RussianJet
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Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:56 am

I haven't yet seen any response on here to the despicable bombing of the Coptic church in Alexandria at new year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12101748

21 souls were taken in this appalling act which was clearly intended to inflame tension between Muslims and Christians in Egypt.

Unfortunately it seems to have been successful, with an immediate backlash from our Orthodox brethren, but the most recent demonstrations seem understandable:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12101748

I hope this evil act is not the shape of things to come this new year, and that religious communities may be allowed to live together in peace regardless of their differences.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12106177

To the entire Orthodox family I wish that we can look forward to celebrating 7th January in peace and in the love of Christ, without the distractions of evildoers.

God bless you all.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
charlienorth
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:06 am

Sad to hear about...thoughts and prayers with these folks and their families.
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RussianJet
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:12 am

Quoting charlienorth (Reply 1):
Sad to hear about...thoughts and prayers with these folks and their families.

Thank you for your kind thoughts. It is indeed sad to hear about such an act at the best of times, but when one such as this is particularly designed to cause strife in a largely peacefully co-existing society of religious beliefs, it seems doubly despicable.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:19 am

I see the religion of "Peace" strikes again. Certainly sad to see a person can't attend a religious event without having worry about getting blown up.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
RussianJet
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:32 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 3):
I see the religion of "Peace" strikes again. Certainly sad to see a person can't attend a religious event without having worry about getting blown up.

That is not really fair. People have been blown up whilst going to work, going shopping, whatever. Perhaps you could clarify exactly what you mean or who your negativity was directed against and why?
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:34 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 4):

That is not really fair. People have been blown up whilst going to work, going shopping, whatever. Perhaps you could clarify exactly what you mean or who your negativity was directed against and why?

I was referring to radicals using the religion of Islam to promote violence.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
RussianJet
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:42 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 5):
I was referring to radicals using the religion of Islam to promote violence.

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification. God bless you for taking the time to think about those killed in this dastardly act.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
Quokka
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:14 am

A despicable act of terrorism that has rightly been condemned by leaders in the Middle East as well as the rest of the world.

The Arab world has condemned the bombing, with both Qatar and Kuwait conveying their condolences to the families of the victims and Egypt. Saudi Arabia said the "criminal act is neither acceptable by Islam nor by global ethics." Shaikh Abdullah Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, Foreign Minister of the UAE rejected "terrorism in all its forms and totally condemns targeting of places of worship."

In Egypt itself, the Muslim Brotherhood has condemned the attack as has Al Azhar, the highest religious authority among Muslims.

Source: http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/go...ds-condolences-to-mubarak-1.739243

Hosni Mubarak may choose to point to outsiders in the interest of "national unity", but unless his government addresses issues like unemployment, education and housing and heeds voices for greater recognition of democratic rights, then the risk of religious divisions widening (and becoming more violent) increases.

There are already fears for Egypt's future as Mubarak, after thirty years in power, is in his eighties and people are asking what is going to happen when he is no longer around.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:12 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 3):
I see the religion of "Peace" strikes again.

You're a Christian, yes? Clearly, you support Fred Phelps and his godhatesfags crowd. Your religion is hateful and evil.

Oh, I'm sorry, was that unfair? So's your statement about Islam. So knock it the hell off.

That said, moderate Muslims are standing by mostly silent while these acts occur. I think that most Muslims feel that they are powerless to stop these acts. After all, they wake up, brush their teeth, pray, eat breakfast, take the kids to school, go to work, pick up the kids, etc. Who has the time with all that to start a mass movement against the Islamists?

There will need to be some major public backlash against the Jihadists by moderate Muslims. These people are recruiting kids (it's almost always males 13-25) to do these acts. Where are their parents? Often, they've been duped into sending their kids to a Madrassa thinking that they're going to get a religious education only to learn that their kids have blown themselves up a few months later in a terrorist attack.

I haven't seen the mass outrage from moderate Muslims and we, the rest of the world, are looking to them to take a stand, to launch mass public education campaigns warning parents and kids about the dangers of these schools and their recruiters.

But they haven't. And I am very concerned that if Jihadists keep committing terrorists acts, the rest of the world will get desperate and turn to genocide.
-Doc Lightning-

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Quokka
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:05 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):


Seeing wide-scale and independent movements against Jihadis would be welcome but they would come up against a number of obstacles.

