BMIFlyer
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Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:06 pm

Hi,

Well I had an interesting day today. I returned home from an outing at 5pm, plugged my iPhone 3GS into the PC to charge it up and nothing happened. I then opted to plug it into the electrical wall charger, and still nothing. I instantly thought, WTF?

So, I did a few resets on the phone, as per the handbook - first switching it off and back on, then after still getting nowhere I performed a reboot. Still I was left with a phone that wouldn't charge up - or even sync with the pc for that matter.

My only option now was to call my service provider and get some advice on the fault. All they could suggest aside from the usual "reset tricks" was to go to the nearest Apple shop and ask them for advice.

So, my service provider made me an appointment this evening (for 8pm) and off I went to the local Apple shop, to visit the guys at the "Genius Bar" (Tech Desk). On arrival I was served in under 10 minutes (it was packed in the store with shoppers), and my phone was taken away for an inspection.

The helpful bloke behind the counter plugged it into his laptop and verified that it wouldn't sync or charge then told me the only thing he could do was to swap it for a brand new handset of the same model, which I was kinda shocked about at first but he explained that as the phone was only 6 months into a 12 month warranty, he could simply swap it over for me.

Absolutely brilliant I thought. So sure enough, in less than 30 minutes after walking into the store, I walked out with a brand new handset. All I can say about this is, "wow" really.

Thank you 'Apple' - you made my day!



Merry Christmas!  
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:21 pm

Glad to hear this worked out. They are pretty good with replacing phones if they can reproduce the problem.

I just wish I didn't have to go to the Apple Store that often. I'm literally on my 3rd iPhone 4 handset since June.
It's pathetic.

Aeroflot777
 
cabso1
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:38 pm

The Genius at the Genius Bar replaced my macbook's battery for the 4th time in 4.5 years, and I've never even bought Applecare.
 
Airstud
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:53 pm

Glad you had a positive experience with Apple - now please repay the favor by switching from PC to Mac!! 

I will be in the market for a new phone in the next few months and am definitely considering yon iPhone. A key problem is that I work in a data center, three floors below street level, and there is a Verizon repeater in the room but no cellular service on any other network. As someone who is enjoying going a bit further with software development, I'm also drawn to the Android platform for that reason.

I've been a Macintosh fan since the days of System 6, and a Microsoft hater for that reason and a hundred others, so through the years I would stick with Apple's product offerings even if only for the sake of solidarity. But the game has changed these days; with Apple having attained a higher market cap than Microsoft, they don't need anyone's help. That in turn has helped me become more objective in viewing Apple's offerings.

But by no means do I have the iPhone ruled out!! 

Merry Christmas   
Pancakes are delicious.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:10 pm

I couldn't help but thinking of....



[Edited 2010-12-23 15:12:40]
 
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OA260
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:25 pm

Quoting BMIFlyer (Thread starter):
Thank you 'Apple' - you made my day!

Thats really good and also all of my dealings with the Apple Store in Belfast have been great.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 1):
I'm literally on my 3rd iPhone 4 handset since June.

I still have mine which I got back in June , not even one problem with it .   
 
cerretaman
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:38 am

Hmm..

u mad cause i'm stylin' on you?
 
aloges
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:43 am

Woohoo, Mac vs. PC!   
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Ken777
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:35 am

Part of what you pay for with Apple is service. I used to get that level of service with Dell, but then they went super cheap.

Been with Apple ever since I had a week of misery with Dull Customer Support who never fixed my problem.
 
nqyguy
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:41 am

I was expecting you to say "they swapped it over for an iPhone 4.", but seems you got a good deal anyway.  
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:28 pm

Quoting NQYGuy (Reply 9):
I was expecting you to say "they swapped it over for an iPhone 4.", but seems you got a good deal anyway.

I wish 
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
hka098
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:41 pm

I can only echo the positive sentiments toward my customer experience at the Apple Stores. This summer the piece of the logic board that controlled fan speed and regulation in my iMac failed. As a result, the fans spun up to their maximum and quickly failed, frying the inside electronics. I brought the unit in and two geniuses looked at it and reached the same conclusion. Apple Care covered the replacement. I went away, leaving the iMac with the store. A week later, I called asking how my machine was progressing only to find it was not finished. A manger had honestly told me that the machine's repairs had fallen through the cracks. This was the week that the iPhone 4 had launched. I understood but firmly told the manager that I had needed my Mac. My laptop that I was using was fine but very old (iBook G4). She offered to replace my iMac with a new model. The iMac I had brought in was a 24" model, they no longer produced that model, at that time. The manager hooked me up with a new 27" iMac. I was dumb-founded.

