sins of Adam and Eve.

WOW, what a novel concept. I'll go out and rob a bank and YOU can pay for it. That's basically what you're saying. That we have NO FREE CHOICE, because we must pay for the "sins" of others. Where did your god put MY FREE WILL to choose for myself?

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 17):
we are still suffering for turning our back on God.

WOW, did't "god" ever hear of parole or time off for good behaviour? 12,000,000 dead in the gas chambers, but that's ok because they turned their back on god. Stalin kills 17,000,000 Russians who also must have turned their back on your god. Mao Ze-Dong kills over 50,000,000 in China who also must have turned their back on god. Gee.... want me to continue the list?
Wasn't your god the one who preached an Eye-for-an-eye? Well gosh golly gee..... how many deaths will it take to pay for one apple?

Oh, and I haven't seen your god turn Love Canal into a clean Recreational Area yet. Lots of people are still waiting.
 
lewis
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:33 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 28):
We are this way because we generally have kids and family to support, no matter where you're born or what walk of life you grow up in - and they come first. Watch any other mammal with their young - no different.

Yes but my theory provides the fastest and most thought-free explanation, doesn't it?   
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:39 pm

Honestly, I can't believe the kind of people Americans elect to office/Congress. Maybe the Rep. should read this: religion is like your private parts, you keep them to yourself. It's OK if you believe God will protect humanity from any disaster (which is not true; what's stated in Genesis is that he will not flood the Earth, which in turn is something I even doubt in the first place...), but another thing is to become a soon-to-be chairman of any committee and do nothing. Step aside and let another person take the helm if you won't do anything except pray. We have plenty of people praying for hundreds of years and so far, it hasn't turned out so good.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 8):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Science once said the Earth was flat. They once said the Earth was the center of the universe and everything in the sky rotated around us.

Remember that it was science, NOT religion, that came up with the right answer to those two. And it was religion, NOT science, that denied the reality and went as far as to persecute people for suggesting anything but a flat Earth or Earth being the center of the universe. So while your comparison might be a valid one, it's not in the way you intended it to be.

Remember that anything that has God in it is good. Yet another reason why we're in so many problems in the first place: not acting believing a higher force will take care of anything. Perhaps this picture might shed some light into what I mean:

http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/prayer.jpg

Quoting avent (Reply 5):
Let me add...

If an airline pilot gave up and said they didn't want to deal with IFR conditions and that the safety of the flight was in God's hands, most would tear him out of the cockpit and take over the flight. It appears however, if the pilot was a republican, the pilot's actions would be acceptable.

THE best counterargument yet!

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):
but if you jump off a cliff what do ya think will happen???

I'll pray for God to make me a bird so I can fly far far away. Once I land, wings will detach and I will walk on. Makes sense to me. (Kudos if you guess the reference).
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
UNCRDU
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:51 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 26):

Whatever. I as an athiest would click my fingers to heal the sick child if I had the power; your god supposedly has the power, but refuses to do so. Either my morality is superior to his, or christians have no clue what they are talking about in this regard.

Cool, respect my religion and I'll respect your lack of one. Mmmmmkay? There's no moral high horse for you here.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 28):
Case in point what's wrong with religion today. You're not even doing the work but still want to spout this stuff off. What does that say?

It says I have faith but I'm not overly religious. I prefer individual faith and pondering to organized religion, which I feel is too easily exploitable.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 30):

WOW, what a novel concept. I'll go out and rob a bank and YOU can pay for it. That's basically what you're saying. That we have NO FREE CHOICE, because we must pay for the "sins" of others. Where did your god put MY FREE WILL to choose for myself?

There is free will-we just all choose to sin. Every single one of us. Heck, I know I do.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 30):
WOW, did't "god" ever hear of parole or time off for good behaviour? 12,000,000 dead in the gas chambers, but that's ok because they turned their back on god. Stalin kills 17,000,000 Russians who also must have turned their back on your god. Mao Ze-Dong kills over 50,000,000 in China who also must have turned their back on god. Gee.... want me to continue the list?
Wasn't your god the one who preached an Eye-for-an-eye? Well gosh golly gee..... how many deaths will it take to pay for one apple?

Oh, and I haven't seen your god turn Love Canal into a clean Recreational Area yet. Lots of people are still waiting.

Um, once again, that's where "free will" comes in. God doesn't tend to meddle in our own affairs-we do a good enough job destroying ourselves as it is.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:54 pm

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 33):
I prefer individual faith and pondering to organized religion, which I feel is too easily exploitable.

Umm OK, but what does that have to do with an idiot politician who wants to make policy based on pie-in-the-sky hopes for what God will deliver?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
UNCRDU
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:56 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 34):
Umm OK, but what does that have to do with an idiot politician who wants to make policy based on pie-in-the-sky hopes for what God will deliver?

I don't know; that's not what I was responding to. My original post was responding to avent's attack on my religion.
 
777236ER
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:58 pm

He has a point. God has flooded the earth once, he can do it again. The earth recovered from His event, it can recover again. I think it's shocking that people actually complain about his opinions...we have a little thing called freedom of speech, which allows him to say these things. And after all, the vast majority of Americans believe this, he's just reflecting the opinions of the People.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
avent
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:05 pm

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 33):
Cool, respect my religion and I'll respect your lack of one. Mmmmmkay? There's no moral high horse for you here.

