MadameConcorde
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Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:13 am

I saw this on several news sites this morning. JC Duvalier Baby Doc landed in Haiti on board an Air France flight.

See the AF flight bringing the dictator back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1b1lkFOfkQ&feature=player_embedded

BBC News story
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-11943820

Haiti Xchange forum - get the Haitians opinions
http://www.haitixchange.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/5922/P36/

He said he is going to work on rebuilding his country. How does he dare?
A press conference with the tyrant is scheduled today in Port au Prince.

Are the Haitians so forgetful? How is he ever allowed back in the country?

Poor them . I hope they haven't forgotten how he left the country in ruins when he fled. And his 3 million dollars wedding when people were starving.

 
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mal787
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:05 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
See the AF flight bringing the dictator back
Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):

How is he ever allowed back in the country?


Well who paid for his Ticket?,Who has been watching him while living in their country?Who is a supporter? Are Hiatians forgetfull no. Vulnerable yes,
How is he allowed back in the country ? ask those that pull the strings !

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MadameConcorde
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:41 pm

Quoting mal787 (Reply 1):
Well who paid for his Ticket?

I doubt he was sitting in the back of the plane. They may have even blocked the whole F cabin for him.
Wondering how many Tontons Macoutes were waiting for him at the airport.
They have probably all organized his return between the two countries Baby Doc free to come and go at his leisure.
Let's see how many Haitians will protest his return.
This is sick.  

Some are saying Arristide is now expected back in Port au Prince any moment.
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Aesma
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:04 pm

Apparently he was greeted by 2000 supporters.

Quoting mal787 (Reply 1):
Well who paid for his Ticket?,Who has been watching him while living in their country?Who is a supporter? Are Hiatians forgetfull no. Vulnerable yes,
How is he allowed back in the country ? ask those that pull the strings !

mal787

He has some millions left. And the French authorities have no basis for arresting him (if anything, they would put him on a charter back to his country as an illegal alien !).

BTW, that plane is a local A320 plane, so he made a stop somewhere between Paris and Haïti, probably at PTP.

I just watched the video (had to download it first) and the woman journalist said "Guadeloupe" so I guessed right.

On another note, it's possible he could be arrested, last time he wanted to come Préval said he would arrest him.

Also, doesn't he look ill ?

[Edited 2011-01-17 06:29:38]
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MaverickM11
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:20 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
Are the Haitians so forgetful?

Peru elected a president that destroyed the country only a couple decades prior, so yes, they probably are.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
ogre727
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:58 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
Peru elected a president that destroyed the country only a couple decades prior, so yes, they probably are.

But he has done so much better this time around... so who´s to say...
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MaverickM11
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:56 am

Quoting ogre727 (Reply 5):
But he has done so much better this time around... so who´s to say...

Very true, but boy I can't imagine anyone wanting to take that risk
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TransIsland
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:44 pm

Looks like he's been arrested. About time.

Lock. Him. Up.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:53 pm

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 7):
Looks like he's been arrested. About time.

Lock. Him. Up.

I just saw this news.The police arrested him and took him to Court.
I hope there is no bail system in Haiti. I hope they keep him locked for the rest of his life this cruel dictator!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110118/...am_ca/cb_haiti_ex_dictator_returns


PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti – Haitian police led ex-dictator Jean-Claude Duvalier out of his hotel and took him to court Tuesday without saying whether he was being charged with crimes committed under his brutal regime.
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luv2fly
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:10 pm

CNN is reporting that he could be back at his hotel later today.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:00 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 9):
CNN is reporting that he could be back at his hotel later today.

If that's true then the Haitians are a joke.
Just think... this big murderer and his tonton macoutes had so many people killed and he stole so much money from the people!  Wow!
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mirrodie
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:13 pm

First, for many of the youngin's here:

Baby Doc JC is not a rapper. This is one of those times you can use the internet to search about who Baby Doc is and actually learn something.

Second,

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 10):
If that's true then the Haitians are a joke.

To be fair, Marie, that is wrong. He appeals to one crowd but is hated by another. His involvement there is a cause of much polarization, not quite unlike what we are seeing here with Sarah Palin (some love her and some hate her)

We're all wondering what he is doing there. But considering what the elections have been going through, I think his presence there might sway some.
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rfields5421
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:23 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 10):
If that's true then the Haitians are a joke.

