TheCommodore
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:23 am

Oh my,

What next ?  Wow!

Things are not looking good at all for these banks, whoever they might be ?

Goldmans were mentioned in the interview, but Assange did not confirm one way or the other.

I wonder whats going to come out when he reveals all in the leaks,not just the banks, but the corporate world too ?

Might be time to pull your money out for a while, at least until it blows over.

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/tec...-a-bank-or-two-20101130-18emh.html
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
ltbewr
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:31 am

I wonder if it could be Bank of America, which has been in a lot of trouble over the Countrywide deal and a major figure in the mortgage mess due to their buyout of them. Some would love BoA to get it. It's just too bad the info will ruin the bank, but I hope it ruins the executives that really made the deals on the mortgage market that will really ruin it.
 
connies4ever
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:35 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 1):
I wonder if it could be Bank of America, which has been in a lot of trouble over the Countrywide deal and a major figure in the mortgage mess due to their buyout of them. Some would love BoA to get it. It's just too bad the info will ruin the bank, but I hope it ruins the executives that really made the deals on the mortgage market that will really ruin it

Tend to agree. I always thought the senior managers/execs at banks had a fiduciary responsibility towards the stockholders to act in the best interest of them, not themselves. That means more conservative loan/mortgage practices, for one thing. Not screwing with the stock price to get the P/E up and max out their options/bonuses.
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Aaron747
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:36 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 1):
It's just too bad the info will ruin the bank, but I hope it ruins the executives that really made the deals on the mortgage market that will really ruin it.

No idea what that sentence was supposed to say  
Quoting TheCommodore (Thread starter):
Goldmans were mentioned in the interview, but Assange did not confirm one way or the other.

Oh boy, Sachs is already settling privately with the government on various fraud charges. This could get excited - competitors must be salivating.

Something tells me a few bank CEOs are going to sprout a few new grey hairs in the coming weeks.
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deltaownsall
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:44 am

Because bringing down behemoth banks is really a service to the people?   Crook bankers absolutely deserve to be held accountable for their actions, but "Too big to fail" is not just a tag-line to fool main street, and we'll all feel the pain if a bank like BAC actually falls. Are any of us are still under the delusion that Assange really wants to help anyone but himself?

[Edited 2010-11-29 19:48:26]
 
TheCommodore
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:52 am

Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 4):
Because bringing down behemoth banks is really a service to the people? Crook executives absolutely deserve to be held accountable for their actions, but "Too big to fail" is not just a tag-line to fool main street, and we'll all feel the pain if a bank like BAC actually falls. Are any of us are still under the delusion that Assange really wants to help anyone but himself?

If what you say is correct, "and we'll all feel the pain" I presume you mean Assange too. Then I can't see this will help him in any way ?
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
deltaownsall
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:59 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 5):

I'd imagine he'd be a little more prepared than most of us. But I didn't mean to imply that he'd gain financially, though I'm sure there is a way that could be arranged. Assange seems to run more on narcissism and some sort of power complex than anything else.
 
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cpd
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:23 am

So depending on which banks are involved, and which other banks have exposure to the dodgy banks, we might we have to withdraw all of our funds ahead of that. Better yet, let's all do that anyway. We'll have a financial disaster.
 
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Dreadnought
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:00 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 5):
If what you say is correct, "and we'll all feel the pain" I presume you mean Assange too. Then I can't see this will help him in any way ?

The average person would be hurt, but just like George Soros did when he took down the British Pound, if you know what's coming and put your funds in the right place, you can make a ton.

This guy is dangerous. There is no knowing how many people have already died because of his leaks (probably hundreds, by now), and if the guy starts getting his kicks by destroying businesses costing thousands or even millions of people their jobs and investments, then I say it's time for him to be taken out of the picture, one way or another.
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Mir
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:15 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
This guy is dangerous. There is no knowing how many people have already died because of his leaks (probably hundreds, by now), and if the guy starts getting his kicks by destroying businesses costing thousands or even millions of people their jobs and investments, then I say it's time for him to be taken out of the picture, one way or another.