One of the problems in parts of the Middle East and Northern Africa is that organising outside of "approved" bodies is often hampered. The leaders of these countries see any independent movement as a threat and respond with repressive measures. Witness arrests of opposition party members prior to elections in Egypt, for example.

This means that the only place where people may get together to discuss things is in the mosque. Imams have used prayer meetings to condemn terrorism and violence and, particularly in the West, have urged peaceful coexistence with non-Muslims.

Generally we don't get to hear of this because "good news" doesn't sell papers. Discord and unrest is newsworthy. Twenty imams preaching peace will be drowned out by the one promoting hate. Images of imams pressing for calm are less exciting to TV crews than images of angry crowds in the street.

[Edited 2011-01-02 21:13:16]
 
Mudboy
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:02 am

Extremists of the Religion of Peace blow up a church and kill a bunch of Christians or Jews etc.
Response from the Religion of Peace.............. crickets chirping..............................................

A Christian extremist in the USA says he is going to burn the Qur'an which is his right according to the US Constitution, and 2/3rds of the USA including the POTUS speak out and ask the Pastor not to do it, even though it is his Constitutional right, because the USA will be portrayed as burning the Qur'an, not some Kook in Florida exercising freedom of expression, and he complies...............anyone understand what I am getting at?

That! is my problem with the Religion of Peace...........
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:23 am

I came to Egypt to spend the Holidays with my brother. This is a terrible crime and i am sure that this criminal act has some foreign hands behind it. And yes the silent moderate Muslims are showing up, a lot of demonstration by Christians and Muslims holding the Bible and the Koran are organised all over Egypt. The Azhar and all Muslim leadership came out strongly against this terrible act. Muslims all over Egypt are rushing to hospitals to donate blood for the wounded.

My deepest and sincere condolences to all the families of the innocent victims of this barbaric crime.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
Quokka
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:59 am

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 10):
Response from the Religion of Peace.............. crickets chirping..............................................


Religious scholars have issued many fatwas condemning terrorism and suicide bombings. Following a number of outrages, Muslim leaders around the world have expressed horror and disapproval in no uncertain words.

In the US the FIQH Council Of North America stated:

Quote:
In the light of the teachings of the Qur’an and Sunnah we clearly and strongly state:
1. All acts of terrorism targeting civilians are haram (forbidden) in Islam.
2. It is haram for a Muslim to cooperate with any individual or group that is involved in any act of terrorism or violence.
3. It is the civic and religious duty of Muslims to cooperate with law enforcement authorities to protect the lives of all civilians.

Source: http://www.cair.com/americanmuslims/...rrorism/fatwaagainstterrorism.aspx

In the UK Pakistani-born Sheikh Tahir ul-Qadri, a prominent theologian who launched a seminal fatwa in London told fellow Muslims:

Quote:
"Terrorism is terrorism, violence is violence and it has no place in Islamic teaching and no justification can be provided for it, or any kind of excuses of ifs and buts. The world needs an absolute, unconditional, unqualified and total condemnation of terrorism".


Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...gainst-all-terrorists-1915000.html

To those who ask why don't Muslims condemn terrorism, the question that might be asked is why aren't we listening?
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:38 am

Quoting Quokka (Reply 12):

To those who ask why don't Muslims condemn terrorism, the question that might be asked is why aren't we listening?

The question I ask is: "Why aren't they DOING something?" Condemning is one thing. Actually combating the problem on the ground is another.

These "Madrassas" are still recruiting kids to blow themselves up. It's not stopping.

I know that the guy down the street running the corner store is an honest and honorable man and wouldn't hurt a soul. But if these acts get common enough, someone in a position of power somewhere is going to fly off the handle and start rounding up all the Muslims (men, women, and children) and executing them into a mass grave. And that's going to get even uglier because the response will be... you guessed it... more terrorism.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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directorguy
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:04 pm

