Superfly
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GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:47 am

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thetic...cks-off-the-2012-presidential-race


Herman Cain

Republicans hope that they have found their answer to Barack Obama.
I’ve never heard of the guy but he is a hero to many right-wingers in the Republican Party.
They are praising Herman Cain for his success as CEO of Godfather’s Pizza.
Thing is, I haven’t seen a Godfather’s Pizza since 1983. The last time I ate at a Godfather’s was after seeing the movie E.T. at the movie theater back in 1983.
I found their website and they boast over 500 stores nationwide.

Even if his experience is of a small forgotten about low brow pizza chain, he still has more private sector experience in running a business than Obama or anyone else in his administration.
This should be interesting.

[Edited 2011-01-16 20:48:54]
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ALTF4
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:50 am

He's also a talk show host in the Atlanta area, I believe.

Edit - derp.... missed the article stating that. Maybe I'll just go to bed if my first reply is so incompetent...

[Edited 2011-01-16 20:51:17]
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
 
futurepilot16
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:02 am

So....what are they hoping to gain by this? Are they hoping that the Minority vote is as even as possible by having two black guys run rather than Obama vs. a white candidate? If so then two things will happen:

1) They will be successful because Herman Cain appears to be a well educated church going man who will identify with the black community, especially the more conservative church going black community. Plus being a conservative republican, he'll get a significant amount of the right wing vote.

2) They will be un-successful because Obama is already such a popular icon in pop culture and is also popular with Liberals and moderates. If Herman Cain can't identify with minority Obama supporters, it will be tough for him.

Nonetheless, it's a good strategy by the GOP, but I doubt he'll get the nod to run for office, it might be a little too late since he's largely unknown.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
NIKV69
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:08 am

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):
Even if his experience is of a small forgotten about low brow pizza chain, he still has more private sector experience in running a business than Obama or anyone else in his administration

Business experince? We don't need no stinking experience!
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
mham001
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:08 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 2):
So....what are they hoping to gain by this?

"They" aren't doing anything. The man is announcing his candidacy, not his nomination by the party.
 
NIKV69
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:11 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 2):
Nonetheless, it's a good strategy by the GOP, but I doubt he'll get the nod to run for office, it might be a little too late since he's largely unknown

How does it apply to the GOP. I doubt he asked for their input beforehand. I have more of a chance at winning than this guy. He did this himself.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
rfields5421
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:12 am

In one context, everyone running for president in 2010 will be running against President Obama, Republican, Democrat, Liberitarian or other wise.

In the strict context - Mr. Cain will not be running against President Obama. He will be running against other Republicans and Tea Party semi-Republicans.

All trying to be the ONE Republican to run against the Democratic Party nominee, who will probably be President Obama.

Cain has good senior level management skills, but his work turning around the Philadelphia region of Burger King, and later at Godfather's. Under the ownership of Pillsbury, Godfather's had expanded too rapidly without being able to support their franchisee's. Cain save the brand from collapse.

Thanks to his leadership, they were able to escape from Pillsbury and survive the pizza chain industry turn away from fixed sit down restaurants into a delivery business model. Several chains did not survive that transition in the 90s.

I used to work in the corporate HQ of Pizza Hut, and have heard his name often - always used with respect - for his work at keeping Burger King from folding and at Godfather's. Most of his critical work at Godfather's involved solving the franchisee relationship problems and keeping the company out of bankruptcy from lawsuits by unhappy franchise owners.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:23 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 6):
I used to work in the corporate HQ of Pizza Hut, and have heard his name often - always used with respect - for his work at keeping Burger King from folding and at Godfather's. Most of his critical work at Godfather's involved solving the franchisee relationship problems and keeping the company out of bankruptcy from lawsuits by unhappy franchise owners.

Looks like he has the best of both worlds as far as business experience is concerned - Corporate level experience of course at Godfathers, but he had to be very familiar with small business, as all his franchisees would have been in that category.
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DocLightning
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:38 am

I have one comment and one comment only:

"And the GOP accused the Democrats of playing the race card?"
-Doc Lightning-

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Superfly
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:30 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 6):
In one context, everyone running for president in 2010 will be running against President Obama, Republican, Democrat, Liberitarian or other wise.

