Ken777
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Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:10 am

Quote:
House Republicans suffered an embarrassing setback Tuesday when they fell seven votes short of extending provisions of the Patriot Act, a vote that served as the first small uprising of the party's tea-party bloc.

The bill to reauthorize key parts of the counter-terrorism surveillance law, which expire at the end of the month, required a super-majority to pass under special rules reserved for non-controversial measures.

. . .

The vote was the latest signal, though, that on certain matters House leaders could face a sizable resistance to compromise from within their own ranks, both from the 87 GOP freshmen and from conservative veterans who have been emboldened by the newcomers.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn.../AR2011020806345.html?hpid=topnews

It is embarrassing for the Republican Leadership for the failure, but more interesting is going to be the freshman class and the power they now know they have. I don't see them joining the Democrats in a lot of areas, but it will be really interesting to see if there is a split on the Right and that might push some Conservatives closer to the middle - and others into the Tea Party camp.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:35 pm

The measure had plenty of votes to pass during the normal process, which it will in a couple weeks.

The House leadership just decided to push this through on a fast track which requires a 2/3 majority vote. They came up 8 votes short.

I agree they should have been smarter about counting their votes before they brought up the bill - because as you said the Tea Party folks have been against the type of procedures the Patriot Act legalizes.

There is no doubt this extension will be passed. Even President Obama is pushing for passage, so many Democrats will vote when the bill comes up for the real approval vote.
 
windy95
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RE: Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:39 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
It is embarrassing for the Republican Leadership for the failure

You jumped the gun on this one..Nothing embarrassing about losing the 2/3 majority. but nice try. What you should be bitching about is the fact that just like Bush, Obama will sign this again and there is even a group of Dems looking to make this permanent.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:48 pm

Why are the proponents of the "Patriot Act" the furthest thing from partiots this country has ever seen ? I wish it hand that abusrdity known as the Department of Homeland Security (It would be laughable if the ramifications were not so severe) would just go away.   
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:51 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 1):
Even President Obama is pushing for passage
Quoting windy95 (Reply 2):
the fact that just like Bush, Obama will sign this again and there is even a group of Dems looking to make this permanent.



Now that Obama is president and is "in the know" he may have realized how important this stuff is. With Obama being a less than one term senator I doubt he really knew a lot of details about things like the PATRIOT act and Gitmo before he got into office. If a lefty like Obama is pushing for renewal of the PATRIOT act it must doing what it was designed to do and Obama likes the results.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
windy95
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RE: Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:37 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
Now that Obama is president and is "in the know" he may have realized how important this stuff is. With Obama being a less than one term senator I doubt he really knew a lot of details about things like the PATRIOT act and Gitmo before he got into office. If a lefty like Obama is pushing for renewal of the PATRIOT act it must doing what it was designed to do and Obama likes the results.

Do you not find it odd that Bush was beten over the head with this for years but with Obama the mainstream media is quiet. Double standard or did the media also finally realize it is working? Maybe an apology from them to Bush is in the future?
 
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mbmbos
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RE: Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:23 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
Now that Obama is president and is "in the know" he may have realized how important this stuff is.

I don't subscribe to this particular flavor of paternalism whether it is a Democrat or a Republican in power. There is no credible reason for me to cede basic civil liberties because I have to trust the big cheese - that the president "knows" something.

There has been untold - and documented - abuses of Patriot Act powers. And there's no good reason for having such a law enacted. Prior to the Patriot Act members of law enforcement were able to run to a judge in the middle of the night and get a warrant signed if need be. There's never been any incident of terrorism having gone forward because law enforcement couldn't get a warrant when the situation demanded it.

And there's no need for government intelligence to be reading my emails, monitoring my phone calls without a very good reason and without me knowing.

We have given over a fundamental right to the government and they've already proven to misuse it.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
rfields5421
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RE: Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:29 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 5):
Do you not find it odd that Bush was beten over the head with this for years but with Obama the mainstream media is quiet.

No - the real media gave up complaining about 2006.

Only fake media like Fox have made a big deal of it since.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:32 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 2):
You jumped the gun on this one..Nothing embarrassing about losing the 2/3 majority

I disagree. The Speaker and House leadership brought this bill up for the fast track 2/3 vote to show the media how 'efficiently' they could move legislation through compared to the past two years.

The whole vote was a publicity stunt to show the Republicans can pass bills quickly with a 2/3 majority.

The publicity stunt backfired.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:35 pm

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 6):
There is no credible reason for me to cede basic civil liberties because I have to trust the big cheese

What are these civil liberties YOU have lost?