I had a concern over the Mac's hard drive. When I bring any machine in to service, I backup and wipe the disk as it contains proprietary company data. I was not able to do so in this case. She had the drive removed for me and gave it to me along with the new iMac. This is only one of a few stories I have like this from Apple. That is what keeps me coming back. Not to mention the Macs just work...
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:50 pm

I had a good experience with Apple customer service as well. I bought a MacBook Pro back in September 2007, and in october 2008, the graphics card stopped working. I talked to Humac - a certified Mac dealer here in Denmark, and they changed the whole motherboard with graphics card in my computer for free, even though the 1 year warranty had run out, because they admitted that there was a general problem with the Nvidia graphics card installed in my computer.
 
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czbbflier
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:32 am

Our experience with Apple has been unbelievable. A few months ago, we had a DVD stuck in the player. We made an appointment online to visit the genius bar that afternoon.

We dropped the computer off, expecting that it was going to cost me a pretty penny, my extended AppleCare was expired, after all. A quick look at our file, and the tech told us we still had 36 days left on the Applecare so it was going to be free.

When we learned that there was some time left, I mentioned that there was also a problem with the USB- it kept resetting from time to time, booting all my peripherals off. Also, when I used Excel, the screen would have the gridlines burned into the screen for a long time after.

"Leave it with us for a couple of days," we were told. Two days later, we had a new superdrive, a new motherboard (the USB module is not separable) AND a new LCD screen. $1,300 in repairs with just a few days left on AppleCare....

It gets better.

A few days later, we were back at the Genius Bar- the computer was having kernel panics and things were just not right. The logs showed that there were issues. So what did they do, with 1 day left on AppleCare?

They replaced my 24" iMac with a brand spanking new 27" iMac!

A week later, we were back yet again- this time the hard drive was defective. So we got ANOTHER BRAND NEW IMAC!!!!! No hardball conversations. It was just the 'right thing to do'!

Quoting NQYGuy (Reply 9):
I was expecting you to say "they swapped it over for an iPhone 4.", but seems you got a good deal anyway.

Funny you should mention this....

And understand too, that in Canada, iPhones sold at the Apple Store are the only ones that come unlocked.

My partner's iPhone 3GS battery overheated while he was talking on it and it mildly burned his face. We took it to the Apple Store. There, we were told that they would replace it with another 3GS. My partner pointed out that if this had happened in the United States, he'd probably be looking for much more than just a replacement phone.

So, while the store was selling out of iPhone 4s every day with people lining up at 4:00 in the morning to buy one for hundreds of dollars, my partner received, in part as compensation for burning his face, a brand spanking new iPhone 4!

Apple is going to have to screw up really badly several times before I even think of considering using anybody else for my computing needs.
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:05 am

In Mexico Apple also sells Unlocked Iphones, WOOOHOOOO!!!!

As a service center owner here, I can tell you that the level of service, parts avaliability and support is unmatched by any other company period.
We ask for parts, or support, or problems on behalf of the customer and Apple always goes for helping the customer, a lot of our clients are quite happy with their products to begin with, and when they fail the are surprised by the service.

After experiencing Dell support and also Microsoft Support, there is no comparison, the loyalty of Apple customers is legendary for this kind of experiences. Hence a lot people think we are just "fanboys".
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:00 am

Quoting czbbflier (Reply 13):

Apple is going to have to screw up really badly several times before I even think of considering using anybody else for my computing needs.

OK. So I'm a little torn on all of this. I have 3 Mac computers in my household and 2 iPhones - but by no means an I drinking Apple kool-aid. I work with PCs at work and don't really have any problems. My experiences with Apple have been fairly good so I can't complain. But I do find some things a bit worrisome:

Quoting czbbflier (Reply 13):
A few days later, we were back at the Genius Bar

I'm glad that you had an awesome experience the first time around at the Genius Bar. But your new computer had problems too? That kind of sucks.

Quoting czbbflier (Reply 13):
A week later, we were back yet again

Great, sucks even more.

Quoting czbbflier (Reply 13):

My partner's iPhone 3GS battery overheated while he was talking on it and it mildly burned his face

Um... something like that shouldn't be happening in the first place.


It's super comforting to hear that Apple is so easy going when it comes to replacing machines with new ones if you have complaints. And they have definitely done so in the past with me as well - as mentioned I've gone through a few iPhone 4s myself. What I don't find acceptable is the fact that people seem to perpetually need to return to the Genius Bar with problem after problem.

That's all.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:49 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 15):
It's super comforting to hear that Apple is so easy going when it comes to replacing machines with new ones if you have complaints. And they have definitely done so in the past with me as well - as mentioned I've gone through a few iPhone 4s myself. What I don't find acceptable is the fact that people seem to perpetually need to return to the Genius Bar with problem after problem.

It's statistically inevitable that multiple failures will happen occasionally. And it's psychologically understandable that the relatively few people who've had such multiple failures but were still satisfied by the manufacturer's service stand out.

I personally had just one relatively mild defect in over 15 years of using several Macs (depending on which ones I'd count, 4 or 5 machines in total) which was also resolved swiftly and painlessly. Not as spectacular from the customer service point of view, but I'm still satisfied.
 
racko
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:31 pm

Considering their prices they should've at least given you an additional full body massage.