In the strict context - Mr. Cain will not be running against President Obama. He will be running against other Republicans and Tea Party semi-Republicans.

All trying to be the ONE Republican to run against the Democratic Party nominee, who will probably be President Obama.

We all know that but there is only so much that can fit in to the title when posting topics.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 6):
Thanks to his leadership, they were able to escape from Pillsbury

The Godfather was afraid of THIS guy?  Wow!
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Dreadnought
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:26 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):

"And the GOP accused the Democrats of playing the race card?"

And you just confirm what people say of the left - they see a black man and they first and foremost see his race.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:34 pm

Herman Cain is one hell of a businessman. I like him.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 2):
So....what are they hoping to gain by this? Are they hoping that the Minority vote is as even as possible by having two black guys run rather than Obama vs. a white candidate? If so then two things will happen:

Am I the only one who thinks it's racist to automatically assume his greatest qualification is that he's a black man?

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 2):
it might be a little too late since he's largely unknown.

I agree he's a long shot, but remember--Obama was largely unknown two years before the last presidential election. People thought Hillary had it in the bag until quite late.
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Superfly
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:47 pm

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 11):
remember--Obama was largely unknown two years before the last presidential election.

Actually Obama was well known 4 years before his election as President and was the keynote speaker at the 2004 Democratic Convention.

Never heard of Herman Cain and forgot about Godfather's Pizza decades ago.
You are right that it is possible for him to get his name out there and be a major player within the next 2 years.
He could rise to fame quicker than a Domino's Pizza delivery driver.  
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Ken777
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:48 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 3):
Business experince? We don't need no stinking experience!

That became very clear after the MBA and CEO drug us intro a totally unnecessary major war and left the country in The Great Recession at the end of their Administration.
 
NIKV69
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:06 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
"And the GOP accused the Democrats of playing the race card?"

Again the GOP had nothing to do with this.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
And you just confirm what people say of the left - they see a black man and they first and foremost see his race.

Well don't forget that when the left elects someone black it's noble and historic but if the right does it's tokenism. Kind of like what Harry Reid said. "I just can't understand how any hispanic can be a Republican" Sub black for hispanic. Isn't elitism great?

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 11):
Am I the only one who thinks it's racist to automatically assume his greatest qualification is that he's a black man?

Or that somehow Boehner and the top people in the party had something to do with this.   
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
rfields5421
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:16 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
The Godfather was afraid of THIS guy?

I don't know specifically about Godfather's but during the 'let's get huge' corporate days of the 60s, 70s and 80s, many growing companies were acquired by other larger companies.

Often the smaller new division was in an industry where the larger parent was not familiar with the key factors.

For example - Pepsi makes soft drinks. They bought Pizza Hut, KFC and Taco Bell more to lock those fast food companies into exclusive Pepsi soft drink contracts than to run them as quick service restaurants.

While owned by Pepsi the three companies almost never cooperated in anything, They were also subject to another practice of the 70s-80s - the "bungee boss". An executive who was a rising star at Pepsi would come out to Wichita or Irvine or Louisville and spend one or two years as Chief Financial Officer, or Chief Operations Office or even CEO. Then they went back to Pepsi, the REAL company.

That led to a lot of changes in strategic direction, product focus, etc as each temporary boss tried to make his/her mark on the company - when he did not know hardly anything about the core business of QSR. Even worse is that most companies in the QSR sector depend greatly on franchisees for long term success. These "bungee bosses" could care less about relations with franchisees. They almost never were accountable for the long term impacts of their decisions.

One of those type decisions I had to deal with was the incompatible IT systems and infrastructure each developed under different Chief Information Officers.

I have heard similar things happened at both Burger King and Godfathers, and many other companies.

I believe one of the key factors in McDonald's success is that they were never bought by a larger company. They have always been a QSR company first and foremost. Even though much of their profitability comes from their being one of the largest real estate investment companies in the US, their core and corporate focus is still their food business.

