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1337Delta764
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Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:20 pm

I was wondering, is there any particular reason why many people like to compare Windows Vista to Windows ME? Really, it isn't a fair comparison since ME was based on the outdated DOS-based Windows 9x platform, and was never intended to be a major release unlike Vista.

Really, Vista is more comparable to 2000 than ME. 2000 had similar driver issues when it was first released. However, since there wasn't a consumer version of Windows 2000, the media never felt it was worthwile to bash it like Vista. There actually was originally supposed to be a consumer version of Windows 2000 (codenamed Neptune), which was eventually scrapped in favor of the less ambitious Windows ME, which was only intended as a stopgap release until the release of XP. Vista, on the other hand, was designed to revolutionize the Windows OS, which was the same intention with Windows 2000.
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hka098
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:50 pm

Wow. I don't think Vista is as bad as ME, but it is far from MSFT's best OS. Vista needs an IT department to nurture and babysit it's every need. Vista in consumer hands has been a disaster.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:54 pm

ME was the devil come back to life! Vista was bad but not even close. Hell I got XP pro on one machine and 7 the other.
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casinterest
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:54 pm

Me,200 and VISTA were all worthless for home users. Even windows 7 makes administration by a home user a PITA.

Apple is the way to go to avoid a lot of the BS and headaches that come with Windows upgrades, and general operations.
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1337Delta764
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:56 pm

Basically, Windows 7 is a refined version of Vista, just as Windows XP is a refined version of 2000. Windows ME was part of a completely different family from XP (Windows 9x, not NT).
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hka098
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:00 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 3):
Apple is the way to go to avoid a lot of the BS and headaches that come with Windows upgrades, and general operations.

Very true, but I think this is a Windows thread.

I have had the worst experiences with Windows XP, over all. 2000 was a dream to support and use, much more solid that XP, IMHO.
 
FlyKev
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:01 pm

I must be the only person here mad enough to have found Windows Vista quite satisfactory. Sure; I am not going to go around singing praises about its speed, stability or go installing it on any other computer and granted after the long wait from XP, I am surprised something better was not produced - but it certainly wasn't the worst, and not in any way shape or form as bad as the hell that was Windows ME.

That OS needed a full reboot every hour and a full reinstall every 6 months if you were lucky. Windows 7 certainly knocks the socks off anything Microsoft has ever produced for the Windows family; and it made me start loving my laptop again after I got my iMac (which to be honest, OSX is starting to annoy me).

Kev.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:08 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
ME was the devil come back to life! Vista was bad but not even close.

I wouldn't even call Vista bad, just not that much better than XP. Either way, Vista was usable. ME was crash after crash after crash.

Quoting FlyKev (Reply 6):
Windows 7 certainly knocks the socks off anything Microsoft has ever produced for the Windows family; and it made me start loving my laptop again after I got my iMac (which to be honest, OSX is starting to annoy me).

I agree with this

I've been a Mac user for about 8 years and find myself preferring to work on Win7 more and more. I use to justify the Mac "premium" because OS X was so much smoother than XP, but IMHO, that advantage is practically gone.  Wow!
 
hka098
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:09 pm

We had Vista in our classrooms for two years and I have had Vista in a certain lab for almost four years, with no major issues. IE7 caused us more headaches with our LoB apps, but that is not Vista's fault.
 
iflykpdx
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:38 pm

They were comparable in the sense that ME did away with access to "Real DOS" mode, which subsequently created incompatibility between ME and lots of older windows programs that worked fine as of Windows 98. Vista, in the same sort of way came out with a new driver model, which meant lots of hardware that worked fine with Windows XP and below had problems or outright didn't work anymore. Both issues were subsequently resolved over time, but the initial problems overshadowed their later overall improvements (ME really wasn't around long enough before XP came out anyway). There were other issues each OS had that aren't as comparable.

That said, I used both OS's and never found them to be as terrible as they were made out to be. I will say both XP and 7 were more user friendly than their immediate predecessors.
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MD-90
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:10 pm

Quoting FlyKev (Reply 6):
I must be the only person here mad enough to have found Windows Vista quite satisfactory.

On my personal desktop I like Vista. I got it because at the time (July 2008) I wanted a 64-bit OS and Vista promised to be better supported in the future than 64-bit XP. I didn't really have any problems with drivers although my HP printer lost some of its functionality (but that was HP's fault for not updating the drivers with all the options, not Vista's fault).

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 7):
I wouldn't even call Vista bad, just not that much better than XP. Either way, Vista was usable. ME was crash after crash after crash.