Friend of mine recently purchased an iMac and it took me ages to convince her that the only reason why Apple charges over 1000€ for 16GB of RAM with a value of ~200€ is that they can.
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:08 pm

I too was impressed with their customer service when my iPod Touch tanked after the update from iOS4 to 4.1. I was in and out within 20 minutes and not once was I asked to provide proof of purchase or anything of the sort. I wasn't even charged.

I continue, though, to remain unimpressed with their product pricing.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:30 pm

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 18):
I too was impressed with their customer service when my iPod Touch tanked after the update from iOS4 to 4.1. I was in and out within 20 minutes and not once was I asked to provide proof of purchase or anything of the sort. I wasn't even charged.

I continue, though, to remain unimpressed with their product pricing.

Comprehensive development, good product quality and customer service all cost money.
Two sides of the same coin.

Cheap manufacturers simply couldn't provide the same quality level, even if they wanted to.
 
racko
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:50 pm

No. Their customers are willing to pay for it, that's why they're so expensive. You get the same kind of service with a 4GB RAM iMac as you get with a 16GB RAM iMac. Apple buys their RAM modules from the same manufacturers as anybody else.
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:52 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 19):
Comprehensive development, good product quality and customer service all cost money.

I'm aware of that. However, I have had very few issues (all software) with my Dell laptop which was considerably less expensive than a comparable Mac.

Perhaps if my Dell had been (or becomes) an absolute turd, the price premium for a Mac would seem justifiable to me. Currently, it is not.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:20 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 20):
No.

Excellent customer service doesn't cost any money? Sorry, but you'll have a hard time convincing anybody of that.

Quoting racko (Reply 20):
Their customers are willing to pay for it, that's why they're so expensive.

And now for homework I'll leave it to you to work out why the customers might be willing to pay these prices...

Hint: "They're all just stupid!" as you implied above is actually not a plausible answer. Real-world experiences and behaviours just don't support that hypothesis.

Quoting racko (Reply 20):
You get the same kind of service with a 4GB RAM iMac as you get with a 16GB RAM iMac.

Your point being?

Quoting racko (Reply 20):
Apple buys their RAM modules from the same manufacturers as anybody else.

Yeah. And...?

Apple usually has some extra markup on RAM expansion and they don't adapt their pricing to changing market conditions very often. In the case of the iMac 16GB expansion it's still the initial price from the introduction of the current product line when 4GB DIMMs were still seriously expensive. When I upgraded mine with (reputable) third-party RAM some time later, it still cost me a bit above €500; And market prices for these large DIMMs have been falling further since then, as expected.

Apple hasn't matched the price reduction yet, so the difference goes to net profits but also to customer service and, of course, added build-to-order costs and warranty provisioning.

I know that many people live under the delusion that manufacturers need to be starved out of margin all around and that that was somehow in the interest of every customer, but in real life all manufacturers have different margins on various main products and accessories.

In many cases the customer can evade at least some of the markup, but it also may not be worth the hassle in every case. Some people simply don't care much about a higher price when it simplifies things for them. Which is a valid road to take.

Whether (and if so: how) to spend some of the total revenue on customer satisfaction is one of the many things that separates wildly successful manufacturers from languishing or declining ones.
 
Gingersnap
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:28 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 19):
Cheap manufacturers simply couldn't provide the same quality level, even if they wanted to.

Agreed. My iPhone has only gone on the brink once, and was replaced immediately (albeit with a £150 charge) as it was 2 weeks past the 12 month stage.
Although I know someone who is involved in some parts manufacturing in England for the iPhone. His words not mine, were "most of the components are cheap and aren't worth the price you pay".

But aside from that I've never had a problem, so I guess for me the 'cheap tat' works  

But apart from that, I prefer my PC desktop...but am considering a Macbook in the future.
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Klaus
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:33 pm

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 21):
I'm aware of that. However, I have had very few issues (all software) with my Dell laptop which was considerably less expensive than a comparable Mac.

Except if you've got a high-grade business model from Dell, there is no comparable Mac. Apple doesn't compete with Dell's mainstream lines at all.

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 21):
Perhaps if my Dell had been (or becomes) an absolute turd, the price premium for a Mac would seem justifiable to me. Currently, it is not.

There are a few more graduations than just "absolute turd" and "excellent", and in general you get what you pay for.

You can be fully satisfied on pretty much any level – I'm not disputing that.
Differences still exist, however.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:44 pm

Quoting gingersnap (Reply 23):
Although I know someone who is involved in some parts manufacturing in England for the iPhone. His words not mine, were "most of the components are cheap and aren't worth the price you pay".

