Charlienoble
Posts: 168
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Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:48 pm

I am just amazed by the number of threads I have read lately where the consensus seems to be:

- Airports in the US are awful
- Airline service in the US is terrible
- Airplanes being flown by airlines in the US are shabby
- The T.S.A. are at best incompetent, and at worst deliberately malicious
- Boeing airplanes aren't as good as their Airbus equivalents (except for the 77W of course)
- American passengers are inconsiderate jackasses.

For all I know, much of this may be true. Maybe all of it. It is what it is.

I came to A.net in search of fellow airplane fans but it seems I've found some kind of Portal for international "bitch sessions" about US aviation.

I wonder at what point people should just not fly here if it is so far beneath their standards. Constantly crying on A.net about it is pointless.

Am I missing something here?
"When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True Story."- Barney Stinson
 
U2380
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:52 pm

Maybe try and look at it from the other point of view as well.

Certainly there are many Anti-(insert nationality) views on a.net but they are not all just bashing the US.

Go to any A380 thread to see the point in question.

[Edited 2011-02-15 09:06:59]
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:56 pm

Quoting CharlieNoble (Thread starter):
Am I missing something here?



- Airports in the US are awful
US airports are heavily congested, and delays frequent at quite a few of them.

- Airline service in the US is terrible
US airlines have cut service levels right back, and are much lower than what is found in Europe, and miles behind
Asia/Middle East carriers, especially when it comes to premium cabins. Although I havent actually flown a US airline, this seems to be the general consensus.

- Airplanes being flown by airlines in the US are shabby
US airlines still operate a lot of MD's and DC-9s, many of which are getting on a bit. Given the constant cuts, it wouldnt surprise me to find the interiors to be lacking.

- The T.S.A. are at best incompetent, and at worst deliberately malicious
This tends to be americans complaining about this.

- Boeing airplanes aren't as good as their Airbus equivalents (except for the 77W of course)
I'm sure you will find just as many posts stating the opposite...

- American passengers are inconsiderate jackasses.
No denying that  
 
ALTF4
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:59 pm

Well, some people complain that we treat some Argentinian members and their [insert admirable adjective here] homeland as the scum of the earth.

Liberals on here claim they are the minority and constantly harassed.

Conservatives claim they are the minority and constantly harassed.

Gays claim to be belittled on A.net.

People cite xenophobia and racism constantly for every little thing that they don't take a fancy to.




In short, the grass is greener on the other side, no matter what. If you don't like it here, nobody is forcing you to stay. If you enjoy it here but just don't like the crap, stay out of non-av (and unfortunately, more and more so civ-av) or camp out in tech/ops or av-hobby.
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
 
Stabilator
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:10 pm

There are certainly people on this site that 'strongly' dislike Americans. I won't reveal who I think they are. I try to take every anti-American post with a grain of salt, just like I'm sure Airbus fanboys take anti-A380 posts with a grain of salt.
So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
 
Superfly
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:14 pm

Quoting CharlieNoble (Thread starter):

These are coming from western Europeans that must be very ignorant and haven't traveled much or simply hang out with like-minded Europeans when they do travel. I haven't seen this attitude from Asians and Latin Americans.
As much as I've traveled, the worst are the new-moneyed Russians and Middle-Easterners. I've seen entire families with children bully and harass restaurant and hotel staff, cut in line and do things that are just downright rude. I've never seen Americans act like this.
There is a lot of US envy from a handful of western Europeans and I see and hear it when I stumble upon their enclaves here in Asia. These folks sit around in pow-wows bashing the US as if it's a sport. They have to be extremely biter to spend their vacation time talking politics and bashing another country.
I thought electing Obama was to make the rest of the world love us again but instead they rather gripe about Sarah Palin who doesn't hold an elected office.
I've found the smelly backpackers and academic know-it-all NGO volunteer types to be the worse.
The best thing to do is just ignore them. It's more of a personal complex issue on their part.

Finally, the A380 rocks!  bigthumbsup 
One of the best planes ever made and kudos to Airbus for designing a new 4-engine jumbo!  Cool
I love the A340 and will take it over a 777 any day!
I just love 4-engine aircraft regardless of who makes them.
747
A380
A340
IL-96
IL-86
707
DC-8
IL-62

[Edited 2011-02-15 09:18:53]
Bring back the Concorde
 
deltaownsall
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:28 pm

Quoting CharlieNoble (Thread starter):

Can't really disagree with any of the civ-av points up there, other than #5   I can tell you, however, that if you don't want to see wild assumptions about Americans being passed off as widely accepted fact, stay out of non-av. It can be pretty frustrating to see how many posters' opinions/knowledge of Americans seem to be informed almost exclusively by Family Guy or South Park. Perhaps it's some sort of divine retribution for those Americans who harbor ignorant stereotypes about the rest of the world, but that brings the concept of stereotyping to a whole new level of irony.

This, of course, is only the American experience. Maybe nationals of a few other countries find similar biases here. It does seem that, depending on the flag next to your name, there is often a stock list of ignorant opinions that you can get away with, and informed opinions that will be instantly cast aside. It's the internet, after all.    Despite all of this, there is still a decent amount of informed and reasoned debate that takes place here if you are ready to sift through the nonsense, and the aggregate is still largely better than what you will find elsewhere.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:33 pm

Quoting CharlieNoble (Thread starter):

I came to A.net in search of fellow airplane fans but it seems I've found some kind of Portal for international "bitch sessions" about US aviation.

