Kiwirob
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Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:48 pm

Quote:
Texas is preparing to give college students and professors the right to carry guns on campus, adding momentum to a national campaign to open this part of society to firearms.

More than half of the members of the Texas House are co-authors of a measure directing universities to allow concealed handguns. The Senate passed a similar bill in 2009 and is expected to do so again.

Republican Gov. Rick Perry, who sometimes packs a pistol when he jogs, says he supports the idea.

Texas is one of about a dozen states considering the idea and has become a prime battleground because of its gun culture and size.

It would become the second state, following Utah, to pass such a broad-based law. Colorado gives colleges the option, and several allow handguns.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ticle.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10707751


Why, if you ask me this is just going to lead to more Columbine style massacres, think about it a kid gets pissed at his grades pull his .45 from his backpack and ices his professor then goes postal on the rest of the class.
 
dl021
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:52 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Thread starter):
Why, if you ask me this is just going to lead to more Columbine style massacres, think about it a kid gets pissed at his grades pull his .45 from his backpack and ices his professor then goes postal on the rest of the class.

Are you certain "kids" will be allowed to bring guns to school?

That one who is going to commit murder was already bringing the gun to class. This allows the students of legal age and with the appropriate carry permit to bring their firearm with them to school.

One more things. There are tens of thousands of US military veterans in schools throughout the US who would object to being referred to as a "kid" and treated as though the were incapable of safely handing firearms in high pressure situations.
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:08 pm

I'm not opposed to this but I do have to wonder that if another shootout were to happen, how would law enforcement distinguish the "good" students trying to shoot up the "bad" student/s in the midst of a firefight?
 
us330
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:22 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Thread starter):
Why, if you ask me this is just going to lead to more Columbine style massacres, think about it a kid gets pissed at his grades pull his .45 from his backpack and ices his professor then goes postal on the rest of the class

I'm more worried about what is more likely to occur: the increased likelihood of random injuries, and accidental deaths from gun misfirings and accidents. And then there's what happens when you throw alcohol in the mix....the possibility of some wasted kids screwing around with their gun and killing/hurting someone accidentally is far more likely than a columbine style massacre. We have enough of a problem with college kids drinking and driving--we don't need to throw in lethal weapons as well.
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:29 pm

Quoting dl021 (Reply 1):

Are you certain "kids" will be allowed to bring guns to school?

That one who is going to commit murder was already bringing the gun to class. This allows the students of legal age and with the appropriate carry permit to bring their firearm with them to school.

I agree. I'm not legally supposed to carry a weapon to my classes right now, however, I can easily bring a handgun to class because no one checks and no one would know unless I sat it on the desk. There is no security or no metal detectors etc. So really, the kid who legally carries a firearm to class is a lot safer than you think. It's the ones carrying guns to class illegally that you worry about.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 2):
I'm not opposed to this but I do have to wonder that if another shootout were to happen, how would law enforcement distinguish the "good" students trying to shoot up the "bad" student/s in the midst of a firefight?

Every argument has it's pros and cons, and yours is a perfect con. This situation that you highlight is a key reason why most Colleges and Universities don't allow firearms to be worn/carried on campus, and it makes perfect sense. If I had my pistol legally and some deranged lunatic started shooting at people randomly, i'd definitely fire back. But when the cops are called, how will they be able to tell the difference?

The good thing though is that I think even though they might pass the legislation in Texas, it's still up to the individual Universities on whether or not they want to allow firearms on their campus, and i'm thinking the overwhelming majority will be saying NO. So in the end I don't really see it as that big of a deal. However, there should be a ton of lawsuits from students who want to carry firearms on campus ( good time to be a lawyer, maybe I should go to law school).
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
PPVRA
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:45 pm

I am all for gun rights, but for the same reasons many private establishments ban guns on their premises, the same should be true of students at campuses. Teachers and other staff, ok, but not students. The school administration needs to regulate the presence of guns in their campus and having thousands of students carrying guns (and I know the majority will not) is impossible to manage.

In the confines of their own homes, it's up to the students. In the confines of other's, they need to follow house rules. Colorado's stance should be followed: give colleges the option to allow something like this, but let them make decisions for themselves.