That it contains resistors and other individually "cheap" parts is obvious. They just have no impact whatsoever on the price / value relation unless they are defective or of sub-par quality. I know a bit about manufacturing of electronics, and I'm not aware of Apple cutting corners in any significant ways.

Quite the contrary – components like the casing made from machined stainless steel and high-grade glass or the retina display are as high-end as it gets.

Was he talking about these?

Developing, manufacturing and supporting a product on the performance and quality level of the iPhone is very far removed from "cheap" (not least due to extensive licensing costs).

I'd like to hear which components your acquaintance was talking about.
 
racko
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:20 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 22):
Hint: "They're all just stupid!" as you implied above is actually not a plausible answer. Real-world experiences and behaviours just don't support that hypothesis.

If you pay 1080€ for the same product that can be purchased for 200€ you are stupid. There's no other word for it. You can have it installed by someone with a PhD in computer science (even though a trained monkey will do) and still pay 800+ € less.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 22):
Apple usually has some extra markup on RAM expansion and they don't adapt their pricing to changing market conditions very often. In the case of the iMac 16GB expansion it's still the initial price from the introduction of the current product line when 4GB DIMMs were still seriously expensive. When I upgraded mine with (reputable) third-party RAM some time later, it still cost me a bit above €500; And market prices for these large DIMMs have been falling further since then, as expected.

The current line of iMacs was introduced on 27th July 2010. I'm pretty sure RAM prices haven't fallen by 75% since then. Besides, "We're lazy" isn't an excuse for ripping off your customers.

I don't have a problem with companies making money, but Apple brags about the simplicity of their products and therefore has quite a lot of customers who are not computer-savvy and therefore don't realize how badly they're being ripped off. That's what I dislike. I'd have a problem with a car company charging 160€ for 40€ windscreen wipers, too. It would

It would do next to nothing to Apple's profits, as the vast majority of people who need large amounts of RAM are probably professionals who know a thing or two about computers and don't fall into this trap, yet Apple doesn't do anything about it. They'd rather rip off those few who are stupid enough than do the decent thing.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:29 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 26):

If you pay 1080€ for the same product that can be purchased for 200€ you are stupid. There's no other word for it. You can have it installed by someone with a PhD in computer science (even though a trained monkey will do) and still pay 800+ € less.

Case in point:

http://thenextweb.com/apple/files/2010/09/mac01.jpg
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:40 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 24):
Except if you've got a high-grade business model from Dell, there is no comparable Mac.

I don't, but thanks for your assessment. There still exists a price premium that I feel isn't currently justifiable. And there are Macs that would be able to take the place of my current Dell quite easily if price weren't an issue.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
Gingersnap
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:17 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 25):
I'd like to hear which components your acquaintance was talking about.

I honestly couldn't tell you. I guess he didn't want to jeopardise his position in case I opened my mouth to anyone within Apple.
The only problem I've known of personally, was my ex's touch screen become unresponsive. We took it down to the Apple store, and it was fixed within a few minutes. Turned out a wire/component had become loose (probably through the phone being dropped).
Apart from that we've never had a problem with Apple products. My first gen iPod still works as well as the day it was bought (although I don't use it much for obvious reasons).
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hka098
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:31 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 26):

There is more to a Mac than hardware. I also disagree with the notion that Mac users are not computer savvy. Scientists, educators, and even IT professionals use the Mac as their primary computing platform. Computer skills are not-platform specific. The ability to fix Windows does not echo any specific technical talent. Just the one doing the fixing has been seasoned to work in a computing environment that often breaks and is subject to comprise. In over ten years as an IT professional I have never had to remove a virus from a Mac, or a Linux machine for that matter. To use Windows properly and safely one almost needs to be an IT professional. Today's computer users are not that, and nor should they have to be. Folks just want to use their computer to do whatever they need to do, and not fix it.

It is very true that a comparable non-Mac can be bought for a lower price, but like anything else you get what you pay for. Many folks choose to drop significantly more on a car than they need to. That is because they want a better product, this is where the Mac comes in for the computer market.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:39 pm

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 28):
I don't, but thanks for your assessment. There still exists a price premium that I feel isn't currently justifiable. And there are Macs that would be able to take the place of my current Dell quite easily if price weren't an issue.

It's always a matter of choice whether you're willing to pay more to get more even after your primary needs have already been met. And it's perfectly legitimate to decide against it.

Quoting gingersnap (Reply 29):
I honestly couldn't tell you. I guess he didn't want to jeopardise his position in case I opened my mouth to anyone within Apple.

From what I know about this kind of device, I doubt that he would have claimed that Apple was cutting corners on component quality. They're pretty much at the top of the line on that.

But many people have trouble reconciling basic manufacturing costs with sticker prices in the store. That a product like the iPhone contains many thousand man-years of development effort which have to be covered by the sales price as well often gets ignored. And that includes not just the development of the device itself, but notably its various firmware components, licensed technologies and development of the various components.