Come on - even for an infamous dictator they have to develop a valid legal case before he can be detained. If that work was already done and supportable charges had been filed, he would probably have been deported from France years ago, or at least have an Interpol warrant active.

Though I have no personal doubt he is guilty of many crimes, it is important that things be done in a legal manner which leaves no doubt of his guilt.
 
TransIsland
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:33 am

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 11):
not quite unlike what we are seeing here with Sarah Palin (some love her and some hate her)

Now, this is a first... I shall rush to the defense of Sarah Palin. As little as I know about her term as governor in Alaaaska, I doubt that she had death squadrons going through the streets at night to rid the state of Democrats.

Yes, she "polarises," but so do all politicians to a degree. I guess Hitler also "polarises," at least I have met a few idiots who still think this whole Aryan race garbage was a good idea.

I would still not vote for Palin, and would like for her to spend the rest of her life in Wasilla's obscurity, however, for Baby Doc Duvalier I have something else in mind, and that would be a very small room with an obstructed view - obstructed by big fat metal bars.

Now, I agree with you that even Duvalier deserves a trial, as otherwise the rule of law becomes arbitrary. (Also "deserving" of trials IMHO are war criminals, terrorists, etc.) I would think it a shame if Haiti missed this opportunity, though it would not necessarily surprise me, as I fear that "justice" in Haiti is bought much cheaper than in many other countries. Should this turn out to be the scenario, then I would kinda concur with Madam Concorde...
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ImperialEagle
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:21 am

The scent of money is a powerful magnet for the likes of Duvalier. The corrupt are like flies on ------well, you know. His little plan may damned well back-fire on him though. While he is out for the power-grab, some people with a good memory may do him in. I have empathy for the Hatian people. Generation after generation of hopelessness. Birth-control and education would do much for them. Hopefully some of the money promised to them will begin to make a change.
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oly720man
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:15 pm

Well, he's now been charged with corruption, etc, etc, etc

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12219608

Haiti's former leader Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier has been charged with corruption and embezzlement during his 1971-1986 rule, prosecutors say.

Mr Duvalier was allowed to go free after questioning, but a judge will decide whether his case goes to trial.

The ex-leader, who denies wrongdoing, made a surprise return to Haiti on Sunday after 24 years in exile.

He was regarded as a playboy during his time in office, when he used a brutal militia to control the country.

He said he had "come to help" after last year's devastating earthquake.

Port-au-Prince's chief prosecutor Aristidas Auguste told Reuters that charges of corruption, theft, misappropriation of funds and other alleged crimes had been brought against him.


Now the power plays start.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:17 pm

Allowed to go free? How shocking!!

The Duvalier dynasty 1957-1986

Papa Doc the tather
Despite a 1957 prohibition against presidential reelection, Duvalier ran for office and won with an official tally of 1,320,748 votes to zero. Not content with this sham display of democracy, he went on in 1964 to declare himself president for life. For Duvalier, the move was a matter of political tradition; seven heads of state before him had claimed the same title.

Baby Doc the son
By neglecting his role in government, Jean-Claude squandered a considerable amount of domestic and foreign goodwill and facilitated the dominance of Haitian affairs by a clique of hard- line Duvalierist cronies who later became known as the dinosaurs.

More here
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/haiti/duvalier-dynasty.htm

 
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mirrodie
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:44 pm

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 13):
As little as I know about her term as governor in Alaaaska, I doubt that she had death squadrons going through the streets at night to rid the state of Democrats.

Many movements in history start small and only build from there.

Palin's remarks could be perceived by some as firestarters. Wait a minute!

Just look at the Arizona shootings and how many were quick to cast blame on Palin and the Far right within hours of the melee! Honestly that serves as a PRIME example of how things can be percieved as starting. If that is not a Prime and Fresh in your mind example of how people can distort perception to their own causes, then I do not know what is!


On topic, Duvalier was a bad man IMHO and yet there are some that support him. I personally think he, and more so his WIFE (ex), ought to be jailed and all finances returned to Haiti. No government should harbor such sociopaths from justice.