No one-size fits all.
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Mir
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:49 pm

Quoting us330 (Reply 3):

These are my concerns as well - I'm really not that worried about someone suddenly deciding to go on a rampage because they have a gun in their backpack. I've seen a lot of people in college who I wouldn't trust to handle a firearm responsibly. Likewise, I've seen a lot more people who I would trust, but since it's difficult for the law to discriminate between the two, I'm inclined to err on the cautious side.

-Mir
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D L X
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:54 pm

If I were a student in a Texas school, I would transfer out of the state.

This crazed notion that "one more gun" would end the gun violence from a nutcase or other shooter was proven bunk when a man carrying a gun at the Tuscon rally nearly killed the people who had captured the actual gunman who shot Con. Giffords.

I don't want to be anywhere near untrained people with guns.
 
na
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:54 pm

Is this true or bad propaganda against trigger-happy Texas? Sometimes I wonder whats with the brains of the decisionmakers in some parts of the US.
 
engineergreg
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:57 pm

According to the article, it would be giving college and university students the right to carry, not kids in elementary school. That has been the case here in Colorado for years without a single incident. I will also point out that the Columbine shooting took place on an elementary school/high school campus where guns are prohibited.
 
co777er
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:59 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
If I were a student in a Texas school, I would transfer out of the state.

I'm a college student in Texas and will not be fleeing the state.

Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
I don't want to be anywhere near untrained people with guns.

Look up Texas CHL laws.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 4):
I agree. I'm not legally supposed to carry a weapon to my classes right now, however, I can easily bring a handgun to class because no one checks and no one would know unless I sat it on the desk. There is no security or no metal detectors etc. So really, the kid who legally carries a firearm to class is a lot safer than you think. It's the ones carrying guns to class illegally that you worry about.

Bingo.

Colton Tooley managed to run into the library with an AK-47 and blow his head off. Gun laws regarding carrying a firearm on the Capital Metro bus that he rode on to campus did a lot, as well as laws prohibiting the possession of a firearm on a campus.

[Edited 2011-02-21 13:00:26]
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:12 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
I don't want to be anywhere near untrained people with guns.

Ignorance is bliss, isn't it? Do you really think CCW holders are simply "untrained people with guns?" The untrained people are the ones who were already bringing guns to class, despite what the law may say.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:15 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Thread starter):
Why, if you ask me this is just going to lead to more Columbine style massacres, think about it a kid gets pissed at his grades pull his .45 from his backpack and ices his professor then goes postal on the rest of the class.

They are adults who can already legally own the firearms in question and carry them in public. This legislation simply expands "public" to include public universities. Much ado about nothing.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:16 pm

At the end of the day, if someone wants to commit a crime, or violent act on a school campus they will do so with or without it being illegal to posses a weapon.

All this law does is allow law abiding adults (remember we are talking about university here, not elementary school) to carry their fire arms just as they may potentially do at nearby restaurants, malls, parks, or other public areas.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ALTF4
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:19 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Thread starter):
think about it a kid gets pissed at his grades pull his .45 from his backpack and ices his professor then goes postal on the rest of the class.

Ok:

Think about it, a driver gets pissed at somebody cutting him off, pulls his .45 from his holster, and 'ices' the guy in front of him, then goes postal on the freeway.

Think about it, a shopper gets pissed at the manager, pulls his .45 from his pocket, and 'ices' the manager and then goes postal on the rest of the store.

Lets ban guns everywhere then!!1!!!eleven!!

Of course, under current law, this could happen anyway:

Think about it, a kid gets pissed at his grades, pulls out his .45 WHICH HE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BEGIN WITH, and 'ices' his professor and then goes postal on the rest of the class.

Can't ban guns... they're already banned in the classroom... whatchya gonna do now?

Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
If I were a student in a Texas school, I would transfer out of the state.

I'm sure they wouldn't mind all that much. Same goes for anybody else - unless its a mass exodus, I doubt they'll mind much.