Not to say the dough boy was bad, or badly run. But Pillsbury was a food production and food distribution company back in the 80s, not a restaurant company. By the late 90s, Pillsbury has sold off Godfathers, Steak & Ale, Bennigans and Burger King,

Today they are no longer a food production company - just a marketing division owned by General Mills (food production) and The J.M. Smucker Company (sales and distribution).
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:25 pm

I never heard of this man. There is still quite a bit of time before the primaries. I wish him good luck though I think some heavy duties will declare their intentions too. I can see Mitt Romney running and Ron Paul also.

My favourite to run against Obama is Donald Trump. I hope he will be the finalist opponent or maybe the third man as an independent candidate which might be even better. Strange hair style but gread guy and quite fit for the job.
Can't wait for the debates. I hope he will be there!

  
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NIKV69
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:28 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 16):
My favourite to run against Obama is Donald Trump

What is so sad is that Trump would probably be 10 times the president Obama is. I would vote for him.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:33 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 17):
What is so sad is that Trump would probably be 10 times the president Obama is. I would vote for him.

The man has stature and plenty $$$$ to pay for his campaign by himself.

  
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474218
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:02 pm

Herman Kane is a conservative black man with extensive business experience as will as being former charman of the Kansas City branch of the Federal Reserve Bank. He ran for the Republican nomination for the Senate in 2004 but came in second in a three man race (I voted for him).

He has announced that he will start an exploratory committee to see if he has the support and can raise enough money (after all Obama say he plans to raise $1B for his 2012 campaign) to allow him to seek the GOP nomination for President in 2012.

IMO he would be a good person to run against Obama, as his political philosophy is 100% opposite than that the President's. His candidacy will show that not all black people are liberal and want big (womb to tomb) government control of their lives.
 
Ken777
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:23 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 17):
What is so sad is that Trump would probably be 10 times the president Obama is. I would vote for him.

Trump would hate the job as it is a sharing of power with Congress. Getting along with 535 Egos is not his style - especially when they don't agree with him.
 
cargolex
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:48 pm

Trump won't run for President, and if he does, won't survive the primaries. Herm Cain won't get far either.

Quote:
Well don't forget that when the left elects someone black it's noble and historic but if the right does it's tokenism.

Like it or not, the Republican party has a deep history of being Anti-civil rights, Anti-Black, and generally speaking anti-Minority. They're no longer anti-Jewish and they're less anti-Black than they once were (see Lee Atwater), but I wouldn't fancy Republicans chances with Latinos in the near future after fielding such "inclusive" figures as Tom Tancredo and Steve King. Despite the GOP's score with Marco Rubio.

There are always a small number of people who will find the appeal of the party trumps their interests - witness the Log Cabin Republicans. The Republican party has been almost uniformly anti-gay for decades. This very election cycle it ran a candidate that viewed homosexuality as a mental disease akin to Alcoholism. But the small number of people who comprise the Log Cabin Republicans carry on anyway. Not really sure why.

It's also true that the most prominent Black Republicans of the last decade have been, well, underwhelming, or...well...a little out there. Michael Steele? Or maybe alot out there? Alan Keyes? Allen West?

Xenophobia, Homophobia, and Racism are regularly scheduled programming for the GOP and have been for forty plus years - basically since Barry Goldwater. It should come as no surprise at all that they are judged far more harshly on matters of race than the Democrats.

[Edited 2011-01-17 08:49:08]
 
slider
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:11 pm

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 21):
Like it or not, the Republican party has a deep history of being Anti-civil rights, Anti-Black, and generally speaking anti-Minority.

Even thought they were the ones who passed the Civil Rights bill. Humph.



I love the Herminator. The guy is money. He is so on target with his speeches, his policy thoughts, his arguments for foundational government, and has done a great job helping to reach out to normal citizens who have grown frustrated. his business smarts certainly help.

I don't think he's got a chance at being elected but the greater cause is that he's going to ask some VERY tough questions and will seek answers. he's going to push hard and it'll put Obama and big government statists on the spot. If he does nothing but shine the light it'll be a success.