It's all so terrible.
Although I wasn't in Egypt at the time of the bombings, I heard from friends that everyone in Egypt is shocked. Last year's attack was a mild skirmish; this time they struck at the heart of the world's most important Coptic city. What's shocking is the stuff I'm hearing-that there have been riots, hooligans who stormed mosques etc (but I think these are isolated incidents). There was an issue over a church being built a month or two ago, which also sparked riots....so there's a lot of build-up. It's so sad-not the terrorist acts, but that there would be sectarian strife in Egypt. We read about thse things happening in Iraq, in India, in Pakistan-and now they're happening in Egypt too.
The media and government has rushed to condemn these acts, and hopefully tighter security means that something like this won't happen again.
The last year has been very interesting-first the attacks in southern Egypt, then the church issue and now this. Interesting times ahead.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:17 pm

Quoting directorguy (Reply 14):
The media and government has rushed to condemn these acts, and hopefully tighter security means that something like this won't happen again.

That's the problem - this is apparently the second time that a Coptic church has been bombed in the past year where the police protection mysteriously was pulled out just before the attack.

http://www.aina.org/news/20110101232613.htm
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Quokka
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:31 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
The question I ask is: "Why aren't they DOING something?"


But they are. Various bodies have organised campaigns against terror including sermons in mosques; petitions; providing information to security and police bodies. Remember that it was a Muslim woman who drew the attention of NYPD to the suspicious car in Times Square.

In the UK some Muslims bodies are working closely with the police in a sort of "neighbourhood watch meets police youth club" type arrangement. And I expect the guy in the corner store tells his children to be good and not break their mother's heart. These sorts of activities tend not to occur in the blare of the media.

In some countries, to combat Islamists (let alone Jihadists) the government has banned political discussion in the mosques and madrases. Morocco springs to mind, but this doesn't completely prevent those bent on criminal acts.

Back to Egypt, the security forces have made some arrests and are currently holding seven suspects. If those arrested were indeed involved they can look forward to a very unpleasant future.

See http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...arrest-17-coptic-attack-alexandria for more information.

(Spell check offered the following as suggestions to replace Jihadists: Headsets, Cultists and Keyboardists. Go figure.)
 
sw733
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:01 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):

You're a Christian, yes? Clearly, you support Fred Phelps and his godhatesfags crowd. Your religion is hateful and evil.

Oh, I'm sorry, was that unfair? So's your statement about Islam. So knock it the hell off.

  
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:28 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
You're a Christian, yes? Clearly, you support Fred Phelps and his godhatesfags crowd. Your religion is hateful and evil.

Oh, I'm sorry, was that unfair? So's your statement about Islam. So knock it the hell off.

I never said anything about being a christian, because i'm not biased. Each side has it's fair share of radicals. If it was a christian who blew up a mosque i'd be saying the same thing. What I said was more of a shot at radicals using religion to kill people rather than it being a shot at Islam. I coulda swore I pointed that out in my second post.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):

That said, moderate Muslims are standing by mostly silent while these acts occur. I think that most Muslims feel that they are powerless to stop these acts.

Which is what i'm most angry at. I feel that moderate Muslims don't want most of these acts to happen, but at the same time, a lot of them turn a blind eye to it.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:03 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 18):
Which is what i'm most angry at. I feel that moderate Muslims don't want most of these acts to happen, but at the same time, a lot of them turn a blind eye to it.


Ok what will you do if you were in my shoes?
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:17 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 19):


Ok what will you do if you were in my shoes?

Organize? Start loud, vocal groups like "Muslims Against Terror" etc?
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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777way
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:35 pm

In Pakistan today an incenced Elite Forces body guard of Punjab province Governer pumped 22 bullets into him as he came out of a restaurant, for sympathising with a Christian girl being accused of blasphemy and given death sentence by lower courts, the Governer a liberal thinking, westernised person had called Pakistan's blasphemy laws a black mark for the country, Pakistan govt. ha dplanne don modifying teh laws but have taken a back step again due to fanatic fear enforcsed public opposition.
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:45 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 19):
Ok what will you do if you were in my shoes?

I honestly don't know because I don't know your situation

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
Organize? Start loud, vocal groups like "Muslims Against Terror" etc?

And condemn him to being thrown in jail for blasphemy?
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
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OA260
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:46 pm

Sadly this is a growing problem in Egypt where its Christian minority are being targeted more and more. These are the headlines that you see , there are more that are not so widely reported. Just like the Christians in Iraq.
 