If not him, it would be someone else. What you're really talking about doing is taking the internet out of the picture. And that's not happening.

-Mir
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Aaron747
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:28 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
There is no knowing how many people have already died because of his leaks (probably hundreds, by now), and if the guy starts getting his kicks by destroying businesses costing thousands or even millions of people their jobs and investments, then I say it's time for him to be taken out of the picture, one way or another.

You're still missing the point with all this knee-jerk blame the messenger stuff. In the internet age, it is increasingly impossible to hide wrongdoing. Henceforth, the basic MO should be - don't do anything you don't want the public to find out about. Whistleblowing is not a new practice, but in this vein, it is an entirely different animal than it once was. Swifter, more penetrating, and with rapid results from a PR standpoint. Offing a guy or two is only going to bolster public reactions to this kind of activity.
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Dreadnought
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:53 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 10):

You're still missing the point with all this knee-jerk blame the messenger stuff. In the internet age, it is increasingly impossible to hide wrongdoing.

What??? Are you saying that US officials should not be sending frank assessments of their counterparts to their superiors? That they shouldn't report who they feel has the influence and who doesn't on different topics? If diplomats cannot act discretely, do you think that Nixon could have opened up China, or that Begin and Sadat would have signed a peace agreement?

There is no redeeming value of these leaks. People will die because of them in large numbers.
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Pyrex
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:25 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):
What??? Are you saying that US officials should not be sending frank assessments of their counterparts to their superiors? That they shouldn't report who they feel has the influence and who doesn't on different topics? If diplomats cannot act discretely, do you think that Nixon could have opened up China, or that Begin and Sadat would have signed a peace agreement?

Some people just don't understand that there is no diplomacy other than "back-door diplomacy". By its very nature diplomacy must be secret. But then again, I am sure there are people who believe diplomatic cable should be replaced by Twitter, so there's nothing we can do to reason with them.

The ironic things is that this is being released by a guy who claims to be doing this because he is against war, which must mean he is a) pro-diplomacy or b) pro-taking a shaft like a man and turning the other face. If a), then he just set back the very alternative he defends multiple decades.
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mbmbos
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:52 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):
People will die because of them in large numbers.

Thanks for that expert speculation.

Can I play the people-will-die card too?
 
Flighty
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:48 pm

People die for lots of reasons. The truth, being one reason. Occasionally it's good for people to see the truth. Regarding wars, I can't see that Assange has invaded a single country. Just because the truth causes an uproar, does not negate the importance of knowing it. As a democracy, I see a benefit to leaks. Even the international relations... it seemed cleansing, more than anything. The world has a lot of crises right now, and we need a new perspective.
 
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Aaron747
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:07 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):
Are you saying that US officials should not be sending frank assessments of their counterparts to their superiors? That they shouldn't report who they feel has the influence and who doesn't on different topics? If diplomats cannot act discretely, do you think that Nixon could have opened up China, or that Begin and Sadat would have signed a peace agreement?

I was actually referring to the banking industry in the post you quoted. I've expressed my misgivings about the diplomatic cables in the other thread - it makes the US look bad because whether it was an Army intel guy who did it (as the case may be) or someone in the DOS, it presents the appearance of total lack of control over our own people and intel. However the silver lining is that all this backroom stuff gets put out in the open and instead of 10 years of debate over Iran, perhaps now someone will simply do something dumb and accelerate the process.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):
People will die because of them in large numbers.

People die because of hamburgers too - not sure what the point of this is.
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deltaownsall
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:46 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 15):
People die because of hamburgers too - not sure what the point of this is.

Logical fallacy. The fact that someone will eventually/inevitably die of some indeterminable cause doesn't make killing them or risking their life today any more justifiable. Kind of ironic in regards to the wikileaks video release earlier this year, entitled "Collateral Murder."
 
mbmbos
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:16 pm

Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 16):
The fact that someone will eventually/inevitably die of some indeterminable cause doesn't make killing them or risking their life today any more justifiable.