Quoting hka098 (Reply 30):
There is more to a Mac than hardware. I also disagree with the notion that Mac users are not computer savvy. Scientists, educators, and even IT professionals use the Mac as their primary computing platform.

Indeed. I have pretty extensive capabilities in the field. I just want to focus them on my actual work, not on avoidable system maintenance. Having a full-scale Unix system at my fingertips and at the same time a fully supported commercial desktop system is what makes the Mac attractive for me. That it's only sold with high-grade hardware is a plus for me, not a limitation. But that's certainly a matter of perspective – and of preference.
 
hka098
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:24 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 31):
Indeed. I have pretty extensive capabilities in the field. I just want to focus them on my actual work, not on avoidable system maintenance. Having a full-scale Unix system at my fingertips and at the same time a fully supported commercial desktop system is what makes the Mac attractive for me. That it's only sold with high-grade hardware is a plus for me, not a limitation. But that's certainly a matter of perspective – and of preference.

I think that is something many critics of the Mac fail to recognize. OS X, the reason I moved to the Mac, is designed to work specifically with that hardware. This builds-in a high degree of stability in that system with matched hardware and software. The hardware spec has become more general, since Apple switched to Intel chips in 2005. Creating a Hackintosh is much easier now than it was in the PPC days. This type of approach is very similar to how Sun Microsystems built Solaris to work only with their products. Microsoft has a much tougher job in designing software that can run on almost anything x86 or x64 capable. There is a significant trade-off in reliability for that type of capability. The fastest performing machines I have ever worked with did not have the top-end hardware. Linux kernels that I have compiled specifically for a certain CPU, ran very quickly over their high-performance, and generic stablemates.
 
racko
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:27 pm

Quoting hka098 (Reply 30):

And how does any of that justify charging 400% the market value for a RAM upgrade? As I said, a professional won't fall into the trap, the trap is specifically set up for those without any IT knowledge who don't know that charging 1080€ for 4x4GB of RAM is insane.

Quoting hka098 (Reply 30):
To use Windows properly and safely one almost needs to be an IT professional.

Install Windows, install an anti-virus program, done. Which of the 2 steps requires an profesionnal?

Quoting hka098 (Reply 30):
In over ten years as an IT professional I have never had to remove a virus from a Mac, or a Linux machine for that matter.

...because >90% of all computers run Windows and less than 5% run Mac OS or Linux. They're simply not an attractive target. Nowadays, successful malware is written for financial gain. If you want to run a botnet, a virus that infects 0.1% of Windows PCs is still more attractive than one that infects 1% of all MacOS PCs. Therefore, if you're in the market to sell a 0day-exploit, you'll make a lot more money with a Windows exploit than with a MacOS exploit. This leads to more people looking for Windows exploits etc. In hacking contests MacOS has fallen just like any other OS - you can't write something as complicated as an Operating System without any errors.
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:42 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 31):
It's always a matter of choice whether you're willing to pay more to get more

Of course, and I have paid more to get more with other products/services in the past. However, I don't find paying more for a Mac is justifiable as I'm not really gettting more. Sure Apple has better customer service but in the years I've owned computers, I've never really needed the assistance of customer service that much.

If my computer up and vanished today and I went out an bought a Mac tomorrow, I'd pay more for not much more. Certainly not enough to justify the price premium.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
hka098
Posts: 532
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:50 pm

RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:44 am

Quoting racko (Reply 33):
Install Windows, install an anti-virus program, done. Which of the 2 steps requires an profesionnal?

There is more than two steps. C'mon?

Quoting racko (Reply 33):
And how does any of that justify charging 400% the market value for a RAM upgrade? As I said, a professional won't fall into the trap, the trap is specifically set up for those without any IT knowledge who don't know that charging 1080€ for 4x4GB of RAM is insane.

I never claimed there was any justification. Apple customers don't have to buy the RAM upgrades through Apple. A RAM upgrade through Dell or HP isn't exactly cheap either.

Quoting racko (Reply 33):
...because >90% of all computers run Windows and less than 5% run Mac OS or Linux. They're simply not an attractive target. Nowadays, successful malware is written for financial gain. If you want to run a botnet, a virus that infects 0.1% of Windows PCs is still more attractive than one that infects 1% of all MacOS PCs. Therefore, if you're in the market to sell a 0day-exploit, you'll make a lot more money with a Windows exploit than with a MacOS exploit. This leads to more people looking for Windows exploits etc. In hacking contests MacOS has fallen just like any other OS - you can't write something as complicated as an Operating System without any errors.

You're preaching to the choir here and you have missed the point. Not having to deal with a virus on a platform is a compelling reason enough to sway users into buying. Stability is another selling point. Macs aren't flawless, but it has been years since I have seen a kernel panic, or had a freeze on my Mac. It is very interesting that the Linux/BSD folks have been able to build a platform that is much more stable and secure with a fraction of Redmond's resources. Do you really want to chock-up Microsoft's security reputation against other platforms? Really?
 