NW747400
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:25 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
You're a Christian, yes? Clearly, you support Fred Phelps and his godhatesfags crowd. Your religion is hateful and evil.

Oh, I'm sorry, was that unfair? So's your statement about Islam. So knock it the hell off.

No, it is fair because it's your constitutional right to be wrong. While I disagree with his rhetoric, how many people has he murdered? Oh right none, so it's not the same thing as murdering people as you implicitly suggest. It's just utter garbage honestly. I have no problem with Islamic extremists expressing their opinions; I have a problem with them killing people. Honestly Doc, your ridiculous attempts to equate even the most extreme Christians with Islamic extremists are absurd. The big difference you seem to routinely miss is that Islamic extremists systematically kill those that they disagree with. I ask you again, you may disagree with evangelical's stance on homosexuals, but do you see these Christians bombing gay bars? You know the answer.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:18 pm

I just saw this today...

Three Coptic Orthodox churches in the Netherlands feature on an al-Qaeda list of possible bombing targets, say church spokespeople.

The churches in Eindhoven, Utrecht and Amsterdam are named on the website Shumukh al-Islam, along with dozens of other Coptic churches in Egypt and across Europe.

http://www.rnw.nl/english/bulletin/d...optic-churches-threatened-al-qaeda

 Wow!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:33 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 22):
And condemn him to being thrown in jail for blasphemy?
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
Organize? Start loud, vocal groups like "Muslims Against Terror" etc?


It started happening in Egypt as we speak, actors(ess) sportsmen (women) writers, TV personalities, Islamic scholars among others are out in arms calling for the end of such cowerdely acts and the unity of Christians and Muslims against terrorism. There are even calls for the return of the old Egyptian flag ( all green with the crescent and three stars but to replace the stars with the crusifix)
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:37 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 26):
It started happening in Egypt as we speak, actors(ess) sportsmen (women) writers, TV personalities, Islamic scholars among others are out in arms calling for the end of such cowerdely acts and the unity of Christians and Muslims against terrorism. There are even calls for the return of the old Egyptian flag ( all green with the crescent and three stars but to replace the stars with the crusifix)

This is very good and how it should be and I fully support the actions only I am most afraid it will not stop the crazy fanatic killers.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
directorguy
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:10 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 15):
That's the problem - this is apparently the second time that a Coptic church has been bombed in the past year where the police protection mysteriously was pulled out just before the attack.

This isn't reflective of a tendancy to 'turn a blind eye' but rather suggestive of the corruption in the security forces-something manifested in a thousand and one other ways.
As for the outpour of sympathy for Copts in Egypt-where were these people a week, a month, a year, ten years ago? Now they realize that there's a problem? And then they begin suggesting a return to the crescent+three stars flag with a cross thrown in? On a large scale, relations are almost certainly going to deteriorate (although on a micro level, relations between Muslim and Christian neighbours, collegues etc. aren't going to deteriorate) as a lot of painful questions will now be asked about Egyptian national identity.
 
777way
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:40 pm

Al Qaeda is either an entity set up by agencies to forward their agenda of new world order or they are truly misguided, because Islam does not allow anything they are doing.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:35 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 29):
Al Qaeda is either an entity set up by agencies to forward their agenda of new world order or they are truly misguided, because Islam does not allow anything they are doing.

Then please explain why they call themselves Jihadists. The word itself says Holy War - specifically Islamic Holy War. If their motivation was something other than religious, how do you explain that religion is their foremost rationale for what they do?
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Quokka
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:44 am

In the West, the word is generally understood to mean "holy war," but Jihad is the Arabic for what can be variously translated as "struggle" or "effort," or "to strive," "to exert," "to fight," depending on the context.

In a number of places the Quran does call for "jihad" as a military struggle on behalf of Islam. But it is in the context of a collective defence rather than launching crusades. Typically the Quran defines jihad as an internal, individual, spiritual struggle toward self-improvement, moral cleansing and intellectual effort. Islamic scholars claim that Prophet Muhammad considered the armed-struggle version of holy war "the little jihad," but considered the spiritual, individual version of holy war--the war within oneself--as "the great jihad."

Muslim scholars have generally stressed the difference between "holy war" as a temporary, collective responsibility in time of war and the continuing responsibility of each Muslim to strive for adherence to the "path of righteousness" in much the same way as individual Christians might.