The department I work for (part time as a student assistant) just purchased $10,000 in miscellanious junk and it was pure pocket change. Loosing a few students who pay ~$5,000 per semester for in-state tuition isn't a huge deal.

Just like all those people who were going to leave if Bush got elected to a second term, I doubt you'd follow through with your actions.

[Edited 2011-02-21 13:20:24]
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Thorben
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:26 pm

This is insane, to say the least.

More guns, more death. More death, less security for all. Face it. You're safer when no one has a gun than when everyone else has one, too.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
Springbok747
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:36 pm

Aren't people who have permits in Texas over 21 and passed a firearm course? Nothing in this article says these two requirements have or will be changed. Why should anyone in college who meet these two requirements be denied their constitutional right?

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/chl-16.pdf

Quoting Thorben (Reply 15):
You're safer when no one has a gun than when everyone else has one, too.

Tell that to your neighbours (Switzerland). How come almost everyone there has automatic weapons at home..but we never hear of anything happening? By your logic..there should be massacres happening everyday in Switzerland right...?  

Its not the gun..its the idiot who is pulling the trigger that's the problem.
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LAXintl
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:39 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 15):
More guns, more death. More death, less security for all. Face it. You're safer when no one has a gun than when everyone else has one, too.

Considering the criminal element will always have guns, I'd much rather know my fellow citizens can be well armed and serve as a deterrent, or respond to any acts.

Would you rob, or create a problem at this coffee shop here in Los Angeles, if you had people standing around like this?

From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
na
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:46 pm

No guns, no shooting I would say.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
Would you rob, or create a problem at this coffee shop here in Los Angeles, if you had people standing around like this?

Not so much, but I would drink my coffee elsewhere. This sight is frightening in any place but one that is mad anyway.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:47 pm

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 16):
Its not the gun..its the idiot who is pulling the trigger that's the problem.



So you're saying there are a lot more idiots in America than Switzerland?   
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Arrow
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:47 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
Would you rob, or create a problem at this coffee shop here in Los Angeles, if you had people standing around like this?

If I saw someone standing around a coffee shop like that, I'd get the hell outta Dodge as fast as my feet could carry me, and find a coffee shop where they don't let guys stand around like that. Some guy walks in to rob the place, and everybody gets caught in the crossfire as the good guys in the white hats try to take out the bad guy in the black hat. I thought John Wayne died several years ago.

No thanks.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
na
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:57 pm

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 16):
Its not the gun..its the idiot who is pulling the trigger that's the problem.

Like Aids? Its not the virus, its the one who "pulls the trigger"?

Sorry, but your wellknown lobbyist quote is like saying after a nuclear war it wasnt the bomb, it was that idiot at the red button.

Only if there is a gun it will be used. If there is no gun...
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:59 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
I don't want to be anywhere near untrained people with guns.

The vast majority of gun owners have some sort of training, especially if they have a concealed weapons permit.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 20):
Some guy walks in to rob the place,

Oh please, do you honestly, seriously think a thief is stupid enough to want to rob a random coffee shop with a man armed with a clearly visible AR-15 rifle slung in his back?   

Quoting na (Reply 21):
it was that idiot at the red button.

Atomic bombs sure just don't spontaneously explode on their own  cheeky 

[Edited 2011-02-21 14:03:40]
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:03 pm

Quoting na (Reply 18):
Not so much, but I would drink my coffee elsewhere. This sight is frightening in any place but one that is mad anyway.
Quoting Arrow (Reply 20):
If I saw someone standing around a coffee shop like that, I'd get the hell outta Dodge as fast as my feet could carry me, and find a coffee shop where they don't let guys stand around like that.

You guys better find another state or county.

Open carry laws are pretty standard, and then you have people that can carry concealed weapons also. So I don't think you'll every quite find a public place that is guaranteed gun free. And then even if you did, its likely the guy intent on robbing you or your home is still armed anyways.

Having guns in society does not bother me. What bothers me much are half-assed laws (think Chicago) that restrict lawful citizens from arming themselves to protect their homes and families while criminals have carte blanche knowing they are unlikely to ever come up against a person that can fight back with a weapon.