Go anywhere in which people are fans/obsessive about a any particular subject, and you're going to find them very opinionated about said subject. Doesn't matter what the subject is.

Quoting CharlieNoble (Thread starter):
- Airports in the US are awful
- Airline service in the US is terrible
- Airplanes being flown by airlines in the US are shabby
- The T.S.A. are at best incompetent, and at worst deliberately malicious
...
- American passengers are inconsiderate jackasses.

I've heard these four complaints from plenty of Americans. I can understand it, although I don't really let it all bother me. It's all still worth it to be able to fly.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
ozglobal
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:36 pm

Quoting CharlieNoble (Thread starter):
Am I missing something here?

Yes. You are only focusing on observations or more negative opinions about the US. Do some searches on what Brits and some Americans write about the French if you don't won't to feel so singled out.

My suggestion is try an experiment where you adopt another prominant nationality and search for it as a keyword on a.net:

Suggetions: France, French, Aussies, Australia, Brits, UK, German tourists, Russian tourists, etc .... It might be a bit of an eye opener if you look for long enough...

[Edited 2011-02-15 09:36:56]
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
mham001
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:47 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
There is a lot of US envy from a handful of western Europeans and I see and hear it when I stumble upon their enclaves here in Asia. These folks sit around in pow-wows bashing the US as if it's a sport. They have to be extremely biter to spend their vacation time talking politics and bashing another country.

I've run into that too. And never, ever mistake a Canadian for American.

Reminds me of a story where the only negativity an American had on a trip to Iran was from some Euros who let loose with a verbal attack with no provocation.

Then there is this forum where an Aussie who has never been here is constantly starting US bashing threads from things he reads in the Daily Mail. I've been tempted to start returning the favor.
 
deltaownsall
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:01 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
These are coming from western Europeans that must be very ignorant and haven't traveled much or simply hang out with like-minded Europeans when they do travel. I haven't seen this attitude from Asians and Latin Americans.
As much as I've traveled, the worst are the new-moneyed Russians and Middle-Easterners. I've seen entire families with children bully and harass restaurant and hotel staff, cut in line and do things that are just downright rude. I've never seen Americans act like this.
There is a lot of US envy from a handful of western Europeans and I see and hear it when I stumble upon their enclaves here in Asia. These folks sit around in pow-wows bashing the US as if it's a sport. They have to be extremely biter to spend their vacation time talking politics and bashing another country.
I thought electing Obama was to make the rest of the world love us again but instead they rather gripe about Sarah Palin who doesn't hold an elected office.

Wow, so much truth here, it's mind-boggling. Well done. Western Europe's Palin-obsessed contingent is especially entertaining, if not extremely transparent.
 
Charlienoble
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:20 pm

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 3):
If you don't like it here, nobody is forcing you to stay.

I wasn't threatening to leave, just looking for a second/third/fourth opinion on my observation.

Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies.
"When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True Story."- Barney Stinson
 
Stabilator
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:29 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 9):

Then there is this forum where an Aussie who has never been here is constantly starting US bashing threads from things he reads in the Daily Mail

Very true!   

Also had troubles up here in GFK with our new Saudi students going through the helicopter program. They think they are the only ones in the traffic pattern. The group of them here seem very self-entitled (dawns the flame suit).

All in all the Palin-obsessed foreigners probably know very little about America, ergo I can't take their comments seriously.
So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:33 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 9):
Then there is this forum where an Aussie who has never been here is constantly starting US bashing threads from things he reads in the Daily Mail. I've been tempted to start returning the favor.

Please do. I've also taken notice.

--
For me, bottom line is this has been ongoing for years now on Anet. I tend to be very picky on what I read and respond to.

It's not just on Anet, but when I travel abroad I often times get stereotyped because I am an American. My two cents to the world: not everyone in the US is involved in politics. In fact some of us detest politics (me). The most common thing someone says to me while I travel is something regarding the government. I politely say I don't discuss politics and move on. Some have even become combative with me-I always take the high road.

I remember even some trashy Canadian women in Cancun was trashing the US to my face-how spoiled we are, how dirty our cites are etc. I just put my head phones on and said cheers to her. I love Canadians and I know she doesn't speak for all.

My point: there are some sorry ass people out there. Many on this board. Ignore the stuff you can and move on. I've seen people complain about similar things and nothing has changed in years.
Go big or go home
 
Charlienoble
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:44 pm

Quoting aa61hvy (Reply 14):
My point: there are some sorry ass people out there. Many on this board. Ignore the stuff you can and move on. I've seen people complain about similar things and nothing has changed in years.

Hard to do, but I read you loud and clear.

Trash talk says a lot more about the originator than the recipient, that's for sure.
"When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True Story."- Barney Stinson
 
Klaus
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:48 pm

Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 6):
It can be pretty frustrating to see how many posters' opinions/knowledge of Americans seem to be informed almost exclusively by Family Guy or South Park. Perhaps it's some sort of divine retribution for those Americans who harbor ignorant stereotypes about the rest of the world, but that brings the concept of stereotyping to a whole new level of irony.