However, that doesn't stop those with their own agendas adopting the language of religion to further their own goals, whether it is some so-called Christians preaching hatred of homosexuals, some Rabbis saying renting houses to Israeli Arabs is treason and decent Jewish girls shouldn't go out with Arabs or some so-called Muslims carrying out terrorist acts. The various activities may differ but they all share two characteristics: the spread of hatred and cloaking that hatred in religion.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:28 am

Quoting Quokka (Reply 31):
In the West, the word is generally understood to mean "holy war," but Jihad is the Arabic for what can be variously translated as "struggle" or "effort," or "to strive," "to exert," "to fight," depending on the context.

The old excuse.

The Qur’an specifically exempts the disabled and elderly from Jihad (4:95), which would make no sense if the word is being used merely within the context of spiritual struggle. It is also unclear why Muhammad would use graphic language, such as smiting fingers and heads from the hands and necks of unbelievers if he were speaking merely of character development.

The most reliable of all Hadith collections is that of Bukhari. Jihad is mentioned over 200 times in reference to the words of Muhammad and each one carries a clear connotation to holy war, with only a handful of possible exceptions (dealing with a woman's supporting role during a time of holy war).

While I do not deny that most Muslims seem content to ignore this mandate, to blithely say that there is no rationale for violent Jihad in Muslim texts is simply ignorant.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:57 am

This is a rough translation of a poem spreading very fast in Egypt and on FB. The Arabic version is much stronger. It is to be taken as sarcastic poem

God Bless you my Hero You have killed many unarmed people today Women, Old and kids too. You got rid of a great danger, Those are people saying GOD is love And Love is a great Danger. Kill Peter Kill Mina, Their brother were killed in our Sinai war, Their kids have Danced in your wedding And in our funerals, Give us condolences. Kill Mary, Aunt Terese Those are people with no value And are always smiling in your face Saying Hello We are honored by your presence, And also Kill Uncle John He fights with you in all your fights Always trying To bring people closer And therefore Can never go to Heaven And also kill Samy Nagy Naguib His name is also very suspicious May be he is one of them Or has a Cross on his body I have another Idea, Hit Shobra Or Kit Kat or Opera Square Blow a bomb in each place Make a scene out of their neighbors Our GOD is Gracious And He will judge you one day You will be standing in front of him And will ask you what has this person done to you? Why have you killed him? Where? Who? And How? And Why? Then tell me my Hero On that day… What will you say????

The poem was written by Ahmad Nejm and translated by Wael Tawfik

[Edited 2011-01-07 03:00:09]
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
777way
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:06 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):
Then please explain why they call themselves Jihadists. The word itself says Holy War - specifically Islamic Holy War. If their motivation was something other than religious, how do you explain that religion is their foremost rationale for what they do?

If they are agents of other countries like I said, then obviously the "Jihadist" label they carry is to mislead the world and other muslims who dont have an understanding of the religion by maligning Islam, making it appear barbaric, intolerant and evil. What an ideal manner to create hatered for a religion and its followers to forward anti-christ agenda in the world specifically Muslim states and get support from their own people i.e the incresaingly secular Western world.

The other could be that they have no peoper understanding of Islam themselves and have created a deviant interpretation of it thats why.

You couldnt understand something so simple so imagine emotionally charged mainly illterates trying to interpret holy texts that even experts have to go through arduous study to understand clearly.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 32):
Quoting Quokka (Reply 31):
In the West, the word is generally understood to mean "holy war," but Jihad is the Arabic for what can be variously translated as "struggle" or "effort," or "to strive," "to exert," "to fight," depending on the context.

The old excuse.

There you have it, its already working the blinders are on, no need to explain to you, then why ask when you dont want to hear? obviously you have formed your own opinion without delving.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:22 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 34):
If they are agents of other countries like I said, then obviously the "Jihadist" label they carry is to mislead the world and other muslims who dont have an understanding of the religion by maligning Islam, making it appear barbaric, intolerant and evil.