But except for not having held office, his qualifications are already far greater than the present incumbent of 1600.
 
NIKV69
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:31 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 20):
Trump would hate the job as it is a sharing of power with Congress. Getting along with 535 Egos is not his style - especially when they don't agree with him.

Oh yea def. It's not really practical but he would be fun to watch.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
cargolex
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:38 pm

Quote:
Even thought they were the ones who passed the Civil Rights bill. Humph.

The Civil Rights act of 1964 helped create the modern Republican party. You are incorrect when you say that "they" passed it - it passed as a bipartisan measure against the objections of traditional southern Democrats - who disappeared overnight after it's passage, accellerating a trend away from Democrats in the south that had been building since the 1930s. Democrats were split about passage - virtually all Democrats aside from those in southern states voted in favor. But the old line Southern Democrats were unilaterally opposed. And many prominent Dems were included in that opposition, including Robert Byrd and Al Gore, Sr.

From 1964 onward, the southeast essentially swapped from being a Democratic stronghold where no Republicans had much of a chance to virtually unassailable Republican territory - and using the Civil Rights act and it's consequences as a way to turn out southern Republicans became a staple of Republican tactics after 1968, when the so-called "Southern Strategy" was first employed by Nixon and later to great effect by Ronald Reagan. And I'm not making that up - Republican strategists and luminaries from Lee Atwater to Henry Kissinger have publicly admitted to using the racial bias of (many but not all) southern whites as a means of drumming up electoral support from 1968 until the George W. Bush years.

[Edited 2011-01-17 10:43:18]
 
futurepilot16
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:48 pm

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 11):
Am I the only one who thinks it's racist to automatically assume his greatest qualification is that he's a black man?

That's not racist, it's fact. Do you think John McCain picked Sarah Palin as his VP because he thought she was intelligent, and has a great a political mind? No, he picked her as VP, to try and scrape up all the female vote left over from Hilary Clinton losing to Obama as Democratic candidate for POTUS. Face the facts.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 17):
What is so sad is that Trump would probably be 10 times the president Obama is. I would vote for him.

I'm sure you would, hell you hate Obama so much that you would vote for a girl scout for President over him, but I guess and uninformed vote still counts.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
D L X
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:55 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 22):
Even thought they were the ones who passed the Civil Rights bill. Humph.

I think you need to review your history.

Civil Rights was a product of RFK and LBJ.

In fact, the people that didn't like it almost uniformly joined the Republican party.
 
NIKV69
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:05 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 25):
I'm sure you would, hell you hate Obama so much that you would vote for a girl scout for President over him, but I guess and uninformed vote still counts.

Hell how do you think he is in the white house? LOL. Sorry to see your hatred growing so much you have signed on to the "If your against Obama your full of hate" crap. Keep it up it's working wonders. Just like the stimulus bill. It's ok I can understand your frustration with a President that talked so big and has delivered so little.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
AGM100
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:09 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 26):
In fact, the people that didn't like it almost uniformly joined the Republican party.



One big reason for that was ... along with the "civil rights" legislation came the massive agenda of the big nanny state democrats. Redistributive (leftist) policies go hand in hand with the "civil rights" legislation and republicans moved away from it.
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mham001
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:49 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
I have one comment and one comment only:

"And the GOP accused the Democrats of playing the race card?"

I assumed that a doctor would have some intelligence about the political system but apparently not. The GOP hasn't done ANYTHING. A black man announced he would like to run for the GOP nomination. Thats all, don't get your panties in a twist.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
We all know that but there is only so much that can fit in to the title when posting topics.

Not the fault of the title, but those who's knee jerks hardest have proven some bizarre ignorance.

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 21):
Like it or not, the Republican party has a deep history of being Anti-civil rights, Anti-Black, and generally speaking anti-Minority.

Actually, the Democratic party has the deepest history in all that.
 
cargolex
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:02 pm

Quote:

Actually, the Democratic party has the deepest history in all that.

Okay, I'll accept that in the 19th century, Democrats were generally opposed to civil rights. I'll even accept that prior to 1964, Southern democrats were so opposed to civil rights that they were willing to buck their party in opposition to things like integrating the military.