Yeah, well, there is as much the phenomenon of some americans carrying bizarre beliefs from their sheltered isolation from the rest of the world and being utterly shocked when confronted with the real world outside the US borders as there are some non-americans holding similarly narrow and unrealistic prejudices against the USA and their inhabitants.

Of course there are some americans so bitter about the perceived loss of american supremacy in aviation that they seem completely unable to live with the fact that Airbus and other manufacturers even exist as there are some non-americans identifying so extremely with their own domestic manufacturers that they feel compelled to badmouth anything Boeing.

The operative word being "some".

And that's the point. A.net lives far more by the civilized members who are actually interested in aviation and in exchanging views and ideas than by the flamebaiters, trolls and perpetually offended drama queens. And they exist on pretty much any "side", largely irrespective of how exactly you slice or dice the a.net crowd.

Nationalities don't really determine who we are and especially not whether we're capable and willing to have a civilized and preferably even amiable discussion about interesting stuff of any kind.

There are plenty of people around who can hold some perspective, who actually know their stuff and even one or two with a rudimentary sense of humour. It's worth the effort looking for those and letting most of the shrillness just pass you by.

Have a nice time!   
 
skidmarks
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:55 pm

I thought that's why the Americans were here, so we inadequate and under-developed Europeans can take the mick!  

I don't think anyone has a monopoly on being bashed on here. It seems anti-American because there are so damn many of them (Knew King George should have had all the colonists neutered!)   

If I were you, I'd just ignore the "bashing" threads, unless you want to add your three-pennorth.

Anyway, I'm off to find a helpless Antipodean to have a go at. Bloody criminals!! 

Andy   
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
 
deltaownsall
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:28 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
Nationalities don't really determine who we are and especially not whether we're capable and willing to have a civilized and preferably even amiable discussion about interesting stuff of any kind.

First, thanks for re-hashing my original post.    Of course no single country has a monopoly on ignorance. The above point is one that I particularly agree with, which is why it is a problem that a number of posters (though, as I said, I think the aggregate here is usually better than the rest of the internet...which is probably why I've stuck around so long) seem to react first to flag and second, if at all, to content.
 
U2380
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:43 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 9):
Reminds me of a story where the only negativity an American had on a trip to Iran was from some Euros who let loose with a verbal attack with no provocation.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
These are coming from western Europeans that must be very ignorant and haven't traveled much or simply hang out with like-minded Europeans when they do travel
Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 10):
Western Europe's Palin-obsessed contingent is especially entertaining, if not extremely transparent.
Quoting Stabilator (Reply 12):
All in all the Palin-obsessed foreigners probably know very little about America, ergo I can't take their comments seriously.

I think these comments back up the point I was making earlier. As much as it may seem that way to you, there is a comparable amount of ‘Europe bashing' (typically by Americans ) as there is 'US bashing' (typically by Europeans).

I also think it is Amplified on this forum because of the two competing aircraft manufacturers

We all hold stereotypes, many stereotypes I hear frequently from Americans about Europe and the UK are based around the war, our teeth, have you ever met the Queen? e.t.c, e.t.c.

And I’m sure you feel the same way about stereotypes Europeans hold about America.

On the subject of Palin, my personal experience (in the UK) is that most people don’t care that much. Even Obama is a bit of a ‘so-so’ figure, many of us ‘supported’ him in the election, but he also made the comments about BP and sent back Churchill’s Bust. Meh, most people don’t care, we have issues in our own politics.

One thing I will bash you for is the way your language has butchered the word aeroplane. Disgusting.
    
 
zalemam
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:49 pm

Its not just the US that gets bashed, its anything with the slightest flaw, I've been visiting A.net for many years and have come to the conclusion that A.net has so many users that love to complain, moan and bitch at just about every little aspect of a problem.

I can understand the TSA bashing and sometimes horrible service on a US Carrier...but people just love to complain on the Internet, its a site where you can complain and say what you want, and no one else on this website would know who you are, which is sad. I bet if we had a real life forum no one would mention half the crap that is spewed on here.

I'm not saying most of the member on A.net bitch and moan, but a large number of users do. It's just so immature.

Peace
Patience is Virtue
 
bhill
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:50 pm

"People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?
Carpe Pices
 
deltaownsall
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:12 pm

Quoting U2380 (Reply 20):
think these comments back up the point I was making earlier. As much as it may seem that way to you, there is a comparable amount of ‘Europe bashing' (typically by Americans ) as there is 'US bashing' (typically by Europeans).

To be perfectly fair, all of the comments that you highlighted are referencing a specific subset of people, not everyone from said countries/regions. The former is not stereotyping, but the latter would be. So it's not Europe bashing, just "specific people in Europe that fit the description" bashing.  
Quoting U2380 (Reply 20):
We all hold stereotypes, many stereotypes I hear frequently from Americans about Europe and the UK are based around the war, our teeth, have you ever met the Queen? e.t.c, e.t.c.

And I’m sure you feel the same way about stereotypes Europeans hold about America.