I like the option for extra-large icons, useful sometimes in picture folders. I don't think XP had those. Other than that...not much advantage, except for being 64-bit.

I have an upgrade to 7 Professional downloaded and saved on my computer but I haven't used it yet. Haven't really felt the need to, but since I got a student discount for it it was almost free.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:35 pm

In my memory I still view ME has horrible but I can't really remember why. I used 2000 and XP for ten years so I tend to forget how things were before. I remember that with 95, 98 and ME it was customary to reinstall the OS often, and BSODs were business as usual, but what made ME really worse ?

As for Vista, I never used it so I can't say, stuck to XP until I really wanted DX10 and more RAM, and by that time 7 was out, so now I have a DX11 video card and 12GB of RAM on 7 x64. I had to tweak it quite a bit to make it as I like but after that it's good.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:59 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
Basically, Windows 7 is a refined version of Vista, just as Windows XP is a refined version of 2000. Windows ME was part of a completely different family from XP (Windows 9x, not NT).

I changed from Windows Vista and Office 2007 to a new PC with Windows 7 and Office 2010, and in my opinion it was a mistake. The new setup is far more unstable, and I crash pretty frequently. Vista was much more stable. I expect 7 will get better once they get SP1 out, but in the meantime, as a Windows user since version 2.11, I am extremely disappointed, especially after all the hype.
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TheSonntag
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:09 pm

ME was the worst system ever. I now have Vista and it is slow as hell. A good 2nd lemon, but not as bad as ME.

Still the comparision is fair.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:22 pm

I've never had issues with Vista, but I like Win7 better.

Vista had to be a major revision of the OS to keep up with the development of hardware and security. Win 7 is Vista fine tuned after a couple years of extensive beta testing to find what needed to be fixed.

Anyone up on the technology and the security issues with XP knew Vista had to make a major change, though many people still try to defeat the very safeguards that Vista addressed.

Win2000 was a great success, but it was a problem for many people who fall behind technology. The move away from DOS to NT required a major mental shift by the end user. A lot of people were too set in their ways to transition easily.

XP was just like Win 7 - an update after extensive testing.

None compare to ME in my opinion. ME tried to do things from the DOS based Win9x platform that neither the hardware nor the programming could handle. MS was up against the limits of DOS capability with Win98. ME was just too much.

Now, I should qualify my remarks. I worked in corporate IT as we moved from Win95 and some NT4 to Win2000, WinXP and Vista. But I've also worked with Mac's in that enviornment, and even a few old OS2 legacy systems. I was one of many people who left soon before Win7 was beta in the 2008 nationwide job cuts.

The company I worked with had Enterprise level MS support contracts, and part of my team occasionally went to Redmond to see new OS, Office, Exchange and Server developments. Including full-time MS on site account managers.

I've gone from having 45 Ghost images of Win95 builds to completely scripted builds of new computers (and rebuilds if necessary) with Vista OS, all basic apps, departmentally needed apps and transfer of user data from the old computer to a new one.

What took 6 to 8 hours to build a new computer and transfer user data in 1996 we reduced to less than 2 hours in 2008.

But every time MS made major technological leaps with an OS - folks want to stay behind the capabilities and future - and the new OS gets branded "A failure"
 
swissy
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:33 pm

That is a good question  and I do not know why... have worked for MS in the early 90's back home... I had more issues with win95... did not have 98, agree ME was a challenge , however no issues from 2000 up to win7 ... we have 3 stations at home and they run on xp, vista and win7... like vista the most, just get my head around win7...

We had hardly any issues other than issues created by users 

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1337Delta764
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:53 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 13):
Still the comparision is fair.

No, it isn't. ME crashed randomly even when not in use. This was never a problem for Vista. Like 2000, Vista's driver model was completely rewritten; ME's driver model was basically the same as Windows 98.

I can understand why people say that the best versions of Windows were 98, XP, and 7, however, it makes absolutely no sense to compare Vista to ME since Microsoft had two completely different intentions for both. Microsoft's never intended ME to have a long shelf life; it was only a stopgap between 98 and XP. Vista, on the other hand, was intended to be Microsoft's "official" new OS, and had it hadn't recieved such negative press by the media, Windows 7 wouldn't have been released as quickly and would have been another complete overhaul of the codebase.
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NIKV69
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:05 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 16):
No, it isn't. ME crashed randomly even when not in use. This was never a problem for Vista. Like 2000, Vista's driver model was completely rewritten; ME's driver model was basically the same as Windows 98.