But you are the one claiming there is some moral aspect at work through characterizing our suffering as being a consequence of Adam and Eve's poor judgement. You are blaming the victim; you are saying the kids who died in the house fire analogy were to blame and the bystander who refused to used the firehose is not only without blame, but is to be admired. You are of course free to believe what you want, but when you offer perspectives that are not compelling, I reserve the right to comment on them.
 
nwadeicer
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:14 pm

I thought god only helped professional sports players. During their post game interviews most of them thanks god or point to the sky after every home run/touchdown. Maybe if my dad had been a professional player he wouldn't have had to suffer the way he did prior to his death, guess we didn't pray hard enough. Or how about my mom and the debilitating illness she is suffering from. I was going to start to pray but, you know, what's the point.

For an all loving person I really haven't seen much, but he can sure dole out the punishment though.
I miss the Red Tail
 
UNCRDU
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:15 pm

Quoting avent (Reply 37):
But you are the one claiming there is some moral aspect at work through characterizing our suffering as being a consequence of Adam and Eve's poor judgement. You are blaming the victim; you are saying the kids who died in the house fire analogy were to blame and the bystander who refused to used the firehose is not only without blame, but is to be admired. You are of course free to believe what you want, but when you offer perspectives that are not compelling, I reserve the right to comment on them.

That's not my argument at all though. The kids in the fire weren't even an afterthought in the beginning; they aren't to blame for Adam and Eve's initial sin. They just unfortunately have to suffer as a result of it though-the price of free will.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:16 pm

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):

What to you think?

Finally someone is using their mind right. Here's two scenarios.

1. God is in control, will protect us and the earth, and so there's nothing to worry about

2. The massive evolutionary processes that progressed the world to this point, through thick and thin, will continue and protect the earth, so there's nothing to worry about.

So whichever one you subscribe too, slight global warming shouldn't be a big issue. The corrections are already in place, and they are far beyond what human beings can control.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:17 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):

Science once said the Earth was flat. They once said the Earth was the center of the universe and everything in the sky rotated around us. They said the north and soulth ice packs are melting, but in the past two years they have actually grown.

No. The CHURCH said that the Earth was flat and the center of the universe. And they forced Galileo to recant his position to the contrary.

But even if what you said were true, the thing about science is that it's open to new information and to revision. Disprove a hypothesis and it goes away.

the same cannot be said of religion.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
avent
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:19 pm

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 39):
That's not my argument at all though. The kids in the fire weren't even an afterthought in the beginning; they aren't to blame for Adam and Eve's initial sin. They just unfortunately have to suffer as a result of it though-the price of free will.

Either way, it would be poor comfort to the parents to be told their children's death was the price of free-will, which, incidently, the Bystander exercised in not trying to put out the fire.

[Edited 2010-11-10 11:24:20]
 
lewis
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:20 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 40):

Good point! I can see why Option 1 and the whole package it comes with is more preferable to the masses. It is supposed to protect US as well in the process, while Option 2 only guarantees the protection of the earth, even if that means that we will have to get out of the way in order for that to happen.
 
avent
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:28 pm

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 33):
Um, once again, that's where "free will" comes in. God doesn't tend to meddle in our own affairs-we do a good enough job destroying ourselves as it is.

I don't buy this either; we'd throw a parent in jail if they let their kids play with razor blades with a mindset they had free-will and needed to sort things out.

It's just another example of the intellectual meltdown that occurs when one assumes one understands what God is about, and when one thinks they can apply concepts like Love and Free-Will to creators, mythical or otherwise.

[Edited 2010-11-10 11:28:39]
 
san747
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:45 pm

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 21):

Feel free to criticize my beliefs. After all, I am just a Christian. I'm pretty much the only person you're allowed to criticize nowadays.

Boohoo. You're a member of the most populous faith in the most religiously tolerant country in the world. How cruelly you are mistreated.

Quoting Mir (Reply 25):

It's not the only factor for sure, but the idea that we can do whatever we want in terms of emissions and it makes no difference at all is pure fantasy.

  

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 36):
I think it's shocking that people actually complain about his opinions...we have a little thing called freedom of speech, which allows him to say these things

No one is complaining about the fact that he said what he did. It's great that he and I free to speak our minds in this country, but it doesn't mean he (or I) is free from people reacting to it. Don't want to take heat for what you say? Don't say it.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 36):
And after all, the vast majority of Americans believe this, he's just reflecting the opinions of the People.

The VAST majority of Americans, even those who don't believe in global warming, do NOT believe what he said. Nice try though.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
TWFirst
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:48 pm

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):
God will save us from climate change: U.S. Representative




In other news, Zorkon the supreme omnipotent ruler of the 3rd level of Terrastria (of which earth resides of course), has decreed that Chevy Suburbans must be worshipped with burnt offerings of sage and small pigeons on the third Thursday of each month.


Sigh... so, tell me again how hard is it to immigrate to Canada? Can't this guy and Bachmann and Palin and all the rest of the crucifix cult just... go have an orgy together or something and stay out of politics??
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
KPDX
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:58 pm

Quoting san747 (Reply 45):
Don't want to take heat for what you say? Just believe everything Al Gore and his buddies say.

Fixed.

    
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:16 pm

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 36):
.we have a little thing called freedom of speech, which allows him to say these things.

And MY freedom of speech allows me to disagree AND criticize what he thinks.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 41):
But even if what you said were true, the thing about science is that it's open to new information and to revision. Disprove a hypothesis and it goes away.

the same cannot be said of religion.

        
Shame there's not a higher than respected user list. If there was one, you'd be added to it.
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DocLightning
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RE: Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change

Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:07 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 40):

So whichever one you subscribe too, slight global warming shouldn't be a big issue. The corrections are already in place, and they are far beyond what human beings can control.

Has it occurred to you that the "corrective process" might be the collapse of human civilization?
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan

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