         From a personal perspective, it's especially aggravating having to wade through b.s. like "North Korea isn't a desert', 'The Taliban and Al Qaeda are separate organizations,' 'The EU isn't a country like the U.S.,' 'The Cold War is over,' etc. etc. every single time I want to discuss global politics in a reasonably informed manner. These unprovoked "educational clarifications"/assumptions of ignorance tend to bring the debate to a standstill, and certainly seem to be targeted at one nationality in particular here. But, like I said, these are the gripes of an American, and I'm sure I miss a lot of the bias that flies around towards other nationalities.

Edit: No idea what's going on with the Italics explosion here, it was not intentional!


[Edited 2011-02-15 13:15:27]
 
mdavies06
Posts: 315
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:40 pm

Every country is bound to be stereotyped by things related to it which stands out. Imagine if you're an Iranian or Israeli (just two random example, by no means singling our Iran and Israel) you must feel that the view of foreigners are completely distorted by politics and religion.

Quoting CharlieNoble (Thread starter):
- American passengers are inconsiderate jackasses.

American passengers in non US flights at least are usually very easy to approach and chat to, more so than any nationality IMO.
 
GBLKD
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:07 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 9):
Then there is this forum where an Aussie who has never been here is constantly starting US bashing threads from things he reads in the Daily Mail. I've been tempted to start returning the favor.

Daily Mail readers should never be taken seriously, don't take offence.

I do think there are a few non Americans on here who are anti American though which is very wrong. I would never tar an entire country with the same brush if someone from that country posts something I don't agree with. I suppose to a great number of Americans I would be classed as a "leftist" or a "socialist" and I do reel from some posts I read from some of the more right wing Americans (mainly the we should invade country X,Y, or Z brigade) but a handful of people are not an entire nation. I bear that in mind and move on. Either I'm rising above it or I'm too apathetic to get into an argument.

The U.S. is a fascinating place which I will visit one day, I've met many Americans in England all of who I have found to be intelligent and friendly people.

As far as the whole A vs B debate, I'm first and foremost an aviation "geek" and both companies do what they do very very well. Granted as a Brit and a European I honestly have to say it feels good to see the U.S. domination of western civil aviation broken but I'm not the type to relish the delays to the 787, competition is healthy and I can't wait to see the 787, 747-8i, and the A350 in service. I'm simply like good aeroplanes wherever they're built.

I do despair when I see anyone on here stereotyping and bashing an entire foreign nation, wherever you go on this planet you'll meet people with a wide range of views. You will agree with some of those people, disagree with some, learn from some, and maybe teach some of them.

Peace,

Andy.
 
Charlienoble
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:29 pm

Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 21):
Edit: No idea what's going on with the Italics explosion here, it was not intentional!

You're just one of those damned italicators aren't you LOL

Definitely agree that painting a large group of people with the same brush is a big mistake. I think most of us live a few doors away from some kind of idiot or another and wouldn't want to be judged by what that person does or doesn't do.

I think the anonymity of the internet doesn't help. Reminds me of the old joke that everybody online drives a Corvette (Ok, maybe an Aston Martin or Lexus...let's be inclusive here), has a supermodel wife and a full head of hair. The truth is half the time you could be arguing the relative merits of the 737 and A320 with an 8 year old or somebody not wearing any pants.

My belated New Year's resolution is to "let it go" when I read ignorant crap on here and just enjoy the flight...

(CharlieNoble heads off to fly an Airbus on Flight Simulator while eating French Fries to commemorate this decision...)

Matt
"When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True Story."- Barney Stinson
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:33 pm

USA bashing is a drop in the ocean if compared to Islam bashing here, but do you see me complaining?
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
Springbok747
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:38 pm

Quoting CharlieNoble (Thread starter):
Airline service in the US is terrible

I've been to the US numerous times (I've been going almost every year...2 times in 2009), and just got back from a great holiday in Florida. And the above statement is true. Compared to even the low cost carries here, service on the major airlines (at least the domestic service, with the exception of AirTran..outstanding service every time I've travelled), is terrible. I mean..take Delta for example. I fly LAX-ATL quite regularly..and when you fly economy (coach)..there is no food except for soft drinks and cookies! And the menu is quite terrible..a couple of pieces of stale bread for $8+tax. Seriously? And the flights are always..invariably full. So I always end up having to check in my carry bag because of lack of space in the overhead bins. These bags have been badly mishandled a couple of times..I've had to claim damages on at least one occasion (they broke my laptop screen, even though I told them my computer is in the bag, they insisited I check it in).
These may be small things, but overall..add up to a bad experience. Imagine a first time visitor to the US..when they experience this..no wonder they say airline service in the US is bad!

But that said..I love everything else about the country..especially driving my uncle's Mustang on the interstate 

[Edited 2011-02-15 14:41:56]
אני תומך בישראל
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:55 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 9):
Then there is this forum where an Aussie who has never been here is constantly starting US bashing threads from things he reads in the Daily Mail.

Mham001,

Don't worry yourself about it, anyone who reads the "Daily Mail" is a bit light on, so to speak.   


Quoting GBLKD (Reply 23):
Daily Mail readers should never be taken seriously, don't take offense.

Exactly my thoughts !

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 25):
USA bashing is a drop in the ocean if compared to Islam bashing here, but do you see me complaining?

