futurepilot16
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Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:20 pm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40559236/ns/us_news-wikileaks_in_security/

Now...    I could have sworn this guy was all about exposing the truth and whistleblowing and all that other stuff. Why are his supporters attacking visa and mastercard websites? It's as if they think it's a huge game and their purpose is to gain as much notoriety as possible!

As I said before, the guy and his group of minions aren't anything but a bunch of attention seeking criminals.

[Edited 2010-12-08 15:21:02]
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
Kent350787
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:31 pm

They're attacking the websites because the companies (and paypal) have pulled their services from Wikileaks.

Although some of the cables didn't do Rudd (our former Prime Minister, now foreign minister) any favours, even he said that

"Mr Assange is not himself responsible for the unauthorised release of 250,000 documents from the US diplomatic communications network. The Americans are responsible for that,"

[Edited 2010-12-08 15:37:55]
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:39 pm

No of course not. The day after Assange get's arrested, computer hackers take over Visa and Mastercard websites, and post messages on said websites in support of wikileaks and Assange and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with Assange? That's what you're trying to tell me? Well...I guess it's probably the US go't using propaganda to lead supporters away from wikileaks, that HAS to be it.

Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 2):
They're attacking the websites because the companies (and paypal) have pulled their services from Wikileaks.

I figured that out, but do they realize the fact that some of these companies don't want their names associated with controversial events? If people are using paypal to support wikileaks, paypal, visa, mastercard, amazon, they're all gonna pull wikileaks' account, simple as that.

It's cyber terrorism is what it is, getting Americans riled up because this criminal get's arrested.

[Edited 2010-12-09 02:36:41 by SA7700]
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
Kent350787
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:43 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 4):

It's cyber terrorism is what it is, getting Americans riled up because this criminal get's arrested.

He has been arrested on charges of sexual assault, which ought to be tried in a Swedish court if a case can be made by the prosecution.

Where is the criminality of Wikileaks? I'm with our Foreign Minister on this one.....

[Edited 2010-12-08 15:49:55]
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:48 pm

He is a criminal in the sense that he's a computer hacker and so are his followers. They get together in a dark basement and try to hack into gov't websites, and otherwise try to disrupt the inner workings of every day society.

What I DIDN'T say however was the fact that he is guilty in this sense of stealing any information, espionage against the US, Rape, or even posession of stolen goods. I don't think he's guilty of any of these things even the rape. But do I think he is a ischievous criminal hell bent on getting attention? Absolutely.

With him being Australian at all, it doesn't surprise me that you would find him to be somewhat of a martyr, his website airing America's dirty laundry for your amusement, even though the airing of that dirty laundry has probably hurt Australia as well.

[Edited 2010-12-09 02:39:06 by SA7700]
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
Zentraedi
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:49 pm

Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 2):
They're attacking the websites because the companies (and paypal) have pulled their services from Wikileaks.

I wouldn't support the attacks on Visa and Mastercard if they had stated their reasons were purely business.

Paypal on the other hand deserves to get taken down. Not only they stop processing transactions, but they actually seize money, and sit on it collecting interest. In several cases they actually empty people's bank accounts for arbitrary reasons, freeze the funds, and force the rightful owners through a carnival game of hoops in order to get their money back. I wouldn't be surprised if Paypal were still collecting money for Wikileaks, but not passing it on.
 
hka098
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:50 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 4):
No of course not. The day after Assange get's arrested, computer hackers take over Visa and Mastercard websites, and post messages on said websites in support of wikileaks and Assange and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with Assange? That's what you're trying to tell me? Well...I guess it's probably the US go't using propaganda to lead supporters away from wikileaks, that HAS to be it.