Anyhow - what is that saying? An armed society is a polite society.
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GST
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:07 pm

Quoting dl021 (Reply 1):

That one who is going to commit murder was already bringing the gun to class. This allows the students of legal age and with the appropriate carry permit to bring their firearm with them to school.

It is a lot easier to start shooting in moment of madness than it is to go home, get your gun, and return (with time to think rationally between). Having more people carrying weapons legally is only going to increase the number there, and therefore the chances of someone flipping out.

Quoting dl021 (Reply 1):

One more things. There are tens of thousands of US military veterans in schools throughout the US who would object to being referred to as a "kid" and treated as though the were incapable of safely handing firearms in high pressure situations.

That is true, and they are indeed well trained in the use of weapons, but the snag is that the law applies to anyone, so it is not just limiting it to those extensively trained in the use of the weapon.

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 14):

Can't ban guns... they're already banned in the classroom... whatchya gonna do now?

Isn't the point of this that they won't be banned in the college classroom any more? Besides, you aren't necessarily in the classroom when you get your grades.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 16):
Tell that to your neighbours (Switzerland). How come almost everyone there has automatic weapons at home..but we never hear of anything happening?

Was that deliberately topical? If not allow me to fill in that they recently had a referendum on gun control due to rising firearm homicides. Compared to the UK Switzerland has approximately the same number of homicides per capita, but 5 times as many involving firearms (link below). They are not high on the chart, but equally not low either. I would gamble that the reason the number of firearm related crime is comparatively low is that the guns they have are pretty much all owned by people bestowed with military standard weapons training, a case pretty much unique in the world.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvinco.html
Not yesterday's data but not ancient either.

EDIT:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):

Would you rob, or create a problem at this coffee shop here in Los Angeles, if you had people standing around like this?

Yes, if desperate enough (through drugs etc). All that guy does is make himself target number one, the thief has the element of surprise after all.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 22):

The vast majority of gun owners have some sort of training, especially if they have a concealed weapons permit.

Yes, but not necessarily military training. It is one thing to competently handle a weapon in stress free situations, it is a different thing to do so with discipline in high stress situations.

[Edited 2011-02-21 14:13:44]

[Edited 2011-02-21 14:22:36]
 
Arrow
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:25 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):
Open carry laws are pretty standard, and then you have people that can carry concealed weapons also. So I don't think you'll every quite find a public place that is guaranteed gun free.

Bottom line -- it's your country and you can do whatever you like. If pistol-packing Starbucks customers turn you on, more power to you. But as a visitor to the US, the first time I walk into an establishment where ANY customer (except a cop) is carrying a gun, I'm outta there. And I'll be happy to tell the proprietor why -- not that my opinions are likely to carry any weight, but I've got to do something for sanity's sake.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 22):
Oh please, do you honestly, seriously think a thief is stupid enough to want to rob a random coffee shop with a man armed with a clearly visible AR-15 rifle slung in his back?

Oh, please, do you honestly think all petty thieves are just sensitive. misunderstood, highly intelligent misfits who would recoil at the sight of another guy with a gun?    You'll forgive me, I hope, if I don't hang around long enough to find out.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:29 pm

If any states is/was to allow this, Texas is the one.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
na
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:40 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):
You guys better find another state or county.

How sad you have to say that of your own country. Sounds like surrender.

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 26):
If any states is/was to allow this, Texas is the one.

Isnt Texas also the place that executes more of its citizens than any other place on the planet? One of the strangest places in the western world for sure. Trigger-happy Bush-land Texas. Never been there, wont plan to go there for sure under those uncivilized conditions. That doesnt mean I despise the US at all I want to add, I plan to visit NYC again later this year.

Not gun, no bloody bullet. Easy as that.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:59 pm

Quoting Arrow (Reply 25):
Bottom line -- it's your country and you can do whatever you like. If pistol-packing Starbucks customers turn you on, more power to you. But as a visitor to the US, the first time I walk into an establishment where ANY customer (except a cop) is carrying a gun, I'm outta there. And I'll be happy to tell the proprietor why -- not that my opinions are likely to carry any weight, but I've got to do something for sanity's sake.