Yep. I had a notebook with ME and it crashed left and right so bad I had to toss it. It was simply the worst comp experience I have ever had.
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Aesma
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:16 am

Now that I think of it, Win95 wasn't that great, at first. My parents bought the first computer for the family in 95 (we already had a donated 286), a nice Pentium 100 with the brand new Win95 vanilla, it wasn't very stable. And no windows update (nor internet for that matter) to have the bug fixed !
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JakeOrion
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:09 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 13):
ME was the worst system ever. I now have Vista and it is slow as hell. A good 2nd lemon, but not as bad as ME.

Still the comparision is fair.

Uhhhh no, not even close. I spent 15 minutes testing out the ME machine, and just by simple commands such as opening Notepad caused the system to crash. Seven crashes in 15 minutes was a STRONG indicator of not to buy this OS.

Vista, on the other hand, was stable, but was a huge resource hog, contributing to it being slow. Poorly written coding did not help the OS make it any speedier either.
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StarAC17
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:11 am

I have run Vista pretty much since it came out and I have to say its is far superior to XP as an OS. On my old system which was built in 2005 Vista ran better than XP when it came out, also Vista maintains your computer better than XP. So unless you get a virus the OS will last years without needing a reinstall.

I run the 64 bit now because I needed to replace my Motherboard and because of that I added a new processor and HDD and it runs great. I was too cheap to buy an ISO version of 7, but I did have to download the ISO for Vista 64bit ans use my license key.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
Basically, Windows 7 is a refined version of Vista, just as Windows XP is a refined version of 2000. Windows ME was part of a completely different family from XP (Windows 9x, not NT).

7 IIRC is just a leaner Vista that uses far less resources and better driver support. Actually I prefer things like the quick launch in Vista from what I have seen but I haven't really played around with 7 all that much though and I'm sure there is a classic option.

ME had a lot of features that XP and onward have used such as System Restore and better network support than what 98 offered. It was basically 98 with another service pack that backfired horribly.

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 19):
Vista, on the other hand, was stable, but was a huge resource hog, contributing to it being slow. Poorly written coding did not help the OS make it any speedier either.

The SP's really made a difference with how Vista runs now, the biggest issue was that MS underestimated how much RAM was needed to run it to the consumer. (It needs 2GB to do anything, MS recommended 1GB)
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richm
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:28 am

It might just be down to public perception. Neither of them were widely regarded as being "great operating systems" on the whole compared to other Windows operating systems. They were both widely criticized for various reasons. It may not be based on any similarities or flaws between the two. Though, it would be interesting to read the article(s) that you're referring to.
 
JJJ
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:59 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 3):
Apple is the way to go to avoid a lot of the BS and headaches that come with Windows upgrades, and general operations.

And they make you pay through the nose for the privilege.

Sorry, I'm not buying it.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:03 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 20):
ME had a lot of features that XP and onward have used such as System Restore and better network support than what 98 offered. It was basically 98 with another service pack that backfired horribly.

Yes, but ME was still based on the old Windows 9x DOS platform, while XP was based on the NT platform like 2000.

Quoting richm (Reply 21):
It might just be down to public perception. Neither of them were widely regarded as being "great operating systems" on the whole compared to other Windows operating systems. They were both widely criticized for various reasons. It may not be based on any similarities or flaws between the two. Though, it would be interesting to read the article(s) that you're referring to.

Well, the likely reason why Windows 2000 wasn't criticized much was because it wasn't marketed to consumers, only to businesses. 2000's driver model was very different from NT 4.0, just as Vista uses a different driver model from XP. XP helped fix some of those compatibility issues, just as 7 did for Vista.

In truth, XP was heavily crticized when it was first released to the consumer market, as it was a huge leap from 98/ME to XP due to the complete change in architecture (DOS for 98/ME, NT for XP). However, as time went by consumers simply got more used to it. Vista had a much shorter shelf life, and Apple's anti-Vista propaganda didn't help either.

Also, if you ever checked the version numbering of the different versions of Windows, you can see that XP and 7 (NT versions 5.1 and 6.1, respectively) were improved versions of 2000 and Vista (NT versions 5.0 and 6.0, respectively).
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RobertNL070
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:45 pm

In Dutch, Windows ME attracted the dubious nickname Meer Ellende = More Misery. And indeed, nothing can compare to the misery of ME.