Remember that saying.... Whats good for the Goose is good for the Gander.....

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 26):
And the above statement is true.

Oh boy, be careful.

I don't find there to be anymore anti-US bashing, to that of many ME countries like Iran, Israel, UAE, etc

[Edited 2011-02-15 15:02:18]
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:00 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 9):
an Aussie who has never been here is constantly starting US bashing threads

Oh yeah, likely an internet troll. I won't even bother to respond to it.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
There are plenty of people around who can hold some perspective, who actually know their stuff and even one or two with a rudimentary sense of humour. It's worth the effort looking for those and letting most of the shrillness just pass you by.

Yes. These are the A.netters that really count!
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
deltaownsall
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:01 pm

Quoting cerretaman (Reply 27):

Lmao, that is epic. Another classic: http://macromeme.com/cat/america-moon-comic.jpg

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 26):
These may be small things, but overall..add up to a bad experience. Imagine a first time visitor to the US..when they experience this..no wonder they say airline service in the US is bad!

Agreed...every time I go through immigration at JFK (assuming I'm in one of the hellholes that Air France/DL pax are routed through...apparently there is a nice int'l terminal somewhere around there) or LAX I feel a bit ashamed that this will be some foreigners' first experience in our country. Flying in the U.S. can be somewhat more akin to riding the Greyhound bus these days.

[Edited 2011-02-15 15:03:43]
 
BMI727
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:28 pm

Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 30):
Agreed...every time I go through immigration at JFK (assuming I'm in one of the hellholes that Air France/DL pax are routed through...apparently there is a nice int'l terminal somewhere around there)

I'm sure Air France likes it just fine. It makes CDG look good.

Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 30):
I feel a bit ashamed that this will be some foreigners' first experience in our country.

Nothing like getting off the plane and seeing the ICE officer sitting at the podium in the jetway with her head on the desk.

Quoting Stabilator (Reply 4):
There are certainly people on this site that 'strongly' dislike Americans. I won't reveal who I think they are.

PerHaps yOu need TO exPlaIn more to heLp flesh OuT your point.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Springbok747
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:53 am

Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 30):
Flying in the U.S. can be somewhat more akin to riding the Greyhound bus these days.


I think a Greyhound bus would be a far better experience. The security at US airports is getting ridiculous.

[Edited 2011-02-16 11:10:22 by srbmod]
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aloges
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:03 am

If a nation dominates the news, it's quite likely to dominate the bad news as well. The US has certainly done so for a while, particularly in the times when wars seemed like President's Choice crack. That's where many of the hard feelings come from.

You also do have a lot of very vocal weird people in the US. Palin, Beck and Olbermann - since it's always the loudest voices that get the most attention, theirs are heard from the longest distance. That's bad for the image of any nation, even though they're certainly not the mainstream.

Americans also seem to be pretty good and outspoken at ridiculing themselves. South Park, anyone?   Those stereotypes are so beautifully striking that they will inevitably stick - the difference is that unlike John Doe, Jean D'Eau doesn't live together with the people who prove the stereotypes wrong most of the time.

Finally, I do believe that the people who emigrated from Germany to the US took with them a very German trait: constant discontent. On the one hand, it makes you believe that what you're making is never good enough, so you end up making the best stuff possible, but on the other hand it makes you complain about things that other people would simply shrug off and accept as a fact of life. Which means that the complaining becomes international.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:41 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 28):
Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 25):
USA bashing is a drop in the ocean if compared to Islam bashing here, but do you see me complaining?

Remember that saying.... Whats good for the Goose is good for the Gander.....

Please can you explain, did not get it.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
Stabilator
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:10 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 33):
I think a Greyhound bus would be a far better experience. The security at US airports is getting ridiculous.

Have terrorists hijack 4 Qantas jets and ram them into prominent buildings, killing thousands...I guarantee your security would look similar. Ridiculous it is not.  
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 31):

PerHaps yOu need TO exPlaIn more to heLp flesh OuT your point.

Not sure why you capitalized some letters, but I won't name names.
So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:19 am

Many times what is anti-US attitudes here are to me legitimate criticism of our leadership, government and businesses policies as well our society beliefs. Sometimes that be effected by ignorance, sources of infomation, personal biases, nationality, travel experiences, faith beliefs or lack of same, There are times those attitudes go over the top and into offensive territory, violating this site's posting guidelines or with some suggesting deletion as a check on them.
 
Klaus
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:20 am

Quoting Stabilator (Reply 42):
Have terrorists hijack 4 Qantas jets and ram them into prominent buildings, killing thousands...I guarantee your security would look similar. Ridiculous it is not.
"Security theater" was one particularly insightful commentary (by an american, no less): Intended to lull the flying public into the impression that "something" was being done about their safety, without actually addressing the real threats in a meaningful way.

European airports and airlines have been dealing with terrorist threats since the 1960s (including casualties), and still (or because of it) the measures and attitudes are somewhat different over here.

Actual, real security against determined attacks is a difficult thing to achieve (if at all); And it does not really improve linearly with the level of harrassment of harmless passengers.
 
Superfly
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:52 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 9):
Reminds me of a story where the only negativity an American had on a trip to Iran was from some Euros who let loose with a verbal attack with no provocation.