But after 1964, the situation is reversed - and there is little ambiguity about the attitudes of both parties in the modern era on this issue.

But if you want to go back to the 19th century, we could argue about Republican leaders such as Abraham Lincoln being Liberals. Would you like to go down that road?
 
D L X
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:12 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 28):
One big reason for that was ... along with the "civil rights" legislation came the massive agenda of the big nanny state democrats.

False.

Please don't revise history. The Civil Rights Act and the subsequent "Southern Strategy" are solely to blame for the shift in the 60s and early 70s.
 
rfields5421
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:10 pm

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 24):
The Civil Rights act of 1964 helped create the modern Republican party. You are incorrect when you say that "they" passed it - it passed as a bipartisan measure against the objections of traditional southern Democrats - who disappeared overnight after it's passage,
Quoting D L X (Reply 26):
Civil Rights was a product of RFK and LBJ.

But don't ever forget that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 would probably have never passed had not President Kennedy been killed.

LBJ had been pushing this type legislation for 10 years or more. He was the one person in the Kennedy administration most able to get difficult legislation through Congress. And he was totally shut out by the President and his brother.

When Kennedy died, LBJ saw the chance to create a "legacy" for the deceased president by making two of his (LBJ's) favorite causes - Civil Rights and Voting Rights - into law. Using the theme that it was a memorial to the dead president, LBJ pushed, twisted arms, and even blackmailed members of the House and Senate to get the laws passed.

President Kennedy was already at odds with his brother Robert because the President wanted less stringent federal action related to Civil Rights and Voting Rights for the next year. He was not going to push Congress to pass Civil Rights or Voting Rights legislation in 1964. Not with an election in progress.

While Kennedy was popular as a person, his administration and many policies were not popular and there was a strong chance he would be defeated in 1964.

President Obama is in the same situation heading into 2012. You will not see him pushing hard for his agenda items next year. The plan will be to avoid losing votes, not to push to gain votes. (Though this next election will not be decided over issues like heath care, or 'government interference in state matters' or immigration or any other hot topic issues. Jobs is the one make or break issue for 2012. If 7 or 8% of American workers are unemployed - Obama loses. If unemployment is below 5%, Obama wins.)

I seriously doubt Cain will get through the Republican nomination process. He might make a good VP. There are some Republicans out there we have not heard much about. I expect Texas Gov Rick Perry to be a contender.
 
slider
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:59 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 26):
Civil Rights was a product of RFK and LBJ.

In fact, the people that didn't like it almost uniformly joined the Republican party.

We can pull voting records, if you like...
 
D L X
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:22 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 33):
We can pull voting records, if you like...

You go do that.
 
AvObserver
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:00 am

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 21):
but I wouldn't fancy Republicans chances with Latinos in the near future after fielding such "inclusive" figures as Tom Tancredo and Steve King. Despite the GOP's score with Marco Rubio.

How sad that concern over rampant illegal immigration has somehow become synonomous with being anti-Latino since it's really NOT. That's mere Left-wing media spin. It's also spin to say that most U.S. Latinos don't favor curbs on illegal immigration; that's absurd. You can make a case that Latino advocacy groups that oppose efforts to enforce immigration laws who are demonizing and slandering those like King and Tancredo who push for more border security are twisting and skewing the truth to turn Hispanics against the GOP. Who in their right mind would advocate for LESS immigration law enforcement and border security unless they had an agenda that wasn't in the interests of U.S. citizens? Aside from the unscrupulous businesses that want cheap illegal alien labor, only those with an ethnic agenda like the National Council Of La Raza and its ilk. Under their script, all efforts to control illegal immigration are racist and an affront to all Latinos. How ridiculous and again, how sad.
 
474218
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:44 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 33):
Quoting D L X (Reply 26):
Civil Rights was a product of RFK and LBJ.

In fact, the people that didn't like it almost uniformly joined the Republican party.

We can pull voting records, if you like...



The 1964 Civil Rights Bill was voted for by:

In the Senate: 61% of the Democrats and 82% of the Republicans.