But one lingering thought that is very odd for me:

First, put yourself in this guys shoes, better yet, in his head....

-I dictated and killed many, fled my country and have been living the high life in France for over 20 years. Hmmm....let's head to Haiti where they will likely serve me justice.

I, and I dont think most of the world can even fathom, why he would leave the security of France and return to Haiti. He had to have known he would have been arrested and possibly jailed or tried for crimes. No man in their right man would return to that.

UNLESS you consider the following causes(taken from the mindset of someone who has never dictated a country)....

a) they have friends in the current administration who could coordinate a media circus and yet guarantee him (behind closed doors) his safe return OR

b) he is truly contrite and willing to concede his wrongdoings.


OR

c) Not for nothing.....he looked a LOT like Muhammed Ali(with Parkinson's, did anyone else notice that?) in his recent videos and photos, with a wide eye glare to boot. He looks like Mohammed Ali's twin, no joke.

Perhaps he has Alzheimers and Parkinson's and may truly not be all there.
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hka098
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:07 pm

This dude has an amazing ego to just walk back into a country that exiled him a quarter of a century ago.
 
TransIsland
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:41 pm

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 17):
Just look at the Arizona shootings and how many were quick to cast blame on Palin and the Far right within hours of the melee! Honestly that serves as a PRIME example of how things can be percieved as starting. If that is not a Prime and Fresh in your mind example of how people can distort perception to their own causes, then I do not know what is!

As much as I dislike the American Right, I still do not think that the Arizona shooting is what they had in mind... and yes, I am aware of Sharron Angle's "Second Amendment Remedies" statement.

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 17):
On topic, Duvalier was a bad man IMHO and yet there are some that support him. I personally think he, and more so his WIFE (ex), ought to be jailed and all finances returned to Haiti. No government should harbor such sociopaths from justice.

Agreed. And shame on France for harbouring him. It's one thing if places such as North Korea or Zimbabwe grant refuge to dictators... but a a key member of the European Union? I have always been disgusted.
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mirrodie
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:44 pm

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 19):
I still do not think that the Arizona shooting is what they had in mind...

No one had in mind, no, yet the media fed hungry minds that Palin was the cause. That is my point. People used it to cast political blame. its wrong but minds are that easily wavered.



As of this morning, I read this imbecile may consider a return to politics! WTF?!
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luv2fly
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:50 pm

All the chickens are coming home to roost!

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2011/01/20/haiti-aristide-return.html


Aristide: 'I am ready' to return to Haiti


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2011/0...aristide-return.html#ixzz1BaihHJj4
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Aesma
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:37 pm

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 17):
c) Not for nothing.....he looked a LOT like Muhammed Ali(with Parkinson's, did anyone else notice that?) in his recent videos and photos, with a wide eye glare to boot. He looks like Mohammed Ali's twin, no joke.

Perhaps he has Alzheimers and Parkinson's and may truly not be all there.

Yes I did say that he looked ill.
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NIKV69
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:45 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 10):
If that's true then the Haitians are a joke.

Not the people, the government.

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 11):
not quite unlike what we are seeing here with Sarah Palin (some love her and some hate her)

Imagine how Palin would be recieved if she actually tortured and killed people like he did.

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 17):
Many movements in history start small and only build from there.

Yea his really took off didn't they?



Look Haiti had a great chance after the earthquake and had the money to rebuild. Something is amiss and this blast from the past are not helping matters and is only sinister. I can only hope there is an indvidual there that starts the real revolution and as much as I hate to say it that country needs a violent rebellion of the people to start to improve. The leaders are corrupt and not going to change unless forced out.
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Okie
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:09 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 14):
The scent of money is a powerful magnet for the likes of Duvalier. The corrupt are like flies on ------well, you know.


  
There is hundreds of millions of dollars to be appropriated.
Just look at the list of "known suspects" that seem to be flocking to Haiti.
Somehow Okie does not get the idea that they are all coming with the welfare of the Haitians in the forefront, I am seriously skeptical.

Okie
 
NIKV69
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:16 pm

Quoting okie (Reply 24):
There is hundreds of millions of dollars to be appropriated.
Just look at the list of "known suspects" that seem to be flocking to Haiti.
Somehow Okie does not get the idea that they are all coming with the welfare of the Haitians in the forefront, I am seriously skeptical.