I have a friend that loves to travel throughout the Middle-East and his experience was the same. The locals in Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia and Morrocco were very nice to him but it was British and French tourist that were constantly wanting to bring up politics and bash the US.

Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 10):
Wow, so much truth here, it's mind-boggling. Well done. Western Europe's Palin-obsessed contingent is especially entertaining, if not extremely transparent.

It's like they ignore that fact that Obama was elected by a majority of American voters.
I love to point out Europe's flaws when they try to start their ususal US-bashing. They're often shocked that I know more about Europe beyond Buckingham Palace and the Eiffel Tower.
When ever a British person brings up Sarah Palin, I bring up Nick Griffin.
When ever a French person brings up Sarah Palin, I bring up William LePen.
The sad thing is that many left-wing minded Americans will join in on the US-bashing circle jerks. They even apologize and are ashamed to be Americans and spew out crap like; "oh I'm not like most of the other Americans".
I never forget when an American backpacker said that the British National Party couldn't possibly be as bad as our Republicans.  Wow!
He thought he was so sophisticated and knew everything and wouldn't believe the fact that there are nationalist far right-wing racist that hold elected office in Europe. It's Europe's dirty little secret and let's not even get started on the violent nationalist in Eastern Europe.

[Edited 2011-02-16 11:22:07 by srbmod]
Bring back the Concorde
 
Ken777
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:58 am

Quoting CharlieNoble (Thread starter):
- Airports in the US are awful
- Airline service in the US is terrible
- Airplanes being flown by airlines in the US are shabby
- The T.S.A. are at best incompetent, and at worst deliberately malicious
- Boeing airplanes aren't as good as their Airbus equivalents (except for the 77W of course)
- American passengers are inconsiderate jackasses.

Airline service in the US is pretty cheap. That leads to lower service for the traveler.

That depends on if you get a newer plane or an older plane.

On our recent trip to Fiji and Australia I was impressed with TSA and the other Security operations I came into contact with. TSA got us through quickly and efficiently, including body scans (where I felt very sorry for the poor SOB having to look at MY image, even if for only a brief moment) and my taking an auto pap & meds through.

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 8):
Do some searches on what Brits and some Americans write about the French if you don't won't to feel so singled out.

But of course. Writing bad things about the French appears to be a national sport. But then the Aussies take care of th Brits (and Irish) while the Ugly Americans stick their ass in the air for everyone to take a shot.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 33):
I think a Greyhound bus would be a far better experience. The security at US airports is getting ridiculous.

I've taken Greyhound. I can assure you air travel is better, You might prefer to take a train in the Northeast if it's more convenient, but not a bus.

We went through security at SYD, PER and BNE on our recent trip there. Security in Australia, from what I saw, is on par with Security in the US. Even Fiji had solid, effective security. It's not a big deal anywhere I have been through as long as you know what not to do.
 
Springbok747
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:05 am

Quoting Stabilator (Reply 42):
Have terrorists hijack 4 Qantas jets and ram them into prominent buildings, killing thousands...I guarantee your security would look similar. Ridiculous it is not

Really? We are also targeted..thanks to our politicians acting like lapdogs to your politicians and going to war with countries we have no business to be in.

Airport security here works (and has been working effectively) for decades, without the security staff having to act like total jerks. So yeah, airport security in the US is ridiculous..especially when those morons can't distinguish between potential terrorists and diplomats:

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/in...-remove-turban-at-us-airport-72311

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40579937/ns/us_news-airliner_security/

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/12...lomats-singled-out-for-tsa-frisks/

 
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Quokka
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:09 am

The USA is a huge country in so many ways and it is inhabited by people from all walks of life. Like all countries it has its good points and its bad points. But discussing one point, issue, instance, policy does not make a person anti-US. Sure, there are some people who will only emphasize the negative points, but those are the ones who would do the same about their own country.

Most people can distinguish between a policy of the government and the nature of the people. To criticise the former is not to attack the latter. Given that since WWII the US has been the major superpower it is not surprising that US international policy is often criticised and much of that policy has often been raised within the US itself by US citizens. Are those citizens anti-US?

One of the things that stand out in many threads is that the most strident criticism often comes not from people with the flags of different countries but from those who display the US flag. That's not US-bashing. That's just people exercising their right to express opinions. Comments that are highly critical of US airlines, TSA, airport congestion typically are posted by US identified members, and why shouldn't they be. The beauty of a free country like the USA is that everyone is allowed to state their views. Whether people agree or disagree is up to them.
 
Lufthansa411
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:56 am

Quoting CharlieNoble (Thread starter):
I am just amazed by the number of threads I have read lately where the consensus seems to be:

- Airports in the US are awful
- Airline service in the US is terrible
- Airplanes being flown by airlines in the US are shabby
- The T.S.A. are at best incompetent, and at worst deliberately malicious

Saying this as an American in Germany, most of this I find to be true when painted with the same broad brush strokes that XYZ nationality is. Yes, most airports in the US are cookie cutter affairs that are all the same no matter what drab little city your in, or are horribly maintained, but then there are buildings like JFK T4 or the new terminal at MIA that buck the trend.

Most US airlines fall more in line with FR than SQ, but then there are some like VX and B6 that seem to escape overall criticism here, maybe because there are different expectations.