Do you think Assange told them to do this, or even anyone at Wikileaks for that matter? You give the Wikileaks crew and Anonymous too much credit for being an organized criminal outfit. The U.S. Govt. is leveraging pressure on these companies and others, to cut-off anything Wikileaks related. They are trying to kill Wikileaks' source of funding. Little do they realize that online donations are not the only way Wikileaks obtains funding. This is all politics now...
 
deltaownsall
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:56 pm

Welcome to the new era of internet anarchy. The U.S. and (mostly) American companies might be the big targets right now, but I wouldn't be surprised to see these faceless internet "vigilantes" continue to expand their scope as they move on to promote chaos and general statelessness over the next decade +. It's not only states that love power...
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:59 pm

Quoting HKA098 (Reply 10):

Do you think Assange told them to do this, or even anyone at Wikileaks for that matter? You give the Wikileaks crew and Anonymous too much credit for being an organized criminal outfit. The U.S. Govt. is leveraging pressure on these companies and others, to cut-off anything Wikileaks related. They are trying to kill Wikileaks' source of funding. Little do they realize that online donations are not the only way Wikileaks obtains funding. This is all politics now...

No i don't think Assange told them to do this. I just believe that there a small group of people who will do anything to support this guy. What happens when these hackers decide to get off their computers and do something more sinister?
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
hka098
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:17 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 14):
What happens when these hackers decide to get off their computers and do something more sinister?

The only time most hackers get away from their computers is to get coffee, use the bathroom, or get more barbecue flavored potato chips. Anything sinister coming from the hackers I know, will be through a keyboard. Think Justin Long in Die Hard 4. Also, these folks are usually smart enough to know that physically attacking something important is a great way to get caught.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:21 am

There is no doubt that those hacking Visa and MasterCard's websites is illegal and morally wrong, all who do that should face criminal penalties.

Here is what gets to me about these cutoffs: Both Visa and MC have cancelled any processing of payments to Wikileaks yet both process payments for prostitution, gentlemen's clubs, porn sites (including those with very perverse subjects and possibility illegal child porn) and other products and services that may be far worse than Wikileaks releases.

To me both Visa and MC (along with Paypal) either got told by the Federal Government to cut Wikileaks off or else they will face penalties or the bosses of them were fearful of that happening so used their rules to cut them off.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:41 am

Protesting the arrest of Assange is one thing, but deliberately interfering with a business website is a serious crime in multiple countries that could lead to long jail terms. In short, those "hacktivists"---if caught--now could be facing a long stay in the "grey bar motel" for this.
 
Quokka
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:03 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 7):
They get together in a dark basement and try to hack into gov't websites, and otherwise try to disrupt the inner workings of every day society.


You've been watching too many movies. Why would they need a dark basement when you can hack from anywhere?

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 7):
him being Australian at all

Actually it has nothing to do with his nationality and your argument could be reversed: you are only upset because he appears to have targeted the US. If he had targeted Iran or China, would anyone (apart from Iran and China) be criticising him?


Quoting ltbewr (Reply 17):
yet both process payments for prostitution, gentlemen's clubs, porn sites

Yes, it does seem strange that suddenly the web host and now paypal and MasterCard discover a breach of their terms of use but seem not to notice far more serious breaches. Will MasterCard block online subscriptions to other media producers who have published the file, like Der Spiegel, The Guardian and others in the US? If the stated reason is true they should be consistant. What about blocking payments to satellite and cable TV channels, will they do that?
 
hka098
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:46 am

Twitter just shut down the @anon_operation account, which was being used to coordinate activities against Master Card and Visa.
 
RottenRay
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:51 am

Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 8):
I wouldn't support the attacks on Visa and Mastercard if they had stated their reasons were purely business.

Paypal on the other hand deserves to get taken down.


But it's okay to tamper with a legitimate financial system which hundreds of people worldwide rely on?

And it's up to you to decide whether someone should take PayPal down?




Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 8):
In several cases they actually empty people's bank accounts for arbitrary reasons, freeze the funds, and force the rightful owners through a carnival game of hoops in order to get their money back.


Source?

PayPal cannot "empty someone's bank account." The most they can do is freeze someone's PayPal account.



Which is, if anything, a little worse.

Let me explain.

It takes LOTS of computers connected to the internet to create a denial of service attack.

This is why these hacker jerks write viruii and trojans - some personal computers will become infected without the rightful owner noticing, and then can be used as "bots" to conduct a focused attack.

These hackers are not freedom fighters, they are deceitful malcontents who hope to profit by essentially stealing the use of a lot of personal computers and using this legion en masse.



 



Cheers!