In the House: 63% of the Democrats and 80% of the Republicans.

So it was a bi-partisan bill but the Democratic President (LBJ) had a harder time getting his fellow Democrats to vote for his bill than he had getting Republicans to support it.
 
rfields5421
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:47 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 36):
So it was a bi-partisan bill but the Democratic President (LBJ) had a harder time getting his fellow Democrats to vote for his bill than he had getting Republicans to support it.



You cannot consider votes in the 50s and 60s as party-line votes like today.

Some of the most liberal members of Congress were Republicans and some of the most conservative were Democrats.

Due to the backlash from the War of Northern Aggression - it was impossible for anyone to be elected in the deep south if they were a member of the Republican Party.

I still remember school teachers lecturing that is was all the fault of the "damned Republicans" when my school was forced to integrate. The South remembered that a "liberal Republican president" had federalized National Guard troops the governor was using to keep blacks out of a public high school and forced the same troops to allow integration.

The same "Yankee Republican liberals" were behind support for Brown vs the Board of Education, and integration efforts across the South. In 1964 - the Democrats were conservatives, the Republicans were socialist progressive liberals - at least to voters in the south. To many in the South, the Kennedy brothers were closet Republicans.

The people voting against the bill were largely from the south, and even if they supported the legislation, their record vote had to be against the bill. That would allow them to campaign for re-election.

That was very common back them, and is still so today to some extent. People who make symbolic votes against a bill, not because they want to stop the legislation, but because it is important to their re-election.

An example is the current money being wasted in the House to bring to a vote a bill to repeal the President Obama health care plan. The House vote will mean nothing, because the bill will not pass the Senate, and certainly would not sustain a Presidential Veto if it were to pass.

All the effort, and your tax money being spent on that effort, is purely symbolic - to help their re-election changes.

As noted above - one of the key long term impacts of the 1964 vote was that the Republican Party became 'acceptable' in the South.
 
474218
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:55 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 37):
To many in the South, the Kennedy brothers were closet Republicans.


If you mean John (Jack) and Robert (Bobby) I would agree with you, both would be considered conservatives today.

But Teddy has been always been a lost cause.
 
Superfly
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:01 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 13):
That became very clear after the MBA and CEO drug us intro a totally unnecessary major war and left the country in The Great Recession at the end of their Administration.


Thing is, Dubya didn't earn his credentials honestly. He most likely had his frat-brothers taking test and writing papers for him.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 15):
during the 'let's get huge' corporate days of the 60s, 70s and 80s, many growing companies were acquired by other larger companies.


Is that going on today?
Look at how Delta gobbled up Northwest Airlines. Look at the United merger with Continental and the possible merging of Iberia with British Airways.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 16):
My favourite to run against Obama is Donald Trump.


  

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 28):
along with the "civil rights" legislation came the massive agenda of the big nanny state democrats. Redistributive (leftist) policies go hand in hand with the "civil rights" legislation and republicans moved away from it.


  
Not true.
The southerners had no problem with FDR's New Deal policies and farm subsidies.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 36):
So it was a bi-partisan bill but the Democratic President (LBJ) had a harder time getting his fellow Democrats to vote for his bill than he had getting Republicans to support it.


As D L X and CargoLex pointed out, those Democrats have jumped shipped to the Republican Party soon after.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 37):
Some of the most liberal members of Congress were Republicans and some of the most conservative were Democrats.


  
Very true!
Bring back the Concorde
 
rfields5421
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:40 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 39):
Is that going on today?
Look at how Delta gobbled up Northwest Airlines. Look at the United merger with Continental and the possible merging of Iberia with British Airways.

Those are acquisitions with the industry of the buying company.

The 70s and 80s trend created many companies buying other companies which had nothing in common with the parent company.

If this were the 70s/80s, Delta would have bought D.H. Horton (home builder), not Northwest. Or maybe CSX (railroad) or Royal Caribbean (cruise line).

Cain was one of the executives of the age who realized the company he was assigned to save could never thrive under the ownership of a company which did not understand, or care, about the restaurant company operations.