On the airplane front, there is a lot of old metal being flown in the US, and the pictures circulating online of Duct-Tape fixes do not help. Some airlines in the US are bucking the trend (that article about how UA was scrubbing the interiors of planes more often), but in my experience the cleanliness of European LCC's far outshines that of many legacy airlines.

And then we come to the TSA...

1. The echoes of security theatre are not far off the mark.
2. I have never been "harassed" by any airport security worker in any other country quite the same way as in the US. Sure, there have been cold airport security agents in some of the countries not known for being the most hospitable, but only in the US have I:

- Witnessed TSA employees FIGHTING with each other while on duty at the security checkpoint

- Heard TSA agents verbally abuse pax to their faces - including cursing at foreign pax that don't speak english

- Saw TSA yelling at airline crews for not following airport specific procedures

- Heard some rather "salty" conversations between TSA workers while pax and families were nearby. My favourite: "I spl%$ged in that b%&ch's eye and then she slapped my ass" said as I was collecting my things on the X-Ray belt with a family including two roughly 7 year old girls standing next to me.

Quoting aa61hvy (Reply 13):
The most common thing someone says to me while I travel is something regarding the government. I politely say I don't discuss politics and move on.

One of the key differences between most in Europe and the US. I find in Europe that discussing politics is much more common, even with complete strangers. Hell, even with people you know-semi well in situations that are deemed inappropriate in the US like dinner parties. I have no idea why this social taboo exists, but maybe one of the main reasons Europeans are mystified by US politics is because rarely is there someone in the US willing to talk with them about it, so they are left with what they here in the media.

Quoting aloges (Reply 35):
Finally, I do believe that the people who emigrated from Germany to the US took with them a very German trait: constant discontent. On the one hand, it makes you believe that what you're making is never good enough, so you end up making the best stuff possible, but on the other hand it makes you complain about things that other people would simply shrug off and accept as a fact of life. Which means that the complaining becomes international.

GUILTY!     

Matched with perfectionism and you have a winning combo   .

All kidding aside, your statement is especially true about problem solving. Going along with never being good enough, Germans are keen problem solvers, and so it still boggles my mind when you have people that do not want to fix things that are obviously hopelessly broken. Or accept things the way they are because they function, however badly. When a problem can't be fixed because of others, most German-Americans break out the sarcastic comments   .
Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood.
 
Superfly
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:12 am

Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 50):
there is a lot of old metal being flown in the US, and the pictures circulating online of Duct-Tape fixes do not help.


I'd rather be on a DC-9 over a BA A320 any day.
One would think that an aviation enthusiast site such as Airliners.net would appreciate classic jetliner still in revenue passenger service.

Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 50):
- Heard TSA agents verbally abuse pax to their faces - including cursing at foreign pax that don't speak english

- Saw TSA yelling at airline crews for not following airport specific procedures

- Heard some rather "salty" conversations between TSA workers while pax and......


Here's another pathetic TSA story.
At LAX, I saw a TSA agent yelling at the top of his lungs "What is this far?!?!?!" holding up a small tube of diaper rash ointment. It was a young couple with a little baby. It's so obvious what the diaper rash ointment is for.

Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 50):
I find in Europe that discussing politics is much more common, even with complete strangers. Hell, even with people you know-semi well in situations that are deemed inappropriate in the US like dinner parties.


If they're so culturally enlightened, they should respect that cultural norm of Americans.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Mudboy
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:35 am

What amazes me is how many people bash the US, but they either want to move to the US, or go to school there. Years ago, I worked a summer job at BASF chemical, which is a German company, and they would have German college students come over to the US and work. This one guy, the whole time he was there, I had to listen to everything that was wrong with the US, and my only question to him was, then why in the hell do you come here, if you hate it so much? He couldn't answer me!

I will say that any country that allows nudity on the beaches, is much more advanced than the US, but then again most of our women have expiration dates, and you wouldn't want to see them at the beach anyway! 
 
Klaus
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:48 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 51):
If they're so culturally enlightened, they should respect that cultural norm of Americans.
"Cultural enlightenment" – as you put it – doesn't show by timidly acquiescing to any and all sensitivities anyone might possibly have, but by reasonably and – as far as possible – graciously dealing with differences in culture and opinion.

This means on the one hand not intentionally pushing every red button you already know your counterpart to have, but it also means not petulantly insisting on everybody else walking on eggshells in fear of coming near one your own red buttons.

Just exhibiting good social skills in communication with other kinds of people than your own. Staying (moderately) curious about each other and looking more for opportunities of understanding and having a good time, taking unusual behaviours in stride and with a certain amount of tolerance and a sense of humour.

I know that other people are not identical to myself and I think that's essentially a good thing.   

There are always certain limits I'd like others to respect, but I tend to not take everything personally. Most of the time it would be a misunderstanding anyway.

I would say this attitude is never more necessary than when communicating among different nationalities.
 
Superfly
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:01 am

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 52):
I worked a summer job at BASF chemical


SWEET! ! ! ! !   
Any chance you have some new old stock of Reference Metal IECIV blank cassette tape?
How about BASF 90 minute SoundLoop 8+ blank 8track cartridge?
BASF LP35LH 1800 ft. blank open reel tape?