[Edited 2010-12-09 04:28:54 by SA7700]
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:36 am

Quoting rottenray (Reply 28):
It takes LOTS of computers connected to the internet to create a denial of service attack.

This is why these hacker jerks write viruii and trojans - some personal computers will become infected without the rightful owner noticing, and then can be used as "bots" to conduct a focused attack.

These hackers are not freedom fighters, they are deceitful malcontents who hope to profit by essentially stealing the use of a lot of personal computers and using this legion en masse.

There's no evidence that the DDoS attacks against visa.com, mastercard.com, PayPal, etc. have involved the use of illegal botnets. Rather, what you're seeing is thousands of people using their own computers to carry out the attack. It's really easy, too - just download LOIC ( http://sourceforge.net/projects/loic/ ), type in the address you want to flood with requests, and away you go. LOIC also allows you to turn control over to a central computer via IRC, allowing the formation of voluntary botnets for better-coordinated attacks.

Quoting rottenray (Reply 28):
But it's okay to tamper with a legitimate financial system which hundreds of people worldwide rely on?

Let's be clear - the DDoS attacks took down visa.com and mastercard.com. They did not affect any of the two companies' transaction processing activities.


Yep! It's called the Streisand effect. In the early 2000s, Barbra Streisand sued to have a photo of her home on the California coast taken off the Internet. Not only did she lose, but the photo spread to so many other websites due to the publicity she gave it that millions of people saw the photo who otherwise would not have.

To quote EFF founder John Gilmore: the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.

[Edited 2010-12-09 04:37:29 by SA7700]
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QANTAS077
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:52 am

Quoting rottenray (Reply 28):
But it's okay to tamper with a legitimate financial system which hundreds of people worldwide rely on?

lol..the irony of this statement.
 
Quokka
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:57 am

Today the Guardian published a cable showing that the US had gone in to bat for MasterCard and Visa when Russia was setting up changes to the way payments were processed and fees collected. See http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...ikileaks-us-russia-visa-mastercard

As one comment puts it, "Freedom of speech, priceless. For everything else there is MasterCard".
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:48 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 2):
I figured that out, but do they realize the fact that some of these companies don't want their names associated with controversial events?

Well, at least Mastercard and Visa don't have any problems to attend the Ku-Klux-Clan.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/k...-klux-klan-als-wikileaks-1.1033641

Quote:
Auf der Internetseite der Knights Party (The Knights of the Ku Klux Klan) heißt es: "Spenden Sie online mit Ihrer Visa/Mastercard". Einzige Voraussetzung der Extremisten: Der Geldgeber möge "weiß und nicht von gemischtrassiger Abstammung sein." Auch ein "nicht weißer" Ehepartner ist ein Ausschlussgrund.
...
On the internet site of the Knights party (The Knights OF the Ku Klux Klan) they write: "Donate on-line with your Visa/Mastercard". The only requirements of the extremists are: "The donor must be white and not of interracial descent." and also "a not white spouse is a reason for an exclusion.

Obviously there is no political pressure in the US not to cooperate with fascists.

Axel  
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aloges
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:18 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 2):
It's cyber terrorism is what it is, getting Americans riled up because this criminal get's arrested.

Oh dear... that word gets thrown around lightly these days. It's cyber "terrorism" to paralyse the advertising/information website of a company?

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 17):
Let's be clear - the DDoS attacks took down visa.com and mastercard.com. They did not affect any of the two companies' transaction processing activities.

If anyone had attacked the actual transaction systems, we could start talking about the "terrorism" moniker. But so far, the only harm done is that a few people were unable to check out the latest "GREAT OFFERS!" on mastercard.com.  
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:28 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 21):
Oh dear... that word gets thrown around lightly these days. It's cyber "terrorism" to paralyse the advertising/information website of a company?

I could be nasty and refer you to Bertolt Brecht´s play "Mahagonny".   

Jan
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NAV20
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:47 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 8):
No i don't think Assange told them to do this. I just believe that there a small group of people who will do anything to support this guy.