Indeed you are free to patronize the establishments of your choosing. However many others do enjoy exercising their rights, and are not squeamish or worried about sanity in varioety

http://www.southbayopencarry.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/DSC05367.jpg
Quoting na (Reply 27):
How sad you have to say that of your own country. Sounds like surrender.

No not really. I'm of European background and quite proud of most things in this country, including the basic freedoms to be armed if one desires.

If America or Texas is not for you, you certainly do not need to visit. I have no desire to visit some nations either for various reasons and wont based on those principles, but I wont go as far as calling others "uncivilized", especially the US a nation of laws.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
na
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:11 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
but I wont go as far as calling others "uncivilized", especially the US a nation of laws.

I didnt. I only called a certain part of Texas law uncivilized, and I will repeat it here. Thankfully the US is is very diverse, and there a less gun-mad places to go to and that I´m happy to go to.

Btw., your photos arent exactly convincing people to visit the US of A. Guns in bars, thats a sign of imminent unsecurity, although those people might think the opposite.
 
airtran737
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:11 pm

I love how wimpy people are about guns. If you are hanging out with me, you can be rest assured that I have my H&K or my Sig Sauer with me. The Department of Defense trusts me, so I figure that as a law abiding citizen I have every right to protect myself and use lethal force if my life is threatened. The Euros and libs are so anti gun, but I think they fear what they do not know. Like many have pointed out, it is not the guy like me who you have to worry about having a gun, it is the criminal idiot who has no respect for the laws of this nation. I am not the one who is going to commit a violent crime, but you can be damn sure that if I am in a position to stop one then you will hear the sound of my casings hit the floor.
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Thorben
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:20 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
Considering the criminal element will always have guns, I'd much rather know my fellow citizens can be well armed and serve as a deterrent, or respond to any acts.

The criminal element isn't always having guns. In the US there are certainly way more criminals with guns than in other countries.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
Would you rob, or create a problem at this coffee shop here in Los Angeles, if you had people standing around like this?

I wouldn't want to live in a country where "creating a problem" can get you shot.

If I wanted to rob that shop, I'd buy a gun (seems to be no problem there), walk behind that guy, shoot him in the back of the head from close range, shoot every one else that has a gun visible or might have one, then I'd walk to the cash register, get a transaction into my plastic bag done, shoot some more people, and leave. Yeah America, that's how safe you are.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 16):

Tell that to your neighbours (Switzerland). How come almost everyone there has automatic weapons at home..but we never hear of anything happening? By your logic..there should be massacres happening everyday in Switzerland right...?

Switzerland has different gun laws and different traditions. The guns need to be stored securely in homes, with the breech block taken out of it. The guns of the soldiers are there to defend the country, not to solve the "problem" at the coffee shop. The military certainly has ways to keep the disturbed out of it.

Switzerland has the highest rate of suicide through firearm in Europe, btw.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 16):
Its not the gun..its the idiot who is pulling the trigger that's the problem.

Yeah, but if the idiot has to use a shoe-string (to kill people) the problem becomes a lot smaller.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):

  
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
D L X
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:21 pm

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 11):
Do you really think CCW holders are simply "untrained people with guns?"

No, but I do know that there are many people who are untrained gun owners since there is no law preventing them from having one. The NRA makes sure of it.

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 14):
I'm sure they wouldn't mind all that much.

Oh, I bet they would. I was a pretty good student, and I give to my school's alumni fund.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 22):
The vast majority of gun owners have some sort of training, especially if they have a concealed weapons permit.

I'm not worried about the vast majority of gun owners killing someone. I'm worried about the fringe, since their bullets are more likely to fly my way.



OH, and I love that NOT ONE OF YOU responded to my FACT that at the Tuscon shooting, a law-abiding, licensed gun owner nearly killed the people who had subdued the ACTUAL gunman because he didn't know who was who.

THat's the elephant in the room that you guys simply can't address, so you don't.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:26 pm

How about this one  

I'd welcome her on a university campus anytime.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
dxing
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:27 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 5):
Teachers and other staff, ok, but not students

That would be an excellent compromise.