User avatar
TheRedBaron
Posts: 3081
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:17 am

RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:05 am

Another Macs Vs Windows thread ...Sigh.

Apple sells the majority of music online in this planet, so they are doing something right.
Apple has 70+ of the tablet market and has been on the scene for less than 10 months, so they are doing something right.
Apple has the highest customer satisfaction in ALL the industry. They are doing things right.
Apple has the fastest growing share of the PC market for like 3 years now, I dont think its because they rip off people, or maybe there are a lot of stupid people with tons of money who like to be ripped off !
They entered the Phone Market in 2007 and they had a business plan for 5 years that took 17 months to obliterate. Because they have a bad and expensive phone?
The Mp3 player market? Totally dominated by Apple.

Apple as a whole has a very high standard of customer satisfaction that I cannot disclose, but I am quite proud the we have 97% CS factor on Ipods, and 94% on Computers, and we will do better in 2011.
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
cabso1
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 6:23 am

RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:33 am

Spend $700 on a computer and see it break in a couple of years. Spend $1000 on a Mac and never see it break for 5 years and counting.

Overpriced? Not really. If you divide the price of a mac by the number of years someone can use it without having to facepalm every few minutes and divide the price of a PC by number of years someone can use it without having to facepalm every few minutes, a mac will be cheaper.

I'm not drinking the mac koolaid here, I'm a computer technician by profession. I've used Windows since I was 1996 old and I've been using a mac for about 5 years now. My headaches with a PC? Too many to count. My headaches with a mac? 4 (all related to bloated batteries which have been replaced FOC).

I'd rather over pay and get some decent customer service. I overpaid for a HP tablet once, more than a mac actually, and I've had to spend near USD1000 just to get its motherboard fixed on multiple occasions. An issue that HP knows exists yet they refuse to do naff all about it.
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:45 am

Quoting cabso1 (Reply 37):
Spend $700 on a computer and see it break in a couple of years. Spend $1000 on a Mac and never see it break for 5 years and counting.

Overpriced? Not really. If you divide the price of a mac by the number of years someone can use it without having to facepalm every few minutes and divide the price of a PC by number of years someone can use it without having to facepalm every few minutes, a mac will be cheaper.

As an IT professional, you should know damn well that if you don't maintain your OS, I don't give a damn if it's Windows, Fedora, Symbian, OSX, etc etc, things WILL break. Computers don't break magically for freaks sake. The hardware advantages issue is moot, since PCs and Macs are identical once you open the box, specially nowadays with Intel providing the hardware. So neither is better built than the other. Computers are like cars, you HAVE to maintain them one way or another, there's no such thing as a maintenance free car, or computer for that matter. People have this idiotic idea that computers should just run magically, years on end, without a single hiccup. And yes I have used plenty of Macs, and yes I have seen them fail too.

I'm typing this from a scratch built high performance gaming system, I don't have a single complaint on reliability. The few problems I've had have been due to my own fault, tinkering with overclocking settings. The only time I had a complete meltdown years ago, was when I willfully downloaded a questionable file from a questionable website, and got a nasty virus. That's the ONLY time I've had to reformat due to a meltdown, other times were mere OS upgrades or partitioning. I always keep my OS updated, do monthly malware scans, wipe junk off my drives, clean the air filters and heats sinks every few months, etc etc. I don't care if you all think that sounds like a lot of work, because I knew what I was getting into and more importantly I know how to take core of my computer and I am more than willing to do so. Anybody that spends hundreds if not thousands of dollars on a computer PC/MAC or whatever, neglects it completely and has no clue how to use it correctly has no one to blame but himself.

OSX is not superior in any extraordinary way to Windows. The only reason Macs give the ILLUSION of being "safer" and "more reliable" is because all the goddamned viruses, malware, trojans, and what have you not that are out there not meant to even be run by a Mac. There is no completely infallible OS out there. PERIOD. In fact, I'm absolutely certain that with the current craze for Apple products, things can only go south from here. Evil doers will start writing viruses and other nasty programs taking advantage of the increased market share their products are getting. Then, things will not look so pretty anymore, and it will finally work as a reality check for all the Steve Jobs worshipers. Mark my words.

Quoting cabso1 (Reply 37):

I'm not drinking the mac koolaid here, I'm a computer technician by profession.

Clearly, there's a lie somewhere in this sentence, I'm hoping it's before the coma  

[Edited 2010-12-25 22:46:29]
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:52 pm

Quoting cabso1 (Reply 37):
Spend $700 on a computer and see it break in a couple of years. Spend $1000 on a Mac and never see it break for 5 years and counting.

Do you realize that a) a Mac is a computer and b) posting this in a thread about a broken iPhone is a bit ridiculous?