Well, according to this ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) poll - 'Web Poll,' top right, vote if you care to - 83.5% of respondents so far consider Assange to be a hero rather than a villain. Understandable really - after all (like the Eastern United States) we started off mainly as a repository for British convicts........  http://www.abc.net.au/newsradio/

I don't feel that strongly personally either way. But I AM concerned that the government of the United States seems to be able to say to people like Visa and Mastercard (both of which organisations I use occasionally) "Jump, you guys!" - and all THEY appear to say in reply is, "How high, Mr. President?"

[Edited 2010-12-09 05:02:14]
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speedygonzales
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:26 pm

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 15):
Let's be clear - the DDoS attacks took down visa.com and mastercard.com. They did not affect any of the two companies' transaction processing activities.

I was unable to pay with MC online yesterday, Visa worked fine. Don't know if it was related.
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RottenRay
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:55 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 21):
But I AM concerned that the government of the United States seems to be able to say to people like Visa and Mastercard (both of which organisations I use occasionally) "Jump, you guys!" - and all THEY appear to say in reply is, "How high, Mr. President?"


Sort of like your own ISPs...

Quote:
Internet censorship in Australia currently consists of a regulatory regime under which the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) has the power to enforce content restrictions on Internet content hosted within Australia, and maintain a "black-list" of overseas websites which is then provided for use in filtering software.
source: wikipedia




Quoting qantas077 (Reply 16):
Quoting rottenray (Reply 28):
But it's okay to tamper with a legitimate financial system which hundreds of people worldwide rely on?

lol..the irony of this statement.


Hundreds of millions, darnit! I meant hundreds of millions!



Cheers!
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:02 pm

Quoting rottenray (Reply 23):

Sort of like your own ISPs...

It's ok, i've long given up on expecting anyone to really understand what goes on here in the US. As I've said, a lot of these outsiders watch and listen to their own media's twisted views f the United States and for their own opinion on this country. Early on this thread I recalled a person from Australia claiming that the US shuts down newspapers and TV news networks and radio stations, just so they won't release information, and I almost puked when I saw this.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 21):
Well, according to this ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) poll - 'Web Poll,' top right, vote if you care to - 83.5% of respondents so far consider Assange to be a hero rather than a villain. Understandable really - after all (like the Eastern United States) we started off mainly as a repository for British convicts........ http://www.abc.net.au/newsradio/

Well let's see, If there was an American hacker who somehow got their hands on secret Australian files, and released them for the world to see, and these files showed evidence of abuse to aborigines and other ethnic groups as well as espionage against the US and other countries by Australia, i'm pretty sure I as an AMERICAN, would consider the guy who released this info, an AMERICAN, as a hero. You get what i'm saying?
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janmnastami
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:10 pm

Putin has just called the arrest of Assange "hypocrite and anti-democratic".
 
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mbmbos
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:38 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 24):
It's ok, i've long given up on expecting anyone to really understand what goes on here in the US.

I would recommend getting off your high horse and realize there a other points of view that are valid and worth considering. Your pedantic explanation of "what goes on here in the U.S." is presumptuous and your opinion is certainly not the final word. You might also be surprised to learn that many people on this forum who are not U.S. citizens know quite a lot about how our government functions. Unlike Americans, many foreigners pay attention to what happens outside their borders.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 24):
I've said, a lot of these outsiders watch and listen to their own media's twisted views...

You're kidding, right? Foreign media's twisted views? To quote from a book I've read, "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" If one were to listen strictly to main stream media in the U.S., they would be exposed to a constant stream of falsehoods.

Let's look at the Assange case, for example. Here are the following lies that have been perpetuated by the American media thus far:

- Wikileaks has released over 250,000 documents.
- Wikileaks has been indiscriminate in their release of the documents.
- CIA operatives have been killed because of their exposure in Wikileaks.

All three of these statements are patently untrue and yet they've been echoed throughout the media.

That is precisely why we need an organization like Wikileaks that exposes the populace to real information.

[Edited 2010-12-09 09:45:09]
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mham001
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:41 pm

Quoting janmnastami (Reply 25):
Putin has just called the arrest of Assange "hypocrite and anti-democratic".

Thats rich coming from a country where journalists critical of authority are routinely murdered.
 
hka098
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:47 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 27):
Thats rich coming from a country where journalists critical of authority are routinely murdered.