Quoting D L X (Reply 7):

I don't want to be anywhere near untrained people with guns.

Agreed, I especially don't want to be near immature untrained people with guns.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 11):
Do you really think CCW holders are simply "untrained people with guns?"

Unfortunately many of them are just that. They have just enough knowledge to be dangerous to everyone around them.

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 26):
If any states is/was to allow this, Texas is the one.

Perhaps you didn't bother to read the OP:
It would become the second state, following Utah, to pass such a broad-based law. Colorado gives colleges the option, and several allow handguns.
which kind of throws a bucket of water on your post.


I guess what suprises me most is that this thread wasn't started by DocLighting.  
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:37 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 33):
How about this one

I'd welcome her on a university campus anytime.

Nice body, medium face, and probably dumb as a brick.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
futurepilot16
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:20 am

RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:57 pm

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 30):
I love how wimpy people are about guns. If you are hanging out with me, you can be rest assured that I have my H&K or my Sig Sauer with me.

Do you have an HK USP compact and the Sig 229? If you do, then we have lot in common because those are my two favorite pistols. I actually am saving up for HK right now so that when I get my CCW, I don't have to wait for it. the reviews for the Pistol are incredible.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
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OA412
Crew
Posts: 3859
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:02 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 6):
I've seen a lot of people in college who I wouldn't trust to handle a firearm responsibly. Likewise, I've seen a lot more people who I would trust, but since it's difficult for the law to discriminate between the two, I'm inclined to err on the cautious side.

  

Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
I don't want to be anywhere near untrained people with guns.

  

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 16):
Its not the gun..its the idiot who is pulling the trigger that's the problem.

In spite of the quote straight from the NRA handbook, it really is guns that kill people.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
Would you rob, or create a problem at this coffee shop here in Los Angeles, if you had people standing around like this?
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 22):
Oh please, do you honestly, seriously think a thief is stupid enough to want to rob a random coffee shop with a man armed with a clearly visible AR-15 rifle slung in his back?  

First, one has to ask themselves how small this guy's penis is if he has to carry that around with him. More importantly, I have quite a bit of experience in law enforcement, and I'll tell that this guy isn't going to deter anyone from robbing that place. He's just the first one the robber is going to take out.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 19):
So you're saying there are a lot more idiots in America than Switzerland?  

  

Quoting GST (Reply 24):
It is a lot easier to start shooting in moment of madness than it is to go home, get your gun, and return (with time to think rationally between). Having more people carrying weapons legally is only going to increase the number there, and therefore the chances of someone flipping out.

Quite true.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
Indeed you are free to patronize the establishments of your choosing. However many others do enjoy exercising their rights, and are not squeamish or worried about sanity in varioety

Seriously, there's nothing sane about that. I do not like guns, and don't own one, but I don't have an issue with others owning guns. If it's the law, it's the law. However, I've always been of the opinion that we should leave open carry to law enforcement, and that's it. Concealed carry shouldn't even be allowed given the number of untrained morons walking around with concealed weapons. You're putting yourself in a very dangerous situation when you carry a gun like that. First, someone may mistake you for law enforcement in the event of an emergency placing you in a precarious situation. Second, don't think that a criminal is going to think twice about wresting that gun from its holster.

Quoting D L X (Reply 32):
No, but I do know that there are many people who are untrained gun owners since there is no law preventing them from having one. The NRA makes sure of it.

Exactly. I know certain gun owners that shouldn't be anywhere near a gun.

Quoting D L X (Reply 32):
OH, and I love that NOT ONE OF YOU responded to my FACT that at the Tuscon shooting, a law-abiding, licensed gun owner nearly killed the people who had subdued the ACTUAL gunman because he didn't know who was who.

THat's the elephant in the room that you guys simply can't address, so you don't.

Of course not. It's a horrible little fact that gets in the way of gun lust.

Quoting dxing (Reply 34):
Unfortunately many of them are just that. They have just enough knowledge to be dangerous to everyone around them.

Wow, I never thought I'd agree with you, but your right on with this.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
thegreatRDU
Posts: 884
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:41 am

This is crazy....and it's scary as hell....it's getting too perverse...in this country...