Actually, your sentence above seems to point to fallacious reasoning. "Eventually/inevitably die" from some "indeterminable" cause? If the words "eventual", "inevitable", and "indeterminable" are all in one sentence how can one assert cause and effect? You're already acknowledging, by basis of your sentence, that they are indirectly linked.

So we make rules about things based on speculative, indirect, eventual, indeterminable links?
 
deltaownsall
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:42 pm

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 17):

Substitute "indeterminable cause" with "hamburgers"   How easy is it to prove cause and effect in a "death by hamburgers" situation, anyways?

Taking a step back from the philosophical abyss, there is little speculation over the inevitability of death. The inevitability, however, does not mean that you can say "well, if I hadn't shot him today, something (hamburgers, perhaps) would have gotten him eventually, so it's ok." Or "lots of things can kill you, so it's of little matter if a wikileaks release gets you shot today instead of you dying of old age 50 years from now." Cause of death does matter, right?

Similarly, an uncontained failure of a major bank could very well cause a catastrophic collapse of the global financial system, causing huge loss of wealth (not just for the fatcats) all around the world, even worse unemployment, etc.

[Edited 2010-11-30 11:43:52]
 
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Aaron747
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:49 pm

Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 16):
The fact that someone will eventually/inevitably die of some indeterminable cause doesn't make killing them or risking their life today any more justifiable.
Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 18):
How easy is it to prove cause and effect in a "death by hamburgers" situation, anyways?

Very. Coronary artery disease is the leading cause of death in the United States, and is primarily caused by the large deposits of saturated fats found in red meat and hydrogenated cooking oils. Still not sure how that claim had any weight.
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mbmbos
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:57 pm

Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 18):
The inevitability, however, does not mean that you can say "well, if I hadn't shot him today, something (hamburgers, perhaps) would have gotten him eventually, so it's ok."

And I think you're missing a vital point. Using your example above - "...if I hadn't shot him today...", you are assuming that leaks have definitely led to deaths or will lead to deaths. You've made quite a leap. Even the Pentagon has acknowledged there are no known deaths due to the leaks. So you've skipped past an important step.

Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 18):
Similarly, an uncontained failure of a major bank...

Once again, disclosures by Wikileaks about insolvency leading to financial ruin will always be merely conjecture. Did the leak speed the inevitable process up or did it cause the failure?

Are you willing to sacrifice truth and full disclosure based on speculation? That is truly an authoritarian mode of thinking.
 
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Aaron747
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:03 pm

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 20):
Are you willing to sacrifice truth and full disclosure based on speculation? That is truly an authoritarian mode of thinking.

Seriously couldn't have put it better.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
deltaownsall
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:16 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 19):
Coronary artery disease is the leading cause of death in the United States, and is primarily caused by the large deposits of saturated fats found in red meat and hydrogenated cooking oils.

Of course, but 100% correlation is impossible. How likely is it that a chronic hamburger eater kept a healthy overall lifestyle? That eating hamburgers was his only unhealthy habit? I realize that you were just throwing hamburgers out there to prove a separate point, but so was I. We don't want to get too off track here...

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 20):
And I think you're missing a vital point. Using your example above - "...if I hadn't shot him today...", you are assuming that leaks have definitely led to deaths or will lead to deaths. You've made quite a leap.

Fair enough. I agree that we (or at least I) don't know of any specific deaths as a result of wikileaks yet. For this reason you can say that I was speaking hypothetically in the case that the leaks have or at least will in the future cause at least one death, which I still think is very likely.

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 20):
Did the leak speed the inevitable process up or did it cause the failure?

I'm not sure exactly what we'll be getting from the leaks, but in the fragile/panicky world of finance, loss of confidence in an institution, state, etc. can certainly cause a collapse where there would not have otherwise been one.

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 20):
Are you willing to sacrifice truth and full disclosure based on speculation? That is truly an authoritarian mode of thinking.