Exactly! I almost did a spittake when I read that one.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:04 pm

Quoting janmnastami (Reply 25):
Putin has just called the arrest of Assange "hypocrite and anti-democratic".

Putin... out of all people.   Who's next going to chime in? Chavez, Mugabe or Castro?
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:09 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 4):
He is a criminal in the sense that he's a computer hacker and so are his followers. They get together in a dark basement and try to hack into gov't websites, and otherwise try to disrupt the inner workings of every day society.
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 10):


There is no doubt that those hacking Visa and MasterCard's websites is illegal and morally wrong, all who do that should face criminal penalties.
Quoting rottenray (Reply 14):

These hackers are not freedom fighters, they are deceitful malcontents who hope to profit by essentially stealing the use of a lot of personal computers and using this legion en masse.
Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 15):

Let's be clear - the DDoS attacks took down visa.com and mastercard.com. They did not affect any of the two companies' transaction processing activities.
Quoting aloges (Reply 19):

If anyone had attacked the actual transaction systems, we could start talking about the "terrorism" moniker. But so far, the only harm done is that a few people were unable to check out the latest "GREAT OFFERS!" on mastercard.com.

        

That's it. Nobody's money got stolen, nobody's account was hacked into, nobody stole or accessed anyone else's private information, everybody's credit cards still worked fine. These attacks were no worse than closing a bank's parking lot. Annoying of course but it's not the end of the world for pete's sake  

And I'll have you know that these "barbarious cyber terrorists" are little more than a bunch of horny pre-pubescent teenagers with nothing better to do than pull pranks on society.  cheeky 

[Edited 2010-12-09 10:13:54]
 
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mayor
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:27 pm

Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 1):
"Mr Assange is not himself responsible for the unauthorised release of 250,000 documents from the US diplomatic communications network. The Americans are responsible for that,"

Not directly, no.......I can think of a certain Army PFC that has that responsibility. However, Assange is responsible for trafficking in the released material and it was his organization that actually released the material to the media. He's responible in the fact that if his organization wasn't available for this purpose, where would the "whistleblower" go to get the info out there? Mr. Assange's organization exists, solely for this purpose.

BTW, using the term "whistleblower" is probably being too kind and really isn't appropriate in this case. "Traitor" fits much better.
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janmnastami
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:35 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 24):
Early on this thread I recalled a person from Australia claiming that the US shuts down newspapers and TV news networks and radio stations, just so they won't release information, and I almost puked when I saw this.

You haven't understood what he wrote.
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:54 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 30):

So I guess because no harm was done, then it's absolutely positively ok to participate in this behavior, right? Let's see, on mischief night in high school, my friends and I would go around and let the air of people's tire and egg their car, but since nobody was harmed, I guess it would be ok with you as well right?

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 26):

I would recommend getting off your high horse and realize there a other points of view that are valid and worth considering. Your pedantic explanation of "what goes on here in the U.S." is presumptuous and your opinion is certainly not the final word. You might also be surprised to learn that many people on this forum who are not U.S. citizens know quite a lot about how our government functions. Unlike Americans, many foreigners pay attention to what happens outside their borders.

Oh give it a rest dude, seriously. They have absolutely no idea what's going on in this country and i'm sticking to that. They only read whatever their media puts then they form their own opinions. Where else in the world could they have heard such absurd things?

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 26):

- Wikileaks has released over 250,000 documents.
- Wikileaks has been indiscriminate in their release of the documents.
- CIA operatives have been killed because of their exposure in Wikileaks.

All three of these statements are patently untrue and yet they've been echoed throughout the media

   I have a headache. So YOU know for a FACT that wikileaks did not release 250,000 documents even though it was on their website???????????? WHAT ???????? Come one now seriously?

Also, find me one media link where anyone says that CIA agents have been killed because of wikileaks, just ONE link or example of that.

All these blatant lies, and i'm not surprised. Hell you people hate your own government so much that you'll go to war against them to protect a website that is only looking for attention, it's pathetic!
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
hka098
Posts: 532
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:50 pm

RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:02 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 33):
All these blatant lies, and i'm not surprised. Hell you people hate your own government so much that you'll go to war against them to protect a website that is only looking for attention, it's pathetic!