Quoting hka098 (Reply 35):
It is very interesting that the Linux/BSD folks have been able to build a platform that is much more stable and secure with a fraction of Redmond's resources. Do you really want to chock-up Microsoft's security reputation against other platforms? Really?

Windows had a Security problem until Vista came along. Since then, Microsoft has actually gotten a lot of praise for their security efforts. Linux profits from being Open-Source and from not being in widespread use. The latter goes for MacOS as well. If you want to see Apple's security record, just look at iOS (which is a derivate of MacOS): It takes hours until a new version is jailbroken. Some versions were compromised by simply visiting a website. In the last "Pwn2Own" contest, Apple's Safari was the first that fell.

MacOS doesn't get hit by successful malware for the same reason 1988 Fiat Pandas don't get stolen: No demand.
 
hka098
Posts: 532
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:50 pm

RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:20 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 38):
OSX is not superior in any extraordinary way to Windows.

Disagree. Can't remember when I have had to load a driver for anything on a Mac. 10.4 - 10.6. Windows Vista was a disaster, to compare even XP to it is an insult. Ever use NT 4.0?

Quoting racko (Reply 39):
not being in widespread use

Ever use the Internet? More than three quarters of the web runs on some sort of *nix derivative. Internet DNS, routing, and backbones networks all run on non-Windows systems.

Quoting racko (Reply 39):

Windows had a Security problem until Vista came along.

Then other problems started...  

Jail-breaking IOS comes more out of carrier reasoning than Apple's. What cellular carrier in the U.S. permits unlocked phones? Even if the security record were hinged solely on iOS, it would be a short story. Microsoft's security record goes back decades. What happened if you forgot the Windows 95/98 password? You could just click "Cancel" to log in. Who thought that was good idea? NT 4.0 publically shared-out the root of ever drive on the system. Windows still does this, albeit they are hidden now. On web browsers, the massive success story of IE, especially version 6, is too humorous for Comedy Central.

We are getting way off-topic here. Bottom line is that Apple's customer service exceeds that of it's PC competitors. If not, why is Microsoft trying to build it's own stores in selected locations around the country? OEMs like Dell and HP specialize in the low-cost, mass-produced market. If one of their machines gets completely hosed it is not unreasonable to just replaced it. I have seen that done on many occasions. Not every PC user is a gamer, nor do they build their own rigs. My two year-old home-built runs great with Ubuntu Linux. By the time I was done with that build, I could of had a mid-range iMac. Dell and HP make a cheap PC, but by the time you spec it up a little bit, you are at the price of a Mac. Not everyone buys a Mac Pro. Not everyone needs a Mac Pro. Using that machine for the example was a poor choice. Try using what everyone else might buy, the iMac or MacBook.
 
cabso1
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 6:23 am

RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:43 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 38):
As an IT professional, you should know damn well that if you don't maintain your OS, I don't give a damn if it's Windows, Fedora, Symbian, OSX, etc etc, things WILL break. Computers don't break magically for freaks sake. The hardware advantages issue is moot, since PCs and Macs are identical once you open the box, specially nowadays with Intel providing the hardware. So neither is better built than the other. Computers are like cars, you HAVE to maintain them one way or another, there's no such thing as a maintenance free car, or computer for that matter. People have this idiotic idea that computers should just run magically, years on end, without a single hiccup. And yes I have used plenty of Macs, and yes I have seen them fail too.

I'm not even going into software here. That's a whole new issue. FYI, trash OSX to hell, download from dodgy websites and it might break. Go into one non-scrupulous website on a Windows machine and it will break. So lets just not go into Software because comparing Windows, OSX, Linux is like comparing apples and oranges.
And I'm not even talking about self built computers because you know what's going into them. We're talking about buying a mac versus buying a computer from another manufacturer. I have faced more problems with the other manufacturers versus the mac. That's my story. Period.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 38):
Anybody that spends hundreds if not thousands of dollars on a computer PC/MAC or whatever, neglects it completely and has no clue how to use it correctly has no one to blame but himself.
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 38):
There is no completely infallible OS out there. PERIOD. In fact, I'm absolutely certain that with the current craze for Apple products, things can only go south from here. Evil doers will start writing viruses and other nasty programs taking advantage of the increased market share their products are getting.

Agreed. Once again, my post was about hardware.

Quoting racko (Reply 39):
Do you realize that a) a Mac is a computer and b) posting this in a thread about a broken iPhone is a bit ridiculous?
Quoting racko (Reply 17):
Friend of mine recently purchased an iMac and it took me ages to convince her that the only reason why Apple charges over 1000€ for 16GB of RAM with a value of ~200€ is that they can.

You started it.
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:11 pm

Quoting cabso1 (Reply 41):
That's my story. Period.

Fair enough. However, I must say...

Quoting cabso1 (Reply 41):
Go into one non-scrupulous website on a Windows machine and it will break.