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 7):
No - the real media gave up complaining about 2006

I didn't know we had any real media left....
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
Ken777
Topic Author
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RE: Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:39 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 2):
You jumped the gun on this one..Nothing embarrassing about losing the 2/3 majority.

THe embarrassing part is that the House Leadership got caught not knowing their numbers on an important vote. Amateur Hour for the Leadership.
 
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mbmbos
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RE: Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:40 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 9):
What are these civil liberties YOU have lost?

Are you kidding me?

How about unlawful search and seizure for one?
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
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falstaff
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RE: Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:42 pm

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 11):
How about unlawful search and seizure for one

you have been unlawfully searched and had your property siezed?
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
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mbmbos
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RE: Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:08 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 12):
you have been unlawfully searched and had your property siezed?

Absolutely. If email and phone calls have been breached, yes.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
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falstaff
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RE: Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:19 pm

If a phone call was recorded how exactly were you searched? If no property was siezed how can you say anything about siezure?
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
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mbmbos
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RE: Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:26 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 14):
If a phone call was recorded how exactly were you searched? If no property was siezed how can you say anything about siezure?

Sorry, not playing this game. The name of this game is called being willfully obtuse.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
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falstaff
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RE: Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:30 pm

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 15):
Sorry, not playing this game. The name of this game is called being willfully obtuse.

I call it taking the words for what they actualy mean, not bending things around to fit a belief.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
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RE: Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:29 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 16):
I call it taking the words for what they actualy mean, not bending things around to fit a belief.

I call it invasion of privacy. Here, let me demonstrate...

"Hey there Falstaff. Uncle Sam here. Boy, you sure seem to like guns a lot and you live in the Detroit area. We're concerned you're a terrorist, especially since you work around teens. We know you've recently communicated with several of these people. We're gonna monitor their communications as well...

Aaron Ames
Aaron Josef Walker
Alex Knoll
Allen Kell
Amanda Goff McGill
Andrea Thorn
Angela Siggia
Angie Inman
Betsy Tinsley
Brad Henderson
Brandon Landes
Bret Woodley
Brian Kujawa
Caitlin Wild Kreienkamp
Chad Clements
Chad May
Charles Crites
Cher Silvius Hewitt
Chris B. Crews
Chris Johnson
Chrissy Depowski
Cody Costello
Cynthia Hardin Heisner
Dan Fisher
Daniel Leblanc
David Jobling
Dean Massalsky
Dillion Howard
Dustin Korzaan
Dylan Galea
Emma Hornby
Eric Towe
Gerald Garthoeffner
Gina Bianchi Lustig
Heidi Lencz
Jacob Bourdeau
Jacqueline Quinn Martinez
Jake Wise
Janey Stark
Jay Siefert
Jb Wild
Jeff Tuszynski
Jessica Howton
Joan Olkowski
Joe Covington
Joel Gandt
Joel Rosson
Joe McDonald
Joey J Fais
John Kottemann
John Wild
Jonathon Jones
Josh Patrick
Josh Siebert
Justen McCallister
Kelly Miller
Kevin Burton
Kevin Kious
Kirsten Elsworth
Kyle Guidry
Larry Jackson
Larry Zorns
Laurie Knoll
Lisa Riddle Bowen
Liz Swank
Mark Caldwell
Marty Depowski
Matthew Leblanc
Matt Hopersberger
Matt Schmidt
Melinda Daniels Korzaan
Melissa McHenry Cabauatan
Michael Arnold
Michael Davis
Michel Dejulian
Michelle Lewandowski
Mike Ramirez
Milena Coloccini
M Richard Frye
Nichole Rennie Hesselgrave
Nicole Zielonka
Patty Clem Kious
Pete Brusyo
Richard Artzberger
Richard Lee
Rob Douglas
Rob Lindsay
Ronny Morris
Ryan Paulson
Sally Monaco
Sarah Reed
Sara Shay
Scott Wilson
Shannon Mesic
Shaun O'Sullivan
Stacey Kaleniecki Nordini
Stefanie Gavin
Stefanie Rühlemann
Stefan Löwe
Stephanie Millender
Steven J. Kelly
Steven Livernois
Steve Taylor
Teddi Depowski
Ted Richardson
Tim Humphries
Tim LaCombe
TM Kafka
Tom Koehler
Tom Petraglia
Toni Scherer
Wade P. Streeter
Wesley Triplette
Wesley Winterholler
Westley C. Brooks
Whitney Cassie


No problem, right? Your civil liberties haven't been violated at all.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Patriot Act Extension Fails In The House

Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:01 am

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 6):

We have given over a fundamental right to the government and they've already proven to misuse it.

And the bit that gets me is that many of the most vocal proponents are those who oppose the ACA because it somehow violates their rights and is unconstitutional.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan

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