The U.S. Governement doesn't exactly love it's citizens. We are just tax ID's and cannon fodder to the folks on Capital Hill. I would not be surprised to learn at all, from the cables, that Australia has a very good idea of what's going on in the U.S. People in Australia can access the same type of news resources Americans can. There are probably better news agencies down-under. It doesn't take much to best the talking heads on the major American networks.

A point was made by Anonymous and it's colleagues, that the U.S. Government is not the only one with power to wield on the Internet.
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:05 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 33):

So I guess because no harm was done, then it's absolutely positively ok to participate in this behavior, right? Let's see, on mischief night in high school, my friends and I would go around and let the air of people's tire and egg their car, but since nobody was harmed, I guess it would be ok with you as well right?

As I said, it's an annoyance more than anything.

My point is, while I don't entirely condone their actions, people are making a mountain out of a molehill.
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 11907
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:13 pm

My previous post got deleted; basically what I said was that no matter what Wikileaks or the US Government has done, it's within the purview of a private company to decide they don't want to be associated with another entity. I truly don't see why that should result in hacking.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 30):
And I'll have you know that these "barbarious cyber terrorists" are little more than a bunch of horny pre-pubescent teenagers with nothing better to do than pull pranks on society.

Aren't you a member of that site???

  

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 30):
That's it. Nobody's money got stolen, nobody's account was hacked into, nobody stole or accessed anyone else's private information, everybody's credit cards still worked fine. These attacks were no worse than closing a bank's parking lot. Annoying of course but it's not the end of the world for pete's sake

Then what was the point?
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
User avatar
mbmbos
Posts: 2581
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 4:16 am

RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:23 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 33):
I have a headache. So YOU know for a FACT that wikileaks did not release 250,000 documents even though it was on their website???????????? WHAT ???????? Come one now seriously?

They have not released 250,000 documents. They've release about 1,000 documents thus far, the vast majority of which were released through media outlets first, such as The New York Times, Der Spiegel and The Guardian; and in the process sensitive information, such as personal names, were redacted according to those outlets' policies.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 33):
Also, find me one media link where anyone says that CIA agents have been killed

You're right, I can't find one that directly claims that. But I can find thousands that imply it has or will happen. I stand corrected.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 33):
Hell you people hate your own government...

Standard and dishonest accusation. If I criticize policy or action of our current government, then I HATE my own government.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 33):
They have absolutely no idea what's going on in this country and i'm sticking to that.

Well, I guess we'll just have to take your word for it...for whatever your word is worth.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
deltaownsall
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 3:25 pm

RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:27 pm

Quoting hka098 (Reply 34):
I would not be surprised to learn at all, from the cables, that Australia has a very good idea of what's going on in the U.S. People in Australia can access the same type of news resources Americans can. There are probably better news agencies down-under. It doesn't take much to best the talking heads on the major American networks.

This is kind of the point, though. It goes both ways. We can access anything anyone else can in the entire world. Both foreigners and Americans are freaking out here acting like our internet is censored, even as we criticize our government on an internet forum with absolutely no fear of "retribution." Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

So the government is concerned with a website that has basically become a platform for the spreading of secret/sensitive U.S. Government documents. Shouldn't they be? It's very important to remember that we, the citizens, are not being limited or treated differently in any way as a result of the wikileaks controversy/systematic targeting of our government, which is a lot more than we can say for billions of people in other countries. The constant comparisons that are floating around this message board of the U.S. government and its supposed "control" of the internet to that of say, China, are insulting not only to the U.S. public servants that continue to uphold our freedoms, but also to the CCP, who employs millions of cyber-warriors, hackers, etc. in order to actually control the internet, which they're proving to the rest of us might actually be possible. Most of all, though, it's insulting to the people that are actually mired under those regimes, and what they have to deal with on a daily basis. People making such comparisons either have no idea what's going on in much of the world, or they're being deliberately misleading to further their agenda.

[Edited 2010-12-09 11:38:43]

[Edited 2010-12-09 12:22:45]
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:52 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 36):

Aren't you a member of that site???

Site? What site? These are "dangerous elite hackers from a secret underground community". I don't have access to that.   

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 36):
Then what was the point?