However there is no evidence to support the claim that Al Qaeda and their kin are motivated less by their religious beliefs than as agents of some hidden state. You are either grasping at straws, and refusing to face the fact that Muslims can indeed be violent because of their faith, in which case you need to wake up, or you are involved in taqiyaa.
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hka098
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:38 pm

I think it is going to be a difficult question for the West, overall, to understand the rationale behind what drives Islamic terrorists. There is a large cultural difference between the East and the West. From my perspective, the majority of Muslims feature their religion as the most predominate thing in their lives. I have met with Muslims on many occasions that could not understand what it was like to be an Atheist and to "live without God". They just didn't get it. Western culture has predominately moved away from religion being the dominate force in their lives and philosophies. I know there are pockets of deeply religious folks all over the U.S. and Europe (save those responses), but religion as a whole is not the foundation of our society anymore. Devout Muslims, especially the crazy ones, do not like that. They do not want that as much, or even more, as the U.S. would want Sharia law to replace our Constitutional laws. Bridging that divide and answering those questions is what needs to happen to help resolve these issues.

It is a shame that a few among millions gives the whole lot a bad reputation. My interpretation of Jihad, from reading the Qur'an, is the act of spreading Islam and increasing it's numbers. Not a violent struggle against the non-believers.
 
777way
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:50 pm

^ You will never find any evidence if they are agents, and even if you do it will get lost or proven false with such authentic lies that you will have no choice but to believe they are a genuine Islamic force, representing true Islam.

Secondly I'm not denying at all they may be fighting a holy war but with misinterpreted principles which are not allowed in Islam, I have said that so in both my previous posts, you are the one who is not pausing to comprehend what I'm saying.

Muslims can only be voilent in their faith due to lack of understanding and misinterpretation, harrassment may also cause them to get emotionally charged and justify their acts even if they go against Islamic teachings, not that Islam or God or the Prophet (peace andf blessings on him) woiuld approve of their actions, thats just a normal human reaction, thats why patience and tolerence are advised.

You wont look at my example as a muslim I didnt even care about the cartoons made about the prophet as he himself would have laughed it off as an act of ignorence and agitation, but you will seek the negative examples in Islam because you are inclined to see things that way only, same as terrorists or even fanatics who'll see most others as bad, even though thats not the case.
 
UNCRDU
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:23 pm

I think one of the most difficult jobs in the world would be going undercover into a terrorist organization and bringing it down from the inside. Almost every plot that has been busted in the United States or abroad in recent years has been brought down this way, with inside information from sources that are deep undercover. Muslims, pretending to be terrorists, putting their lives on the line to combat jihadism and keep the rest of us safe. Islamic terrorism is indeed a huge problem but putting a blanket of condemnation over an entire religion ignores the important work that our own Muslim citizens are doing for us.

Just my $0.02
 
lewis
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:13 pm

Quoting hka098 (Reply 36):
My interpretation of Jihad, from reading the Qur'an, is the act of spreading Islam and increasing it's numbers. Not a violent struggle against the non-believers.

Even if it is so, historically, the spread of Islam was never done in a peaceful way.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 23):
Sadly this is a growing problem in Egypt where its Christian minority are being targeted more and more.

Not surprising, there are very few cases of Muslim countries with a Christian minority where that minority hasn't been targeted and in some cases eradicated. At the same time, Muslim minorities in Christian-majoriry countries keep growing and flourishing and yet, these countries are still branded as xenophobic and anti-Islamic. Go figure...
 
hka098
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:59 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 39):
Even if it is so, historically, the spread of Islam was never done in a peaceful way.

Islam can be replaced with Christianity in the sentence too. Conquistadores?
 
lewis
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:08 pm

Quoting hka098 (Reply 40):

Didn't say otherwise. Just noting that Jihad, whether it means spreading Islam and increasing numbers or holly war, is practically the same thing - agressive. Never compared it head to head with Christianity in that respect.
 
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:19 pm

I do not figure how some here can get to those wrong conclusions. Explain to me how blowing up a church can be considered Jihad either in trying to spread Islam peacefully or aggressively? I am sure that such actions will get a complete opposite results. No it is not Jihad it is simply a terrorist act.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
lewis
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:48 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 42):

From BBC:

"Blow up the churches while they are celebrating Christmas or any other time when the churches are packed," says a line from a video attributed to al-Qaeda, entitled Jihadi Encyclopaedia for the Destruction of the Cross, that has been widely circulated on the internet.