Call it authoritarian if you like, but I have no problem declaring on the record that 100% transparency across the board is irresponsible and dangerous. Still, there is a great divide between life under the "Washington" government, and life under truly authoritarian regimes.
 
mbmbos
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:33 pm

Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 22):
...can certainly cause a collapse where there would not have otherwise been one.

And yet this is still a speculative statement. Fact free no less. Certainly, a lot of things can cause other things to happen. Do you really think the world is safer and more financially secure because of limited disclosure?

Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 22):
Still, there is a great divide between life under the "Washington" government, and life under truly authoritarian regimes.

The "great divide" has gotten a whole lot narrower.
 
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Dreadnought
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:12 am

The US administration does not seem to be too interested in going after Assange, but it appears the Russians are pissed.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...-russians-play-by-different-rules/

Quote:
American intelligence and law-enforcement agencies, outraged by their inability to stop WikiLeaks and its release this week of hundreds of thousands of sensitive U.S. diplomatic cables, are convinced that the whistleblowing website is about to come up against an adversary that will stop at nothing to shut it down: the Russian government.

As U.S. officials struggle to control damage from the secret cables exposed by Wikileaks, Russia is planning to block a similar dump about the Kremlin.

National-security officials say that the National Security Agency, the U.S. government’s eavesdropping agency, has already picked up tell-tale electronic evidence that WikiLeaks is under close surveillance by the Russian FSB, that country’s domestic spy network, out of fear in Moscow that WikiLeaks is prepared to release damaging personal information about Kremlin leaders.

....

Assange has courted attacks from the Russian government, telling a reporter from the pro-government daily newspaper Izvestia last month that WikiLeaks had obtained damaging information “about Russia, about your government and businessmen” and “we will publish these materials soon.” Another WikiLeaks spokesman was quoted as describing the Russian government as “despotic.”

.....

Russian intelligence agencies have suggested, none too subtly, that WikiLeaks could be destroyed through cyberwarfare methods if the whistleblowing site did begin to create trouble in Moscow. Last month, the Russian news agency Life News quoted an official from the FSB’s Center for Information Security as saying that the government would be capable of organizing “the right team” to target WikiLeaks and “shut it down forever.”

And within an hour of this report the Wikileak site was brought down:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/11/...eaks-hit-by-powerful-cyber-attack/
What's the Russian version of 'cement overshoes'?

Assange has the arrogance, narcissism, and stupidity to follow through with his threats and the Russians won’t have any of it I’m thinking. Even now he is lecturing Hillary Clinton to resign:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2033771,00.html

In his twisted mind he thinks he has the world on its knees, and while Obama is most certainly a man who can be pushed around, I find it highly unlikely Vladimir Putin is (as much as I dislike him).
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
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Aaron747
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:35 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 24):
The US administration does not seem to be too interested in going after Assange, but it appears the Russians are pissed.

Well of course not - remember what Ahmedinejad said? This is all a big CIA psy-op designed to turn the world against Iran. LOL
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Yellowstone
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:08 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 24):
Assange has the arrogance, narcissism, and stupidity to follow through with his threats and the Russians won’t have any of it I’m thinking.

More important than any arrogance, narcissism, or stupidity - he has the ability to follow through with his threats. It is impossible to expunge data from the Internet, if there are enough people who want that data to be out there.

Wikileaks has for the past several months had available for download a so-called "insurance file." It's encrypted, so that no one aside from Wikileaks knows its contents. If anything untoward should happen to Mr. Assange, the other employees of Wikileaks have instructions to release various decryption keys that give access to different parts of the insurance file.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
deltaownsall
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:30 am

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 23):
And yet this is still a speculative statement.

We are still talking about an event that we don't know much about, which may happen in the future. I don't see any way around speculation if we're going to discuss the "big bank" leak, especially at such a colloquial level as non-av  

Mostly I'm offended by Assange's brazen "I could take one or two banks down" comment that suggests very little morality, maturity, humility, empathy, etc.