To make a point:

Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 1):
They're attacking the websites because the companies (and paypal) have pulled their services from Wikileaks.

Kind of like a "you mess with them, you mess with us" type deal.

But above all, they did for teh lulz 
 
ALTF4
Posts: 1157
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:01 pm

RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:14 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 2):
The day after Assange get's arrested, computer hackers take over Visa and Mastercard websites, and post messages on said websites in support of wikileaks and Assange and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with Assange?

They did not deface either site - neither was compromised in any way. They didn't 'take over' the site. They didn't compromise databases with names, addresses and social security numbers. It was simply a DDoS - distributed denial of service - which, you might be surprised, happens thousands and thousands of times a day. Thanks to copious amounts of internet bandwidth available, it usually is not noticed (which means those attacks fail), as the bandwidth at the datacenter 'balances' out. Now, the DDoS made the news, but I doubt a whole hell of a lot of people even noticed - especially seeing as both companies use Akamai or similar providers who have more capacity for issues like this than you might realize.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 8):
What happens when these hackers decide to get off their computers and do something more sinister?

     

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 30):
And I'll have you know that these "barbarious cyber terrorists" are little more than a bunch of horny pre-pubescent teenagers with nothing better to do than pull pranks on society

Finally somebody gets it.

Guys, these 'hackers' are nothing more than script kiddies who got bored of playing WoW or Runescape in almost all cases. They just play 'follow the leader' so they can be part of 'epic' actions. Even the more qualified 'hackers' are still nothing more than script-kiddies, using pre-built packages to spray and pray.

The real 'hackers' (no, don't think of hacking into the power grid to blow up a transformer or convert every cell phone into a sonar device or control traffic lights) aren't even noticeable. They spend weeks upon weeks researching, followed by one simple attack that nobody even sees. They only need one shot, because they know that attack will work. They quietly cover their tracks, poke a hole somewhere so they can come back, and nobody really even knows.


On topic, it seems to be the trend that any unpopular organization gets the DDoS treatment at one point or another. Once the ISPs get fed up with it, expect one or two token cases that will not do much in the grand scheme of things.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 40):
they did for teh lulz

not that I carry much weight around here, but comments like that are the reason you're the only person on my RU List.

[Edited 2010-12-09 12:16:47]
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
 
hka098
Posts: 532
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:50 pm

RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:17 pm

Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 38):
This is kind of the point, though. It goes both ways. We can access anything anyone else can in the entire world. Both foreigners and Americans are freaking out here acting like our internet is censored, even as we criticize our government on an internet forum with absolutely no fear of "retribution." Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

So the government is concerned with a website that has basically become a platform for the spreading of secret/sensitive U.S. Government documents. Shouldn't they be? It's very important to remember that we, the citizens, are not being limited or treated differently in any way as a result of the wikileaks controversy/systematic targeting of our government, which is a lot more than we can say for billions of people in other countries. The constant comparisons that are floating around this message board of the U.S. government and its supposed "control" of the internet to that of say, China, is insulting not only to the U.S. public servants that continue to uphold our freedoms, but also to the CCP, who employs millions of cyber-warriors, hackers, etc. in order to actually control the internet, which they're proving to the rest of us might actually be possible. Most of all, though, it's insulting to the people that are actually mired under those regimes, and what they have to deal with on a daily basis. People making such comparisons either have no idea what's going on in much of the world, or they're being deliberately misleading to further their agenda.

I think that many of the things the U.S. Govt. considers secret don't need to be so. As far as retribution is concerned, U.S. citizens may be in the clear now, but I think that will change. I also think the U.S. is going to try and introduce major legislation governing what can be posted online and how it can be controlled. In that extent Wikileaks may be spoiling their own party and everyone else. I would give the military the trophy for defending our freedoms, that may be a stretch depending how you look at it. The IRS, Congress, The House, they're all there for the money. Perhaps freshmen politicians started out with the right intentions, but when they get plugged into the Washington machine, that is all gone.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:26 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 33):
So I guess because no harm was done, then it's absolutely positively ok to participate in this behavior, right? Let's see, on mischief night in high school, my friends and I would go around and let the air of people's tire and egg their car, but since nobody was harmed, I guess it would be ok with you as well right?