If that was true then these very forums would come to a grinding halt because nobody's computers would work, don't you think?   
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6789
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:37 am

Quoting racko (Reply 26):
therefore don't realize how badly they're being ripped off. That's what I dislike. I'd have a problem with a car company charging 160€ for 40€ windscreen wipers, too. It would

So based on that thought process, I suspect you'd never drive an Audi, Mercedes, Lamborghini or BMW and will only drive a Ford Focus? After all, its all the same thing, a car, right?

Racko, people value certain things. I had Dell and the BS that went with it. It cost more time and money on my part trying to fix the problem through Dell. NOt worth the savings.

So I decided to pay slightly more for my Mac. It runs better and I have not lost any time in dealing with it.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:45 am

Well, I drive a BMW, but if my dealer tried to charge me 160€ for a pair of windscreen wipers I'd give him the finger. He doesn't. I don't have a problem with someone charging me for something they actually do. I realize a BMW engine costs me a lot more than it costs BMW to make, but that's fine, because a lot of engineering went into it. Windscreen wipers on the other hand are the same whether you buy them from BMW or from the supermarket next door.

If they tried to charge 160€ it would be just in the hope of some customer actually not knowing better.
 
alwaysontherun
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:15 pm

RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:46 pm

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 43):
So I decided to pay slightly more for my Mac. It runs better and I have not lost any time in dealing with it.

Amen.....

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 38):
OSX is not superior in any extraordinary way to Windows.

That is subjective.....I changed to MAC 1,5 years ago--> loved every minute of it!
A couple of features that I miss whenever I´m on a Windows is:
The active corners, the great mouse pad, the nifty lay out of finder, the dashboard, the dock, the fast boot up / shut down, (so far) no crashes / reboots etc etc.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 38):
the ILLUSION of being "safer" and "more reliable" is because all the goddamned viruses, malware, trojans, and what have you not that are out there not meant to even be run by a Mac.

That by itself is a big argument.
This MAY change, but hey; I have enjoyed virus fee surfing the last 1,5 years and I will be enjoying it for some time to come!
Why not get a MAC today because this advantage MAY disappear in the years to come!!???
Not a good argument I´m afraid!

I enjoy the Apple stores--> I think they are neat and full of knowledgeable people that (so far) told me the truth about their products--> the pro´s and the con´s.

I enjoy your posts about GA / LSA etc Fly2HMO, but you seem to be very hostile against Apple--> based on an on-going thread about the I-pad in the cockpit.
I think it´s wasted negative energy--> it´s clear, you don´t buy MAC--> that´s fine!
I do--> each to their own.

MAC is more expensive but has some useful features which for some makes it worth the extra money.
Others stay with Windows.......I wouldn´t, but there you go--> live and live!
MAC is here to stay I´m afraid......
My signature is just a little joke, I´m not fanatically against Windows--> I´m just glad I finally swapped!

The best thing about Apple--> Windows now faces serious competition and I think we all benefit from that, at the end of the day!

###"I´m always on the Run"###
"Failure is not an option, it comes standard in any Windows product" - an anonymous MAC owner.
 
MrChips
Posts: 933
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:56 pm

RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:16 pm

Quoting BMIFlyer (Thread starter):
The helpful bloke behind the counter plugged it into his laptop and verified that it wouldn't sync or charge then told me the only thing he could do was to swap it for a brand new handset of the same model, which I was kinda shocked about at first but he explained that as the phone was only 6 months into a 12 month warranty, he could simply swap it over for me.

So what you're saying is that you are happy that you got your phone fixed with no hassle while it was still under warranty? Any company worth doing business with would have done that, for one, not just Apple. Also, I can't help feeling just a bit disappointed that our expectation for customer service has fallen so low that something like this, which should be a given, is cause for celebration.
Time...to un-pimp...ze auto!
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:43 pm

Quoting alwaysontherun (Reply 45):
but you seem to be very hostile against Apple-->

I don't have a problem against Apple itself. It's that smug sense of superiority and idiotic cult following from the fanboys that irritates me. I've used plenty of Apple products and yes, from a practicality standpoint, they're nice, they do the job ok, but that's it. I've never found any of their products particularly extraordinary. So for that reason, especially from a cost-benefit standpoint, they are just not worth bragging about, quite the contrary, IMO.

Quoting MrChips (Reply 46):
Also, I can't help feeling just a bit disappointed that our expectation for customer service has fallen so low that something like this, which should be a given, is cause for celebration.

        

[Edited 2010-12-27 14:44:03]
 
Klaus
Posts: 20687
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:43 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 47):
I don't have a problem against Apple itself. It's that smug sense of superiority and idiotic cult following from the fanboys that irritates me.

Nobody around here obsesses about that kind of thing as intensely as you do. You're fighting your own shadows here.
 
hka098
Posts: 532
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:50 pm

RE: Apple Customer Service - Excellent!

Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:57 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 47):
they are just not worth bragging about

Bragging may not be necessary, look at the numbers.

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