He led the effort to fix the main problems, but worked primarily to find a way to separate Godfathers from Pillsbury - to the betterment of both companies.

[Edited 2011-01-17 19:42:16]
 
Geezer
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:50 am

quote= rfields5421, reply=40

He led the effort to fix the main problems, but worked primarily to find a way to separate Godfathers from Pillsbury - to the betterment of both companies.


quote= Slider, reply=22

I love the Herminator. The guy is money. He is so on target with his speeches, his policy thoughts, his arguments for foundational government, and has done a great job helping to reach out to normal citizens who have grown frustrated. his business smarts certainly help.


quote= JBirdAV8r, reply=11

Herman Cain is one hell of a businessman. I like him.

Thank you rfields5421, Slider, and JBirdAV8r; I must confess, I am not at all familiar with Mr. Cain but after reading your comments about him, I am ready to vote for him in 2012......( assuming of course, if he gets the nomination )

One thing that has always bothered me about Democrats and Republicans alike, everyone always runs around, " I don't like this guy", "I don't like that guy", "I'd NEVER vote for that guy", ...........all before even knowing who is going to be running, as of election day !

I happen to know a lot about John McCain; he is a great person, he's definitely more honest than 92% of all politicians, BUT, i didn't want to see him get the nomination, ( simply because he wasn't my first choice to be the president ) but as we all know, he did get the nomination.........now, who do you suppose I ended up voting for ?
I'll give you a clue.....John McCain !

My point being, on election day, there are only going to be one Democrat and one Republican to choose from. I know, I know, there are always a few "this and thats" "running", but realistically, their chances are miniscule, to say the least.
I think one of the worst things anyone can do, is to get so "caught up" in all of this "Democrat vs Republican" stuff.
I don't want ANYONE becoming "POTUS" unless he / she is : honest, has at least a "fourth grade" grasp of mathematics, has some visible "track record" of having been in some kind of leadership position, the country knows who he / she is and where he / she comes from, and a few more things, too numerous to mention. I would add to that, having a spotless military record would be a big plus also. If the Democrats can come up with a nominee with these qualification in 2012, and the Republicans can't, I will certainly vote for that person. This big Democrat - Republican controversy reminds me of the "Canon vs Nikon" running "debate" which always seems to be "simmering" on the Aviation Photography forum; I hereby "challenge" anyone on A.net to PROVE to me that a Canon ( or a Nikon ) can take better pictures than the other one ! Are there "reasons" to choose one brand over the other ? I'm sure there is; probably having to do with PERSONAL CHOICE ! But it's not quite that simple when you start choosing who gets to be president; it is a lot more involved.

I know there are any number of people "on here" who A. don't like George Bush B. despise George Bush C. even HATE George Bush But you are forgetting TWO THINGS that George Bush accomplished, that will forever earn him the eternal gratitude of Americans everywhere, as being this country"s "savior" ; he prevented Al Gore and John Kerry from becoming "POTUS"! ( I almost "weep" when I think that during the nomination process, I was "rooting" for someone else ! )



quote= Ken777, reply=13

That became very clear after the MBA and CEO drug us intro a totally unnecessary major war and left the country in The Great Recession at the end of their Administration.

I have to call you on that one Ken ! That's possibly "THE CLASSIC EXAMPLE" of the most "DOGMATIC" statement of the last 10 years ! "unnecessary major war"..?......"The Great Recession"..?......and they were "all GWB's FAULT" ?
( BTW.........FYI,..... it means "one who states one's opinions as if they are proven facts" ) Nothing "factual" about that statement !

If you don't like George Bush, that's O.K. That's your opinion; you're entitled to your opinion; but if you want to CHANGE someone else's mind about your opinion..........be prepared to present some FACTS ! Be prepared to make a case why your opinion is more "factual" than someone else's opinion ! Do I think GWB was a "model student" when he was in college ? No I do not ! Did he "abuse alcohol" just a bit ? He probably did. So have a hell of a lot of other people ! ( even some Democrats ! ) ( Sorry, I'm getting "off thread" again ! )

Let me sum this all up;..............on election day, ( or when you mail in your AB ) you vote for the more "qualified" of the two candidates running; ( assuming one has "satisfied" the aforementioned qualifications ! )
( and don't worry about what brand of camera he shoots with )

Charley
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
 
slider
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:19 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 36):
The 1964 Civil Rights Bill was voted for by:

In the Senate: 61% of the Democrats and 82% of the Republicans.