OK, so you went from calling the DDoS attackers "cyber terrorists" to comparing them to mischievous high school students. I think that's a good start.   

By the way, who knows for certain that these attacks were carried out as a gesture of support for Julian Assange? As far as I can tell, that's still essentially an allegation.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 40):
But above all, they did for teh lulz

   It'll blow over as soon as the attention span of the teenagers behind it is exhausted. Which will be, by all accounts, ten seconds in the past.   
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
etherealsky
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:13 pm

RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:18 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 33):
They only read whatever their media puts then they form their own opinions.

Wait, were you referring to the international community or to the average American with that statement..? Because I could swear that it would apply to Americans on a larger scale than any other culture....  
"And that's why you always leave a note..."
 
mham001
Posts: 4347
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 42):
OK, so you went from calling the DDoS attackers "cyber terrorists" to comparing them to mischievous high school students. I think that's a good start.

Does not negate the fact that it is illegal in many countries.

Quoting etherealsky (Reply 43):
Wait, were you referring to the international community or to the average American with that statement..? Because I could swear that it would apply to Americans on a larger scale than any other culture....

Yea, right. You need to get around some more. A little more traveling might cure that ignorance about ignorance.
 
deltaownsall
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 3:25 pm

RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:36 pm

Quoting etherealsky (Reply 43):
Wait, were you referring to the international community or to the average American with that statement..? Because I could swear that it would apply to Americans on a larger scale than any other culture....

I'd like to know who started this whole facade...goodness they've been successful, especially with Americans, ironically (wait, now I'm getting confused). If there's one thing I've learned from traveling and getting to know people from different cultures, it's that bias and prejudice damn sure were not invented by Americans...they're human qualities. It's like that Twilight Zone episode, "People Are Alike All Over." People say that we need to end the concept of American exceptionalism...well, nothing is more exceptional than statements indicating that the culture is more ignorant than the rest of the world!
 
TheCommodore
Posts: 3458
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:14 am

RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:37 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 44):
Yea, right. You need to get around some more. A little more traveling might cure that ignorance about ignorance.

So do you my friend.

You have wrongly quoted many times, not just in this thread but other threads, that Australia has its ISP, controlled and censored by the Government..

WRONG.
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:51 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 31):
"Traitor" fits much better.

Traitor for whom? Last thing I´ve heard is that Mr. Asange is an Australian citizen, not an American one. As an Australian he is not expected to have any special allegiance to the USA.
His servers are outside US jurisdiction as well.
And I´m sure that many non-American government members will be happy to know how Washington REALLY thinks about them. Big egg on the face of the US State Department, though quite amusing for us foreigners.


Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
hka098
Posts: 532
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:50 pm

RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:11 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 44):
Does not negate the fact that it is illegal in many countries.

That would hold true for the NSA spooks and the like DDoS'ing the Wikileaks web-site right now. No one has said anything about that. The U.S. isn't squeaky clean in that regard either.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 47):
Big egg on the face of the US State Department, though quite amusing for us foreigners.

   Exactly! Thank you
 
deltaownsall
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 3:25 pm

RE: Assange Supporters Attack Visa/Mastercard Websites

Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:11 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 47):
Last thing I´ve heard is that Mr. Asange is an Australian citizen, not an American one.

Well, he hasn't made Kevin Rudd any more friends now, has he? Regardless of your opinion of the man, he is, after all, a currently serving Australian official.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 47):
And I´m sure that many non-American government members will be happy to know how Washington REALLY thinks about them. Big egg on the face of the US State Department, though quite amusing for us foreigners.

Sounds like a bit of Schadenfreude to me, eh?  

America wasn't the only country embarrassed by these unnecessary shenanigans, though. That being said, I doubt there's too much surprise on the parts of the governments involved at any of the diplomats' opinions/assertions. And do we really think that diplomats/the equivalent of state departments all around the world don't harbor similarly candid assessments about their foreign counterparts?

The cables have been enormously fascinating and amusing to me, as well. But I try to remember that, despite my own selfish enjoyment, the key effect of this ordeal will be to set back diplomatic relations between our nations, and this isn't a positive.

[Edited 2010-12-09 15:15:06]

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