The more guns their are the more murders.....
It's a fact....

Quoting Thorben (Reply 35):
Nice body, medium face, and probably dumb as a brick.

Still doable....
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LAXintl
Posts: 20499
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:07 am

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 38):
The more guns their are the more murders..... It's a fact....

Care to explain why gun related violence including murder for instance are are down for virtually 20-years running? (murder rate was 9.4 per 100,000 population in 1990, and in 2009 was down to 5.0 per 100,000) All the while gun ownership is estimated to have reached 350mil in the US, more than 1 for every man, woman and child in the country.

Source: FBI
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_01.html

Also interesting to note, States with some the strongest gun control laws have no better(and in some cases worse) per-capita gun violence statistics (eg DC, IL) versus some of the most gun liberal states like AZ, TX and UT.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_20.html

Additionally, accidental death rates from guns have also declines in the US, from almost 1.5 per 100,000 population in 1970 to 0.2 per 100,000 in 2005.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
thegreatRDU
Posts: 884
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:27 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 39):

Care to explain why gun related violence including murder for instance are are down for virtually 20-years running? (murder rate was 9.4 per 100,000 population in 1990, and in 2009 was down to 5.0 per 100,000) All the while gun ownership is estimated to have reached 350mil in the US, more than 1 for every man, woman and child in the country.

Now go and compare those numbers in proportion to countries with tougher gun laws....like the UK, Japan, Singapore, etc.
Why are you denying it? It's simply easier to kill with guns....
Oh and since you live near our Southern border you obviously where the guns fueling the narco organized-crime violence come from...   

How many more Gabriel Giffords, Columbines , and Virginia Techs is it gonna take?
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Springbok747
Posts: 4007
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:28 am

Quoting GST (Reply 24):
If not allow me to fill in that they recently had a referendum on gun control due to rising firearm homicides.

A referendum that was rejected..

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Home/Arc...-gun_initiative_.html?cid=29484206

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 33):

Yes please   

BTW..people saying less guns=less crimes/murders...we have pretty strict firearm laws in this country..yet shootings happen on a regular basis..especially between the bikie gangs..why...because they are ILLEGAL weapons. I've said it a million times before..any gun law will only affect law-abiding citizens.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...lodes/story-e6freuzi-1111113477674

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847
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PPVRA
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:40 am

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 40):
ow go and compare those numbers in proportion to countries with tougher gun laws....like the UK, Japan, Singapore, etc.
Why are you denying it? It's simply easier to kill with guns....
Oh and since you live near our Southern border you obviously where the guns fueling the narco organized-crime violence come from...   

"The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides,[5] with firearms used in 16,907 suicides in the United States during 2004."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

If the availability of guns makes it easier to murder, why does it not make it easier to kill yourself? The US has a lower suicide rate than places like Japan, France, Belgium, Sweden, NZ, Austria, Canada, Norway and a few others.

Also, consider drug policy. The US is quite "allergic" to illegal drugs and has very active programs to combat it, which only makes things worse because the drug gangs aren't going to just back out. They will stay and fight, and they have no problems if some people die because of it.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
thegreatRDU
Posts: 884
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:53 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 42):

If the availability of guns makes it easier to murder, why does it not make it easier to kill yourself? The US has a lower suicide rate than places like Japan, France, Belgium, Sweden, NZ, Austria, Canada, Norway and a few others.

There's plenty of ways to kill yourself....

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 41):

BTW..people saying less guns=less crimes/murders...we have pretty strict firearm laws in this country..yet shootings happen on a regular basis..especially between the bikie gangs..why...because they are ILLEGAL weapons. I've said it a million times before..any gun law will only affect law-abiding citizens.

That's simply due to your law enforcement agencies failing you...
Our Returning Champion
 
D L X
Posts: 11701
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:58 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 39):
Care to explain why gun related violence including murder for instance are are down for virtually 20-years running? (murder rate was 9.4 per 100,000 population in 1990, and in 2009 was down to 5.0 per 100,000) All the while gun ownership is estimated to have reached 350mil in the US, more than 1 for every man, woman and child in the country.