Spot on. Someone needs to do something. That country could be so much further along and better off now.
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mirrodie
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:08 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
Not the people, the government.

Exactly, Nick. The people there are pawns, the gov't is corrupt.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
Imagine how Palin would be recieved if she actually tortured and killed people

Please.....as if he voice isn't torture enough??!!! You betcha.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
this blast from the past are not helping matters and is only sinister

I'll say it straight. Duvalier needs to be send back, or needs a sniper hit to the head. Aristide will absolutely get shot as well.

The mere fact that Duvalier is there right now and is not in jail only confirms my suspicions that there is more corrupt money exchanging hands under the table.

Quoting okie (Reply 24):
Somehow Okie does not get the idea that they are all coming with the welfare of the Haitians in the forefront, I am seriously skeptical.

Damn straight.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
Yea his really took off didn't they?

Wha????
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NIKV69
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:34 am

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 26):
Please.....as if he voice isn't torture enough??!!! You betcha.

Oh she is so sexy when she says that!

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 26):
I'll say it straight. Duvalier needs to be send back, or needs a sniper hit to the head. Aristide will absolutely get shot as well.

Good, at this point Haiti needs a hostile takover. That money is too valuable to them and the people in charge of it can not be trusted.

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 26):
The mere fact that Duvalier is there right now and is not in jail only confirms my suspicions that there is more corrupt money exchanging hands under the table.

Really my chin almost hit the floor when I heard he was on a flight back. Only negative intentions.
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Francoflier
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:59 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
Are the Haitians so forgetful?

The Haitians are , unfortunately, extremely bad at deciding who should lead their country. There are large groups of Haitians who implore the return of Aristide. Aristide was one of the worst leaders Haiti has ever had, up there with the Duvaliers...
He was extremely corrupt, he simply ransacked the country for every last Gourde it had to give, left it in a disastrous situation as absolutely no improvement ever came during his tenure. He used Haiti as an freeport for drug dealers and enriched himself on drug money. He abolished the military (since they usually are the ones who oust presidents in these knd of countries) and created his own militia which, while not as famous as the tontons macoutes, was equally as violent when dealing with his opponents. Etc, etc...

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 19):
but a a key member of the European Union? I have always been disgusted.

I am equally disgusted. He is far from being the only dictator with blood on his hands to be harboured and defended by a Western nation. The problem is that said nations have always had some sort of say in the political system of these countries, favoring certain persons and helping them reach powers for whatever reasons, mostly to help business relationship between the countries. These old ties are often the reason for obscure arrangements like political asylum and golden and peaceful retirements abroad for former dictators.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 25):
Someone needs to do something.

Not that easy. 'Someone, be it the US, France or others, have always been trying to help Haiti one way or another. It has never worked and often backfired (Duvaliers and Aristide, for example).
The problems is that Haitians are very 'confused' when it comes to deciding who is better fit to run their country. As I said, many still support and want the return of Aristide or even Baby doc. General lack of education doesn't help, it's a very easy population to manipulate. with smooth speeches. Of course, pretendants to the throne abound, and none of them is any less corrupt and interested than the other.
Nothing short of complete political tutelage would work, but then of course this would be seen as foreign manipulation by the population and widely rejected. Most Haitians are already very hostile against the UN peacekeeping force that has been present in Haiti from 2004, associating them with manipulative foreign invaders.

Haiti has entered a vicious circle in which poverty and lack of education makes it very dificult to create a stable and helpful government, which in turns creates more poverty and doesn't provide the stability needed to start a slow recovery.

To be fair the current Haitian so far wasn't a bad effort, relatively speaking, but between the natural disasters, the lack of support from the population and the former presidents and dictators interested in stirring the pot to get back the power they crave circling like vultures, the future still doesn't look any brighter...
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NIKV69
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:04 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 28):
Not that easy. 'Someone, be it the US, France or others, have always been trying to help Haiti one way or another. It has never worked and often backfired (Duvaliers and Aristide, for example).

I didn't mean from the outside. It's their country, they should take it back.
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Francoflier
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:32 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 29):
It's their country, they should take it back.

That's also not really a possibility.