In the House: 63% of the Democrats and 80% of the Republicans.

So it was a bi-partisan bill but the Democratic President (LBJ) had a harder time getting his fellow Democrats to vote for his bill than he had getting Republicans to support it.

Thanks 474218...

Cat got your tongue, DLX?
 
Superfly
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:28 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 42):

The Democratic and Republican parties were much different 40+ years ago.
CargoLex and D L X clearly pointed that out.
Bring back the Concorde
 
AGM100
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:35 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 31):
Please don't revise history. The Civil Rights Act and the subsequent "Southern Strategy" are solely to blame for the shift in the 60s and early 70s.



Agreed ... the "southern strategy" as it was coined (used as a racial wedge) was in fact based on fiscal conservative values of states rights and independence. As we know now ...it was poorly timed and with "states rights" being perceived as a argument to enact further anti civil rights voting laws. With Wallace supporters in the South ... some of that perception in my opinion was valid. However , the left wing also used it as a opportunity to grow central power over the states ; so conservatives were caught in the trap that was set by the liberals who overwhelmingly supported anti civil rights laws previously. Conservatives out smarted again ... nothing new.

Tactical errors by conservatives ie Goldwater , Nixon are to blame as you pointed out . But it was a totally different time then different rules and different issues. We don't have to fight about civil rights anymore ... Do we ? Really ?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 39):
Not true.

The southerners had no problem with FDR's New Deal policies and farm subsidies.



Agreed ... however the economy in the South took off and it did become a issue to middle class voters later on. Especially in light of the huge Great Society efforts .
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm

I find it sad that we're arguing who was worse 60 years ago. What party voted what, and how have the parties changed... who cares? I wish politicians could focus on the issues at hand rather than bash each other about events happening half a century ago!
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
Superfly
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:02 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 44):
As we know now ...it was poorly timed and with "states rights" being perceived as a argument to enact further anti civil rights voting laws.

You have got to be kidding.
You're applying contemporary issues of today to the 1968 election.
Richard Nixon was trying to win as many votes as possible as any candidate would. He pressed a hot button issue that played very well in the South in order to win. Nixon played the race card and it worked.
Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

[Edited 2011-01-18 09:15:29]
Bring back the Concorde
 
AGM100
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:18 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 46):
Nixon played the race card and it worked.



How ? Sorry Larry ... I understand playing to states rights issues ... but do you believe that was anti civil rights.? In light of 1960'S politics ; of which I am not a expert ...was that how the issue was perceived at the time ?

Was the States Rights platform perceived as a platform to allow States to vote on Civil Rights laws ?
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Superfly
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:29 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 47):
In light of 1960'S politics ; of which I am not a expert ...was that how the issue was perceived at the time ?

Was the States Rights platform perceived as a platform to allow States to vote on Civil Rights laws ?

States Rights is a code word for segregation. Just 20 year prior in 1948, Strom Thurmond ran an overtly racist campaign under the 'States Rights Party'. It was a reaction to President Truman desegregating the military. States Rights was always an issue to Southern plantation owners during and after slavery. Yes they were all Democrats way back then.
Trent Lott's (R-MS) praise of Storm Thurmond's 1948 campaign got him in a lot of trouble 8 years ago.
Those that have a solid grasp on US history is well aware of the intentions and meanings of 'States Rights'.
Perhaps it may have a different meaning today but Nixon and his cronies knew exactly what they were doing to win southern white votes.
CargoLex in replay #24 explains it in further detail.
Bring back the Concorde
 
AGM100
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RE: GOP's 1st Announced Candidate To Run Against Obama

Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:44 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 48):
States Rights is a code word for segregation



Ok .. I understand that now. So in your opinion do you believe the GOP is capable of instituting segregation again ? Is that the argument ?
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !

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