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 52):
What amazes me is how many people bash the US, but they either want to move to the US, or go to school there. Years ago, I worked a summer job at BASF chemical, which is a German company, and they would have German college students come over to the US and work. This one guy, the whole time he was there, I had to listen to everything that was wrong with the US, and my only question to him was, then why in the hell do you come here, if you hate it so much? He couldn't answer me!


I met many exchange students while in college that did the same thing. It was only the European exchange students - mainly British, French & Dutch.
Never heard any complaints from students from South America and Asia.
I dated a lady from Liberia that always complained about the US but she did spend a few years in the UK prior to coming to the US. Not sure if she picked up that habit at home or passing through London.

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 52):
I will say that any country that allows nudity on the beaches, is much more advanced than the US,


  

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 52):
then again most of our women have expiration dates, and you wouldn't want to see them at the beach anyway!


Europe has their fair share of wildebeest too.
Bring back the Concorde
 
U2380
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:29 am



Quoting LXA333 (Reply 34):
1. British People shouldnt even talk with thoe yellow teeth and deformed faces.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScyRmiaEOUw
2. French men need to grow some balls and stop acting up like women. Ok I understand 2 world wars, but then they left us hanging in Vietnam. KEEP WAVING THOSE WHITE FLAGS.
3. The Italians have to stop eating way too much pasta and being broke all the time after women, in america its f**k bi***es, get money. I like the italian leather though, I will have to admit. Just tell mario to stop hopping on mushrooms all the time.
4. The spaniards need to just do something besides sleep all the time, i understand you like to relax, but in between work seriously you lazy bums. Oh yeah and fix that economy.

I have way too much to say, but you get it.
Quoting LXA333 (Reply 32):
Who the hell are Europeans to talk crap about the United States with their lagging economies, b***** we saved you two times from destruction and total dictatorships. The only europeans that I basically never hear talking BS are Germans, big ups to Germans. MAD RESPECT.

All American are Loud, Obnoxious, Uneducated, Obese, Culturally insensitive, Ignorant...
Cultural Stereotypes. All good fun. No?

http://home.arcor.de/xelnaga/america-sees-world.jpg Big grin

[Edited 2011-02-16 00:35:51]
 
Superfly
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:48 am

Quoting U2380 (Reply 56):
All American are Loud, Obnoxious, Uneducated, Obese, Culturally insensitive, Ignorant...
Cultural Stereotypes. All good fun. No?


At least we have straight teeth.   
Bring back the Concorde
 
AR385
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:24 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 25):
USA bashing is a drop in the ocean if compared to Islam bashing here, but do you see me complaining?

You should see what is written about Mexico. That is probably one of the most bashed countries in this forum. But once I noticed it´s always the same members who say the same things over and over and over. I just ignore it. I don´t even participate on those threads anymore, unless something that merits deletion is written.


Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 50):
One of the key differences between most in Europe and the US. I find in Europe that discussing politics is much more common, even with complete strangers.

That maybe but when I meet someone in whichever circumstance and I´ll narrow those to the usual two, leisure and business, I never discuss:

1) Politics
2) Religion
3) Football

ONCE and IF the ice is broken, then I may feel more conducive to cnversations on those subjects but I usually stray well away.

Now about those threads bashing the TSA, I can´t recall seeing one not started by an American. About Boeing planes being worst than Airbus, You will find the same number of threads saying the oppossite. I recall very few threads about "American passengers being inconsiderae jackasses"

I see from y uor profile that you have less than a year in a.net. I´ve been here for 7 years an 4 months. I suggest you give it time, and you will see that the richness of this site on many things , plus the things you learn, technical and moral, far outweigh the crap you seem to be focusing on. A year is not enough to get the whole A.net feel. This is a very particular community.

And remember, if you see or read something that really bothers, you, there´s always the team of moderators you can contact. I know for a fact they are open, helpful, hard-working and will listen.

Regards and keep enjoying the site.

[Edited 2011-02-16 11:11:47 by srbmod]
 
Superfly
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RE: Anti-US Attitude On A.net?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:34 am

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 59):
just that it is a false diagnosis that most of those critiquing the US are jealous of it and that this jealousy is based in some utopian image Europeans have of the US. You seem to misunderstand.


I understand very well.
If they visited and expressed such attitudes about China, Japan, Thailand, Indonesia, Mexico, Venezuala, Peru and other countries in Asia and Latin America, they'd be ran out of the country on a rail and never allowed back.
If they visited and expressed such attitudes in the Middle-East, they'd be beheaded or tourtured in prison for a long time.
That leaves the US as an easy punching bag.


As I already expressed in reply #46, it's not all bad and I know some extremely brilliant Euros and Americans that I do business with and none of this fuss ever comes up. The only Euros that I encounter that like to do this I don't have much respect for anyway as I am sophisticated to know that they are not the best representatives of their country. It's usually the drunken backpacker and the greenpeace 'save the world' types that act up like this. They are very easy to avoid.
Quoting AR385 (Reply 60):
3) Football

Now THAT is something I had to learn the hard way. 

[Edited 2011-02-16 11:23:21 by srbmod]
Bring back the Concorde

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