Every last dictator and overbearing megalomaniatical looting president they've had in the last decades was a huge favorite of the people at first. Some haitians still demand the return of Aristide and even Baby Doc despite all they did.
A poor, uneducated population is very easy to manipulate. If Venezuela couldn't do it then Haiti doesn't stand a chance.

The local government is corrupt from top to bottom. Even a decent, honest and good-willed president would struggle to make any headway, assuming he didn't just succomb to corruption himself.
Ironically, Haiti was relatively better off economically under the Duvaliers, despite their own disastrous management of the country. The one advantage of a dictatorship is that it is a form of stable government, which is what Haiti has lacked for a long time.
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TransIsland
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:49 pm

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 20):
No one had in mind, no, yet the media fed hungry minds that Palin was the cause. That is my point. People used it to cast political blame. its wrong but minds are that easily wavered.



Nah, I still don't quite get your point, sorry. Not good at all this comparison business.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 29):
It's their country, they should take it back.



You mean the educated and philanthropic elite of the country??

Quoting francoflier (Reply 28):
Nothing short of complete political tutelage would work, but then of course this would be seen as foreign manipulation by the population and widely rejected. Most Haitians are already very hostile against the UN peacekeeping force that has been present in Haiti from 2004, associating them with manipulative foreign invaders.



Which has been pretty much the point of our Bahamian Minister of Foreign Affairs when the situation spiralled out of control in 2004. He was trying to put together a concerted Caricom effort to stabilise Haiti, hoping that Caricom would have more credibility amongst the Haitian population than the UN or US. It never came to fruition though, as Caribbean leaders are too damn focused on procedure and the notion of Haitian sovereignty. We never know if it would've worked (and I share the doubts that will probably be raised), because the US and UN eventually stepped in.

Bottom line: The idea of giving Baby Doc a second chance is ludicrous. Some pastor in the Haitian immigrant community in Nassau/Bahamas was supporting that idea publically this week. I never say this to immigrants, but... Please go back to where you came from, Mr. Pastor.

And: I don't believe that Haiti has what is needed to fix it. Haiti, like other failed states, needs to give up its sovereignty (or have it taken away) for a while, until such a point where a generation of qualified nation builders becomes available. Do I sound colonialist? Maybe, but if you look at the history of Haiti, it is no surprise that there weren't enough people available, who knew how to run a country democratically. To a degree, this is true for many former colonies, and I am not saying it's their fault. Heck, I think even for the Bahamas, independence came too early.
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rfields5421
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:25 pm

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 31):
but if you look at the history of Haiti, it is no surprise that there weren't enough people available, who knew how to run a country democratically.



Very true. All the best and brightest people of Haiti left the country long ago.

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 31):
To a degree, this is true for many former colonies, and I am not saying it's their fault. Heck, I think even for the Bahamas, independence came too early.



I believe this is true of many nations to a certain extent. If you look at the early history of the United States, you will see that our founding fathers were not prepared to run an independent nation. Their first attempt at a government failed miserably. Even their next attempt took close to a generation to stabilize into something effective.

I've looked at this issue in many parts of the world, and I believe it takes at least two generations before a people began to understand how to work under a system of one man / one vote and democratic types of government.

One of the biggest problems is that people who have not grown up under a two party (or more) system do not understand that freedom and the right to vote mean that the other party will win elections frequently. People new to the democratic process believe that their side will win every vote, and if they do not - it is fraud.

No matter how long people live in a 'free' nation under dictators, they never learn compromise, sharing power, or even basic honesty in government.

Most of the people living in Haiti are so poor, so without resources that they will grasp at and support anyone who seems to be able to give them a little stability, a steady source of food and a little hope. No matter how bad that person's historical record.
 
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RE: Baby Doc JC Duvalier Back In Haiti

Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:19 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 30):
Every last dictator and overbearing megalomaniatical looting president they've had in the last decades was a huge favorite of the people at first. Some haitians still demand the return of Aristide and even Baby Doc despite all they did.
A poor, uneducated population is very easy to manipulate. If Venezuela couldn't do it then Haiti doesn't stand a chance.

That paint a very frim picture then. If the people don't revolt what you are seeing now is what you are going to have.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!

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