Wait, you think it's related to gun ownership?

I think it's related to air safety. I mean, nothing makes people want to blast someone like unsafe airlines. So, as airlines have gotten safer in the last 20 years, less gun crime. I mean, it's correlating, right?

/sarcasm

All jokes aside, this is the perfect example of a false argument based on correlation being confused for causation.




NOW, you weren't really going to say that more guns on campus would prevent gun crime on campus were you?
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8657
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:04 am

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 40):
Now go and compare those numbers in proportion to countries with tougher gun laws....like the UK, Japan, Singapore, etc

Why are countries with different cultures, different demographics, different socioeconomic factors, etc relevant to the U.S.? You stated in plain terms that more gun ownership leads to more murders. In the only data set that should matter - i.e. this country - the opposite has proven true.

And if you insist on looking at other countries, look at Switzerland. They have high gun ownership and even less gun crime than the U.S. Your generalization is just wrong.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 38):
This is crazy....and it's scary as hell....it's getting too perverse...in this country...
Quoting Thorben (Reply 15):
This is insane, to say the least.
Quoting OA412 (Reply 37):
Seriously, there's nothing sane about that.

Let's all review:

1. Texas has allowed adults to carry concealed handguns for 16 years. Today it is one of 48 states that allows concealed carry. So for the international crowd, if you have visited the U.S., chances are you were in a state that allows concealed carry. At any time did you feel it was "perverse," "scary as hell," or "crazy." It's called concealed carry for a reason. You would have no idea if someone was carrying around you.

2. Prior to this law, anyone with a CHL could already carry a weapon onto the campus of a public university. They were simply prohibited from carrying the weapon into a building, which made it effectively pointless to carry on an academic campus.

3. So the only thing that has changed with this law is the people who we have no problems with walking around a campus with a weapon can now take it in a building.

Holy crap, the sky is falling  
Quoting Arrow (Reply 25):
Bottom line -- it's your country and you can do whatever you like.

Thank you, sir.
 
Springbok747
Posts: 4007
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:13 am

RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:09 am

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 43):
That's simply due to your law enforcement agencies failing you...

Oh right..it has nothing to do with the fact that criminals have guns and law abiding citizens like me don't because of stricter/stupider gun laws, which makes it illegal to shoot back (because you see in this country criminals have more rights than honest citizens).  

BTW..do a search for South Africa farm murders..and see what happens when idiotic gun control laws take away weapons from law-abiding citizens...
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DfwRevolution
Posts: 8657
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:09 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 44):
All jokes aside, this is the perfect example of a false argument based on correlation being confused for causation.

I don't think LAXIntl is necessarily claiming that increased gun ownership is the reason for the decrease in crime.

It looks more like he is disproving thegreatRDU's claim that increased gun ownership causes more crime without providing a reason for the actual decrease in crime of his own.
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:12 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):

The problem for me with all those people is that they are open carrying. Despite the fact I concealed carry just about everywhere I go, I find open carry to be just about the stupidest thing one can do. It makes you the first target, as Thorben pointed out in his robbery scenario. When out in public, I do not want to draw attention to myself and the fact that I am carrying. To do otherwise, you have effectively eliminated any possible benefit of carrying in the first place.

Quoting D L X (Reply 32):
No, but I do know that there are many people who are untrained gun owners since there is no law preventing them from having one. The NRA makes sure of it.

I completely agree regulations need to be passed when it comes to gun ownership. However, the Texas law only applies to CCW holders, and as such, they actually have training.
Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
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RE: Texas To Allow Guns On Campus

Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:15 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 44):



NOW, you weren't really going to say that more guns on campus would prevent gun crime on campus were you?

I would. But only in the proper hands. I don't see a problem with a course that teaches, trains, tests, and then re-trains and re-tests at specific intervals, professors and other qualified employees of the University to carry weapons. I would have a problem with allowing just any student, even if of legal age, to carry a concealed weapon into class. But then I'm against CHL's and am a firm believer that if you are going to carry a weapon, you do so openly so I can make up my own mind if I want to be around you.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!

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