Well, the ones pushing for church attacks (al-Qaeda) are calling it a Jihad, maybe you should direct your comments to them??
 
777way
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:02 pm

Al Qaeda is no authority on Islam, they are a terrorist organisation that are extremeist deviants or agents of some other countries dont act so naieve that everything you see is black and white, I as a muslim know and am telling you they are doing everything un-Islamic, it looks like you people dont want to hear the moderates when they talk and then complain that they dont speak out against extremeists and terrorists.
 
lewis
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:07 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 44):
Al Qaeda is no authority on Islam, they are a terrorist organisation that are extremeist deviants or agents of some other countries dont act so naieve that everything you see is black and white, I as a muslim know and am telling you they are doing everything un-Islamic, it looks like you people dont want to hear the moderates when they talk and then complain that they dont speak out against extremeists and terrorists.

Who said that all of Islam is behind this? Just don't try to deny the fact that this attack, whether you call it terrorism, Jihad, or whatever you want, is religiously motivated and perpertrated by a group of Muslims against a group of Christians. Just because the whole of the Muslim world is not behind it does not make that statement untrue.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:27 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 44):
I as a muslim know and am telling you they are doing everything un-Islamic, it looks like you people dont want to hear the moderates when they talk and then complain that they dont speak out against extremeists and terrorists.

How do you explain statements like these, in regards to the recent murder of Salmaan Taseer?

Quote:
In a shockingly blunt endorsement of Punjab Governor Salmaan Taseer’s assassination, Ameer Jamat-e-Islami in Sindh Asadullah Bhutto has declared that the assassin will directly go to the “seventh heaven”.

He said this after a press conference addressed by JI Ameer Munawar Hasan at Idara-e-Noor-e-Haq on Tuesday. The press conference ended abruptly when a JI spokesman Sarfaraz Ahmad broke the news of Taseer’s assassination to Munawar. “Is he alive?” was his first reaction.

“Whoever has killed him is a pious man and will go directly to heaven,” replied Bhutto to a question put forward by this correspondent.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=23953&Cat=4

Quote:
Don’t mourn for assassinated Punjab governor or you will deserve the same fate, say group of 500 Pakistani scholars (and they’re the moderate ones)
http://tundratabloids.com/2011/01/50...slain-punjab-governor-or-else.html

Quote:
The assassin of the outspoken Pakistani governor was showered with rose petals by lawyers and people as he made his appearance in a court room to face murder charges, laying bare the increasing radicalisation of the Pakistani society.

Mumtaz Qadri, the police bodyguard who killed the Punjab governor Salman Taseer, appeared unrepentant in court, where waiting lawyers showered him with rose petals and others in the crowd slapped his back and kissed his cheek as he was led out amid heavy security, British newspaper The Guardian reported.

The paper said that religious organisations applauded the murder of the moderate governor and hailed his killer as 'Ghazi', religious warrior underscoring Pakistan's journey from a nation defined by moderate Islam to one increasingly influenced by fundamentalists.
http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report...assin-with-rose-petals_1491015-all

Quote:
Taseer's self-confessed killer, Mumtaz Qadri, was associated with the moderate Barelvi sect, according to one his colleagues. The Barelvis originated in India in the 19th century to defend traditional Islam and many practices and rites associated with the mystical Sufi strand of the faith.

Five hundred Barelvi scholars warned that anyone who expresses grief over Taseer's assassination could suffer the same fate.
http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Aki/Eng...to-Islamic-group_311497890074.html

And what do you think of this editorial?

http://www.hudson-ny.org/1783/egypt-muslim-terrorists
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
777way
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:28 pm

Did anyone say we are denying that its religiously motivated? but its misguided/misinterprated.
 
lewis
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:40 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 47):
Did anyone say we are denying that its religiously motivated? but its misguided/misinterprated.

It sure is misguided! But all the talk of "it is not a Jihad", it is not condoned by the Islamic religious leadership, well, for the ones doing the killings it is a Jihad so if you want to just comment on word technicalities...
 
hka098
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RE: Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt

Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:59 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 41):

Christianity has been much more sublime in the last couple of centuries. In times past they were just a violent in pursuing their ends as Islam. This is where I would normally say groups of people are subverting religion to suit their own agendas.

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