As others have already said, Windows Vista is nothing special. It may look prettier than XP, but it is really no better.
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elbandgeek
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:41 pm

Vista tried to cram too much into one release because they kept pushing it back and at least once they had to scrap development and start all over. When it was released it required hardware that most people didn't have but they tried and upgrade anyway. On top of that, hardware makers screwed the pooch by not having proper drivers available at launch and intel even pressured microsoft to lower the minimum specs so they could continue to sell bottom end cpus that had no business running the OS and people who bought the cheapest computer possible ended up with paperweights. They really learned their lesson with 7, and will most definitely be continuing widespread public beta testing in the future to make sure more issues get fixed before release.

ME on the other hand was just bad. It was obsolete when it got released. DOS-based Windows just couldn't keep up at that point (in the same way that forced apple to ditch classic mac os and move to the unix-based osx) and if they couldn't get a consumer edition of 2000 out the door they would have been better off skipping it until XP.
 
Derico
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:03 am

I went from Win95 as a kid, to XP as a teen, to 7 as a young adult. The last two being my decision to skip ME and Vista.

Smart guy.
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rfields5421
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:36 am

Quoting elbandgeek (Reply 25):
it required hardware that most people didn't have but they tried and upgrade anyway.

I think MS learned a lesson from Vista.

The advertising for Win7 I saw did not focus as much on upgrading your computer as Vista did.

Personally, fortunately, I learned a long time ago, never upgrade - buy new hardware if you want a new OS.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:54 pm

Here's the big thing that hurt Windows Vista: it came out a time when the hardware that could really take advantage of what Vista could do was not widely available. As such, it worked poorly on most of the computers available at the time. It wasn't until Vista Service Pack 1 and machines that sported dual-core CPU's and at least 3 GB of RAM--both widely available by early spring 2008--that Vista finally became a viable OS.

Windows 7, on the other hand, arrived in the fall of 2009, at a time when multi-core CPU's and systems with at least 4 GB of RAM was widely available. As such, there were very few complaints about performance speed right from the start.

[Edited 2011-01-23 05:54:36]
 
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Revelation
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:53 pm

Quoting Derico (Reply 26):
I went from Win95 as a kid, to XP as a teen, to 7 as a young adult. The last two being my decision to skip ME and Vista.

I just follow what my company IT department does. They have a lot more experience in figuring out what OSes to avoid. And their migration path was Win98 -> (no ME) -> (no NT 4) -> Win2k -> WinXp -> (no Vista) -> Win7. And each transaction happened at least a year after the OS came out, so that the apps had all been tested and required updates / service packs were available.

But most of my heavy lifting is done on Linux.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 27):
Personally, fortunately, I learned a long time ago, never upgrade - buy new hardware if you want a new OS.

Yep, that's good advice for the Windows space.

For Linux, I really haven't had any problems taking updates in real time. Currently using Fedora Core 14 on the same hardware I bought in 2005 and am quite happy with it.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
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Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:54 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 29):
I just follow what my company IT department does. They have a lot more experience in figuring out what OSes to avoid. And their migration path was Win98 -> (no ME) -> (no NT 4) -> Win2k -> WinXp -> (no Vista) -> Win7. And each transaction happened at least a year after the OS came out, so that the apps had all been tested and required updates / service packs were available.

Well, there is no way a corporate environment would use Windows ME, since it was designed to be a consumer OS unlike Win2K. XP and later versions though were released in both consumer and professional versions.
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captaink
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:47 pm

Vista was bad for people with slow machines. Try running W7 on the same machines and won´t notice any huge difference. I have a Vista on a machine and it is running quite fine. Realy..

ME was an awfull OS, becuase well one of it´s terrible quirks was the fact that it was unstable and crashed frequently.
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:10 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 28):
Here's the big thing that hurt Windows Vista: it came out a time when the hardware that could really take advantage of what Vista could do was not widely available. As such, it worked poorly on most of the computers available at the time. It wasn't until Vista Service Pack 1 and machines that sported dual-core CPU's and at least 3 GB of RAM--both widely available by early spring 2008--that Vista finally became a viable OS.

Sound a lot like that little flying game Microsoft makes.   except, hardware catching up never helped. Heh.

Anyway, I love windows 7. I got it last year with a brand new system and it has been flawless. Jumped from XP to 7 so I can't comment on Vista.

[Edited 2011-01-23 20:12:12]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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RE: Why Is Windows Vista Compared To Windows ME?

Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:15 pm

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 32):
Jumped from XP to 7 so I can't comment on Vista.

Most of us did jump from XP to 7, which is making a big (but unspoken) comment on how we felt about Vista!  
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!

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