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 23):
The "great divide" has gotten a whole lot narrower.

I appreciate the debate, and it's very important to protect our rights, but I can't agree with this statement. The very fact that we can openly debate this subject on the internet with full access to whatever the internet has to offer with no worries of ramifications from the government puts us way ahead of a number of other countries, and we shouldn't take these things for granted. I'm not saying that we have to be satisfied with a low baseline of rights, but we have to maintain perspective in regards to the billions of other people in the world who truly do not enjoy such freedoms.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 24):

I was beginning to wonder why wikileaks has failed to target any other governments on such a high profile level...
 
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RayChuang
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:52 am

I want to see if Wikileaks can dig up "dirt" on the Goldman Sachs dealings since 1999 that has caused so much financial grief around the world.

I think Goldman Sachs used a series of complex credit default swaps to make it possible for Greece to join the Eurozone. If Wikileaks confirms that is true, the EU could go after Goldman Sachs for securities and monetary fraud that could run in the TRILLIONS of Euros defrauded out of the EU economy with the current financial crisis there.

I were Mr. Assange, I'd go into hiding RIGHT NOW because unlike the Americans, the Russians may have no qualms about taking him down in a quite drastic manner, especially given the history of Soviet-era counter-intelligence operations.
 
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Aaron747
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:29 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 28):
I think Goldman Sachs used a series of complex credit default swaps to make it possible for Greece to join the Eurozone. If Wikileaks confirms that is true, the EU could go after Goldman Sachs for securities and monetary fraud that could run in the TRILLIONS of Euros defrauded out of the EU economy with the current financial crisis there.

Jesus H. Christ, where did you come up with that idea? Intriguing, to say the least.
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TheRedBaron
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:14 am

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 13):

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):
People will die because of them in large numbers.

Thanks for that expert speculation.

Can I play the people-will-die card too?

I want to play too...did you know that deaths cause by cold are 10 times higher than those by heat?...

Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 22):
Call it authoritarian if you like, but I have no problem declaring on the record that 100% transparency across the board is irresponsible and dangerous. Still, there is a great divide between life under the "Washington" government, and life under truly authoritarian regimes.

100% transparency is required for a government to be FROM THE PEOPLE TO THE PEOPLE.
Governments that hide information for its own gain, are authoritarian regimes.
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CPH-R
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:33 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 26):
Wikileaks has for the past several months had available for download a so-called "insurance file." It's encrypted, so that no one aside from Wikileaks knows its contents. If anything untoward should happen to Mr. Assange, the other employees of Wikileaks have instructions to release various decryption keys that give access to different parts of the insurance file.

You mean to tell me that WikiLeaks, that beacon of openness is keeping secrets of their own? By their own standards, that file should have been decrypted and publicized right from their beginning...  
 
Pyrex
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WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:45 pm

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 30):
100% transparency is required for a government to be FROM THE PEOPLE TO THE PEOPLE.
Governments that hide information for its own gain, are authoritarian regimes.

Tell me this, yes or no: from now on should all diplomatic business be conducted on Twitter instead of diplomatic cable? Come on, simple question, simple answer, don't be a hypocrite and cop out.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:42 am

yes. A democratic country that respects other countries doesnt need secrets and backstabbing and such.

Remember that 150 years ago someone said:

The respect for the other's right's, means peace.

IF wikileaks were making public, anti narcotics or organized crime secrets public, it would be reprehensible.

and now to put the ball on your side of the court:


Tell me this, yes or no: from now on should all diplomatic business -that end on a false war and invasions of sovereign countries, blaming nonexistant weapons of mass destruction be conducted on Twitter instead of diplomatic cable? Come on, simple question, simple answer, don't be a hypocrite and cop out.


you turn.
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Aaron747
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RE: WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:18 am

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 33):
yes. A democratic country that respects other countries doesnt need secrets and backstabbing and such.

Remember that 150 years ago someone said:

The respect for the other's right's, means peace.

Um the nature of realpolitik, which is how nations conduct their business, demands holding things in confidence and playing sides to get the desired result. If everything were out in the open, all every country would have to do is pay a couple people to watch words fly on the internet and they could base decisions on that without ever talking to anyone. Sounds a little - sterile - for lack of a better word.
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Flighty
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RE: WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:30 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 34):
Sounds a little - sterile - for lack of a better word.

I agree that private citizens should enjoy a little privacy. But governments, neither here nor there. This is a little bit like embarrassing Facebook photos. The best way to avoid it is, conduct oneself in a way that will look ok when it is splashed online.

If diplomats are saying such dangerous things, maybe they shouldn't be saying them. Increased openness of governments might be an overall benefit, causing them to be on better behavior. This goes for our legislature for example. If lobbyists are visiting lawmakers, why not let the people watch it take place, and see transcripts. It's not their private bedroom.

If we are bribing third world dictators with endless weapons or cocaine or what have you, why not put it online. I would like to watch it.
 
Pyrex
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RE: WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:42 pm

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 33):
yes. A democratic country that respects other countries doesnt need secrets and backstabbing and such.

Wow, can't believe you actually took the bait. So you actually believe that there should be no government e-mail addresses? Any time anyone working for a government ever needs something they should just change their Facebook status update or write on their wall? Twit(er) indeed.

BTW, if you live in a country with government-run healthcare I assume that total transparency applies to your medical records, etc. as well, correct?

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 33):
Tell me this, yes or no: from now on should all diplomatic business -that end on a false war and invasions of sovereign countries, blaming nonexistant weapons of mass destruction be conducted on Twitter instead of diplomatic cable? Come on, simple question, simple answer, don't be a hypocrite and cop out.

Why the heck should I cop out? I am not a Twit, so the answer is obviously no.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 35):
If diplomats are saying such dangerous things, maybe they shouldn't be saying them. Increased openness of governments might be an overall benefit, causing them to be on better behavior.

Well, and that is precisely what the effect of this is going to be. People will stop putting stuff down in writing, which will lead to more misunderstandings, lost communications and eventually maybe even war. Nobody will stop commenting on Khadaffi's voluptuous Ukrainian nurse, though, if that is what you are implying. Congrats, Julien Assange, for setting back the art of diplomacy 200 years.
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RE: WikiLeaks: Banks, Dec 2010

Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:57 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 36):


Wow, can't believe you actually took the bait. So you actually believe that there should be no government e-mail addresses? Any time anyone working for a government ever needs something they should just change their Facebook status update or write on their wall? Twit(er) indeed.

I guess you are a true diplomat since I never said that government should NOT have Emails. Kind of saying that they need to use invisible ink so we never will know what they are doing? I think you need to put a better bait since I never implied that, so please reread my post.

To explain myself better so you understand, If governments or diplomats behave in questionable ways or break international law they should be exposed and punished, secrecy should not protect those who do not deserve it.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 36):
BTW, if you live in a country with government-run healthcare I assume that total transparency applies to your medical records, etc. as well, correct?

Again, I would not have any trouble making my medical record public since I have nothing to hide, what is funny is that I have private insurance and they gave me a full med evaluation, then 2 years latter I changed Insurance company and they did not evaluate me since they obtained the records from the other company (did I get mad? NO because AGAIN I have nothing to hide)

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 36):
Well, and that is precisely what the effect of this is going to be.

wow, so now you can predict the future. In fact I think stupid people on diplomatic assignement will be more careful.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 36):
People will stop putting stuff down in writing, which will lead to more misunderstandings, lost communications and eventually maybe even war.

War, because they cant write? In fact more wars have started using false documents and using documents to start wars not the other way around.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 36):
Nobody will stop commenting on Khadaffi's voluptuous Ukrainian nurse, though, if that is what you are implying. Congrats, Julien Assange, for setting back the art of diplomacy 200 years.

Art of diplomacy? commenting on a nurse, that is what gossip websites are for.
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